Episode 212

The assassination and martyrdom of Charlie Kirk at a Prove Me Wrong event at Utah Valley University is already going down in history as one of those events where everyone remembers where they were when it happened. Only time will tell how it will reverberate in the future. Charlie Kirk was many wonderful things, especially a husband and father, but the most important thing about him was his faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Savior of the World. He was on the front lines at university campuses nationwide, challenging the indoctrination students are subjected to, presenting clear and genuine arguments against the world system and promoting biblical values as solutions to the problems we are facing today. He was cut down by an assassin’s bullet very publicly and gruesomely, shocking the world and instantly revealing the depth of the rift in the population: people took to social media immediately to show their true colors. Did he deserve to die? Was he actually a racist? Was he even really a martyr? Recurring guest Sam joins us on this episode as we discuss all this and more today on the Removing Barriers Podcast.

[Openning Clip]

But when did you accept Christ?

5th grade at Christian Heritage Academy I remember.

What happened?

I mean, I was kind of, I heard a hot gospel. And so I realized the stakes in fifth grade. I was like, oh, my goodness, I’m a Sinner. I’m selfish, I’m broken. And only thanks to Jesus’s perfect sacrifice coming and living a perfect life that I get something I do not earn but has been given to me. This free gift of eternal life.

[Jay]

Thank you for tuning in to the Removing Barriers podcast. I’m Jay and I’m MCG. And we’re attempting to remove barriers so we can all have a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

This is episode 212 of the Removing Barriers Podcast. And in this episode. We will be looking at the incidents surrounding the death of Charlie Kirk by an Assassin’s bullet. One Tyler James Robertson has been charged with a crime and is awaiting trial.

[Jay]

Hi, this is Jay. MCG and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to: removingbarriers.net and subscribing to receive all things, removing barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at removing barriers.net/donate, removing barriers, A clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

And Co hosting with us in this episode is a recurring guest. Sam. Sam, welcome back to the Removing barriers podcasts even though you’re not a guest at this point.

[Sam]

Well, I have to work. On. This I had already said in my mind, I’m not going to say your name, so let me start again. MCG, Jay, thanks. Thanks for having me.

[MCG]

Great, great. Alright, so our dear brother in Christ. Charlie Kirk. And I think he was indeed a brother in Christ. As you heard from his testimony opening there. Was assassinated for those who have not heard because you know, you will think that a lot of folks have heard of Charlie Kirk. But I’ve spoken to a number of people, a few, but not a whole lot, but a few who told me they have never heard of him until this happened. So let me shoot it to you, Jay. Maybe you can tell us. Unfortunately, we have to say in past and. Who was Charlie Kirk?

[Jay]

That’s still so crazy in my ears to hear. Who was Charlie Kirk? But I would imagine now he has near 100% name recognition. But like you said, for those who don’t know, he was an activist, a political activist, that. Founded Turning Point USA, I should say, co-founded turning Point USA with Bill Montgomery and turning Point USA is an organization. They call it a right wing advocacy, but it was really an organization really trying to advocate for and engage the youth, particularly on college campuses for traditional and. Conservative values for family, for faith, for those things that the country seems to have lost. And he saw very early on that a lot of the rot and. And the deterioration of these conservative values were happening at the college level. I remember him saying once that there’s like, this systematized, intentional effort on college campuses throughout the United States to demoralize and break down the youth so that they would be. More open to and willing to embrace more left-leaning. Maybe in some cases even more radical. Political and social and spiritual leanings, and so his organization, TP USA, which is a teepee, is turning Point USA, sought to fight against that. What he would do, he would go on to campuses and hold open debates. He’d set up a tent, sit under there with a mic and invite college students to debate the issues, to talk about the. Issues. Why family, why faith? Why this policy or that policy? This politician or that politician, and so politically you could say, that’s who he was. But he was also a very outspoken, unashamed Chris. Who always sought to, and I’ve seen this many times when he engaged with students on campus, he always sought to draw them and point them to Christ. Why? Why is Christ the answer to their questions, their angst, their loneliness? They’re this. They’re that he would engage with students on that really raw, fundamental level. And he was very much outspoken, never shield away from it. And he was very effective. He was very, very, very effective, if not for anything else. Turning point USA and him in particular made other Conservative students on campus who had been marginalized for decades on college campuses silenced on college campuses. He made them realize, hey, these positions that I hold are not as crazy as everyone around me would like to think. And I’m not alone. I can speak up. I can be bold for Christ, just like Charlie Kirk is being bold for Christ. And so he was a fantastic example in that particular way. And he was effective. And many people believe that’s why he was assassinated. But that’s who. Sane people would consider Charlie Kirk to be if you ask people on the left, they would tell you that Charlie Kirk was a bigot, a racist, a fill in the blank of all of the left wing buzzwords just because he did not agree with their position. And to this day that rhetoric continues. So who was Charlie Kirk? I suppose it depends on who you ask. But in a nutshell, that’s who he was, which is still so weird to say that’s who he was only 31 years old when he was.

[MCG]

Assassinated. Yeah. And he started turning Point USA when he was only 18. But don’t forget, he was also a husband and a father, which is very important there.

[Jay]

Yes, his wife. Very important, his wife, Erica, Erica Kirk, and his two little ones, if I remember straight the three and one. I think their ages are so.

[MCG]

Yeah. All right. Well, let’s talk about the circumstances around is that and then we come back to a little bit more talk about that the circumstances for running is that so as we know it was the afternoon of September 10th while doing a turning point activity similar to what Jay said right, he was at the Utah Valley University. Doing what he does, you know, debate prove me wrong and I think it was about mid afternoon or so around that time. You know, there was a gunshot, one single gunshot that was fired. And unfortunately, he struck him somewhere around his neck area. And because he was fired from a high caliber rifle and hitting volatile areas, I’m pretty sure based upon the graphic images that all of us probably have seen at this point had to hit. Blood vessels and account. To the high witnesses from his #1A service that he died right away. Why was he killed? Well, we mentioned the killer’s name in the opening and their text messages that the FBI has put out there that he said that I had enough of his hatred. Some hate cannot be negotiated out. So circumstances, what is that? Well, we know Tyler Robinson is accused of his death at this point and is awaiting child. As I said, I’m going to bring you in, Simon, that any comments table? Well, actually, let me ask you this. What were the emotions that you first feel? I’m not your man and I’m not asking about emotions. But you are young father with kids. Charlie curse page. What were the emotion when you first heard the news? What? Come over you first. Where were you? What came over you and stuff like that?

[Sam]

Yeah. I’ll take that, Charlie Kirk. Sage. I’ll definitely take that. No, I’m a little bit older than Charlie, but not too far from him. We’ll say that. Yeah, I guess. First emotions that hit me. Wow, that’s a tough question. I know. In that day, when I found out I was going through disbelief, there’s no way he was actually a shot. And then I guess after a while, I start to think, OK. Well, he’s been shot, but he’s at the hospital. I haven’t heard anything further, so maybe it’s not so bad. I did not see the footage, so I didn’t know at the time how bad it was, but later on I did hear from one of my brother in laws that there was a lot of blood coming from his neck, so I don’t know if that’s true or not because I guess I haven’t seen the footage. But hearing that made me think, oh, that’s not good and so. Yeah, I mean, it was disbelief. Then it turned into this is not good. I know me and my family, we prayed for him, but I think by the time we had prayed, Charlie had already passed, but we didn’t know that yet. So it’s just tough, you know? And then, like you mentioned being a father for me since becoming a father, I feel like before I was a father, I did not value life. I did on principle. Yep. But not in my heart, if that makes any. Sense.

[Jay]

Makes total sense, yeah.

[MCG]

Yeah, you didn’t have a life to protect.

[Sam]

But then. Yeah.

Speaker

Well.

[Sam]

Something like that. Yeah. I think having to care for because I remember when Amy was born and I was actually 30. Then when she was born. If that gives you any idea for. How old I am? Not very old, but anyway. So I remember. When Amy was born, that was a little overwhelming and I just remember feeling the weight. Of now, I have a wife to care for, but that wasn’t. 2 new We had gotten married not quite a year before, but then in addition to caring for wife, now I have a baby to care for, and I don’t know what it is. It’s the motion which to me, emotion is not so logical always, but just having a baby to care for made me think about life differently. I I would say yeah. And so now to see.

[MCG]

Right.

[Sam]

This young man, I would consider him young. He’s younger than my youngest sibling to see him pass away. That’s tough because you think about his parents. Yeah. And the pain that they’re going through. And then of course, I’m married. So then I think about, well, what is the spouse feeling? How would Elissa feel if she was in that site? Equation you know and then of course you think about the children that he has and that he has to take care of, and now they don’t have a dad. So it’s just tough. And so, yeah, I guess that gives a little bit of an idea as to the emotional state I was in. I guess then later on maybe it was it turned to anger because I think Charlie, he was doing a lot of good things. Yeah, he’s doing good things politically. He was doing good things for the gospel, although maybe the best. He’s done for the Gospels after his death.

Speaker

MHM.

[Sam]

In that at his funeral, people preached the gospel over and over again. Or at least that’s what seemed like to me. And then I’m looking at the promise that he has going into the future. We have election season coming up and I think he could have been really helpful there. And then people are talking about it someday. He could be governor later on. He could even be president. And one of the things I was thinking. And I know people feel different ways about him. I look at Trump’s boy, this is getting. When did, maybe I should stop?

[Jay]

No, please.

[Sam]

OK. Yeah. So I was looking at Trump in the past, and in my opinion, just from a historical perspective, whether you like him or not, Trump is a major figure in world history. Yeah. I try to think of somebody like other people that Trump would be competing with. And in my opinion, because I went back. Through the historical records. Not because of Trump, but just because I like looking at history and people are saying certain things about George Washington, you would see how people around the world, even the Japanese, were talking about George Washington a lot. He was highly revered in Japan, which I thought was funny. Like Japan knew about America back in the 1700s, but clearly they did. And they considered George Washington to be one of the bravest men in the world. And maybe I’m a little biased. What not. But I kind of think that Trump is like. In that Echelon, where you have people like, maybe you might say, Reagan, I think is easy comparison. I would throw up there. Abraham Lincoln, George Washington.

[Jay]

Sure. Yeah.

[Sam]

I would throw in there. This is going to sound crazy, Cyrus. King David, like those kind of figures in my mind and so to me, I thought, wow, it’s crazy to live in a time when we have a figure like.

[Jay]

Yeah.

[Sam]

Trump, and then he’s our leader and there’s a lot of things that Trump does that I don’t like, but it’s all crazy to me to be in this kind of, like, historical period. There’s a. Lot of things. Trump does that. I do like too. But for me it’s just interesting because after Charlie’s death, maybe a few days later, I start to think about it. And I was like, wow, you know what I was thinking? Wow, Trump is this big figure. And he’s charismatic, but he also has a lot of detractors. And then I like him because he’s conservative, but then he’s not. He doesn’t seem to be so strong in the Bible if you ask me. Well, I see he’s conservative and really, he’s. Compared to the Democrats, he’s conservative. But anyway, to me, it’s like, wow, Charlie Kirk to me, he seems a bit more conservative than Trump. I would say he definitely seems to be more well versed in the Bible and he seems to have a tremendous amount of charisma. He seems to be very capable or seemed to be.

[Jay]

Right.

[Sam]

And to me, the question is if he were President of the United States, even though he was interviewed a little bit ago and he said he was not at all interested. But if he were to be president of the United States, would he be another figure at that level, you know? And I think he might very well have been. Who knows, maybe in the aftermath of his death, we might rank him pretty highly. Anyway, it’ll be interesting to see. So, yeah, that’s my emotion and thoughts about the death of Charlie.

[MCG]

Yeah, yeah, I was at work that day, and I have two phones. You know my personal phone and I don’t have any social media apps or anything on there because I don’t have personal social media. But since we started the podcast, I had another phone where I used just for podcast stuff. So I have some news app on there and stuff like that that I don’t have my personal phone and I. Remember seeing that he got shot and the first thing that came to my mind was it was something more towards like, what happened to President Trump. He was nicked and they’re taking him to the hospital and stuff like that. But then I saw the first video and he was a distant. Did you? So I still say, OK, maybe he was nicked or something. You know, trying to read whatever case. Maybe then I saw that close up video and I was defeated because, like, wow. It was really bad and I remember texting some friends and say, hey, if he survived this, it is because of the hand of God, the mercy of God, because the way it looked, the awfulness of it, the. However, if you want to put it that way, was really sad. First thing I came over to my mind as well after that was sadness, anger. But then I guess the third one was fear, even though I wouldn’t describe it that way. I was gonna describe it as man, should I go and get some defensive tools or something? What’s going on in this country? But. Yeah, that was my initial emotional. The sequence of things that happened because the news came out pretty quick, I think I heard about it probably based on the timing. Definitely less than an hour, but probably less than 1/2 an hour after it happened. It was already circling around, at least the initial fact that he was shot. I think it took a little bit longer for him to be declared dead, even though we know now that he was probably dead within some seconds. So that. Yeah, I’ll shoot it over to you, Jay.

[Jay]

Yeah, you were the one that sent me a message and said Charlie Kirk may have been shot. And I remember my initial reaction. I don’t know if I should be ashamed to say this, but it really was. Was rage and disbelief was my initial reaction. I didn’t want to engage with it. I did not want to find out more about it. I didn’t Google it, I didn’t even. It was almost as if if I ignore this then maybe it’s not real if I just ignore this, maybe it’ll go away sort of reaction. It wasn’t until I wanna say it was a a few hours later. Where I could pull myself to go online and see what had happened. And I’m sorry I did, because by the time I went online to see what had happened, the close up video was already circulating and when I saw that. I knew he was dead instantly. There’s just like you said, barring a miracle, there was no way he survived that shot, because what I saw was arterial and jugular instantly severed because of the different. Types of the types of blood pouring out like a faucet. Not to be too graphic that I just knew instantly that he was gone. And I remember feeling so incredibly angry. And of course, very, very, very sad. I don’t remember the last time I cried for someone that I had never met, and this wasn’t just, you know, cry for a few minutes. I cried over a period of days for that man, for his family and for everyone that knew him. That was just a really, really, really bad day. And I think a lot of people. Probably felt the same way, but. Sadly, there were millions of people who were rejoicing and were pretty crass and brazen about it online. And yeah, if I didn’t have godly friends that help help me reset and look at things from a godly perspective, I could have gone down a pretty dark rabbit hole that day just for all of the emotions that came flooding. Just the indignation at how they were rejoicing at his death and the anger, the shock, the rage, the sadness, all of it. Just a torrent of emotion, and I know women and. I know women have the what is it? Reputation of being emotional creatures and all that sort of thing. But I felt pretty much everything under the sun minus happiness. Seeing and hearing about that terrible news.

[MCG]

Yeah, yeah. You know, there’s a lot of debate out there concerning whether Charlie was a matter or not. I think everybody can agree at this point that he was assassinated. So this is an assassination. But would you put him in the category of being a martyr, or do you think this was just a murder? He was an assassination or both. Not true that.

[Sam]

To your son? Yeah, I think it’s both. But I can see why people may struggle with that. I think I do just a little bit too well. I guess it also depends on like what your definition of martyr is, you know, cause some people martyr to me the strictest definition of martyr is somebody who dies out of persecution against their faith, if you will. So. Clearest example for us I think would be Stephen. In the New Testament, and they stoned him because he was preaching God’s word, and so did Charlie Kirk. Promote the gospel. Was he very outspoken Christian? I would argue yes. In fact, I was watching a video I watched several videos, but one was like a few days. I think it was like the Saturday. Was it Saturday? Sundays summer. I don’t remember. It was just a few days before the shooting. I want to say the shooting was on a Wednesday, right. If I remember correctly. OK, so yeah, the weekend before that, he was at some event and some young. I think he was an adolescent, maybe 12 year old kid was ask.

[Jay]

It was, yeah.

[Sam]

Charlie for some life advice or whatnot. And in that, Charlie, if I remember correctly, gave the gospel presentation and then he also told the kid that he needs to read God’s word and do what God’s word says or something like that. And to me, you know, that’s a clear example of him, Charlie, that is teaching godliness and Christianity because if you read the Bible. And he gave the gospel too. Then. I mean, that’s the core aspects of Christianity right there. So he was an outspoken Christian leader to some degree, but he was also a political guy. Right. And to me. It’s a little bit of a stretch to call killing somebody because they’re political. It’s a little bit of a stretch to call it martyrdom, but I know other people still consider that to be martyrdom, maybe because politics is usually connected to what you believe and religion is connected to what you believe. So I mean, clearly, to me, it was an assassination. Because he was a political leader and a high level 1, you know he wasn’t officially in Trump’s cabinet, but he was a high level advisor to Trump.

[Jay]

Sure. And many people in Trump’s cabinet or there because of his work in the background as well.

[Sam]

And so. Yeah, yeah, that’s a good point also. And then he’s wasn’t effective. Get out the vote guy. Yeah. And so I think it definitely counts as an assassination. And I guess the question is, was he also shot for religious reasons? I think that’s a little tougher to establish, but I’ve heard some stories about what was in that discord. Yeah. Related to LGBT Q A+ or trans folks that were wanting to see harm done to Charlie. And then I don’t know if you guys heard about. Supposedly some people hired some witches to curse Charlie. I think it was the.

[Jay]

Yeah, I think I saw a headline, yeah.

[Sam]

Yeah, lady from some magazine. I don’t even know if I want to say the name of the magazine.

[Jay]

Let’s just say an evil lady in the Bible.

[Sam]

But it’s named after. Yeah, the most evil lady in the Bible that I know of.

Speaker

Yeah.

[Sam]

A lady that we often that I often equate with Hillary Clinton.

[MCG]

Wow.

[Sam]

Maybe I shouldn’t say that. Well, you know, some people say that now, in this case, this is not violence, but we’re just talking, like political metaphor here, right? This evil lady in the Bible was removed from power by a guy who drove a chariot very recklessly. Jay who and Hillary Clinton was removed from being. Our next President by a wild politician or new politician. But he was wild Donald Trump, so I don’t know. Wow, that’s a little bit. Of a rabbit trail, but anyway.

[MCG]

Yeah. So was his death an assassination? I think that’s clear. Everybody’s calling that assassination. Of course. He was killed for his political belief. But I also agree that he’s a martyr. The reason why I would say that is. Because especially in this country and I think it’s true all around the world, but especially in this country, you cannot separate your politics from religion. It’s always, you know, people with really separate your politics from religions. It’s impossible for you to do that. And I think one of the reasons why we in the West believe we can separate our politics from religion is because we look at places like in the Middle East. Where their religion is the politics where you have. Have a Muslim country and you have Syria along and both of them go hand in hand, but at the same time it’s true here that you cannot separate your politics from religion, especially in the culture that we’re living in right now. And what I think Charlie was doing because I listen to video where he was talking, he said, hey, what? I am doing is that the most important? I think the most important thing is, is that people will be 1 to Christ. But he said what he’s doing is the second most important thing. I’m gonna call it cultural apologetics. I think that’s what he was doing. We can say what’s politics, but cultural apologetics kind of encapsulate what he was doing because he was definitely out there in the trenches debating their. Ideas that folks have, and as is passes said as they go to seek freedom or liberty, he will point them. Charlie will point them to the source of liberty, which would be Jesus Christ. And I think that exactly what he’s doing. I want to be careful here, but I know. Or there have been a number of school shootings in this country. So I’m not gonna be counting the school shootings. I will say I think he’s in power with JFK and Martin King Junior. And dare I say, Malcolm X. These were men who were in the culture challenge, the cultural norms of the day. I’m not saying I agree with all these men per say, but they were in the trenches fighting. What they see as the cultural norms of the day, and I think Charlie Kirk was doing definitely that he was killed because of his biblical view, political view and his biblical view. And I think because. We have some fringe people on both sides and this case would be on the left that think words are violence. But as Donald Trump said, you know, if we say words of violence, what would stop someone from using violence to silence you? That’s what they did to Charlie. And. And I’m going on a little bit long here. But the Bible says in either 5 verse 20. Wanted them that call evil good and good. Evil that put darkness for light and light for darkness, and put bitter for. Sweet and sweet for bitter, the third reality is that we as a nation was built on the exchange of idea with freedom of speech being a fundamental principle and the fact that someone should be shot dead in broad daylight because of a disagreement. That’s tough in the West. That’s tough. Yeah, I have a clip here. This is what Charlie said about why he debates.

[Charlie Kirk’s Clip]

I go around universities and have challenging conversations, and because that’s what is so important to our country is to find our disagreements. Respectfully, because when people stop talking, that’s when violence happens. It’s a growing trend because people like me are facing violence. Assaults the left. Yes, the the campus Antifa. I’ve been stormed out of restaurants. I’ve been assaulted publicly, multiple death threats. There’s more people that agree with me than.

Speaker

I’ve never. And. OK, so what’s your goal?

[Charlie Kirk’s Clip]

Some people would actually believe and they come out of the woodwork when I do stuff like this, we record all of it so that we put on the Internet so people can see these ideas collide. When people stop talking, that’s when you get violence. That’s when civil war happens because you start to think the other side is so evil and they lose their humanity.

[MCG]

Yeah. And just to quote Charlie own words, the moment you signed a man with a bullet instead of an argument, you admitted that your worldview is too weak to stand on truth.

[Jay]

I’d like to add on to that and say that MLK, RFK, you know JFK, all these these men. Were assassinated true, but none of them were martyred. I would be in the camp that says Charlie Kirk was a martyr as well. There comes a point where, like you said, MCG. You said it it’s in this country that we can’t really separate our religion from our politics, but I think that has been the Case No matter what era you’re living in in Matthew. Chapter 14. I believe it is. John the Baptist, we read about John the Baptist being beheaded by Herod. Why it says in Matthew chapter 14 verse 3 for Herod had laid hold on John and bound him and put him in prison for herodias’s sake. His brother Philip’s wife for John said unto him, it is not lawful for thee to. Of her, he took the principles of the Word of God and told that leader told that man you are in sin. That’s adultery is not lawful for you to have her, because thus saith the Lord, and that’s exactly what Charlie Kirk was doing, and Herod killed him for or Herodias had him killed for it, and we would all agree that John the Baptist was a martyr. And Charlie Kirk was doing the exact same thing. And in this particular case, I know we’re going to talk about the shooter, but in this particular case, he was saying, thus saith the Lord, male and female created, he them boys can be girls. Girls can’t be boys. Transgenderism is wrong, transgenderism is sin, and he was killed for. And if you talk to any number of people on the left, if not all of them, they believe, like you said that those words are violence. And so they are justified in whatever violence that they decided they would attack you with. So is Charlie Kirk, Amartya, I would say absolutely not. I’ve heard and listen to several people. Go online, make videos and talk about the fact that, hey, he was assassinated, but Christians, you need to be careful. He is not a martyr because he was more political than he. Was spiritual when it came to the activities that he held on campus. He was pushing Maga and Trump and all these things. He was really pushing the gospel. And to that I say all you have to do is watch any number. Just go to his YouTube page and pick any one of his campus encounters and listen to them all the way through. You will not find one where he doesn’t. At some point mention the gospel. Mention what thus saith the Lord at some point in that interaction, he’s always pointing people back to the words. So I would be in the thought or investment that he was. Indeed, a martyr.

[MCG]

Yeah. So. Well, I’ll agree with you and other folks will struggle with the separation of your politics and your religion. Or can we or can we not separate it? I would say it cannot be separated.

[Jay]

Mm-hmm. Right. I agree with that.

[MCG]

But in a sense, if you look about as I mentioned, countries in the Middle East Muslim countries ruled by Muslim laws, I know Israel is a little bit different at this point because Israel, even though it’s. Which state is also a secular state as well, so it’s not like, well, I’ve never been to Israel, but I reimagine that every business is not shut down on a Saturday because they are Jews. But I imagine that a lot of businesses are shut down on Saturday in Israel, especially ones that have run by devout Jews. So I grew up in the Caribbean and.

[Jay]

A secular.

[MCG]

Here’s the one issue I notice, and this is a very unfair comparison, because there’s no comparison with the US and the islands in the Caribbean, but the folks tend to have. A similar foundation in the sense. So let me talk about growing up, growing up. The argument wasn’t whether a man can marry the woman. The argument wasn’t what is moral, and that the politicians almost never argue about that because all of them agree on that foundation. If you want to call it the judeo-christian Foundation, that. The Bible is somewhat the standard. Again, I’m see I’m bringing religion in here, but even if you put religion aside, they have this foundation that they’re not arguing. Which one is more Rd. if you listen to Kamala Harris when she talks, she said it’s my moral duty and listen to the left. That’s one reason I read and consume some leftist content. Because if you listen to them, they talk about their moral duty and to them, what they’re doing is moral, right. And what we are saying and we believe if we want to put ourselves on the right.

Speaker

MHM.

[Jay]

Uh-huh.

Speaker

OK.

[MCG]

We believe what we are saying is moral, but then where does that morality come from? Going back to the politics in the islands, the morality benchmark is the same. Are you even say even today, to this day a politician in islands who would get up and campaign? For legalization of same sex marriage, highly likely that he would not win a vote, highly likely that he would not get anywhere. The issues in the islands are how do we get better roads, more jobs, more investment, better housing and the politician that can bring those things? Maybe they want to get the vote. Of course you have the party politics as well as stuff like that, but my point is the argument is. Not homosexuality. It’s not issues that America argues about for most part. If you live in a major city in the US, you’re driving on decent roads, you have decent housing, you have transportation, you have food, you have clothing. So what? The arguments come to the issues of the day will be the homosexuality. You and I talk about this all the time.

Speaker

Yep.

[MCG]

A lot of time just gonna come out. Very, very weird. But I don’t mean it that way. But someone being depressed or lonely. You hardly hear about that coming up in islands because why you’re lonely. You have so much other things you need to do just for survival. If you wanna put it away. You don’t have time to be depressed and lonely. I’m not saying no one ever get depressed. What? I’m simply saying what we normally say first world problem, so it is easier to say I’m going to separate my religion from my politics in the islands because it’s not encroaching on your moral values because housing finance all these things, it’s just an exchange of, say, financial ideas or whatever.

[Jay]

Right.

[MCG]

This may be, and the Bible never really say thou shall do this with your house, but when it comes to what is OK for a man to be with another man, that’s fundamental. And that’s where we have a difference in this country. Is that the fundamental issues are being debated and I think that’s what Charlie was doing again cultural upon. Ethics. You can say yes, he did a lot of things for politics and I will give the critics this. He probably was more well known for his politics than for his Christianity, but this is where they’re looking over. We need to change the way we evangelise in this world today. It’s no longer where we can go. God love you and stuff like that. People need to be challenged with their taught structure is being framed and I think that’s one of the reasons why he go on to the colleges because he never shield away from his feet and quite honestly. Even though we kind of do it from a different Ave. and then very very much smaller scale, this is what we’re moving barrels is all about is to talk about cultural, political and social issues and point people to the gospel. Charlie Kirk does decide to do it in the political realm. We decide to hide behind our microphones. So no one nor face, but we’re technically doing this. Same thing.

[Jay]

Well, you’re too hard on yourself. The reason why we don’t put our faces and names out there is because we interview people that live in countries that will, in a blink of an eye, if they knew who they were, they would be shot and killed. Like for us, someone being shot and killed for their faith is absolutely just like what? That’s crazy shot and killed for your faith or for free speech or for whatever that is so. Antithetical to Western thought, some of these missionaries are living in countries where they like in the blink of an eye, they’d be thrown off a building or hung or killed or shot or whatever for their faith, for their speech, for whatever. And so it’s a segue a little bit. That’s probably why, Charlie. Kirk’s death was so entirely shocking, it’s because he was the moderate of the people on the right. There are people on the right that are far, far more extreme or far cookier than he sounded, and and for even for the left, even Charlie Kirk was too much. So if Charlie Kirk was too much, what about the rest of us?

[MCG]

Yeah. So what do you think this means for the country and even for the world time?

Speaker

Well.

[Sam]

Well, I guess going back real quick because Jay was talking about how Charlie was moderate and I would totally agree with that. I mean, from some people’s perspective, he was really conservative, but he himself even said that he was moderate and that Erica has influenced him a little bit more towards the right, but I think. You know, part of the reason why they went after Charlie, it wasn’t just because he was so conservative. But because he was moderately conservative and very effective, I think, and So what does that mean for us? I don’t know. I mean, I would imagine if we also are effective like Charlie or approaching his level of effectiveness, then we might have to be careful. I guess it’s kind of interesting to see how the Trump administration.

[Jay]

Very effective, yeah.

[Sam]

You know. Just responding to this because you know, this was one of Trump’s high level advisors, Charlie Kirk was, and he hung out with the Trump family. Time to time, he went with the Trump’s Donald Trump junior, for instance, to Greenland earlier this year.

[MCG]

Mm-hmm.

[Jay]

Oh, I didn’t realize he was with him. Actually, I remember that trip. I didn’t realize he was with him, OK.

[Sam]

Yeah. Yeah, I’m pretty sure there’s a pretty in my mind that there’s a picture that sticks out quite a bit. I want to say that Donald Trump junior standing in a snowy or icy field, looks like they had just gotten off of an airplane. If I recall correctly, he’s on one side of the picture and Charlie Kirk is on the other side of the picture, and they’re kind of facing each other while looking out towards there may have been a village that they were looking towards or something like that.

[Jay]

OK.

[Sam]

Maybe it was like Nook or something like that. But anyway, so yeah, Charlie Kirk was definitely connected to Trump, and it seems to me that Trump is trying to take care of where he thinks the problem came from. I think that the Trump administration is looking at Antifa and other groups connected with them and Soros. And I think that this Charlie Kirk thing is redoubling Trump’s desire to break these groups up. So, I mean, it seems clear to me that Antifa and the LGBTQIA plus mafia, and when I say mafia, I’m talking about the ones that. Believe in the LGBT movement and that like to talk about violence as a solution and they are connected to Antifa. There’s a lot of them even in the. So I’m a computer guy. You have Linux in the Linux world. You have a lot of these people that develop Linux, their LGBTQ. IA Plus whatever the acronym is now, and they also have on their profiles things where they say I am Antifa, right? And so there’s a lot of these people. There seems to be quite an overlap between the trans and the violent Antifa type stuff. Looks to me like Trump is trying to take care of that until that’s taken care of. I think we have to be careful and maybe being careful as not being fearful. Maybe it’s being effective. Charlie, it seems to me, was doing a good job. At getting people to reconsider being LGBTQIA, plus and so maybe that’s why they hated him so much as well, you know, and maybe that’s what we need to do. Maybe we need to take an approach similar to Charlie’s reach out to those people and convert them, you know, because many of them.

[Jay]

Yeah.

[Sam]

They may be part of that group, but they’re not satisfied and I think that deep down inside, they’re looking for an alternative.

[Jay]

Well, his assassin, I would say, was definitely in that camp. And we mentioned his name earlier in the podcast or in the introductions of the podcast. How do you think that he viewed Charlie Kirk and how do you think that reflects on how the right and the left view each other, you kind of touched on that a little bit. I wonder if you would expand because apparently the way that you’re describing. Now Antifa and the left sees people on the right. Literally anyone moderately to the right of left, they see as a complete what Hillary Clinton called like the basket of deplorables. Isn’t that she said something about the deplorables? It’s that same idea of people being so irredeemable that there’s no sense in talking to them anymore. What do you think about the assassin, Tyler Robinson, who he was, and how he viewed Charlie Kirk and what that means? For how the left and the right view each other in the country.

[MCG]

Yeah, before Sam jumping, let me say this though, because I think that’s something very important here because you know, what does this mean for the world? I think it goes back to what we were happening on again and we think we need to happen in more. Goes back to mindset and I just want to quote President Trump again, he said. His speech is violence, then some is going to think that violence is justified to stop speech. And what is it for this country? Is that sad and dangerous time? I believe in this country. I think it’s as bad as the 1960s where you have a number of assassinations. You can think about Malcolm X, JFK, Martin Luther King all happened in the 1960s, and if you go back to the 1960s, do you realize the 1960s was a turning point for a lot, a lot of things, is there turning point for civil rights and all these things that were happening, I think. That if history going to teach us anything, it’s that it’s repeating itself probably right now in the twenty 20s where we have Donald Trump as a figure that is so hated, which I don’t even get. And then we have assassination of Charlie Kirk, who you can argue that without Charlie Kirk, there wouldn’t be any Trump 2.0. Many can argue that, but I think the fringe of this country has taken words and changed their definition. That’s weird. Again, mindset. They take words and they changed their definition to justify violence. So they change the meaning of love and they change the meaning. Right. And I think also one of the problem is and I’m going to go kind of far back here. One of the problem is was of course we remember we have the section of revolution. I think the section revolution back in the 1960s as well. So the sexual revolution and after time what happened that was accepted as normal then after the sexual revolution, what did we have?

Speaker

Mm-hmm.

[MCG]

We have the gays rights and at the time that was upsetting as normal and then now what do we have after the gay rights we have this transgender issue and this furry fetish issue. And that is being forced down the throat of the culture to be accepted. We’re talking about things someone with a fifth grade education or less can tell you and know that it’s false. The fact that someone can change your gender 10 years ago, you blow anyone minds. 15 years ago you blow anyone minds to think that someone would actually think that they can actually mutilate their body enough. Take almost enough. Not even that. Just by the mere thought that they are now the opposite sex or gender from which they were born, or for which the chromosomes say that they are just a few years ago, and what is going on now? I think it’s the same thing they are saying, hey. Christians, you accept their sexual revolution, quote UN quote, you accept the gay rights movement, quote UN quote. Now this is not not the movement. What are we going to do about it is normalization of people with most of the sinful and got the fetishes that we see out there. It blew my mind. And what happened politicians push it. But it’s not. The politician is the people, because the people are the one who put the politicians there. I’m going to read Romans 120 to 29 and see if. This doesn’t perfectly describe our day, and even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge. Think about it even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge. God gave them over to what a reprobate mine to do those things which are not convenient, being filled with all ungodliness fornication. Wickedness, officiousness, maliciousness, full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, magnanimity, whisperers, fighters, haters of God, despiteful. Proud boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient appearance without understanding covenant Breakers, without natural affection, impeccable. Unmerciful. If you think about it, how best can you describe our culture today? If it’s not a reprobate mind? I can’t find a better freeze to put it. Lookout today, is it not the reprobate mind. That’s what’s going on here. How are we going to accept this other revolution? Sadly, we accept all we said. We wanna talking about other society. The gay rights. Sadly, we accept the sexual revolution. Now unintended is a turning point again. Are we going to upset? These denial of biology and the acceptance of fetishes and all these things that this alleged assassin had going on. So taking that now are going on to who this guy is. Well, in one word, reprobate. What else can you call him? You can call him many words. But if you use a biblical word, Tyler Roberson, that. Accused Killer is a repro. And of course, he’s a 22 year old and was living of course with his boyfriend, even though he probably wouldn’t call the person his boyfriend. He probably called his person his girlfriend and that was transitioned into something that he kind of transition into.

[Jay]

Male to female transgender person.

[MCG]

He was living with that person. Mm-hmm. And again, reprobate. That’s exactly what he is. And this is another question, but I do hope that he get the death penalty. And I know Charlie believe in the death penalty because.

[Charlie Kirk’s Clip]

He said this. If you allow murderers to live, it’s an insult to the. Victim you are basically saying that murderer has more rights than the person that they murdered that they get to keep on having life, even though that they took the life from a victim. You’re definitionally actually diminishing the victim and elevating the perpetrator, perpetrator. Not intentionally. But the only true actual statement of human equality is we care about life so much. That the penalty to take a life is that we will give you the ultimate price and consequence because we care about human life.

[MCG]

Alright, there you have it and I hope he got it because I think you know who was he? What do you think about it? I’m gonna throw it over to you, Sam, but yeah, I think the Bible give. Us exactly what?

[Sam]

He is? Yeah. I mean, I would agree. He does. From everything that I’ve gathered on him, he would definitely count as reprobate being that his girlfriend was actually a boy and.

[MCG]

He was a boy. He wasn’t a girlfriend’s family.

[Sam]

Well, it’s quote UN quote gold friend.

Speaker

It.

[Sam]

Was actually a boy, right? If I understand correctly, this individual was referred to as a girlfriend, like you said, was a person who was supposedly transgender, like declared to be transgender.

[MCG]

And he was into animal furries.

[Sam]

And the reason why this.

[Jay]

Who the assassin was, or the his.

[MCG]

Yes, that’s that’s ones into fairies. Yeah, it was a fetish of.

[Sam]

His such a weird world from my perspective, and definitely not biblical, right? I think the Bible makes it very clear that we’re not to be behaving like that, especially not the whole transgender and homosexual side of things.

[Jay]

Right.

[Sam]

And so, yeah, reprobate. But the interesting thing is, if we’re to believe the information that’s out on them, and I don’t have any reason to disagree with it at this moment, sounds like Tyler Robinson came from a conservative background.

[MCG]

Yeah, it was waste moment.

[Sam]

Or conservative family.

[Jay]

Oh was. He really.

[Sam]

Yeah. Ohh, Mormon. Really. I didn’t know that. All I knew was that his father supported mega is what I hear and that he had some kind of a conservative background. But he went to university and it sounds like there he gradually became very. Different.

[MCG]

Yeah, but he only went for one semester, though, so I would even blame the university in this suspect.

[Sam]

And.

[Jay]

Although the university could certainly do a lot of damage in that time, but it sounds like he had already gone down the path of reprobation. Or maybe he was already reprobate going into college. He had already had this spirit of rebelling against everything that his family stood for. Now, that’s not to say that the Mormons have sound doctrine. They don’t. But to rebel and to go completely 180 from what your dad and your granddad and your mom. Raised you in. This is not something that we could just lay at the feet of the universities. This is something that he chose to walk in. He chose to pursue this. He chose to go down that path that you described in Romans one. Just a step by step being choosing sin and choosing to go against God at every turn until finally he has that reprobate. But to continue the question about who he was and how he viewed Charlie Kirk, when your mind is that warped and twisted, you can’t see or think or behave clearly. You simply cannot. I had an old pastor who always used to say that when you are in sin, you are insane and only an insane person would take everything that Charlie Kirk said and chalk that up to quote hate that can’t be negotiated with. Isn’t that what he said? There’s some hate that you can’t negotiate with.

Speaker

Mm-hmm.

[Jay]

Charlie Kirk. He didn’t go any further than what the Bible says.

[MCG]

Well, talking about what he thought of Charlie, we don’t have to guess because just to pull up the tech exchange that law enforcement shared with the world that is allegedly between Tyler Robertson and his. Boy, girlfriend. Whatever, ** ***, ** *** is whatever ** *** is. Tyler said job. What are you doing? Look under my keyboard and the person. I think his name is Lance Twigs or something like that. What? You’re joking. Right. Then he reply. I’m OK, my love.

[Jay]

His boyfriend? Let’s be, let’s be frank, his boyfriend.

Speaker

Yep.

[MCG]

But I’m stuck in Oren for a little while longer yet shouldn’t be long until I can come home, but I gotta grab my rifle still. To be honest, I’d hope to keep this secret till I die of old age. I’m sorry to involve you. And **, *** replied. You weren’t the one who did it, right? Tyler replied. I am. I’m sorry. And then he said I thought they caught the person. No, Tyler replied. They grabbed some crazy old dude that interrogates someone in similar clothing I had planned to grab my rifle from my job point shortly after, but most of that side of the town got locked down. It’s quite almost enough to get out, but there is one vehicle lingering. Why **, *** replied. Why did I do it? He said, yeah. And then he said I had enough of his hatred. Some hate cannot be negotiated out. If I’m able to grab my rifle on scene, I will left no evidence going to attempt to achieve it again. Hopefully they have moved on. I haven’t seen anything about them. Finding that I’m going to leave it, it goes on with the exchange and stuff like that. And he asked them how long have you been planning it and stuff like that. But we don’t have to imagine what he thinks of Charlie. He expressed it. And of course, these things have been proven in court yet, but should they be proven in court? We know exactly why this is a classic. Questions of, you know, what? Political bucket you fall in, you would imagine that it would not be someone. On Charlie’s side, they do that. Why would they want to shut up, Charlie? Those on the left side of the political aisle, it was probably most likely disagree with Charlie. Those on the right side of the aisle will most likely agree with Charlie, of course. But I think you also have the fringes on both sides, the fringes on the left. Where? I would think Tyler Robinson will fall. Whether you have people who are willing to take up weapon and kill. Someone. However, the way I view the political aisle, because everything here, a lot of people say, OK, he was on the left. This is how I view the political aisle and I don’t view it the way normally depicted. The most simplistic depiction of the political aisle that most of us will see either. Straight line. And then there’s a a dividing line in the center. And you will see on the right what the right to believe. And then on the left, what the left believe and then we’ll have maybe a little bit in the centre way. So someone will be center right or center left or centrist or whatever the case may be. But I honestly don’t view it that way. The way I view it is I’m gonna use the musical term and in music they have something called a circle of face. And if you know your musical scale. As you go around the circle of fifths and the shops get higher and higher, get more and more shops and stuff like that, you run into something where musician will call enharmonics where you have. The key thing to say is different, but the sound is exactly the same in the same set of keys, just with a different name. I think that the fringes on the right and the fringes on the left are enharmonics. We have different names for them, we call them different things. They may even have different uniforms, but they sound exactly the same. I don’t know a lot of people on the right might disagree, but I do believe that as you go around. That circle, just like in the circle of fifths, when you go around the political circle at one point, the far left and the far right meet, and they are exactly the same. So what allies he on? Guess he can argue that he’s on the far left, but honestly, he’s just on the fringes of the political beliefs and what is on the far right on the far left. I think he comes to a point where it become. Harmonic. That would be my view.

[Sam]

You know when you say this, you make me think of an example. There’s a little bit of a time gap in here, but if you look at like. Supremacists in America, groups like the Ku Klux Klan and stuff like that, you know, back in the 60s and 70s, they were very clearly associated with Democrats, and they were concerned to be liberal, right in many ways. But today, I don’t know who came up with this idea, but today they’re considered to be right wing extremists. Right. But it’s the same mindset, but some people associated with the extreme right and other people associate with the extreme left.

[MCG]

But think about it. One of the writing. He put, the bullet casing was think it was catch fascist or fascist catch or whatever the case may be. Think about it. What he did allegedly. What better definition of fascism is there than what he? Did. Who is the fastest here? You know, I’m saying what he did was more on that side than anything else, but he believed is anti. But what he did is exactly I have earned audio from Ronald Reagan that I found pretty important because I know I already said that. I believe the enharmonic but here what Ronald Reagan had to say about this issue, believe it or not.

[Reagan’s Clip]

You know someone very profoundly once said many years ago that if fascism ever comes to America, it’ll come in the name of of liberal. And what is fascism? Fascism is private ownership, private enterprise. But total government control and regulation? Well, isn’t this the liberal philosophy? The Conservative so-called is the one that says less government get off my back, get out of my pocket and let me have more control of my own desk.

[MCG]

So do you have it? So again, that’s why I hold to the circle and not the line, because at a cert. Point I believe they meet and they become enharmonic because cooker clan is a very good example and it was on the left will put the proud boys in the same category as the Ku Klux Klan. So hey, what are they on? That would be my take.

[Jay]

I agree, I think.

[Sam]

So this is a tough one for me because there’s a lot that I like about what Trump’s doing, but from my perspective, it’s hard to argue that Trump does not operate at some. I’m not saying Nazi. That’s a whole another story. But I think that Trump does implement some fascist ideas, you know.

Speaker

MHM.

[Sam]

Because Ronald Reagan just gave a definition for it, he said private enterprise controlled by government and. You know, Trump has done that a lot under his first term, and I think he’s doing it again under his second term and I’m a huge fan of Trump’s. So I’m not saying that’s the reason, you know, to do violence against any conservatives or anybody associated with Trump. But that’s a tricky one for me because it’s almost like, again where the left and the right do have this overlap sometimes. I don’t even know why it may be that I’m trying to figure out why so OK, let me give some examples. One of The thing is we have the whole Defense Production Act from calling. The term correctly is what we use during. Of it, to get automotive companies to make ventilators. And also I want to say we use some of that act to get private corporations to make or help make vaccines and hand sanitizer. Right. Jack Daniels, for instance, private enterprise. But the government told them you need to produce supplies.

Speaker

MHM.

[Sam]

To fight. So ventilators, alcohol for sanitation, face masks. All of that. I think Haynes and some other companies ended up making face masks that was under Defense Production Act, which in my opinion that’s a form of fascism, you know, and then more recently, today, you have things like this whole idea of getting a whole bunch of corporations. Together and they’re going to establish American dominance in what’s it called? AI. And we have project Stargate, right with that whole idea. And then we also have the idea where we’re going to. You ohh boy. All of a sudden I forget. Third example I wanted to bring up, but to me it’s kind of flirting with the technical definition of fascism. I’m not really a huge fan of it to be honest with you, but that doesn’t mean that violence is excusable, you know? So I guess that’s one thing that I do wonder about, right? And that is that I think that sometimes. These somewhat crazy people, I think that they may have some legitimate concerns, but they’re not going about it the right way. The concerns that they may have and they may not even be understanding the circumstances correctly either. So like he might be looking at Trump. He’s a fascist and from my perspective I think that there may be some legitimacy to that argument. But, you know, nobody is perfect. And I guess for me The thing is like, OK, fine, maybe Trump is implementing some policies that we really don’t like. But what is the alternative? You know, the alternative that a lot of people are proposing is more of a. That the violence, the violent folks seem to be proposing is more of some kind of like a totalitarian communist type system, which is worse, you know, than what I think Trump is offering at the. Anyway, I don’t know. I struggle with the whole fascism thing because half of me kind of feels that or more than half of me feels like the Republicans are flirting quite a bit with fascism at the moment. So.

[MCG]

Yeah, I think that as I said 1, you know you said what’s the alternative or how do you counter that? Well, I think. Charlie left us a great example of how do we counter that in the? You know the marketplace of exchange of ideas, you know is in the public square, which you can argue now is, unfortunately is social media and what Charlie was doing. That is the way you go about doing it. You put your ideas out there to be tested and if they can stand the test, then they stand the test. If they can stand the test, the problem would again, going back to whether this guy was on the left or right or whatever.

[Sam]

Yeah.

[MCG]

Maybe I think he was on the fringes of the left, but the problem is the idea. Is are so illogical, so unscientific. In every realm, even if they don’t bring in quote UN quote religion as they will say, there’s nothing logical about the argument, except that is how they feel. And when they bring feeling in, you automatically now start pushing logic aside and that’s what they do. And again, as I said. In this country we normally put left and right. I believe it’s a circle, but also you have to keep in mind nobody. Even if you look at it as a line, nobody fit perfectly on any side because they’re gonna be something that the left and right is going to always agree on something they’re going to be. Whether or not you can think about maybe you’re socially leftist, but financially you are conservative or vice versa, or whatever the case may be, there always some kind of overlap. That’s why we have to be careful with labels and stuff like that, even though they don’t have a problem labeling other people or labeling themselves. But again, I think. Definitely. They come a point where the fringes become enharmonic, and even though they’re saying they have different names, they basically saying the same thing. Doing the same thing and equally as deprave, at least in my opinion.

[Jay]

That’s why you need the word of God to center and anchor you the Overton window, as it were, shifts all the time. There are times in history where the left looked like the right and the right looked like the left, but the one thing that we know doesn’t change is the word of God and we can anchor ourselves to it. And I think that in some ways Charlie sought to do that, to show people. How so far left the country has gone that. Moderate right? Or if you’re center left, or even if you’re in the center, you appear to be far right. Compared to them, everything is so skewed and so if nothing else, that can be a reminder that Christians need to be anchored to the word of God so that we’re not tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine, as the Bible says. Another thing that I think that Charlie Kirk’s assassination opens our eyes to is the incredible mission field that we have on our university campuses. The youth that we need to reach. With the gospel, because it’s clear that they’re receiving some type of evangelism and the left is of, well, I, I don’t want to call it evangelism because that word means something specific, but they’re being discipled and tutored and taught and trained, and in many cases, radicalized by the left, that discipleship, that should be taking place in the home. Or in the church is taking place at the university campuses, where their professors are so far left. That you can’t help but be radicalized, or at least at the very least, the most charitable we can say, completely disoriented, spiritually, emotionally, politically, when you come out of the university system. And Charlie Kirk saw that and stood in the.

Speaker

Yeah.

[Jay]

Gap. He was killed for it. Yeah, yeah.

[MCG]

Alright, well, let’s go through a little bit of break. When we come back. And talk about Charlie Kirk as soul for whom Christ died. We’ll be right. Back.

[Jay]

Are you looking for a consistent and reliable place to get all your Christian materials? Try christianbook.com started from humble beginnings in 1978. Christianbook.com now offers a wide range of books, CD’s, DVD’s, schooling and church supplies. It’s more so whether you are a parent, a homeschooler, a pastor, or a laypersonchristianbook.com can be a one stop shop for all your needs. Click the link in the description section below and check out the vast array of Christian materials christianbook.com has to offer.

[MCG]

Alright, so we’re going to get back into this. Why do you think that Charlie Kirk was so widely hated? Before I throw that over to you, Sam, I’m going to play another audio, but I’m going to put a warning on this. This could be a trigger warning. So brace yourself. This is going to be rough, so brace yourself.

[Folks Rejoicing Clip]

Oh dear. Ding Dong the witch is dead.

We think that Charlie Kirk. Just got shot in the neck. I would say pour one out for Kirky boy, but I don’t waste good beer on little.

Charlie Kirk just got put down like a dog in Utah and I could not be happier.

I will not ever, ever, ever ever ever feel bad when bad people. Get what they deserve. Stoked right? Now you wanna wear stoked? Stoked. CK. Got a K?

And he’s gone.

He did say that gun deaths were an acceptable side effect of gun rights.

[MCG]

So that’s was a montage of the fringes on the left rejoicing because a human being was shot in the neck and die. Now unfortunately.

[Jay]

I’m sorry, I’m sorry, MCG. I don’t think that was French. I think that was mainstream. I think a significant number or percentage of people that were on the left felt exactly that they just didn’t put their faces, they just didn’t take to the Internet to show the world.

[MCG]

Well, we we already can go from the evidence we have, but not dispute what he said, but we can go with the evidence we have and.

[Jay]

Their face.

[MCG]

Let me throw it over to you, Sam, because I’m. A lawful words.

[Sam]

Here. Hmm. Yeah. Well, I I don’t know what to say. That’s pretty. I shouldn’t be, but I’m surprised to see that this is where we are. I guess I shouldn’t be, because when you think about it for a long time now, I guess you could say it started in the 60s, we’ve really been. Attacking the value of life. Mm-hmm. Here in America and in Western society, if we can even call ourselves society anymore. You know, from earlier you mentioned the sexual revolution, which. I don’t believe you can have a proper value of human life when you don’t have proper value regarding how life is created and the sexual revolution would obviously distort that. And then we have things like Roe V Wade and push for abortion, which started out where they’re saying we just want abortions to be safe.

Speaker

Yeah.

[Sam]

And rare or something like that. But now? Yeah. Safe, legal and rare.

[MCG]

Safe, legal and rare.

[Sam]

There you go. And then it turned into you. Have the Governor of Virginia at the time. I’m forgetting his name. All of a sudden. Who was talking about how he wanted mothers to be able to birth their baby. And then after the baby is born, they’d make it comfortable and and then they would talk about.

[Jay]

McAuliffe was not Terry McAuliffe.

[MCG]

I think.

[Sam]

So yeah, Terry McAuliffe, there we go talking about how while the baby is. Being comforted and resting, they would talk about if they’re going to keep the baby or terminate the baby. Right and it’s just. That’s crazy, but there were a lot of Democrats that were arguing for that, and I dare say we have a lot of Republicans that argue in favor of abortion also, maybe not openly regarding a post birth abortion, but before birth, there’s a lot of Republicans that are for it. Yeah. And to me, that shows how we’re in a point where we.

[Jay]

Yeah. MHM.

[Sam]

Don’t properly value human life, and if we don’t value human life, then what’s the problem with one of your political opponents being shot? I mean, who cares if I can shoot a baby or kill a baby before or after it was born and not bad? And I about it. Then how much easier in my mind would it be to kill somebody that is not? As innocent as a baby.

[MCG]

Your thoughts are.

[Jay]

I would like to add on to that and say that this complete disregard for human life in our society shows itself in so many ways. Look at for example. I think this is a year or two ago now. The movie called The Sound of Freedom, came out in order to shed a light on the terrible reality of human trafficking. Want to keep it PG here? Human trafficking for young ladies, young ladies and young children. For the deplorable and degrading sinful pleasures of other people, I don’t even know how to say that without being rated R but and when it came out there was such an organized campaign against it in all of our so-called institutions. Hollywood and people in government and people in those fears denouncing and dismissing it like a piece of right wing propaganda. And it wasn’t political at all. It was just a movie that was meant to shine a light on a really serious, real and ongoing problem in our country and in our world. Fast forward a few years and the Epstein. Files. The whole Epstein thing blows up and to this day we can’t get any answers on what happened there. Who’s responsible that so many? People were used, discarded and violated as if they were not image bearers of the God who created them, used and discarded for another person’s own pleasure. Abortion is the same thing where you are OK with ending the life of a human being. Simply because that human being doesn’t fit into your idea of your life at this moment. Now some people will say, well, there are medical reasons to abort, and there aren’t any. There are instances where medical intervention may result in the death of the child, but to actually physically go in there and kill the child and scrape everything out, there is no medical. Necessity for that. But we excuse it. We justify it. We make excuses for it, because the value of life we’ve lost that value of life. And I think, as Sam was already saying. We don’t value life because we don’t fear the creator. We don’t even think he created us. We think we went from good to you, by the way, of the zoo. We think that we came from a giant explosion that made everything and that we were plasmic or whatever good that evolved into people. When that’s your starting point. Who cares that someone got shot in the neck for freedom of speech? Who cares? It’s the survival of the fittest, our ideology, our ideas. What we want needs to be put forward. And so who cares if someone is murdered for that or a baby is murdered for that? Or children are used and discard. Did and mistreated and violated for whatever the end result is and so as we often say in this podcast, this is a spiritual issue. This is a heart issue and this is what happens when a people forget their God and we’ve had this example repeated over and over again in Scripture. The Bible says everything that was written in the old. Estimate and in the news written for our learning, we may be shocked by this because we live in the West, but this is not the first time that a collective group of people have lost their ever loving minds because they have forgotten God, the Israelites who had the revelation, the special revelation from God who had God’s word, who knew God specially chosen by God. We’re sacrificing their babies to the same demons and principalities that the heathen were in their area of the world at that time. Sober warning. And for us as a nation, to wake up and realize that this problem can’t be solved by the White House, it can’t be solved by Hollywood. It can’t be solved by anything else that we would put our confidence in. This is a spiritual problem, and Christians need to arm themselves with the armor of God, and we need to speak up and boldly proclaim. Thus saith the Lord, just like John the Baptist did, just like Charlie Kirk did. Because as much as what the clip that you were playing, MCG was deplorable, and I felt I still feel. Rage. The same indignation I just can’t bear to hear it. Those people are loss. And if it weren’t for the grace of God, we would probably be just like them. But we’ve been saved, we’ve been cleansed. We’ve been made right. We’re in our right mind. When you’re in sin, you’re insane. And that’s what we’re seeing here, that reprobate mind that you were talking about. Earlier, that’s what it does. When someone’s been shot and you compare that person to a dog and you don’t even give it the time of day, you’re laughing at it. You’re gleeful. Not only that you take to the Internet to show the world how gleeful and unbothered you are, that’s another level of reprobate that’s just another level of callousness of day. Goodness of their father, the.

[MCG]

Devil. Yeah. What stood out to me? Mostly about the video. As bad as it is, it’s the fact that it was a video. It wasn’t even audio. I. Of course, we have a audio podcast. So we pulled the audio out. But these are people that were willing to show their faces. And I’m not even in mass, full faces rejoicing over someone. That I wouldn’t even rejoice over my worst enemy, that much less. No wish. My worst enemy to be killed in this way for just exercise is Peach. But you know what, Charlie was widely hated because he stood on the word of God and proclaimed us that the Lord. Yeah, they don’t want to hear that he was widely hated because he spoke the truth. He was widely hated because he did not agree with their lifestyle and also he was widely hated because his life rebuked theirs. It rebukes their very identity here. Go back to the foundational stuff. This is these people identity and Charlie saying no, your lifestyle, I don’t agree with it. And he said he will refer to. Comma. Beat it again. I mentioned this again because according to do a definition of hate. He hated them. And since words are violent, they find it just a viable to cheer violence or perform it themselves. They of course again going to second Timothy 312 year not all that will live God in crisis that shall suffer persecution. We have no idea what that is. We in the West have no idea what the word persecution is, but I think it’s coming. So Charlie was martyred for his faith, but I have some interesting stuff I want to share here though, OK, because again, at times we talk about left and right and. The stuff, according to a university study, 50.2% of people who identify as left of center, said it was justified to murder Elon Musk. That number jumped to 56%, saying that is justified to murder. Donald. Of people on the left, OK.

[Jay]

For Trump, as you said, 655556. Wow.

[MCG]

56%. And of people on the left, according to this study, believe that it’s OK to murder Donald Trump, that 50.2% believe it’s OK to murder Elon Musk, 40% said he was acceptable to destroy a Tesla dealership, 54% said he was OK. Block students from attending speaking events, 54% say want you to go to that speaking event that they believe is OK and 34% is approved of physical violence to stop free speech, and that’s the lowest one we. Yeah. So let that sink in a little bit that you have 71% of college students approve of shouting down speakers they disagree with, so they have it. And again, they have been argument over and over whether this is more on the right, more on the left. I don’t think that’s important. But according to this university. 3071% of current college student. And say they approve of shouting down speakers they disagree with so.

[Jay]

The lack of empathy shocks me all you need to do is do a little thought experiment. If you were in Charlie Kirk’s position, how would you feel? How would you feel if you had your leftist ideas but you were on a conservative Christian campus where they this most likely wouldn’t happen, but where they would marginalized you call you? Stupid or every single buzzword in the book shut down your ideas. What if you were on the left? You have these positions and you were not in the majority. How would? Feel would you be OK with someone taking a shot at you because you’re spouting your nonsense? You think people on the writers spouting nonsense? What if the tables were flipped? Would you even feel a modicum of outrage or indignation? Or OK, if that’s even too much sadness? Even if you or someone that was like you was shot? Because of what they thought, the lack of empathy, I can’t wrap my brain around, you know, Sam mentioned earlier how much he’s changed in terms of valuing human life. When he became a father, I can totally understand that before I had children, I would be able to watch shows where, you know, people got hurt and things like that, and not even flinch. It wouldn’t bother me. But now I almost can’t handle it. I almost can’t handle even to see the representation of it on TV. I almost can’t handle it anymore. Before the person’s even heard on TV, I’m already in tears and I’m turning my head. Where I don’t want to see anything, but in this situation someone gets shot in broad daylight for everyone to see. It’s an obvious kill shot with arterial and venous blood just flowing like a faucet, and your response is. Laugh. You have to admit, at that point you’ve no soul at that point, not literally. You don’t have a soul. Of course, even in their reprobation, they’re even as far loss as they are. The Lord can still save them. I don’t mean that, but how absolutely calloused do you have to be to have that response? Particularly, it was there for everyone to see. That blows my mind.

[MCG]

Let’s flip it. So his death was widely celebrated. Yeah, but he was also widely known. Why do you think that is?

[Jay]

I think it’s because he represents so much or so many of same. Even even center or center right, people in America, his views are mainstream. Christian views now granted, a lot of Christians are compromising with their stand on homosexuality and things of that nature. But Charlie didn’t go beyond anything any of what the Bible said. There are people who are on the right that would advocate. For the killing of gays or for, you know, what is it like racist tendencies? They tend to take the Bible and twist it and make IT support racist. I didn’t. Charlie was none of that. And for someone who was so. There are many levels to this loss. First, the men, just a young man, 31 years old, a father, a husband, his children, I think we mourned for his children because they may not even have a personal memory of him when they’re all grown up. The oldest one is 3. She may have some memories here or there, but they’re complete. Life with him has been taken away. OK. And not only that, the immense talent that he was to be able to engage young people and to be able to change minds. We know it wasn’t his strength alone. We know that the Lord was working through him, but to be able to engage people and meet them where they are and show them a better path and show them why America is so great and why we straight so far from that and why. The path that they’re on will only lead to darkness or to death. He was able to help people get from point A to point B to C, where the problems, particularly people who were radicalized or brainwashed by their college education. So the loss of the talent, the loss of the man, the loss of what could have been. Him a lot of people were already saying that he would absolutely have been president had he gone on. He definitely had the IT factor to become president. So we mourned that potential loss. Now he didn’t express any interest in going into politics, but he certainly would have been a force to be reckoned or to be right, right, right. To be a president. Yes, thank you. But he was a force to be reckoned with.

[MCG]

Should be a president you. Whatever. Do you whatever in politics.

[Jay]

Behind the scenes where a lot of the politics needs to happen. So we mourn that loss. I hear so many people talk about the effect that he had on the. Them I have never seen someone, even when Donald Trump got shot, I did not see people come out of the woodwork to talk about how much of a positive effect Donald Trump had on their lives as a result of having personally interacted with Trump like they did for Charlie Kirk.

[MCG]

Well. I’m not sure that’s a fair. Comparison.

[Jay]

Granted, he right? Perhaps. Perhaps you’re right. The the comparison isn’t fair there, but so many people talked about how Charlie could personally affected their lives, personally pointed them to the gospel, personally pointed them toward marriage and traditional values and having children and away from the left. So many people came out of the woodwork to talk about the effect that he had on them. So we mourned.

[MCG]

If he had connected, I think he would have been bigger, but. Yeah.

[Jay]

Lost. We mourn what he could have been. We mourn who he was. We mourned for his family. We mourned for another effective testimony and witness for the gospel that has been taken away. We mourned because he was a brother in Christ. And though we know he’s with the Lord and we really believe that he’s with the Lord, the fact that he’s not here with us still hurts. Like I said at the beginning. I can’t remember the last time I cried for someone I didn’t know so hard, and we mourned on all those levels. And the way that it was done so publicly, so gruesomely, and then to have that added level of people dancing and laughing, and I really think that we’re gonna look back on his assassination and it’ll be a watershed moment, if not for us, that are millennials, definitely for the generations coming up, I think they will see that as a watershed moment in. The. History.

[MCG]

Yeah, I think he was a very genuine young guy. And I think that in a culture today where people are not genuine, to be honest, that that was a breath of fresh air for a lot of people. I think also he was very respectful to everyone. Mm-hmm. Even though the left. Will I get that tooth and nail? But let’s listen to his stuff. He was very respectful with everyone, of course.

[Jay]

Yep.

[MCG]

He was a very intelligent young man, so you have to come with your facts and be able to really be able to debate to even score. And because but again, as Dennis Prager said, a lot of the issues of the left, there’s no logic, there’s no knowledge there. Yeah. Say, the man can become a woman. You lose the argument even before you start. Mm-hmm. But anyways, I think he was respectful to everyone. And also, I think he was the epitome of what the millennials and the gens II are missing. God, family and a sense of purpose that is higher. Than themselves.

[Jay]

I think they know that too. I think they realize. That’s.

[MCG]

Right. What is the buzzword for today, the buzzword today, that psychologists are telling you? And sadly, even some Christian counselors are telling you is to love yourself, love yourself, love yourself? Well, what the Bible says? Second Timothy, Chapter 3, verse two and four for men shall be lovers of their own selves. What in the last days they shall be loved oneself. Loving yourself is evident and it is showing that we. The last day telling people to love no, the Bible never tell us to love ourselves because the Bible says that no money ever hated himself. None of us hate ourselves. So all these thing, love yourself. Love yourself. Just evidence of the last thing for men shall be lovers of their own self-conscious, boasters, proud blasphemers, disobedient appearance and thankful unholy traitors. Heady high minded.

[Jay]

Hmm.

[MCG]

Lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God. And we are here and is ever more evident in our culture today. And I think that’s why Charlie was so wildly mourn, because we realise what we have lost. We lost someone who was pointing people to God, family and a sense of purpose that is hiding themselves. And that’s where the ferry culture and its engender culture don’t have because to them. Dear, dear God, when you think that you can change what God creates you to be, you are thinking yourself to be God, that you can create something out of nothing. I think that’s because Charlie life rebukes theirs. That’s why, yeah, would be my 2 cent have anything to add on?

[Sam]

That Sam? No, I think you covered that pretty well.

[MCG]

Alright, so we talked about this a little bit earlier, but his video of his death was immediately and widely circulated. Do you think that was a good thing for our?

[Sam]

Society today? Yeah, I struggle with that one. I think that there’s been some good. That’s come out of it. So you know, there are a lot of people that have rejoiced in Charlie’s death, but there are also a lot of people that are going to church, at least for now. And there’s a lot of people that are reading their Bible. Well, again, because of Charlie’s death and I kind of wonder if part of the reason why they’re so affected by Charlie’s death, one part is Charlie’s very likable, and he seemed to be very compassionate to people. He’s a young guy. Young father was a young guy, was a young father young husband. So that may be one reason why people are impacted, but I think. On the other side, another contributing factor. To people being so interested in Charlie and wanting to see things change is because I’m suspecting they may have seen the video, you know, and that may have jolted them a little bit because I’ve heard from several atheists, and I even know of a few people here that have gone to church because they figured well. In order to honor Charlie or because of what Charlie was teaching, they figured they go to church. So. I don’t know. I’m hoping that you know that atheists don’t just go to church, but that they come to know Christ as their savior. But maybe that video is having a positive impact. Me personally, I’ve not seen the video. I really don’t want to see the video, so I’m not interested in the video. And that’s one side of me that says I don’t really like it being out there. And then I guess the other thing is I’m thinking about his family.

[MCG]

Right.

[Sam]

And you know, OK, so for me, if something were to happen to somebody very beloved to me, but I want the whole world to see. Somebody that I love had a very bad moment. I don’t know that I would, but then again, you have the other argument and that is maybe people need to see what we’ve become. You know what our society has become. So it’s a tough one. I don’t know. I think you could argue either way as to whether people should or shouldn’t see it.

[MCG]

Yeah, I agree with Sam. If the video was not out there, I think that would have been much better than the fact that it’s it’s out there. And I think you hit the nail on the head because I. In a the Ruska, which is an episode we just did episode or two by her family, was lamented. The fact that they released the video of her murder on the train in Charlotte. So is this a good thing for society? I would say no, but somewhat I’m glad that we saw it because I think it’d be a wake up call to show that those who have the fringes of. Whatever both sides, the way they treat us and the way they treat our God, we take the threat seriously, I think. Looking at it and see what happened that you now understand. Hey, these things are real and you know, I heard you. If it was my loved one, I wouldn’t want the video to be out there. But unfortunately for this one is already out there and, you know, things live forever on the Internet to talk about these kids, you know, you’re gonna grow up someday and get devices and stuff like that. And maybe they might Google their dad. And who knows? Would they find these videos? Who knows what they’re going to see? So I understand their hard part about it. I’m somewhat glad that we did get to see it because I think at least it joked some people in to say, hey, man, these people are doing some serious things out there and it needs to be taken seriously. They threats need to be taken.

[Sam]

Yeah.

[MCG]

Seriously.

[Jay]

Yeah, I struggle with it too. There is an element of people being detached from the reality of their decisions. The reality of the consequences of their policies, the consequences of their worldview. The consequences of their rhetoric, there’s that argument about defund the police argument, the people that are arguing for defund the police. They live in gated communities, and they’re not affected by the results of defunding the police. They’re not the ones that have to deal with a neighborhood that has no police presence. I think it’s the same thing. With a lot of ideologies, I think it’s a dangerous thing to be shielded from the inevitable result or consequences of having a particular ideology or radicalization. I think that the video galvanized a lot of people because it was so jarring. It was such it was so terrible that it demanded a response. OK, so here’s the evil. Here’s the ugly that we are faced with. What say you now? Are you going to continue down this path of being of a reprobate mind, or are you going to turn back?

Speaker

Hmm.

[Jay]

And I think so. Maybe I could be wrong in saying this. I don’t know if I am, but perhaps when you are so calloused in your sin, you need something like that to wake you up and say, hey, this is the result. Of what you’re advocating for, or how you’re thinking what you’re believing. Do you want to continue going down this road? The death of our Lord, the crucifixion of our Lord was done publicly and he was laid bare in every sense of the term for everyone to see. And you know, when the Israelites were murmuring against the Lord. And there were snakes that came to bite them. The Lord had Moses make a replica of a snake, like a bronze replica of a snake, and wrapped around a pole and told the people, hey, if you want to be saved, look, look to look to this thing. I think that in many instances we have to look to. I’m not saying that his assassination is like that, but I’m saying sometimes you really just have to see, like Sam said, what we’ve become and turn from our sin and turn from going down that path. I think that we are inoculated. I don’t think inoculated. We’re. We’re insulated from the consequences of our decisions because the West is so prosperous. Most of us don’t even know where our food comes from. I remember hearing someone talk about what they saw when they were coming down on a plane and they saw all of these where plots of land that looked like it had rows and just these square green boxes. And they’re like, why is the land like? It’s like that’s. Farmland, dude, you don’t know that or how many people that I talked to where they say, oh, you know, if you run out of chicken, you just go to the store and get chicken. You don’t think about how there has to be a raising of that chicken. There has to be breeding of it, raising it, butchering it, processing it and putting it. There’s so many steps that it has to go through before it’s on that shelf in your grocery store. That we are so insulated from all of it. We’re so cut off from it that we don’t even. No, I’ll give one more example and then I’ll be quiet and I’m being a little bit long winded here, but when it comes to our clothes, we don’t think about our clothes because we just go to the store and buy it or we go online and we click here there two or three times and we have clothes, but we don’t see the production that takes place. All of the stuff that has to happen in order for that piece of clothing. Come to be put on the market. Well, in many of these instances of our clothes of our technology, whatever fill in the blank, there are people living in squalor and sweatshops and really objectionable. Ways of life. In order to do the work so that we can have all of our luxuries here. We’re so divorced from every from life itself, and we are pampered. We are spoiled. OK, I say all that to say. Maybe it is a good thing that it was available for everyone to see because sometimes you have to look at the ugly. And so. What’s happening? What have we become? Where do we go from here? I’m sorry it took me like, 12 minutes to expound that, but that’s where I’m at.

[MCG]

Yeah. No, we talk about those who rejoice over his death and stuff like that. Do you think all of that fell under free speech or should that be prohibited? Is that the free speech issue for you, Sam?

[Sam]

You’re talking about people posting.

[MCG]

People posting stuff online, people cheering and all that stuff. Is that free speech?

[Sam]

Wow, that’s a tough one. So I certainly think if people said that they believe Charlie Kirk was despicable, which I disagree with. But if they say that, I think that does fall under. This breach, I think you know based off of legal precedent, any way encouraging the Commission of a crime. I don’t think that falls under free speech.

[MCG]

So you think if they’re cheering for it, they’re encouraging it?

[Sam]

If they’re cheering for his death, I think that is, you know, you’re not encouraging the Commission of that crime because it’s already been. Committed, but you could make the argument that they’re encouraging the Commission of another crime down the road. I don’t really like the idea, to be honest with you. I don’t like the idea of the government getting involved and telling them they can’t say that I’m not even sure that that would be the answer anyway. I think there would make sense for the government to look in and see if these people.

Speaker

Hmm.

[MCG]

Hmm.

[Sam]

People are connected to any violent groups and see if there are any crimes there. More obvious crimes, if you will. I’m talking legal crimes, not moral crimes, but I think the best way to address a lot of the people that are expressing delight in Charlie’s death to address them as Charlie addressed them honestly, and then also. Address where these people are coming from. Right. So I think a lot of these people are being. Doctrinal from a political maybe not from, like a legal standpoint, if you can go after them legally, fine. I’m not so much in favor of going after them because of their speech, but more because of their actions.

[MCG]

Freedom of expression.

[Sam]

Well, when I say their actions like you’ll find that with a lot of the chat rooms and whatnot and with Antifa, there’s all sorts of money flow that is not legal and you can clamp down on things that way or there may be like money laundering involved and stuff like that.

[MCG]

Hmm.

[Sam]

But when it comes to the speech again, I have a hard time from, like a government standpoint going after that. I think I’d rather go after again after the hearts and minds. So a lot of these kids may be indoctrinated in certain camps, go to where they’re being indoctrinated and provide them with alternative views. Like I said, kind of like what Charlie was doing. Which is why I think he was attacked, you know. But I feel like that’s probably the more effective way. The problem is with these peoples hearts and their minds. And so we need to address that I think as opposed to trying. Set them up, which ultimately I don’t think would succeed anyway.

[MCG]

Yeah, sadly, I think that it probably falls and is protected by the 1st amendment. I think that a lot of these folks cheering and all that stuff, it would be a very great area of the law if the government was able to go after them. And maybe what you said is possible. But I think again, going back to the core issue, the core.

[Sam]

Yeah.

[MCG]

Is a foundational issue and ju of quoted John Adams, and we have quoted John and on the podcast, he said our Constitution was made only for moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other yeah. And that’s where you come down to. Here, freedom of speech is very unique to the West, and not only that, freedom of speech and don’t get me wrong. What I’m gonna say, but freedom of speech is very dangerous because if you say freedom of speech, you must be able to access speech you don’t like and speech you like. Because unless it’s not freedom of speech. And unfortunately I think they’re protected again. I love my freedom of speech. I will say let people say whatever they want to say. At least they show me who they are. I don’t have to guess. But John Adam had a point here. When this Constitution was written, we had somewhat of a common foundation from folks with for it, and the Christian Foundation, but now we are seeing the whole inadequate. Yeah, for the government of any other, we are seeing this part come to life because that foundation has been eroded because I wasn’t there in the 1916 when Martin Luther King Junior was gone down. And I would imagine that they may have been some people who were rejoicing. But at least we don’t have videos of it. I don’t think there’s any newspaper that had any account of people rejoicing.

Speaker

Yeah.

[MCG]

Today it’s all over so.

[Jay]

That’s another part of the equation that needs to be addressed when the Constitution was penned, there was no social media, and I do think that social media. Yes, but it really changes.

[MCG]

Is a cessPool?

[Jay]

It changes a lot because now everyone is exposed to everything at all times. I’m sure everyone maybe not everyone. Many people had the same experience I did when I went online to Google search. The shooting, I didn’t go to video, I didn’t go to Twitter or to YouTube or to. Any other video I know I didn’t want to see that I went to an article and I still saw it. They still had it on replay on an article and. Something like that. It affects you, especially when you’re not prepared for it. You’re moved by it, radicalized by it even. And how do you prevent against that? It’s the same thing with speech. If you’re an impressionable young person, you go online and on your social media feed. All you see is a repeat loop like bad behavior, bad speech, whatever. On loop that’s going to have a detrimental effect. On you and we know that many young people lack parental supervision. Some parents don’t even know what their kids are being exposed to. Do we still have that freedom of speech? Is it still a good thing to have the freedom to say whatever you want when the foundations like you said, have been eroded? We are no longer a moral and religious people.

[MCG]

What the problem is though, as much as I say, freedom speech is dangerous. Not having freedom of speech is even more dangerous, so I’ll stick with the freedom of speech, and suddenly.

[Jay]

In other words, we can’t really trust our government to, OK.

[MCG]

Exactly. Exactly so. But let’s shift gears here. Because a lot of the same people that we’re talking about guest, I guess we’re not shifting gears, they said he deserved it. Did Charlie deserve his comments? I guess if you want to put it that way, let me shoot it to you then. Come upins.

[Sam]

OK, so I have a very funny take on it. My answer is yes, of course he did. We’re humans and every human is a Sinner deserves Hellfire, right? So I guess for me the question is not whether he deserved it. We all deserve help higher. But thankfully, Christ died on the cross for.

[Jay]

Yeah.

[Sam]

Our sins, right?

[Jay]

Amen. Amen.

[Sam]

And if we accept gift of salvation, then he’s taking that punk. And we can be with God. In heaven? Yes, praise.

Speaker

Yeah.

[Sam]

The Lord. So again, I guess for me The thing is not whether he deserved it, but whether it was right to do that to Charlie. And I would argue no, especially if we’re looking at the Bible, cause we see where God is not pleased by people being murdered. He wasn’t pleased with Abel. Being murdered and then later on in the Old Testament it talks about capital punishment for those who murder. And of course we have talks. The cities of refuge and whatnot, I think in Joshua. What is it? I’m going to guess and say around chapter 19 or so, where if somebody killed a man deliberately or by accident, he has to run to a city of refuge, because if he does not make it there, he can be rightfully taken out. Hmm. And when he does get to the city of refuge, then they have a trial eventually to see whether he’s guilty or not. And there’s rules for evidence. My understanding is a lot of where we get our tradition of rules for evil. Comes from the book of Joshua and the rules of evidence given there. I believe there’s also rules for evidence in Deuteronomy as well.

[MCG]

Yeah. Even though a government started to interrupt. But even though a form of government is taken from the Bible as well? Mm-hmm. A lot of folks don’t realize that. But the Bible is woven into the society heavily. The way we do our court system. Is the same way God told Moses to set up his judicial system. Before we get to him, which would?

[Sam]

Be the High Court, right? Yeah, it’s very. So yeah, was it right to take out Charlie? I would argue no. Again, we’re talking about the value of human life. And of course, when you look at the Bible, God instituted the death penalty for those who killed others, you know, innocently killed others not innocently killed others. Those who killed people that were innocent, if you will. So in other words, you’re not killing out of self-defense.

[Jay]

Like unintentionally, you’re yeah. Oh, OK.

[Sam]

But you’re just murdering somebody, right? That is forbidden in the Bible. And so I would say that is wrong for anybody to do that. Charlie as well. Charlie wasn’t killing anybody, so I don’t know how you could justify killing Charlie.

[MCG]

Right. And just to add 2 verses to what you said, well, actually 3, the Bible, Saint Luke, 13 three I tell you. Nay. But except he repent, he shall all likewise perish. I agree with you. I don’t think the right answer is whether he deserves it or not, because all of us do deserve it. But the fact that we are all sinners, but of course, should he have done it? Absolutely not. But I have another clip here. I’m going to play. And this is Charlie telling us what his favorite verse is.

[Charlie Kirk’s Clip]

Favorite versus though is Romans 828, which it says that God works all things for good. For those who love him, it’s a very free and liberating verse. For those of us that are Christians, because we believe that when things can be really bad, got us working it for his good, it’s perfect and pleasing. Well, which is a very, very hard teacher. When you come across business closures or staff playoffs. But it’s very liberating that God is working all things towards it, all food good. So I love that and it kind of is very freeing that I don’t have to be in charge of everything. And there is a God. And not him and I surrender. As well, I appreciate that.

[MCG]

Yeah. So here Charlie saying his favorite verse is Romans 828, and we all know this verse. All things work together for good to them that love God. And I always want to emphasize the Bible didn’t say all things work together for your good. And always love to cross reference this with Philippians one in verse 12 we are poorly speaking fee but I would he should understand brethren that the things which happen unto me have fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel. Charlie said his favorite verse. Was. And we know that all things work together for good. I believe that God, that Romans. 828 is talk. Been about is what Philippines won $12.00 the furtherance of the gospel and what have we seen over the last couple of weeks since Charlie have been assassinated. I think Charlie’s death, like Paul suffering, has led to the furtherance of the gospel. We see what happened at these removal service. And there was no doubt, of course I didn’t agree with everything that happened at the moral service. I didn’t agree with all the speakers, but overall, overwhelmingly, I think Christ was lifted up. And as Jay said, and as the Bible said in John 12, verse 32. And if I be lifted up.

[Jay]

Definitely.

[MCG]

From the earth, I will draw all men unto you, and I think that is the important thing here. Yeah, that Christ has been lifted up, and Charlie’s death had a fortunate that it is for his wife, for his kids, for his family, for the country. I think it has gone on to the furtherance of the gospel and day I say, we can rejoice in that.

[Jay]

Yeah.

[MCG]

So before we jump into any, we want to talk about the many conspiracies surrounding his debt and any of them credible. I’m gonna just throw some of them out there. Some of them say his own security is the one who shot him. Some people I get at their entry room was actually from the back. And the wound that we see on the video was actually exit wound. Some people said that they stole the SD card from the cameras that were there. There was a little bit of myth. Whether he and Candice Owens were still friends. Do you believe any of these conspiracies surrounding his death that have come out?

[Jay]

Oh, you forgot when apparently Israel did it, and that’s another one. I think what’s happening there perhaps, is that when you have something.

[MCG]

Oh yeah. True.

[Jay]

Shocking people just can’t believe that it happened and something’s gotta be up, right? And then there are people that no matter what you tell them, they’re not gonna trust what the FBI says. They don’t. They don’t trust the FBI as far as you can throw them. And so they’re going to look at incomplete pieces of evidence and come up with their own solutions. Of course, you have people who are ideologically driven because they hate Israel so much, they’re gonna find a way to pin it on Israel. We’ve got people that will try and pin it on the FBI. There’s just a multitude of different conspiracy theories. I’m right now not leaning, but now I do have some questions about what weapon was used, the ammunition, because I find it just a way bit difficult to believe that around like a 30 ought 6 can do so little damage I was expecting. More of a well, I mean not that I was expecting anything. I I didn’t want to see the video for several hours after it happened, but if it was indeed the round that they said, I would expect to see greater carnage perhaps or. Destruction of human anatomical structures. I don’t know how to say it without being gruesome, but so I have questions about that. But generally I think it happened right before our eyes. You could see that he was shot in the neck from the front. You could see the expansion of the neck with all of the what do they call it? Like the conical damage that happens just. From the sheer velocity of the round going into the physical structures, you could see the expansion of the neck. You could see immediately the blood pouring out. Like I said, as a faucet and it was. Dark red blood. So you know that was coming from a vein. I think it hit the jugular. But initially you could see bright red spewing out initially when it hit. So I think both the carotid and these regular were hit. There was an automatic neurological response where his legs kind of tightened up and his arms drew upward. So that tells me that. Perhaps there was spinal cord damage. I think it just destroyed all of the structures in the neck and and I don’t think trying to drill through and find different conspiracy theories is going to help any and well. We need to take into realization as well. JFK was assassinated well over 50 years ago, and we’re still coming up with new assassination theories. For him, and that was 50 years ago, if not 60. Yeah, you’re right. 60 can’t do math. You’re right. 60 years ago. And there’s still new conspiracy theories about him. And so I don’t know if that’s just a natural thing that happens as people try to cope and grapple with what happened, but I don’t believe any of it. I don’t think Israel did.

[MCG]

60 actually.

[Jay]

But it’s funny because Nick Fuentes, who is about as anti Zionist and anti Jew as you, get even he was like come on guys, Israel didn’t do it. So if he’s saying that Israel didn’t do it, I tend to believe Israel didn’t do it. But when you’re driven by that particular ideology, everything is from that lens that becomes your whole personality. You can’t help but see a boogeyman. Under every corner, you can’t help but to see a Jew under every rock and say, Oh yeah, Israel did it. So no, I don’t believe any of the conspiracy theories. I think we saw what happened. And as tragic as it is, I don’t think any of the conspiracy theories hold water.

[MCG]

Yeah, I agree with you. I think all of them are garbage. I would like to see. He and I guess this will come out should the case go to trial. His autopsy.

[Jay]

For sure, yeah.

[MCG]

What happened there? Because the round and the rifle that is used, you know that a lot of people say, OK, as you said, the velocity of the bullet and all that stuff. And the truth is that we just don’t know because it was an old rifle. It was when a mother Model 6. Or something like that I. Don’t know you’re the gun guy. Something like that. And he was firing the 30 odd 6 and he owned by his grandfather. And I think they said that that gun was manufactured probably in 1906 or something like that. So keep that in mind and then also keep in mind that the round 30 ought 6 if he had a mother.

[Jay]

Mm-hmm.

[MCG]

In cartridge, a modern round which we don’t know if he did, but he had a modern round. The weight of the bullet would be about 100 grains, 150 grains or something, maybe a little less, a little bit more. That would be the weight of the bullet itself. But The thing is, is what? We don’t know if it’s a much older ammunition, the amount of gunpowder in it. Could be significantly less than what they were put in there. The day and the gunpowder would be better technology than what would be back then. So given the fact that he was a grandfather rifle, maybe who also was his grandfathers round? Who knows? Some people keep animation for years upon years upon years and then also we don’t know if it was a like a full metal jacket or hollow point or whatever the case may be a soft tip. So there’s a lot of things that you can’t just say because he was a rifle and keep in mind also, when it comes to rifle, you have their permanent wound pads and then they have the temporary wound part. So the temporary room part is the part that would destroy the tissues around it. That’s why when it comes to being shot by a pistol come being to being shot by a rifle is that the pistol you don’t really have much of A temporary room part. So what did he get? Hit is what got damaged. Of course, if you’re using something like a hollow point and pieces can break off and go different ways, whole different thing. And I’m no expert in Ballistics. I’m just. How much you’re in this thing, but when it comes to the rifle, the temporary room, part skin stretch, and because of course, most of our tissues are water anyway, so it stretched. But once you wear heard, it could be that when he entered. The bullet was diverted down his back somehow, and that’s why he didn’t exit. Because you would imagine that if a human gets shot from a rifle in the neck, it would come out. But if it hit bone, or especially if it was like maybe hollow point or something, it could have easily got filled his body absorb a lot of the energy and it went downward, which kind of makes sense why he didn’t come out. But I would like to hear a lot more about.

[Jay]

Mm-hmm.

[MCG]

The weight of the bullet, the mouth of gone. Water, even when the balloon was manufactured and all this stuff, and how they river perform under FBI testing, they have to fire it to prove the rifling and everything that the bullet that they recovered from his body was fired from the same rifle that they recovered in the bushes and stuff like that. So I would like to see all that, but everything else I put it on the garbage and lipstick and provide more evidence that.

[Sam]

It’s true. Yeah. I mean, so for me. When Charlie Kirk was shot, I didn’t really think of Israel as being the ones behind it. I haven’t really considered that conspiracy theory. I wonder what people say the motive would be, what it looks to me like is that Charlie was attacked by Antifa, who was behind Antifa? I don’t know. I do think that there were a support. There was some support. Behind this, I don’t think that the gunman was all by himself.

[Jay]

Interesting.

[Sam]

Yeah. And the FBI, they officially haven’t said that he’s a lone gunman either. I know the news has reported that, but officially, the FBI says that they’re checking into the theory that. We had support.

Speaker

Hmm.

[Jay]

Is it because they went online and all of his chat? I don’t know what they call them, like the chat message boards and everything that there were people that had knowledge of what was going to happen. So they think there’s maybe more to it than that. Is that what you’re talking about or referring to? Like they’re people who had before knowledge?

[Sam]

I think that’s part of it, but I think more immediately, you know, after the shooting happened, the police immediately and I believe this was the state police, Utah. They arrested a guy.

[Jay]

Mm-hmm.

[MCG]

I think it was a university police actually.

[Sam]

An older yes. Yeah. Good point. He did end up as far as I’m aware in Utah State custody, though, and they interrogated him for a.

[MCG]

Right.

[Sam]

Bit.

[Jay]

Are you guys talking about like the old guy, the old guy, that?

[Sam]

As far as I’m aware.

[MCG]

Right.

[Jay]

Initially said I did it. I.

[Sam]

There were two guys. Yeah, there were two guys that they interviewed and detained for a bit. Yeah. One of them, I think, first said that he did it. And I heard some other interesting things about this guy. I have not looked into it. So I don’t know how true it is, but I was hearing that maybe you did look into it, that he decided to expose himself to the crowd or whatnot.

[Jay]

Did it.

Oh.

[Sam]

Like gather more attention. Have you heard that or is that?

[Jay]

When they pulled him away, his pants were at his ankles, so I don’t know if that’s what that. Because I just thought he was being detained or something. But maybe he was trying to distract or give the shooter time to get away. It’s odd that that would be the first thing in his mind to do. He wasn’t the only one. There’s also a long haired guy that was pumping his arms and cheering toward a camera behind him. I don’t know if they were trying to delay and give the shooter time to get away too, so yeah, there might be other people.

[Sam]

OK.

[Jay]

Involved in this some sort of conspiracy or something.

[MCG]

Well, he said he was trying to distract the shooter, but anyways, yeah.

[Jay]

Well, the guy that was pumping his arms. Yeah. OK. OK. Yeah, right.

[Sam]

Yeah, right. Yeah, let’s. Me. But you know, I mean, maybe the guy pumping his arms could just be simply a guy who was excited to see Charlie die. Which is terrible. Yeah, and maybe he wasn’t part of a of a calculated conspiracy. Mm-hmm. But the guy, the older man again, that they detained the first one. I mean, if he’s saying he’s the one who did it, but he knows. He’s not. Then why would you do that, you know?

[MCG]

Well, he I further understand he had a long history of doing nonsense like that. So he’s a political agitator, so.

[Sam]

The history I heard on this guy is very strange. Like he was there for. Is this what we’re told? That he was there for 911 and then he was there for the Boston Marathon bombing and then he was there for many other, I don’t know, violent.

[Jay]

Maybe he’s just not right in the head.

[Sam]

And then he does have a record because they arrested him. There was another marathon bombing that was supposed to happen. But somehow they caught wind of it and he was somehow caught up with that and they arrested him for that. Right and.

[MCG]

I think he spent time in jail for that, and right now I think they are also charging him for obstruction of justice and some other stuff because of what he did. So he’s awaiting trial.

[Sam]

Again, so technically, if they’re charging him with obstruction of justice, sounds to me like they think he’s part of this effort, you know, to get Charlie in some way.

[MCG]

No, no. I think obstacle of justice doesn’t mean that. Basically, I think what they really charging him in layman’s term is that you wasted our time and lied to us about illegitimate investigation into a crime. I think that’s what they were saying. I think it’s a fancy word for saying, hey, dude, go away. We’re busy here and you’re talking about time. So we’re just gonna stop people. Some charges not to make light of it, but I think that’s what they were saying in that respect. No.

[Sam]

Yeah, yeah. Interesting. But yeah, I do think that there was A and I think that the government does think that the guy was not operating all by himself. I guess for me, the other thing. I look at is, if you look at his text messages, he seems to be very much aware of where the police cars are and he talked about, if I remember correctly in his sex messages, something that was happening on the other side of town and maybe he’s just well thought out. But for me, if I’m on the run after shooting somebody, I’m not so sure how or where I’d be of what’s going on. Elsewhere in the town, you know?

[MCG]

Remember, he was kind of scoping out the area to get his rifle back. That’s what he said he wanted to go back and get his rifle, but there was a police car parked in the area, so he wasn’t able to get to it without being seen. So because remember he told. His boy girlfriend that he has to stay in the area little bit longer so but yeah.

[Sam]

Yeah, but you’re a fugitive. Let’s just say you’re a fugitive. You just shot somebody you’re trying to run from the cops. OK, fine. Maybe you may know what’s going on in the woods where you buried your gun because you’re trying to scope that out and get your gun back. But how do you know what’s? Going on on the other. Side of town. I mean, he could have Googled it, right? It could be that simple to me. It just seems. Very likely that he had help. I’m not saying that he had help, but I just think that.

[MCG]

That would be interesting. I would be surprised if he did.

[Jay]

Yeah.

[MCG]

I’ll be very surprised if you did. I don’t know, understanding what the FBI said. Wasn’t that necessary? That they were looking for someone else? I understand it that they’re going to follow every lead on every stuff. So they investigating Antifa and also this other group that he was doing because remember, he was. I remember the name of the group, but it was something ferries or something. And then also there’s this other. Yeah. Lgbtqi. The group that actually train LGBTQ people with firearms and stuff like that and encourage them to take up arms so they are also investigating that group that I saw as well. So you know, I don’t know. I will say all of them are garbage until I can get more facts but.

[Jay]

And I don’t think we’ll get more facts until it it plays out in court. But if he pleads guilty, then from what I understand, I might be showing how ignorant I am here. But there won’t be a trial if he. Pleads guilty and so there won’t.

[MCG]

Right. But after a certain time, I think you can. Or your whatever discovery the prosecution had. So you might have to wait.

[Jay]

A while only discovery if they’re going to trial, right?

[MCG]

Well, this discovery right now meaning discovery mean that they got him evidence and all this stuff. So what evidence? They got her, they share evidence with each other. And whatever the case may be. So I’m calling the entire process discovery where they got him the evidence and all this stuff. And even long before he pleads guilty.

[Jay]

Oh OK. Gotcha. Gotcha.

[MCG]

I would imagine they would have to defend the lawyer out, evidence they have against him and the lawyer will say, hey, man, let me encourage you to plead guilty to maybe a plea deal or something where he doesn’t get the death penalty or something. Mm-hmm. Along that line, I would imagine that there you, the state will say, hey, when I got upset, a plea deal because we’re gonna put you to debt because of course, they wouldn’t go beyond. And tried to charge him with aggregated murder so they can have the death penalty on him. I think that’s what the purpose. I think their persecution I’ve already said they want to go for the death penalty as well. So I’m not quite sure they would want to accept a plea deal and in a high profile case like this, I think a plea deal will probably be a slap in the face.

[Jay]

Yeah, for sure.

[MCG]

But. So I don’t know version.

[Sam]

One thing regarding conspiracy theories. Again, this is not saying that there were other people assisting Tyler, but it does look like. But, you know, officially it’s a possibility, NBI Director Cash Patel, September 17 of this year spoke to Congress. And or spoke to the Senate. Let’s see. No, it’s it’s to Congress, House, Judiciary Committee. And he made several statements. One of them was that they are. Let’s see. I just have the quote pulled up. They are meticulously investigating the theories and questions, right, so this is not saying it happened, but they’re investigating including location from where the shot was taken, possibility of accomplices, the text message confession and related conversations, discord chats, angle of the shot and bullet impact, how the weapon was transported. Hand gestures observed as potential signals near Charlie at the time of the assassination, and visitors to the alleged shooters residence in the hours and days leading up to September 10 of this year. That’s a direct quote from Cash Patel. And then elsewhere in this conversation with the House Judiciary Committee, he mentioned that there are 20 people that were in communication with Tyler Robinson that they are investigating at the moment.

[MCG]

Yeah, a number of that has been debunked, but yeah, definitely we need to wait until they’re done. So yeah. Anyways, so we normally in our episode with a presentation of the golf. Well, most episode we tried to do that, but for this episode I will let Charlie’s Pastor, Roy McCoy. I think his name, Charlie’s mentor Frank Turek, and Charlie himself, present the gospel as we end our episode here. So here firstly is. Rob McCoy.

[Pastor Rob McCoy]

Now my responsibility entrusted to be by my friend and his wife. You’re going to hear of what Charlie did, but I’m here today to tell you. The why in what he? Did. The why brought him the courage. The why brought him the wisdom and the strength. The why? Is the one that Charlie wanted. To welcome as the guest of honor. The guest of honor. His resume is long. He’s the King of glory. He’s the Prince of peace. He’s the savior of the world. He’s the living God. He’s the God of all mercy and grace. The total embodiment of love, the total embodiment of truth. And he’s here today to call his children back to him. From the thin veil of heaven, Charlie declares to all earthly powers and principalities who will gather here. They have come into the presence of the God of all creation. Charlie wanted his savior to be the guest of honor. He wanted all of you to receive this gift from him. The why and what he did. Charlie was never afraid. Because he knew his life was secure in the hand of God. Jesus left. The glory of Heaven’s throne for the humiliation of an earthly cross. He was fully tempted, yet was without sin. For those of you who. Struggle with the word sin. It’s real simple. It’s an archer’s. Term. Where the bullseye is and where the arrow lands, that’s called the sin distance. How far you’ve fallen from perfection, and there are none righteous. No, not one. We’ve all missed the mark the bullseye. And we try to get to God by our efforts, but there is no effort that will bring us back into the presence of the of a righteous God. You see the wages of sin is death. Charlie knew this, and at an early age he entrusted his life to the savior of the world. Jesus came to this earth. Was tempted in all ways, yet was without sin, was crucified upon across his blood, was poured out because blood must be shed for the remission of sins. And his death upon that cross was sufficient for all the world sins, but only efficient for those who, like Charlie, would receive him as their savior. Jesus has come to seek and save. That which is lost. And I would say this to all of you. The Lord loves you. He wants to save you. He wants to give you. A new life. He wants to cover the multitude of your sins by the blood he shed upon the cross. The Bible says if you believe in your heart and you confess with your tongue, Jesus as Lord you will be saved to the glory of the father. You see, Charlie looked at politics as an on ramp to Jesus. He knew if he could get all of you rowing in the streams of liberty, you’d come to its source. And that’s the Lord.

[Frank Turek]

And I want you to know. That we did everything we could to save Charlie. But Charlie was already gone. His face was looking at mine, but he wasn’t looking at me. He was looking past me right into eternity. And if it’s any comfort at all, I learned later that Charlie felt no pain. He died instantly. But we had to try and bring them back. We couldn’t. We couldn’t save him. Now I want you to know that Charlie right now is in heaven. And. Not because he was a great husband and father, not because he saved millions of kids out of darkness on college campuses. Not because. He changed minds and chased votes to save the country, not because he sacrificed himself for his savior. Charlie Kirk is in heaven because his savior sacrificed himself for Charlie Kirk. Now look. There’s only two things you can get in the afterlife. You can get justice or you can get grace. Ladies and gentlemen, does anyone in here does anybody out there watching around the world want justice from an infinitely just being? I don’t want justice. I want grace. Well, the only way to get grace for an infinitely just being. Is for him to punish an innocent substitute in our place. Where can he find an innocent substitute among us? He can’t. We’re all. Pulling. So what does this infinitely just and infinitely loving God do? He adds humanity to his deity. He comes to Earth. He allows the creatures that rebelled against him to torture and kill him so he could place their punishment upon himself, and then by trusting in him every one of us can be forgiven. And then given his righteousness. Ladies and gentlemen, this is the greatest story. Ever told and it happens to be true. There’s evidence for this, and Charlie knew it. Watch his videos. Charlie knew that life wasn’t just about money. It wasn’t just about sex. It wasn’t just about power. It wasn’t just about prestige. He knew that the purpose of life is to know Jesus and to make him known, to make heaven crowded. Charlie’s eyes were fixed on eternity. Where have your eyes been fixed? What have you been doing with your lives? What have you been doing? What are you going to do now? You know, in every evil God brings forth some ripples of good. In this case, he’s bringing a tsunami of good look around. You’re seeing it.

[Charlie Kirk]

Those of you that are not yet believers, it’s very simple. You’re gonna have a court date. We all die, and you’re all gonna meet the Supreme judge of the universe. Justice is getting what you deserve, which is going to a not so good place. We’re all centers, and we all fall short of the glory of God. But thanks to the cross, a perfect, loving God who came down in human form. Human flesh lived a perfect life and died for us so that we can live forever. At that moment, we’re about to get that sentencing into eternal damnation. Somebody says no. No, I know him. I know her. Welcome to eternal life. You have an opportunity to gospel in 4 words is Jesus took my place. 3 words is him for me. Two words is substitutionary atonement and one word is grace. Grace, you can. And not earn grace. You do not pay for it. Doesn’t matter how much money you give to the hospital, you can’t earn. It doesn’t matter if you’re a good person. It doesn’t matter if you have always done the best you can. Because what’s different about Christianity is that it’s a gift for all of humanity to receive, regardless of everything that we have done and your life will be transformed. You will be born again. Grace is not earned. It is given by a God who loves you and wants to spend eternity with you. It is the most important decision you can make in your life.

[MCG]

Mr. Sam, we’ll end it right day. Thank you so much for joining us on the removing various podcasts.

[Sam]

MCG Jay. Thanks for having me.

[MCG]

Thank you for listening. To get a hold of us to support this podcast or to learn more about removing barriers. Go to removingbarriers.net. This has been the removing barriers podcast. We attempted to remove barriers so that we all can have a clear view of the. Cross.