Episode 237

In this episode, we sit down with the Faria family to the Dominican Republic in this new installment of the On the Mission Field series. Cleverson and Stefanie Faria share a wonderful testimony of God’s love reaching across national and cultural boundaries. Having saved a Brazilian man and an American woman, He brought them together in marriage, and called them to serve the people of the Dominican Republic as missionaries. The country is mostly Catholic, and cultural pressures sometimes keep people tied to the spiritual darkness even when they see their need for the Savior. The Farias work carefully and diligently to establish and maintain relationships that keep the doors open to sharing the true light of the gospel with the people. In this episode, we learn how God saved them, called them to the mission field, and what He is doing through them to bring the lost into His marvelous light.

[Cleverson]

They really think by heart that they are saved. Then they say, we are Christian. We are Christian Asian. And Satan is work so hard with this that they don’t see it. They need Christ, not church.

[Jay]

Thank you for tuning in to the Removing Barriers Podcast. I’m Jay and I’m MCG. And we’re attempting to remove barriers so we can all have a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

This is episode 237 of the Removing Barriers Podcast. And this is the 30th in the series of On the Mission Field. And in this episode, we’ll be going on the mission field with Missionary Cleverson and Stefanie Faria to the Dominican Republic. Cleverson, Stefanie, welcome to the Removing Barriers podcast.

[Cleverson]

Thank you very much. We appreciate the opportunity.

[MCG]

Great. And I’m so glad you’re here, Stefanie, because we don’t usually get the wives. So you are one of few that have joined their husband on one of these episodes?

[Stefanie]

Oh, neat. I’m glad to be here.

[MCG]

Great.

[Jay]

Hi, this is Jay. MCG and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to removingbarriers.net and subscribing to receive all things removing barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at removingbarriers.net/donate. Removing barriers. A clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

All right. Well, Stefanie, Cleverson, tell us about your calling, your family, whatever you want to share with the internet.

[Cleverson]

Well, I am Brazilian, born in Brazil, and accepted Christ with 11 years old.

[MCG]

Amen.

[Cleverson]

By Awana Club. And in Brazil, most people love to play soccer. And I was playing soccer, and the Bible students from the Bible college passing by invited me to Awana Club. At the first, I said no, because I was playing soccer, so not better than I shall play soccer, but they insist, and after a while, I decide to go, and I love it. The Awana Club is returning every Saturday after a month. I understood that, I thought actually that because my parents were to the church before, I thought that I was Christian. So when I understood that now, I was not saved, I had to make my own decision. So I understood that gospel and accept Christ as my Savior, my Lord, 11 years old, and then God started to change my life. So I think the best decision I ever made when that happened, and since then, following the Lord’s path. And God is being very grateful with that.

[MCG]

Amen. Before you jump in, Stefanie, I need to correct Cleverson on something. I know in Brazil that you all don’t call it soccer. You call it football. Just like us from the Caribbean, we call it football. So would you mind correcting that for the audience, please?

[Cleverson]

Well, that is a great thing. I never call soccer, never. But because in America, They say soccer. So I have to say that. Unfortunately, because for us, it’s football. That’s what it is. It’s football. We grow up in football. But because America is the only country who call football soccer, well, I have to adapt.

[MCG]

Well, I make fun of them because I said to them, how can a sport that you use primarily with your hand be football? And the sport that you use primarily with your feet be something else.

[Cleverson]

That is perfect. That’s perfect. But you know, Americans don’t like that, so…

[MCG]

Okay.

[Cleverson]

We must do the way.

[MCG]

I won’t cause any more trouble. Stefanie, why don’t you tell us about your testimony?

[Stefanie]

When I was four years old, my parents were called to go to Brazil as missionaries. And it was hard for me because my grandmother picked me up every day from school and took me out to eat and then we would go to her house and I got to spend the entire day with her. And so having to leave her behind was super hard for me. And when we moved there, it was really easy for me to learn Portuguese because I was only five years old. And I would play out on the street with all the kids and ride my bike. And so I learned the language within a month. And as we were at church one night, the lady was teaching on sin and on hell. and how we would go to hell because of our sins and that our parents’ decisions or the things that our parents had done would not gain salvation for us. And I was so very offended by that because I had given up time with my grandma and my granddaddy, and I had given up Taco Bell and all the comforts of the United States. And I just couldn’t understand how that could possibly be. And so that night when my parents sent me to bed, I started to talk to them about it. And I was like, Do you know what she said tonight? And they were like, Well, that’s true. Stefanie, nothing that we do can save you. And so they told me the gospel again, and I got saved that night. And growing up in Brazil, I mean, I loved everything about growing up in Brazil. And we lived in a big city, Curitiba, and so there were several missionaries there, so there was a missionary school there. And pretty much all of us just assumed that we would be going back as missionaries to Brazil. And so I can’t say that I had a moment where I felt the Lord calling me to missions. always knew I would end up on the mission field.

[MCG]

All right. Well, before I let my wife jump in, why don’t you tell us how you guys met and how this beautiful love story came into being?

[Stefanie]

I tell it better. For sure.

[MCG]

The ladies always do.

[Stefanie]

Yeah, for sure. So he was the president of the youth group at our church, and I was the shy bookworm. You know, I would open up when I was around my friends, but if I was in a large group, I was very shy and quiet. And so I tried to stay as far away from him as I possibly could. And when I graduated from high school, I stayed in Brazil a year and did Bible college for a year at the Bible college down there. And I had to be paired with somebody for Christian service. And for Christian service, we had to do three hours on Saturdays of evangelism and three hours of discipleship on Sunday afternoons. And my dad was in charge of pairing us. And I I told him, Listen, anybody but Cleverson, okay? Please don’t put me with him. I cannot spend that much time with him. And so when he came home that night, he was not trying to talk to me. He was trying to stay away from me. And I was like, so I went up to him and I said, You did not. You did not do that to me. He said, There was no one else to pair you with. So I had to pair you with him. And he says that we went out winning souls and then he won me over little by little along the way.

[MCG]

Oh, amen.

[Jay]

That’s so sweet. Now, just so that I understand clearly, Claverson, the church where they invited you to Ulmana, is that the very same church that you joined after salvation and you were discipled and now you’re the president of the youth group or is this a different church that you all met in?

[Cleverson]

Well, that’s a different church. I grew up in this church that accept Christ, who had Awana Club. My parents moved from the area to another area after, I would say, three or four years.

[Jay]

Okay. Understood.

[Cleverson]

And after that, I started to go to the church. Her dad was a pastor.

[Jay]

Right.

[Cleverson]

And then everything else happened the way she said.

[Jay]

That’s awesome. Can you tell us a little more about how the Lord worked on your heart to increase your interest and your desire to go to the mission field?

[Cleverson]

What happened was this, when I accepted Christ, I immediately knew that God wanted me to do something more than just go to the church. And I was like super active at the church, started teaching very soon. Like the first time I preached at the church, I was 13 years old. Oh wow. And I was so small guy that only my head, you can see from the pulpit. So when I was 14 years old, I started to grow and I passed everybody. That started to be normal for me. Then in my mind, I’m going to be a pastor in Brazil. That was what I decided. So I went to Bible college to be a pastor in Brazil. And what happened was after three years, I decided that now that’s not what God wants for me. So I graduated early. And for the next three years after that, nothing works well in my life. Everything did not go through. Everything, like I was not doing something wrong. I was not doing something away from the Lord. But I knew that God want me in the ministry. But I decided not to do that. And that three years was a miserable three years. When I finally understood and I surrender my life for that is, let me give very short with this because this is a long story, but shortly for that for understand how God work. For three years nothing happened. nothing about a good job. And finally, in the last year, I found a wonderful job. But that job started to put me away from the Lord. I was still doing everything for the church, like preaching, directing music, teaching Sunday school, everything that the youth people, nothing changed, but my heart was changing. So, one day I woke up in the morning, And my face was one side totally bigger than the normal, like was double face from the comics. It was ridiculous and hurts a lot. And I went to the doctors. I make some tests. I did everything that’s possible. None of the doctors found out what happened. That started February through November, one week. bad and two weeks good. One week bad, two weeks good. All this time, it was a table, and I knew immediately that God was touching me. I looked for doctors, medicine, everything, and none of them couldn’t find what’s going on. One week at the end of November, I was okay. A friend of mine called me and said, Well, how about we go to the pastor’s chief that is Stefanie’s dad? Go there and do a Bible study with him. Let’s go. So we arrived to his home and he, what do you guys want to study? Whatever you want. So I remember that he taught us in Daniel. After one hour, he started to talk with my friend. Well, you have this problem. You have this to fix it, and this, and this, and this. And I thought, That’s correct. This is exactly what you have to fix it. I told you about it. So I was confirmed with that. And then Stefanie’s dad looked at me. After 20 minutes talk with him, looked at me, and then he said, Well, how about you, Cleverson? And my friend now, now it’s your turn, huh? So he stopped for like a minute, said nothing, and oh my. And then he finally, When are you going to return to Bible college? I didn’t answer, and he stopped, said anything else. So after a while, we left his home, and the next time I returned, we had a bad time. And Dr. Billy Martin came to Brazil for the first time. He’s a tremendous man of God. He came to the conference for us in Brazil. conference normally starts Friday to Sunday, but this moment, our church starts Wednesday through Sunday, first time ever. He did the message and her dad started to do an invitation and I was holding the pill for me to not go through the invitation. The reason is, culturally speaking, Brazilians answer invitation normally the last day of the conference. You have the entire conference in the last day, do invitation and everybody go to the front, consecrate the life, change what they need to do. But that first day he started the invitation and keep going, keep going, 10 minutes, he keep going. And I was there, why he did not finish the invitation? And then he kept going. And then I talked to the Lord and said, Well, I surrender. I know that you want me returned. So I went to the front. I said, I have your answer right now. I’m going to return to Bible College next semester. So he gave me a hug that almost destroyed me with his hug. And then I talked to the church, and I returned to Bible College. After that, that sickness never returned. Oh, wow. Never, never. I’ll start, finish, and no one have no idea, never return. So obviously it was God, obviously the way that God used to touch me. But I learned that when we rebellion, it is complicated because God always has His way, and His way is better. So I returned to Bible College, and my idea when I graduate is continued in Brazil. At that time, I remember that I helped to start two churches. So I knew everything from Brazil. I know the language. I do not need to do something different. Well, then I came to U.S. in 2007 when we married, 2007, and our idea is return to Brazil. So we decided, we joined the mission board. But guess what? Nothing happened to receive support to go to Brazil. We have five couples with us at the moment, and none of the five couples are received support to go to Brazil. Oh, wow. Obviously, it was God, one more time, acting in our life. Her dad received an invitation to go to Dominican Republic, and he grew up in Africa, so he don’t want to go to Dominican Republic because he have relationship with Africa in Brazil. but someone insisted and he went to Dominican the first day in Dominican he call me and then he said like something like clever so I don’t want to call your team but you need to come to Dominican my answer no dad I do not go to Dominican and then he every single day he continued to call me and at the last day I I said, finally, a spiritual answer. Let’s pray. And he returned. He continued to talk with me what he saw there. So, we decided to make a mission trip to Dominican. And the first day, I understood why God closed the door to Brazil. Dominicans are very similar to Brazil in several aspects. In others, they are totally different. But I feel basically home in Dominican. And then, When we returned, we decided that God really called us to Dominican, and guess what? Support came. So we moved to Dominican in 2017, and that is what we are doing in Dominican right now. Amen.

[MCG]

Well, let’s get into the Dominican Republic. For those who are not from the Caribbean like I am, tell our listeners, where on the globe is the Dominican Republic?

[Stefanie]

So you have Florida, and then right underneath Florida, you have Cuba. And then right below Cuba and a little bit to the right, you’ll have the island that shared by Haiti and the Dominican Republic. And then Puerto Rico is just below us and a little bit to the right.

[MCG]

All right.

[Jay]

Can you tell us more about the Dominican Republic? Can you tell us about its capital city, the population, the religious makeup? And perhaps you can tell us more about where you are going in particular to, or where you are in the Dominican Republic and where you’re sharing the gospel.

[Cleverson]

Well, we have about almost 12 million our population. Dominican Republic speaks Spanish. There’s another reason that the first, I don’t want to go Dominican because, well, I speak Portuguese very well. I grew up Brazil. I came to United States in 2007 and started to learn English. I should learn English. It’s a very hard language. Oh my, it’s complicated, English in several aspects. And then to learn another language, I was thinking, No, that’s not for me. But you know, God always has something more for us. Right. Now, Dominican, they are Catholic. Most of the population, about 70% of the population, are Catholic. Catholic Church are strong in the island. We share the island with Haiti, the first discover from Christopher Columbus in 1492, and we start our work there in the place called Puerto Plata at the north of the island. We established the first church. Now we start a second church at the center of the island, a place called La Vega. La Vega is about 300, 400,000 inhabitants. And we are basically surrounded by a mountain that protects us for hurricanes or things like very bad in the area, the Caribbean area. But because the Dominicans are very Catholic, the island and most of the people there think they’re Christian. In fact, every time you call with someone, they are very religious people. they call Christian and they’re a proud people to say they’re the only flag in the world who has a Bible in their flag. And what for me is amazing, they’re very proud about the flag, the Bible in their flag. But what is amazing for me is that when I start to talk with them, they have no idea what the Bible says. So that is a little something that is not nice of them. And I would say because the religions, they think they are saves, and especially because Catholic background, salvation by work. So they think so much, they need to go through the Mary, need to go to the Pope, go to the Sacerdot. So it’s something that is a little complicated aspect. They love baseball. They try hard to be professional and come to United States to be professionals, make some money. That’s what they did. They would come early, early to practice baseball. So the island is very receptive. They talk with you without problem. They are not going to reject you, talk about the gospel, very open people. basically their way about Dominican.

[Stefanie]

The capital city is Santo Domingo, and it’s about two hours from us to the south. And it, you know, because it was built so long ago, it was built with smaller roads. And so as it has grown, it has too many people, too many cars. And so they’ve built a monorail, which we’re hoping will help to alleviate some of the traffic there, but for whoever wants to come and visit, we can take you to Diego Columbus’s home. It was destroyed by Sir Francis Drake. It was rebuilt, and so we can take you to see that and the fort. There’s a lot of history, and there are also beautiful beaches all around the island.

[MCG]

Yeah, definitely.

[Jay]

Sounds gorgeous. Now I’m looking at a map of the Dominican Republic. I see Puerto Plata, and I see that Santiago is south of that, and La Vega, that’s where you are now, is that right?

[Cleverson]

Yes.

[Jay]

Right, okay, and that’s south of Santiago. And then it’s almost like you cut the country in half from Puerto Plata down to Santo Domingo, and you’re right there in the middle. And you’re saying there’s a mountain range there that protects you from the crazy hurricanes that come through. So it must be like a tropical paradise living there, except the Catholicism and the spiritual darkness there, would you? Could you say that about sums it up there?

[Cleverson]

Yeah. The only thing also is, for example, people sometimes when they think about Caribbean, as you said, they think about the paradise. In fact, there are wonderful, beautiful places there, but also there are a lot of poverty. There are people there, for example, in our first year, we arrived September 2017. November, we received a huge hurricane that we received the effects. They do not touch our side. Sometimes they touch the other side of the island, Haiti, but the base don’t touch Dominican. But we received like a lot of raining. And the raining made-up a lot of flood, the island. And we went to help some of our people. And some of our people, their houses, for example, have no floors. Oh, wow. Some of them have no windows or electricity. Most people think about Dominican, they think the paradise, but it is half and a half. There are wonderful places, wonderful houses, also very poor people. And that is not showing. The people do not like to show that area. I normally, I like to show everything because when the people visit us, I take them to the places that are very poor and they are shocked. They think, well, I don’t expect that. Well, the reality of the island is that there’s not only beautiful places, but also places that are not nicest. And another thing is because we share the island with Haiti, we have some problems between the two nations. It’s complicated relationship between both, and sometimes it starts to be more dramatic than normal. God is good and God is taking care of the things over there.

[MCG]

How close is Spanish to Portuguese? How difficult was it for you to learn it? Both of you, how difficult was it for you to transition into Spanish?

[Stefanie]

So the Portuguese really helped to understand and to speak Spanish. They say it all the time with a different accent. So you’ll put the accent in a different part of the word. But sometimes Portuguese is just different enough to really trip you up. Right. But it really has been a big help. They’ll come to me and they’ll say, How do you know these big words? That’s because I speak Portuguese. That’s not the Spanish.

[Jay]

Awesome. Now, you mentioned how a majority of the island, well, a majority of the country is Catholic, and there is quite a bit of poverty there, so I imagine that families ties would be really strong, especially if, you know, if you’re going through that kind of life together and you have that strong Catholic bond, typically in Catholicism, you have that very strong, it’s not just a religion, it’s more cultural as well. When you talk to people about the Lord and about what salvation actually means, do you find that they’re receptive to the gospel, but they’re afraid perhaps of, you know, leaving the family culturally, leaving the Catholicism culturally, or do you find that people have no problems separating the two and receiving the gospel.

[Stefanie]

Yes, in fact, our teammates, the neighbor was Catholic. And so she was doing a Bible study with her because she really was seeking. But when she realized that she was going to have to turn her back on the Catholic Church, and that they would then turn their back on her. She realized that she’d be leaving her entire family, her entire, you know, everything that she had ever known. She had to come to a point where she made a decision. And our teammate said, you know, you could see that she was really at a crossroads and she was really having a hard time making this decision. And then she came one day and she said, I understand that it’s wrong and I understand, you know, that I need to switch, but I just can’t.

[Cleverson]

Oh, wow.

[Stefanie]

So it’s very difficult.

[Cleverson]

Yeah, it’s because also, for example, they are very receptive. You can talk with them for an hour, for two hours without any problem. And when I open the Bible and tell them, Listen, the Bible, for example, says that there’s only one mediator, and that mediator is Jesus Christ, not Mary. Amen. And when I show that, they now, we, okay, let’s open the Bible. So I open their own Bible and normally ask for them to read their Bible for them to see that’s not my words, it’s the Bible words. And when they start to read it, they, whoa, I never see this before. The problem is because the Catholic is so strong, basically the entire family, they don’t want to leave that, and sometimes they understand but they think they still can receive their salvation by doing something. And when he explained that that’s not possible, they still, well… Thank you for telling me that. I understand, but I am going to continue with my church. It’s like the father passed to the son, the son passed for the next generation, and they keep going, doing exactly the same thing, without questioning if it’s correct or not.

[Jay]

That’s true. We go witnessing on the weekends, and MCG goes during the week as well, and without fail, almost every time, Religious people, particularly Catholics, are the hardest to even engage at the door. It’s almost like they’ve been inoculated against any other type of outreach before you can say anything. Just like you said, Cleverson, you know, I have my religion. I hear what you’re saying. Thank you for sharing it with me, but I’m sticking to my church. And sometimes that’s a difficult barrier to remove. Thankfully, it’s the Lord who does the work, and you’re there on the field talking to people day in and day out, doing the hard work of patiently talking to them and showing them from the scriptures what thus saith the Lord. Praise God for that.

[MCG]

Yeah, definitely. What are some things folks should keep in mind if they feel called to serve the Lord in Dominican Republic?

[Stefanie]

It’s not going to be as easy as you think it is. A lot of people think, you know, it’s easy and it’s a paradise, but it’s a totally different culture. a very different culture, while the people are very friendly and receptive, whatever, they will only let you get so close. So it’s very difficult to build enduring friendships, close friendships. But once you’re in, you’re in, you know? So it’s a lot of hard work. And you have to be willing to adapt to the culture. and to be patient, because they are not like Americans, whereas we’re trying to get as many things done in one day as we possibly can. If they see somebody — if they’re driving down the street and they see somebody that they know, they’re going to stop the car and they’re going to talk to them. and you are going to be behind them, and you’re going to have to wait patiently while they talk to them. You cannot go around them, and you cannot beep your horn at them, and you cannot get mad because, first off, they’re going to be annoyed by the fact that you’re annoyed. Like, why are you annoyed? What am I doing wrong? So that’s a lot of Americans have given us a bad rep down there simply because of that, because they refuse to adapt to the culture.

[Cleverson]

Well, adapt to the culture is another thing. When they saw you, they immediately know that you’re foreign and they try to speak English with you. When they see that we also speak Spanish, They do not know you speak Spanish. They say, well, you start speaking English, I’m trying to speak English with you. But when they realize that you speak Spanish, they change because you are trying to understand their culture. You’re trying to see the way they do. And that opened. a lot of doors. What do we do? We try to understand their culture speaking, the way they do things, the way they think, why they do the way they do. And this adaption help us to break some barriers with them. Right. Because they start to see that, well, this foreign is not just here, but they try to understand our language, try to understand the way we do. So the relationship start to be better and they start to trust you. and they start to open more and be more friendly. We have, for example, a neighbor. She lives based in front of us, and we met her. We start to talk with her, invite her, and she opened the door for us for a public school where we can have opportunity to talk with the kids. what we want. Like 1200 kids that we have the opportunity to talk with them, teach them, and do what we want. So it’s basically an incredible opportunity to teach these kids. the new generation to know better Christ and what the Bible says. And for example, we live in La Vega to Puerto Plata is two hours driving. So we call her, We are going to Puerto Plata, want to go with us? And she let’s go. That is the kind of relationship that we have opportunity when they start to know that we try to do the way they do. So speak the language is fundamental and understand the way they do things.

[MCG]

The next question I have in mind is that I’m sure it’s pretty unique because usually we have an American couple leaving to go to the foreign field, but now we have a second generation missionary. And then of course, missionary kids don’t really have a culture or they have a dual culture. And then we have you, Cleverson, with the Brazilian culture. Talk about culture in the broader sense, because I’m sure you’re talking about the culture between you and your wife, and then also adapting or even assimilating to the Dominican Republic culture, how do How do you handle the difference in all these cultures? Because how do you even define yourself culturally? I guess should be the question.

[Cleverson]

It is sometimes a little complicated.

[Stefanie]

You should feel sorry for our kids.

[MCG]

Well, that’s true. That’s true.

[Cleverson]

They’re the ones who are like, What is happening? The thing is, I try to adapt to where I am at the moment.

[MCG]

Hence the reason why you say soccer, not football.

[Cleverson]

Yes. After that.

[MCG]

I guess I’ll forgive you.

[Cleverson]

In Dominican, I say football all the time. In Brazil, same thing. Come here, United States, let me change my mind here. For example, because I have the three culture in my mind, I always try to do, for example, if United States, I try to act the way that culturally speaking is here. Brazil, same thing, and Dominican, same thing. Sometimes I do altogether. Sometimes I remember I was preaching and then I speak something that is not the language I’m preaching. And I start to laugh and say, I’m so sorry. That’s because I was thinking something. So I would say help me with a lot because I have more knowledge that most normal people have. I have to understand the way some people act, the way they act. why they say what they say. But it is also a privilege because it’s not normal to have so many opportunities like that. And I have the opportunity for the three language. For me, it’s a great privilege. And I personally like it. And I try to use both. I use every similarity in every culture that I can in all the three cultures. And I use, for example, a little bit here, a little bit there, a little bit each one. And I try to do the way that is better.

[Stefanie]

But I would say the Brazilian culture prepared us the most for being there. They eat a lot of the same foods. They, you know, when you would come into a store, you come into a home, you will greet everyone. You will say hello, you will hug them, give them a kiss. Whereas in America, you know, we’re just trying to get things done, you know? And so if we walk into church and we walk by the first 10 pews and don’t say hello to everybody, no one’s going to think anything of it. Right. But in Brazil and in the Dominican Republic, that would be terrible, you know? And so that has definitely prepared us for living down there. Also the time thing, you know, where in Brazil also, they’re not worried about the time so much. They’re becoming more so worried about the time, but you know, it’s relationship oriented, not time oriented, right?

[Jay]

That can create some barriers if you unintentionally create an offense because let’s say you’re behind someone that happened to stop in their car to talk to someone and you get impatient, or maybe you walk into the church and you’re accustomed to just going to your pew and not really stopping to greet every single person on your way there. I can see how little things like that might create small offenses or maybe barriers to the gospel, but thankfully the Lord prepared you for that. I wonder if that’s the same when you’re sharing the gospel, because you know how like when you talk to some people, and they have absolutely no idea about what sin is. They don’t know who God is. You have to start at ground zero with them. And then there are other people who have a religious background where they understand who God is. They probably know what sin is. Do you find that when you talk to people, they generally have a background that helps you share the gospel a little bit easier, where you don’t have to go back to creation to explain things? Or do you find that the Dominican Republic is increasingly becoming secular, and when you talk to people, you have to kind of start at ground zero.

[Cleverson]

Normally, they’re not going to ground zero. Normally, they have some knowledge. They knew something. Actually, in fact, several can say several verses of the Bible, not one or two, like John 3.16, the most famous. They know more than that. But the problem is a lacking of knowledge, a lacking of put everything together. lacking to understand the doctrine. And when you show, for example, I normally like to talk with them about sin in this way, Are you a sinner? They’re going to say, Yes. Is your friend a sinner? Yes. Now, is a Pope a sinner? You know, that’s a man in charge from the Catholic. And they say, Yes, he is. That surprised me. Now, because the Dominicans, one thing that I always like to say they have, I incredible respect for pastors. Pastors, normally, they have a higher level of respect. And I was talking to this man to explain about sin, and then he asked all these things. And then I said, Well, are you a sinner? Yes, I am. And then I finally, How about me? I am a sinner? And he, No, you’re not. Whoa, why not? And I remembered that pastors are in higher level. So they obey, they do not going to say any words against the pastor. If the pastor say something, they’re going to obey exact the way the pastor saying. Then I said, well, Romans 3:23 said that all are sinners. What the word all means? It’s all means all. And I said, well, if all means all, that means is an exception now. So I go through the way And I have to repeat sometimes the same explanation twice or three times, because Dominicans is the way they do. You say something and then they have to repeat something, the same thing you said, for them to basically understand very well. Then when I repeat everything, and then I say, Well, all these things you hear, am I a sinner? And he thinking, thinking, Yes, you are. Like he regretting to say that. Now, they have some knowledge, but a lacking of understanding. What I normally do is several knows a lot. When they know much more the Bible, I do a different approach. I go more to see that religious people, like in Acts 17, that they adore someone, they have no idea what they are adoring. I’m showing them that what we have to adore is not something that they think is just Jesus Christ, the only Savior. And when they explain these things, they start to understand very well. Although, the thing returns, they don’t want to change their life, because they understand that, make decision, It’s a transformation of everything, relationship, church, what they do. And most of them, they are not have the desire to change. They’re close, close to be there, but they decide to keep their tradition.

[MCG]

What are some needs that, if they should be filled, would make your task of sharing the gospel much easier in the Dominican Republic?

[Stefanie]

We need a church property desperately and we’re looking. Prices have really gone up because the foreigners coming in and a church van would be really nice because right now we’re using all the cars available to us and just filling them up as much as we can, you know, ’cause there, if it’s a car for five people, you’re not gonna just put five people in and they don’t care, you know, and especially when they find out that you’re going to church, no one’s gonna stop you. So, you know, if we could have a church van, that would be super.

[Cleverson]

Like, we basically are the only church in the area work with kids. We do like a one club, the same thing that I learned when I accept Christ. But we need, we don’t have space for that. And sometimes we have like 20, 30, 40 kids. Oh, wow. Yeah. We don’t have space. Actually, we rent a house. that we transformed the house in church. Now, if you look outside the house, the house looks like a church. It’s wonderful that thing, but we use the rooms we can, but for example, we have to have games with the kids. We don’t have space to do everything. So we do the way we can. If you have a field that we are praying that God help us for the field, that’s going to help. That will be a tremendous way that is growing because Dominicans, they love the way that we treat the kids because we made the kids very comfortable. They come to us, we have fun with them, we play with them, we teach them, and then when they return to the home, they change their behavior because they’re learning with us There are time for play, there are time to be quiet, so they start to learn these things and in home their life is different. So it’s the way that we can approach to the parents, because normally kids come to the church, then the mom and then the father. It is not normally that dad come. I see. Dominicans have this way, so we have a huge opportunity to play with these kids. So that’s gonna be very helpful if you have that.

[Jay]

Is there anything that the church in the United States is doing that trickles down and makes your task of sharing the gospel more difficult in the Dominican Republic?

[Stefanie]

Yes, and it seems crazy, but a lot of churches come down and they’ll just give them money and they’ll give them things. And so then when they come to us, they’re like, well, what do you have to give me? Oh. And so they’re looking, because we’re foreigners, they’re looking for us to give them things. And so, you know, trying to teach them that that’s not what we’re there for.

[Jay]

Right.

[Stefanie]

We’re not rich Americans. We’re there to tell them about the gospel. And so you have other churches that are giving them all sorts of things, you know, backpacks and money and tablets sometimes, things like that. And so you’re competing with these churches for these kids’ attention.

[Jay]

I see.

[Stefanie]

So it can be a little frustrating sometimes.

[Jay]

At the church I used to go to down in Florida, the preacher said something similar. He said, one of the mistakes that some people do when they go to different countries and they’re missionaries, or even if they’re just going on a missions trip, is that they’ll hand out all of this stuff, whether it’s food or water or services or whatever it is. And the people come to the church for the stuff, but they don’t come for Christ. And it makes it more difficult to share the gospel with them, because if you just come with the gospel, they’re going to look at you like, okay, but this guy over here is giving me tablets or whatever, and it makes it difficult to share the gospel. So when you said that, that brought that to mind. That can be a real problem. And it’s sad because people that are on missions trips or maybe even missionaries, they might think they’re doing a good thing. They might think they’re doing a helpful thing, but it turns out to have the opposite effect.

[Stefanie]

Another big thing that we have had happen is that people will come down for a missions trip and a thousand people will get saved. And unfortunately, these people they just, they’re just doing it to please the people that are there. They’re doing it because it’s easy, but they don’t follow up. They don’t go to church. They don’t have a Bible study. And so a lot of times what happens is they’ve just made them a twofold more child of hell. It’s very frustrating as well, you know, so, and we have churches that’ll say, you know, Why don’t we see more fruit? Why isn’t, you know, why aren’t people getting saved? And we’ll tell them, you know, it’s our job to tell them the gospel, but they’re not unlike the states in that they’re not willing to change their life for the gospel. And so you’re not going to see that. thousands of people come to Christ and in one week, you know, it’s gonna take time. It’s gonna take you building relationships with them. And so, you know, the fruit is the Lord’s, you know, when his Holy Spirit is working and when they’re willing to have the Holy Spirit work. And so it’s just our job to be faithful to be faithful.

[Jay]

Amen.

[MCG]

Well, why don’t we go on a little bit of break and then we come back on the other side and we’ll continue learning more about your mission field. You’re listening to the Moving virus podcast. We’re sitting down with Cleverson and it’s lovely I’m your wife, Stefanie, and you’re learning all about the mission field to the Dominican Republic. We’ll be right back.

[Jay]

Are you looking for a consistent and reliable place to get all your Christian materials? Try christianbook.com. Started from humble beginnings in 1978, christianbook.com now offers a wide range of books, CDs, DVDs, homeschooling, and church supplies, plus more. So whether you are a parent, schooler, a pastor, or a layperson, ChristianBook.com can be a one-stop shop for all your needs. Click the link in the description section below and check out the vast array of Christian materials ChristianBook.com has to offer. Hi, this is Jay. MCG and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to RemovingBarriers.net and subscribing to receive all things Removing Barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at removingbarriers.net/donate. Removing barriers, a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

All right, Stefanie, Cleverson, let’s go into a little bit of a fun section and find out some of your favorites. Let’s start with your favorite scripture verse.

[Stefanie]

2-4, When you walk through the waters, I will be with you. When you pass through the floods, it will not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be consumed. You know, and that leads into my favorite hymn, which is How Firm a Foundation. where there’s nothing that we’ll go through that he’s not there with us and that he’s holding us through the whole thing amen.

[MCG]

What about you clever thing?

[Cleverson]

Well I have 1 Samuel 12:24 only fear the Lord and serve him in truth with all your heart for consider how great thing he has done for you amen.

[Jay]

What is your favorite historical biblical account? Some people call them Bible stories, where we like to put the historical biblical account in there because these things actually happen and it’s actually history. So what would be your favorite, Claverson?

[Cleverson]

I would say two.

[Jay]

Okay.

[Cleverson]

Joseph and Joshua. Joseph, he has incredible history. And Joshua, he’s a conqueror. So I love to see the way that he conducted everything, and he was always faithful.

[MCG]

Amen.

[Jay]

Stefanie.

[Stefanie]

And for me, it would be Ruth, because she left everything to go to a country that she didn’t know to serve the Lord and to be with her mother-in-law and to help her mother-in-law. And it’s a challenge to me to be willing to be used as the Lord in wherever he places me.

[MCG]

Amen. What about the most convicting scripture passage to you?

[Stefanie]

It would be Ruth again.

[MCG]

Okay, cool.

[Stefanie]

It’s a challenge to me. You know, sometimes it’s hard because I’m in the Dominican Republic with my immediate family, and my brother and sister-in-law are two hours away in Puerto Plata. My sister and her husband used to live there, but had to leave for health purposes. And we had really good friends in Puerto Plata. You know, the church was growing, and the people had let us in, and we had developed really strong friendships. And then we moved to La Vega, and the Lord had to be enough for me. And it reminded me of Ruth and how, you know, she was willing to leave everything that she knew behind. and go where the Lord wanted her to go.

[MCG]

Yeah, we are creatures of comfort, huh?

[Stefanie]

Absolutely.

[MCG]

Cleverson.

[Cleverson]

I go with both the same. Joseph said, for them, Joseph, because Joseph Ebishad, the way that God prepared him, and a lot of things that not Joseph’s time, but God’s time. And a lot of things that he was be able to wait on him. able to wait to what God want to him and finally he did everything he did the wisdom he had and everything that he restore his family and also take care of the world was incredible way that he took trust his life and to do what God wanted him to do. Joshua conquered the Promised Land. He did a tremendous privilege because Moses was the best for the Israel, the great one. And then imagining he followed Moses was hard.

[Jay]

Right. Big shoes to fill, right?

[Cleverson]

The people were like our people here today. The same thing did not change. And I just add Paul. because Paul, he started to go to several places, as no one had been in several places at the world at the moment. And he was there to preach the gospel. And for example, when we moved, as Stefanie said, the north, the island to the center, we know no one in that place. No one. We just came to a place that we thought that God direct us and we start for nothing. Today we have a church there. It’s the way that Paul did in several places. So it’s incredible to see incredible example of the Bible applying for us today and we see how the Bible is true and how the Bible can help us to live the way that God wants.

[Jay]

Which scriptures do you find the most comfort in? What are the most comforting scriptures for you?

[Cleverson]

I don’t have like a special like that.

[Jay]

Does it change depending on your situation or?

[Cleverson]

Yeah, because I love to read several places, like Genesis stories is amazing to see it. Joshua, some of the kings, the way that they follow or not, for example, when the king was facing the battle and then he has, Well, the army’s coming. What are you going to do with the army? We have not to do. And he said just, Our eyes are only on you, Lord. I don’t know what to do, but I’m seeking you. They have a lot of examples, the things for me. For a book that I love is Philippians. Philippians is very similar to Joshua, conquering. You continue your step in the Lord, show you want to do progress, spiritually speaking. So I always like to think like that and see the way that God can do things.

[MCG]

How about you, Stefanie?

[Stefanie]

For me, it would also be a lot of different ones for different things, but Psalm 100 is probably my favorite because I love to sing. I’m always either singing or humming or making some kind of noise. You know, even I can remember when the wall came down. at the neighbor’s house, between us and the neighbor’s house in Brazil. There was a lot of flooding and the water had built up and it brought down the wall and the water all came into our house. and we were cleaning it, and I was singing Rejoice in the Lord. And my mom told me later that it was really irritating her, singing Rejoice in the Lord at that particular.

[Jay]

Moment. Well, your home is flooded.

[Stefanie]

But, you know, being able to turn to those songs and things is a comfort to me, and to know that the scripture says for us to sing, you know, even in those hard times, so yeah.

[MCG]

Amen. Yeah, definitely. Well, Cleverson, the Bible says, Make a joyful noise unto the Lord. What is your favorite hymn of the faith? What do you like to make a joyful noise with?

[Cleverson]

Well, now it’s a very good question. If you ask my wife, she’s going to say a hundred songs. She’s a singer. She sings everywhere. But in Portuguese, I love one who said that we have to look at Christ. He’s the author and consumer of our faith. And it’s similar to the Philippians. So in English, there’s one that is 443, do you remember 443, the book that they had?

[Jay]

We kind of have you translating on the spot.

[MCG]

Sound like a true song leader. 443.

[Cleverson]

I’m not like someone who remembers the songs And sometimes when they hear the song, oh, I like that.

[Jay]

Right, right.

[Cleverson]

This don’t call my attention. And I’m not like that. I just love several, and I do not have in my mind when they come. But like my wife, oh, she’s great. She knows.

[MCG]

And you said for you, Stefanie, is How Firm a Foundation?

[Stefanie]

How Firm a Foundation, I think it would be my favorite hymn. My favorite song maybe would be Shout to the Lord.

[Jay]

Oh, okay.

[Stefanie]

But I love Majesty Music, Psalm 23. So I think it’s all about the Lord being with you, actually.

[Jay]

That’s a recurring theme in your answers. I’ve noticed that. What about your favorite giant of the faith?

[Cleverson]

Bo, Joshua.

[Jay]

Okay. What about you, Stefanie?

[Stefanie]

You know, I think I would say Josiah, King Josiah.

[Jay]

Oh, I don’t think we’ve gotten King Josiah yet on this podcast. That’s a new one. Yeah.

[Stefanie]

Well, he had no background in serving the Lord, you know, and He turned his life around just because he read the scriptures and he decided he would be changing himself and he would try to change the nation. And I think that’s amazing. I think that’s, you know, I hate that he lost all three of his sons, but, you know, he did the best that he could as soon as he knew to do it.

[Jay]

Amen.

[MCG]

Amen. All right, what would you say are some of the biggest barriers to the people of Dominican Republic from receiving the gospel?

[Cleverson]

The religions.

[Stefanie]

Yeah, thinking that they can do it by words.

[Cleverson]

The religions, they really take by heart that they are saved. Then they say, we are Christian. We are Christian Asian. And Satan is work so hard with this that they don’t see it. They need Christ, not church. the religious people, they think that everything is fine with their life. So I would say that’s a tremendous barrier with them because it is not easy to turn past that. It is not simple to show. For example, I had the opportunity to talk with the teachers from the public school once a month for one hour and the workers. So after the public school, we have once a month, I talk with them for one hour. For 40 minutes, I preach the gospel. In 20 minutes, I answer the question. And their question always is about what can we do to be safe? So they’re religious people think the salvation by works. It’s not easy take out their mind, the situation.

[Stefanie]

But I would also say that they’re looking to improve their lives. So they’re working a lot. They’re looking for jobs that are going to give them more money or a second job to help provide. Or they’re playing baseball, waking up at the crack of dawn to play baseball. As soon as they get out of school, go play baseball. And so trying to find the time where we can invest in them. you know, because they’re seeking, seeking, seeking after, you know, money or jobs or baseball or whatever they can to improve their life and just finding some time in their schedule where we can talk to them about the gospel.

[MCG]

Is baseball their maybe way of maybe hoping to make it big so they can get to the US and play baseball here?

[Stefanie]

Yes.

[Cleverson]

It’s like their dream they very early and like we had a guy from our church he was 21 22 years old and he should try to come to United States to play baseball because they think if you have opportunity to come they going to be rich and they can help their family right so it’s their dream.

[MCG]

How would you say those barriers can be removed, the barriers of religion, the barriers of wanting to, which is not necessarily a bad thing, to provide better for their families? What would you say, how can those barriers be removed?

[Stefanie]

Patience and consistency. Just continuing to show up and try to talk to them and, you know, just praying for them. You know, just waiting on the Lord to provide the opportunities.

[Cleverson]

Yeah, we try to make a relationship with them. We invite them to come to our homes. We invite them for dinner. We invite them for games, night, relationship. For they see that Christians, not just the people who like church, church, church, church. So they see that we have, we do things with normal people. The difference is that we have Christ inside us that they know How we act, because we act. So make the relationships also with them with this help a lot because they see it. They’re there to see it. For example, a very simple, they have football class. Yeah.

[MCG]

You got it, you got it.

[Cleverson]

When they played there, we had three boys. The three boys of us are playing with them. All of them speak bad words, but when the boys are there, they say, No, no, don’t say that in front of them. because they understand that my boys are not going to say bad words and they understand that they respect that because they’re making relationship with that and they start to change here there so that’s a great way to broke that barrier amen amen.

[MCG]

Well, Cleverson, Stefanie, it was indeed a pleasure. Thank you for joining us on the Removing Barriers podcast.

[Stefanie]

Thanks for having us.

[Cleverson]

Thank you very much. Appreciate you guys.

[Jay]

Thank you so much for listening to the Removing Barriers podcast. Make sure to rate us everywhere you listen to podcasts, including Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or Stitcher. Removing Barriers, a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

Thank you for listening. To get a hold of us, To support this podcast or to learn more about removing barriers, go to removingbarriers.net. This has been the Removing Barriers podcast. We attempted to remove barriers so that we all can have a clear view of the cross.

[Cleverson]

They really think by heart that they are saved. Then they say, we are Christian. We are Christian Asian. And Satan is work so hard with this that they don’t see it. They need Christ, not church.

[Jay]

Thank you for tuning in to the Removing Barriers Podcast. I’m Jay and I’m MCG. And we’re attempting to remove barriers so we can all have a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

This is episode 237 of the Removing Barriers Podcast. And this is the 30th in the series of On the Mission Field. And in this episode, we’ll be going on the mission field with Missionary Cleverson and Stefanie Faria to the Dominican Republic. Cleverson, Stefanie, welcome to the Removing Barriers podcast.

[Cleverson]

Thank you very much. We appreciate the opportunity.

[MCG]

Great. And I’m so glad you’re here, Stefanie, because we don’t usually get the wives. So you are one of few that have joined their husband on one of these episodes?

[Stefanie]

Oh, neat. I’m glad to be here.

[MCG]

Great.

[Jay]

Hi, this is Jay. MCG and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to removingbarriers.net and subscribing to receive all things removing barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at removingbarriers.net/donate. Removing barriers. A clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

All right. Well, Stefanie, Cleverson, tell us about your calling, your family, whatever you want to share with the internet.

[Cleverson]

Well, I am Brazilian, born in Brazil, and accepted Christ with 11 years old.

[MCG]

Amen.

[Cleverson]

By Awana Club. And in Brazil, most people love to play soccer. And I was playing soccer, and the Bible students from the Bible college passing by invited me to Awana Club. At the first, I said no, because I was playing soccer, so not better than I shall play soccer, but they insist, and after a while, I decide to go, and I love it. The Awana Club is returning every Saturday after a month. I understood that, I thought actually that because my parents were to the church before, I thought that I was Christian. So when I understood that now, I was not saved, I had to make my own decision. So I understood that gospel and accept Christ as my Savior, my Lord, 11 years old, and then God started to change my life. So I think the best decision I ever made when that happened, and since then, following the Lord’s path. And God is being very grateful with that.

[MCG]

Amen. Before you jump in, Stefanie, I need to correct Cleverson on something. I know in Brazil that you all don’t call it soccer. You call it football. Just like us from the Caribbean, we call it football. So would you mind correcting that for the audience, please?

[Cleverson]

Well, that is a great thing. I never call soccer, never. But because in America, They say soccer. So I have to say that. Unfortunately, because for us, it’s football. That’s what it is. It’s football. We grow up in football. But because America is the only country who call football soccer, well, I have to adapt.

[MCG]

Well, I make fun of them because I said to them, how can a sport that you use primarily with your hand be football? And the sport that you use primarily with your feet be something else.

[Cleverson]

That is perfect. That’s perfect. But you know, Americans don’t like that, so…

[MCG]

Okay.

[Cleverson]

We must do the way.

[MCG]

I won’t cause any more trouble. Stefanie, why don’t you tell us about your testimony?

[Stefanie]

When I was four years old, my parents were called to go to Brazil as missionaries. And it was hard for me because my grandmother picked me up every day from school and took me out to eat and then we would go to her house and I got to spend the entire day with her. And so having to leave her behind was super hard for me. And when we moved there, it was really easy for me to learn Portuguese because I was only five years old. And I would play out on the street with all the kids and ride my bike. And so I learned the language within a month. And as we were at church one night, the lady was teaching on sin and on hell. and how we would go to hell because of our sins and that our parents’ decisions or the things that our parents had done would not gain salvation for us. And I was so very offended by that because I had given up time with my grandma and my granddaddy, and I had given up Taco Bell and all the comforts of the United States. And I just couldn’t understand how that could possibly be. And so that night when my parents sent me to bed, I started to talk to them about it. And I was like, Do you know what she said tonight? And they were like, Well, that’s true. Stefanie, nothing that we do can save you. And so they told me the gospel again, and I got saved that night. And growing up in Brazil, I mean, I loved everything about growing up in Brazil. And we lived in a big city, Curitiba, and so there were several missionaries there, so there was a missionary school there. And pretty much all of us just assumed that we would be going back as missionaries to Brazil. And so I can’t say that I had a moment where I felt the Lord calling me to missions. always knew I would end up on the mission field.

[MCG]

All right. Well, before I let my wife jump in, why don’t you tell us how you guys met and how this beautiful love story came into being?

[Stefanie]

I tell it better. For sure.

[MCG]

The ladies always do.

[Stefanie]

Yeah, for sure. So he was the president of the youth group at our church, and I was the shy bookworm. You know, I would open up when I was around my friends, but if I was in a large group, I was very shy and quiet. And so I tried to stay as far away from him as I possibly could. And when I graduated from high school, I stayed in Brazil a year and did Bible college for a year at the Bible college down there. And I had to be paired with somebody for Christian service. And for Christian service, we had to do three hours on Saturdays of evangelism and three hours of discipleship on Sunday afternoons. And my dad was in charge of pairing us. And I I told him, Listen, anybody but Cleverson, okay? Please don’t put me with him. I cannot spend that much time with him. And so when he came home that night, he was not trying to talk to me. He was trying to stay away from me. And I was like, so I went up to him and I said, You did not. You did not do that to me. He said, There was no one else to pair you with. So I had to pair you with him. And he says that we went out winning souls and then he won me over little by little along the way.

[MCG]

Oh, amen.

[Jay]

That’s so sweet. Now, just so that I understand clearly, Claverson, the church where they invited you to Ulmana, is that the very same church that you joined after salvation and you were discipled and now you’re the president of the youth group or is this a different church that you all met in?

[Cleverson]

Well, that’s a different church. I grew up in this church that accept Christ, who had Awana Club. My parents moved from the area to another area after, I would say, three or four years.

[Jay]

Okay. Understood.

[Cleverson]

And after that, I started to go to the church. Her dad was a pastor.

[Jay]

Right.

[Cleverson]

And then everything else happened the way she said.

[Jay]

That’s awesome. Can you tell us a little more about how the Lord worked on your heart to increase your interest and your desire to go to the mission field?

[Cleverson]

What happened was this, when I accepted Christ, I immediately knew that God wanted me to do something more than just go to the church. And I was like super active at the church, started teaching very soon. Like the first time I preached at the church, I was 13 years old. Oh wow. And I was so small guy that only my head, you can see from the pulpit. So when I was 14 years old, I started to grow and I passed everybody. That started to be normal for me. Then in my mind, I’m going to be a pastor in Brazil. That was what I decided. So I went to Bible college to be a pastor in Brazil. And what happened was after three years, I decided that now that’s not what God wants for me. So I graduated early. And for the next three years after that, nothing works well in my life. Everything did not go through. Everything, like I was not doing something wrong. I was not doing something away from the Lord. But I knew that God want me in the ministry. But I decided not to do that. And that three years was a miserable three years. When I finally understood and I surrender my life for that is, let me give very short with this because this is a long story, but shortly for that for understand how God work. For three years nothing happened. nothing about a good job. And finally, in the last year, I found a wonderful job. But that job started to put me away from the Lord. I was still doing everything for the church, like preaching, directing music, teaching Sunday school, everything that the youth people, nothing changed, but my heart was changing. So, one day I woke up in the morning, And my face was one side totally bigger than the normal, like was double face from the comics. It was ridiculous and hurts a lot. And I went to the doctors. I make some tests. I did everything that’s possible. None of the doctors found out what happened. That started February through November, one week. bad and two weeks good. One week bad, two weeks good. All this time, it was a table, and I knew immediately that God was touching me. I looked for doctors, medicine, everything, and none of them couldn’t find what’s going on. One week at the end of November, I was okay. A friend of mine called me and said, Well, how about we go to the pastor’s chief that is Stefanie’s dad? Go there and do a Bible study with him. Let’s go. So we arrived to his home and he, what do you guys want to study? Whatever you want. So I remember that he taught us in Daniel. After one hour, he started to talk with my friend. Well, you have this problem. You have this to fix it, and this, and this, and this. And I thought, That’s correct. This is exactly what you have to fix it. I told you about it. So I was confirmed with that. And then Stefanie’s dad looked at me. After 20 minutes talk with him, looked at me, and then he said, Well, how about you, Cleverson? And my friend now, now it’s your turn, huh? So he stopped for like a minute, said nothing, and oh my. And then he finally, When are you going to return to Bible college? I didn’t answer, and he stopped, said anything else. So after a while, we left his home, and the next time I returned, we had a bad time. And Dr. Billy Martin came to Brazil for the first time. He’s a tremendous man of God. He came to the conference for us in Brazil. conference normally starts Friday to Sunday, but this moment, our church starts Wednesday through Sunday, first time ever. He did the message and her dad started to do an invitation and I was holding the pill for me to not go through the invitation. The reason is, culturally speaking, Brazilians answer invitation normally the last day of the conference. You have the entire conference in the last day, do invitation and everybody go to the front, consecrate the life, change what they need to do. But that first day he started the invitation and keep going, keep going, 10 minutes, he keep going. And I was there, why he did not finish the invitation? And then he kept going. And then I talked to the Lord and said, Well, I surrender. I know that you want me returned. So I went to the front. I said, I have your answer right now. I’m going to return to Bible College next semester. So he gave me a hug that almost destroyed me with his hug. And then I talked to the church, and I returned to Bible College. After that, that sickness never returned. Oh, wow. Never, never. I’ll start, finish, and no one have no idea, never return. So obviously it was God, obviously the way that God used to touch me. But I learned that when we rebellion, it is complicated because God always has His way, and His way is better. So I returned to Bible College, and my idea when I graduate is continued in Brazil. At that time, I remember that I helped to start two churches. So I knew everything from Brazil. I know the language. I do not need to do something different. Well, then I came to U.S. in 2007 when we married, 2007, and our idea is return to Brazil. So we decided, we joined the mission board. But guess what? Nothing happened to receive support to go to Brazil. We have five couples with us at the moment, and none of the five couples are received support to go to Brazil. Oh, wow. Obviously, it was God, one more time, acting in our life. Her dad received an invitation to go to Dominican Republic, and he grew up in Africa, so he don’t want to go to Dominican Republic because he have relationship with Africa in Brazil. but someone insisted and he went to Dominican the first day in Dominican he call me and then he said like something like clever so I don’t want to call your team but you need to come to Dominican my answer no dad I do not go to Dominican and then he every single day he continued to call me and at the last day I I said, finally, a spiritual answer. Let’s pray. And he returned. He continued to talk with me what he saw there. So, we decided to make a mission trip to Dominican. And the first day, I understood why God closed the door to Brazil. Dominicans are very similar to Brazil in several aspects. In others, they are totally different. But I feel basically home in Dominican. And then, When we returned, we decided that God really called us to Dominican, and guess what? Support came. So we moved to Dominican in 2017, and that is what we are doing in Dominican right now. Amen.

[MCG]

Well, let’s get into the Dominican Republic. For those who are not from the Caribbean like I am, tell our listeners, where on the globe is the Dominican Republic?

[Stefanie]

So you have Florida, and then right underneath Florida, you have Cuba. And then right below Cuba and a little bit to the right, you’ll have the island that shared by Haiti and the Dominican Republic. And then Puerto Rico is just below us and a little bit to the right.

[MCG]

All right.

[Jay]

Can you tell us more about the Dominican Republic? Can you tell us about its capital city, the population, the religious makeup? And perhaps you can tell us more about where you are going in particular to, or where you are in the Dominican Republic and where you’re sharing the gospel.

[Cleverson]

Well, we have about almost 12 million our population. Dominican Republic speaks Spanish. There’s another reason that the first, I don’t want to go Dominican because, well, I speak Portuguese very well. I grew up Brazil. I came to United States in 2007 and started to learn English. I should learn English. It’s a very hard language. Oh my, it’s complicated, English in several aspects. And then to learn another language, I was thinking, No, that’s not for me. But you know, God always has something more for us. Right. Now, Dominican, they are Catholic. Most of the population, about 70% of the population, are Catholic. Catholic Church are strong in the island. We share the island with Haiti, the first discover from Christopher Columbus in 1492, and we start our work there in the place called Puerto Plata at the north of the island. We established the first church. Now we start a second church at the center of the island, a place called La Vega. La Vega is about 300, 400,000 inhabitants. And we are basically surrounded by a mountain that protects us for hurricanes or things like very bad in the area, the Caribbean area. But because the Dominicans are very Catholic, the island and most of the people there think they’re Christian. In fact, every time you call with someone, they are very religious people. they call Christian and they’re a proud people to say they’re the only flag in the world who has a Bible in their flag. And what for me is amazing, they’re very proud about the flag, the Bible in their flag. But what is amazing for me is that when I start to talk with them, they have no idea what the Bible says. So that is a little something that is not nice of them. And I would say because the religions, they think they are saves, and especially because Catholic background, salvation by work. So they think so much, they need to go through the Mary, need to go to the Pope, go to the Sacerdot. So it’s something that is a little complicated aspect. They love baseball. They try hard to be professional and come to United States to be professionals, make some money. That’s what they did. They would come early, early to practice baseball. So the island is very receptive. They talk with you without problem. They are not going to reject you, talk about the gospel, very open people. basically their way about Dominican.

[Stefanie]

The capital city is Santo Domingo, and it’s about two hours from us to the south. And it, you know, because it was built so long ago, it was built with smaller roads. And so as it has grown, it has too many people, too many cars. And so they’ve built a monorail, which we’re hoping will help to alleviate some of the traffic there, but for whoever wants to come and visit, we can take you to Diego Columbus’s home. It was destroyed by Sir Francis Drake. It was rebuilt, and so we can take you to see that and the fort. There’s a lot of history, and there are also beautiful beaches all around the island.

[MCG]

Yeah, definitely.

[Jay]

Sounds gorgeous. Now I’m looking at a map of the Dominican Republic. I see Puerto Plata, and I see that Santiago is south of that, and La Vega, that’s where you are now, is that right?

[Cleverson]

Yes.

[Jay]

Right, okay, and that’s south of Santiago. And then it’s almost like you cut the country in half from Puerto Plata down to Santo Domingo, and you’re right there in the middle. And you’re saying there’s a mountain range there that protects you from the crazy hurricanes that come through. So it must be like a tropical paradise living there, except the Catholicism and the spiritual darkness there, would you? Could you say that about sums it up there?

[Cleverson]

Yeah. The only thing also is, for example, people sometimes when they think about Caribbean, as you said, they think about the paradise. In fact, there are wonderful, beautiful places there, but also there are a lot of poverty. There are people there, for example, in our first year, we arrived September 2017. November, we received a huge hurricane that we received the effects. They do not touch our side. Sometimes they touch the other side of the island, Haiti, but the base don’t touch Dominican. But we received like a lot of raining. And the raining made-up a lot of flood, the island. And we went to help some of our people. And some of our people, their houses, for example, have no floors. Oh, wow. Some of them have no windows or electricity. Most people think about Dominican, they think the paradise, but it is half and a half. There are wonderful places, wonderful houses, also very poor people. And that is not showing. The people do not like to show that area. I normally, I like to show everything because when the people visit us, I take them to the places that are very poor and they are shocked. They think, well, I don’t expect that. Well, the reality of the island is that there’s not only beautiful places, but also places that are not nicest. And another thing is because we share the island with Haiti, we have some problems between the two nations. It’s complicated relationship between both, and sometimes it starts to be more dramatic than normal. God is good and God is taking care of the things over there.

[MCG]

How close is Spanish to Portuguese? How difficult was it for you to learn it? Both of you, how difficult was it for you to transition into Spanish?

[Stefanie]

So the Portuguese really helped to understand and to speak Spanish. They say it all the time with a different accent. So you’ll put the accent in a different part of the word. But sometimes Portuguese is just different enough to really trip you up. Right. But it really has been a big help. They’ll come to me and they’ll say, How do you know these big words? That’s because I speak Portuguese. That’s not the Spanish.

[Jay]

Awesome. Now, you mentioned how a majority of the island, well, a majority of the country is Catholic, and there is quite a bit of poverty there, so I imagine that families ties would be really strong, especially if, you know, if you’re going through that kind of life together and you have that strong Catholic bond, typically in Catholicism, you have that very strong, it’s not just a religion, it’s more cultural as well. When you talk to people about the Lord and about what salvation actually means, do you find that they’re receptive to the gospel, but they’re afraid perhaps of, you know, leaving the family culturally, leaving the Catholicism culturally, or do you find that people have no problems separating the two and receiving the gospel.

[Stefanie]

Yes, in fact, our teammates, the neighbor was Catholic. And so she was doing a Bible study with her because she really was seeking. But when she realized that she was going to have to turn her back on the Catholic Church, and that they would then turn their back on her. She realized that she’d be leaving her entire family, her entire, you know, everything that she had ever known. She had to come to a point where she made a decision. And our teammate said, you know, you could see that she was really at a crossroads and she was really having a hard time making this decision. And then she came one day and she said, I understand that it’s wrong and I understand, you know, that I need to switch, but I just can’t.

[Cleverson]

Oh, wow.

[Stefanie]

So it’s very difficult.

[Cleverson]

Yeah, it’s because also, for example, they are very receptive. You can talk with them for an hour, for two hours without any problem. And when I open the Bible and tell them, Listen, the Bible, for example, says that there’s only one mediator, and that mediator is Jesus Christ, not Mary. Amen. And when I show that, they now, we, okay, let’s open the Bible. So I open their own Bible and normally ask for them to read their Bible for them to see that’s not my words, it’s the Bible words. And when they start to read it, they, whoa, I never see this before. The problem is because the Catholic is so strong, basically the entire family, they don’t want to leave that, and sometimes they understand but they think they still can receive their salvation by doing something. And when he explained that that’s not possible, they still, well… Thank you for telling me that. I understand, but I am going to continue with my church. It’s like the father passed to the son, the son passed for the next generation, and they keep going, doing exactly the same thing, without questioning if it’s correct or not.

[Jay]

That’s true. We go witnessing on the weekends, and MCG goes during the week as well, and without fail, almost every time, Religious people, particularly Catholics, are the hardest to even engage at the door. It’s almost like they’ve been inoculated against any other type of outreach before you can say anything. Just like you said, Cleverson, you know, I have my religion. I hear what you’re saying. Thank you for sharing it with me, but I’m sticking to my church. And sometimes that’s a difficult barrier to remove. Thankfully, it’s the Lord who does the work, and you’re there on the field talking to people day in and day out, doing the hard work of patiently talking to them and showing them from the scriptures what thus saith the Lord. Praise God for that.

[MCG]

Yeah, definitely. What are some things folks should keep in mind if they feel called to serve the Lord in Dominican Republic?

[Stefanie]

It’s not going to be as easy as you think it is. A lot of people think, you know, it’s easy and it’s a paradise, but it’s a totally different culture. a very different culture, while the people are very friendly and receptive, whatever, they will only let you get so close. So it’s very difficult to build enduring friendships, close friendships. But once you’re in, you’re in, you know? So it’s a lot of hard work. And you have to be willing to adapt to the culture. and to be patient, because they are not like Americans, whereas we’re trying to get as many things done in one day as we possibly can. If they see somebody — if they’re driving down the street and they see somebody that they know, they’re going to stop the car and they’re going to talk to them. and you are going to be behind them, and you’re going to have to wait patiently while they talk to them. You cannot go around them, and you cannot beep your horn at them, and you cannot get mad because, first off, they’re going to be annoyed by the fact that you’re annoyed. Like, why are you annoyed? What am I doing wrong? So that’s a lot of Americans have given us a bad rep down there simply because of that, because they refuse to adapt to the culture.

[Cleverson]

Well, adapt to the culture is another thing. When they saw you, they immediately know that you’re foreign and they try to speak English with you. When they see that we also speak Spanish, They do not know you speak Spanish. They say, well, you start speaking English, I’m trying to speak English with you. But when they realize that you speak Spanish, they change because you are trying to understand their culture. You’re trying to see the way they do. And that opened. a lot of doors. What do we do? We try to understand their culture speaking, the way they do things, the way they think, why they do the way they do. And this adaption help us to break some barriers with them. Right. Because they start to see that, well, this foreign is not just here, but they try to understand our language, try to understand the way we do. So the relationship start to be better and they start to trust you. and they start to open more and be more friendly. We have, for example, a neighbor. She lives based in front of us, and we met her. We start to talk with her, invite her, and she opened the door for us for a public school where we can have opportunity to talk with the kids. what we want. Like 1200 kids that we have the opportunity to talk with them, teach them, and do what we want. So it’s basically an incredible opportunity to teach these kids. the new generation to know better Christ and what the Bible says. And for example, we live in La Vega to Puerto Plata is two hours driving. So we call her, We are going to Puerto Plata, want to go with us? And she let’s go. That is the kind of relationship that we have opportunity when they start to know that we try to do the way they do. So speak the language is fundamental and understand the way they do things.

[MCG]

The next question I have in mind is that I’m sure it’s pretty unique because usually we have an American couple leaving to go to the foreign field, but now we have a second generation missionary. And then of course, missionary kids don’t really have a culture or they have a dual culture. And then we have you, Cleverson, with the Brazilian culture. Talk about culture in the broader sense, because I’m sure you’re talking about the culture between you and your wife, and then also adapting or even assimilating to the Dominican Republic culture, how do How do you handle the difference in all these cultures? Because how do you even define yourself culturally? I guess should be the question.

[Cleverson]

It is sometimes a little complicated.

[Stefanie]

You should feel sorry for our kids.

[MCG]

Well, that’s true. That’s true.

[Cleverson]

They’re the ones who are like, What is happening? The thing is, I try to adapt to where I am at the moment.

[MCG]

Hence the reason why you say soccer, not football.

[Cleverson]

Yes. After that.

[MCG]

I guess I’ll forgive you.

[Cleverson]

In Dominican, I say football all the time. In Brazil, same thing. Come here, United States, let me change my mind here. For example, because I have the three culture in my mind, I always try to do, for example, if United States, I try to act the way that culturally speaking is here. Brazil, same thing, and Dominican, same thing. Sometimes I do altogether. Sometimes I remember I was preaching and then I speak something that is not the language I’m preaching. And I start to laugh and say, I’m so sorry. That’s because I was thinking something. So I would say help me with a lot because I have more knowledge that most normal people have. I have to understand the way some people act, the way they act. why they say what they say. But it is also a privilege because it’s not normal to have so many opportunities like that. And I have the opportunity for the three language. For me, it’s a great privilege. And I personally like it. And I try to use both. I use every similarity in every culture that I can in all the three cultures. And I use, for example, a little bit here, a little bit there, a little bit each one. And I try to do the way that is better.

[Stefanie]

But I would say the Brazilian culture prepared us the most for being there. They eat a lot of the same foods. They, you know, when you would come into a store, you come into a home, you will greet everyone. You will say hello, you will hug them, give them a kiss. Whereas in America, you know, we’re just trying to get things done, you know? And so if we walk into church and we walk by the first 10 pews and don’t say hello to everybody, no one’s going to think anything of it. Right. But in Brazil and in the Dominican Republic, that would be terrible, you know? And so that has definitely prepared us for living down there. Also the time thing, you know, where in Brazil also, they’re not worried about the time so much. They’re becoming more so worried about the time, but you know, it’s relationship oriented, not time oriented, right?

[Jay]

That can create some barriers if you unintentionally create an offense because let’s say you’re behind someone that happened to stop in their car to talk to someone and you get impatient, or maybe you walk into the church and you’re accustomed to just going to your pew and not really stopping to greet every single person on your way there. I can see how little things like that might create small offenses or maybe barriers to the gospel, but thankfully the Lord prepared you for that. I wonder if that’s the same when you’re sharing the gospel, because you know how like when you talk to some people, and they have absolutely no idea about what sin is. They don’t know who God is. You have to start at ground zero with them. And then there are other people who have a religious background where they understand who God is. They probably know what sin is. Do you find that when you talk to people, they generally have a background that helps you share the gospel a little bit easier, where you don’t have to go back to creation to explain things? Or do you find that the Dominican Republic is increasingly becoming secular, and when you talk to people, you have to kind of start at ground zero.

[Cleverson]

Normally, they’re not going to ground zero. Normally, they have some knowledge. They knew something. Actually, in fact, several can say several verses of the Bible, not one or two, like John 3.16, the most famous. They know more than that. But the problem is a lacking of knowledge, a lacking of put everything together. lacking to understand the doctrine. And when you show, for example, I normally like to talk with them about sin in this way, Are you a sinner? They’re going to say, Yes. Is your friend a sinner? Yes. Now, is a Pope a sinner? You know, that’s a man in charge from the Catholic. And they say, Yes, he is. That surprised me. Now, because the Dominicans, one thing that I always like to say they have, I incredible respect for pastors. Pastors, normally, they have a higher level of respect. And I was talking to this man to explain about sin, and then he asked all these things. And then I said, Well, are you a sinner? Yes, I am. And then I finally, How about me? I am a sinner? And he, No, you’re not. Whoa, why not? And I remembered that pastors are in higher level. So they obey, they do not going to say any words against the pastor. If the pastor say something, they’re going to obey exact the way the pastor saying. Then I said, well, Romans 3:23 said that all are sinners. What the word all means? It’s all means all. And I said, well, if all means all, that means is an exception now. So I go through the way And I have to repeat sometimes the same explanation twice or three times, because Dominicans is the way they do. You say something and then they have to repeat something, the same thing you said, for them to basically understand very well. Then when I repeat everything, and then I say, Well, all these things you hear, am I a sinner? And he thinking, thinking, Yes, you are. Like he regretting to say that. Now, they have some knowledge, but a lacking of understanding. What I normally do is several knows a lot. When they know much more the Bible, I do a different approach. I go more to see that religious people, like in Acts 17, that they adore someone, they have no idea what they are adoring. I’m showing them that what we have to adore is not something that they think is just Jesus Christ, the only Savior. And when they explain these things, they start to understand very well. Although, the thing returns, they don’t want to change their life, because they understand that, make decision, It’s a transformation of everything, relationship, church, what they do. And most of them, they are not have the desire to change. They’re close, close to be there, but they decide to keep their tradition.

[MCG]

What are some needs that, if they should be filled, would make your task of sharing the gospel much easier in the Dominican Republic?

[Stefanie]

We need a church property desperately and we’re looking. Prices have really gone up because the foreigners coming in and a church van would be really nice because right now we’re using all the cars available to us and just filling them up as much as we can, you know, ’cause there, if it’s a car for five people, you’re not gonna just put five people in and they don’t care, you know, and especially when they find out that you’re going to church, no one’s gonna stop you. So, you know, if we could have a church van, that would be super.

[Cleverson]

Like, we basically are the only church in the area work with kids. We do like a one club, the same thing that I learned when I accept Christ. But we need, we don’t have space for that. And sometimes we have like 20, 30, 40 kids. Oh, wow. Yeah. We don’t have space. Actually, we rent a house. that we transformed the house in church. Now, if you look outside the house, the house looks like a church. It’s wonderful that thing, but we use the rooms we can, but for example, we have to have games with the kids. We don’t have space to do everything. So we do the way we can. If you have a field that we are praying that God help us for the field, that’s going to help. That will be a tremendous way that is growing because Dominicans, they love the way that we treat the kids because we made the kids very comfortable. They come to us, we have fun with them, we play with them, we teach them, and then when they return to the home, they change their behavior because they’re learning with us There are time for play, there are time to be quiet, so they start to learn these things and in home their life is different. So it’s the way that we can approach to the parents, because normally kids come to the church, then the mom and then the father. It is not normally that dad come. I see. Dominicans have this way, so we have a huge opportunity to play with these kids. So that’s gonna be very helpful if you have that.

[Jay]

Is there anything that the church in the United States is doing that trickles down and makes your task of sharing the gospel more difficult in the Dominican Republic?

[Stefanie]

Yes, and it seems crazy, but a lot of churches come down and they’ll just give them money and they’ll give them things. And so then when they come to us, they’re like, well, what do you have to give me? Oh. And so they’re looking, because we’re foreigners, they’re looking for us to give them things. And so, you know, trying to teach them that that’s not what we’re there for.

[Jay]

Right.

[Stefanie]

We’re not rich Americans. We’re there to tell them about the gospel. And so you have other churches that are giving them all sorts of things, you know, backpacks and money and tablets sometimes, things like that. And so you’re competing with these churches for these kids’ attention.

[Jay]

I see.

[Stefanie]

So it can be a little frustrating sometimes.

[Jay]

At the church I used to go to down in Florida, the preacher said something similar. He said, one of the mistakes that some people do when they go to different countries and they’re missionaries, or even if they’re just going on a missions trip, is that they’ll hand out all of this stuff, whether it’s food or water or services or whatever it is. And the people come to the church for the stuff, but they don’t come for Christ. And it makes it more difficult to share the gospel with them, because if you just come with the gospel, they’re going to look at you like, okay, but this guy over here is giving me tablets or whatever, and it makes it difficult to share the gospel. So when you said that, that brought that to mind. That can be a real problem. And it’s sad because people that are on missions trips or maybe even missionaries, they might think they’re doing a good thing. They might think they’re doing a helpful thing, but it turns out to have the opposite effect.

[Stefanie]

Another big thing that we have had happen is that people will come down for a missions trip and a thousand people will get saved. And unfortunately, these people they just, they’re just doing it to please the people that are there. They’re doing it because it’s easy, but they don’t follow up. They don’t go to church. They don’t have a Bible study. And so a lot of times what happens is they’ve just made them a twofold more child of hell. It’s very frustrating as well, you know, so, and we have churches that’ll say, you know, Why don’t we see more fruit? Why isn’t, you know, why aren’t people getting saved? And we’ll tell them, you know, it’s our job to tell them the gospel, but they’re not unlike the states in that they’re not willing to change their life for the gospel. And so you’re not going to see that. thousands of people come to Christ and in one week, you know, it’s gonna take time. It’s gonna take you building relationships with them. And so, you know, the fruit is the Lord’s, you know, when his Holy Spirit is working and when they’re willing to have the Holy Spirit work. And so it’s just our job to be faithful to be faithful.

[Jay]

Amen.

[MCG]

Well, why don’t we go on a little bit of break and then we come back on the other side and we’ll continue learning more about your mission field. You’re listening to the Moving virus podcast. We’re sitting down with Cleverson and it’s lovely I’m your wife, Stefanie, and you’re learning all about the mission field to the Dominican Republic. We’ll be right back.

[Jay]

Are you looking for a consistent and reliable place to get all your Christian materials? Try christianbook.com. Started from humble beginnings in 1978, christianbook.com now offers a wide range of books, CDs, DVDs, homeschooling, and church supplies, plus more. So whether you are a parent, schooler, a pastor, or a layperson, ChristianBook.com can be a one-stop shop for all your needs. Click the link in the description section below and check out the vast array of Christian materials ChristianBook.com has to offer. Hi, this is Jay. MCG and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to RemovingBarriers.net and subscribing to receive all things Removing Barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at removingbarriers.net/donate. Removing barriers, a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

All right, Stefanie, Cleverson, let’s go into a little bit of a fun section and find out some of your favorites. Let’s start with your favorite scripture verse.

[Stefanie]

2-4, When you walk through the waters, I will be with you. When you pass through the floods, it will not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be consumed. You know, and that leads into my favorite hymn, which is How Firm a Foundation. where there’s nothing that we’ll go through that he’s not there with us and that he’s holding us through the whole thing amen.

[MCG]

What about you clever thing?

[Cleverson]

Well I have 1 Samuel 12:24 only fear the Lord and serve him in truth with all your heart for consider how great thing he has done for you amen.

[Jay]

What is your favorite historical biblical account? Some people call them Bible stories, where we like to put the historical biblical account in there because these things actually happen and it’s actually history. So what would be your favorite, Claverson?

[Cleverson]

I would say two.

[Jay]

Okay.

[Cleverson]

Joseph and Joshua. Joseph, he has incredible history. And Joshua, he’s a conqueror. So I love to see the way that he conducted everything, and he was always faithful.

[MCG]

Amen.

[Jay]

Stefanie.

[Stefanie]

And for me, it would be Ruth, because she left everything to go to a country that she didn’t know to serve the Lord and to be with her mother-in-law and to help her mother-in-law. And it’s a challenge to me to be willing to be used as the Lord in wherever he places me.

[MCG]

Amen. What about the most convicting scripture passage to you?

[Stefanie]

It would be Ruth again.

[MCG]

Okay, cool.

[Stefanie]

It’s a challenge to me. You know, sometimes it’s hard because I’m in the Dominican Republic with my immediate family, and my brother and sister-in-law are two hours away in Puerto Plata. My sister and her husband used to live there, but had to leave for health purposes. And we had really good friends in Puerto Plata. You know, the church was growing, and the people had let us in, and we had developed really strong friendships. And then we moved to La Vega, and the Lord had to be enough for me. And it reminded me of Ruth and how, you know, she was willing to leave everything that she knew behind. and go where the Lord wanted her to go.

[MCG]

Yeah, we are creatures of comfort, huh?

[Stefanie]

Absolutely.

[MCG]

Cleverson.

[Cleverson]

I go with both the same. Joseph said, for them, Joseph, because Joseph Ebishad, the way that God prepared him, and a lot of things that not Joseph’s time, but God’s time. And a lot of things that he was be able to wait on him. able to wait to what God want to him and finally he did everything he did the wisdom he had and everything that he restore his family and also take care of the world was incredible way that he took trust his life and to do what God wanted him to do. Joshua conquered the Promised Land. He did a tremendous privilege because Moses was the best for the Israel, the great one. And then imagining he followed Moses was hard.

[Jay]

Right. Big shoes to fill, right?

[Cleverson]

The people were like our people here today. The same thing did not change. And I just add Paul. because Paul, he started to go to several places, as no one had been in several places at the world at the moment. And he was there to preach the gospel. And for example, when we moved, as Stefanie said, the north, the island to the center, we know no one in that place. No one. We just came to a place that we thought that God direct us and we start for nothing. Today we have a church there. It’s the way that Paul did in several places. So it’s incredible to see incredible example of the Bible applying for us today and we see how the Bible is true and how the Bible can help us to live the way that God wants.

[Jay]

Which scriptures do you find the most comfort in? What are the most comforting scriptures for you?

[Cleverson]

I don’t have like a special like that.

[Jay]

Does it change depending on your situation or?

[Cleverson]

Yeah, because I love to read several places, like Genesis stories is amazing to see it. Joshua, some of the kings, the way that they follow or not, for example, when the king was facing the battle and then he has, Well, the army’s coming. What are you going to do with the army? We have not to do. And he said just, Our eyes are only on you, Lord. I don’t know what to do, but I’m seeking you. They have a lot of examples, the things for me. For a book that I love is Philippians. Philippians is very similar to Joshua, conquering. You continue your step in the Lord, show you want to do progress, spiritually speaking. So I always like to think like that and see the way that God can do things.

[MCG]

How about you, Stefanie?

[Stefanie]

For me, it would also be a lot of different ones for different things, but Psalm 100 is probably my favorite because I love to sing. I’m always either singing or humming or making some kind of noise. You know, even I can remember when the wall came down. at the neighbor’s house, between us and the neighbor’s house in Brazil. There was a lot of flooding and the water had built up and it brought down the wall and the water all came into our house. and we were cleaning it, and I was singing Rejoice in the Lord. And my mom told me later that it was really irritating her, singing Rejoice in the Lord at that particular.

[Jay]

Moment. Well, your home is flooded.

[Stefanie]

But, you know, being able to turn to those songs and things is a comfort to me, and to know that the scripture says for us to sing, you know, even in those hard times, so yeah.

[MCG]

Amen. Yeah, definitely. Well, Cleverson, the Bible says, Make a joyful noise unto the Lord. What is your favorite hymn of the faith? What do you like to make a joyful noise with?

[Cleverson]

Well, now it’s a very good question. If you ask my wife, she’s going to say a hundred songs. She’s a singer. She sings everywhere. But in Portuguese, I love one who said that we have to look at Christ. He’s the author and consumer of our faith. And it’s similar to the Philippians. So in English, there’s one that is 443, do you remember 443, the book that they had?

[Jay]

We kind of have you translating on the spot.

[MCG]

Sound like a true song leader. 443.

[Cleverson]

I’m not like someone who remembers the songs And sometimes when they hear the song, oh, I like that.

[Jay]

Right, right.

[Cleverson]

This don’t call my attention. And I’m not like that. I just love several, and I do not have in my mind when they come. But like my wife, oh, she’s great. She knows.

[MCG]

And you said for you, Stefanie, is How Firm a Foundation?

[Stefanie]

How Firm a Foundation, I think it would be my favorite hymn. My favorite song maybe would be Shout to the Lord.

[Jay]

Oh, okay.

[Stefanie]

But I love Majesty Music, Psalm 23. So I think it’s all about the Lord being with you, actually.

[Jay]

That’s a recurring theme in your answers. I’ve noticed that. What about your favorite giant of the faith?

[Cleverson]

Bo, Joshua.

[Jay]

Okay. What about you, Stefanie?

[Stefanie]

You know, I think I would say Josiah, King Josiah.

[Jay]

Oh, I don’t think we’ve gotten King Josiah yet on this podcast. That’s a new one. Yeah.

[Stefanie]

Well, he had no background in serving the Lord, you know, and He turned his life around just because he read the scriptures and he decided he would be changing himself and he would try to change the nation. And I think that’s amazing. I think that’s, you know, I hate that he lost all three of his sons, but, you know, he did the best that he could as soon as he knew to do it.

[Jay]

Amen.

[MCG]

Amen. All right, what would you say are some of the biggest barriers to the people of Dominican Republic from receiving the gospel?

[Cleverson]

The religions.

[Stefanie]

Yeah, thinking that they can do it by words.

[Cleverson]

The religions, they really take by heart that they are saved. Then they say, we are Christian. We are Christian Asian. And Satan is work so hard with this that they don’t see it. They need Christ, not church. the religious people, they think that everything is fine with their life. So I would say that’s a tremendous barrier with them because it is not easy to turn past that. It is not simple to show. For example, I had the opportunity to talk with the teachers from the public school once a month for one hour and the workers. So after the public school, we have once a month, I talk with them for one hour. For 40 minutes, I preach the gospel. In 20 minutes, I answer the question. And their question always is about what can we do to be safe? So they’re religious people think the salvation by works. It’s not easy take out their mind, the situation.

[Stefanie]

But I would also say that they’re looking to improve their lives. So they’re working a lot. They’re looking for jobs that are going to give them more money or a second job to help provide. Or they’re playing baseball, waking up at the crack of dawn to play baseball. As soon as they get out of school, go play baseball. And so trying to find the time where we can invest in them. you know, because they’re seeking, seeking, seeking after, you know, money or jobs or baseball or whatever they can to improve their life and just finding some time in their schedule where we can talk to them about the gospel.

[MCG]

Is baseball their maybe way of maybe hoping to make it big so they can get to the US and play baseball here?

[Stefanie]

Yes.

[Cleverson]

It’s like their dream they very early and like we had a guy from our church he was 21 22 years old and he should try to come to United States to play baseball because they think if you have opportunity to come they going to be rich and they can help their family right so it’s their dream.

[MCG]

How would you say those barriers can be removed, the barriers of religion, the barriers of wanting to, which is not necessarily a bad thing, to provide better for their families? What would you say, how can those barriers be removed?

[Stefanie]

Patience and consistency. Just continuing to show up and try to talk to them and, you know, just praying for them. You know, just waiting on the Lord to provide the opportunities.

[Cleverson]

Yeah, we try to make a relationship with them. We invite them to come to our homes. We invite them for dinner. We invite them for games, night, relationship. For they see that Christians, not just the people who like church, church, church, church. So they see that we have, we do things with normal people. The difference is that we have Christ inside us that they know How we act, because we act. So make the relationships also with them with this help a lot because they see it. They’re there to see it. For example, a very simple, they have football class. Yeah.

[MCG]

You got it, you got it.

[Cleverson]

When they played there, we had three boys. The three boys of us are playing with them. All of them speak bad words, but when the boys are there, they say, No, no, don’t say that in front of them. because they understand that my boys are not going to say bad words and they understand that they respect that because they’re making relationship with that and they start to change here there so that’s a great way to broke that barrier amen amen.

[MCG]

Well, Cleverson, Stefanie, it was indeed a pleasure. Thank you for joining us on the Removing Barriers podcast.

[Stefanie]

Thanks for having us.

[Cleverson]

Thank you very much. Appreciate you guys.

[Jay]

Thank you so much for listening to the Removing Barriers podcast. Make sure to rate us everywhere you listen to podcasts, including Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or Stitcher. Removing Barriers, a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

Thank you for listening. To get a hold of us, To support this podcast or to learn more about removing barriers, go to removingbarriers.net. This has been the Removing Barriers podcast. We attempted to remove barriers so that we all can have a clear view of the cross.