Episode 230

On this episode of the Removing Barriers podcast, we sit down with Benjamin Reimer, missionary to the west African country of Liberia. The percentage of people in the country with a testimony of genuine salvation is significantly less than the percentage that would claim they are Christians, but this is true of almost every nation that we’ve explored on this podcast series. Muslims make up about 12% of the population, and the remaining 3% are a mixture of various non-Abrahamic religions. God is at work in the country, however, building His church as He promised. Listen in as Brother Reimer shares his salvation testimony and the manner in which God called him to the mission field. You will also hear about the nature, challenges, and needs of the gospel work that has yet to be done in Liberia, and what we can do to help and support his work there.

[Benjamin]where we are right now on our furlough travels, I’ve just noticed that as I’m driving, I’m seeing self-storage unit after self-storage unit after self-storage unit. I’m seeing that, I’m thinking like, people have a lot of stuff. And I know that most of the people that have a lot of stuff, they’re unbelievers, and I can’t expect anything else of that. But the Bible tells us to lay up treasure in heaven. And when I see this, the opulence and the affluence that so many people live in, And then I think of what could be done on the mission field or what could be done. And I think not only with those resources, but I think a lot of those things are also tying people here to make them that they’re not even willing to be a laborer as well.

[Jay]

Thank you for tuning in to the Removing Barriers podcast. I’m Jay and I’m MCG. And we’re attempting to remove barriers so we can all have a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

This is episode 230 of the Removing Barriers podcast, and this is the 28th in the series of On the Mission Field. And in this episode, we’ll be going on the mission field with missionary Benjamin Reimer to Liberia. Benjamin, it is indeed a pleasure. Welcome to the Removing Barriers podcast.

[Benjamin]

Thank you very much. It’s my pleasure as well to be able to be a guest on the podcast and share a little bit about our life and family and ministry.

[Jay]

Hi, this is Jay. MCG and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to removingbarriers.net and subscribing to receive all things Removing Barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at removingbarriers.net/donate. Removing barriers, a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

All right, well, let’s jump right into it. Tell us about yourself, your family, your missionary field, whatever you feel comfortable sharing with the internet.

[Benjamin]

Sure. So I was born and raised in southern Manitoba, Canada, as was my wife. And we both grew up most of our childhood in the same church. and went to the same Bible college together and there that the Lord brought us together in eventually in marriage. And yeah, while we were courting each other, the Lord impressed on both of our hearts individually of the need to. serve him and especially the mission field of Liberia, West Africa. And so that was kind of our plan right from the beginning. And we got married. The same year we got married, we started deputation raising support to move to the field and moved there 10 years ago this year and been serving there. We moved there with two little children, and now we have eight. So it’s a busy life.

[MCG]

Oh, wow. Definitely.

[Jay]

That’s incredible. Now, you mentioned that you both grew up together. Did you grow up in a Christian home? Or was that something did you find salvation later on in life?

[Benjamin]

So yes and yes. We both grew up in Christian homes but both of us through different circumstances made professions of faith at a young age that later on we came to realize we’re not genuine professions of faith and so we came to the Lord later on in our late teens early 20s or whatever but we grew up in at a Christian environment, Christian homes. So really had no excuse for not getting saved earlier.

[Jay]

How did you come to realize that your profession was not genuine?

[Benjamin]

So the story goes, I’ll try to keep it brief, but basically when I was about eight years old, we started attending the church that we are sent out of now. And soon after that was asked to share my testimony with our Sunday school class. And I had no idea what my testimony was. And so I went home and I asked my parents about what my salvation testimony was, and they told me that I’d made a profession of faith a few years earlier. And so that’s what I shared with the class, and that’s what I kind of just kept as my testimony. And I kind of just kind of anytime anybody asked me, that was my testimony. even in my teenage years. And the problem was, of course, because I didn’t remember it, I had no recollection of it and no confidence in that. And I had no peace about it. And so outwardly, I was trying to prove that I was safe. So I was actually a fairly good kid, you know, as far as that goes. But inwardly, I was in turmoil. And I remember I actually even started Bible college in that condition. And I was sitting in class and I would look outside and And it’s winter and it’s cold and icy and I’m, there’s a chance I’d get into an accident on the way home from class or whatever. And I was scared to die. I was just scared to die because I literally did not know what would happen if I would, but I was too proud to admit it, too proud to talk to anybody about it. And so this went on for quite some time back and forth. I think deep down I knew I wasn’t saved, but I didn’t want to admit it. But I also didn’t want somebody to tell me that, oh yeah, you’re okay, you’re saved, whatever. So I was a little bit scared about that as well. And so finally, what kind of was the breaking point is. We had a guest speaker come to the church, great meeting, a powerful meeting. A number of people got saved, including our people who had made professions previously or whatever. One of my friends came to me and was so excited because one of our mutual friends had gotten saved and they’re just jumping up and down, basically. They’re so excited. Isn’t it exciting that this person is going to be in heaven with us? I’m outwardly forcing a smile, but inwardly I’m just like stone cold dead. I was not at all. And it was at that moment that I realized something is seriously wrong. If I can’t get excited about this, then there’s something wrong. And so I went back to the dormitory and I tossed and turned. I couldn’t sleep, couldn’t sleep. And finally ended up going to talk to an evangelist who was living in the dormitory at the time and explaining the situation. Finally, I was willing to swallow my pride. And he basically said, I can’t look in your heart and tell you whether you’re saved or whether you’re not, but God’s word can. And so he just took me to 1 John chapter 5 and read the entire chapter. And after he was done, he just said, well, based on what I’ve read, you know, where do you stand? I realized at that point that the last little barriers were gone and I was willing to accept Christ. So that’s the long and the short of it.

[MCG]

Amen. Amen. So how long would you say you have known the Lord or has the Lord known you?

[Benjamin]

That would be 16 years now.

[MCG]

Great. Amen. Amen.

[Benjamin]

Yeah.

[MCG]

All right. Well, let’s spin the globe and tell the folks where on the globe is Liberia.

[Benjamin]

So Liberia is a little hard to describe where it is, especially audio. It’s a little easier to do it. I like to use my hands when I do it. But basically, if you take the continent of Africa and you go all the way to the complete west, westernmost coast of Africa, and then drop down to the south point of the westernmost coast. Liberia is kind of in that rounded end of Africa there. So we border Ivory Coast, Guinea, Sierra Leone, so if anybody knows where any of those countries are, close to Ghana as well. So that would give you an area where we are. Right on the coast, it’s right on the ocean.

[MCG]

Cool.

[Jay]

Okay, the only thing I know about Liberia, besides the fact that it’s an African country, was that it was established by American colonists who were thinking of maybe sending the slaves back because they thought they’d have a better chance at success there. But that’s pretty much all I know about it. Can you tell us more about Liberia, what the capital city is, what the population is, the people groups, anything that you can share with us and with our audience that would help us to familiarize ourselves with the demographic situation? situation in Liberia.

[Benjamin]

Sure. So the capital city is Monrovia, and that is actually named after James Monroe, who was the president in the United States at the time that this whole colonization activity was happening. The current population is between five and six million in the country as a whole. In Monrovia, the capital city is between one and two million. Exact numbers are hard to get in countries like that that don’t have very set systems and things in place. And then the people group, that’s more difficult one There’s 16 different African tribes represented in Liberia. And then there is also a separate group, which is those freed slaves that did come that are in popular culture or whatever there in Liberia are termed Americo-Liberians. And so there’s basically 17 different people groups. There’s a lot of now intermarriage and interspersing. So it’s not as distinct as it used to be, but those are the different groups that are there.

[Jay]

Now, are these folks all getting along, or is it more of a contentious sort of situation?

[Benjamin]

Well, they had a civil war that lasted from 1990 until 2003, 2004, and that was a tribal war. So that’s one of the interesting things about the languages. So there’s over 20 different languages spoken in Liberia. Each tribe has at least one language that they speak as their native tongue. And then there’s another language called Liberian English or Coloquois. which is like, kind of like a pidgin English in a sense. And that’s almost like a unifying language because like in our church that I pastor in Liberia, we have people from six or seven different tribes represented in the church, but all the services, everything is done in this Coloquin in Liberian English. And so the tribal differences and stuff are not as noticeable or as highlighted because of that. There’s still some, you know, Acts chapter six type stuff that, you know, has to be work through with different, trying to avoid showing preference to any one group or whatever because they are distinct people groups. But yeah.

[MCG]

Is there such a thing as a national Liberian identity or is it just more of a tribal identity?

[Benjamin]

I mean, there is a Liberian identity, but it is secondary to the tribal identity for the most part. And so most people think in terms of their tribe, their language first, and then the national identity. The nation was forced upon them, right? They didn’t choose to become a nation. They were forced to become a nation because the United States purchased land and said, This is our land, and this is where we’re going to send people. And so that’s secondary to the tribal identification.

[MCG]

What about the religious breakdown? How is that broken down?

[Benjamin]

So in Liberia, to a Liberian, there’s only really two religions. There’s Christianity and Islam. And so about 15 or so percent of Liberians profess Islam, the remainder of them by default Christian. You know, that’s a very, very generous way of putting it. I don’t even know exactly what the you know, official evangelical statistics would be, but the personal experience of me, you know, working there, living there for the past 10 years is less, I believe less than 1% of the population is born again Christian in the country. But most would identify with some kind of Christian, Christian Isaac. A lot of it is so syncretism is very big in Liberia. So a lot of people have of their traditional African religion. And then they just kind of added Jesus to that. And so they call themselves Christians, but that’s not what their faith is in.

[MCG]

Right.

[Jay]

You mentioned earlier that when you met your wife, well, actually you grew up with your wife and you all went to the same Bible college and got married and you were already working toward heading to the mission field. So it looks like the Lord had burdened you with the spiritual state of Liberia even when you were in college. Is that the case? When did the Lord first put Liberia on your heart? actually, let’s go even before that. When did the Lord even call you to the field, and when did He put Liberia on your heart?

[Benjamin]

So for us, we were interested in a relationship with each other already, and our church had a missions conference, and I was already in Bible college. I believed that the Lord wanted me to serve Him. And I was praying, asking for direction. As often as you are in college, you’re not sure exactly what God has for you, and you wanna know. And that conference, I just remember the Lord over and over re-emphasizing just the need to be surrendered, that he wanted me to just be willing to do whatever it was that he wanted me to do. And really, at that point, I really expected that he would have me in some kind of church planting or something like that. In Canada, that’s kind of what I expected. And so I just told her, I’m willing to go anywhere, do anything, I’m yours. And just less than a month later, a group of men from our church went to Liberia. On a missions trip, they got invited by some other pastors and things. And I wasn’t a part of that group, but when they came back, our pastor asked them to take a Sunday evening service to give testimonies and share what they had seen and what they had done. And then one of the men preached from Matthew 9, verse 36 to 38, and all through their presentations and then continuing on into the preaching, the Lord just grabbed me and there was no way to escape it. Like I just, when it came to that part in Matthew 9 where it talks about, Pray therefore the Lord of the harvest, it was like, there wasn’t an audible voice. It was like the Holy Spirit said, Don’t bother praying for someone else to go. You’re the one I want to go. And I still, even though I just surrendered, less than a month earlier, I said, Lord, I’ll go anywhere. Liberia wasn’t really in my mind when I said that, and kind of second guessing whether I should have made that commitment. And so I wrestled with the Lord throughout that service. And every time that I would object to something or say, Lord, what about this or what about that? He, either through the preaching or through his spirit, just gave a rebuttal and just cleared any doubt. And so by the end of the service, I had no more excuses left. And so I told the Lord that I would go. And so that was all that I had. The Lord opened the door for me to be able to take a few short-term missions trips to Liberia after that. But yeah, I think the idea was that it would be for confirmation or whatever. But I knew, I just knew from that day that there was no doubt in my mind. which I think very helpful, at least for me, it’s been very helpful in staying on the field because there are times when things are difficult and you are tempted to throw in the towel, but knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt that God called you there and God wants you there makes it a lot easier to stay.

[MCG]

Yeah, man. Well, why don’t you tell us about some of those difficulties and also tell us what should folks keep in mind if they feel like they’re called to the country of Liberia?

[Benjamin]

So Liberia is one of the poorest countries in the world by capita, by GDP, by pretty much any measurement that you can do. And so the standard of living is considerably lower than what we’re used to, which is obviously not necessarily unique to Liberia, but it’s something that we had to deal with. Of course, there’s always cultural challenges, cultural changes. And the biggest thing, you know, is knowing that if God calls you, he’ll sustain you and he’ll give you the grace that you need to be able to go through whatever it is that he’s called you to do. And so, yeah, another thing I find, at least for me, that helps is to keep focused on what my purpose is, especially when you go to, and this is something that, again, it could be in any country, but when you go to a place and there’s so much that is broken and you want to fix everything I’m talking like politics or cultural things or whatever else and to realize what God called you there to do and to focus on that and not allow the other stuff to distract you or even get you frustrated like just that’s politics is the politics that is that whatever it is and God didn’t call me there to solve that problem and so I’m not going to let that problem bother me kind of thing and so just focus on the task at hand and what God has called you to do and let those that he wants deal with the other things deal with the other things if he wants them to deal with it.

[MCG]

Right.

[Jay]

Can you go more into the cultural challenges that you mentioned? I imagine a country with 16 different people groups and 20 different languages and the history that it has, there might be some cultural differences there. Could you describe how you handle those cultural differences serving in Liberia?

[Benjamin]

Yeah. Again, it has a lot to do with your own perspective. how you view others, how you view differences between people. I think one of the biggest challenges is to remember that one culture isn’t inherently superior to another culture just because it’s a culture. Whereas, and another part of that also is just realizing that I have a culture. We often look at other people and we look at, well, that’s their culture, that’s their culture, and we fail to realize that we ourselves have a culture too. And our culture isn’t inherently right. There may be things that are good about it and, you know, but they’re only good in so much as they are biblical, right? And so the biggest thing for me is to recognize that other people have different cultural things that may be strange to me and may be uncomfortable to me and may be hard for me to deal with, but they’re not necessarily wrong. And the second part to that is praying for wisdom to know the difference, right? Because there are so many things that you just automatically think, Okay, well, this is how we do it, because that’s how I grew up doing it. And then you go somewhere else and they do it differently. And your initial instinct is that’s wrong. And you may not even think of it necessarily on the point of being sinfully wrong, although that can be also implied. just it’s wrong because it’s not the way I do it or whatever and so I constantly have to go into these different situations and pray and ask the Lord Lord give me the wisdom to know what part of this is completely just cultural differences that I’m uncomfortable with and which are you know cultural things that are actually sinful, unbiblical, and that I have to, you know, deal with. I mean, it’s exhausting. It really is because every day is dealing with these kinds of things. Obviously, the longer you’re there, the more of those things you’ve worked out and you figured out. But what we take for granted when we live in a much more monoculture, is that we don’t make those kind of judgment calls every day, and we’re not having to try to decide between these things because that’s kind of been decided from our parents and our grandparents, and they’ve dealt with a lot of those things. Our churches, they’ve worked out some of those things. But when you go to a completely different culture and nobody’s kind of been able to go through the process of those things for you, you have to process them all yourself. Right.

[MCG]

But staying on the topic of culture, would you say the culture is more of Acts chapter 2, where they have some idea of who God is and what sin is? Or would it be a more Acts chapter 17, where they are praying, but it’s to an unknown God?

[Benjamin]

I would say it’s definitely more of an Acts chapter 2, where there is a foundation. that has been laid by previous generations of missionaries that have come and have given the gospel, have taught the Bible. And so I can definitely, when I’m dealing with people for salvation, I can definitely take for granted that they understand certain very basic biblical things. And so even being said, though, a lot of times, and this goes to kind of how we teach the Bible a lot of times, is It hasn’t been put into proper context or put into proper chronology or whatever. And so I end up using kind of the creation to Christ kind of model or whatever for at least the general framework a lot, not because they haven’t heard a lot of those things, but they don’t understand how they fit. And so being able to go and say, okay, well, this is where it started and this is why this happened and this is what this. you know, what this account or this historical figure, what the significance of that is, and being able to kind of put it in place. And then it helps them to grasp why we need to be saved and why a lamb needed to be shed and his buddy need to be shed and so on. So it is, I would say, more of an Acts chapter two, but there’s a lot of filling in the blanks that needs to happen as well.

[MCG]

Do you find that is needed more and more in the Western world, in US and Canada and Europe?

[Benjamin]

Yes, definitely. I would say probably even more so than in Liberia, because at this point, I think in most of the Western world, most people don’t even know those basic stories anymore.

[MCG]

Right.

[Benjamin]

And so, yeah, I think there’s great value, obviously, that isn’t necessarily needed in every culture, in every case, but I think that’s more and more, in my experience at least, needed to just start with in the beginning God, you know?

[Jay]

Yeah, and it’s interesting to realize that even in so-called developed nations that have Christianity, at their base that we need to go back to the basics. So what we understand about the scriptures, it’ll affect our doctrine, it’ll affect how we live, our testimony to the world. And my husband always says his country, if America has a cold, his country will sneeze. Am I saying it right? Like whatever.

[MCG]

When America sneezes.

[Jay]

When America sneezes, the island will catch a cold. In other words, whatever the US is doing, it’s going to trickle down and affect other countries. In fact, we talked to a missionary that said that in his country, country. They don’t even know the difference between the different so-called branches of Christianity. Like, America is Christianity to them. So whatever America is doing, that’s Christianity doing that thing. And so there are some things that the church is doing here that negatively, or maybe in some cases positively, affects his mission where he is. Do you find that to be the case in Liberia where the church over here is doing something and it negatively affects you? Or you could probably tell us what are some of the things that we’re doing here, the church in the West, if you would, what are some of the things that we’re doing that make your task of sharing the gospel in Liberia more difficult?

[Benjamin]

Yeah, I think so. One of the challenge or one of the benefits of long-term missions is that you have a missionary that goes somewhere and he invests his life in understanding a culture, understanding how people think, understanding where people are coming from. And I see that there is a lot of benefit to, or there can be a lot of benefit to, short-term missions trips as far as encouraging people to get involved in missions and stoking fires for missions and stuff. But one of the unintended negative consequences I think that comes from that is… You have people that come from one context where they have learned to share the gospel in a particular way. They’ve learned to engage people spiritually in a particular way. And it may be effective where they came from, but then they try to impose that and they mean well, they want to have an impact. They want for their missions trip to have fruit, right? And so they go in and they try to impose that view of evangelism or outreach or whatever. in that context, but they don’t understand that when they are using certain terminology or they are approaching from a certain way, that the people they’re talking to don’t understand it the way they understand it. And so they’re speaking two different languages, though they’re speaking the same language because, for example, shortly after I started pastoring in Liberia, I was talking to a man who wanted to be baptized. So I was asking, well, why do you want to be baptized? Like, what’s the reason for it? And he said, well, you want to be baptized because he wanted to be born again. And I like, okay, so you believe in baptismal regeneration? Like, is that where you’re, where you’re coming from? So I’m trying to ask more and come to find out. So most Liberians interpret John chapter three with Nicodemus. when he says he must be born again, and he says born of water and of the Spirit, that the water is talking about water baptism, and not for salvation, but that to the person I was talking to, and most Liberians, when they hear born again, they don’t think salvation, they think of a commitment to follow Christ that is evidenced by baptism. And so when I was talking to him, what I thought he was saying was that he wanted to be saved through his baptism, and really what he was just saying is, He wanted to follow the Lord and believers baptism. He was already saved, but he didn’t understand the meaning of born again the way I understood the meaning of born again. And so that’s just one example of where when you’re talking to somebody and they don’t understand the basis, what you understand, then you’re going to end up with a miscommunication. You’re going to end up giving people a false hope. because they nodded when you gave certain things, they agreed with what you said, you led them in a sinner’s prayer or whatever, and now you told them that they’re on their way to heaven. But then if somebody who knows the culture goes back and asks them some questions, which I do, you find out that they had no idea what they were saying or what they were doing. So that’s by far the biggest hindrance that comes is people that just don’t understand the culture, don’t understand. how Liberians think and the background of Liberians, and then try to do a spiritual work in a very short period of time.

[Jay]

What about some of the needs that you have, whether physical, spiritual, material, whatever? What are some of the needs that you have that if they were met, that would make your task of sharing the gospel in Liberia easier?

[Benjamin]

Honestly, laborers. There’s so many, like there’s tools and there’s different, you know… financial things like you could start radio stations or you could do different things like that. And I want to do and be a part of those things, but all those things require people. And at the end of the day, the biggest need I have, you could give me 10 people and I could keep them busy every day with outreach and with different areas of ministry and development. So, I mean, it just really is that basic. We need more people. Right.

[MCG]

You know, the Bible says the harvest indeed is plentiful, but the labourers are few, definitely. Like the missionaries mentioned labourers as one of the major needs. I want to go back a little bit to when you’re talking about the difficulties you face and some of the cultural aspects. Do you find it more difficult now when you come back to Canada and the West to adjust to Canadian life because you have been in Liberia for a decade now, or do you find it easier to come back to Canada and then more difficult to go back to Liberia.

[Benjamin]

So I definitely find it harder to come back to Canada and definitely find it easier to go back to Liberia. I mean, just yesterday, my wife and I were sitting on the couch and we were talking about, is there any way we can cut this furlough shorter so we can get back to Liberia sooner? So, I mean, there’s definitely things about Canada and the conveniences and the comforts and stuff that we enjoy. But at the same time, I also have to guard my heart against getting frustrated with the carnality and the, you know, the half-heartedness or whatever so many people seem to have. And the one thing I pointed out In one of the services that I was in recently was where we are right now on our furlough travels. I’ve just noticed that as I’m driving, I’m seeing self-storage unit after self-storage unit after self-storage unit. I’m seeing that. I’m thinking like, people have a lot of stuff. And I know that most of the people that have a lot of stuff, they’re unbelievers, and I can’t expect anything else of that. But the Bible tells us to lay up treasure in heaven. And when I see this, the opulence and the affluence that so many people live in, And then I think of what could be done on the mission field or what could be done. And I think not only with those resources, but I think a lot of those things are also tying people here to make them that they’re not even willing to be a laborer as well. You know, I think there’s two sides to that as well. So, yeah, we are our entire family. I mean, our oldest was two years old when we moved to Liberia. Our second oldest was six months. And the rest have lived basically their entire lives in Liberia, besides a couple of short visits to Canada. So all of us are ready to be back in Liberia, which is our home now.

[MCG]

Yeah. We interviewed a missionary, Matt Allen. He’s in Papua New Guinea. I had the pleasure of visiting his mom and dad who were there. He was on furlough when I went, but we interviewed him. I don’t remember what episode number it is, but when he first went to Papua New Guinea, he went into the tropical rainforest about 4,000 feet above sea level among the camera people where they still live in huts and stuff like that. His kids are in their 20s now, but he went when his kids were, basically babies just like yours. And he said that his kids, well, he is well, but his kids, the first time he brought them back to the US and they saw lights, fluorescence, light in the airport and water in the toilet and stuff like that, they were just blown away. And he went through a period of, I don’t want to say bitterness or I don’t want to use that word, but basically, let’s say a little bit of struggle of the affluence of the West compared to where you come from. I wonder, is your children going through any of that in terms of, men, when they come back to Canada or the US, they look and they see all these things. And not only the things, but the waste compared to maybe where they’re serving right now.

[Benjamin]

They’re doing fairly well. I mean, I’m going to be completely transparent about, like, we live in a capital city. So our living condition is considerably better than, you know, the majority of Liberians, especially in the interior and stuff. So, you know, we’re not living in a mud hut or whatever. We have a lot of, especially now, we have a lot more conveniences than we used to have and stuff. And so they’re more so just missing home. They’re just missing the stability. You know, one of the things about furlough, especially is, you You’re in a different church every weekend or several churches every weekend and you’re driving here, driving there, and they just miss the stability and their friends and the relationships that they’ve built there. I want to share a little anecdote to what you were saying about the changes. When we came back, after one year in Liberia, we had to come back to Canada for my wife to have our third child. She had complications with earlier pregnancies, so we didn’t want to risk that on the field. And in that first year we were in Liberia, we had no electricity besides generator-run electricity. So if we had power, it was because I went out and started the generator and ran it. And so we just got used to, if there’s going to be power, it’s going to be loud because there’s a generator running, right? So we got back to… Manitoba. We got in late, we went to bed, and the next morning, we’re waking up and the lights are all out in the house that we’re staying at, and it’s completely quiet, like whatever. And our oldest, she got up, and she’s like three, three and a half years old at the time, and maybe four. Anyway, and she goes to my wife and she’s like, Mommy, is daddy going to put the generator on so we can turn the lights on? And then we went over to the light switch and flipped it on and the light came on, and she’s just like, her eyes were big, like, How did this happen? I don’t hear any generator, but the power came on. So yeah, there’s some interesting things like that for sure.

[Jay]

I really love that story. And the fact that you all are just dying to get back shows a love for the country, a love for the people. It’s something that my husband talks about all the time. He says that he grew up in a country that missionaries go to. And it wasn’t always evident that the missionary saw the people with that kind of eagerness, that kind of love. There’s always like a separation almost. Sometimes you can see that. But the fact that you all are just itching to get back, that’s a really beautiful and wonderful thing.

[Benjamin]

Yeah, I mean, it didn’t start like that either. Like our first years, there were times where if you’d asked me the same questions, I would have been like, yeah, we’re itching to get back to Canada. And so God does that work over time and binds your hearts together with people and gives you a love for people.

[MCG]

All right. Well, you’re listening to the Removing Barriers podcast. We are sitting down with missionary Benjamin, and he and his wife and his children are in Liberia. We’ll be right back.

[Jay]

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[MCG]

All right, Benjamin, let’s go into a little bit of a fun section and find out some of your favorites. Let’s start with your favorite scripture verse.

[Benjamin]

My favorite scripture verse is 1 John chapter 3, verse 1. And there’s an interesting story behind kind of how that became my favorite scripture verse. That verse says, Behold, with manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us that we should be called the sons of God. Therefore, the world knoweth us not because it knew him not. Now, I knew that verse, knew that little round song that goes along with it, Behold, a manner of love, the Father bestowed upon us are given unto us. Anyway, known that basically my entire life, and the night that I was born again, the night that I was saved, I shared earlier. After I left the evangelist and went back to my dorm room, interestingly, the first thing I wanted to do was open my Bible and read, and I opened my Bible just, I mean, I wasn’t looking for anything and it opened to 1st John chapter 3. And I started reading in verse 1. And that verse that I had read and heard, I don’t know how many times, and never really meant anything to me, I read it now. And it was like, Whoa, the love that God’s shown to me that I could become the son of God. And so right from that moment, it became my favorite verse just because of how powerful it was in that moment after what had just happened. And God showed his love toward me. So, yeah, I love that verse.

[Jay]

Praise the Lord. What’s your favorite historical biblical account?

[Benjamin]

So my favorite historical biblical account, I think would have to be the story of Joseph. What I love about his story is that he went through all these things and we, looking back now, we can see, oh, it turned out okay. Just turn a couple pages in your Bible forward and you can see how it turned out, right? But this is a matter of years that he went through all these different things. He didn’t see what was happening and yet he stayed faithful day in and day out, week in, week out, year in, year, whatever. And so we want to see instant results. We want to see everything work out. If you watch movies or whatever, within two hours, everything’s been resolved and the rewards been given to whoever’s worthy or whatever, and to see if you actually think about it and think about how long he went through all that and stayed faithful. And yes, God worked it out in the end, but it wasn’t just like bad thing happened today and tomorrow it was resolved. It just reminds me to stay faithful and not get discouraged when you’re going through difficulty and, you know, trust the process, trust what God’s trying to do and One day, whether it’s here on this earth or in eternity, everything will be made right, everything will be okay. Amen.

[MCG]

I want to go back to your favorite verse, when he is a behold one man of love, the Father’s bestowed upon us. My brother and I in my church, we presently try to witness to a Muslim young man. And it’s just amazing to me that, and I could be wrong, but they don’t seem to grasp the love of God. And of course, we probably don’t grasp it neither. But when the Bible talk about Ephesians, the great love, And for God so loved the world. When you think about it and you think about the love of God, as a Christian, you should be amazed. Because firstly, one of the claims he made was that it was not just for Jesus to die on the cross for us because he didn’t do anything wrong. And I said to him, yeah, you’re right. He was not just. But the reason why he did it because he loved us. It’s just amazing if you just do even just a cursory study of just love in the Bible and love of God, we will be amazed. And I’m sure most Christians are. It’s just fresh in my mind just because of this Muslim young man I’m witnessing to 100% yeah all right well what is the most convicting scripture passage to you?

[Benjamin]

Presently and it’s good and bad that I’m on furlough and I’m preaching quite a bit on this it would be Luke 10 25 to 37 the which is the account of the Good Samaritan and when I was in Liberia I preached on it just on what it means to love your neighbor as yourself and then When I got back to Canada and was developing it more, especially in context of missions, there was a thought that kind of drove it deep, which was in Luke chapter nine, Jesus asks basically, What shall it profit a man if she shall gain the whole world and lose his own soul? It’s not the exact wording, but, and he’s emphasizing that the spiritual is more important than the physical. And so if you take that principle and you apply it to the Good Samaritan story, where the Good Samaritan story is very much talking about physical help or care or love shown to your neighbor, but if you take that and you turn it spiritual and instead of the person lying on the side of the road with no physical wounds, you’re talking about somebody who’s lost, somebody who’s been damaged and left for dead by the world. And our responsibility as believers to go to them and to care for them and to be willing to invest in their reconciliation with God, that’s a pretty powerful truth. And, you know, I preach that on Sunday and then I go out into the community or into the store or wherever else on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. And when I’m tempted to to hold my peace and not engage people in the gospel, that scripture keeps coming back. And what I preach to others on Sunday is getting preached back to me all throughout the week by the Spirit. So that’s, I would say, the most convicting scripture passage for me right now.

[MCG]

Oh, wow. Good insight there.

[Jay]

Yeah. Which of the scriptures are bringing you the most comfort right now? I imagine this question probably has a different answer depending on what stage or what you’re going through in life, but which of the scriptures would be the most comforting to you right now?

[Benjamin]

So in our first year in Liberia, we went through, I mean, it’s a ton of changes and ton of challenges and things like that. And I struggled with two very opposite responses to the challenges. One, I would feel sorry for myself. I would think about people, even other missionaries who were when I would consider easier countries or less challenging countries, especially, you know, economically or whatever. And I would become like envious of them and what they were dealing with. And then on the other hand, I would look at people who were in countries that were worse off than me, or even think about missionaries from the past who, didn’t have Skype and… and all these different ways of communicating and a lot of the conveniences that we have in missions today that, you know, nobody could have imagined a hundred years ago. And then I would feel like, oh, well, you know, I almost feel guilty that I have all the gadgets and all the conveniences, right, that I do have. And so as I was wrestling with that, the thing that the Lord used to really just kind of put that to rest, not that I’ve never struggled with it since, but was 2 Corinthians 12 verse 9, where Paul is complaining about his thorn in the flesh and God says, My grace is sufficient for you. And the Lord just taught me in that moment that those that went through very difficult things a hundred years ago as missionaries, God’s grace was sufficient for them. Those that are in maybe what we would consider easier fields of service, God’s grace is sufficient for them, whatever challenges. And so I don’t need to worry about my challenges or my difficulties or what things I’m going through or whether I have it better or worse than other people. I just have to rely on the fact that God’s given me the grace that I need for what I’m going through, and then I don’t need to worry about anything else. And so that’s been something that I just keep with me all the time whenever I’m tempted to either feel sorry for myself or feel guilty about some pleasure or blessing that I do have. and just know that God’s grace is sufficient for every need, no matter what it is.

[MCG]

Amen. Well, be prepared that you might have to sing this one, but what is your favorite hymn of the faith?

[Benjamin]

So if you remember what my favorite scripture verse is, you might have an idea of what my favorite hymn is, not beholden manner of love, but the love of God.

[MCG]

Amen.

[Benjamin]

So yeah, that song pretty much from that point has been my favorite song. And so I can sing it if you want, but maybe you don’t.

[MCG]

Maybe you can quote some of the lyrics.

[Benjamin]

The love of God is greater far than tongue or pen could ever tell. It goes beyond the highest star and reaches to the lowest hill.

[MCG]

Amen.

[Benjamin]

The guilty pair bow down with care. God gave his son to win. God’s erring child, he reconciled and pardoned from his sin.

[MCG]

Amen.

[Jay]

That is a great home.

[MCG]

Amen, the love of God.

[Jay]

Amen. Who is your favorite giant of the faith from the scriptures? And I don’t know if it’s going to be Joseph again, but maybe it’s gonna be someone different. It is, okay.

[Benjamin]

It is, no, it is also Joseph. I mean, I find it hard to pick favorites. So, I mean, there’s so many things, but again, kind of going back with the story or account, just that entire the character that he showed and even you look at the end when Jacob died and how his brothers were afraid that he was going to you know bring retribution and had such a forgiving and tender and recognize that God’s hand was in and all and I just think there’s so much we can learn from that.

[MCG]

What would you say are some of the biggest barriers to the people of Liberia from receiving the gospel?

[Benjamin]

So I usually illustrate it this way. Someone that doesn’t know they are drowning is not going to be willing to accept a life preserver. And I alluded to this earlier with talking with people coming that don’t understand the culture and don’t understand how they’re doing with people. And The biggest challenge that I have in evangelizing in Liberia is that everybody seems to know all the terminology. Everybody seems to have done all the things. And so when you talk to them, they think they’re okay. And then you ask, which is kind of one of my opening questions when I’m talking to somebody is, so if you were to stand before God today and he would ask you why he should allow you to enter heaven, what reason would you give him? And they’ll start listing off all the good works that they do, and they’ll start talking about their baptism, and they’ll start talking about obeying the Ten Commandments and stuff. It becomes very obvious that their faith isn’t in Christ. But then if you ask, have you ever accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior? Oh yeah, I did that, such and such a time. And so it’s something they don’t, again, I’ll give you an illustration to kind of help give clarity to what I’m saying. I met with a lady who was, again, wanting to become a member of the church and wanting to baptized to become a member of the church. And so I talked to her and I asked her for a testimony and she explained that there’d been like a crusade in her hometown and they had preached the gospel and said, if you wanted to accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior, you should come forward and they would deal with you. And so she had accepted Jesus Christ as a personal savior. And everything that she was saying sounded like really, really good. And I was just about to, you know, kind of clear her for being able to be baptized and added to the church membership. And the spirit just kind of, the Holy Spirit just kind of said, ask some more. And so I asked two more questions. I said, so why did you need to accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior? For what reason? And she just got this blank look on her face, like, I don’t know. And then I said, and what does it mean to accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior? And again, completely blank stare. I don’t know. And so I said, so why did you do it? They said, well, if you want to go to heaven, you need to accept Jesus Christ as your Savior. And I wanted to go to heaven. So she didn’t understand what it meant. She didn’t understand why she wasn’t going to heaven. She didn’t understand what it means to accept Jesus Christ as your Savior. But she was just told that if you want to go to heaven, you need to do this. And so she, okay, I’ll do it without any understanding of it. And so my biggest challenge is Trying to get people lost so that they can be safe. Trying to get people to realize that they’re drowning so that they’ll accept the life preserver, because most of them are just, most people are just inhaling water, but they think they’re okay, and that’s the biggest hindrance.

[Jay]

How do you suppose that these barriers you’ve described can be removed when you talk about engaging someone, making them realize, or helping them to realize that they’re lost? And you talked earlier about going back to the basics, back to creation and laying down those first few things for them. Is that how you suppose those barriers will be removed? That what we should be doing as Christians to reach people that have that misunderstanding.

[Benjamin]

Absolutely. So again, I will go back to the creation account, how we became guilty before God, how we’re standing, why we are in the condition we are. You know, I’ll go through Cain and Abel. I’ll talk about those sacrifices that were made there. I’ll look at Abraham and Isaac and the typology and the picture that comes from that. The Passover lamb, that’s a huge one because that very clearly shows. And so I’ll just go through and I’ll pick certain of these biblical accounts that are illustrations and depictions of the fact that we cannot save ourselves and that it’s only through the shedding of blood that God’s wrath can be satisfied. and go all the way through. And then, you enter the New Testament after going through that, and you see John the Baptist say, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. And you see Jesus on the cross shedding his blood. And then… that starts to make sense. It’s not just a whole bunch of disconnected things that we know account, but we don’t understand the significance of it. Now we understand where it fits. And I mean, knowledge is one part of it. I spend hours with each convert. You know, it usually takes hours and hours of dealing with one person before they see this. You just have to beg the Holy Spirit to work as well, because I can’t convince somebody with my words, you know, that’s a work of the Holy Spirit in their life. And so to open their eyes of the understanding, because these are things, oh yeah, I know that, I know that, I know that. But for them to see what it means and how it is applied, that’s how I believe Liberians and other people who have a similar perspective or view of Christianity, of the Bible, of these different historical and biblical accounts. how they can have their barriers removed?

[MCG]

Yeah, let me pick your brain here because we live in a microwave, two-minute ready culture. And because of that, I believe a lot of Christians don’t evangelize because they can’t go to the door or they can’t meet the person in the line in their supermarket and give a one-minute testimony and the person gets saved. because they have knocked on some doors and tried to spread the word and no one gets saved, all of a sudden they say, well, I’m going to revert to Facebook and put a post on Facebook here and there and something. And rather than really spending that time in the individual to see the individual getting saved, do you believe that’s some of the reason why we’re not seeing Christian, especially Christian in the West and Canada and the US are not sharing the gospel as they should because they don’t want to dedicate that intimate time that you would with the typical Liberian.

[Benjamin]

Yeah, I definitely think that that would be a factor in that. There’s, like you mentioned, with our current culture, we want instant gratification. We want instant results. We want to see, like, and that goes back to even when we talked about with Joseph and how many years it took for him to see the results. I was blessed to be raised in an agricultural area in southern Manitoba, and That helps put things into perspective a little bit because as a farmer, you don’t put a seed in the ground today and pull out your combine tomorrow and expect to go and harvest. There’s months of planning. There’s months of planning to even go before planting the seed. And then once the seed’s planted, there’s months of preparing the conditions and making sure everything is good for that seed to sprout and germinate and come through and produce fruit long before you’re ever going to try to harvest. And so I believe Christianity in general needs to be a lot more farsighted and think long-term. Again, that goes also in touch with some of the long-term versus short-term missions and stuff like that. There are so many things that can be done on the foreign field. that require decades of investment in order for you to see the fruit of it, which in our position as long-term missionaries, we’re willing to make those kinds of investments because we expect to be there, you know, 10, 15, 20, whatever, how many years and see it to the end. But when you’re looking in for just that quick fix or that quick result, then you either turn to methods that you think are going to get you a quick result or you just give up altogether because it’s not worth the time and investment?

[MCG]

Yeah, definitely. All right, Missionary Benjamin, it was indeed a pleasure. Thank you for joining us on the Removing Barriers podcast.

[Benjamin]

Thank you so much for having me. I enjoyed it very much.

[MCG]

Yeah, definitely.

[Jay]

Thank you so much for listening to the Removing Barriers podcast. Make sure to rate us everywhere you listen to podcasts, including Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or Stitcher. Removing Barriers, A Clear View of the Cross.

[MCG]

Thank you for listening. To get a hold of us, to support this podcast, or to learn more about removing barriers, go to removingbarriers.net. This has been the Removing Barriers Podcast. We attempted to remove barriers so that we all can have a clear view of the cross.