Episode 227

What happens when God reaches down into a loving but troubled family and starts saving souls? Great things, of course! In this episode of the Removing Barriers Podcast, we sit down with Eric Harrell to hear about how the Lord Jesus Christ saved him and made a 180 of his trajectory through life. A dedicated pillar in the children’s ministry of his local church, Eric has a heart to reach the young people for Christ, especially in this age fraught with more temptations and entrapments than previously ever imagined. God, he reflects, had been working in his heart and life all along, shaping and equipping him for such a time as this. Join us now to hear his testimony, and may it encourage you to pursue God’s will for your life with abandon. 

[Eric]

I was seeking out peace and comfort in the world. I was seeking out identity in the world. And all I kept getting back was more confusion, no peace, no comfort, nothing that I could hang my hat on and say, hey, this is it. So obviously as a 24-year-old man, when the Holy Spirit came knocking that third, fourth, fifth time, whatever you want to equate that to, I had to make a decision.

[Jay]

Thank you for tuning in to the Removing Barriers Podcast. I’m Jay and I’m MCG. And we’re attempting to remove barriers so we can all have a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

This is episode 227 of the Removing Barriers Podcast. And this is the 40th in the series of How Were Your Barriers Removed? And in this episode, we will find out how Eric’s barriers were removed when he came to a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.

[Jay]

Hi, this is Jay. MCG and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to removingbarriers.net and subscribing to receive all things Removing Barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at removingbarriers.net slash donate. Removing Barriers, a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

Eric, it is indeed a pleasure. Welcome to the Removing Barriers podcast.

[Eric]

Thank you, sir. Thanks for having me.

[MCG]

Great. All right. Well, why don’t we jump into it? Let’s start from the beginning. Tell us what state or country you were born in.

[Eric]

Yes, sir. Portsmouth, Virginia.

[MCG]

Cool. Tell us about that area of Virginia.

[Eric]

So Portsmouth would be in what we would call the Hampton Roads area of Virginia, surrounding cities, Chesapeake, Virginia Beach, Norfolk, Tidewater, they have so many different little names for that area.

[MCG]

Did you grow up there, actually?

[Eric]

Yes, I was born there. I grew up there until the age of nine, and then my parents split. And then I kind of bounced around in that area, moved in with my dad for a while, then some things changed, ended up with a grandparent, and so forth and so on. most of my life in one of those cities.

[MCG]

Okay, cool.

[Jay]

Can you tell us more about your upbringing? You mentioned that your parents split when you were about 9, but you were still in that southeastern corner of Virginia there. What kind of family were you born into? What was your upbringing like?

[Eric]

Very close family, large family. I’m the baby of seven. So by the time I was nine years old, my parents split. You know, I had adult siblings that I stayed with on and off. Their reaction to the divorce I witnessed, there was various feelings across my brothers and sisters. Some, were so-so, like, not a big deal. Others were very passionate. There was anger. There was a lot of strife amongst my siblings. I just remember kind of being neutral and just kind of waiting to see what was going to happen next. My upbringing, there was a lot of love. There was a lot of hugs, kisses, holiday times, times of folks traveling from upper part of Maryland, where my mother was from, to southern parts of North Carolina. So people would come together when the matriarchs were still living, if that makes sense. You know, my grandmothers were around. And so I remember being fearful that would change.

[Jay]

When you were a boy, did you find that time where all of your family came together? That’s more of a matriarchal thing, to gather everyone together. Did you find that you really cherished that? This sounds like a silly question, but my family, for example, they will find a reason to get together. It’s like, what? You stub your toe? Come on, let’s go have a cookout. You know what I mean? Everybody gets together, all your cousins and aunties and everybody together, and those were really precious memories. So that’s what you were afraid of losing, the togetherness?

[Eric]

Yeah, and you know, I think back, and not to fast forward too far, but you know, a mother’s been gone since 2009, 2009, she passed, and she was my first example of the sacrificial type of love, the unconditional love to a fault, even. Hopefully that answers your question, but that coming together to me was, you know, was gonna happen as long as she was around. Even at a young age, I knew that if anyone was gonna do it, was gonna be my mother, my grandmothers, my aunts, the ladies in the family. So it was a strong influence within the ladies. The men, you know, I don’t know if it was cultural, if it was the boomer age where the men would just remove themselves from the child rearing, the, what’s the word I’m looking for? Nurturing. Nurturing, perfect. That was exactly the word I was looking for. The nurturing portion of the upbringing where they would just be the providers. And recently was talking about that with my wife, how I believe that influenced a lot of the way I raise and we have raised our children, trying to make sure that we avoid some of those things that I believe were at the time viewed as normal. Because it did. It put so much pressure on the ladies looking back. My mom and them just had so much on them to keep things together. And consequently, when those ladies passed on, none of the getting together happens anymore. Because I believe that family members are waiting for someone else to do it. And we took it for granted. I have a daughter who’s in 10th grade and she’ll say, hey, what’s going on with Aunt so-and-so? And then I get this guilt because I’m like, well, you know, I don’t believe without mom or my grandparents being here, that it mattered much to me after they were gone. So that common person being my mother who brought everything together. But the flip side of that was very clannish too. Sometimes unhealthy situations, you know, there was heavy influence of unsaved alcohol, drugs. I would wake up certain days and there would just be a person I didn’t know on my couch. That would come from my mother’s giving spirit, but also It wasn’t a very secure situation, if you know what I mean. And because of all these elements coming together, I believe as an adult, I started to shy away from some of that and even closing things tighter within my own home and being more careful of who I allowed in my life and so forth and so on. So that’s a brief picture of the home life. Very loving, very inclusive. I mean, if you were a friend of mine, you had somewhere to eat, somewhere to be. My mom was your mom. But that also led to there wasn’t a lot of structure. So things that were serious matters that should have been dealt with would get swept under the rug. Kind of let’s not talk about that. Let’s move on to what we enjoy and things like that. Right.

[MCG]

So describe the first time you heard the gospel, but before you do so, also kind of dive into the spiritual atmosphere of your home growing up, because you talk about your father and mother being divorced, you being there last of seven kids. Describe the spiritual atmosphere of your home growing up and where did church fit in if it did, or spiritually fit in if it did. And then tell us maybe the first time you may have heard the gospel.

[Eric]

Yeah, so totally unchurched home. My grandmother on my father’s side, she was the only person I knew that even went to church. She was very poor growing up, sharecropper. Culturally, that’s what you did. So Sunday, you went to church. But to speak of salvation, I believe she was a saved woman, but I believe that a lot of the teachings that she would bring to me or say that I’m praying for you is very generic in nature, very religious. We just do these things because that’s what we grew up doing. So I don’t remember Jesus Christ being a focal point of the home. I mean, even in my grandmother’s life, there was alcoholism was so rampant in the men’s lives that I think that she was just happy enough to be able to control some of the situations that she was able to control within the home. And then that led to my father being a heavy drinker. So.

[MCG]

Is that what led to the divorce?

[Eric]

Yes.

[MCG]

Okay.

[Eric]

My mother, never. No drinking, no drugs. She was an adopted child. And her side of the family, if I drew it on paper, you would say, this is crazy, right? You had a situation where she was born into a situation where her aunt raised her with her dad. The dad would be gone for weeks on end on drunken stupors and she would be taking care of her siblings. so much calamity that I believe that she wanted to control a lot of what happened in her older years.

[MCG]

Yeah, that kind of led to her view on family as well.

[Eric]

Absolutely. So the boys could do no wrong, right? There was a problem there with that. And as I got older and I started going into other folks’ homes and seeing how they conducted their lives. And my earliest memory of even going to church was with my grandmother. But it was almost, I was just doing it when I stayed with her to make her happy. And There was no real spiritual impact. I don’t even remember hearing the gospel at the church that I went to. I don’t remember ever being faced with sin or question of forgiveness or eternity. These things didn’t become real to me until probably the 8th or 9th grade year of high school.

[MCG]

Oh, wow.

[Eric]

And I remember walking through the mall, my best friend, who’s my best friend to this day. And we were under the influence, just living crazy. Like I say, I was about 15, 16 years old. And a guy that I knew in my childhood was at the mall with a suit on. And I saw him from a distance and I see him come racing up to me and my immediate reaction was like, something’s happened here. Why does this fellow have a suit on? Well, he had just came from a Bible study and he recognized my face and he just wanted to tell me about Christ in that moment. And I was just, I was so ashamed of who I was. And even not knowing much about the Bible or the story of Jesus, I was under conviction because of the state of mind I was in at the time. And like a cockroach when the light comes on. That’s exactly how I felt. And I never forgot that. He probably walked away from that situation thinking, I made zero impact. You know, I’m trying to share the gospel at the mall. I see somebody. And that was the earliest memory of even being faced with the reality that there was this fellow that I knew who was kind of a ruffian growing up, maybe even picked on me a little bit in the neighborhood. And now we’re older and I see him again and his face is glowing. He’s dressed different. He’s something’s happened. Right. And before he even said a word, I knew something had happened that I didn’t want to be around. So then that was like, why did my spirit have a problem with his spirit? It was almost, it etched in my memory. Even though I was in the state of mind where most people would have probably forgotten that moment, God did a little mile marker there. He made an indentation in my life. I think that would probably be the first. Soon after, I say soon after, I made friends with a fellow in my new neighborhood. Now my parents are divorced. I’m living with my mother and her new husband. Different situation altogether. I’m in a new school and I’m spending time three or four doors down with a friend, Michael, and his family. And first thing I noticed is they had dinner together. It was like what I’d seen on TV. It was almost like, you know, Andy Griffith, right? I was thinking, this is wholesome. The father’s reading the newspaper, you know, It was Americana right before my eyes. So I watched these families’ situations on TV, and I’d look at my own family. Why is mine so much different? And so there was never a lack of love, but it was almost an unhealthy love. So I’m watching this father have boundaries for his son and the mother respect the father. And The grandmother was in the picture. There was respect, there was love, there was nurturing. They were, hey, it’s time for Eric to go home now. Would you like to have dinner with us? And when I would accept, it would be a big deal. And they would just show me so much love. Went to church with them a few times. So that led to Michael graduates, he goes off into the Air Force. Again, the dynamic of my life changed. Now I’m back with a grandmother living in Portsmouth again. But that was another marker. God was just etching these things in my heart. that, hey, I’m present here and I’m present here. I just knew, hey, I’m missing this. And whatever this is, now, fast forward, I would say four to five years later, three years out of high school, Leslie and I are dating. We had decided that, you know, we need a place of our own, right? Not even thinking about marriage, not even considering marriage. So we’re living in sin at our apartment. And she meets a friend at Chick-fil-A. She was working at Chick-fil-A at the time. I had started my career. I was in early stages of my HVAC career and working nine to fives and we’re doing what we see everybody else in our life. That’s what they did. You know, they get a certain age and they went out on their own.

[MCG]

Right.

[Eric]

And I consider myself probably amongst my peers, I’ve had it all together. You know, I mean, I had a job and a place to live, a girl that loved me and still using alcohol, still using drugs, still in the world. not even considering eternity at this point in my life. And my wife made a friend at Chick-fil-A that invited us to church. She comes home. I had met the girl, sweet as she could be. I said, you know, to be nice, we should go. And that’s where I encountered Christ. That Sunday I went, I made it a point that I wasn’t going to smoke any marijuana. I was going to go straight. I needed my mind to be straight because I didn’t want these folks to see me. a certain way. I at least knew that much, right, to play the role. I remember thinking that way. I remember going there with my wife and thinking, the first thing I noticed amongst the body of believers, without knowing anything, was their love for one another. The handshaking time at that church was hugs. It was unlike anything I’d ever seen. It was so welcoming. It was an older congregation, and to see young people come, now I look back, they were so excited. And it was an Easter right around the first part of April. So it was either the week before Easter, week after, I can’t remember now, but it was a strong salvation message, the cross, death, burial, resurrection of Christ. And I was faced with the decision that Sunday. I believe I had made-up my mind then. And that led to that week. I went home and I told Leslie, I was like, hey, you know, that pastor had made an invitation and I want to go forward and I want to get saved. And I believe at that moment, my heart had already been converted. I took a trash bag. I remember taking these big, tall, black trash bags that I had gotten from work. I probably stole them from work. And I started filling them up with anything that I thought that wouldn’t be pleasing to the Lord. Wow. Now this is before, where we always said, we got to, say this prayer, walk the aisle. These things had not happened yet.

[MCG]

Right.

[Eric]

My heart had already been shifted towards what I knew of God. I remember there was a t-shirt that had an image. It had horns. Even Leslie was like, hey, what are you doing? You know, like all the drug paraphernalia. It all started to go in these trash bags. There was two huge trash bags, 55 gallon trash bags of items that I knew that if I was going to make this decision were going to be a hindrance. So I was already preparing my heart for what he had for me. And subsequently, the following Sunday, I guess I made it what I called church official. And the rest is history.

[MCG]

All right, brother. So I think you kind of make it clear, but go back to the time when you come to your full realization of your sin. Was it at the mall when you saw your friend? Was it at that family home or was it at the church when you were invited? When did you come to that full realization that, hey, I’m A wretched sinner and I need a savior?

[Jay]

I was wondering that too, because it sounded like from the time you were at the mall all the way up until you got saved, you were under conviction that whole time.

[Eric]

Yeah. With common doses, I remember like the in-between times when I would either read a billboard of a church or maybe there was another Christian. I remember being at a bowling alley. This is just another tidbit reminder of falling under conviction of someone. I was very, very brash type of personality. So like I would let you know if anything bothered me, but God would just shut my lips with his people and with his, it’s really his love and his grace and his mercy. And I would see an individual at a bowling alley at a Chick-fil-A get together with my wife, girlfriend at the time. And I had used the *** term. After I had did something bowling wrong, and it just came, no control of my mouth at that time. I remember this young man that was there, and I know he knew the Lord. He said, you don’t have a father? And I thought, no. And I said, yeah, I used the B word. It wasn’t *** it was just the B word. And then he was looking at me in kindness, but also in love, like you’re using a word that you don’t even know the definition for. And it’s really a sad word. And I thought to myself that I have a father. And I wanted to say no. And I don’t know why I wanted to say no. Now I know because I think that the Lord had spoke to my heart there that you don’t have a father. You’re not being led by a father. You never had a father. You truly never did. And it embarrassed me. How could you question me? I say what I want. I don’t know you. don’t know me. Got real defensive. My wife, my girlfriend at the time, Leslie had to calm me down a little. I remember being agitated, but I believe it was just demons. that were just being disrupted. Sure. And I look back on those moments, but to say the defining moment was when I heard the gospel in its entirety. I think that he had given me the bits and pieces that planted the seeds that led up to the moment where there were just, you know, the catchphrases that, I don’t use that word lightly, the phrases that pastors use to really drive points home. And I remember those things were, if you were the only one living would have did it for you. It was you that put him there. Right. It should have been you that was nailed to that cross. All these convicting, and I couldn’t deny it. I could not argue what was being said when the gospel was presented in its entirety and I was faced with the decision. And even in my pride, I knew that I was not going to leave there without making the decision.

[MCG]

Right. What was the timeframe between them all and salvation?

[Eric]

Oh, wow.

[MCG]

Psalm to me like about 7, 8 years.

[Eric]

Around 8 years.

[MCG]

Okay.

[Eric]

So I was 24 when I got saved.

[Jay]

What do you think was holding you back in that time from accepting Christ? If the gentleman shared the gospel with you at the mall, sounds like, you know, the way that the Lord tapped on your shoulder would have been right then, but clearly there was something holding you back each time. Was it the lifestyle? Was it, what was holding you back from keeping you from accepting Christ, you think?

[Eric]

To say one thing would probably be hard, but lifestyle definitely had culture, the type of environment that I was comfortable in. Like most people, it’s hard to break away from because that’s where we find love. That’s where we find what we think is peace, understanding, we can relate. It was fear. All these things that I’m naming come from Satan. At the time, we didn’t know. I didn’t know that. I knew that the outward sin was going to be easy for me to combat. The items that I could throw away and there’s those garbage cans, those trash bags. Most of the conversations I’ve had about that time in my life with friends, saved or unsaved, I mean, that must have been tough, but really that was the easiest part because I could do it. And I could say that I did that because I chose to do that. I chose to remove all the exterior things. And at that time, I could have patted myself on the back and say, you know, this is self-help. This is what was best for me at the time. It was zero spiritual impact, when reality was my heart had been transformed. And it was no mistake. I mean, God’s timing was so right at the time. They were doing Sunday night messages in the fellowship hall of the church. Right after I was saved, my pastor had got his master’s, and he was going through a master’s plan for the ages. So from Genesis to Revelation, I was able to sit and just like a sponge, take in God’s plan for us.

[Jay]

Oh, this was like a sermon series.

[Eric]

This was a sermon series that was going on Sunday nights. And I fell right into it. And we had, to this day, I still have a copy of it at the house. I didn’t know what a dispensation was. I didn’t know what, you know, the terminology became so real to me. I remember going to work with a pen and a pad at lunchtime and these coworkers that had seen me once be in the bars with them and these things, they got to see me. in the word of God. And I could just share so many instances where that period, two to three years after I was saved, and the coworkers that I worked with, and to this day, some of them I still am in contact with, some of the impacts that were made, folks were saved. And it was just a result of a young Christian taking material that he had gotten from church and trying to make it practical. And that’s the only way I knew how to do it. I realized that early on that this was, And this is what I’d always been searching for, truth. That God revealed his word to me after I was saved. The reading was different. The prayer life was different. To going from a place to where I was at a young age, when you’re soul searching, you’re looking for, you’re looking for favor in the eyes of men, acceptance in groups to Understanding the reality of why you were created and what you were created for within such a short time, such an impressionable time. Before I had children, thank God.

[MCG]

Amen.

[Eric]

Thank God. God knew. I hope that answered some of the questions you asked.

[MCG]

Yes. We’ll get into that a little bit after the break. So it seems to me that these barriers were all just torn down at that message. either before Easter or after Easter sometime in early April yes amen 1999 amen amen all right well you’re listening to the removing virus podcast we’re sitting down with brother Eric Harold and we’ll find out how were his virus removed we’ll be right back.

[Jay]

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[MCG]

All right, brother, the Bible says in 2 Corinthians 5:17, Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he’s a new creature. Old things are passed away behold, all things are become new. I think you went a little bit into this before, but dive a lot deeper into it. What changes were evident in your life after God glorious with Savior?

[Eric]

The first thing comes to mind, I remember distinctly, he changed my tongue. And it was easy for God. It was noticeable right away that I wanted to be respected with the things that I said and the representation right away. I knew that if I was going to make an impact, that had to change. And I believe a lot of that was, that once he came in, the darkness that resided in my heart, that harbored all of the curse, I believe it’s curse, the things that we heard growing up, the forgiveness that had to take place in my life towards my parents and my grandparents and those who subjected me to filth and all of these things that I didn’t even know I had resentment for. Now I could look at them knowing that God had declared me innocent. Whoa. The least I could do is slow down and think of how I sounded to others and how I was coming across. Language, the drug use and the alcoholism was soon replaced in a healthy way with the youth ministry. So when I was, I’ll slow down a little bit on this part because it can be misconstrued, but looking back, it was a small, older congregation, right? A young man gets saved. Hey, let’s have him work with the kids, right? I can laugh at that now because it probably wasn’t the ideal situation for the church. We just didn’t have a youth pastor. There was no one in place. And God put me in a position. And thankfully, I didn’t preach too much heresy. I mean, you know, I was teaching Sunday school and I mean, just right into the fire, they say. Oh, wow. And looking back, we giggle about it, Leslie and I. But I think the Lord knew, I don’t think, I know that he knew that that I had to be busy in my Bible. And one way to get me there was expectations. So now I had older gentlemen in the church had expectations for me to teach a Sunday school class. I’d never dreamt that in a million years that someone would choose me to teach children anything, much less the word of God. And as any new Christian, you know, we can look back and, but again, Fast forward now, some of those kids have kids of their own now and they reach out to me on Facebook and we kind of laugh at those times and say, Mr. Harrell, you took us to the mountains that time. There was a van full of kids and the brakes went out. And as a layperson and being excited as a new Christian, I just did not even have time to play in that old role that I lived in. So subsequently, friends just started falling away, what I thought were friends. And I wasn’t one to carouse. I was always an early night guy, so I didn’t have that issue. Soon after I was saved, one very key element that I left out, because I got a little too fast, was the church knew that Leslie and I were living together. And in love, you know, the pastor comes over and he starts talking me through why this situation wasn’t the best for us. he could have told me to do a backflip off of a high-rise. I would have did it, right? I didn’t even need a reason, right? The man said so. That’s, you know. So Leslie and I, when she was getting a little nervous about it, I said, well, look, you know, we can’t be living together. This is a bad look. It’s not right. pastor just said so, she’s like, we got to do this and we got to do that. I can’t just go back home. And that was our first step in faith. I said, well, look, he says that there’s this deacon. I don’t even, I didn’t even know what a deacon was. He’s got a room on the back of his house. I can go stay. You know, I can still work, send you the money, you know, you can pay the bills and we can plan our wedding. So in three months time after I was saved, a week later, I’m living in a stranger’s house. For those folks to bring me into their home, they had kids and 12 years old, who I’m very close to this day. And they would watch me wide-eyed. I get home from work and very much like your young people here, you walk in, they just, they watch you. What’s this guy all about, right? What’s he gonna do next? And at that time, I had an earring in my ear. You know, I didn’t even think about it, right? I remember going in the bathroom maybe the second night I was there and I looked at, I said, oh man, I gotta get that out of there. Nothing for me, right? It was all external, it was easy. I was throwing these things away. The next time I saw Jonathan, the young man I was staying with, he said, my mom and dad told me that you had taken your earring out. And he wanted to see what I was gonna say. And I had forgot about it. I said, yeah, you know, it’s just one more thing and the Lord’s working on my heart about. And he never forgot these conversations. He has kids of his own now. I took him to his first movie. You know, he grew up in a very closed environment.

[Jay]

Yeah.

[Eric]

You know, they were able to, I believe, looking back, open up a little bit more. They were very strong, conservative folks. I modeled my life after them to this day. And that was my first Christian home that I had experienced as an adult. And they’re putting me in, I mean, I’m eating out of the refrigerator. I’m using their facilities. They’re just trusting God. And I didn’t see it. then, I just thought, they want me to be here because they don’t want me living with Leslie. I’m not thinking that these folks had to have serious discussions about, we don’t even know this kid, we’re gonna let him move into our home, be around our children. That was a big step of faith for them. At the time, you know, the three months that went by, I was able to just ingest a Bible study plan, the word of God. I just remember being in the New Testament every night, in the book of John especially, understanding God’s plan for my life better, even more as the days approach to my wedding. So I was saved, we were married, and bought our first home all in the same year. Oh, wow. God brought me through total uncertainty and no plan to a place of contentment, a place of security, and a place of excitement. Because now I’ve got this new family of believers. I got all these kids that are watching me. I got all these expectations that are only from How about on the job training? Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. and again, looking back, I don’t know that I’d have as much faith as that family did bringing me into their home. Leslie and I talk about it all the time. I was like, there’s no way. There’s just absolutely no way. I’d be fearful. I would think of the things that maybe my kids would hear, or maybe I would rub off the wrong way. So back to the apartment I go. as a married couple. And we weren’t there two months before we bought the home, our first home. So right away, the Lord took my friends away, acquaintances, replaced them with his people. The Bible studies, the discipleship that I do not take for granted that was taking place that I didn’t know. I thought this was normal. I thought everyone got saved. and an elder in the church would just take you in and under his wing and open their home up and just spend time in the word of God with you. And that was not the case. That is not the case. We were very special to a lot of folks. And it was by his grace, it was by his mercy, it was by his people that stepped up. And a church that was really going through a lot that I had no clue. They had been through a couple splits. They hadn’t seen young people. They were excited and it brought a lot of life. And again, in my ignorance as a young Christian, you know, some of the things that I’d missed during that time that was happening, And God sheltered me from some of that, I believe, because I just wasn’t mature enough to understand some of the complexities of church splits and relationships and how they can be damaged through that. And I was sheltered from these things by these folks. And those were the things immediately. I definitely started dressing different, started to be more cognizant of my appearance. I wanted to represent Christ in a way that it would be no denying that a change took place on the inside. Some people would lean towards legalism with that, right? You get these conversations, but no one ever had to take me through a class of how to be, how to represent. It was always a matter of obviously your surroundings. You’re looking around and, you know, I was one who, you know, I never had the tattoos. I had a few piercings and do crazy things with my hair and a lot of the things that would be associated with rebellious spirit. I was careful not to go back to that. was some of the first things early on that I recalled never having to struggle with. And I believe that even to this day, when I meet new Christians and just young people in general, whether they’re just struggling with the influence from the outside world of pop culture, the internet wasn’t even a thing, you know, at this point, right? So now our kids are being bombarded from all sides, from ideologies that just combat against the very nature of God. I tell my wife all the time. And sometimes in jest, we talk about, could you imagine if you had a recording device in your pocket at all times when you were a teenager? I’d be like, sweet, I probably would be in federal penitentiary. We laugh, but it’s so true. Our children have so many things now that can get them in a jam that could just stay with them the rest of their lives.

[Jay]

Absolutely.

[Eric]

Mercy and grace provided so many opportunities and avenues. But I have to also say that I was open to that. I believe that my upbringing, even though it was chaotic, also God used that, I was very open-minded. So when it came time to move into some stranger’s home, I’d seen that already. I’d seen that in my own home. People come sleep on the couch, whoever you are. And it didn’t seem like a foreign concept to me. So there’s a beauty in that where God used some of the chaos in your own life to further your walk with Him after you’re saved. Hopefully that makes some kind of sense.

[MCG]

Oh yeah, definitely.

[Jay]

Absolutely. So the difference, right, between… how we grew up without cell phones and how the young people are growing up now with everyone’s got a supercomputer in their pocket, right? And we hear this A lot. Well, perhaps, let me rephrase that. So we go out witnessing every Saturday and sometimes people will say, this is an outdated way to reach people. We’ve got the internet now. People are listening to podcasts, and it’s all more advanced now. And the stuff that you’re doing is just old-fashioned. You don’t knock on people’s door and talk to them anymore. Why do you want to go talk with someone about the gospel? They might reject you, or you may not have the answer. And there are a lot of barriers, I think, in Christians’ lives when it comes to reaching people with the gospel, having those barriers removed, seeing the cross for what it is and kneeling down and repenting and entrusting Christ for that salvation. Do you think that the ways that your barriers were removed are still valid and still happening and still a thing today in this technological world that we’re living in where, like I said, everyone’s got a supercomputer in their pocket?

[Eric]

Now, that’s a valid question. And I’ve heard that answer to that thought of, is it old-fashioned to spend a lot of time, even in our churches, to set aside a night to go door knocking?

[Jay]

Sure.

[Eric]

And I’ve heard varying opinions on that from people that I respect. And I can see where some folks, because of culture, have gotten more closed in private, worried about when the doorbell rings now, it’s a big deal.

[Jay]

Sure.

[Eric]

Like, Right. Ring doorbells, right? Cameras on the house.

[Jay]

On the internet. I’m a meme now. You know, yeah.

[Eric]

Even after I got saved, it was like, hey, you know, you don’t stand at the door. You stand three steps off of this. So that culture of just not doing it at all was never something that I was a part of. The last church that I was a member of, we still did outreach in that way. Because we have all these other tools, I guess it would be easy to justify just stepping away from that personal contact. But going back to your question about my experience, like you said, 1999, that this was not an issue. The communication chains were just totally different. I have to still think that there’s just something about seeing a flesh and blood that cares in front of you. whether you want to receive it at that time or not. Because I’ve been on door visitation that didn’t go well. And then I’d been in situations where it would be surprising. Now you’re invited in and the Lord almost whisper in my ear, like you didn’t think this was going to happen, did you? Again, we get to where we’re just going through the motions. Then when someone invites you in and it’s time to believe what you say you believe, and now you’re faced with You have a person that’s genuinely interested in what, it might have been 30 visits to one or 100 to one or 1000 to one. I think it’s more important to always be ready to share the truth. Whether we never get that opportunity, it’s God’s timing. I think the tools that we have with these phones, with the different platforms, social media, I think some of it can be so watered down though that Is the Holy Spirit even in it? Are we just regurgitating a message that they heard on another meme? Or it can definitely be an opening, a door opener for conversation. But since I’ve been saved and sharing the gospel, I’ve never once had someone say, even in some of the videos that I’ve clearly shared the gospel, that have came back and said, hey, you know, that changed my life. Having a knowledge of the truth has never been what saved folks. I had a knowledge of the truth. growing up in America, you heard it at one time or another, whether it’s Billy Graham crusade, or I just believe that the personal touch, making eye contact. Hey, what are these people crazy? They’re still going door to door about Jesus. The touch points in my life that took place were all personal. They etched a mark in my heart, and I believe that he’s still working through us. But to say that it’s outdated, I don’t think I’m buying into that.

[MCG]

Yeah, let’s zoom in a little bit on that because you mentioned Billy Graham crusade and, you know, and he said that a lot of folks would have heard, you know, of Christ because of crusades like that and other stuff. But the culture has changed to a point where, you know, today, 20 year old and 24 year old, like you were when you got saved. There’s a highly likely that they have not heard. they grew up in the technological age, as we all mentioned. This generation is the first generation that no time in their life that they weren’t smartphones or internet or internet and stuff like that. So they grew up in a completely different era where, you know, we might grow up with radio and television and cable TV might be the biggest thing. And then, yeah, but the thing about the internet and. the culture of today is that you can find your silo. So before, if you look at it, like.

[Eric]

For instance, you could create your algorithm.

[MCG]

Right.

[Eric]

Yes. Yes.

[MCG]

You know, growing up in the 90s, early 2000s, everybody kind of watched the same television program. You know, like everybody know the Flintstones and the Jacksons and stuff like that. Today, you can watch anything you want to watch. So you can create your own little, you know, silo.

[Eric]

Such a good point.

[MCG]

So talk about that in terms of evangelism, as you mentioned there, because I guess, Along with that question is, what are you doing personally now in the air of evangelism to help people remove the barriers that they had, like you have, especially considering the culture as well?

[Eric]

Wow. That truth really hits home because we can create our own silos.

[MCG]

Right.

[Eric]

We can, even in Christendom, we can just build our little fortress of safety around us to where any and everything that we want to hear or see is what we’re comfortable with. I’ll try to relate this into the recent events. One of the first interactions I had with a young man helping out in kids’ church one evening on a Wednesday night, a brother that was doing the teaching, and I was sitting next to a young man. I didn’t know him, he didn’t know me, and he was preaching the gospel. And the young man looked a little bit disjointed, a little disheartened. I was checking on him, and he says, you know, I just… I got some questions about what he’s saying. I’m not sure if I’m saved. Without knowing anything about the family, the background of this child, you know, we went out into the hallway. I found a tract that went over some verses that about security of salvation. And I remember handing that to him and his parents came to pick him up that evening and I explained to them that hopefully this will help. You know, my name’s Eric, good to meet you. And I started thinking after that interaction, and I’m brand new to this church community at this point. And I started thinking, what if I wouldn’t have been sitting there that evening next to that young man? Not much different than your child’s age. And it was just so humbling to think that in that moment, that young man was sitting next to a perfect stranger. But because I was available, he’s able to express a need. Now, fast forward to six months later, this same young man, I had him in kids’ church the other Sunday. helping me out with story time. And he got some things squared away. Now, this is in the church. This is amongst the brethren. This is the personal touch that I think what I’m getting at is there was a relationship that was being formed. He comes to me a lot and we pray together and we have a special little relationship that was formed on uncertainty about some things that he was in faith reaching out to someone he didn’t even know. So I think that we as believers, and I speak for myself, don’t expect these things to happen. We don’t expect God to be God when it comes to his promises to us. He’s going to make himself real to others through us. Now, carrying that into outreach, the area that we live in is very busy. It’s very transient. People are tired. I’m learning this, right? Where I’m from, things were a lot slower. Folks are dropping their children off to us for various reasons. They know they need something for their children. We’re attempting to reach the home through the kids that are coming to our church on Wednesday nights. We’re having interactions with the families in the common areas of the church. Some are staying for, these are folks that are either affiliated with the school, know of the church through some friends. New families are coming and hearing the truth. They’re entrusting us with their children. And at one point, I believe in a lot of churches recently, you know, there was this attitude of, well, the world is using us for a babysitting service. And I say, praise the Lord. Bring him in. We’ll babysit him, whatever you want to call it. You go do your grocery shopping. Please stay if you’d like. We have to be available. That is the key. So if that’s knocking on doors, if that’s opening up your doors of your church, with all the uncertainty, with safety precautions, anything that we can do, the other night we had a fire alarm in the church. It was a little chaotic, right? Created uncertainty. People didn’t know where to go get their children. Everyone was coming out of the building. People were coming in the building. It was obviously a false alarm. I guess what I’m getting at is with that being available as a Christian to be used of God, we have to be also ready to be prepared to be and willing to be uncomfortable and not having all the answers for folks who are looking for answers. How many times have you been in a conversation, and this has happened to me recently, it’s like, because you’re expected to have all the answers. And there’s folks that are going through things that are traumatic, they’re not one-word answers, and then time is your enemy, especially in this area that we live in. I would say that Without the personal touch, without the relationships being formed and the time and the care that needs to be taken with that, I don’t know how it would be possible for some folks to come to a saving knowledge outside of that, because I don’t believe words do it. The Bible talks about this foolishness of preaching. Folks are saved. And that’s through an interaction. That’s through someone sitting and listening. And again, we’re commanded to go to all the ends of the earth with the gospel. that seems simple. We should be able to just type the gospel, send it to every e-mail address known internationally, and we had done our job. But that’s not enough. That sounds silly. But really, we could take that and say, well, I’ve done my job. You know, I conveyed the message, but God chooses to use us. And I know there’s folks out there that you’re going to reach that I can never reach, vice versa. And if we don’t take that and think, that means that I have to sacrifice some time, some effort, some funds to be inconvenienced, to be a babysitter, to be uncomfortable, to be able to go to the door and expect God to actually move on the hearts of folks. We are selling the Lord short by believing that some type of blog or, I mean, let’s face it, even this platform we’re on right now, we can talk and talk and talk and drive these points home But if there’s no action, if there’s no love, if there’s no mercy, if Christ isn’t in it, then I don’t believe that there’s any transformation. There’s no rebirth. There’s no conviction. There’s certain elements that I know that when they’re missing, and all the truth can be present. And take a few of these elements away, and it’s just words.

[MCG]

Right. You know, you said something that I think is quite interesting, because there’s an article on removingbarriers.net that the title of it is the comfort of two barriers. And a lot of times Christians don’t really share the gospel, as you said, because quite honestly, they’re not comfortable or they don’t want to be uncomfortable or they don’t want to be inconvenient in their everyday life and what they’re doing. And I think that’s so important because going back even to knocking on doors, a lot of the reason why a lot of folks don’t want people coming out the door because they’re not comfortable with it. I call those the comfort of two barriers. You know, the Christians prefer staying home and don’t want to be comfortable, don’t want to be asked a question they can’t answer, and the homeowner don’t want to be inconvenient to go answer the door and, oh, it’s one of those other religious knots. So someone has to make that move because we had indeed command to do that. So I think that was a great insight there from you. And talking about even, you know, of course, you head up the Awana program at your church, and it’s so important here because you said that, you know, let us babysit. And I think a lot of folks look at it in a way that, hey, you’re dropping off your kids and you’re going, grocery shopping, or you’ll take it that’s two hours away from your kid that you can go home and clean and come back and whatever case may be.

[Eric]

It makes you up late too, you know, you gotta wait. Yeah.

[MCG]

You never know, but if that kid gets saved, even if the family never… get saved, that kid gets saved. And because I wasn’t raised in a Christian home, I got saved and grew up in an unsaved home, but I cling to my faith. You never know what was going to happen with a child, even if he’s grew up in an unsaved home. He might cling to the faith and who knows, you know, these are songs that say when others see a shepherd, boy, God may say a king. So anyways, yeah, great stuff. All right, let’s go into a little bit of a fun section and find out some of your favorites. Let’s start with what is your favorite scripture verse?

[Eric]

I have three. It’s what we do as good Baptist, right? You have three points, right? We have 3 verses, three points.

[MCG]

That’s fine. My son used to have like 5 favorite colors.

[Eric]

Yeah, it’s always for me, when I’m picking out these favorite life verses, usually they always have a common theme. And as I started writing these out and thinking about it, John 3.30, right? He must increase, but I must decrease. That’s the one that is on my heart now. When I wasn’t on my heart when I got saved, it wasn’t something I was compelled about. Having that type A personality, coming from the type of background where, you know, in my profession, to earn respect, you have to be the best. It can be very cutthroat in commercial trades. Being slow to speak is a challenge in my upbringing. The idea of decreasing It’s such a foreign concept culturally. It’s such a short verse. I think that’s why it’s also one of my favorites because I can remember it. Hello. And I quote it and sound very profound with it. But in order for him to increase, I must decrease.

[MCG]

Right.

[Eric]

That’s an imperative. And who did it come from? Right. So John the Baptist, as they were looking to him, for things that he was not. They wouldn’t attempt. He was there. He was in front of them. Why do you keep going to Jesus? John, you’re the guy, right? Yeah. And again, who am I? Who am I ever to think that I’m some self-made person that I can take any credit for my salvation, my blessings? So that’s my life verse today. You know, then I started thinking back when I was saved. And of course, Galatians 2, 20 comes to mind. And this reassurance that we have that we were crucified with Christ. Nevertheless, I live, yet not I, but Christ liveth in me. And the life which I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me. And how many times I had to come back. This was also one of my mentors, like the fellow who took me into his home. That was his life verse. And he came from a similar background, saved later in life, being the only Christian in his home. I’m crucified with Christ. So that old man that he’s dead, and walking in newness of life. I heard a preacher once say, I’d love to come to that place for you, brother, but my legs don’t belong to me. I would love to lift that drink to my lips so my hands don’t belong to me. And this concept of, and it’s, again, it’s something you teach the young people in children’s church. A lot of times we try to make these things to be some super spiritual, we try to over-explain these concepts in our life. And if we really, truly believe what we say we believe and what we read and what we claim to practice, and we go back to this verse, then I don’t have much of a choice in the matter. If I don’t fall under subjection to this verse and believe it, then it’d be so easy for me to go back and say, you’re not worth it. You’re not worthy of it. You don’t deserve it. Look at these people around you. They’re much better than you. have no business in this environment. This fellow can preach you to in a corner. What are you doing? Being on this podcast, that Satan gives you doubts about proclaiming Christ, he doesn’t want you to do that. He would much rather you have the thought that you’re not crucified with Christ. That old man still is hanging on your back, and you’re taking him everywhere you go. And the thought of that, the life that I now live, I live by the faith of the Son of God. Right to this present day, one of the men I respected so much early on in my walk with the Lord, he would say, you’re not living out eternity when you die and go to heaven. You’re living now. You’re living in eternity now. Your life in Christ began the moment you were saved. You need to start living like you’re in his presence now. And I remember that concept because it, again, as I say it, it’s not profound, it’s biblical, and it’s very true. How often do we get caught up in the idea that, you know, ooh, this old wretched man that I am, you know, I just need to shake off this flesh one day, Lord, I’ll be with you in glory, and I won’t have all these, wait a minute, Wait a minute, the verse says to me that the life which I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me. How am I to live presently? Well, in newness of life. And then my third one, had to go to Old Testament, had to get one available to you. This one, we had an evangelist come and he was master in Bible memorization. His name will come to me as I’m talking. From West Virginia, grew up, same kind of situation that I grew up in. Johnny Pope? Jerry. Oh, he had the craziest West Virginia accent and the kids would giggle as he preached. I can’t believe I can’t remember his name. He’ll go home tonight. Yeah, I should have said it. Yeah, bro. Like, hey, can you guys put this in? Yeah, so Job 13, 15, though he slay me, Yet will I trust in him, but I will maintain mine own ways before him. Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him. And this was from the words of this West Virginia preacher who said that his mother would say this verse audibly when they were young people and his father was out running around with women on him and on her. And it was just a horrible situation. Alcoholism, she was saved, bringing the kids into the church weekly and just trying to be faithful to God. And he remembers the tears, his mother shedding these tears that though she was going through this, and though he couldn’t help but think that she was at a point where she thought, here I am faithful to you, Lord, and you’re allowing all this, all these terrible things in my life. And then she, of course, as a godly folk should do, she went right into her Bible, into Job. This is one of the verses that sustained her. And as we go through trauma and tragedy, and I’ll share this briefly, I mean, 2006, my wife and I had been saved some time now, and my son was maybe a year old. My father-in-law took his own life. And I remember that was the first traumatic experience in our marriage, in our Christian life. Up to that point, I remember having conversations with my wife about praying for others in the church who were going through certain things. We would feel guilty because we weren’t going through anything. It was an amazing time in our life to think that there was Everything was just trending positively. Parents were still alive. I don’t think we had been to a funeral, our whole marriage up to that day. And now as a husband, I had to try to make some sort of sense of this situation and bring comfort to the home. And of course, the doubts that Satan would bring into the situation and the questions and the stigmas that even in the church about this very subject that you have to face. There’s shame. Mental health conversations weren’t very prevalent in, these small independent Baptist circles. And that just opened up so many opportunities later, and go back to these types of verses, though he slay me because there were sleepless nights, there were watching my wife fall apart physically, emotionally. she still had to be a mom. We had a young child there, and this went on for years and years. And to this day, we have to be reminded of his promises. Leaves an indelible mark. These don’t go away. Since then, obviously, because we can lean on the truth, now we can go look back and say, and even in recent times, look at the folks that we’ve been able to minister to that have gone through something similar and say, you know, this is what we were able to do. This was the awareness that was brought into the church about this issue. Because, brother, as well as I do, and this could be a separate podcast altogether, that black eye, that tainted reminder, oh, Satan can use to bring shame and reproach and just make you not even want to be around God’s people. And again, this could be a totally different subject, but that verse was one that I was able to cling to. Because there were nights where I was like, where are you? Because I went to a place where, hey, we’ve never had anything happen to us. We’re praying for brother so-and-so. He lost his wife. We’re praying for sister so-and-so. She’s dealing with cancer. We’re watching her body just deteriorate. And here we are at the peak and pinnacle of our lives. Everything was going right. Got this beautiful sun. And then it explodes into this confusing moment that, again, impacted years of our marriage. up until present time where, thankfully, God is able to use my wife, myself, and others’ lives to bring this conversation even into a place where you can not get one-word answers. Oh, he was selfish. Oh, he was the human mind. You know, the Bible talks about the tongue who can know it. What about the mind? Who can know it? And again, alcoholism, depression, years of untreated mental health issues. Now I’m a 30-year-old man who’s never had to have this discussion, much less console a wife whose father has taken his own life. You have nothing else but the word of God. And then when you turn to the word of God, some of the people are going to kind of raise an eyebrow now because this stigma Because now it’s not an easy answer, right? And brother so-and-so, when you first got saved, I could take you to a Romans Rd. and I could show you exactly how to walk, not as a carnal Christian, the steps of baptism. So now we’ve got an issue that’s not very black and white. And let’s face it, it’s not something that’s being taught. It’s a possibility even for a congregation to have to deal with. Because anytime, things want to get buried and get hush-hush, you got to turn to the people of God. And even there, you find hollowness sometimes because folks, they’re fearful to touch on that subject because it is sensitive. So then you turn to the left. Well, the world will have answers for you and the psychologist and the self-help and the go share your thoughts with others that have been through that. We went down that road and found a lot of success as well. But eventually, you As A Christian, you’re going to go right back to the word of God for your comfort, for your solace. And thank God for these life verses. I mean, I think when I was first asked the question, you know, what is your life verse? It would be hard to just point to one. And that’s why, again, I had three because there was like times of life. maybe 10 years from now, I have another one that’s just on my heart. But I hope I didn’t get too long on that. Sorry.

[Jay]

No, not at all. Do you have a favorite Bible historical account that you kind of cling to in that same way that you do your comforting verse as well?

[Eric]

I think obviously for someone that has lived the type of life that Paul, that was so compelling. I remember being a young Christian and going through his life and his conversion. and being able to have someone that was so relatable. He had all the answers too, trained under the best, very religious. He had all the things that one would have on the outside and for God to just take him to a place, take his vision, have him to be under the care of other people just to even get around, changing his identity, revealing himself to Paul in the way that he did for three years. And then the majority of the New Testament, that we can attribute these letters to the churches and find a lot of our, well, all of our theology in the New Testament churches through his teachings. Didn’t you look at your own life and you say, I wasn’t even as bad as Paul. And I mean, this guy was killing Christians. He was threatened by this movement, you know, this uprising. And he was expected to take care of this situation. And in the midst of doing his job, At the time, I got to believe he thought, well, I’ve got this figured out. I’m with the right people. I’m doing my job at highest level. And God just took everything from him and flipped it upside down. And I recall going through these series of messages about Paul’s life and looking at my own life and just mirroring, I’m the chiefest of sinners. Paul says, you know, there was at no point I could have ever said that, well, how can God use me? There was no denying that he would use the least of them. And it was just so compelling to think that you had this religious elitist that God slapped upside the head and brought him to a place where he was willing to die. Right. For Christ and all of his infirmities later in life, the imprisonment and the imprisonments. So yeah, Paul for sure.

[MCG]

Amen. All right, let’s continue along that vein and tell us, do you have a most convicting scripture verse or passage?

[Eric]

Oh, wow.

[MCG]

It could be the same, but if it’s not.

[Eric]

Yeah, so When I’m sitting in on preaching that starts to hit on, I’m probably the most convicted when missionaries come and share stories of what their daily lives are, sharing the gospel in foreign lands. And I have a problem even sharing my faith with my neighbor next door and my comforts and my inability to be moved. We talked about earlier about being in a place of comfort. And we don’t want that bothered. We don’t want to be inconvenienced. When I hear missionaries come and talk about planting churches in areas that never had a church and the difficulties of the visas and all these barriers, if you will, that they’re faced with, and I can just hang my head and think, you know, that fellow at the gas pump that I just didn’t want to hand a tract to, I had one 4 feet from my hands, but I justified it. in my mind at the time. So in sharing my faith, any portion of scripture that touches on that, really is, because we are so without excuse when it comes to that. And you guys shared that you guys are out every Saturday door knocking. I mean, that’s even convicting to me because, you know, working in a ministry, you can, oh, you’ll have brothers in Christ tell you, hey, protect your Saturdays, right? Okay, there’s wisdom in that. how we’re using our time. Brother Craig and I talked recently, and one of the things that we always go back to is we just don’t have a lot of time. Hey, brother, we don’t have a lot of time. We don’t have a lot of time worrying about what color the carpet’s gonna be right now. These kids need the Lord. We don’t have a lot of time worrying about if they’re gonna drop them off and go shopping, and if we’re gonna be glorified babysitters, whatever you wanna call it, we don’t have a lot of time. The older we get, and I’m 52 this year, you guys could probably say amen to this. life is a vapor. Oh, yeah. That’s a convicting verse.

[Jay]

Very convicting.

[Eric]

Oh, man. Life is but a vapor. And then it’s gone. So then when you had told me that when I was 24 years old, it had a different meaning?

[Jay]

Well, I mean, 24, we’re invincible.

[Eric]

We have all the time in the world, right? All the time in the world. Here we are. You fast forward now. And that led me to, again, coming into the ministry, that job that I’m a part of now, and I shared with earlier, all those messages that would convict me compile up to a point that’s where, hey, if I told you had 24 hours to live, what would you do for Christ? Well, how do you know you don’t? If I told you had 10 years, if I told you had 20 years, I would just echo back in my mind, the conversations with Brother Craig would say, you know, hey man, we just don’t have a lot of time. I remember him saying that, and it was so true. They can be very convicting, thinking about sharing your faith?

[Jay]

What about those times when you need comfort from the Lord? Where does he kind of pull your heart and your mind’s eye to in the scriptures?

[Eric]

Yeah, and as I think about that question, the first thing that comes to mind is my pride. Oh, as a man, it’s so dangerous to take the approach that we are okay, that we have got it under control. Are the bills going to get paid? feeding our children, how we’re spending our time, what we’re allowing in our home. We are bombarded as men with a heavy burden that we can, I believe, we can allow to overwhelm us. And the ways that it comes out in my life is in anger, a little outburst here, impatience, an impatient moment here, passing blame here because Oh, I didn’t get enough sleep last night. I’m going to justify my actions here. I’m hungry. I need a meal. We, I believe as men, I know in my own life, the inability to admit that I need the Lord daily in my relationships, in my fears, because we want to, I know for me, I want to portray an image that everything’s under control and nothing’s out of control. And that I would want you, brother, to believe that I’m always the same. I would never want to put my guard down and reveal my flesh. It would be embarrassing. It would be less than manly. So even in 30 years of walking with the Lord, the trap of carrying on appearances, I have accountability partners, thankfully. But to say that I use them all the time, that’s a little, that’s a lie. I would rather you believe that I’ve got it all figured out and everything’s working according to God’s perfect will and plan in my life. The comfort that you were asking about is neglected in my life a lot when there’s prayerlessness and there’s a lack of time spent in God’s Word. And then I seek comfort from past experiences, my own hands, what I can produce. As long as the creature comforts are aligned, Every box is checked and everybody seems happy, right? And I’ve done my duty as a husband. I can turn on the basketball game now and turn my brain off and not be cognizant of the fact that I need his comfort. Because I want to make sure my wife is okay. I want to make sure the children are where they need to be spiritually. I want to make sure that the duties of the church, we had to fill the baptistery, we had to make sure the heat was running. Caud Lewis, all these functionalities of a man can be taken place and look like everything’s in order. And they might be on the surface, but when we neglect that part of our own hearts that God wants to be intimate with. And I know for me, prayer life and time in God’s work can never be compromised or replaced with, well, obviously, you know, I’ve just spent 16 hours in a church building. How much closer to God can you be? Well, I can tell you that you could be just as far away. And I’m learning that. I remember hearing that. Through brothers and sisters that were in the ministry, they would warn of that and they would be so adamant about protecting your personal walk with the Lord. And as soon as you said comfort, I thought of the inadequacy of that, of how I don’t seek that comfort because if I’m real about this and I’m really being transparent, the majority of the time, I find my comfort in my surroundings, past victories. We get caught in that thought. Or I can give you all the cliche one-line answers that you want to hear to make you think that I’m close to God at this moment and I’m in his will. And a lot of that might be true, but it’s that daily walk. It’s that opening my eyes and putting my feet on the floor and seeking him out in prayer first. Before the coffee, right? Before that ride in the work where I turn on the sport. As you can probably tell, I read I’m a big sports guy, right? So whatever that distraction in your life’s gonna be, you start filling your heart with those things that mean. Oh, yeah, we love them. We love our entertainment. Bring it on, right? But man, as soon as you said comfort, Jay, I was convicted, I thought, when was the last time I wept for the things of God? I will cry now thinking about, not of the things of God, I would cry thinking about of my conviction. of my pity, of my own heart, that there are so many times, and I can’t believe I’m the only man who struggles with that because it’s pride. Ultimately, if we boil it all down, the pride of life, but that’s a struggle of mine is how do I, and when I do, I find that when these things have happened, Last time I could remember, I had a kidney stone. You hear me out on this one. I called on the Lord more that day than I had ever, I believe. If you’ve never experienced a kidney stone, we can do another podcast on that one if you would like. That is an incredible amount. So of course, I give you a very accelerated version of that story. You know, it hits me at work. I get beside myself. I get in the car. I rush you to the emergency room.

[Jay]

You drove yourself.

[Eric]

I did. By the time I got there, Jay, I had to seat all the way back and I’m just clenched. My whole body is just ringing with pain. I get to the counter and I’m leaning on the counter at this time. It doesn’t matter because I’m the only person that matters at this point. And I look at the sweet lady across the counter. She’s dealt with this all day and she’s already knowing what I’m going through because she sees this. She’s like, sweetie, look, I’m going to get you back there as fast as I can. You’re probably having a kidney stone issue. Just by looking at me, she could tell. Oh, the security guards watching me, you know, I was just beside myself. I was nauseous. I’m in and out of the bathroom. And then the Lord put on me, you remember when your wife was in here having your child, your daughter, and the things that she was faced with and the pains and the uncomfortable times and, oh Lord, just take it away. That’s all I wanted. I just wanted everything to be normal again. And, the rest of the story. They give you the shot. You’re just as friendly as you can be. Five minutes later, life goes on. And it’s like, the Lord’s just whispering to me, is this what we have to do for you to come to me? You have to make a fool of yourself in the emergency room? You know? So pain, pain will take you there. Physical pain, the loss of a loved one, the uncertainty of what the next day is going to bring, whether it be financial. What I’ve learned through it all, and I try to learn daily, is Man, when we wait till then, he had so much more for us in the in-between moments that prepare our hearts for those moments. Not to say I wouldn’t be in pain, not to say that I wouldn’t be beside myself. But we are leaky vessels. This same word that we’re talking about today, I can walk away from here and start filling my mind with the things of this world and it just becomes an afterthought. I said, what, Pastor, he just preached on that message last week. Go, thank God he did. I need it again. For a different reason this time. Yeah, finding my comfort in the things that won’t last. I’m an expert at that. Yeah.

[MCG]

What would you say is your favorite hymn of the faith?

[Eric]

Wow. I could pick seven, probably. In Christ alone.

[MCG]

Amen.

[Eric]

One of the most recent ones that, you know, whenever that one comes on, that’s just a showstopper. Doesn’t even matter. When I hear that, I take time to spend in that. And Christ alone is one. When the roll is called up yonder was one when I was first saved, that whenever that was like, pick your favorite hymn night, you know, at church, 5 55, I can remember the number in the hymnal. When the roll is called up yonder, I’ll be there. That’s a thought. Trying to think of the less obvious ones that I really enjoy. Spending years in the choir, being able to be around these songs, and I think over the years, I’ve taken a lot of them for granted, and how sometimes the Lord will bring A song to your heart when you’re in the middle of a situation. Old Rugged Cross. I got a funny story about that one. I got stories for everything. I got to share this. So we’re on a family vacation. My kids are young. I had an RV at the time. It was a barely running RV, man. We got in this thing. We’re going to the mountains. I had a big plane. We’re going to hit three state parks and come back. It’s going to be a three-day adventure. We’re in the western part of the state. I don’t even remember what area we were in. I think it was Fairy Stone. National Park. We were heading there. I look off to the side of the road and there’s this big antique shop looking place with a giant banjo on top of the building. There’s no cars in the parking lot. I said, I got to see if this place is open. This looks interesting. So we swing in and my son and my daughter, daddy, it’s got to be closed. There’s nobody here. I kept hearing music. So as we’re getting closer to one of the doorways, a gentleman saw me. He came out. He said, hey folks, how you doing? Real friendly. He said, he said, every Sunday, and this was Sunday, we were traveling, it was Sunday afternoon. He said, every Sunday, we all come together and we sing, you know, songs that we like here. And they were just having a hoedown in this place, like bluegrass. I mean, I’m doing bluegrass guy, but I, you know, I’m up for a good hymn and everything. So we get in there and there was on the stage, and I’m not exaggerating, a three-legged dog on the stage with this guy playing a banjo, two other gentlemen, harmonicas, the whole thing, the jug, Sweetest, kindest lady. It was the audience of like three of us as we’re sitting there, right?

[MCG]

The entire Dowling family.

[Eric]

Yes, we… All the stereotypes that you can think of were encompassed in this one event. And my children were terrified. They’re like, what are you doing? And they were like, hey, once you found out we were believers, you know, we start talking about, but my grandma’s favorite hymn was old rugged cross. It’s when I knew I could sing. They were like, brother, come on up and sing with us. So now my kids and my wife are just shaking their heads, sitting there watching me sing with these perfect strangers. And I cling to the old rugged cross. And And they had their version of it, and I was trying to keep up. And the three-legged dog sat there nice and obedient as we carried on through our concert. And that was a memory my kids won’t soon forget. They’re like, dad.

[MCG]

I bet.

[Eric]

Well, again, you know, we can have a lot of fun as believers.

[Jay]

Oh, sure, yes.

[Eric]

We miss out, I think, a lot of times when I left there with a couple of VHS tapes. And I mean, they’re giving me things at this point. You know, they had a petting zoo in this place, it was amazing. They’re trying to get my kids candy. My wife’s just trying to get out of there. And we laugh about that. And so yeah, old rugged cross, that one to preach.

[MCG]

Yeah, that’s one of my favorites as well.

[Jay]

What about your favorite giant of the faith? You mentioned Paul earlier, but is it the same or?

[Eric]

Well, obviously quite a few. As soon as you start talking about giants, you think of faith. You know, those that are named in Hebrews, the real heroes of the faith. I mean, it doesn’t get, in my opinion, any more faithful than Moses. I mean, you think of his life being abandoned, being raised in the environment that he was raised in, being called to take a people who wanted nothing to do with the movement. All they wanted was the results of it. You know, that’s what we are. We want the results of it. We don’t want to go through it. The amount of uncertainty. When I think about the story of the Ten Commandments, that moment when God revealed A portion of his backside, the glowing face, the moments that he shared, it had to be some of the loneliest moments, but the most fulfilling moments. You couple that with, it’s just brave. It was just a brave individual. So it would be hard to leave Moses out the top of that list. And then, you know, New Testament, obviously Paul. But what about, Shadrach, Meshach, Abednego. I mean, that story right there, whenever that is taught to the young people, that one was so compelling as a new Christian. And when I’m teaching it now, still, I relive the thought of being faced with the absolute worst way to die. And again, the picture of that story. I remember asking a kid not too long ago, do you believe that really happened? Oh, yes, sir. I said, no, do you really believe that happened that the way the Bible said it happened? Because if you say that, then what we’re saying is that we believe in a supernatural event that’s beyond anything. Brother, I worked on furnaces. I worked on boilers. I know what a million BTUs feels like on the tip of my finger, on a piece of iron. And to think that this furnace had been created, I mean, we’re talking about incineration temperatures. This isn’t And I remember picturing this as a mechanic, as one who’s worked on high temperature situations, crematories, but worked on these things. I’ve seen the results of it. The faith of these young men that they were just willing to go to the, to go to death, to face that, knowing, not just implying, that this was going to be okay. Like just knowing that no matter what was going to happen to them, that God was going to be with them to deliver them. It shrinks me and pales in comparison. Any type of faith, you know, that I can say that I’ve stepped out into. That was amazing that these boys’ names and identities were changed. the subjection that they were put through that wasn’t documented, the brainwashing that was attempted to take place to the moment that they were, I’ll try to think of it practically in modern time, the fact that they were just willing to deny the powers that were controlled their very life and death. Yeah. That is unlike anything that I’ve ever had to even come close to in my walk with Christ. And what an example, those young men. So those come to mind right away.

[Jay]

Praise God for that example, absolutely.

[MCG]

All right, brother, let’s wrap it up with this one. How can barriers be removed in the life of others? Think about your barriers to salvation and anyone that should listen to this episode. How can they have their barriers be removed?

[Eric]

You know, the gift of faith in Christ comes from God. The moment I was saved, the decision that was made to accept Christ for exactly who he said he was, was a gift.

[MCG]

Amen.

[Eric]

Ephesians 2, 8, 9. For by grace are we saved through faith and that not of ourselves. This is the gift of God. To answer that outside of that, I would be amiss and I wouldn’t even know how to approach it without the influence of the Holy Spirit in my life.

[MCG]

Right.

[Eric]

Your upbringing, the infrastructure where you come from, the culture that you live in, no height, no depth, right? No powers. I’m going to butcher the verse trying to remember nothing can separate us from the love of God. Amen. So when I accepted Christ as my savior, the events that led up to that were chipping away at a foundation that had been set by the hands of man. And those foundations are temporal. They’re not on a firm foundation. So anyone listening, I can guarantee you, no matter where you’re at, the lowest of lows, humanly speaking. That is a temporal dwelling. Because when the Holy Spirit comes to move in, he is not come to temporarily influence you. Can we reject it? Yes. But I would be amiss to say that all of the events leading up to my salvation didn’t play a huge part in me accepting Christ. There were circumstances that took place that not only compelled me, but also prepared me. I shared my upbringing, how I was open-minded because of certain things that happened in my home. I was seeking out peace and comfort in the world. I was seeking out identity in the world. And all I kept getting back was more confusion, no peace, no comfort, nothing that I could hang my hat on and say, hey, this is it. So obviously as a 24-year-old man, when the Holy Spirit came knocking that third, fourth, fifth time, whatever you want to equate that to, I had to make a decision. And I was either at that point going to reject obvious truth, or I was going to accept it and say, Hey, you know what? I’ve tried what the world has to offer, and all it’s really given me is scars. And I believe that There are some that would say, oh man, your situation wasn’t even that bad. I mean, I was addicted to heroin. I was a prostitute. I was abused by a pimp. I was molested as a child. None of that was in my life. What I’m saying is like the lowest of lows, humanly speaking, that you can think of, whatever in slavery that you’re in, because that’s what it is, the Holy Spirit and the foundation that Jesus Christ brings into one’s life is firm. And It is a structure in which I remember hearing this, that even if you decided to follow all of the biblical teachings in just a humanly way, just by the morality of it all, just follow all the moral concepts of the Bible, you would just lead a pretty good life. You would keep yourself out of a lot of trouble. And a lot of folks have done that. You know, morally speaking, you can attain these items, but that humanism isn’t going to last either. So that firm foundation that comes with a belief in Christ, trusting in that broken body and shed blood of the Lord Jesus is what made the difference in my life. Because now that foundation was built on something that I couldn’t attribute to anything that I had done. It was only because of what was done for me. And now I could wring my hands free of the guilt, of the shame, of the unforgiving heart that I had, and just say, you know what? The Bible is true. Everything that it says about me is true. I now agree with God that I’m a sinner and that Jesus died on the cross for my sins, and that now, after receiving Christ, I’m viewed as perfect and holy in him. It just made so much sense. But before, I was running from that because I still wanted to hang on to the things that I was comfortable with. And now in modern times, I mean, we’re talking about the barriers are even greater because some of the things that were mentioned in this podcast with the technology, being able to build our own little silos, like you mentioned, and our algorithms, I mean, ChatGPT, it just tells you what you want to hear because it’s basing it on your likes, your dislikes, the things that you’ve put into it already. There’s folks using this as counsel. It’s incredible. To break down those barriers, you’ve got to trust the fact that in the life of Paul, in the life of Moses, the ones that we just mentioned, Shadrach, Meshach, Abednego, heroes of the faith, David, the very God that brought them through insurmountable odds, can bring you through whatever you’re going through. It’s been documented. You know, if you’re one of these history buffs, you want to go back, it’s been documented. It has been proven. It has been archeologically proven. And I’m not one of those folks, but intangible in my own life. I’ve seen it in the life of others. The only hope we have is that Christ is going to crush those barriers in our life. And only independence and faith in him that can bring it.

[MCG]

Eric, it was indeed a pleasure. Thank you for joining us on the Removing Barriers podcast.

[Eric]

Thank you for having me.

[MCG]

Amen, brother.

[Jay]

This is the Removing Barriers podcast. If the podcast or the blog were a blessing to you, leave us a rating and a review on your favorite podcast platform. And don’t forget to share the podcast with your friends. Removing Barriers, A Clear View of the Cross.

[MCG]

Thank you for listening. To get a hold of us, to support this podcast, or to learn more about Removing Barriers, go to removingbarriers.net. This has been the Removing Barriers podcast. We attempted to remove barriers so that we all can have a clear view of the cross.