Episode 76

On this latest installment of the On the Mission Field series of the Removing Barriers Podcast, we go to Dearborn, MI and talk to pastor Josh Levesque. Dearborn is known as the Islamic capital of the United States, with more Muslims per capita than any other city in the country. While this presents some challenges to evangelism that other missionaries may not face, it also creates unique opportunities and perspectives. Join us on this episode of the Removing Barriers podcast as Josh Levesque explains the heart of evangelism, church planting, and missions, sharing his experience and his heart as he seeks to follow Christ in breaking up fallow ground right here in the United States.

I’ve talked to some pastors in the region who have said they’ve seen as many as a dozen churches close or leave the city in the past 20 years. Gospel preaching churches. And it’s a city where there are empty Church buildings, churches that have been turned into mosque. It’s a place where people have said, why in the world world are you going there to plan a Church? And I remind myself that the Church works everywhere. And last time I checked, Dearborn, Michigan, wasn’t the gates of hell.

Thank you for tuning in to the Removing Barriers podcast. I’m Jay and I’m MCG, and we’re attempting to remove barriers so we can all have a clear view of the cross. This is episode 76 of the Removing Barriers podcast, and this is the fifth in the series of Under Mission Field. And in this episode, we’ll be going on the mission field, but we will not be going very far. Pastor Josh Levesque is joining us from Dearborn, Michigan in the United States.

Pastor Josh, it’s a pleasure and welcome to the Removing Barriers Podcast. Hello. Thank you so much for including me. I’m glad to be on. Great. Thank you for placing us into your busy schedule.

All right, let’s dive right into it. Pastor Josh, tell us about yourself, your calling, your family, whatever you feel comfortable sharing. Yeah. So my name is Josh Levesque and I’m married. I have three children who are all in bed right now, so that’s the only quiet we get around here. But I am born and raised in Michigander, and my father was a Church planter. He started a Church when I was two years old. So I grew up in a pastor’s home and a Ministry home, and I grew up in a Church plant. I got to experience that first hand and always knew that that’s what I wanted to do. I wanted to serve God. I wanted to use my life to spread the gospel. I wasn’t quite sure how that would look, but I accepted Christ at an early age. I saved at seven and surrendered my life to Ministry shortly thereafter and was always on that trajectory. But when it came time for College, I pursued my passion of computer science and programming. I thought, hey, this is a way that God could use me. And I was kind of trying to chart my course there, mainly because I didn’t want to preach. I was very introverted, still am, but didn’t see myself doing that and took about halfway through my College years at Pensacola Christian College, Lord redirected me to pastoral Ministry. I started to preach, and Lord really changed my direction, changed my desires. Preaching is now my favorite thing in the world. It’s the most amazing thing I get to do. And he’s given me amazing opportunities to preach all over the place, and I’m very thankful for those opportunities that I’ve had. But after graduating as a pastoral major, I had the opportunity to go on staff at my home Church, and I served there for nearly six years as an assistant pastor before the Lord really directed us on this journey of Church planting.

Oh, man, I am so happy, Pastor, that I get to speak to someone who is born and raised in Michigan. We homeschooled our kids, and right now we’re going through the different denominations for each state. So what do you call someone that’s from a particular state? And when it came to Michigan, we were like, is it Michiganian? Is it Michigander? Which one is it? And you being born and raised in Michigan, said Michigander. So now we know exactly what the right minem is, and I’m so glad Michiganian is a common mistake. It’s Michigander. Michigander got it. Great. How long have you been on the mission field, Pastor? Well, I’d say as far as in Dearborn here. We’ve been working our way to Dearborn for about two years now, but we officially moved to Dearborn back in July of 2021. So we’ve been here nearly a year and we’ve had a great start to the work here and great start to the Church plan. So we have already made it home. We have a nice place here and Lord has blessed us. And so we are at home on the mission field.

Amen. Solve the mystery for us. Pastor Some people call it being on the mission field. Some people call it Church planting. Yeah. Do you call yourself a Church planter or a missionary? And why? If you have a difference? Yeah, I’ll use both terms. Some people use the term missionary to exclusively means someone who takes the gospel across some cultural or geographic barriers, which I believe is part of what we’re doing here in Dearborn. There are definitely cultural barriers to be dealt with, so it is mission work in that sense. But I take a simpler approach to even the term missionary. I’ve always defined a missionary as a Christian on a mission. And so any Christian who accepts the Great Commission as their purpose in life is a missionary. And I think we should all be missionaries and mission minded. I do particularly favor the term Church planter, though, because that is what I believe the fruit of the Great Commission is. Ultimately it should be resulting in local churches. And so our aim here is mission work, but the goal is to plant a Church. And then a much wiser person than me said that every Christian is a missionary and unsaved person is a mission field. Definitely see that.

So how long have you known the Lord? You said you got saved when you are seven. You don’t have to tell us your age. But yeah, I was seven years old and I’m only 28. So large majority of my life, but I’ve known the Lord since then. It was the year 2000 that I accepted Christ and remember like it was yesterday, even at a young age of transforming experience for me to realize I always believed in God. That was never a question, but I realized that I was a sinner and that I was in need of a savior, and that when Jesus said on the cross he did for me and that I needed to accept that. I remember when all those dots kind of connected for me and I called on Christ to save me. Any wavering in your teenage years? A lot of folks we interview get saved when they’re young and they waver in their teenage years. Any of that for you? Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s common and that’s the result of childlike faith is enough to be saved. At that point, I didn’t know everything. I didn’t understand the workings of Salvation. I didn’t know a single thing about what we call soteriology or any of the doctrine behind how I got saved. I just knew the gospel, and that’s enough to be saved. But as I began to learn and began to hear other people’s testimonies and all these things, I started to doubt perhaps that what I did when I was seven years old wasn’t enough. Like, did I know enough that I do it right? Is that it? And it was really through my study of the Scriptures, the study of doctrines, that really gave me that assurance of my Salvation when I was a senior in high school and started to deal with some of those doubts. But through my own investigation, I came to the conclusion that absolutely was Salvation and that Salvation is that simple. All it needed was faith and that that was present and that I understood the things necessary to be saved. And so I always have held onto my seven year old Salvation. I think that’s great pastor, many well intentioned, well meaning teachers and preachers will tell someone who is doubting their Salvation, who’s having trouble with assurance, oh, you know, you just need to look back in your Bible on the date that you said a prayer and go back and just kind of put your faith in that day. That’s when you know, you got saved and you’re saying you went back and you studied the doctrines, you studied what thus say at the Lord about your Salvation? That’s what our faith is penned on. And so I think that’s really great. I’m glad you said that. That’s wonderful. Yeah. Some people say you should be able to go back and circle the date on the calendar. I don’t think everybody has that, especially if they were saved young. And some people it’s not as much of a big memorable date, but it ought to be a memorable experience. Even if you can’t circle a date on the calendar, I advise people I think you should be able to go and circle the place where you were the moment that you were in time, in your memory, because it is a transformative experience. It’s something that you should remember. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, definitely. So where in Michigan is Dearborn? Dearborn is basically West Detroit, so we share, like three borders with Detroit, right on the west side. So we’re about 15 minutes from downtown Detroit, so really close there.

Did you grew up a big Pistons fan? Oh, yeah. 2004 Pistons is the greatest team ever exists. I don’t know about that. But you had the Wallace Ben Wallace washed Wallace. Tashawn Prince, Republican. Oh, yeah. That was the team. I still got all the cards sent to Bill up. Don’t let me forget that one. Oh, brother. For the rest of the audience, I have no idea what’s going on right now. They’re talking about sports. Well, the only reason I remember that team so well is because they beat the Lakers, which I was opposed to any team that was going against the Lakers. Yes, definitely. It’s a great time.

All right, tell us about Dearborn, because the first time I’ve heard about Dearborn was on the news, and they described Dearborn was that this is the Muslim or the Islamic capital of the United States. Tell us about Dearborn, the people, the population. And is what we’re hearing on the news true? Is this the Islamic capital of the United States? I definitely think it’s fair to say that. I would say that Dearborn can hold that title, but Dearborn is significant in a number of ways, being here in Detroit. It’s the hometown of Henry Ford. And so it really is the town that Ford built. The Ford Motor Company is headquartered here in Dearborn. Large Ford Assembly plant, all the F 150s roll out of here. And so it’s a significant cultural place. I mean, the invention of the automobile happened here. And so there’s kind of a monument to the American spirit, the Henry Ford Museum. And things are here in the city. And so it’s a city that gets a lot of tourism. There’s a lot of industry, there’s a lot of business and things that goes on here. But because of some of the influence of Henry Ford and the Ford Motor Company, Dearborn became a hub of immigration. I mean, all the way back to the turn of the century, 1910s, 20s. And it kind of became a bit of an enclave of Arab culture and just grew from there. People wonder, like, why Dearborn of all places? Why Detroit? It doesn’t seem like the place that would end up having such a large Arab population, but that’s kind of where it started. But today, Dearborn is a city of 110,000. It is, I believe, like the 6th largest city in Michigan and kind of the heart of Metro Detroit down here. But even of that population, nearly 50%, I would argue over 50% of that population are of Arab ancestry. So you’re talking about some 50,000 Arab Peoples, and we’re talking Arab Americans, and that’s a pretty wide group of people that’s people people from Lebanon and Syria and Jordan, Palestinian, Egyptian, and so I think pretty much the whole Middle Eastern map is represented here in Dearborn. It’s a very diverse group of people. But because of that population, Islam has become the dominant religious presence here in Dearborn. And that’s pretty evident if you drive through the city. When I first became aware of Dearborn and started looking at it through the eyes of a Church planter, I started counting mosques. That was my first thing. I counted 14 mosques here in the city. And geographically, Dearborn is only about 6 miles across. It’s not huge geographically. It’s very dense in population, but some 14 mosques at least, including the Islamic Center of America, which claims to be North America’s largest mosque here in Dearborn. And in my County, I didn’t come across a single independent Baptist Church. Oh, wow. That’s sobering. Yeah. It was eye opening. Yeah. So there really just breakdown.

You said that about 51% of the population is probably Islam. What about the rest? 49%. 48%. Yeah. So 50% Arab is majority Muslim. There is a population here of people that would call themselves Christian, but that’s more of an Orthodox Christianity. There are some different forms from Lebanon. You have, like the Marionite Christians, so it’s more Catholic leaning Christianity amongst many of the Arab people. But you have some Arabs who are Roman Catholic, and that is the second dominant force here in Dearborn after Islam would be Roman Catholicism. And there is a small evangelical presence. But as far as institutional Christianity, as far as actual churches and operation, you pretty much were down to your mainline denominations, your Lutherans and your United Methodists and Presbyterian Church. The Baptist presence was all but gone here in the city of Dearborn itself. Wow.

As you’re describing the religious make up of the people of Dearborn, it’s interesting to me because from what I understand for the most part, anyone who is Muslim, when you ask them, what is Christianity? Their idea of Christianity is the Roman Catholic faith. And we spoke to a missionary who is serving overseas in the Middle East, and he said that whatever America does, that’s what their part of the country considers to be Christian, which is obviously a misrepresentation of the true biblical gospel. And so you pretty much have your work cut out for you. It sounds like when did the Lord first burden you about the souls in Dearborn and the need for a true gospel witness there. Yeah. So being a Michigander, I grew up always aware of Dearborn. And as a student in Michigan, you make your semiannual pilgrimage to the Ford Museum. Every student does it. And so I knew what Dearborn was. I knew where Dearborn was. And everybody knows the reputation of Dearborn, that it’s a Muslim city or that it’s an Arab city. And as I became increasingly aware of the real presence and strength of Islam, not just in Dearborn, but all over Michigan, Lansing and in Saginaw and in Flint, where I was originally from, I started to see it growing and spreading, and that kind of drew my attention to Dearborn itself. I studied the city in College a little bit, always kind of had my eye on it. And it wasn’t until two summers ago in a revival meeting as we were praying for the revival of the state of Michigan, that some people in the meeting started to pray for Dearborn. They didn’t know my background and the fact that I had kind of studied and had a heart for the city. And they began to pray that the Lord would send somebody there. And I was in this meeting and they prayed that the Lord would send a Church planner and that we would see a Church established in Dearborn. It’s really just the Holy Spirit leading that. And really, what was the moment that I said, I’ll look into this? If nobody else would go, I’ll go, yeah, that’s definitely a bold and courageous submission, because much like Isaiah and you say, Lord, he might send me.

What are some things that folks should keep in mind if they want to serve the Lord in Dearborn? Yes, Dearborn gets a bad rap a lot of the times, and a lot of what I’ve done is try to break some of the misconceptions of Dearborn. Dearborn really is a beautiful city, and there are a lot of wonderful people. And some of the best reception we’ve gotten are actually from the Arab people here. They’re very kind, very loving. They’re wonderful neighbors, usually willing to have a conversation, talk about religion. I can’t even tell you how many times going door to door. I’ve been invited in for lunch, given water, given tea. It’s been the norm, which I’ve gotten worse reception everywhere else I’ve gone in my hometown, other places, people won’t open the door. People are rude. We haven’t found that here in Dearborn. We found the opposite to be true. And there is an open door here, and it’s a good place to live. It’s a wonderful place to do Ministry and think it’s an essential place to do Ministry. I think we absolutely need to have a presence here. The gospel needs to be preached here. It’s an amazing opportunity. Dearborn gets compared to the Middle East, but it’s not the Middle East. It’s Michigan. It’s the United States of America. And we have all the freedom necessary to preach the gospel. Plan a Church to go door to door, to give out Bibles. You can’t do that in Middle Eastern countries, but you could do it here and you can do it without a lot of fear. And so I try to remind people of that. We have an amazing opportunity right here in our backyard with all the freedom that we need to preach the gospel and start a Church in a truly Arab community.

I love that you say that, Pastor. We were going to ask you, is Dearborn that much different from the rest of the United States? One would think that if 50% of the population has some sort of Arab heritage or culture or background, that the whole place would be like a Middle Eastern country. But you’ve described to us what seems to be a great opportunity to share the gospel with people who don’t know. And it doesn’t sound like they’re born is that much different from the rest of the US. We might point fingers and say, oh, well, all of the Muslim or Arab people or Arab descendant people there. But then in our own backyards, we’re filled with people who don’t know the gospel, who don’t know the Lord, who are just as lost as anybody else who has not received Christ. And it sounds like you’re saying that Dearborn is just another town in the US where it’s filled with unsaved people and it’s an opportunity for Christians to go and engage. Yeah, absolutely. I think it’s a unique place on top of being a center of Arab culture and a center of Islam in the country. You said it’s called the headquarters of Islam. I think that’s true. I think it’s the only majority Islamic city in the United States. Well, maybe other Hamtramck, Detroit or Dearborn Heights, but in this area, it’s pretty prevalent, and that’s unique. But what we have is an amazing opportunity, like I said, to preach the gospel in this place and see it spread to other places. And I hope that the things that we are able to learn here in Dearborn, we can take to other places because Islam is growing all around the country, and we want to be prepared to be able to share the gospel with our neighbors, share the gospel with the people in our community, and Airborne, it’s another city. We found a headquarters, a place where Islam is. But what we also found is a city of over 100,000 people without an active Baptist Church. And that ought not be the case. I think anywhere in the United States. Every community should have a gospel preaching Church that is active and nobody should live and breathe in the United States and not have an opportunity to hear the gospel for themselves. And places like Dearborn and a lot of our cities around the United States, that’s not the case. Somebody can be born, raised, go to school, go to College, get a job, get a career, and never have somebody present the gospel to them. And our goal is that that wouldn’t happen here until

as you’re speaking, pastor, I just wanted to ask something that I’m curious as to what you might say as Christians. I don’t want to paint this all with a wide brush, but we’re typically conservative politically. Do you find that it’s a struggle when you’re trying to talk to Christians about engaging the Muslim population? Of course, the conservative position toward Islam is not the same as the Christian position to Islam in the sense that as Christians, we want to reach them for Christ, we want to engage them, whereas the conservative would probably deal with them with a sort of standoffish, sort of, hey, these people are dangerous. Let’s not engage with them attitude. Do you find as a pastor, when you’re trying to encourage other Christians to engage, do you find it difficult to overcome the conservatism so that we could see the souls behind the ideology? Do you struggle with that at all? Yeah. So in answer to the political question, the Islam issue is a heavily political one. And like I said, a lot of what we’ve done is try to face a lot of the misconception. And a lot of people have this idea of Muslim built up into their mind into something that is scary. It’s intimidating. And you asked if Dearborn feels like a foreign country in some places, it does. It really does. The Arab culture has affected in such a way that it does feel foreign, and it can be very intimidating. There are high barriers of culture. There are high barriers of language. It can be an intimidating place to do Ministry. Some parts of the city and a lot of people have written Dearborn off for those reasons. And I’ve confronted a lot of met a lot of people who have this idea of, hey, if they want Dearborn, let them have it. Oh, wow. Which is not a Christian mindset. It’s not a missionary mindset. I think we absolutely ought to come to Dearborn. And we do it not out of hate. We don’t have anything against Muslim people. We do it out of love. We love Muslim people, especially those that have come to America, because we love our country, too. And we want everyone here to understand the gospel. That’s part of our passion. And so, yeah, there is a political barriers that are put up. And I would encourage people to put their gospel glasses on over that and see people for the souls that they are. I fully agree. We look at the world stage. Islam has been an enemy to the United States. Islam has been an enemy to Christianity in general. But you cannot put that on every single person that comes here to the US especially. That’s right. Many of them are very patriotic Americans, and they love America like you love America can’t necessarily paint with a broad brush that way. So even just living here and meeting a lot of people has helped change some of the misconceptions I had.

Is there a call for prayer in many Muslim cities around the world, you normally have what do you call it? Yeah, that’s a call to prayer. Call to prayer. Yeah. Call to prayer. Yeah. So there’s a couple of places in Dearborn that will have a call to prayer. One mosque that I’ve heard on the south end of Dearborn, and then there’s another mosque in Hamptram, Michigan, which is just kind of over the other side of Detroit. So there are some places that do that, and I’ve even just come across it culturally. I mean, a lot of people recognize it. And even if there’s no audible call, they’re religious and you can tell that they are. Yes.

Well, let’s dive a little bit deeper into the culture there. And Dearborn, would you say it is more of an Acts Chapter two, where people have more of a concept of who God is, of creation and stuff like that, or is more like Acts Chapter 17, where the people don’t know God is to an unknown God? How would you fit the culture of De Borne? Yeah, I’d say probably like anywhere else, you have a little bit of both, but predominantly Islam in general would be more of an Acts Chapter two, when you’re talking about the Jewish people as much as Jews and Muslims have been enemies, and you would think are the opposites of each other culturally, they’re actually very much the same when it comes to world view, very similar thinking. And so we actually share some common ground when talking with a Muslim person. They do believe in God. They do believe that there is only one God. They do believe that God created the Earth. Those are essential foundations that you kind of have to lay with what you would call an act 17 or a Greek thinking culture. But that ground doesn’t necessarily need to be laid as much with a Muslim person. With a Muslim person, it all comes down to who is Jesus? And what are you going to do with Jesus Christ? I’m by no means an expert on Islam or apologetics. I’ve done my fair share of studying and learning, but I’ve just tried to keep it simple and focus on the heart of the matter, which is the person of Jesus Christ. Amen.

If you were to describe some of the needs that, if filled, would make the task of sharing the gospel in Dearborn, Michigan easier, what would those needs be? Yeah. So I’d say generally there’s a need for laborers, and that’s been one of our prayers. When I surrendered to go to Dearborn, one of the first things I asked the Lord for is that we wouldn’t do it alone, that we would have co laborers to come here and strive together with us. And the Lord has answered that call. And we have a number of families who have come here with us and have committed to help in this endeavor. And I’ve met a number of others here in the city, Christian people who have the same heart and burden. And you don’t want to be a part of this work. But I’d say that there’s room for more. And Dearborn is a place that can probably take all the missionaries they could get. So we are certainly praying for more labor that the Lord would raise them up in our midst, raise them up right here in Dearborn, but that even others might come that have a burden to maybe do Islamic Ministry, maybe do Church planting. It’s a very unique opportunity that we have here in Dearborn to do both in a very influential place, and then beyond that, we are praying that the Lord would continue to grow our Church and that we would be able to find a permanent home here in the city. I’d say if we have one need one thing that would really open up our opportunities, it would be a Church home. Right now. We’d be in a hotel. And that’s very limiting in many ways as far as space and time and cost. So we’re praying and we’re asking God to show us where that step might be. We’re saving and raising money to be prepared to take that step. Very expensive here in the city, get real estate or to do construction or anything. So we’re praying and we’re preparing.

Pastor, what are some of the difficulties that are unique to reaching the lost in Dearborn? Definitely what’s unique in Dearborn is going to be that barrier of cultural Islam. Many people will claim to be Muslim as part of their identity. It is not just what they believe. It is who they are. And anyone who’s ministered in a Muslim context will tell you that there are some higher barriers for an Islamic person to even consider the gospel. And once the gospel has been considered to make that step of faith. And I’ve known missionaries and friends who have labored for years in Muslim context without a convert, and that’s the reality that we face. It’s a long game. It’s a game of patience. It’s a game of perseverance. It’s going to be about building relationships and building a lot of trust here in the city in order to be able to have fruitful gospel Ministry.

Well, you’re listening to the Removing Barriers podcast, we’re sitting down with Pastor Josh, Missionary or Church Planter to Dearborn, Michigan. We’ll be right back.

Hi, this is Jay MCG, and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to Removingbarriers. Net and subscribing to receive all things removing barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating@removingbarriers.net, donate Removing a Clear View of the Cross hey, thanks so much for listening to the Removing Barriers podcast. Did you know that you could find us on Twitter, Gab Parlor, Facebook and Reddit? Go to Removingbarriers. Netcontact and like and follow us on social media. Removing Barriers A Clear View of the Cross.

Well, pastor. Let’s go into a little bit of a fun section. Find out some of your favorites. What is your favorite scriptive verse? Yeah, so I have a lot of them. Give us a few most of the verses that I have claimed or would say our life verses come from the book of Romans. And I would say 115, that I’m not ashamed of the gospel of Christ as the power of God unto Salvation. And that’s always been a motivator for me not to be ashamed and not to hide. We want to be a public presence here in Dearborn. I have kind of known some to come and do some kind of undercover work, and that’s not what we came here to do. We want people to know who we are and what we believe and be bold, courageous. And so that verse has always motivated me. And then in Romans 15, verse 20, Paul describes his passion. His ambition, we could say, was to preach Christ where he had not been named. He wanted to, he would say remove barriers. He wanted to go to new places, he wanted to pioneer. He wanted to break new ground. And that’s a real and Apostolic mission. And I think that’s the heart of Church planting. It’s the idea to go to a new place and to start something new, to go to a place where perhaps the work has been abandoned and pick up the mantle and confront the Giants in the community. And so it’s pioneering work, and it’s something that you can really give your life to. That ambition of Paul’s has always been a motivator for me as well.

What is your favorite Bible history? Some people call it a Bible story, but we hate to use that word because we don’t think the Bible has any stories in it. It’s all history. What’s your favorite biblical historical account? Yeah. So I’d say right now the one that I’ve attached myself to in a personal way is that of Moses in the burning Bush. I’ve preached it a lot. It’s not why I grew the beard, but if it helps me be Moses, then it helps me. But I do love the person of Moses, the account of the burning Bush, and particularly the Lord’s God’s words through that Bush. Moses met with God that day, and God described his passion and his burden for the children of Israel, that God was aware of the suffering. He was aware of everything they were going through. But he reveals that he had a plan to alleviate that suffering. He had a plan to liberate them from bondage. And then he told Moses, you’re the plan, you’re the man, you’re going to go, I’m going to do this, but you’re going to go tell them. And so Moses got to be in that privileged position of being the messenger of Liberty. Like Jesus said, his mission on this Earth was to proclaim Liberty to the captives. And that’s what we all get to do. We get to go and tell people in bondage how to be free. And what better thing in the world is there than that?

Since you mentioned the beard, let’s detour a little bit. Why the beard? Usually, most people in Independent Fundamental Baptist realm don’t have such a should I say a man beard like what you have there? Yeah. Thank you. It was something I always wanted. I always wanted to grow beard, and I never had the opportunity to. I went to Christian school, had to shave. What? Christian College had to shave. And my summer job, I worked asbestos abatement. I had to wear a respirator. So I always had to be clean shaven. So once I got out of College and everything, I’m like, all right, it’s time. I’m going to let it go. And I actually started growing the beard when I had an opportunity to go to the Middle East, which unfortunately was COVID canceled like everything else in 2020. But the beard stuck, and it’s part of me now. I thought you were just going to say, man, I grew up, that’s all. Yes. They say there’s two kinds of people in the world that don’t have beards. It’s women and children. All right. I’ve never heard that before. I won’t cause any more trouble.

What is the most convicting scripture passage to you? Wow. Most convicting scripture passage to me. Okay. One that has always been convicting to me and maybe in a unique way is, you know, actually from a parable when Jesus was recounting the idea that to whom much is given, much shall be required. That verse has always weighed heavily on my heart and my mind and for the reason that I’ve been given so much. God has been so good to me, and I’ve been so privileged to have the family that I did have Godly parents to grow up in Church. I got to go to Christian school. I’ve learned the Bible before I could speak. And God has given that to me. And I feel that there is a burden placed on me, a responsibility to steward all of that and to do something great for God, because he’s done so many great things for me. Amen.

What is the most comforting scripture of passage or verse for you? The flip side, the other side of the coin here. As a Church planter, I have to say that the verse that I’ve attached myself to as a comfort is from the Gospel of Matthew. Jesus Christ said, I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Dearborn Michigan is a unique place. It’s a place where I’ve talked to some pastors in the region who have said they’ve seen as many as a dozen churches close or leave the city in the past 20 years. Gospel preaching churches. And it’s a city where there are empty Church buildings, churches that have been turned into mosque. It’s a place where people have said, why in the world are you going there to plan a Church? And I remind myself that the Church works everywhere. And last time I checked, Dearborn Michigan wasn’t the gates of hell. It’s a great place, and it’s a place full of people that need the gospel. And Jesus Christ promised he build his Church anywhere and so he can do it here.

What is your favorite hymn of the faith? Favorite hymn of the faith. So many wonderful ones. We’ve been enjoying singing hymns in the Church plant and sung some great ones. I see. You asked me about if I ever had doubts about my Salvation. And one of the things that when I was praying over that and asking God to help me understand and to be sure was to him blessed assurance. And I even remember that at that time when I was just praying, asking God to help me, it was actually that hymn that came to my mind. And the words that Jesus is mine owed a foretaste of glory divine. I have eternal life right now, and so I’ve always loved that. And every time I sing it, I think of that moment where Christ really gave me that assurance to know that I’m never going to die. I’m going to live forever, because eternal life doesn’t begin when you die. It begins when you’re saved. And so we already have that.

Who is your favorite giant of the faith? From the scriptures. From the scriptures. Well, I already told you about my affinity for Moses, so I’ll tell you about my other favorite bearded Bible character is John the Baptist. And I’ve been preaching on John the Baptist. I really associate a lot with him, and he received high praise from Jesus. But his single verse mantra of he must increase, I must decrease has really become a mission statement of mine, and it gives place for ambition and Christmas increase. That’s what my life is about. I want more people to know about Jesus than ever before, and so we can be ambitious. But on the flip side, I must decrease. And so it’s ambition. But it’s not ambition for myself, it’s ambition for Christ. No self ambition. And so John the Baptist has been an inspiring character to me and someone that I look up to and emulate.

Thank you so much for listening to the Removing Barriers podcast. Make sure to rate us everywhere. You listen to podcasts, including Spotify, Apple Podcast, Google Podcasts, or Stitcher. Removing barriers, a clear view of the cross.

What are some of the biggest barriers to the people of Dearborn? You say you’re going to knock on doors and they invite you in and stuff like that. When you start talking to them and expounding the gospel, what are some of the biggest barriers you see that they may manifest within them, form them receiving the gospel, making that final step? Yeah. If we’re talking specifically about Islam, there are some particular barriers. And across Dearborn as well, you get a lot of spiritual apathy, which is the norm in modern culture and in America. People that just really don’t care, they haven’t thought about those things that’s there. But when it comes particularly to Islam and the Muslim people. Islam is like I said, it’s a culture, it’s an identity. And so it’s a hard thing for people to think outside the context of and inside of Islam. They have their own lines of apologetics against the Scriptures, against Jesus. And so many of the people who have been willing to talk have come at me with some ready responses. And so it’s a hard thing think about how hard it would be for someone to convince you to walk away from Christ. That’s how ingrained many Muslim people are. And they truly do believe they’re very religious. So that’s a hard thing to do. It’s something that takes time. And ultimately it’s going to be a work of the Holy Spirit that’s going to get us past some of those barriers here in Dearborn. Yeah.

Tell us, by maybe specifics of the gospel or going into the gospel, how can those barriers be ultimately removed? Yeah. So it’s something that we’re praying for. And I ask everybody, just pray for Dearborn, if you think of it, pray for us here. And Christ said that the Holy Spirit would do the work of convincing the world of sin and a righteousness and of judgment. And that first step, convincing the world of sin, is something that is in the hearts and minds of people already. But when I ask people to pray, I like specific prayers. The Bible says, you have not because he has done. I believe sometimes we have not because we asked that even though we’re praying because we don’t pray specifically, we have a way of praying without asking for anything. And so when we pray, ask for what you want, ask what you want to see happen. And so I say pray in this way. Pray that the Holy Spirit would do its work of convincing the men and women of Dearborn of their sinfulness, that’s the first step of their need for a savior, of their separation from God. And that’s barrier number one, and then secondly, of righteousness, that they would be convinced of the righteousness of Jesus Christ and the authority of the Scriptures and the deity of Jesus Christ, and then of judgment of their personal need to accept Jesus Christ on behalf of their sins. And we as Christians understand this process to be the gospel. This is how someone is saved. And yet every single one of those steps is a barrier unto itself. Every single one of those steps is going to be a work of the Holy Spirit, supernaturally in someone’s mind and in someone’s heart. And so these are the walls that are keeping people from the gospel. These are the barriers. And so we can only preach the gospel. We can do what we’ve been commanded to do, and the Holy Spirit does the rest. Amen.

Pastor Josh, it was a pleasure. Thank you for joining us on the Removing Barriers podcast. Thank you for having me. Thank you for listening to get a hold of us to support this podcast or to learn more about removing barriers, go to removingbarriers.net. This has been the removing barriers podcast. We attempted to remove barriers so that we all can have a clay view of the cross.