Episode 50

How many barriers can God overcome to reach His lost sheep? In this episode of the Removing Barriers podcast, we continue the “How Were Your Barriers Removed?” series and talk to Mike, whose many barriers to salvation were gloriously removed by Jesus Christ. Discover how a Catholic upbringing, morals, and a deep dive into the world and its fleeting pleasures all conspired to keep him lost in sin…but God’s mercy pursued him doggedly until he was saved by grace through faith.

After Christ saved me and to turn my heart around, I had to go back to my folk’s house. I was so excited for what Christ had done and set me free from a lot of things. I went home to my dad and I said, Dad, I just want to tell you how Jesus has saved me and he’s saved me from all these things. And I just want to get reconciled with you all. I can still see it now. We were in a split level house and we were on the stairs and he sat me down. He said, Mike, you know, this cannot be of God because it’s not of the Roman Catholic Church. Oh, Wow.

Thank you for tuning into the Removing Barriers podcast. I’m Jay and I’m MCG, and we’re attempting to remove barriers so we can all have a clear view of the cross. This is Episode 50 of the Removing Barrier podcast, and this is the tent in the series of How were your Barrier to Move? In this episode, we’ll find out how might barriers will remove when He came to a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.

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Mike, welcome to the Removing Barriers podcast. Well, thank you for giving me the opportunity. I’m glad to be here. Great. We’re glad to have you, so Let’s get right into it. Mike, what state or country were you born in? I was born in Belfort, Pennsylvania, which is just maybe about 12 miles North of State College, but I only lived there for a short while. I moved down to the Northern Virginia area, and I live mostly in Falls Church for up until about fifth grade and then in McLain up until I was married.

Oh, cool. So where do you consider yourself? A native of Pennsylvania? Northern Virginia. It’s safer just to say Northern Virginia, because not everybody knows where McLean is. Okay. Glad to finally find someone who will claim the DC area as their home or heritage. Well, I don’t know if I’ll go so far as to claim DC, though. I try to stay out of DC.

Okay. What type of family were you born into, Mike, was it a Christian family or a religious family? What was your upbringing like? Well, I was born into a very pious Roman Catholic family. I was the third of eight. My dad and my mom when they got married. She was not at first a Catholic, but she had to become a Catholic to marry him, which caused a lot of stir in their family. And so it was pretty much a very moral religious family, although I don’t ever remember opening a Bible or talking about the word of God ever before Salvation. What was your life and bringing like. So you born in the Romo Cathic family, not open in the Scriptures at all.

Describe your life a little bit more before Salvation. Did they send you to math? Were you required to do the sacraments? What was your upbringing like? Yeah, I went to Roman Catholic schools up until high school, and we were always made to go to Church on Sundays, and we weren’t supposed to do any work on Sundays. And we followed some of the regular habits of the Catholics back then, where you only had fish on Fridays. So we always had fish on Fridays and those type of things. It was a pretty loving family. As I said, we never brought up religious matters at home. In fact, the only time I ever opened a Bible, it was actually kind of secretly because I knew we had a Bible on the shelf, but no one ever seemed to open it, and it seemed like you got reprimanded if you open it. But one day I snuck it out, and I actually read a little bit of Matthew, and that’s about the only actual reading of the Bible had but went to Mass every Sunday, had aspirations because the stories that I’d hear about things, and I thought, well, maybe someday I’d want to be a priest or something like that, although I could never follow that path. And I remember being told that the only ones that really made it into heaven right away were those that were martyred for their faith. So I figured the only way I’m going to make it into heaven was if I got martyred. Oh, my life with the family and everything. We’re pretty close in grade school. Nothing spectacular, anything in high school, I was a sports enthusiast. I played football, wrestled, had a steady girlfriend throughout all of high school, which probably kept me out of trouble a lot because she was a pretty pious young Lady. And it went until I got off to College that I really departed from any semblance of faith or religious practice.

So, Mike, let me ask you this. You mentioned and jokingly how you probably would never make it into heaven unless you re martyred for your faith. And it sounds like on some level or another, you understood, even if it’s at the back of your mind, your sinfulness or how unworthy you were of heaven, which all of us are. Is that something that you think perhaps was just a result of living in a pious Catholic home, or do you think that was your conscience under the weight of whatever you might have read when you Select the Bible away? Or where did that sense of unworthiness or sinfulness or just general feeling that you didn’t make the cut in terms of God’s perfection and what God expects? Where did that sense come from? Well, when I answer that, it, of course, is in retrospect. And knowing what I know now, back then, though, of course, being in the Roman Catholic schools, we had training in religion, and what we were told was put you in the fear of God is we were taught that there was a judgment for sin. Of course, we were taught that everybody would have to go and burn in purgatory for a good amount of time before we could ever get out. And we were always being taught about how to make up indulgences and things like this. And there’s no doubt I had a sense of sins. I knew what I did wrong. I mean, my parents raised me with right morality, and if I did wrong, I was punished severely punished. My dad was not a strange that’s using the belt and probably in today’s climate, he would have been cited for exercising too much enthusiasm in training me. That’s a nice way to put it. But I got the belt many times. I was very aware when I did things, I knew I was doing things wrong, and that kind of left me with a real guilty conscience that I didn’t know what to do it.

So you described going to Mass regularly. What is Mass like? Is it the same thing that you encounter in Catholic school where they teach you all of these things like purgatory and indulgences and things like that? Or do you sit down and listen to someone read the Bible or how does that work? Well, the Mass is just the best term I can think of. It is ritualistic type of thing is you have a specific order that you stand up, sit down. You say these things, you do your Echo spiritual and things like that in Latin. When I was younger, of course, we went to the Latin Mass and all. And so a lot of it was just a mystery of learning to sit still there and try and keep out of trouble while the pastor or the priest was doing his thing. And it was that for me, it’s just a ritualistic type of thing. There was a certain awe and grandeur about the whole thing that kind of leads a person at all. I can understand that. But it wasn’t really real to me, not really real. And you said you left home and you just kind of turned away from everything you were ever taught, and you just kind of indulge in the world a little bit. These are in your College. It could you describe those years and what your life and upbringing were like during that time? Well, when I left for school, like many young man, I did not have a real direction in life. I didn’t have a strong sense of purpose, of what I should be doing. I always was kind of raised with the idea. Well, you know, maybe follow my dad’s footsteps. He was an electrical engineer. He was very well known. He ended up being enable chief scientist. You know, he was a person of note, but I really didn’t have any idea of what I really wanted to do. When I went off to College and it was Lebanon Valley College up in Angel, Pennsylvania. I went up there and I probably wasted most of my time. I wasn’t interested in it. I had taken advanced courses in high school, and when I went up there, they didn’t accept them. And so I ended up taking some of the same courses over using the same books. And I was so bored. At the end of that year, rather than go to the exams, I took a walk up in the mountains and just avoided everything and just left. I started getting into trouble. I never went to Church. When I was up there at school, I rarely gave thought about anything religious. It was more just self indulgence and drinking and other things. And that was my first year of school. And after that, I stopped going. After the first year, I just went into work.

So you mentioned that your dad was someone who wasn’t a stranger to discipline. I remember reading a book by the Late On a Rise, and he described that when a child is discipline, that that child is usually more receptive to the gospel because that child now understand, your actions have consequences. And just like when you present the gospel, you can tell the sinner that, Hey, your thing have consequences beyond just this physical life. Do you remember the first time you heard the gospel? Was it in one of these math or when you were in College? And was the reception of the gospel easier because of the disciplinarian nature of your dad? Probably his discipline made it easier to understand some of the things. But it really occurred after I’d been working for I guess it was a year or two. And I had a friend that we were buddies doing all sorts of things wrong. We work together, chase women together. We dragged together. We got into drugs together, and for a little bit he went somewhere. I don’t know what happened to him. But then because of my rebellion, I got kicked out of my house. When I had come back from school, my mother had said if I ever bought a motorcycle, she would kick me out of the house. She just couldn’t bear the thought of having someone get hurt and her having to respond to that. Well, you know what I did? The next day I went out and bought a motorcycle. And she was true to her word. And they executed me from the house, and I moved out, found a place in Roslyn. And anyways, long story short, a little bit later, this friend, same friend, Bruce. He came over and I could see and I get emotional about things, but I can see he was different. Someone was different about him. He came in there and he looked different. He Act different. And I tried to get them to join me in using some drugs. And he said, No, I don’t need that anymore. And what really struggled me is he said God’s healed me, and I had no idea what he was talking about. I knew that he had some real serious physical problems. He had had a tumor in his brain that had gotten about the size of a lemon that he had to have removed and put a plate in his head. And he was paralyzed on one side of his body. And there was a time when he couldn’t even lift the bean bag. But he came over and he told me said, God has healed me. And he said he had gone back to the doctor, and the doctor was amazed and said, Don’t know how it happened and you don’t have to take your drugs for antiepileptic fits and things like that anymore. But somehow that’s all been healed. And he said God did it. And that’s what I asked him. Well, what do you mean? How did he do it? And he told me the gospel. He told me how that Christ saved him and that he had trusted in Christ for his Salvation. And in process, he was healed. And that had a profound effect on I’m sorry I get emotional about those things. No, that’s okay, brother. When the Holy Spirit moves up on someone and we should be moved and that person that was instrumental in your Salvation, you are welcome to be emotional about it because we are talking about someone’s eternal destiny and per the law that you were saved.

Was that the first time you actually come to a full realization of your sin? Do you remember? Well, not of my sin. I can look back in retrospective how God had been pursuing me for a long time, and I’ve just been ignoring them, really. But there were times when on trips to see a girl that I was engaged to trips to see her, I stopped to pick up a passenger, that her mother gave me the cross in the switchblade by Wilkerson. And I read that. So there are other things that along the way I can pick out and say, Yeah, there’s where Lord was trying to reach me and soften my heart. But it wasn’t until my friend started leading me to the scriptures and started telling me showing me in the world where Jesus was coming back again. And I didn’t immediately trust in Christ. I was a little skeptical at first, but he started telling me about it. And I said, Well, show me that I’ve never read that. And we actually went out. One day we went to a bookstore, I believe, up in Seven Corners area. See the fine in the big tree. He helped me buy a Bible. And for the first time, I started reading some of this and started devouring the word. And as I read and follow places that he said, I could look it up. So they really were what he said. I came under heavy conviction. I knew that if I died that day, I was going straight to hell because there were just no question in my mind. And there is an element of fear that really came on in that conviction, because, you know, I read the description now about people trembling when they heard the word at all. But that’s one of the effects it had on me because I knew I wasn’t ready. All this was new to me. I didn’t know the Word at all. But he encouraged me to start reading. And it was through that process of reading the Word of God and different encounters that I can only look back and see that they were divine encounters with different people that would bring things up that I found like came to the place, watch and sleep. This is really all true. I have to do something about it. And he told me about how all you had to do is call upon the Lord, trust Him. You know, in my training, my training was that you had to work. You had to do this. You had to go to match. You had to do that. But he said, you just have to call upon the Lord and trust that He already did it for you. And there came a point in time where I decide, Well, I’ve got to trust Him. And I was going to give my whole life to Him. And I cried out onto him being on my bed as I just cried out and said, Laura, I need you to save me. And I can’t do it myself. And I can’t stop all these things myself that I know are absolutely wrong. And I can’t say I saw any lightning flashes or anything like that. But from that point on in the next couple of weeks, he just changed me. And that’s the best I can say. He changed me. That’s incredible.

I’m just listening to your story, Mike. And I’m thinking of when I was active duty in my first four years of service, I remember a fellow Sergeant, actually, she was a Sergeant. I was a Corporal at the time. And I think she was often a tizzy about how things were going so terribly in the Middle East. And why is all of this stuff happened, Pening, and why all of the suffering in the Middle East. And I just kind of looked at her perplexed because I knew she was Catholic. And at that time I didn’t understand the differences between, say, Catholics, Protestants, Jehova’s, witness. I didn’t know the difference between any of them. I just figured we all loved Jesus. We’re all good. Now, of course I understand. But at the time, I looked at Catholic people as very religious people and very knowledgeable about the Scriptures. And so I looked at her and I said, don’t you know how this came about? I was explained to her about me and how this goes way back into biblical times. And she looked at me with these big eyes and she said, No, I’ve never heard of that. And it was at that point, I realized that generally, I’m sure this is not true for every single Catholic, but generally in the Catholic faith, people are ignorant about what the Scriptures actually say. And so when your friend talks to you about how Jesus saved him and healed him and how he helps you get a Bible so that you could read these things for yourself, and your eyes are opened and you come under the weight of your sin. And it’s almost like a whole new world is opening up. I’m reliving that and remembering how the Word of God opens our eyes and brings clarity and causes us to see things that we could not see because of these various barriers that we have in our lives, whether it’s ignorance of what’s in the word or maybe feeling perhaps that were moral enough or whatever the barriers might be. So in your case, Mike, what barriers do you think we’re preventing you from being saved? Because you mentioned how you didn’t get saved right away? What do you think was holding you back? Well, there are a couple things that were clearly holding me back.

First of all, it was my sin and my seeking for my own pleasure and all of I love my sin. I enjoyed doing the things I did. I enjoyed getting high. I enjoyed being with different ladies. I mean, there’s pleasure in that, right. And so that’s one thing. It’s just my sin. It’s just like, you know, I know now sin separates and that sin has consequences and all. But at the time, Hey, I didn’t know any better. And I think the first real obstacle was really my own sin and my own selfishness and my own lust after the things of this world. And I think the other part of it was my religious upbringing, which really brought me to a place of ignorance, not knowledge. And I just think of when Jose talks about my people being destroyed for the lack of knowledge, I think that’s really was I had a knowledge, but it wasn’t the knowledge of truth, the way things really were in the spirit world, in eternity. My whole conception of what was necessary to be saved was completely different from what the Bible said. What I learned from the Bible and so those to me were the biggest hindrance is my own sin and selfishness and less. And then also the lack of knowledge from lack of training. When I was being brought up, even though it was a pious Roman Catholic home, I really didn’t learn the truth of the Bible. When you think about these things, how you didn’t know the truth of the Bible, you loved your sin, which even in my testimony, absolutely there’s pleasure and sin for a season. But at the end, we don’t see how it bites like an Adder. We don’t see how it enslaves us and separates us from God. Only the work of the Holy Spirit and His Word can really open our eyes. And I praise God. He did that in your life so many years ago. How do you think those barriers were removed in your life? You talked about how your friend helped you get a Bible and how you got into the Word. And you talked about how God put a series of people in a series of conversations in your way in your life to turn you toward Him. Are there any other ways that you feel that the barriers that you were experiencing to Salvation were removed? Well, the biggest thing was the Word of God. After he got me that Bible, I started reading it graciously, and I started finding things in there that, Hey, no, wait a minute. That’s not what I learned in Church. I remember one of the biggest things as I was reading a New Testament. I kept hearing the word Saint. And of course, in the Roman Catholic Church, you’re taught something different about what a Saint is, a safe person that put on the pedestal that is special. And yet the more I read the New Testament, Wenman keep talking about all the people there that have trusted in Christ. They’re all Saints. And that to me, just the terminology was so different that, Hey, he is talking as though he would call me a Saint just for trusting in him. Now, this, of course, was after I trusted him. But little things like that reading in the scripture where he talks about don’t call any man on Earth, Father. And here we were trained as Roman Catholic Father, you know, forgive me my sins, Father. This Father, that. And when I read the scripture about, you know, there’s only one you should call Father, is your Father in heaven? And that had a big impact on me. Just little things like that is reading it in the word that it wasn’t what I was being taught or had been taught in grade school and CCD and those type of things. And one thing that my friend, I have to say that he helped me really develop a hunger for knowing what the word said is because he was telling me about, you know, well, get this translation because it’s better or that one or whatever. And he was saying how well, so many people today now are twisting the word of God, and you really have to be careful about it. So he gave me a real desire to learn what the Word of God really said. And that gave me the strong desire to go back to school, only this time with a strong purpose to learn the word of God. And so I did go back. I have to tell you a funny story about this, though. But after Christ saved me and just turn my heart around, I had to go back to my folk’s house. I was so excited for what Christ had done and sent me free from a lot of things. I went home to my dad and I said, Dad, I just want to tell you how Jesus has saved me and he’s saved me from all these things. And I just want to get reconciled with you all. I can still see it now. We were in a split level house and we were on the stairs and he sat me down. He said, Mike, you know, this cannot be of God because it’s not of the Roman Catholic Church. Wow. I mean, I felt so deflated. I mean, here Christ has done so much for me and had saved me from all I would have been a dead or in jail, whatever for some of the things I’ve been doing. And I even went back to stores that I had shop lived from. And I went back to make as much restitution I could just because I wanted to be clean and completely. And I had ridden the scripture about with the thieves caught, let him give back certain amounts. And I went back and tried to make as much reconciliation as I could, and I was prepared to go to jail. It was funny that all the places that we don’t know what to do with you, we’ve never had anybody come back like this. The only place that made any big deal is the old Montgomery Reward that was up at Seven Corners, their security man as he grilled me. And I thought for sure I was headed for jail. But finally he said, Get out of here. I don’t want to see your face in our store again. And that was it. Oh, Wow. And so anyway, I ended up going back to school to study religion to learn about God, which, if you want to know more, I can tell you. But definitely I was rather disappointed of being an ignorant Christian of my first year. And what was supposed to be Bible school? Tell us more about that. Where did you go to study? Was a solid school or it was the same place I’d taken the first year, and they had a religion Department. And so I thought, well, great, I’ll go back there because I know I wouldn’t have any trouble getting back in there. And I took a religious course. Courses you might say I wanted to learn all there was about the word, and I took Greek. This one’s a school that Lemon Nevada College is supported by. It used to be by the what is it, U B or one of those things? And they advertise a Christian school. So not knowing any better, I thought, well, what better place to learn? But when I got there, it turned out that, you know, many of my teachers there were anything but professing Christians. And my Greek teacher had hit himself is he didn’t even believe in the resurrection. And some of my teachers wanted me to, for instance, in world religions, they wanted us to practice some of the things that some of the heathen did and me and a couple others, we just felt we couldn’t do that in good faith. And we went to the head of the Department or whatever and said, we just can’t have good faith. Do this. You know, our faith tells us the scripture says this and that. And anyways, they just made it very clear that they didn’t take religion seriously. And so that was my only year there to make a long story short on that again is you do pardon me. So you jumped out again? Well, I finished the year, but I did believe only not to go back there, but I did end up going to a Bible school. It was Charismatic Bible school in Dallas, Texas, Christ in the Nations. And I did finish there. And I had a purpose. I was there to learn the Word of God. And I was very thankful for what I learned there. Unfortunately, I didn’t know any better. There are many things that the last couple of years last 10, 15 years. I’ve had to relearn and rethink of how they interpreted things. But I was very thankful because I got a real good, solid Foundation in the scriptures, very good classes and many of the New and Old Testament disciplines. And so I was very thankful for that.

You’re listening to the Removing Barrier podcast. We are sitting down with Mike and we are finding out how were his barriers remove? We’ll be right back. You have the desire to earnestly content for the faith, which was once delivered onto the Saints. Answers and Genesis can help. They provide biblically sound books, CDs, DVDs, homeschooling materials, VBS materials, online courses, digital downloads and the Answers magazine and more. Plus tickets to the Creation Museum and Ark Encounter. Go to the Answer’s bookstore by clicking the link in the description section below. So you too can be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks the reason of the hope that is in you.

Second Corinthians 5 17 says, Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature. Old things are passed away. Behold, all things are become new after Salvation. Mike, what changes were evident in your life? You talked about how the Lord got a hold of even changed you. Could you get into those changes and tell us what the Lord did in you? Yeah, of course. Some were very gradual. Some were immediate. I know one thing that was immediate is he convicted me of my drug use and my alcohol use and my smoking. Also. Next couple of weeks, I flushed down a rather expensive stash of drugs, got rid of them, and got rid of all the cigarettes I had. Actually, I asked the Lord to help him, and I kick smoking in his cold Turkey. And by His Grace, I was only tempted on that maybe one time a couple of months later. And that was it for last 50, some years. But he had me clean up those type of things. I was just convicted. I knew they were wrong. Another one of the major things was my speech. I was a foul mouth at the point in time where this all happened. I was working in a freezer warehouse, and the language that we use with everybody in there was enough put any sailor to shame. But I knew that that was wrong. And I remember at first it was a little bit of a struggle. I had to catch myself, put my hand up in my mouth and say, I know that’s not right, Lord, you need to help me. And he did in a very short time, I have to say that I put away that. And that’s something that I have to admit that I had a good model for my father is that was just out of rebellion. But I never heard him say a wordy dirt in the whole time that I lived with him. Except one time he said little curse word as one time when I was about 10 years old, we were in the basement and he hit his thumb with a hammer and he let slip. I think the word dam or something like that and is so shocked me. And it so shocked him. And that’s the only time in my entire life I ever heard him say something. And so I knew that your speech was important. And that’s one thing that the Lord has convicted me of, the foul language and everything. Then, of course, I already mentioned the feeling I knew I had to stop that. And as the best my ability to make amends for where I knew that I could. And then I was engaged to one girl in one place or another. I broke off the bad relationships I had and tried to explain to them what Christ has done for me, and they didn’t really want to have anything to do with that. And another thing is that He gave me a hunger for wanting to meet other people that believe that way. I didn’t know that people really took God seriously, that they really acted like He was really alive in their day to day lives. That’s not the way I was raised that he was there and every day of things. And yet I wanted to meet other people that like my friend, he was talking about how he prayed to God, got answered his prayer. And I wanted to learn about that. I remember one of the things I had to do is I said, Bruce, you know, teach me how to pray. All I knew was the wrote prayers that you learn as a child in Catholicism, our Father, to Hail Mary, glory be to God in those things. But I said, you know, how do I pray? And he just said, Just talk to God like you were talking to anybody else and just tell them what’s on your heart because he hears you. And and just be honest upfront with him. He already knows everything anyways. And that’s the first time anybody just in serious conversations said, This is how you talk to God, you can really talk to him. And so those are just some examples of things that change immediately. I know one big change was nice was I think it was the Grace of God now. But I had my motorcycle stolen in a moment while I was up in my apartment. A couple guys and I got a pick up a van just came in and picked my motorcycle up part of the way. And that’s probably one of the best things that ever happened to me. As many close calls as I had with it. Did your mom let you back in after that since the Word. So I moved back in with my folks after that. And I got a different job, a longer story to go in the hell. I met my wife, Karen, but that was just the Grace of God sent me the most wonderful woman. And then after we had gotten married, we did go down to Bible school together. And so that’s just an example of some of the things that he changed in my life. Of course, the desire to learn the Word. I started memorizing the Word. One of the jobs that I took was with Engineering testing company was where you go around. You do soil testing for things like new bridges or for power plants that will be put in or for, like the Metro system down in Georgia. But I basically was traveling up and down the East Coast. And very often I took Karen with me when we were first married because they gave enough podium for that. But when I was out there and drilling, sometimes when we were doing for drilling, you’d have to be waiting long periods of time for it to core through the rock. And so I’d sit there. And I started memorizing scriptures and started memorizing the Proverbs. And I know I got up to about over seven chapter having them all memorized up then. And that just really helped me in just being able to answer some of everyday type of questions. And being able to witness to the laborers that I had and things like that. So those are examples of the changes.

Amen. So you mentioned your barriers, the changes that went through your life thinking about today’s culture and your barriers. Do you think the way your barriers will remove would be effective for someone today? Actually, I think they’re one of the most effective ways because, I mean, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word. If you don’t know the word, where are you going to get that faith your son doesn’t tell you about? How are you going to put your trust in it? But it’s from primarily through hearing the word and then studying the word that I saw most of those barriers reviews as far as effectiveness, that’s to me, that has always been the most effective that I see. That’s the way the Bible says, you know, tell people about them. Otherwise, how are they going to hear? What are some of the things you’re doing personally in the area of evangelism to help remove barriers and the lives of others kind of like the ones that you faced? It’s more opportunities. There probably is in the moment that I’m with someone that I don’t know that I’m not thinking about Lord. How can I talk with them about the Lord? How can I bring it up? How can I introduce that into the conversation? And I am never surprised at how often the person I end up talking to has had a Roman Catholic background and a very similar background that I believe that’s only you know what I consider to be divine appointments that God gives and to people that you can have a similar background with. But anyways, it’s mostly just through opportunities. When I’m with someone to introduce God in the conversation somehow, some way it does not happen, but oftentimes it does and sometimes have an opportunity to spend large amounts of times talking with someone that I never would have expected. Unscheduled type of things. Like, I can just think the one time I was just coming out from work and this is one of my second jobs, and there is just a man going along and he looked like he was talking to people, but he stopped and turned out that he was Jehovah witness. And so I started talking with him about the Lord, about some of the differences and saving Grace and all. And we ended up talking for a long time. And not that he immediately gave his life to Christ or anything, but I think he recognized that there was another side of the matter that he’s never seen. And it’s just little occasions like that, of course, also planned occasions going on on gospel blitz. So those type of things. Yeah. Mike, I’m going to go off topic a little bit here because you mentioned your lovely wife, Karen, which just happens to be in the room right now. Yes. We’re just going upstairs. She’s going upstairs. And he says, by I want to ask you who is the quiet one in the family? Because I’ve met her. And she is just sweet and quiet as it could be. Who’s the quiet one in the family? And then go ahead and tell us how you met this lovely Lady. Who’s the quiet one? Yes. You don’t need to ask me that. You know that he’s the quiet one. And that also goes back a little bit of how we got. We ended up getting married. Tell us about it. Well, I was on this job with Law, an engineering, where I went out of town. I was on a out two weeks in one week or out, 10 days in four days type of schedule. And at that point in time, I was brandnew Christian. I was starting to try and find places that had fellowship. And I met her mother, who worked at the Violent Fig Tree, which was right up in the Seven Corners area. I met her there and then met her dad. And we were actually having dinner. And I noticed her in the house. She was going to Mary Washington College at the time, and she just caught my eye. And I was actually doing a Bible study with her dad. But the next time I went out of town, boy, I was praying. And I have to admit, I don’t know whether it was the spirit of the Lord or whether it’s just a pizza dream or whatever. But I had this dream about her dad kicking me under a table because I hadn’t asked her to marry me. But I really liked her. I hadn’t talk with her much or anything like that. But I was living at home at this time. So I came home. And after, you know, seeking the Lord, I was ready for a wife. I was looking for a wife. And I told my mother I said, Mom, I think I found the girl I want to marry. And she kind of stepped back a little bit and said, Well, who is it? And I said, It’s Karen Wick coming. And she said, Have you taken her out? I said, No. Well, don’t you think you ought to take her out one time to see if you like her first? And I thought, well, Wow, that’s wisdom. So anyways, I came over and met with her dad because I was already doing Bible study with my set up. Could I take your daughter at one time? And he thought that was a little strange. But then I asked, you know, what type of thing she likes? And he said, Well, she likes to go bowling. And so I asked if I could take her out bully. And so I took out bowling. And you were asking, who’s the quiet one? Well, I took her out bowling, and I don’t think she said a word the whole night. I forget whether she beat me here? No, she was pretty good bowling and we both old. Pretty good when we were younger then. But she hardly said a word and it was very hard to get to know someone when they don’t talk. But anyways, I had a nice time with her. Then we took a walk up on Carderock along the Atomic and she hardly said a thing when we went on our walk. So that was that I went out of town again and when I was out of town I just felt she’s the one. And so the next time I came back in town, which just a couple of weeks later I went out of their house and I said, Can we take a walk? And so we started walking and we walked about two blocks or something, Indiana. And then I said, Will you marry me? She said, Yep, I’m going. I said, Wow, she hardly said a word. But I tell you what that did open her up. She started talking after that we went back to her house. We set a date just three months down the road and talk with her dad. And she told me later she said she had been praying and she knew I was going to be the one she was going to marry. I was last. No, I think my sisters had voted her in. And so anyways, we got married in February 17 th of 19 75. And I have no regrets. What did you get saved? And now, of course, eight children later and nine children later and 25 grandchildren. I think it’s tough. Yeah. Congratulations. How long ago have you been saved? You said 75 when you got marriage, it was around 73, maybe 72 70. I couldn’t tell you the exact date without actually sitting down looking at my timeline because this was of course before I was married and I was not living at home yet because when I asked Christ to save me and come into my heart and trusted that he really had, I went back at home. Yet this was 73 72 somewhere in there about 47 48 years ago. Yeah. Cool. Great.

Alright Mike, Let’s go into a little bit of a fun section here. Find out some of your favorites. What is your favorite scripture first? Well, you know, when you ask that that’s often a question people ask. And I have to say that my favorite scripture verse is changing almost every year because it seems like God opens up something new in each year. And there has just been one that I can say stuck with me for all time, although I’ve always had a favorite one is in first Peter 1 13 where it talks about where for good after loins of your mind, be so over and hope to the end for the Grace sets to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. And it continues with as obedient children not fashioning yourselves according to your former lust in your ignorance, and that I can so identify with that I needed to change my mind, have it cured up, that I can see that the Lord is coming, and that is a great blessing to me. And that here it kind of put a finger on what we were talking about earlier is causes for not being saved is not fashioning yourselves according to your former lust in your ignorance. And I was one ignorant person and I was full of lust back then. But God has called me not fashion myself after that, but to look for the Grace that’s going to be brought to me. So that’s always been a favorite of mine, many others. What about of all of the historical accounts in scripture, which one is your favorite? And bound is a story that a stick in my mind. And it’s when the snake rib I sent rib check to to give a letter that has A-A-I don’t know if you remember the occasion, but here they were trying to get Hezekiah basically to surrender to him. And they came and they told the people don’t believe all the things he said and Rashaka. That’s how it’s pronounced. He sent a letter to hesitate and hesitate took it, and he spread it out in front of the Lord. I always thought, Wow, you know, Here’s a guy that he understands God is alive and well, and he lays this thing out in front of him, and he prays. And he talks as though God’s right there with him and says, Look at this thing. This is what he’s saying. And of course, we know the end of the matter that Isaiah comes and says, Don’t worry about him. You got to take care of him. And it’s just that picture of a man whose faith was in God. And he’s laying this out just like he would with a friend and saying, Take a look at this. What can we do about that? And, of course, trusting God, he was going to do something. So that’s just one of my favorite little stories. What about the most convicting scripture passage to you? We ask about the favorite, but is there a crypto passage to you that just convict you every time you read it or see it? Well, it’s one that you’ll often hear me saying, even in the Bible study classes. It’s from James. But be doers of the word and not hear, only deceiving your own self and goes on and give that picture of a man looking into a glass forgetting what he looked like. And every time I read that I can’t help her than for it. Lord, help me to be a doer and not just to hear. I study your scriptures. I know some of the things in there so profound, and yet help me not to be just a hear and not a doer. And I say that to a lot of people that I talk to often is it don’t be to secure but a doer of the work. Which verse would you find to be the most comforting? Well, I guess that comes from Roman Catholic background in Titus, since, of course, I had a works mentality, you might say, but not by works of righteousness, what we have done. And of course, I put a lot of these things to song. But according to his mercy, he saved us by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost. And having put that song, it just as a constant reminder to me and comfort that, you know, it’s not a matter of my performance. It’s a matter what Jesus Christ has already done on the cross. He has already taken the penalty of my sin. He has suffered everything that I should have. And so now I can rejoice and be thankful for that, that he’s already done it. It’s not something I have to perform to get it. This question might be the most difficult question for you, brother, but what is your favorite him of the fate that’s not difficult. Greatest, I say I was afraid you can fully don’t do one. I thought you would have. I have plenty. But, you know, it’s surprising. One of the little problems I have is having been raised Roman Catholic and not in, like, Baptist or any of the other Protestant face. I did not learn all those great hems of old. I’ve had to learn them when I was Roman Catholic. I didn’t sing. I didn’t do anything. I didn’t start singing until, like the scripture says, he put a new song in my heart. And I am very thankful for some of these hymns that we’re learning and singing over at. I still have problems so with the words simply because I never learned them. Growing up, Mike, you mentioned how your favorite historical account in the Scriptures was that of Hezekiah laying out the letter before the Lord and talking to him as though he were right there, which, of course, we know that the Lord is always there. Would you say that Hezekiah is your favorite giant of the faith from the Scriptures? Or do you actually have someone else in the Scriptures that when you think of them, you’re like, Man, that’s really a giant of the faith that I look up to and want to emulate. There’s someone else. And I don’t think I’ve ever heard someone else give this answer. But actually, it’s ASAP, the son of Baraca. Wow. I’ve never heard anyone choose ASAP as the giant of defeat. Now, forgive my ignorance, but who is a step? Is he the one that we see in the Psalms all the time? He wrote 12 of the Psalms. Okay. And the thing is, I studied his life when I was going to Bible school. I wrote my thesis on him, and I just found the flow of his growth in the faith. And his growth from just being under the hand of another guy, playing the symbols that finally ends up with him writing songs, being on a platform with David and saying some of the Psalms. And one in particular, one of the Psalms he wrote just to me just illustrates some of his life is he said, felt like I was gonna slip and fall because my steps, they had almost slipped away because I started getting envious of other people, of envious of the foolish. And I saw how other people that didn’t trust in God were getting along. And I just didn’t understand this. And then he went into the house of the Lord, and he saw their ladder in. And then he turned around and changed his life. He saw the end of the matter that his voice spoken me. Plus, he was the song leader of song leaders. I mean, this guy was mentioned over and over again. He passed it on to his children. You will read generations later about the sons of ASAP following his steps. And I have to say, I love seeing my children following in the steps of music and in song. And you might sing being like ASAP is singing the praises of the Lord. And so he’s just one of my favorites. You can see him featured very prominently in Chronicles. And he ministered before the arc of the Lord. And later he was called a seer a Prophet. And you don’t hear about you don’t hear as the Prophet, but you study his life. And you’ll see that he ended up in quite an important place next to David. So just interesting. You’ll have to study them sometime. Yeah, definitely. You’ve picked my interest to look into him. It a lot more. And I didn’t know some of those fine details.

All right, Let’s wrap it up. Tell us, how can barriers in the life of others be removed? You have come a long way from the early to mid Seventies, and you found Jesus. He changed your life. He remove your barriers. How can barriers in the life of others be removed? Mike, it really comes down something very simple. It’s the gospel. It’s the power of God under Salvation to everyone that believes and every opportunity that we have to tell people the truth. Right now, there’s a place in scripture that talks about truth has fallen in the streets right now. You know how things are. You can’t have to believe most of the things that are given in the media or in other formats, the truth. People don’t know what it is. They don’t know what really is going on behind the scenes in the world. And if we don’t tell them who’s going to tell them, and God has chosen to use people to spread his gospel, we’re called to be ambassadors, were to represent him and tell what’s on his mind and let other people know. And that is the best way, because it’s not our power to change someone’s mind, but the gospel. That is the power of God to Salvation. It’s the hearing of faith that will give them faith. And you telling people what Christ has done for you and what He did on the cross and how you can have a certainty of assurance of Heaven and those things. Those are still the answer for the world today. That might seem right, but there’s no better way. Mike, thank you for joining us on the Removing Barriers podcast. Well, it’s my pleasure, and I thank you very much for having me thank you for listening to get a hold of us to support this podcast or to learn more about removing barriers. Go to Removing Barriers net. This has been the Removing Barriers podcast. We attempted to remove barriers so that we all can have a clear view of the cross.