Episode 65

A cursory video search for people who claim to have visited Heaven will yield tens of thousands of results. But as an old gospel quartet song says, “Heaven! Heaven! Everybody talkin’ ’bout heaven ain’t goin’ there!” What is this wonderful place that everyone seems to believe is so great? What is it like, who goes there, who decides, and when? Join us on this episode of the Removing Barriers Podcast as DW, MCG, and Jay tackle these questions and more.

Not just everybody else’s sin, but my sin. I should have been on that cross. I should have been the one that was emaciated by that Roman soldiers lashing. I should have been the one that had my beard torn out and be spat upon. I should have been that one because I have offended a Holy and a righteous God with my sin.

Thank you for tuning in to the Removing Barriers Podcast. I’m Jay and I’m MCG, and we’re attempting to remove barriers so we can all have a clear view of the cross.

This is episode 65 of the Removing Barriers Podcast. And in this episode, we will be discussing heaven and a Holy God. And joining us in this episode is a usual suspect. Dw you’re back. I am back. Thanks for having me back. Why do you keep? I keep wondering what. Why do you keep on coming back? Well, you keep inviting me back, which I am very thankful for, by the way, shift the blame on me, even after I said to someone that I wouldn’t consider you my friend. I am very hurt. I mean, I’m devastated. Can you see the tears? Good. I’m happy. It’s the only hurt I can dishout on you. Well, welcome back. And thank you for joining us. It’s always a pleasure to have you. And as I said in this episode, we’ll discuss in Heaven and the Holy God, but before we dive into it, let’s define heaven.

How would you define heaven? Dw. Well, the Bible talks about three heavens, actually, in Genesis One one, a lot of people will quote that verse and say, in the beginning, God created the heavens. But the Bible actually says in the beginning, God created the heaven singular and the Earth. And then a few verses later, so that’s Genesis One one. And then a few verses later, in verse seven, it says that he separated the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament. And then verse eight, it says that he called the firmament heaven. So there’s outer space that would be the first heaven. Then there’s the sky, which God refers to as heaven as well. And those are both physical places. But then in second Corinthians, chapter twelve, Paul talks about being caught up to the third heaven, and that’s the place where God dwells. That’s a spiritual place where God actually inhabits their Angels. There a lot of people when they describe heaven, they’re actually describing the New Jerusalem with the streets of gold and so forth. But the third heaven is the place where God dwells. So that’s the heaven that we’re going to be talking about today. Yeah. Interesting fact, I never noticed that people will say heavens when the Bible actually say heaven in Genesis one one. So that’s interesting.

So why don’t we distinguish between the New Jerusalem and heaven before we get into the meat of the episode? Because as you said, I think that a lot of folks, when they describe heaven, they actually describe in a new Jerusalem. Can the New Jerusalem be referred to as heaven as well? In a way, yes. Because when the new heaven and new Earth are made, then the new Jerusalem is going to come down out of heaven, and God is going to dwell with men. And so some people say, wherever God is, that’s where heaven is, because heaven is his dwelling place, the new heaven, the new Earth. The New Jerusalem will be dwelling there with God. So it’s almost like the three places are really one, whereas the Bible gives the understanding that they are distinctly different. But they are at the same time, sort of the same. It’s sort of like a county or rural municipality like we have in Canada. And then inside of those areas, the county or the RM, then they’ve got cities and so forth. And so even though they are distinctly different, they’re all still part of the same thing. So, yes, in a matter of speaking, the new Jerusalem and heaven are essentially the same. You could look at them that way. I think it’s a fair thing to do just to clarify, does that mean that the New Jerusalem is basically the third heaven coming down physically, that we could see it in this realm? Is that what you mean, or am I misunderstanding you? The Bible says that the New Jerusalem will come down out of heaven, actually, that’s why I say they’re different. But that’s going to be the ultimate dwelling place of Saints. So they could essentially be seen as the same thing. But since that’s the ultimate or the eternal dwelling place of the Saints with God, they are essentially the Saints. These things are kind of hard to understand. And when you look at the dimensions of the New Jerusalem, it’s like the size of the United States, so it’s enormous. We can’t even really understand this huge Cube. That’s the length and height and breadth of the United States coming down out of heaven and coming down to Earth. But that’s what the Bible says. So that’s what’s going to happen. Like I said, that’s the ultimate dwelling place of all the Saints, heaven and Earth will essentially be now one. They won’t be separated any longer because God will dwell with men. So it’s kind of hard to make a distinguishment. It’s sort of like trying to understand the difference between the soul, the body and the Spirit. Where does the spirit and the soul and the body end? And where does the other one begin? It’s really difficult. It’s like three overlapping Spider webs. Which where does the first Spider web and the second Spider web begin? It would be really hard to figure that out. Right. Second, Corinthians twelve. When Paul is talking about the guy he knew being caught up in the third heaven, he also refers to it as paradise. Are they one in the same then. So is it right to say that third heaven is paradise? I would say so. I would say so as well. Okay. Definitely.

All right. So that’s the definition of heavens. And we’re going to be talking about for the purpose of this podcast, the third Heaven or the throne of God, where God is. At some point through the podcast, we might interchange heaven with the New Jerusalem. But our goal is not to get anyone confused. But as DW said, at some point, they seem to intertwine and be the same thing. Hence the reason why when other folks describe heaven, they actually describe in the New Jerusalem. But we’ll try to make a distinction as we go to the podcast. But if you want to think about both of them as the same, no one will get on you for that. So I think we already touched on this a little bit, but it’s heaven a real place. What would you say, Jay? Do you think heaven is a real place? Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think heaven is a real place. Some people, when you talk to them, they would say that heaven is what we make of our life on Earth right now. Heaven and hell is here. They would say so. It’s just this idea of how we can live comfortably or our best life now, as a smiley preacher would say. But the Bible makes it clear that it’s a very real place. It describes it in concrete terms, describes it as a place that we go to upon death, those of us that die in Christ. The Bible describes heaven in terms of what we’ll be doing there. What’s actually already there. Dw mentioned the New Jerusalem. You put the caveat ahead of time about the minor distinction there, or trying to blur the lines there. But the descriptions that the Bible gives of heaven would indicate that it is actually in fact a real place. Dw yeah. I would say for at least three reasons that heaven is a real place. The Lord Jesus Christ spoke about heaven as a real place. In Matthew 510 to twelve, the Lord Jesus Christ said, Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’s sake for theirs is the Kingdom of heaven. Blessed are Ye when men shall revalue and persecute you and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely for my sake, rejoice and be exceeding glad for great as your reward in heaven, for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. So that’d be the first reason because Christ spoke about heaven as a real place. The second reason I would give is that the Bible talks about it as a place where God dwells in Matthew 534 says, But I’m saying to you swear not at all, neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne. In the same chapter, verse 43 through 45, it says, and you have heard that it has been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor and hate thy enemy. But I’m saying, do you love your enemies? Bless them that curse you do good to them that hate you and pray for them, which despite the use you and persecute you, that you may be the children of your Father, which is in heaven, for he maketh his son to rise on the evil and on the good and send it rain on the just and on the unjust. I would also lean on Matthew six, nine and Luke eleven two as well, which I’ll talk about God dwelling in heaven. And then the third reason I would give as to why heaven is a real place is that it’s a place from which Lucifer fell. And Isaiah 1412 says Howard, They’ll fallen from heaven, or Lucifer Son of the morning. Yeah, definitely. I will just put in my two sentences. Heaven is as real as God is, because if heaven is not real and the Bible described it as being God’s throne, then God cannot be real if heaven is not real. So definitely I would agree with you.

How does the Bible describe heaven, or can we even describe heaven in our own words? Yeah. There’s several places in the Bible that give rough little glances here and there of heaven, but nothing, not a whole lot of detail talks about an Ezekiel about the throne of God and there being a rainbow and so forth. Then when Paul talks about it in two Corinthians, chapter twelve, he says that it’s not lawful for a man to speak of those things. So he says that essentially God forbad him from actually describing the things that he saw. So we don’t have a whole lot of description of heaven as it presently is. But we do know that there are Holy Angels there. Psalm 60, 817, Matthew 25 31, Mark 838, Luke 926, One Peter 112, Revelation 1410. So there are Holy Angels there. And the Bible paints the picture that there are thousands and thousands and thousands of Angels. So there’s billions of Angels in heaven. And then it also paints the picture that the redeemed of the Lord dwell there. So Paul says at one point that if we’re absent from the body, we’re present with the Lord. And so since he dwells in heaven, that’s where we would be if we died. So the redeemed of the Lord that have perished that have died in this life there in heaven. We know that worship is ongoing there because Revelation, chapter four and five both take place before the Tribulation. So John breaks down the Book of Revelation into three parts. He says, Write the things which thou hast seen, the things which are and the things which shall be here after. So John was currently seeing a vision of the Lord there in Revelation chapter one, verses one through 18, where he’s interacting with the Lord Jesus Christ and so forth. He’s walking amongst the candlesticks. Then he gives John some letters to send to the seven churches which are in Asia. Those are the things which are. And then he says, the things which shall be here after. And that’s Revelation, chapter four through the end of the book, and the tribulation doesn’t actually start until Revelation chapter six. So chapter four and five, we could assume that what’s taking place in those chapters is what’s presently ongoing in heaven. And we see praise and worship and so forth of God in those chapters. So there are billions worshiping God in heaven presently the Angels, the redeemed of the Lord. And then we also know that that’s again where God seated on his throne, Matthew 23 22 says, and he that shall swear by heaven, swears by the throne of God and by him to sit as they’re on. So presently God is in heaven.

So we don’t know exactly what heaven looks like right now as such. But we know some of the things that are taking place there and some of the people that are there and so forth. Right. And this is where I probably make a distinction between heaven and the New Jerusalem because you talk about second Corinthians, twelve verses two and four, where Paul was caught up in the third heaven, and he heard unspeakable words. And the way I will look at that is that a lot of folks believe that when John is talking about certain things, even in Revelation and the two witnesses and the Bible talk about the whole world is going to see them at the same time. Think about it. If we go back just 50 years ago, that was practically impossible in our world. But today no one will question that the whole world can see an event occurring live all of us at the same time, because today, because of the Internet and because of technology, we all have that stuff. But John didn’t have those words to describe the Internet and to describe the things that he was seeing. And I think that to some degree that was Paul was saying in second Corinthians, Paul literally did not have the words to describe heaven as he was seeing it. And I believe it’s because a human language probably just can’t describe the throne of God. Sure. So I look at it that way. But also, I think the Bible gave a little bit more vivid description of the New Jerusalem when the Bible talk about how big is going to be, the dimension is probably 1500 miles long, wide and high. The Bible talk about, of course, the streets of goal. The twelve gates also represent the twelve drivers Israel talked about. They’re going to be streets of gold, and they’re going to be so pure, they’re going to be like transparent glass. All this that is found in Revelation 21. I would agree to you. Yes. Heaven in and of itself, the tornado of God. The Bible never gave us a deep in depth description of it. And I believe if you go from second Corinthians, it’s probably because there’s just not words to describe it. But we do get a little bit more in depth definition description of the New Jerusalem, but explained thoroughly in Revelation 21, something about the New Jerusalem, though, if we continue reading in Revelation 22, verse one says, and he showed me a pure river of water of life. Clarence Crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. And the thing I want to point out is verse two in the midst of the street of it. And on either side of the river was there the tree of life. This is the same tree of life that was in the garden. Is it not? So then, is this like a full coming? What do they call it when you come full circle? Like the way it began is the way it ends as well. And that’s literally where what I’m trying to say is this purely physical? I mean, purely spiritual, or is there physical elements to it as well? Oh, no. The New Jerusalem is a physical place. Yeah. I mean, you’re hitting on something that’s very crucial, but maybe slightly off the topic exactly what we’re discussing. But when you see in Genesis, God created the heaven and the Earth. And then at the end of Revelation, he creates the new heaven and the new Earth. In Genesis, the opening chapters of Genesis, man has fallen, or he falls. And in Revelation, man is restored. There’s all these parallels between the beginning chapters of Genesis and the ending chapters of Revelation, like there’s dozens of them. Got it.

How would life in heaven be different compared to life on Earth? Well, when we say heaven at this point, we’re just going to use heaven in the New Jerusalem interchangeably. At this point, I’m assuming so in the new Heaven, there’s not going to be any sickness. There won’t be any disease or death. One Corinthians chapter 15, verse 26, says the last enemy that shall be destroyed as death. And then in Revelation chapter 21, it says there should be no more curse. And that includes all the things that came along with the curse, like the thorns and the thistles. Hopefully mosquitoes will be gone. There won’t be more anymore as mosquitoes. That’s the only thing you want to escape. Yeah, exactly. I bet there’s lots of mosquitoes and they’re huge. Oh, wow. Oh, man. Yeah. That’s like the provincial bird. And I was at the Lake one day and I made hot dogs. And then all these mosquitoes attacked my hot dog, and I’m thinking this thing doesn’t have any blood anymore. What are you doing, anyway? Yeah. So there should be no more curse, and God shall wipe away all their tears from their eyes, and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow nor crying. Neither shall there be any more pain. For the former things are passed away for now. We see through a glass. I think I mixed up my Scripture versus there. But anyway, so all the former things have passed away, and that includes sickness, death, et cetera. So that’s one way that the new heaven and the new Earth will be different from the present Earth, and some of the other ways that it will be different is the Bible describes this as fellow heirs or joint heirs with Christ. So I don’t know exactly what that means. But it does say in another place that we will reign with him in Revelation 22 five. So there’s going to be something for us to reign over. The Bible talks about the Kings of the Earth bringing their sacrifices and their I’m sorry, not sacrifices, actually. Let me just go to the passage here. It says in Revelation 21 24, in the nations of them which are saved, she’ll walk into the light of it. And it’s talking about the in light of the new Jerusalem, which that light is God and the Lamb. And then it says the second half of the verse and the Kings of the Earth to bring their glory and honor into it into the new Jerusalem. So it seems to me that there are some vague indicators that maybe there’s going to be something made in the new Earth and like a new race of people or something. I don’t know. What was that first DW the Kings that will bring their glory into it. What was that first? Yeah. Revelation 21 24 says, and the Kings of the Earth do bring their glory and honor into it. And it’s speaking of the New Jerusalem there. Got it. It mentions those same Kings of the Earth, I think in chapter 22 as well. And I’ve looked at a couple of commentators on this, and people have different views and so forth. But it seems like it’s possible that we’re going to reign. And what we’re going to reign over is some additional creation, some people that are made after the new heaven and the new Earth. So interesting. Yeah. Definitely interesting. We’ll also worship God. And I mentioned there in Revelation four and five there where it says the four and 20 elders will cast their crowns at the feet of the Lord Jesus Christ. And it mentions in numerous ways throughout the Book of Revelation that there’s worship and adoration of the Lord taking place. So that’s one thing that’s going to be different, even though we’re able to worship him now, then we’ll be able to worship him perfectly, because sin and so forth won’t be there anymore. We won’t be hindered by those things. So we’ll be able to perfectly worship God. We’ll be able to commune with God face to face. The Bible gives us that comfort. We’ll reign with God. Like I said, we’ll drink the water of life freely there from the river and the fountain we’ll eat from the fruit of the tree of life.

Some interesting things, though, that we won’t do that will be different in heaven and on Earth is we won’t marry and we won’t have children. And Matthew, Mark and Luke, the Bible tells us that the Saints in the Resurrection Christ says that we’ll be like the Angels. We won’t actually be Angels, but we’ll be like the Angels, and we will neither be married nor given in marriage. And one of the purposes of marriage, obviously, is to have children. So we won’t marry and we won’t have children. We won’t grieve, we won’t cry, we won’t have pain, we won’t die. We won’t sin anymore. In Revelation 21 27, it says nothing that defile us will ever enter into the New Jerusalem. So that’s appraised. I won’t have to struggle with sin anymore. I’m looking forward to that even more than no mosquitoes Amen. But there’s one thing that really some people would say that we won’t be able to pray in heaven, but I think that we will because Jesus Christ makes intercession for us and the Holy Spirit makes intercession for us. So those are two members of the Godhead, and they’re praying. I think that there will still be prayer offered. It talks about the prayers of the Saints there in Revelation and so forth. But one thing that we definitely will not be able to do in heaven. And this is really convicting for me is we won’t be able to evangelize. The opportunity to evangelize will be over. Jesus says in John chapter nine, verse four, I must work the works of Him that sent me while it is day, the night cometh when no man can work. Isn’t that sobering? Yes, because think about it. A lot of folks. Well, let me put it this way. I wrote an article called Five Reasons Why You’re Not Sole Winning. And one of the points of that article was that it’s because they don’t have unsafe relatives. And I think a lot of folks may not have unsafe relatives and their wife and their children and their grandchildren are saved, so they don’t sit in need so much to evangelize. But it’s so boring to think about that. The fact that you won’t have a chance to actually show someone they need for the Savior in heaven. And one of the reasons is because the faith would have become sight. At this point, you would no longer be by faith by sight, but it’s sobering as I think about it. I know there’s this guy that wrote a book, one thing he can’t do in heaven. And that’s one thing he was talking about was evangelism. But the suburban to think about it, of all the good things of heaven. Once we get there, we won’t have a chance to bring anyone else with us. I think I’ve told you this story before. I used to go out dornocking with a fellow. He’s in heaven now. But his name was Gary he was in his 80s when I met him, and he would come out on visitation almost every week. Pretty faithful, I would say, one of the most faithful people that would come out, and he had gotten prostate cancer. And then later that cancer had moved into his hip joints. And he would come out with a cane on visitation. And I sat down with him one time and I said, Gary, I said, I’m not trying to discourage you from coming out. I want you to come out. Please don’t stop coming out. But I’m just curious, why do you keep coming? I mean, he had children in the Ministry. He had grandchildren in the Ministry. He even had a great grandchild that was preparing to go into the Ministry, and he had gotten saved as a postal worker and then just serve the Lord faithfully. And he said to me, he quoted a verse out of Proverbs chapter 24 talks about the sluggered not plowing by reason of the cold, but in time of harvest, he’ll beg, and I’m paraphrasing that a bit. But he said, Well, DW, the reason that I continue coming is because I want to make sure that I have something to lay at the feet of the Lord Jesus Christ that stuck with me. And I’ve often thought about that when I’ve been tempted to just sort of throw in the towel. That conversation with Gary just has been an encouragement to me to keep me going and keep me wanting to go. I’ve studied out Romans chapter 14 in one Corinthians chapter three. And every time I studied those things out the judgment seat of Christ and so forth, I think of Gary.

Yeah, that’s another reason why it’s so refreshing to know that the Lord will wipe away all tears because for me looking at loved ones who may or may not be saved or friends or whatever the case may be, we’re going to need that tier wipe away because those tiers wipe away because it’s going to be a sobering time to see there’s a song that come into my mind. I remember, I dream I search heaven for you, I search vainly to heaven for you. And of course, the song is not necessarily doctrinally correct. The songwriters are saying they had a dream and they were looking for you in heaven, and it’s sobering when you think about it, because are you going to go to heaven looking around for your loved ones, but they’re not going to be dead. It’s great that God definitely wipe away the tears from your eyes because I can think of loved ones who have gone on like uncles and aunts and stuff like that, which I don’t know if they were safe, and even brothers and sisters, all of them are still alive. Praise the Lord, but I said, Praise the Lord because they still have an opportunity to be saved. But as I think about it, I think one of the questions we ask in episode 64. Can Christian truly enjoy heaven knowing that they love one in hell? And to me, it’s just a sovereign taught to think about it. But I’m glad that in Heaven God know our grief and know our sorrows and can wipe away those tears and no more sin and all the stuff you mentioned. But it’s so brilliant to think that we can’t Evangelize, and not only we can Evangelize, but at that point, no one is able to get saved anywhere. Even if we were able to Evangelize, they won’t be able to upset him. Because at that point, as I mentioned earlier, it will be by sight and not by faith. And the Bible says by greater, he saved true fate. So definitely it’s a sovereign target.

You’re listening to the Removing Barriers podcast. We are sitting down with DW, our usual suspect, and we are discussing Heaven and the Holy God. We’ll be right back.

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Okay, so we talked about what heaven is like or at least how the Bible describes heaven. I wonder, what will we be doing in heaven? I know DW mentioned how in Revelation the Kings will bring their glory with them into heaven. I’m sure there’s room for debate and talk about that, but like he said, it implies some type of hierarchy for lack of a better word governing of things, we will be reigning. As DW said, we will be praising God. That’s clear in Scripture as well. One thing I found interesting is that in Revelation Six and I think it’s verse ten, those that have been slain for the testimony that they have in Christ are asking God how long until you avenge our blood. So it’s interesting that in heaven not all of our questions will be answered. A lot of things will come clear, a lot of questions will be answered. And yet God is so inexhaustible that there are still questions that I suppose people think that because we get to heaven, all of our questions will be answered and there’s nothing to discover. And it’s just going to be this. But I think the Bible makes it clear that even up there, even in heaven, that there’s room for discovery. Revelation Six seems to imply that there’s room for discovery. So there’s room for discovery. There’s room for Dominion or training or hierarchy or that sort of thing. Many of the things that are familiar to us here on Earth will most likely continue in heaven.

But what else will we be doing in heaven? Well, I’m going to let DW come in on some of this, but I want to dispel a common myth or common depiction, even by Hollywood and cartoons and stuff like that. They always depict someone going to heaven and they’re sitting on a cloud playing a hop or stuff like that or sleeping. Yeah, we won’t be doing that in heaven. I don’t see that in the Bible anywhere that we will be sleeping on clouds or sitting in a cow playing the hop. But if you look at Revelation 22 three, again talking about in Jerusalem, he said that we will be serving the Lord mentioned this, but the torment of God and the lamb shall be in it, and his servant shall serve him. You talk about Revelation 22 five, they say we shall reign with him forever. Dw mention that as well. Revelation 22 three, they referred to the servants who are serving God. It appears somehow that we will reign with him as well. So definitely we’ll be doing something in heaven. We’ll be working in heaven. A lot of folks believe, of course, at that point because they won’t be sinned. Work wouldn’t be a burden like it is on Earth at this point. So I believe we’ll be doing some sort of work in heaven. But of course, we’re not going to be sitting in clouds playing hop or Manning the gate of heaven. Like if the people in cartoons, that’s not what we’re doing in heaven, but definitely, I believe we’ll have work. Revelation 22 five and there shall be no night in the need of candle, neither light nor the sun for the Lord giveth light, and they shall reign forever and ever with him. So definitely will we have some sort of time, some sort of work which is not burdensome because work on Earth is burdensome because of sin and sin won’t be there.

Yeah. As you’re saying this, you’re making me think of Ezekiel chapter 44, where you have this dichotomy in the priesthood pictured. There were some priests that when the people went off and started worshipping idols and so forth, they sort of went along with the people in that. And then there are the sons of Zadok that didn’t go along with the people, and they were faithful to the Lord. And he is talking about how the ones that went with the people, their charge in the millennial rain. And I know that’s not heaven exactly. But they’re charging the millennial rain is that they will continue serving the people. But the Levites, the sons of Zadok that kept the charge of the sanctuary that did not go astray from the Lord. He says that they shall come near and Minister unto me, and they shall stand before me. And he says they shall offer or they shall enter into my sanctuary. They shall come near to my table. They will Minister unto me, he says, they will keep my charge. And he says that it will come to pass. They’ll be closed with linen garments. No wool should come upon them while they Minister in the gates of the intercourse. And the reason no wool, he explained, is because it causes sweat. He says they shall have linen bonnets upon their heads, and they shall have linen breeches upon their loins. And they shall not gird themselves with anything that causes sweat. And he continues to say, They’ll Minister unto me and so forth. So there’s this nearness that’s pictured in the new heaven. Yeah, there’ll be work, but nothing like you said that causes sweat. It will be a pleasure to serve God and to come near into His presence. That makes a lot of sense. A lot of people tend to think that work is a result of the curse, but work existed before the curse or after the fall. I mean, after the fall is when the Lord mentioned anything about sweat by the sweat of your brow. Will the Earth give forth its root? Yeah, I don’t work in the garden before then, and it become burdensome after the became burdensome. So definitely another myth. What we do in heaven, playing the hop in the crowd.

Another myth is that and again, this is something that Hollywood depicts a lot, that someone has gained their wings like I had a friend coworker whose husband passed away after 25 years of marriage. And as I was reading his what’s the word? Eulogy. They were saying that he gained his wings on such and such a date. And sometimes we imply that people will become Angels after they die. Praise the Lord. That my coworker husband, according to what I read, said that he knew Jesus as a savior. But it begs the question, do we become Angels in heaven? I know DW already answered that and said no, but dive a little bit deeper and dispel that myth a little bit more. Why is it that we don’t become Angels in heaven? Well, on Earth, we were created a little lower than the Angels, the Bible says, but it also says that the Angels are ministering spirits. It talks about them being on fire and so forth. But the Bible never pictures the Saints, the redeemed in heaven in such a way. So yes, there will be some work potentially that won’t cause sweat. But it does say that will rain and never says that Angels shall rain. And in fact, in the Bible, it said Christ talking to his disciples said that they would judge Angels. So there’s a constant distinguishment made between the Saints and the Angels. So I would have to say, no, we don’t become Angels first. Peter 112 also makes that distinction between us and the Angels. Here, of course, is talking about the things of God and Scripture and all that sort of thing, but on to whom it was revealed that not unto themselves, but unto us. Did they Minister these things which are now reported unto you by them which have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven? And then this is the part I want to bring attention to which things the Angels desire to look into. The Angels have never experienced the Salvation of God. They’ve never experienced what we’ve experienced. And that is another sharp distinction between them and us. So yeah, I would say that we don’t become Angels. We’re already so fundamentally different from them. Dw mentioned that we’re made a little lower than the Angels and things of that sort, but that verse also kind of irons that out.

Yeah. As you talk about that, there’s this hymn that came to my mind that I’m going to read some of the text here. I just remember it as DW was talking the first time they said they’re singing up in heaven, such as we have never known where the Angels sing the praises of the Lamb upon the throne. Their sweethearts are ever toonfold, and their voice is always clear or that we might be more like them while we serve the Master here. And the chorus says, Holy Holy is what the Angels saying. And I expect to help them make the courts of heaven ring. But when I sing redemption story, they will fold their wings. But Angels never felt the joy that our Salvation brings. Yeah. Amen definitely. I think that we have to dispel that because Angels, they cannot be saved, they cannot be redeemed, they cannot feel the joy that our Salvation should bring. And of course, in Sam day the Bible talk about, of course, mentioned there remain a bit more than the Angels. But one of the reasons I think that we are definitely not going to be Angels when we get to heaven is because Angels just like us are created beings. But we talk about in sequel 20 813 in the day that Daw was created. So it’s showing that Angels were created were created beings. And you can look at Job 38, verse four and seven, which gives us an idea when in creation they were created by the sons of God, shouted for joy when God laid the foundation of the Earth. So some period injures were created. The Bible didn’t tell us exactly when, but we can have a semi good idea when a time frame when they were created. But they are created beings. So it’s not like the Lord made humans. And every time a human die go to heaven, then they go to another Angels. We’re not going to gain wings. We can praise the Lord, that we’re going to be like Him when we see Him before we know we shall be like Him. But we’re not going to become Angels. And quite honestly, I prefer not to become Angels because I like the joy to know that I was redeemed by the precious blood of Christ. Angels were never redeemed by the precious blood of Christ. And even the fallen Angels cannot be redeemed by the precious blood of Christ because Christ did not die for them. But he died for me. And that to me is way better than to become an angel. Just my opinion.

Well, one thing I thought of as we were saying, all this is, the Angels are never depicted as being a part of the Bride of Christ. Yeah, that’s true. What a better position to be in than being an angel being a part of the Bride of Christ. We won’t become Angels, but we won’t be like we are now, right? Like our bodies will be different, right? I don’t want to say that will become like the Angels in the sense that they have wings and they’re described the way they are. But our bodies will be an upgrade. Won’t we be able to think of a place? It will be at least 6ft tall. Well, keep on praying, brother, but yeah, definitely talk about glorified bodies when we see him. I’m blessing the birth. We shall be like him. You’ll be like him for me. Help me over the verse. Yeah. John. Three, one and two. Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed upon us that we should be called the sons of God. Therefore, the world knows it’s not because it knew him not beloved. Now are we the sons of God? And it does not yet appear where we shall be. But we know that when he shall appear, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. Yeah, that’s definitely. So that’s the first I’m trying to quote, but I was pushing so definitely we have glorified bodies. We’ll be like him and praise the Lord for Salvation. It shows that the Lord value us so much that he would die for us. And again, we talk about even the demons believe and tremble. And I remember when I was a teenager, this guy came to my country and he was from another Caribbean country came over and he was preaching title message. If demons could, they would. And his premise here was that if demons could repent and obtain Salvation and obtain heaven, they would. But they can’t. They talk about the birth of the Bible say that the Divas believe and tremble, and I think about it. Of course, I’ve never dug into that script just to see if what he was trying to draw out is biblically sound or whatever the case may be, what a demon actually repent if he could. And I know the Bible did not say that in exact terms, but it’s amazing if you just think about it that they can’t repent. They can’t confess their sins and be safe, but we can. There’s no way for them to regain their first estate.

Exactly. But we can be restored just to Jesus Christ, and we can opt in heaven and be like Him through the blood of Jesus Christ. So that’s definitely a position that, hey, if anybody being Christie is a new creature, all things are pathway. Behold, all things become new. But he had made him to be sinned for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him. Our position in Christ is an amazing position, Amen. And I think it’s a position that is quite honestly, maybe better than the Angels. But I could be wrong, but it’s an amazing position. When you think about our position in Christ, I do have to slightly correct something I said earlier. I said, Jesus said that the disciples of judge Angels, but it was actually Paul said that to the Church of Corinth. Okay, great. Yeah. I mean, just the idea that Salvation doesn’t bring us to zero. I mean, if Salvation just brought us to zero, we would have to continue trying to be good to maintain zero. But God, in the death of his son, the Lord Jesus Christ paid infinitely more that we can never exhaust. Salvation for us is just an absolute amazing thing. I remember there was a preacher that came to preach at our Church back in Virginia one time and he said to the youth he was preaching to some teenagers, and he said to those teenagers that Salvation is not a normal thing. We will never even smell like smoke. It’s just an amazing thing. We’ll never even feel the flames of hell Amen. It reminds me of the two Hebrew boys and the flame of fire they came out. They didn’t even smell like smoke.

All right, let’s change gear a little bit because I think this question is going to be very important to Americans more so than people from the Caribbean. But will animals and pets be in heaven? No, I don’t think so. I don’t see that in scripture anywhere. It’s a nice thought. I mean, they’re going to be beasts in heaven, but I don’t see anywhere where it talks about animals going from Earth to heaven. So unfortunately, no. Yeah. Sorry, Bruno might not be the Fido in heaven.

Will we recognize friends and loved ones that we knew on Earth for a long time? I have said absolutely. I think that’s true. And I would have quoted one Corinthians 1312 where it says for now we see through a glass darkly, but then face to face. Now I know in part. But then shall I know, even as I am known or. Yeah, I misquoted that. But then shall I know, even as also I am known? Sorry, a little bit of a tongue twister there, but I would have quoted that verse. But then I looked at that recently with a friend. And I don’t think that’s actually talking about how we’re known in heaven as such so I started thinking about that, and I wasn’t quite sure. But then I started looking at things like Matthew 17, where Moses and Elijah appear on the Mount with Christ, and both of them are recognized even by the disciples. Right. And then it says in Matthew 811, and I’m saying to you that many shall come from the east and west, and she’ll sit down with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the Kingdom of heaven. So that’s future tense and those of us who come from the east and west and so forth and sit down with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, clearly, we’re going to recognize them as still those people otherwise naming them there would be completely pointless. And I know that this is in heaven as such. But in the millennial Kingdom, they’re going to be people that are raining over different parts of the Earth. And you can see that in Ezekiel and Jesus is going to actually rule from the temple in Jerusalem. But it says that David shall be the Prince in Jerusalem. So even though Christ is ruling the whole Earth from the millennial temple, David is actually going to be sitting on the throne in Jerusalem, in the palace in Jerusalem, ruling Jerusalem. So even he’s going to be known during that time. And obviously, then it wouldn’t make any sense for him to not be known after that. So I think it’s fascinating. I think the Bible gives the idea that we’ll be known by loved ones and even by people that we have never met before, potentially because the disciples, as far as we know, never met Moses in Malaysia. Yeah. How would they even know what those men looked like? So it must be known in a different the recognition must be a different level of recognition, right? Yeah, definitely. I would agree with you that will definitely know the loved ones and friends that we don’t.

I wonder if we were able to give anyone nicknames because I definitely have nicknames for you already. Dw I don’t think so. I just want them to ask me what the name is going to be. I don’t think I’m not going to. Well, I won’t tell you that, but yeah, that’s good. I definitely believe we’re going to be able to recognize. But if I did say we’re going to have a new name, yeah, I was going to say we will be given new names, but I don’t think the Lord is going to let you give me a new name, though. I don’t think that’s going to happen, but I hope I can give you a nickname. At least that I’m telling you, if I get to Heaven and you walk up to me with a stone and you’re writing on it as you’re handing it to me, I might not take it. I don’t know. You probably wouldn’t have a choice there. That probably might be mandated. We won’t go there, though. All right.

When does someone actually go to heaven? I think the Bible gives two instances when someone goes to heaven other than, well, maybe three. I guess Paul went to heaven. He got caught up to the third heaven. John in Revelation chapter four, the spirits had come up hither, and so he got caught up to heaven. Elijah got raptured up in heaven. So anyway, I’ll stop sort of beating around the Bush here. I think the two main times that the Bible gives that people go to heaven is the moment that they die. One Corinthians chapter five, six through eight, says, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord. In verse eight, it says, we are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. So since he’s in heaven, when we’re absent from the body and we’re present with him, we’re in heaven, then the other one I would give is the Rapture. We’ll be caught up together in the air to meet the Lord in the air. And then it says, and so shall we ever be with the Lord. And that is just before the tribulation, potentially up to two years. I won’t get into why that might be two years. But there could be a two year period in between when the Rapture actually occurs and the tribulation starts. But anyway, so that all takes place before the tribulation the Rapture does. So we’ll be in heaven with him for somewhere between seven and nine years before we come back. He touches down on the Mount of Olives. The whole geography of Israel has changed. Millennial, rain happens. So the two times or the two places, I guess, two instances where someone goes to heaven and then how they get there is the moment that they die or the Rapture. Yeah, definitely. I will say, of course, when they take the last breath when the Rapture happened as well.

I want to run something by you DW, and see what you think and all the J you can try me if you want to. So I was talking to a friend of mine and this person do not believe that we go to heaven right away. And of course they use encouragement. Five eight. And they were saying that, of course, we are misinterpreting that scripture. You see, of course we are confident, I say, and willing rather to be upset from the body and to be present with the Lord. And the question the person challenged me with was, are we absent from the Lord right now? And of course, in my response, because I think he was taking the script to grossly out of context. My question for him back was, are we absent from the body? Because clearly, if the Bible is saying we’ll be absent from the body, we’re present with the Lord. Yes, we can claim. And we can say that we are present with the Lord now. But also we can’t say that we are absent from the body because we’re still alive. So clearly the present with the Lord dear means something different than when you say we are in the presence of the Lord. So how would you combat that? Dw first, I would sort of sympathize with the person a little bit from the standpoint that Elijah did say, like when he went to Ahab, he said that he was standing before the Lord, and you see various prophets and so forth in the Old Testament, and you even see Jesus saying that he’s in the bosom of the Father while he’s on Earth and so forth. So there is the understanding scripturally. It even says that we are blessed in heavenly places. It says, I’m sorry, I’m misquoting that we are seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus in Ephesians, chapter one, so already in a manner speaking in a spiritual sense, we are already in Christ, and he’s in heaven, and so we’re in Him. So technically, you could almost say that our Spirit is already in heaven with the Lord. But in one Corinthians, chapter five, verse six, and she’s going to say, Bring that up at the end of verse number eight there in verse six, it says, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord. Very clear. So what Paul is talking about is a new body. In one Corinthians chapter five, he talks again about the same kind of thing in one Corinthians, chapter 15, he’s talking about a distinguishment from a physical standpoint. So like I said, spiritually speaking, I’m already seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, but physically, I’m not in heaven. And I know that we’re talking about a new body and that new body is not going to be a physical body. It’s going to be a spiritual body, but at the same time, it’s going to be a new body, and it will have some sort of physical characteristics that I would lean on versus, like Luke chapter 16, where it talks about the rich man and Lazarus and Abraham talking to Him and so forth. So they still have speech, they still have sights, they still have senses and so forth. So that’s what Paul is talking about in one Corinthians chapter five, he’s talking about physically being in this body. I’m absent from the Lord in verse six. And then when I’m absent from this physical body, then in my new body, I’m going to be present with the Lord in heaven.

Yeah. So, Jay, tell me, why wouldn’t God just allow everyone in heaven real quick? Before I answer that question, I think there’s one more thing that we need to expound on. Go ahead. Because there’s a market in the world today for people who sell their stories of having died and gone to heaven and come back and all that sort of thing. I think DW’s explanation really knocks all of that out of the park. These people prey on people because in our heart of hearts we desire to be. I hate to use that God shaped whole analogy, but we desire a connection with the eternal. We desire to know what’s beyond death. And so people come up with these stories of having been dead for quite some time and then come back. I think it’s a fascination rather than trying to fill a God shape hole, I think it’s just a fascination of the fascination of the unknown. It’s like when something happened, that’s mysterious people like, oh, what happened? I think it’s more of that. Itching ears kind of thing, more than sound doctrine. But some people would make argument or allowance for it because there are examples in Scripture of people having done that. Yeah, Lazarus, but Lazarus didn’t come back and talk about at least the Bible didn’t mention anything like that or people being caught up in heaven and all that sort of thing. I just wanted to point that out because someone might be listening to this podcast thinking that stuff is real because they may find some trace of it in Scripture, but just wanted to point out that it’s not. Yeah, with stuff like that. Like, if I’m talking with somebody and they start bringing up out of body experience or something to that effect. Honestly, I don’t generally debate or discuss those things at length because I don’t find it, like, super helpful, just like they can’t argue with my testimony. I will sometimes say to people that when I got saved, it was almost like the Lord Jesus Christ was in the room with me. Now I didn’t see a vision in my soup or like, a light didn’t shine down from my ceiling or anything like that. So I don’t mean it in that way, but in a manner of speaking, yeah, he was in the room with me because he’s on the present and so forth. But I’ve had people stopping, like, want to discuss that at length, like he was in the room with you and so forth. So I have to be careful about my wording. But what I mean here, though, is they can’t really debate me on my testimony. I’m the one that experienced it and so forth. And I’m not saying that their experience is valid or not valid, but they think it’s valid, at least honestly, to be honest with you, whether out of body experiences or like, are there anywhere a person did actually go to heaven and come back? Honestly, I don’t know. I’m not sure if the body or if the Bible really the Bible does give plenty of experiences where someone went to heaven and Paul there. And like we mentioned, John and Elijah is going to come back. Some people think he’s one of the two witnesses there in Jerusalem and so forth. So I just don’t typically have a long discussion with somebody if they tell me that I might even listen to their story and say, Well, that’s really interesting and so forth. And I don’t try to tell them that their belief is right or wrong, because usually it doesn’t help anybody. Yeah. I need to listen for anything that’s unscriptual, because if you don’t just say you go to heaven and you start talking about unscriptual stuff or you say you saw Mary at the gate or something or St. Paul at the gate or something like that, then those things are not scriptural. And if it’s true, then it will be scriptural. So anomalies and stuff like that. And like, okay, well, if they’re talking about a lot of unscriptular stuff, it might be experienced. But that doesn’t mean it’s not wacko.

Yeah. And I’ve heard people describe out of body experiences where they’ve supposedly wandered into the next room and seen something in the next room that they could have never seen. And then I’ve heard other people try to debunk that by saying maybe as they were being wheeled by on their hospital bed, that they happened to glance into the room and saw something and they just didn’t realize it because they were under anesthesia or something like that. There’s all these debates back and forth as to whether these things are real or not. So honestly, I don’t know. So I just don’t go into them at length. So yeah, it’s probably counterproductive to do that. And I think we should remind our listeners, too, that the devil is a master counterfeiter. He can create all kinds of scenarios that you would believe is the real deal. And you put your faith and trust in those. But just like Peter said, we have a more sure word. Even though he witnessed the Transfiguration, we have a more sure word in the same situation. We can’t rely on these so called experiences because we’ll be easily led astray by them. We have more words. Yeah. I was talking with the Muslim man one time, not a Muslim. He had been Muslim. He had lived in a closed country. And then one day he told me that he had this vision of sitting on top of a mountain, and Jesus appeared to him and told him that he was, in fact the Messiah and so forth. But he was explaining to me his Salvation testament. I was thankful during the discussion that he didn’t rely on this vision that he had or supposedly had in relation to his Salvation. But he told me that seeing that dream or whatever it was that he had caused him to go and search out the truth. And then in searching out the truth, he came to the Scriptures and the Scriptures confirmed in his heart that Jesus was, in fact the Messiah, and he was the Son of God and so forth. So he was relying on a scriptural reason not this vision that he was seeing so sort of like what MCG was saying a moment ago, if these people talk about this experience that they had, he doesn’t really try to counter that unless they start talking about things that are against Scripture or unsound doctrine and so forth. And I would say that I would agree with that idea. Yeah, definitely. So what we’re trying not to do in this podcast? I guess we’re not trying to necessarily tell people that if they had some experience, that for sure their experience was false. But we’re also not trying to authenticate their experience. Either we don’t have a biblical foothold one way or the other to say so why won’t God allow everyone in heaven, then heaven is this great as we describe it. Street of goal, at least in Jerusalem. Street of gold, so pure that is like transparent glass. God is going to be there. We’re going to have a glofified body, no more sin, sorrow, death, tears.

Why won’t God just allow everyone in heaven for precisely that reason? If it’s so wonderful, he wouldn’t want you dragging all your baggage into it. And Christ died to save us from our sin, to save us from all of the effects of the fall. He came to reverse all of that and to redeem and to reconcile all of that. And so you can’t go into heaven. Not having been redeemed. The Scriptures talk about Christ was talking about comparing it to the marriage feast and people who were trying to come in but didn’t have the right attire. It’s that same concept. You don’t belong. You are not one of the redeemed. You can’t be there. And if heaven were accessible to anyone, not only would that make it cheap, and it’s not cheap, Christ had to pay for it with his precious blood, but it would make God a liar because the Bible calls him Holy good. Just if he were to allow anyone or anything into heaven that has not been in some way redeemed, reconciled, cleaned cleansed in the way that only he can, then that would make him a liar. That would make him not true to His word. It would make him unreliable, which we know he is none of those things. He’s very much true to His word. It’s a bedrock that we can establish our faith on. And so for that reason, not just anyone can go altering into heaven. That’s a really important point to Hone in on, because I’ve witnessed to many people who are completely unbothered unconcerned about the moment they die because they are convinced in their mind that there’s a back door into heaven that Mary will let you in, even though St. Peter won’t let you through. You could go around the back door and talk to Mary, or somehow their works will somehow justify them. Or this idea that you can be good without God. You just have to be good to get into heaven, which is not true. You have to be Holy to get into heaven. And so for those reasons, God won’t allow just anyone to go to heaven. Yeah. We did discuss the topic of pergutory back in episode 64, but I turn it over to UDW. Anything to add into that.

Yeah. So I think Jay made some excellent points there in Revelation. It says that nothing that defileth shall enter therein. And in Isaiah chapter one, in verse 18, God says, Come now and let us reason together, says the Lord, though your sins be a Scarlet, they shall be as white as snow, though they’d be read like Crimson. They shall be as wool. And he’s talking there about the righteousness of the Lord and having your sin dealt with. And he talks about in Isaiah chapter 53 about how that sin is going to be dealt with by placing it on the righteous servant, which is the Lord Jesus Christ. And so just sort of summarize. What I’m saying here is if you don’t allow God to deal with your sins through His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, then you’re still defiled and being defiled. You can never enter into heaven because the Bible says that nothing that defiles shall enter therein. And the reason for that is exactly what Jay said. Because of the Holiness of God. I find the illustration in Isaiah chapter six to be one of the best illustrations just to how Holy God is. In Isaiah chapter six, it says in verse one that in the year the King of Ziah died, I saw also the Lord sitting up on a throne high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. Above it stood the Seraphims. Each one had six wings with Twain. He covered his face, and with Twain he covered his feet, and with Twain he did fly, and one cried into another and said, Holy, Holy Holy is the Lord of hosts. And in Revelation and in various other places, the Bible calls Angels Holy Angels, those that are in heaven, those that are serving God or Holy Angels, it says in Hebrews chapter one or two, I can’t remember which one that the Angels are ministers of fire. So they’re on fire. And we might ask ourselves why. And the word Seraphim here in Isaiah chapter six, literally means burning. One is what the word means. And whenever we see God’s judgment, whenever we see His Holiness, oftentimes in the Scriptures is pictured by fire. And so these Holy Angels administers a fire because they’re Holy. But at the same time, God is so much more Holy than these Holy Angels that they can’t even look on them. They have to cover their face with two of their wings. They can’t even stand in His presence. They’ve got to cover their feet with two of their wings. And so even though they are Holy Angels, God is so much more Holy that they are literally burning up in the presence of His Holiness. And I don’t know of many people that would necessarily subscribe to this view like I haven’t met anybody, and I haven’t read any commentaries on it as such. But we mentioned that verse in one John, chapter three, verse two, there earlier where it says that when we see him, we shall be like him right when he shall appear, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is the word, for there means because when he shall appear, we shall be like him for or because we shall see him as he is. And when he shows up in Revelation chapter 20, it says the heavens and the Earth fled away because he’s so Holy Malachi. And one Peter talks about the elements themselves shall burn or shall melt, and with fervent heat. And so I think those events are synonymous with Revelation. Chapter 20 God, when he shows up at the great white throne of judgment, he’s so Holy that the heavens and the Earth just can’t do anything but burn up and melt away into nothing. And I think that’s why we shall be like him, because when we see him, everything in us that is not like him will just burn up. It’ll just be gone, and it will be the final purging. The only thing left will be the things of him that are like him. So we’ll be like him, for we shall see him as he is. And it even goes on in the context there to talk about thus purifying ourselves because he is pure. Anyway, I guess what I’m trying to say is that those people that don’t have him as their savior that haven’t had him purify them to any extent. If they were to come into his presence, their entirety would just burn up because he is so Holy. And so that’s why they can’t enter in. That’s why they’ll be consigned to that awful place called Hell.

So how then can they enter in? Can a person be assured of heaven? Can a person be sure to escape that burn up that you’re talking about, or even health? And if the answer is yes, how is that possible? Well, as I was thinking through even that previous point tied in with this idea of the question that you’re asking me now, I thought of Jesus talking to his disciples and talking to the people there in the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew chapter five, he says, Accept your righteousness righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes. And Pharisees. Ye shall in no case enter into the Kingdom of heaven. So a lot of people think that through religion that they can somehow exercise themselves to become better, and even that won’t help. The Pharisees and the scribes were the most religious people on Earth. They would fast twice in a week. They would tie, they would circle the globe to make one prosthet. So they were evangelistic. They were Orthodox in their practice. They believed the scriptures. They were the most religious people on Earth. And Jesus said, Accept your righteousness exceeds the most religious people on Earth. You shall, in no case, enter into the Kingdom of heaven. So if there are any listeners out there thinking that, okay, well, maybe I can somehow make myself better or something like that. That’s not going to help either. But the question you asked, if nothing, that the Filip can ever enter in. Well, then how can we enter in? And the answer is somewhat simple and yet a bit complex. The Bible talks about the simplicity that is in Christ, and that word simplicity means a few parts. So it’s not that the gospel is complex, but I think it takes some explaining because we say to someone what’s the Deathbell and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I think that’s a little bit too simple. We haven’t really explained what those things are. So how can someone go to heaven, someone that’s currently defiled? How can they receive that forgiveness? How can they receive that cleansing what the Bible says in John 112, as many as received Him to them gave the power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe in His name. So the simple answer about how to go to heaven, about how to enter in be to receive the Lord Jesus Christ. What does that mean? And why would God take what Jesus did and allow me to receive that? And that be sufficient? Well, when we look at the Old Testament, when we look at the Bible as a whole, we can see that God was satisfied with what Jesus Christ did at Calvary. He even talks about it before the Lord Jesus Christ never went to Calvary. In fact, in Revelation 13 eight, it says that God, the Father and God, the Son, decided before the foundation of the world, even that Jesus would come and down the cross. So God knew that man would fall. He knew that we would become sinners. But he wanted to redeem us. So I would give three reasons why. The first reason would be that the work that Christ came, he was sent to accomplish the work. And the second reason would be that that is a work that only Christ could accomplish. And the third reason is because it’s a work that Christ actually did accomplish. So like I mentioned there before, the foundation of the world, God decided that Jesus Christ would have to come and die to pay for the sins of the whole world. In Galatians four, four to five, it says that when the fullness of time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman made under the law to redeem them. And that word redeemed. It means to buy back to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. So that was the work that Christ was sent to accomplish was to redeem those who could not redeem themselves, and that’s us that’s all sinners everywhere. And so that’s the first point. It was a work that Christ was sent to accomplish.

The second reason I gave was that it was a work that only Christ could accomplish. And what do I mean by that? Well, there are lots of details in the Old Testament over 300 Old Testament prophecies relating to Jesus Christ and so forth. And so the reason I say it’s only a work that he could accomplish. Somebody said, if you took all of the Old Testament prophecies relating to Jesus Christ, and they were quarters and you laid them on top of each other, and you painted the side of only one quarter, it would cover the entire state of Texas, 8ft deep of quarters. And for somebody to be the right one, they would have to walk over and pick up the one quarter that’s painted on the one side and then have to do it the first time. So numerically speaking, it’s entirely impossible from a mathematical standpoint for someone to fulfill all 300 plus of those Old Testament prophecies related to Jesus in Micah Five two, it says that he’d be born in Bethlehem. Now there were lots of Bethlehems in Israel at the time. But Michael Five two points out a specific Bethlehem, Bethlehem, Africa, which was the Bethlehem that was near Jerusalem. So they would have to be born in a specific town. Psalm 20, 216 says, they pierced my hands and my feet. Well, when the Psalmist wrote that crucifixion was not even a form of punishment at the time, it didn’t come to several hundred years later. And so that person would have to die in a specific way, and they would have to have their hands and their feet pierced. Isaiah 50, 214 were told that the righteous servant of the Lord, that his suffering, that his form would be marred more than any man. And when you think about what happened with the Lord Jesus Christ, the Jews, when they would beat you with a Rod, they would strike you 13 times on the back. Then they would turn you to the side. They would strike you 13 times on the right side and 13 times on the left side, that equals 39. And that’s why you see Paul saying he was beaten with rods thrice 39 to save one. And so that one stripe that was lacking was supposed to be mercy. But Jesus wasn’t beaten by an Israelite Jew. He was beaten by a Roman soldier, a professional Roman soldier that used a cat of nine tails. So every time he was struck, the end of each of those lashes would have stone or bone or steel in it. And so every time he was struck, 918, 27, 36, 45, 54. Every time he was struck, it wasn’t just one lash. It was nine, and he was completely emaciated. Sometimes those lashes would have gone into his neck, potentially his face would have ripped into his side and his buttocks and his thighs. It just totally emaciated him, ripped him to shreds and says, in Psalm 129, verse three, the flowers plowed upon my back. They made long their furrows. And if I break up a little bit here, I wrote a paper on this one time, and I was crying by the end of this paper, just the devastation that happened to the Lord Jesus Christ. These things were foretold of him hundreds of years before he came. And in the Old Testament talks about his garments being parted. That talks about the gambled for his coat. It says none of his bones were broken, and all of these things were fulfilled. To a letter, he said Jonah was his thing in the belly. Well, the type of Jesus being in the heart of the Earth, three days and three nights. And this too, was fulfilled. Jesus said that’s all the facets.

And I said, this is why only Christ could fulfill it. But there are two other facets that were necessary, at least two others. And one of them is that he’d have to be God. And the reason that he would have to be God is because he would have to pay for the sins of the whole world. And I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of a doctrine called the impeccability of Christ. I won’t go into that to the end detail. But it’s talking about the perfection of the blood of Christ. And when we think of Christ paying the price for the sin of the whole world, sometimes we sort of think of it like he just brought the balance to zero. But you can think of his righteousness almost like a 50 gallon drum of water. And you take a match and you like this match and you throw it into the 50 gallon drum of water. The match immediately goes out. And how much did it affect the 50 gallon drum of water? Basically nothing. It still has 50 gallons of water in it, and that matches like the sin of the whole world. When Jesus paid the price for the sin of the whole world, because he’s God, it did not exhaust his righteousness at all. He is still infinitely righteous, and a man can’t even pay for, like in the Psalms, it says that a man cannot pay for the soul of his neighbor. But Jesus paid for the sin of the whole world. And in order to do that, he had to be God. But at the same time he had to be man because he had to die for man. In Hebrews 29 It says that he became a man so he could taste death for every man. So the three facets was that he would have to fulfill all of the Old Testament scripture, which is numerically impossible for anybody but the Lord Jesus Christ, because some of those things that were foretold in the Old Testament now have passed and can never be again. So only one person. It’s either Jesus of Nazareth or it’s no one ever. And then he also had to be God. And he also had to be man. And so it was a work that only he could fulfill. So it was a work that he was given by the Father before the Earth was founded. Even it was a work that only he could fulfill. And the last reason is because it was a work that he did accomplish. Jesus says in John 1837, to this end was born. And for this cause, I came into the world. In John 127, John the Baptist, looking at the Lord Jesus Christ is behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. And on the cross, Jesus said, it is finished. John 1930. And so in Isaiah 53, 1100 of years before the Lord Jesus Christ walked the Earth, the Father said, I shall see the travail of his soul and shall be satisfied. And so if someone sees themselves as a sinner. The whole reason that God looked and had to see the travail of his son’s soul was because of the sin of the world, and so not just everybody else’s sin but my sin. I should have been on that cross. I should have been the one that was emaciated by that Roman soldiers lashing. I should have been the one that had my beard torn out and be spat upon. I should have been that one because I have offended a Holy and a righteous God with my sin. And so if I will see myself as a sinner, I will take his payment on my behalf. That’s what John means when he says, but as many as received him, not Church membership, not baptism, not anything else, but the Lord Jesus Christ. But as many as received him to them gave the power to become the sons of God. So if someone wants to be clean like Isaiah, chapter one was talking about, though our sins be a Scarlet, they shall be as white as snow if they want to be clean and not defiled, so that they can enter in it’s by receiving the Lord Jesus Christ.

Dw I make fun of you, but it’s always a pleasure to have you on. Well, even though you continually hurt my feelings, I come back anyway. Thank you, brother.

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