Episode 238

Jason Windnagle and his family are called to minister to the American servicemembers stationed in South Korea. They also reach out to and minister to the South Koreans around them. People may think that servicemembers have a true understanding of the gospel, but you will discover as you listen to this episode that this is overwhelmingly NOT the case! The U.S. Armed Forces are a cross section of the country at large, and servicemembers are increasingly ignorant of the gospel of Christ even as the population is. They also face an uphill battle against a common military culture plagued by vices of both social and traumatic origin, even while it is characterized by honor, pride, and discipline. Brother Windnagle knows the culture all too well, and in this episode, he shares with us his heart to evangelize, disciple, serve, and equip souls for Christ, and the circumstances that led him to missions in South Korea.

[Jason]

And of course, to the military member, especially, those are our holidays that embody many of the reasons that person joined the service in the 1st place for, and being able to celebrate them and recognize, especially the 4th of July, that our true freedom is found in Christ.

[Jay]

Thank you for tuning in to the Removing Barriers podcast. I’m Jay and I’m MCG. And we’re attempting to remove barriers so we can all have a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

This is episode 238 of the Removing Barriers podcast, and this is the 31st in the series of On the Mission Field. And in this episode, we’ll be going on the mission field with missionary Jason Windnagle to the U.S. service members serving in South Korea. Jason, it is indeed a pleasure. Welcome, to the Removing Barriers podcast.

[Jason]

Hello, thank you so much for having me.

[MCG]

Great. Well, thank you for placing the busy schedule because we know missionaries, especially when they unfurl, they’re running all over the place. So thank you very much.

[Jason]

No problem.

[Jay]

Hi, this is Jay. MCG and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to removingbarriers.net and subscribing to receive all things Removing Barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at removingbarriers.net slash donate. Removing barriers, a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

All right, Jason, let’s jump into it. Tell us about yourself, your family, your calling, whatever you feel comfortable sharing with the internet.

[Jason]

Sure. So I am originally from New York, grew up in upstate New York in the rural areas, so dairy farms and cornfields. And we had a traveling evangelist by the name of David Berkler, who would travel up from New Jersey and teach on end-times prophecy quite often at our church. And I had the privilege of going to my grandfather’s church and was saved when I was about 10 years old. Always enjoyed hearing this evangelist come. And one day he just said something that I felt was more or less directed right at me. He said, Well, if you’re a young person and you don’t know what God wants you to do with your life, you should consider going to Bible school. And that description fit me pretty well. So I ended up going to a one-year Bible school. Then after that, I still didn’t have much idea of what the Lord might want to do with my life. So at that time, rather than waiting on the Lord in his direction, I did what I wanted to do, which was to pursue a career in forestry. So I went to school for forestry. I graduated with a forestry degree and then actually had a little bit of trouble finding a forestry job. Eventually got a job at a cabinet shop, sweeping up wood chips after hours, and that certainly wasn’t going to pay the bills. So after that, again, not having too much clear direction. I ended up moving back home to New York and moved into my parents’ basement, which I wasn’t looking forward to doing. And apparently my mother wasn’t either because when I got there, she said, I think it’s time to go look at some military recruiters. And I thought, I think I might know where this is headed. And I’d always kind of thought about joining the military. We went and talked to several of the military branch recruiters there, ended up signing up with the Air Force. They said, that they would help me pay off my student loans. Also promised me the opportunity to travel, which I did travel a little bit, but I grew up in New York. My first assignment was in New Jersey, only three hours from my house. So a little bit annoyed with that. And I started applying for assignments after that to be able to get out of New Jersey. Eventually got picked up for Kunsan Air Force Base in Kunsan, South Korea, which is where I spent my last two years of active duty. And so that was my first exposure to South Korea. And that’s really when the Lord began working on my heart specifically for military missions.

[Jay]

If I may ask, what is it about the military? Well, I have a lot of questions, because first you said that you had a degree in forestry, and that’s not something that’s very common. So I wonder if you went to college up in Vermont, there’s a small college up there called Sterling College, and they do, well, they used to anyway, forestry, sustainable agriculture, all of that stuff, dairy farming, all of that amazing stuff. I wonder if you went up there, you go to a different college.

[Jason]

I went to a different school forestry up in the Adirondacks of New York. And then I finished out my education at the University of Montana in Missoula at Montana there.

[Jay]

That’s awesome. I didn’t even know colleges still offered that. I think that’s incredible. Okay, now back to the question that I had initially. What was it about military life that you were exposed to that you think the Lord was working on your heart about? What was it about it that you think the Lord drew you to that in terms of missions?

[Jason]

Particularly at Kunsan Air Force Base, there were two things that really stood out to me that I don’t know that I would have noticed elsewhere had I not been stationed at Kunsan. And I guess a little bit of background, Kunsan… traditionally and currently still is a one-year remote tour. So that means if you have a family, they can’t come with you and it’s a one-year assignment. So that will probably be changing for that base in the future, I’m told. But when I was there, that was the way it still currently was. And so when you take a military person away from their country, away from the culture, the language that they’re familiar with. You place them in a place that’s remote tour like that. They naturally tend to stick together there. And nothing wrong with that. But one of the things that comes out of that is you have a strong, almost military family mindset. And the negative side of that is that there tends to be a lot of partying in places like that, especially when the families aren’t present. And so alcoholism was probably one of the paramount things that I noticed right away there. Kunstan Air Force Base typically has a tradition of trying to get you intoxicated on your arrival, right when you arrive and then when you leave to celebrate your end of year tour there. And then they have a lot of exercises as well. They’re known for their long exercises. They play pretty hard at that. And they celebrate a lot when they finish those up. And alcohol plays a big part in their celebrations. And I could just see the effects that alcoholism in particular was having on the people around me and the people that I worked with. And it was pretty, I guess, discouraging to watch literally families be pulled apart and not only from the remoteness and the separation issues, but the problems that alcohol brought in along with that as well. And in addition to that, it was just one of those places where you were more or less expected to go and be a part of that drinking culture. And a lot of the units have their own clubs on the base, and they kind of have an expectation that you’ll participate in that because you’re one of the military people, you’re part of that crowd. And so they really draw you into that. I remember one incident when a supervisor came into our shop during the winter months. and was going around from desk to desk asking who wants to volunteer to walk the base perimeter this weekend to make sure nobody passes out in the cold, because if they pass out in the cold, they might not make it back to their rooms. So that’s one of the maybe more sobering aspects of that drinking culture there. The second item that really stood out to me is I had gone to one of the chaplaincy buildings just to find a quiet place to do some studying, and I watched a young fellow come in and sat down at a table a little ways away from me. And I could just tell he was really upset about something. And then I watched the chaplain come in and the chaplain sat down with him. And I thought to myself, Well, good, there’s a chaplain here. This chaplain is going to offer the counsel that this young man needs. And then I overheard a little bit of their conversation there. And the young man was just saying to the chaplain, Sir, there’s just something missing in my life. I don’t know what it is. I don’t know how to fix it. Can you help me? And the chaplain just sat there, and finally he asked the soldier, Well, have you been doing all of your sacraments? And that’s when I realized it was a Catholic chaplain, and he wasn’t going to be sharing the message of the gospel with him, which is, of course, really what he needed. And that particular incident really struck home to me, and the Lord really used that to open my eyes to the fact that our military men and women, especially overseas, need to be exposed to the gospel. We need to have that opportunity. And that’s something that may be taken for granted. You would think the military has access to the gospel, and in essence, they do, but a lot of them aren’t seeking that access. It’s up to us to take the gospel to them. And that’s, of course, what Christ did and what being a disciple is all about, being able to take the message of the gospel to them where they’re at. And especially nowadays, when there’s Of course, ever-growing stigma against Christianity and churches and those kinds of things. It can be difficult to share the gospel with them, but we need to try. If we don’t take it to them, they’re not likely to come to us. I think that’s more or less the exception to the rule if they come to us.

[Jay]

That’s absolutely true. I remember experiencing the same thing. And the problem of alcohol in our armed forces, it spreads the entire gamut, not just Air Force, Marines. Goodness, the Marines were born in a tavern. Army, Coast Guard, all of them. It’s part of the American military culture. And like you said, it really tears families apart. It destroys individuals. And when you get to service members that are using the alcohol in order to forget, or in order to self-medicate, all these different things, it really becomes a terrible problem. And the chaplains that you mentioned, I was surprised when I found out, when I was active, that chaplains don’t have to be Christian in order to serve. I remember that there was a Wiccan chaplain in one of my units, and I remember one time being deployed, a lot of the so-called Christians got, and I say so-called, not in a mean way, just some people who thought they were saved or they were interested in Christianity. These weren’t like Bible born-again believers, but anyhow, we all got together, and it was supposed to be a Bible study, And I remember this as clearly as it was yesterday. So this captain, a Marine captain, stood up and said to the chaplain, hey, sir, I really want to understand why Christianity is the way. And this is a professing Christian chaplain, right? And he says, sir, I really want to understand why you say Christianity is the way. I don’t want to get to the end of my life and the afterlife. And then somebody says to me, hey, bro, I tried to tell you, but you went the wrong way. So what can you tell me? And there was absolutely nothing the chaplain said in defense of Christianity or to explain Christianity to that man. I wasn’t commissioned, and I could have given that captain a better answer than the chaplain did. And the chaplain is commissioned, right? And I thought, oh, my word, none of these chaplains, well, maybe I shouldn’t say none, but none of the ones I ran into really knew anything about the gospel. Some of them weren’t even about the gospel at all. And that is frightening, especially when you have people in the line of work like the military, where you could be deployed and you could lose your life. You would hope that someone in the military would be able to tell you, hey, here is the way, follow the scriptures. Here’s what the Bible says. And I only found that in one chaplain in all of my time serving. I only found that in one chaplain, which is a very frightening prospect. So praise the Lord that he’s raising up men like you and families like yours to serve these service members. It definitely is a mission field.

[Jason]

Right, And I’ve met a couple of very good chaplains, but the way the chaplaincy works, and you’re familiar with this, but Baptists are lumped in under the umbrella of Protestantism. And so especially at smaller bases, They’re going to pick your mainstream denominational chaplains. They’re going to pick a Catholic chaplain, and they’re going to pick a Protestant chaplain who may or may not be of a Protestant denomination that actually preaches and teaches the gospel. And so again, we’re going separate from the chaplaincy to a little base right outside the, sorry, to a little church right outside the base there.

[MCG]

Yeah, tell us how that works. Because, a lot of folks, when they think of missionaries, they think they’re going to a country and they’re trying to reach the people there. are you trying to reach the Korean people as well? Are services in Korean? Or are they just in English? Are you just reaching to the military service men and women that are there? And what are the unique spiritual challenges that you’re seeing in the US military in South Korea?

[Jason]

Right. So first of all, we are primarily going to the U.S. military that are stationed in South Korea. We do reach out to the local Koreans as well, but the church that we’re going to, unlike most church plants in other countries, we are seeking to maintain a more American style with English services so we can provide a consistent location for military men and women to come and hear the gospel in their own language. That being said, we do regularly evangelize to the Koreans, and occasionally we have had Koreans come who don’t understand English well enough to sit through a service. And in those situations, we’ve been able to accommodate them with the translator. And so what we’ve done is we’ve given those Korean-only speakers in listeners, basically headsets, and we’ll have somebody translate in the back of the church with the transcript. And so they can still sit in the main service and listen to the preaching, but they’re hearing Korean spoken through their headset there. And so that’s how we’ve been able to approach that problem. Interesting enough, Akunsan, the city that we’re going to, was at one time, it may still be, in the Guinness Book of World Records for having the greatest numbers of churches in a single city. Wow. So they are religious. Most of that would be Presbyterian in nature. And so a little bit different belief system than we might have. And I don’t know. how many of those churches would actually be gospel preaching churches either. But probably about one-third of Koreans would claim to be Christian and then… Korea itself also has a large Confucianist or Buddhist influence as well. And then maybe that last third would be Koreans who’d claim not to be really religious at all. But Korea is very interesting. It has some of the largest churches in the world and also some of the largest cult groups in the world. And we’ve had cult members try to sneak into our church there. And so that’s been interesting. And our pastor has warned us, don’t talk to those people. They’re from such and such a cult. And that’s happened a couple of times that we know of where they’ve tried to disrupt our services in that way.

[MCG]

That they’re trying to… somehow become members and infiltrate the church? What’s their goal in coming?

[Jay]

And are they the Christ Austin Young people?

[Jason]

I don’t remember the specific cult group that they were from, but I know on the one occasion that they came, it was two ladies, I think both times, and they came specifically to literally spy out the liberty that we have in Christ. That was the first thing that they did. And the second thing was they tried to basically take over services. The one time they came, they went to the ladies night Bible study, and they tried to very subtly start promoting their cultic belief systems. And thankfully, pastor’s wife was able to shut them down pretty quickly.

[Jay]

Amen.

[Jason]

And they haven’t been back since. But that’s one of the things that they do. They try to go into churches and get a foothold and turn those churches into the cult churches. And so that’s kind of a scary thing, but they are fairly successful at that with other Korean churches. And I think one of the things that stands out, particularly about Haven Baptist Church, especially just it being a great solid Baptist church there, is that they are very strong on the fundamentals of the faith and in doctrine. And if you’re not strong in those areas, you’re going to be very susceptible to those kinds of groups moving in.

[Jay]

Very true. I remember, sorry, I feel like I’m giving stories left and right here, but I remember going to Walmart one night and there were two ladies waiting for me at the door. And I don’t know if they were just zeroing in on me or maybe I had an I’m an idiot face going on. I don’t know what it was, but they pinpointed me and talked about, do you know about Christ Aung Sun Yong? And I’m like, Christ, who? Aung Sun Yong, who’s that? Turns out it’s this South Korean cultish sort of group that has a veneer of Christianity on it, but it’s completely just awful. Just straight from the pits of hell is what that religion is. But if you didn’t have a solid footing in the word of God, you’d be fooled because they were using the Bible. And the ladies were saying, you know, I used to be Baptist, but now I believe this. It’s a deeper understanding of blah, blah, blah. And you could easily be misled. I find it very surprising that they would have the boldness to actually go to a church and try to infiltrate. But then I suppose The scriptures told us that wolves in sheep’s clothing would try to do that. Again, I say praise God for missionaries like you that see the need and actually go. So tell us more. Now, you talked about the military culture on bases in South Korea, and I imagine it’s no different than any other military base that the U.S. has across the globe. Do you, when you’re… How do I ask this question? Because with the military, there’s a lot of pride there, right? There’s a lot of pride. We are proud to be American. We go out and we do what we do. We do it best. Do you find that that’s difficult in terms of culturally? If you’ve got Koreans in the church and some of them may feel like, hey, you know, we don’t want you in our country. And then there are others who are like, meh, whatever. And then you’ve got the culture of the military. Do you find any kind of butting of heads in that way? Or does everyone just kind of follow Christ and love each other accordingly?

[Jason]

Typically, the South Koreans and Americans get along very, very well, especially the older Koreans, because they still remember the Korean War and the role that the Americans played in helping them escape from the grasp of communism from North Korea there. Most Koreans get along very well with Americans. They, in general, as a culture, really respect Americans. However, just like here in our country, the younger generation is being brought up and educated a little bit differently. And they have less of respect for Americans. And the younger folks will sometimes come out and they will protest against the American presence there in South Korea. Although the protests are very different than the way that we would see them here in America, Korean protests are very organized. They are never violent.

[Jay]

Very polite. They clean up after themselves.

[Jason]

They let you know when they’re coming. They hold their signs. They’ll go to the coffee shop, come back out. They’ll look at their clock and see their time’s up and then they’ll go home.

[Jay]

We could use some of them over here.

[Jason]

Right. So there’s that aspect of it, too. And Carrie, my wife, she lived in Korea 11 years as a single missionary in the local Christian school. So she can tell you more to that end than I can. But she’s related some interesting conversations she’s had with some of the younger folks, even in her classes, when she would ask them, well, what was the Korean War about? They’ll say something along the lines of, oh, that was just the US and Russia fighting over our country. which we would have a very different perspective of that, of course, where we were trying to preserve the democracy of South Korea. And so that’s pretty interesting there. But overall, the Koreans really respect the Americans and the two nationalities get along very well and especially in the church. Awesome.

[MCG]

What are some things folks should keep in mind if they feel led like you to serve the Lord or to serve the US service members in South Korea or maybe in Japan or wherever else we have basis, what would you tell them to keep in mind if they be led to do so?

[Jason]

They should definitely pray about that and seriously pursue it. So I was talking with a pastor who served in the Navy for many years, and he told me a pretty interesting fact from his career. He told me that in over 10 years of service with the Navy, not once did anyone ever come to him and ask him if he was to die today, would he go to heaven? when he died. Wow. And so a lot of times, again, we think that the people in the military are being exposed to the gospel on a regular basis, and that simply isn’t true. And there’s military bases, of course, all over the US. And I know our mission board is frequently contacted from churches near bases asking for help to set up programs or try to find avenues to reach those military members on the bases. And our board simply isn’t large enough to be able to handle all of those requests. And so there’s a great need for that. And you had mentioned something else as well. That’s very true. But our military men and women, they’re taught to be self-reliant, right? There’s definitely a sense of pride there. And they’re taught to defend our country. And they’re given the best training that they can be given. They’re taken care of financially. Their housing situations are taken care of. All those, I guess, regular needs that we have are met for them, and rightfully so. But when you put a person in that position where everything’s taken care of for them, it’s often very difficult for them to realize there’s something more that they’re missing. They’re prepared to fight the physical battles, but they’re still not prepared to fight the spiritual battles. And that’s something that we’ve seen over and over again to be true, is that when more serious, more difficult things come across their paths, they don’t have their spiritual grounding and that spiritual foundation in Christ to be able to withstand that. One of the more sobering events of my military career is my very first duty station at McGuire Air Force Base, and there was a young man who lived on the floor below me just a few doors down. And I was only at that base for a matter of weeks when I learned that that man, never having met him, had committed suicide because he felt just completely alone and isolated. And of course, that’s one of those difficult realities of military life, that there are more suicides than you would think that there should be. And again, part of that is when those more difficult spiritual battles and things become come into someone’s life, they’re not ready for them. And that’s something that only the gospel can fix. Yeah.

[Jay]

Interesting. You mentioned suicide, which is obviously a big problem in America’s armed forces. It’s a huge problem in South Korea as well. I think a couple of years ago, South Korea had the highest rate of suicide in the world. And so that hopelessness, that despair, it crosses all kinds of cultural bounds. Everyone to some degree is feeling like this. And you mentioned that you do reach out to the South Koreans as well. Do you find that same kind of hopelessness and despair in the South Korean population as well?

[Jason]

Yes, occasionally. And where you see it probably most prominent is with the younger high school age to early college aged people. And one of the reasons for that is their culture. stresses education tremendously, which certainly education is a wonderful thing, but they stress it sometimes to the point where high schoolers especially are overwhelmed with just the responsibility and trying to figure out the right way to say it. And just the…

[Jay]

The expectations of them?

[Jason]

Expectation, right. Just the expectation of that because high school for Koreans determines everything. What you graduate, with in high school, from what school you come from, determines what college you can go to, therefore determining what career you can have. And so high school is the most stressful time for high school students. Of course, in Korea, they’re the most stressful time of all Korean education, I’ve heard. So that’s certainly a tough place to be.

[MCG]

Yeah. As a follow-up to the previous question, How difficult was it to, I don’t know if convince is the right word, but of course, missionaries have to raise support, go on deputation, and churches like the cookie cutter kind of a missionary where, hey, I’m going to this country, I feel led to these people. And then here you come into saying, hey, I’m going to the military service members. Did you get any pushback from churches? How difficult was it to raise support? support for a unique mission fee like you have?

[Jason]

We had a little bit of difficulty. There were a few churches who we had reached out to who simply said, well, you don’t fall in the category of a traditional church planter. And though we love what you’re doing, unfortunately, that’s not something we can support. And we understand that. We’re doing what we would probably define as more of a niche ministry. We’re not the traditional church plan, or we’re not seeking to nationalize a church and turn it over and make it a South Korean church. We’re primarily there for the US military. So in that regard, there is maybe a little bit more difficulty than the average missionary that’s going to seek and raise support to go to perhaps like Africa or a closed country. Typically, closed countries get a lot more interest from churches than perhaps smaller niche ministries do. But we’ve been really encouraged by the churches that we’ve been able to go to. In almost every church we go to, we have the privilege of hearing firsthand accounts from people related to service members or people who are prior to service, their testimonies of the great work that God has done in their lives through a military ministry. And that’s been a tremendous blessing to us to be able to see that as we’ve been going through our deputation, which is almost finished now.

[Jay]

All right, so then when do you head to the field? Are you at liberty to share or?

[Jason]

Yes, so we’re planning to be in South Korea by the end of next spring. So I am still actually a reservist in the U.S. Air Force, and so I do all of my annual service requirements in the spring. I have a pretty unique reserve assignment there, so I can do that without having any weekend duty. So once I finish that out this coming spring, And then we plan on moving to South Korea. So we’re pretty excited about that. We have about, right now, three quarters of our support raised. So almost finished. You think that we’ll be finished up this year and then we’ll be planning to move.

[Jay]

Well, praise the Lord. Now, besides the support, you’re three quarters of the way there. What other needs, if filled, would make your task of sharing the gospel with the military service members in South Korea easier?

[Jason]

That’s a very good question. One of the challenges with sharing the gospel with military members is that the military on installations have some regulations against what they call proselytizing. And so though I have access to a military installation because I’m a current reservist, I can’t just go and knock on doors on the base. That would get me in trouble and probably kicked off the base. And so just being able to have a good relationship with whatever chaplain is there is really helpful. Sometimes at Kunsan, for example, you get some chaplains that are very negative towards the ministry off the base, and they’re difficult to work with, while other ones are more open and will allow you more privileges on the base. And I’ve heard of a couple of cases where the chaplaincy has allowed churches and pastors to go and actually knock on doors on bases, but that’s quite the exception rather than the rule there. So being allowed a favor, I guess, like Daniel, praying for favor in the sight of the military leadership and the chaplaincain can go a long ways. That’s one area there.

[MCG]

Yeah. Do you find that the typical service member have a good background in who Jesus is, what sin is, a foundational Christian heritage? Or do you find them to be more like Acts chapter 17, where they have no idea who God is and they’re praying to the unknown God and they’re seeking, but they don’t know what they’re seeking? Where would you say they mostly would land in that spectrum?

[Jason]

Right. I would say definitely Acts 17. So I would think of our American military as simply a crosscut of American culture at large. And even here in the States, it’s becoming more and more common for you to come across people who may have heard the name of Jesus. They’re aware of churches, but they have no concept or understanding of what the message of the gospel really is or what it really means. And there’s a gentleman that I was able to speak with at Andrews Air Force Base just a couple of weeks ago, and we had the opportunity to have some good conversations with him. And it was quite apparent that he had very little Bible knowledge. And that’s not just like a one-off, but most of the younger military folks that we have come in contact with know very little about the Bible and know very little about Christianity. And they have grown up in a society that has basically taught them that Christianity is just kind of like a fairy tale type thing to them. Right. So that presents, of course, challenges in itself. How do you try to share the gospel with somebody and then, you know, convince them that’s the truth? Well, thankfully, that’s not our job. It’s the Holy Spirit’s job to work in our hearts and bring them to that understanding there. But nevertheless, our communication with them, hopefully, will have an element of of a godly persuasion in that, right? Paul, he was trying to persuade the Epicureans and the Stoics there in Acts 17 to take a closer look at the message of the gospel and who the person of Jesus was, and he spoke to them. about the unknown God. And that’s a very good place for us to start with our military members as well.

[MCG]

Would you say there’s anything the church in the U.S., maybe doing that to make your task of reaching the U.S. service members more difficult? I know churches tend to be very charitable to service members. Is that causing an issue? Is there anything the churches, especially the Bible preaching, Bible believing ones?

[Jason]

I may have to think about this one just for a moment. I don’t think that there’s anything American churches are doing that is a hindrance to military ministries, other than perhaps not considering the fact that we shouldn’t be relying on solely the chaplaincy to reach our military men and women. And I think that is something to really think about, right? The Great Commission came to the church, and the chaplaincy does have, I think, some tremendous benefits that it offers. However, it’s not the Lord’s church, and it’s not really, I think, the right avenue for which we should be depending on spreading the gospel. That should be coming through our local churches. So that’s what really our heart is, to see more local churches being involved specifically with military outreaches and ministries where they can be.

[MCG]

Another curious question here, and I’m going to let you off the hook if you don’t want to answer this one. Oh boy. So talking about the chaprancy and the military service members and stuff like that, Pete Hexett just, I think recently, kind of change or narrow down how many recognized, quote unquote, religions the military is going to be recognizing. And of course, I think there’s lawsuits all around the place now and stuff like that. What are your thoughts on that, if you can give any?

[Jason]

Oh, boy. I’m not super up to speed on that. I would think that if you narrowed it, that would probably be limiting it more to your traditional…

[MCG]

Right, mainstream. I think he cut out even Wiccan. I think Wiccan is even now not recognized as a religion for the military. I think he cut out stuff like that and, you know, jump over the broom and call it your religion, whatever the case may be.

[Jason]

Right. Yeah, your more traditional denominations.

[MCG]

Right.

[Jason]

I don’t know. I guess I’d have to think about that. I think… An initial thought would be it’s probably to our benefit, but I can see it swinging the other way pretty quickly too.

[MCG]

Right, All right. Well, before we go into this break, Jason, it’s the 4th of July, it’s the 250th anniversary of independence. Do you want to say anything as a person who’s going to One, that is in the service, and two, you’re going to try to win service members to the Lord. Say something since, you know, this episode is on the 4th of July.

[Jason]

Right. Yeah, it’s interesting. When you go to foreign countries, they don’t celebrate the 4th of July. And of course, my opinion is that they should, but I understand why they don’t. But that being said, when you get to a foreign country as a military member and you’re there over the 4th of July, celebrating holidays becomes very special, especially places like Kunsan, South Korea, when you’re there without your family for a year. And so that’s one of the things that we really try emphasize, we really try to celebrate those American holidays, 4th of July, Thanksgiving, Christmas, because those are very special holidays. And of course, to the military member, especially, those are our holidays that embody many of the reasons that person joined the service in the first place for, and being able to celebrate them. and recognize, especially the 4th of July, that our true freedom is found in Christ and celebrate the 4th of July in a church setting, even if overseas, is a tremendous encouragement. And I would encourage folks to say, Thank you for your service to a veteran. If you see someone wearing a hat or something like that, it’ll be an encouragement to them. And you might learn something too. We were just up at Gettysburg visiting a church there. We went to a World War II museum. And I had the privilege of meeting a World War II veteran who was on a tank crew in the Battle of the Bulge. Wow. And so that was very neat. He told me he joined the army at age 15, turned 16 during the war. And by the time he was 17, the war was over. So you don’t get the opportunity to meet some of those older veterans. So I would say take that opportunity if you can.

[MCG]

Wow.

[Jay]

That man had to be in his 80s, 90s. if not more.

[MCG]

Well, I’m just surprised how long just joined the military that young.

[Jay]

Right.

[MCG]

All right. Well, Jay, you’re a former Marine, 4th of July, 250 years. Do you want to say anything on the 4th?

[Jay]

I do. America is a great country, and we should celebrate it. I want fireworks everywhere, everyone dressed in red, white, and blue. And just like our brother, Jason Windnagle, said, we ought not to forget that true liberty flows from Christ. And let this 4th of July galvanize every Christian to go out and share the gospel, whether you’re knocking on doors or you’re talking to strangers, maybe you’re talking to the cashier at the grocery store, or maybe you’re reaching out to your neighbor. Jesus Christ is the true source of liberty. He died on the cross so that we could be saved from our sin, the oppressive nature of sin that we were slaves to, the Bible says. Christ broke those chains and anyone who believes in him will have eternal life. That is the lifeblood of everything that we hold dear as Americans. And so I pray that we would not just be patriotic, that we would also, as I said, be galvanized to take the gospel to our friends and neighbors and strangers.

[MCG]

All right. you’re listening to the Removing virus podcast. This is now with missionary Jason Windnagle. He’s going to South Korea to the service members there and we’re also wishing you a happy 4th. We’ll be right back.

[Jay]

Are you looking for a consistent and reliable place to get all your Christian materials? Try ChristianBook.com. Started from humble beginnings in 1978, ChristianBook.com now offers a wide range of books, CDs, DVDs, homeschooling, and church supplies, plus more. So whether you are a parent, a homeschooler, a pastor, or a layperson, ChristianBook.com can be a one-stop shop for all your needs. Click the link in the description section below and check out the vast array of Christian materials christianbook.com has to offer.

[MCG]

All right, Jason, let’s go into a little bit of a fun section and find out some of your favorites. Let’s start with your favorite scripture verse.

[Jason]

All right, my favorite scripture verse, also my wife’s favorite verse, Proverbs 3, 5 and 6, trust in the Lord with all thine heart and lead not to thine own understanding, in all thy ways acknowledge him and he, shall direct thy paths. And that’s just been a special verse for us, especially since we started deputation, not having much enough idea of what we should be doing or where will we end up going as far as deputation travels. And it’s just been really neat to see the Lord honor that. And as we’ve trusted him, he’s taken us to the places that we’ve needed to be.

[Jay]

Amen, amen. What is your favorite historical biblical account?

[Jason]

Oh boy, favorite historical biblical accounts. Probably the story of John the Baptist. He is probably my favorite character in the Bible, and I just really love how bold he is. And he goes after those he needs to go after. He confronts them, and he proclaims Christ without apology. But yet, in the midst of all that, he is such a humble servant, and he’s always pointing people to Christ. And he’s just been a tremendous example to me. And yet, in spite of that, the Bible also records that he was very human, like you and like me. And during his imprisonment, he had some struggles, he had some doubts. And you can see that Jesus encourages him through that, through the messengers from John. And I think that’s a tremendous encouragement to us as well.

[MCG]

Amen. What would you say is the most convicting scripture passage to you?

[Jason]

Oh, boy. So One of the most convicting scripture passages for me is John 21:21 and 22. And so this is where Jesus is talking with Peter, and I’ll read them to you here. Peter, seeing him, speaking of John, saith to Jesus, Lord, and what about this man? And Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow, thou me. I think that’s really convicting to me because we have one Lord and Savior to whom we are all individually accountable to. It’s not about what the other person is doing or is not doing, right? We have an individual purpose and responsibility which God has given us and that He’s going to hold us accountable for. And so just the fact that We need to be aware of that accountability that is coming. We want to give a good account, of course, steward our time and our resources, not only in a wisely way, but in accordance to His will for our individual lives. And so that’s a convicting passage for me. Amen.

[Jay]

What is the most comforting scripture verse or scripture passage for you?

[Jason]

The most comforting verse for me, there’s probably two of them, but the first one is Acts 1338. And this passage here says, Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins. And by him all that believe are justified from all things from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. I just love the fact that that speaks to Jesus being the ultimate sacrifice for us and the ultimate justification for our sins and those areas in which we were lacking. He supplied. And so we’re not without hope in that. And then following right along with that is John 20:28. And this is really the interaction of Thomas. And then John writes a couple of really interesting verses with that. And we’ll start here at 28. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed. Blessed are they that have not seen. and yet have believed. And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book, but these are written that ye might believe that Jesus is Christ, the Son of God, that believing ye might have life through His name. And I really appreciate those verses. I think they’re very comforting because in spite of the fact that we haven’t been able to talk with Jesus face to face as the disciples did, He was still thinking of us. When the Bible was written with us in mind, it was for our understanding that we could have the opportunity to be saved and have that same relationship with Jesus Christ, just as the disciples did, even though we can’t see him yet face to face. And I think that’s super comforting to me.

[Jay]

What about your favorite hymn of the faith?

[Jason]

So my favorite hymn is Be Thou My Vision. I just always loved that song. love the words of the song and love the music of the song. And if I ever get a chance, if somebody asks, what song would you like to sing or what song would you like to play? That’s my go-to one right there. And I just love how it speaks to really the relationship that we can have with our Heavenly Father and really his grace and mercy and how he takes care of us. It’s a tremendous song.

[MCG]

We won’t put you on the spot and ask you to sing it.

[Jason]

That’s good. You probably wouldn’t have many listeners left after that.

[Jay]

That’s our son’s favorite too. We have family devotions and whenever we have them pick which hymn do you want to sing? Our oldest, he loves that hymn as well.

[Jason]

Very good.

[MCG]

Who would you say is your favorite giant of the faith from the Bible?

[Jason]

Well, I read to John the Baptist earlier, but also Daniel. I think Daniel is a tremendous man of faith, tremendous man of God. And he was put in some very difficult situations and just his consistent faithfulness to serve Christ, even under several kings, secular leadership there. And he had this tremendous testimony about him that he was just able to live for the Lord in such a unique way that he’s an example to all of us. And in spite of the challenges that he faced, Despite it being in exile from his homeland there, he still had a very special relationship with the Lord. And that’s something that’s also convicting to me, is to be able to have a relationship like that with the Lord. Amen.

[Jay]

So we’re coming toward the end of the podcast here, and we so deeply appreciate you spending time with us. What are some of the biggest barriers to those service members that are stationed in South Korea? What are some of the barriers that they have to receiving the gospel?

[Jason]

Right. I think some of them we have already touched on. The fact that they’re young, they’re fit, they’re healthy, they’re in a good place, typically, physically, financially. But the fact is they’re missing that spiritual aspect. And being able to break through maybe the pride that is there with knowing you’re a capable person is challenging. So there’s that aspect of it. Another aspect of it is that Christianity really isn’t seen as a maybe manly thing to believe in. And especially for some of those ******** military guys, they’re not going to view Christianity as something that they want any part of simply for that reason. It doesn’t fit their mindset, their thinking there. Even though we know some of the strongest and greatest Christians you know have been recorded there’s stories in the Bible there and there’s tremendous examples of strength and certainly Jesus he was not a weakling right he was meek but at times he was a very strong very aggressive and he had that perfect balance of truth and grace and he was strong when he needed to be and he was loving and caring where that was needed as well.

[MCG]

Yeah definitely how would you say those barriers can be removed?

[Jason]

I think probably the first aspects of that is simply showing the military folks that you genuinely care about them. And from there building relationships, and then from building relationships, being able to express the need for the gospel in their life. And there have been several times when I’ve been approached by military members, they knowing that I am a Christian, and when they came across hard times in their life, they came to me and they weren’t people that I would necessarily have thought would want anything to do with Christianity. But when the hard times came, they would come to me and then I had that opportunity to open up the Bible with them and to show them what God’s word has to say about a given situation or share some biblical advice with them. And so it’s interesting that when You place a military person in an extremely difficult situation. Maybe when the facade of easy living is removed and they get a glimpse of what reality is really like, then that’s when the Lord can really begin to work in their hearts. And more often than not, you see that overseas in places where military members are maybe at times lonely or uncomfortable because they’re apart from their families for so long. And they begin to realize, you know, there’s a loneliness in my heart. There’s a loneliness in my life. It’s something greater and bigger than I realized it was before. And so maybe at that point, they’ll become a seeker and we can hopefully be there to give them the answers, the right answers that they need.

[MCG]

Yeah, definitely. There’s no atheists in the foxhole as they say, right?

[Jason]

Right, right.

[MCG]

Yeah, definitely. Well, Jason, it was indeed a pleasure. Thank you for joining us on the Removing Barriers podcast.

[Jason]

Thank you. It’s been a privilege.

[MCG]

Amen.

[Jay]

Thank you so much for listening to the Removing Barriers podcast. Make sure to rate us everywhere you listen to podcasts, including Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or Stitcher. Removing Barriers, a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

Thank you for listening. To get a hold of us, To support this podcast or to learn more about removing barriers, go to removingbarriers.net. This has been the Removing Barriers podcast. We attempted to remove barriers so that we all can have a clear view of the cross.