Episode 228

Courtney Mathos is a missionary to the country of Bolivia and she joins us on the Removing Barriers Podcast to share what God is doing on the field in that country. Bolivia is a largely Catholic country, but there are significant numbers of adherents to other religions and faiths, and many inhabitants practice syncretism with their ancestral religions. As a result, you never know what you’re going to encounter when you engage someone for Christ. For Courtney, a love of the Bolivian people and a deep desire to see Christ glorified is the driving force behind her dedicated work there. The Lord called her to the field during a missions internship, after He caused her to see that though she professed faith as a very young child, she was still trusting in her good works to make her righteous before a holy God. Join us as we discover how God is building His church in Bolivia, and what is being done to remove barriers so the Bolivians can have a clear view of the cross.

[Courtney]

Bolivia had presidential elections a week or two after I arrived for my internship. And so they ended up having countrywide strikes for three weeks. And I did not speak any of the language. All the roads were blocked off. We had to walk 45 minutes to church.

[Jay]

Thank you for tuning in to the Removing Barriers podcast. I’m Jay and I’m MCG. And we’re attempting to remove barriers, so we can all have a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

This is episode 228 of the Removing Barriers podcast. And this is the 27th in the series of On the Mission Field. And in this episode, we’ll be going on the mission field with missionary Courtney Matis to Bolivia. Courtney, it is indeed a pleasure. Welcome to the Removing Barriers podcast.

[Courtney]

It is such a pleasure to be here with you all tonight.

[MCG]

All right, well, let’s jump into it. Tell us about yourself, your calling, your family, whatever you feel comfortable sharing with the internet.

[Courtney]

Yeah, so I grew up in a Christian home. My parents started taking me to church when I was five. And I made a profession of faith at a young age, around 12, 11 or 12 years old, and was baptized. But all throughout high school, I really doubted my salvation A lot. I didn’t really grow in my faith. I wasn’t reading my Bible or anything like that regularly. I went to church regularly with my family, but that was about it. And after high school, I moved to a different city for work. And then I started attending a new church. And at that time, I realized that I was still trusting in my own works for salvation, being a good person and going to church. And then I put my faith and hope in Jesus Christ as my savior at the age of 21. And at that time, the Lord had sent some missionaries to my home church who told me about a Bible college. And so I felt the Lord calling me to go to Bible college because I was interested in missions a little bit, but really I just wanted to serve the Lord in whatever capacity He would allow me to and just learn more about the Bible. I really wanted to study my Bible for the first time in my life because I had not really done that, even though I had grown up in church. And so I moved to Georgia to go to Bible College in 2017. And then from there, the Lord just continued to direct my path to becoming a missionary.

[Jay]

And how long have you been on the mission field? And can you describe a little bit the process that the Lord brought you through to bring you to the realization that He wanted you to be serving in Bolivia?

[Courtney]

Yeah, so I have been in Bolivia for the past three years. So I just finished my first term, and the process was a little bit of a lengthy one. In Bible college, the Bible college I went to, they require a six-month internship on the foreign field with a missionary because they mainly focus on training missionaries in our Bible college. And the six-month is kind of like a testing period to see if missions really is your calling. because after six months on the field, if we’re not able to start learning the language, adapt to the culture, a lot of people realize even though they love missions and have a heart for missions, it’s not necessarily their call to be a missionary. And so as I was finishing up my classes and it was time for my internship, I had been to South America, to Colombia on a few missions trips previously, and I felt the call to go back to South America for my internship, but I wasn’t sure exactly what country. And I had a friend that met the missionaries I work with in Bolivia, and she suggested that maybe that would be a good fit for my internship. And so I decided to reach out to those missionaries down there. And it all, the Lord just opened the doors for me to be able to do my six-month internship in Bolivia. And so I went there in September of 2019 and then came home at the end of April 2020. And so my internship was not one of the easiest internships. Bolivia had presidential elections a week or two after I arrived for my internship. And so they ended up having a countrywide strikes for three weeks. And I did not speak any of the language. All the roads were blocked off. We had to walk 45 minutes to church. There were a few instances that were kind of scary with different mobs coming up in the road and towards the house that I lived in. And it was a very interesting 3 weeks for my first month on the field, on my internship. And then my last month was COVID, the lockdown in COVID. And we were in full-blown quarantine. We couldn’t leave the house except for one day a week to buy groceries. Oh my. And it was a very interesting six-month internship turned into seven months with the quarantine because I couldn’t leave the country. And I came back thinking, I don’t know if I could ever go back to Bolivia after that. just because of the craziness. But the Lord, he had other plans. I really fell in love with the country of Bolivia during the, it’s about four months of peace in the country when we were able to walk, just have normal life between the strikes and then between COVID. The culture in Bolivia is just so friendly and welcoming and warm. And the food in Bolivia is amazing and delicious. And so, and I loved the ministry. I loved the ministry that I was working in with the missionaries there and the churches that I was able to be a part of and serve in. And so I really just fell in love with the country. And so when I came home, that’s during COVID, I graduated from Bible College in August of 2020 after COVID had died down a little bit. And I wasn’t sure what my next steps would be. I felt the call to be a missionary. I had a burden for Bolivia after living there for six months and seeing the need of the gospel there and the need of more gospel workers. But I just wasn’t sure if I wanted to be a single missionary. And I think that’s what mainly was stopping me. I had a desire to get married, and I just was trying to figure out what God’s plan was for me in that area. And then I was reading in my devotionals one night in Ezekiel. And it was in chapter 33, I believe, when God was telling Ezekiel that he was to be a watchman for the Israelites. And if he didn’t warn them, their blood would be on his hands. And I felt like the Lord was pressing on my heart that I have the gospel, I have the good news. And there are people in Bolivia who need that, who need that good news. And he’s calling me to be a watchman. And I have the responsibility to share that with them, the good news with them. And if not, then their blood would be on my hands. And so I talked with all of the different leadership and with the missionaries in Bolivia. And I was like, I think the Lord is calling me to go back as a missionary, a full-time missionary to Bolivia. And he just completely opened the doors for me to be able to do that. And I started raising my support in January of 2021 and then left for the field in March of 2022.

[MCG]

Yeah. Wow. That’s kind of a quick deputation period. Usually two years.

[Courtney]

It was, yeah. Yeah, it was a year and three months on deputation.

[MCG]

Yeah, wow. Well, let’s go back a little bit to when you’re talking about your family and your upbringing, because I’m finding out after interviewing several missionaries and testimonies on the podcast that a lot of folks that get saved at an early age start either, you know, at some point doubting their salvation. And for you, it seemed like you weren’t saved at all. Now that you can look back at that period of your life, what do you think went wrong there? Was it a forced conversion? Was it, you know, not understanding something? What barriers do you think that was preventing you from seeing the cross clearly back then?

[Courtney]

That’s a really good question. I’ve not really thought too much about what exactly was keeping me from that. I think I just growing up in church, I just got used to it. I got comfortable in it. And especially growing up in the South in the United States, it was just such a common thing to be a Christian. Everyone is a Christian. Everyone loves God and knows Jesus. And so I think it just became just a routine for me to go to church on Sundays. And I think another issue was just the lack of discipleship in the church I grew up in. They’re a great church and I love them. They are still my family, but they don’t have any real discipleship program once you are saved. I mean, they have Sunday school and youth group. for the kids growing up in the church, but there’s no really life on life helping you grow in your Christian life on a daily basis with people. And I think that was a little bit of a hindrance. I feel like if there was more of that, I might have been able to realize it sooner. And I didn’t feel like there was anyone I could go to with my doubts of my salvation and say, Hey, I’m having these doubts. I’m not sure if I really am saved or not. Especially since I mean, I was serving in the children’s ministry. I was serving on the music ministry in the church in different areas. And so I felt like there is that added responsibility of I already am saved because I’m already doing the ministry and serving in the ministry as well.

[MCG]

Yeah, it sound like you were saying the barrier was cultural barrier of the felt, maybe the Bible both. and cultural barrier of the church you were in.

[Courtney]

A little bit, yeah, yeah. I feel like those would be the main issues there, yeah.

[MCG]

So let’s spin the globe a little bit and tell us, where in Africa is Bolivia? I’m sure you have gotten that question before.

[Courtney]

Yeah. Well, usually it gets confused with Belize. Okay. Yeah. But Bolivia is in South America. And it is landlocked, so it’s between Chile and Brazil. And they have Peru up in the north and then Argentina down in the south as well.

[Jay]

Okay, you talked earlier about the food being delicious, the people being wonderful. Can you tell us more about Bolivia. What’s the capital city? What’s the breakup of the population? I’m thinking more of the demographics in terms of perhaps different faiths and perhaps different people or ethnic groups, those types of things. What more can you tell us about Bolivia and the need for the gospel there?

[Courtney]

So in the country of Bolivia, there’s about 12 million people. We serve in the city of Cochabamba, which is one of the three biggest cities in the country of Bolivia. And in the city of Cochabamba, there’s probably about one and a half million people. The capital city is La Paz, which is known for being the highest capital city in the world, because it’s up in the Andes Mountains. And then Cochabamba is in the valley in the Andes Mountains. As far as religion goes, it’s predominantly Catholicism in Bolivia. And then they have a lot of indigenous beliefs as well. So it’s when the Spaniards came over and conquered Bolivia, then they brought over the Catholic religion. They wanted the Bolivians to take part of the Catholic Church. And so the Bolivians come from the Incas and Aymaris and other indigenous tribes. So rather than saying, you can’t practice and have these indigenous traditions anymore. They just melted them into the Catholic Church. So a lot of them have a mixed culture where they are part of the Catholic Church, they worship the Virgin Mary, they pray to God, they go to mass, but then they also offer sacrifices to false gods. They have the Pachamama or Mother Earth, and they have different sacrifices that they make to her. They have, they call him El Tio, which translates to the uncle. And they have a little statue of him actually behind a Catholic church, like back of a Catholic church, and they’ll make sacrifices to him during different holidays, mainly carnival in February. And they have other false gods as well that they sacrifice to and different traditions that they have. And so the people of Bolivia grow up with It’s kind of like in the South, the cultural Christianity where they go to church and they believe in God, but they don’t believe in Jesus and they don’t understand that their good works can’t save them or that sacrificing to these false gods actually doesn’t give them any blessings or hope for their future at all.

[MCG]

When you say sacrifice, are you talking about like animal sacrifice or something else? If it’s not graphic, can you go into it?

[Courtney]

Oh, yeah. So they have different sacrifices depending on the different holidays and the different gods. So for the Pachamama, on the first Friday of every month, they will burn incense to her outside of their homes or outside of their businesses. And so you smell the incense all throughout the city. They also have, I believe it comes from the Incas, where they worship the sun god and They actually do, they sacrifice like mama fetuses or goats or animal sacrifices with that. Or they have a holiday in August, at least in Cochabamba, called the Virgin Orgul Pina, where they make sacrifices where they just burn little trinkets. So whatever blessings they want throughout the year, if they want a house or a car, a passport or more money, they buy these little trinkets that they’re selling close to there, and then they burn them in a higher in hopes that that’s the blessing that they’ll receive that year.

[MCG]

Okay. And what percentage of Bolivia would you say are born again Christian compared to those that are cultural Catholics?

[Courtney]

I don’t have an exact percentage. I would probably say it would probably be very, very low because we also have a lot of different religions or cults, as some people call them, represented in Bolivia. We have Mormonism and we have the Jehovah’s Witness, charismatic churches and other things that are included in those numbers of people who say that they’re Christians, as well as the Catholic Church. And so it’s very hard to get a good number. or percentage of those who are actually born again.

[Jay]

If there are these different religions and large percent Catholic, or maybe there’s a syncretism going on between Catholics and the original and indigenous religions, would you say that Bolivia is an open country for missionaries to come to, or have you found that there’s some difficulty in sharing the gospel without resistance from the government or from the people?

[Courtney]

It is an open country. They have had a socialist president for two decades, In October, they just got a new president who is not socialist, which I think is a very good thing and hopefully will be a new thing that continues on for the future. But Bolivia has been an open country. We’re able to hand out tracts freely with anybody we meet. We’re able to share the gospel with people, do visitation, knock on doors, without the fear of getting in trouble with the government. Before the new president, there have been some issues with paperwork for some of the buildings, at least one of the properties where we’re trying to build a church where the government in that part of the town didn’t want a church there. So they were putting up a lot of red tape and delaying the process. We have the land, but delaying the process of building the church on that land has been delayed for actually coming on six years now. The missionary that I work with bought that land back in 2020, right before COVID. And they still don’t even have walls. They just kind of have like a foundation and a ceiling. But it’s been delayed for about 6 years now trying to build there. Other than that, the paperwork stuff, it’s an open country. We’re able to freely share the gospel.

[MCG]

Well, let’s go back to when the Lord first burden your heart for Bolivia. Dive into that and tell us more about why Bolivia.

[Courtney]

Yeah, so when I first went on my internship, it was mainly for the missionaries that I work with to be able to learn from them. But it was during my internship, those six months there, seeing how lost without hope these Bolivians are. I was there for my internship during the celebration of Carnival, which I’m not sure if you’re very familiar with the holiday of Carnival celebrated in different countries. I know in the States, it mainly goes by the in New Orleans, Mardi Gras is tied along with that. Brazil is really big in Brazil as well. But during that two weeks before Carnival, the guys go out and they call it compadres and they drink and they party. And then the following week, the women go out and they drink and they party. And then on Carnival, they have the different raids. And I don’t know how it is in other countries, at least in Bolivia, in the city of Oruro, it’s a mining city in the Andes Mountains. And that’s where they have a Catholic church that’s built into the side of the mountain. And in the back of that, they have the statue to the devil that they sacrificed to get favor and blessings in the mining throughout the years and for protection. And then throughout the cities, all throughout Bolivia, they have parades and they have all the different costumes and masks in their parades. And honestly, they’re very demonic in style and kind of creepy to me to look at them. But all of their dances in those parades are dances to the devil that they’re doing. But the kids think that it’s just a fun weekend when they get to play with water balloons and water guns and throw water balloons at people. But the behind it, the real reason that they’re celebrating is to worship the devil basically. And Seeing there being in Bolivia during that holiday really opened up my eyes to the need of the gospel and for more gospel laborers to be there. The missionaries I work with have been in Bolivia for almost 20 years, and they’ve started four churches. But at least with our mission board, they are the only ones that’s been in Bolivia. They’ve been by themselves working in the ministry for most of that time without any help. And so seeing the need and the lack of workers there in Bolivia, the Lord just really pressed on my heart. the need for me to go back.

[Jay]

Amen. I’m glad you said that, Courtney, because I think that because here in the 21st century, we are an educated and advanced bunch, so people that worship the different deities of their culture, that’s just, you know, You know, it’s just the spirit of their culture, it’s their history, it’s their ancestry. That’s what they would call it, but we should call it what the Bible calls it. They are devils, they are demons, and they are idols that are idols before a holy God. And I think that in our world today, folks would like to make us feel bad because we’re talking about different aspects of someone’s culture and calling it demonic. but that’s exactly what keeps these large swaths of people groups spiritually ensnared and praise God for missionaries like yourself and others that are willing to take the light of the gospel to these places where they are literally worshiping devils and demons and some of them unawares because it’s just their culture and others absolutely know what it is that they’re doing so I praise God for your willingness to answer the call. What are some of the things that folks should keep in mind if they perhaps feel that God might be calling them to serve in Bolivia? What would you say to someone that thinks that God might be calling them to your mission field?

[Courtney]

I would say, come on, let’s go.

[Jay]

We need help. We need workers. Come on. Yes.

[Courtney]

We need people. I’m always telling, especially when I visit the Bible college down in Georgia that I attended with more people in the Bible college who are interested in missions and looking for God’s will in their life. I’m like, choose Bolivia. Like Bolivia in the world alone is overlooked. I didn’t even know Bolivia was a country until I was going for my internship and trying to figure out where to go. I don’t remember ever learning about Bolivia. in high school or in school growing up. And so it’s very overlooked, not just in the world, but also in Latin America. And so I say, come on, we need all of the help that we can get. We need more laborers. And it’s not always easy. It’s a little bit of an underdeveloped country. It’s a poor country. So we won’t have all of the luxuries that we have here in the United States. We don’t have Amazon. We don’t have Walmart. We don’t even have McDonald’s. But it’s a beautiful country. And so I would welcome anyone who would be willing to come down and help us.

[MCG]

How do you handle the differences in culture in Bolivia, with you being a southern gal? I know you’re in South America.

[Courtney]

Yeah, there are quite a few things that give me culture shock in Bolivia. Public transportation would be the main one. And paperwork, any type of paperwork or visa paperwork. When I bought my car, it took me 3 weeks to change the name over, which in the States, it’s like an hour or two tops. So there are quite a few things that do give me culture shock, but I think recognizing it for what it is, knowing that the frustration is normal. And just taking it to God and asking for grace to be able to just live in it and forbear with those differences and realize it’s going to be a struggle because I’m not Bolivian. As much as I would love to be Bolivian, it’s not normal to me to show up 30 minutes late to church, but it is for them because that’s their culture. You say church starts at 10, they’re going to leave their house at 10 rather than leave at 9.30 to get there at 10. And so just realizing and having grace for them and also for myself in those struggles.

[Jay]

Let’s talk about the role that culture plays when you are seeking to reach them for the gospel. You mentioned how the religious breakdown includes Catholicism, the syncretism between Catholicism and their indigenous religions, and then you’ve got different religions there as well. Do you find that when you interact with people in Bolivia that you are living in more of an Acts chapter 2 culture where there’s a basic understanding of God, they understand sin, or is it more like Acts 17 where where they don’t know God from Adam and you have to start at Ground Zero.

[Courtney]

I really feel like there’s a mix of both of them.

[Jay]

Okay.

[Courtney]

There are some people, especially the ones who are more culturally Catholic and go to mass. They know who God is. They know who Mary and Jesus are. They just have the truth mixed up where they believe that they have to be a good person or pay the church. or pray to Mary because they can’t bother Jesus. He’s too important for them to pray to. And so you have those people who do have a basic understanding, and we have to biblically show them from the Bible that that’s not the way to heaven. That’s not being a good person is not what saves you, or paying enough money, or doing all of these things is not what saves you. And then you have the people who are, I would say they probably are the more rural Bolivians. the people who have the more indigenous side to them, who are more involved in the indigenous beliefs aspect, who has a little bit lesser view and don’t really know who God is at all. I went to La Paz, to the capital, with my language school teacher, and she grew up in a very small town outside of the city, and her parents still live there. And they’re like, yeah, they believe in God. And I was like, believing in God is not what saves you. Even the devil believes in God. But you have to know who Jesus is and believe in his finished work in the cross to be able to be saved. And so you’re kind of dealing with a lot of different people. Or if you come in contact with the people who talk to Mormons or talk to the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and then you really have to understand what they believe as well to be able to come back the lies that they are trying to tell people and shame with people as well.

[Jay]

Can you imagine being someone lost in Bolivia, right? And let’s say you’re believing in the religion of your ancestors, and then a Mormon gets to you and converts you to Mormonism, right? So that’s one level. So you’ve got two levels of confusion there. And then finally, when someone like you walks up, you’re going to have to undo all of that nonsense, essentially, right? It’s like a frog jumping out of the pot and into the fire. You just can’t get ahead. And again, people that are willing to take the true gospel to lost souls in these different countries where there is no gospel witness, that is something that we ought to worship and praise God for because they absolutely need the gospel light. So when you talk about the culture being Acts chapter 2 in some places, Acts 17 in some places, what would you say are some of the things that would make it easier and help you you to get your mission done on a daily basis in Bolivia? What are some of the needs that you have that if they were filled, it would make your job of sharing the gospel easier there?

[Courtney]

Oh man, I think just more time, just more time to be able to spend time. Because sometimes you just meet someone quickly and you’re trying to hand them a gospel tract. Or for an example, I was getting my hair cut before coming home on furlough and I was talking with the lady as she was washing my hair. And she’s like, yeah, I met with my friend. She’s A Jehovah’s Witness. And she was telling me all of this stuff. And I’m just like, don’t believe her. Yeah. Essentially, you know, like, oh, you know, and without saying your friend is wrong and just coming out and being rude about it, trying to just slowly introduce her to the idea that the true gospel, but then, you know, the hair cuts over and you’re like, well, now what? You know, it’s I think just more time to be able to, because it’s not a quick once share gospel with someone. There are those people who get saved after hearing the gospel one time, but most of the time it’s a process. Meeting with them, studying the Bible with them more than once to be able to kind of unpack the lies that they have been believing their whole lives.

[MCG]

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Would you say that there’s anything the church in the US is doing that make your task or your mission more difficult in Bolivia? You know, sometimes maybe, for instance, it might be the culture of the US that they look at the culture of the US and think it might be the Catholic Church, or they might be, you’re not being funded as you would like. I think it’s not money, but is there anything the church in the US they’re doing that will prevent you or making your task a bit more difficult?

[Courtney]

I feel like there are the younger generation of Bolivia who, with social media and movies, know more about the culture here in the United States. But most Bolivians, the average Bolivian probably is not as influenced by that, especially the older generations who probably don’t even really know how to work Facebook very well.

[Jay]

Right.

[Courtney]

And so there’s nothing specific that I can really think of. I mean, all the churches that I’ve been visiting, the churches I visited on reputation, the churches this past year, they’ve all been amazing. I’ve really enjoyed them. They They’ve all seemed to have a heart and a burden for mission and getting more missionaries to the foreign field to be able to share the gospel. The only thing I can really think of is just the people who, I’m trying to say this delicately, probably, who are more legalistic in a sense. And it can feel more like a religion that they’re trying to push on someone rather than sharing the true gospel. with them, because they’re saying, you have to have church in this manner without allowing some of the cultural, Bolivian culture to enter into it, but trying to make churches, American, United States churches in Bolivia, rather than having Bolivian churches. If that makes sense.

[Jay]

That does make sense.

[MCG]

Yeah, definitely. I’m from the Caribbean and I’m from a country where missionaries come to, so I know exactly what you’re saying, that their American missionaries come and they expect the singing and their art of the service and everything to be, you know, what they’re accustomed to in the US without having any flavor of the culture in there.

[Courtney]

Right.

[MCG]

I’ve spoken to some missionaries about it. It’s always come down to this. If the aspect of the culture is not sinful, I think it’s okay to allow that.

[Courtney]

Definitely.

[MCG]

Let them identify with their country because that’s where they’re from. Just like you identify as American because that’s where you’re from. So.

[Courtney]

Right.

[MCG]

Yeah, definitely. All right. Well, you’re listening to the Removing Barriers podcast. We’re sitting down with missionary Courtney, and we’re learning all about her mission field in Bolivia. We’ll be right back.

[Jay]

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[MCG]

All right, Courtney, let’s go into a little bit of a fun section and find out some of your favorites. Let’s start with your favorite scripture verse.

[Courtney]

My favorite scripture verse, I’ve had a few throughout the years. Right now, recently, it’s been Ephesians 2, 4-5 that says, but God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ. By grace are ye saved. I really love this passage Because before this verse in one through three, Paul is talking about how we used to be dead in our sins, all the things that we were before. But then he says, just that one word, there’s two words, but God. Without God, we wouldn’t be here. But God in his mercy and his love, who sent his son to die on the cross.

[Jay]

Amen. Of all the historical accounts in scripture, which one is your favorite?

[Courtney]

Oh, there’s so many to choose from. Recently, I had a class on Exodus. So right now I want to say it’s probably Moses. Just seeing how all of the excuses he tried to make to get out of God calling him to lead the Israelites, I could really identify with that. Those were some of my same excuses when God was calling me to go back to Bolivia as a missionary. But then seeing how God was like, I made your mouth. It doesn’t matter how you speak. I’m going to give you the words to speak and the abilities to be able to do it. And so right now, I want to say that’s probably one of my favorites.

[MCG]

Amen. All right. What about the most convicting scripture passage or verse for you?

[Courtney]

Oh. That’s a hard one as well. I think I’m just going to go back to Ezekiel 33 and the Watchmen. Every time I think about it or read through it again in my devotions time, it just takes me back to the need of the gospel and our responsibility as Christians to be able to share the gospel with those that don’t have it.

[Jay]

Amen. Now, which scripture do you turn to when you need comfort? What’s the most comforting scripture, in your opinion?

[Courtney]

And most comforting right now, again, it changes throughout time. Right. now, it is 1 Corinthians chapter 1, verses 26 through 31, where Paul is saying that God doesn’t call the strongest and the most noble people, but he calls the weak to be able to serve God. And the reasoning that he gives at the bottom is because we are to boast not in our own strengths, but we are to boast in God and give him all the glory, because we can’t do anything in our own strengths. But we should be boasting and the grace and the abilities that God gives us.

[MCG]

Amen. At the fear of us asking you to sing this one, what’s your favorite hymn of the faith?

[Courtney]

I want to say throughout time, it has to be it is well with my soul. Just knowing the story behind it and how the writer had lost everything in the most tragic moment of his life, he just wrote it and he’s saying, it is well, it is all well. And no matter what we’re facing, we can trust in God and his plan for our lives.

[Jay]

Amen. Of all of the heroes and giants of the faith, which one would you say is your favorite?

[Courtney]

I always go back to Joseph, just all of the stuff that his brothers put him through and then Potiphar and being put in prison for all those years. It was all God’s design and God’s plan for his life to prepare him and bring him to the place to be able to be the one that saves the Israelites, and then just the forgiveness that he had for his brothers at the end of that, who were so scared. His brothers were so scared that he was going to punish them and do some horrible stuff once their father died. But he said, it was all God’s plan, and I’m here for a reason. And so even though they were acting in malice and with mean intentions, it was all God’s plan that he used in Joseph’s life.

[MCG]

Amen. What would you say are some of the biggest barriers to the people of Bolivia from seeing or receiving the gospel?

[Courtney]

The biggest barriers, I just keep going back to the cultural barriers and thinking about how it is here in the south. I mean, in the Bible Belt, it’s so hard to reach the cultural Christians, because they already believe that they’re saved. And I want to say that’s probably the hardest in Bolivia, the ones who are so seeped in the Catholicism, who believe that they’re already good and that they’re already going to heaven. because of their good works, trying to unweave the webs of lies that they’ve been believing their whole lives and show them biblically that they aren’t saved. That’s probably one of the hardest barriers of giving the gospel to them.

[MCG]

Yeah, let me just tie this in a little bit because You know, at times we may not appreciate or at times we would have probably have it another way in terms of where you grew up, the fact that you thought you were saved and you know, but getting saved at 21. But if you tie it now, the Lord probably uniquely put you through that for now you can identify with the people of Bolivia where they might be culturally Catholic or culturally Christian. And you can uniquely say, you know what, I understand what they’re going through because I’ve been through it. You know, our last episode was a testimony from Eric and his unique upbringing where his mother will allow people to come and crash on their couch overnight. And when he got saved, within a week, he moved out of his apartment and moved in with a total stranger, deacon of the church, because he was living with his girlfriend at the time. And the pastor told him, hey, you can’t be doing that anymore. And he moved in with a total stranger. But to him, he was normal. Because growing up, his mother had strangers sleeping on their couch. So the Lord sometimes used our upbringing, our background for ministry, even though many times he might say, hey, you know what? I wish he was a little bit different.

[Courtney]

Right, definitely. Yeah, I totally agree.

[Jay]

So when you talk about those barriers that face the Bolivian people, those barriers to salvation, the barriers that exist that prevent them from seeking the cross clearly. How can those barriers be removed? How do you share the gospel with them? How do you help them see? And how does the Lord remove those barriers in the hearts of the Bolivian people?

[Courtney]

It really, as I mentioned earlier, it just takes time. Most of them… if they visit church one time and you just share the gospel with them, they’re probably not going to understand it. But we have some discipleship lessons that we go through with them that presents the gospel with them for the first few lessons. So that way you’re able to take time to truly explain the gospel and taking them through different, just different verses in the Bible to kind of combat all the lies that they have been believing for so long. But it doesn’t happen overnight. I mean, there’s a young man who got saved last year, right before we came home on furlough. And the missionary I work with, Kevin, he, I don’t even know how many times met with him for coffee. It was over the course of at least six months that he would meet with him. over and over again sharing the gospel with him before he finally came to a place where he understood the gospel and was able to get saved and then get baptized. And so it’s not always a quick thing, but taking them through those discipleship lessons and showing them in the Bible, ’cause a lot of them, even though they go to a Catholic church, they don’t even read the Bible, ’cause they may not even own a Bible. And so showing them from the Bible what it truly means, salvation, the gospel and salvation.

[MCG]

Amen. Well, Courtney was indeed a blessing. Thank you for joining us on the Removing Barriers podcast.

[Courtney]

Yeah, thank you so much. It’s been so great being able to talk with you all about Bolivia.

[MCG]

All right.

[Jay]

Thank you so much for listening to the Removing Barriers podcast. Make sure to rate us everywhere you listen to podcasts, including Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or Stitcher. Removing Barriers, a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

Thank you for listening. To get a hold of us, to support this podcast, or to learn more about removing barriers, go to removingbarriers.net. This has been the Removing Barriers podcast. We attempted to remove barriers so that we all can have a clear view of the cross.