Episode 49

It has been said that not supporting the president is like wishing that the pilot flying the plane we’re all on crashes and burns. The scriptures are not ambiguous about God’s desire for the relationship between Christians and their government: we obey, submit, and pray for them that rule over us as they punish evildoers and reward the good. What is a Christian to do, then, when the government seems to be doing the opposite? When they promote evil and punish good? When they overstep the boundaries of authority that God has ordained for them? How do we support an administration that is hostile to the Christian faith? Join us on this episode of the Removing Barriers podcast as we explore ways in which the Christian can obey God and honor authority, while standing firm for the godly principles laid out in scripture.

I think that we should pray for what will help him the most. And I believe the Bible teaches that the answer is wisdom. If a leader wants to do what’s right, and there’s some questions about intent and motive at times. But if a leader is going to do what’s right, he’s going to have to realize that he cannot do it with his own ability. He can’t do it with his own intellect is anything from his own perspective. He needs help. And I believe wisdom is proper application of knowledge, proper application with God’s help. Thank you for tuning into the Removing Barriers podcast. I’m Jay and I’m MCG, and we’re attempting to remove barriers so we can all have a clear view of the cross. This is Episode 49 of the Removing Barriers podcast, and in this episode we will discuss how we can rightly obey first Timothy, chapter two, verse 1 to four, in the light of the current administration or in the light of any administration. And we have a guest from Episode 29. Roger, welcome back to the Removing Bars podcast, and thank you for joining us once again. Thank you for having me great. So, Roger, first 70, Chapter two, first 1 to four says I exhort dear four, that first of all, supplication prays, intercession and given up tanks. I mean, for all men, for Kings and for all that are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceful life in all Godliness and honesty, for this is good and acceptable in the sight of God, our Savior, who have all men to be saved and to come onto the knowledge of the truth. So tell me, Roger, why is it important for us to be praying for the President and his administration? Well, I’m not going to give you five or 10 different reasons, but I’ll say this because the Bible commands it. It’s as simple as that. I think in other questions it will come to bear as to why we should pray. But the Bible commands it. It’s imperative. Leadership is important, but it should be Godly and good leadership, and that’s why it is imperative and important. I wish most Christians I wish in my life that I would have probably been more faithful to pray for leadership, especially the leaders of our country. I think we sometimes we take it for granted of their abilities and so on. But it goes much further than that. Do you purchase for the federal leadership President, or do you include local, state, and stuff like that? Well, to be quite honest, when I think about what’s happened to our country in the last several years and how not just the office of the presidency, but many other officers, governmental officers and people in positions of authority and States and cities that I guess I’ve been more faithful to pray for all authority and all leadership, because the Bible says that, you know, it says in that scripture for all, and it’s imperative. I was just thinking about when we think about praying for authority, our thoughts automatically go to those in very high leadership positions, the presidency, perhaps even the governorship. But we don’t think about those that are in authority, but that their decisions hit much closer to home, say the school administrators and the teachers who are allowing or deciding what is going to be taught in the classrooms, or perhaps local officials that will determine how things are run at the local level. Perhaps we shouldn’t forget to include those in our prayers as well. I just wonder, though, if we know that there is an overt attempt to push an ungodly agenda not just on the American people, but on the children, like it’s deliberate and it’s stated on their part. Are we still obligated to pray, or is that where we stand up and push back? Or is the Christian even called to stand up and push back? I think we should be involved. I think that it’s imperative because of the fact that good and Godly people have not become as involved as we possibly should be. A lot of these things are coming to bear now, our lack of involvement or lack of even awareness as to what is going on. If anything, America has been awakened in the recent months. America is, I think, is reevaluating. Where am I going to stand? Because wherever any individual citizen takes a stand, it’s going to cost him something now because people are going after people, etc. I think it’s a serious thing. And Yeah, we should be involved. We should be involved in several ways. How do we pray for them, though? Okay. For example, how do we pray for President Biden and his administration, especially because we disagree with his policies? Do we pray for his heart to change? Or do we pray for the policies to be null and void? Or do we pray for righteous people to stand up? What should our prayers look like when we or sound like when we’re praying for Biden and his administration? Do you think? Well, I thought about that. And when I think of good leadership, if I’m going to look in, for example, in the Bible, I pick out King Solomon. King Solomon took over the leadership, the kingship of Israel and God. Ask him, ask me anything and I’ll give it to you. And he didn’t ask for riches. He didn’t ask for Super intelligence, he didn’t ask for anything, but he asked for one thing and that’s wisdom. He asked for wisdom. And I thought about that for a long time. And I’m guilty of how I prayed for leadership, how I pray for the President. I think that instead of praying, Lord help him to do and naming specific things that we agree with or disagree with in our prayers for the President, you’re asking specifically. I think that we should pray for what will help him the most and I believe the Bible teaches that the answer is wisdom. If a leader wants to do what’s right, and there’s some questions about intent and motive at times. But if a leader is going to do what’s right, he’s going to have to realize that he cannot do it with his own ability. He can’t do it with his own intellect, his own anything from his own perspective. He needs help. And I believe wisdom is proper application of knowledge, proper application with God’s help. And that’s what happened with King Solomon, his administration or his head ship for that country as long as he served, was above and beyond, above and beyond what a lot of Nations were going on at that time. I saw a verse even this morning speaking about his administration, and it said that among many Nations was there no King like him? And that was referring to King Solomon, his nation. His oversight of that nation at that time in history was above and beyond the best that was going on in the entire world. The only reason it was different and superior was that it was the result of him asking God for wisdom in all the decisions that he made. Let me elaborate on that a little bit, if I can. Good leadership is more than just intelligence. We’ve had a lot of intelligent. President Bill Clinton was a road scholar, highly intelligent person. How much knowledge? You know? Now you can get your hands on knowledge and information. You know, you can get your hands on anything you want. And I’m sure the leadership and the President has access to anything that he asks, you know, get me this information or get me that it’s more than just knowing the facts. How about experience? We have a President in office right now who his head in political and public office? Nearly 50 years of, quote, unquote experience. And then what about capability? You know, their ability to function, their ability to just lead, etc, just so many complicated things there. But it’s more than that that emphasizes man’s ability. That’s all that emphasize. But what about God’s intervention? What about God’s intervention? And so that gets me to think about what leadership is effective and successful. Leadership, I believe, is impossible without Godly wisdom, godly wisdom. And that’s what set apart Solomon from others. In fact, the Nations of the world came to Sullivan and picked his brain. He made some decisions. I believe he did it daily. And that’s what set apart his nation from other Nations of the world because of his leadership and how he used his people and how what a blessing he was to his people. You know, the Bible says speaking about wisdom, it says, if any man lack wisdom, let him ask of God. That’s not just true in the presidency. Wisdom. Wise wisdom is imperative in all walks of life. I mean, husbands are the heads of their home. We need wisdom. Businessmen, who own a business or run a business. Pastors, mayors, governors, senators or representatives and presidents and Kings. Everyone in authority needs wisdom. But how do you get wisdom? As I said, Solomon, he was set apart from all the other Kings. And so they were curious enough, or they were possibly wise enough, at least to go to Solomon. And he was accessible. People came to him, leaders came, and they picked his brain. They talked to him. The example that the Bible gives us about his wisdom was the story about these two women who had children gave birth to a child at about the same time. And during the middle of the night, one of the children was, I forget exactly who died. And the mother noticed that her baby was dead, and she went over and took the other mother’s child and claimed that child as her own. And the scriptures tell us that that situation. They argued back and forth. Can you imagine two women fighting for a child? And the chaos that came about? And that issue was brought before King Solomon? And in his Godly wisdom, he handed down a proclamation saying that if you’re not going to be satisfied, Let’s just make both of you happy and take that baby and cut it in half and give one half to one and 1 half to the other. And of course, the real mother of the child said no because she loved her child, and she would be willing to sacrifice her child for the health of that child, her having the child. And so she says, no, give it to the other woman. And right then and there it was a revelation. God used that to show who the real mother was and simple things like that. But he had that type of wisdom to make decisions. And he did. And the scriptures say, if any man like wisdom, let him ask of God. And I think it’s okay to pray for wisdom for our leaders. I think it’s okay. But the scriptures seem to indicate to me it says, if somebody needs or lacks wisdom, he’s the one who has to ask God for that wisdom. And so I think the most scriptural way to pray for any leader is not in specific saying, Lord, help me to make this decision for this cause and not do this thing because it’s wrong and just lay out things generically or generally. I think that if leaders need wisdom, then I’m going to pray Lord help our leaders, whoever I’m praying for, whether they’re in the home, whether they’re in a business, whether they’re in government, whether they’re pastors, I’m going to pray Lord help so and so to realize that they lack wisdom and help them to ask for that wisdom themselves. Great point. I feel very strongly about that. You know, wisdom is going to be given only if each person asks for himself. And so my prayer, I believe if I’m going to effectively pray for a President or anyone who’s lacking in something and wisdom is something that we all need. It’s not a negative that we would pray and ask for something like that. Hopefully they’ll realize that for them to be the best in what they’re doing, they need God’s help, and God will give it to him. The Bible promises that it says when we ask in sincerity, God will give it, he give it to all men liberally, and it shall be given him. He give it to all men liberally wisdom. And I think that’s imperative. Yeah. And we want to make it clear the biblical wisdom is different from education because of believe because they have degrees or whatever case, may be that they are wise, but it’s different. Typical wisdom is definitely different from being educated in this world. So along the same vein, Roger, should we be praying along political lines like help the President make a decision that is in line with our political philosophy or just that the President would make decisions that is in line with the Word of God, in line with what God would have him to do. What’s your thought on that? My understanding of government came about about, well, 30 some years ago. You know, I respect leadership, I respect authority, but I was ignorant very much ignorant of what the purpose of government is God ordained government. But I believe that government is designed by God. And if we need to understand the purpose of government so we can effectively pray more specifically as to those who are in government, how they should serve, I hope that makes sense. Yeah. If we don’t understand the purpose of government, we’re going to be praying for a lot of things I think that are off track. So what you’re saying is that if we don’t understand the purpose of government, then we will look into the government for things that the Church or Christian should be doing rather than the government, because I feel like in today’s society, we look to the government for a lot of things. We look to the government to change the way, you know, society is running or change the way. Let’s even bring it to current day, the racism, systemic racism thing that’s going on in the world today and that of folks believe that or this is a governmental issue where the government is systemically racist or the institution or systemic races. When we see the ID, the sin and a matter of the heart, as can and put it, race them in the sin issue, not a skin issue, but a lot of people look to the government to solve it rather than looking to Christ who ultimately can solve that issue. Is that what you’re saying? That we are looking to the government to solve problems that the Church and Christ should be following? Yeah. I think the government is designed specifically for certain things. And ever since I think shortly after the 19 hunters began, governments changed. We’ve allowed because our perspective has gotten away from God’s perspective. As far as what role government’s supposed to feel, we’ve allowed government to become a monster. I think over the time, and government right now wants to take control, wants to take control. I think it’s interesting where it says that you pray for leadership so that the people can live in peace. And I think that’s a real goal. It’s not the intent by God to have government rule and reign over people dictate to people. Government serves a purpose, and we’ll talk about that purpose of government. When you look at government, government is the biggest of everything in our country. They own the most land, they have the biggest budget. And some of these things you say, well, that’s obvious. But when you look down the line, we could list everything. Most who are in control is the government land, budget, control. Everyone saw a list, and it blew me away about four or 5 years ago. I read from a conservative writer who had done the research, and it helped me to realize how much out of control government has become, or if you want to turn it around, how much in control government is now. And it’s a very scary situation. So I’m going to navigate mating in a good testimony in speaking against evil while praying for those who are facilitating that evil, aka the government or whoever else leader that is in maturity. I think objectivity, that’s my simple answer to the question. We need to be objective. We cannot be objective when we focus on individuals instead of on the issues. Do you look at the climate today? There’s just, you know, we’re focusing on the individuals instead of on the legitimate issues that need to be dealt with. And the sad thing is it’s one person going after another. And I think that eliminates objectivity. You can’t even hardly give your opinion anymore if it’s a controversial opinion without the fear or whatever you want to call it, of getting backlash. Yeah. I think we had pass a Mike on episode called Christians and Politics. I think that was Episode 45. And he said that we have lost our ability to disagree. We no longer can disagree in this country. Same thing, Objectivity. We no longer can have one opinion versus another. Opinion is all put you in a different camp in this respect. So I guess you’re saying the same thing as well. Hey, we can have a dialogue. We can have a debate and they walk away to reference. In today’s society, it doesn’t seem like we can have a dialogue or debate or anything or walk away to reference because. Well, the question you ask is how can we navigate maintaining a good testimony in speaking against evil while praying for those facilitating that evil? I think that what we need to speak against is the evil and not concentrate on the person, and then maybe we can start getting down to dealing with those evils or those issues. Right? Yeah. I see what I say because I think in today’s society, politics tend to be focused either on the party or on the person like the President is, or either focus on Trump or Biden is not focused necessarily on issues. And what excuse a biblical or not. So I definitely see what you’re saying there. Well, the point is this, no matter who you look at, it, even as much as I may agree with Trump, Trump is not a savior. Definitely. He’s not a savior. He’s the human being. And we need to concentrate on his policies or any president’s policies and ask ourselves, are those policies working? Are they helping people, or are they hurting people? Are they building up our country, or are they tearing it down? Are they uniting our country, or are they dividing our country? And the emphasis should be on the policies, and that’s what I think we should emphasize. The Bible says that the heart of the King is in the hand of the Lord, and he turns it how he Wills. How do we pray with this truth in mind? Let me tell you my concern about how I think that a lot of Christians are perceiving this principle from the word of God. I hear Christians saying when things aren’t going well, well, the Lord’s in control, God’s in control, and I believe that God is in control as he chooses to be. I believe that with all my heart. But when I hear Christian saying, well, God’s in control, I’m not going to worry about it. He knows what’s going on, all this stuff principally or generally that is true. And I’m not arguing that. But I think that oftentimes what is meant by those statements. And I’m not a mind reader when I hear people say that. But it is concerning to me for someone to say that and probably even thinking of this verse when they say the King’s heart is in the hand of the Lord, and he turn it with us, whoever he will, will God’s working and he’s going to work it all out, do this and do that, and I can sit back. And Unfortunately, most Christians do. They sit back and they don’t pray as fervently as they should because they’re not as concerned as they should, thinking that this verse says that, well, what’s going to happen is going to happen. You know, I can’t make a difference. I don’t agree with that type of approach. I have a real concern. I think God can work on the heart. I think this is an incentive. And I talked to my wife about this and trying to understand this verse. This is an incentive for God’s people and for all people to pray for leadership, because God is the only one that can work in the heart of leadership. And this is, I don’t think not a confirmation for Christians to say, well, I don’t have to worry about it. I don’t have to be involved in it. I don’t have to be concerned or I’m not going to lose any night sleep and so on and so on and so forth. And so I’m not going to get involved and I’m not going to do what I need to do to hold leadership in my country. I think this is just the opposite, saying, Hey, the only one that can affect leadership is God, and we must go to him with the hope that he is going to work on the hearts of the appropriate leaders and bring about what’s good and what’s right and Godly in this situation. I think it’s important for us to remember, too, that the purposes of God can’t be frustrated. And the Bible warns us not to be deceived because God is not mocked. If a leader is sewing things that displeased the Lord, he’s going to reap those repercussions and to some extent the nation as well, because we’re under his or her authority. And so the heart of the King is in the hand of the Lord. Yes, that could mean that the Lord will turn his heart toward good if he like you mentioned in James, if he is humble enough to realize that he needs with them and he prays and ask God for it. But we also know from Romans one that when a person hardens their heart against the Lord, he kind of lets them go and lets them have kind of like turning them over to their sin so that sin could have its way and they could follow headlong the destruction that they’re following headlong. Anyway, I think you’re right, Christians that would use that verse to describe. Well, I’m hands off. I don’t need to participate. That’s not quite what the verse is saying. I think it’s just saying one of the things is saying is that the purpose of God will not be frustrated. And I also think about it in this light. There’s an ethical on our website called The Serenity, and all of us noticed, for some of us even have it hanging a wall in the home. I think you come down to that because at the same time you can do do, do, do and expect change. But if you don’t see the change and then you get disappointed, depressed, discourage, whatever, then what do you do? There’s some point where you say, Lord, grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change, carry to change the things I can and with them to know the difference. You know, I’m fine with one vote. I’m fine with going out there and learning what I need to learn and using scripture to direct how I vote and who I vote for in that sense. And we have had several episodes on this. We had Christians and Politics episode 48 is COVID Christians and politics. So we have been talking about these things. I think there’s a lot Christians can do. And even in the last two elections, we saw the fold in power that Christians have. But at the same time, you should step back and say, you know what? The King’s hat is in the hands of the Lord, and he can lead that wherever he will. And if sometimes we have to come back and say, you know what the pre serenity, we’re going to accept the things we cannot change, courage to change the things I can. And God grant us the wisdom to know the difference. That’s how I look at that, because at the same time, I don’t want to be worried and frustrated because of what I do or Trump or any government official is doing. But at the same time, I don’t want to sit back and say, well, there’s nothing I can’t do, because clearly there’s things that we can do include in career as we’re talking about here. Well, it’s interesting in Proverse 21, verse one, which we’ve been talking about quoting, let me read verse two and 3. I’ll start with first one. So the King’s heart is in the hand of the Lord, as the Rivers of water, he turneth it whithersoever he will. I once heard some preachers say Christian faith, Unfortunately, sometimes is like a River that zigs and Zags. And really the water in a River follows the path of least resistance, and that’s how it flows. And the preacher said that’s Unfortunately, how a lot of Christians faith is. They follow the path of least resistance, and I think that we should be involved. But verse two here says, every way of a man is right in his own eyes, but the Lord ponder the hearts. Hers three, to do Justice and judgment is more acceptable to the Lord and sacrifice. And I think this is a motivation for us to realize that God’s the only one that can do work in people’s, hearts, leaders and all people. And we should be faithful to pray, you know, to that end, be more involved and turn it over to the Lord. As you brought up that verse, you know, we ever man seemed right in his own eyes. Have we not seen that in our politics and in our society today? You know, the Republicans see that they’re writing their own eye. The Democrats see that they write in their own eyes. I think that we have seen, you know, the Bible being fulfilled left, right and Center all in our society today, because I also think about the end of judges. In those days, there were no Kings in Israel. So everyone did, which was right in the own Yes, and definitely see that today. So, Roger, what specific things do you think we should be praying for? Well, Here’s my I say that about 35 years ago I went to a patriotic gathering in Chicago with several other pastors. And at that time, the country was starting to turn. What you was that, well, that was back in early 80? S okay. And when you say the country was beginning to turn, you mean turn for good or well, the country was opposing just a lot is not for good. Okay. In a lot of things interfering with a lot of things at that time, there was objection to home schooling, things like that and so on. And, you know, when the government and my wife and I home schooled in a state that was not allowing it. At the time we relocated to that state, we found out that that state and two other States were there only three States in the whole of all 50 that did not allow or approve of home schooling. And it wasn’t until we lived there for six years that that state legislature made accommodation for home schooling issues like that, that Christians had to stand up or say, we have the right to educate our children the way we feel they should be educated. And if they’re not being taught the right things, in fact, then secular, humanism and things like that, we’re being pushed into the schools, and parents didn’t want their children to hear that stuff. And as did we. And we homeschooled. I’ll be honest with you. We homeschooled against the law. For quite a few years. About the time that North Dakota was the state we were living in, they made the accommodation to home school. And I’ll tell you this story, they said that will allow parents to home school, but they have to take a teacher equivalency test. And so many parents. And there were dozens of families in the whole state, mostly congregated in the area of Bismark and in the Fargo area. And these families had they lobbied for the opportunity to home school and so on. And so they said, Here’s our chance. And we got to make sure that we pass these tests. The day my wife took the teacher equivalency test in Fargo, there were about between 20 and 30 other parents that we’re taking the test, probably one representative from each family, as was the case with us. And my wife had studied for the test past test. You could get your hands on them. And the thing is, the test weren’t comprised of history and science. And those type of things, like you would think of traditional test was a lot of the test was teaching methods and things that you couldn’t get out of a textbook teaching methods. And my wife had to become familiar with those type of things, and even if she disagreed with them, but she had to pass the test. And that day there were out of 25 or so who took the test. There were two or 3 that did not pass it. And you say, well, that’s pretty good. We found out later on the average of those who failed, of teachers who went to College to be a teacher, to be an educator. The first time that those graduates took the teacher equivalency to ask, the failure rate was 50%. These are graduates that are graduates. Wow. And it was just the hand of God, the hand of God. And there was only two or 3 that did not pass out of that in our area. And so on. It was an eye opening experience when you think about it. And as soon as my wife passed the test, the Lord opened the door for us to go across the border to buy a home in Minnesota. And we did that. We didn’t run away from the situation. We could have continued to home school. And so we relocated across the border on the other side of the River, which was the border then from Fargo, North Dakota, more in Minnesota. And we continued to home school in Minnesota. It just so happened that we were doing it in a different state that had made accommodations for quite a while. And so because citizens and concerned parents didn’t just buckle in and cave that they fought for their right, it eventually came about and with God’s blessing in God’s hand. But what specifically should we pray for? I think that in this symposium and as a result of the climate that was going on, I went to this symposium in Chicago area, and this one Speaker encapsulated the whole purpose of government in his speech or his message, and he said that there’s a three fold purpose of government, and I’m sure I’m not going to capture it all. But I have followed this principle for the last 35 years. It has helped me to understand the purpose of government. And when I see government involved in this area and in that area and the other area with this definition of what government’s supposed to be involved in, it helped me to understand very quickly as to whether government should even have their nose in those issues or not. And the three full purpose of government that was given was very profound and very interesting. The Bible says in Romans 13 1, where there is no power but of God, the powers that be are ordained of God. In other words, God has instituted government. That’s what he’s referring to here. It says in verse two of that same chapter, whosoever therefore resistance the power or the authority. Governmental authority, resistance the ordinance of God. In one Peter 2 17, it says, Honor all men, love the brethren, fear God, and honor the King. So we’re supposed to have respect and so on. But to what length does that go? Well, the three full purpose of government that I learned about would break it down into three different pies. The first P is protection. Protection. The purpose of government is for protection, and that involves for our nation. That’s why we have the military, Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine, the common defense, the common defense for protection. That’s the purpose why we have a government and every nation has that. They’re going to have to need that. And then there’s local protection with state, state Highway patrol, state National Guard, local and city police, law enforcement to maintain order and so on, because that’s necessary. Look, what’s going on in our climate today. Government is failing is failing its people. The climate that we see going on today as far as protection is, we want to defund protection, whether it be police, whether it be National defense. We want to defund all this thing. And that’s totally contrary and against what government is there to do. Now, the interesting thing about our country is that our military is not built up to go out and conquer the world. So I’m going to defend our defense. I’m going to defend our right to protect because we don’t use these power. We have. We’re not out conquering the world like some other countries are like some other countries are. We’re not perfect as a nation, but we’re not out trying to conquer and trying to overcome and rule the world like dictators have done in the past, and it will continue to do in the future. So our country has maintained, I believe it’s because of the fact we’ve tried to maintain a Godly principle in that particular area. So protection protection is the first P. The second P is punishment. Our government should be involved in enforcing the laws. Laws are meant to maintain law and order and preserve the peace. And that’s what I think is being referred to in Timothy, where it says that men could live in peace as long as governments doing their job. People are going to live in peace. But when government falls back and fails to realize its purpose for whatever reason and does not do their job, that’s when you’re going to have chaos and turmoil. And that’s a lot of the climate that we see today. Romans chapter 13, verse two says, Talking about people obeying laws. It says, whosoever resisted the law, resistant the ordinance of God, and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. First Peter 2 14 says, Or onto governors as unto them that are sent by him by God for the punishment of evil doers. It’s government’s purpose. Romans 13 4 says, But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid, for he beareth not the sword in vain. That’s talk about government, for he is the Minister of God, a Revenger to execute wrath upon him, the death evil. And that’s why we have prosecutors and judges and courts. That’s why we have jails and prisons to execute this unfortunate thing. Call punishment when people break the law. Look what’s going on in our climate today, and it’s a sad, scenary government has. They have shirt their responsibility big, big time. And the third P is praise. You know, when I used to see on television is a young man, the President honoring people for their service, whether their in their communities, for their being future farmers of America. They bring these young people in there who were part of that organization and commend them for doing a good job. And I think what a waste of money. What a waste of money for them to fly these people to Washington, DC and put a metal on them or do this or that and everything. And then I realized from what the Scripture teaches, that we’re supposed to commend people that are doing what’s good and what’s right. The Book of Romans 13 trees do that which is good, and Thou shalt have praise of the same first Peter 2 14. And for the praise of them that do well, that’s speaking of a government context, you know, I realized right away that my thinking was totally wrong to bring people in and commend them for their service, whether they’re military people, whether they’re common citizens, whether they’ve done things for charity, if they’re doing good things and great things for people helping people, helping situations, that it is part of government’s job to commend them and to encourage others and them to do the same. And so the three full purpose of government is protection, punishment and praise. And that’s it. That’s it to say this government has gone far and above beyond all this type of stuff for government to be involved in helping people make a living, for government to be involved in anything but these three things. And you sit back and think this scenario through and government is out to control people’s lives, and that’s not the purpose of government at all. Yeah. Roger, you open a lot of stuff there in my mind. So you said protection, punishment, punishment and praise. I have a question for you, but you’re listening to the Removing Barriers podcast. We are sitting down with Roger, and we are discussing how can we support President Biden true prayer? Don’t go anywhere. We’ll be right back. Do you have the desire to earnestly content for the faith which was once delivered onto the Saints? Answers and Genesis can help. They provide biblically sound books, CDs, DVDs, homeschooling materials, VBS materials, online courses, digital downloads and the Answers magazine and more. Plus tickets to the Creation Museum and Ark Encounter. Go to the Answers bookstore by clicking the link in the description section below. So you, too, can be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks the reason of the hope that is in you. So, Roger, just before we went on the break, you mentioned the three PS for government, and you said that the protection, punishment and pray. So tell me, in the 200 and what 45 years of this country, what do you think, in your opinion, led to a government of the five? I think that we’ve lost the focus of what government was designed to do. I realize this is a simplistic outline of what government, but it covers a lot of things because of the lack of understanding and teaching from the churches as to what the purpose of government is. I never heard this in a Church. I haven’t heard this from any churches I’ve been in in the last 35 years. The purpose of government explained in detail. I’ve taught this one time in my life in a Sunday school class, and I think it’s a relation to people generally to realize that that’s the purpose of government. Now, what is our government involved in? I think our governments involved in way too many things. Much of it is control. Government was never designed by God to control people. It was designed by God to be there to protect people law and order to punish, to do the things that I said that it should do. Our government is involved in too many things, and I believe it’s totally out of control. But the way that we have our government set up, currently, we’ve seated that control to them because we have a representative government and the government can’t do anything that the people don’t allow the government to do. Of course, there are situations where the government could just March all over the people. But I’m thinking back to the New Deal era we’re talking about in the era of the Great Depression. I can’t think of a single time in the history of this country where the government exploded in size. Besides that particular time, I’m sure it’s been growing steadily ever since. And so you have all of these new programs that come into play. What I’m simply saying is that as the people, we’ve seated much of the control that belong to us to the government. And I think we do it when we’re afraid. I think we do it when things seem to be too much to handle, and we feel like we need some external help. And our trust and faith is in the government and not in God where it ought to be. But we thought that you in Covetable, there was this new novel virus that no one knows anything about. And all of a sudden now we give up all our freedom to the government. So I see what you’re saying. I think for most part, and I think this is what Roger is going to hitting at that the churches feel because the Church that should have been teaching people what the purpose of government is to keep us from depending on the government. Right. But at the same time, you know, people depend on the government, say, for Social Security or for a paycheck, when quite honestly, that should be coming from the Church, who should be supporting the widows and the father less. That should be the Church. And if you want to put it in a somewhat of a secular term, that should be society, not necessarily the government, but because we see all these things to the government, then the government has to become bigger and bigger and bigger to do all these things. I believe you’re right. We’ve allowed it to our shame, to our ignorance as to what the purpose of government is. Let me give you an example. When authority gets control of things, they tend to over react the situation. When we were wanting to home school and we went to the authorities, I remember like it was yesterday, we were called into the office of the school Superintendent and he was gracious. We had a good meeting, not an agreeable meeting, but we never fought or argued. But he was on the side of the state. Well, we were breaking the mandatory school attendance law. That was all he had to go by. We weren’t sending our kids to public school, we said, but we’re teaching our kids at home with the curriculum. We brought the curriculum to show him he was not the least bit interested in even looking at what we were teaching. So the issue to us was he didn’t care about whether the kids were learning or not. The law said that you had to put your children in school from the age of seven to 16. That was the law in North Dakota. How many kids, if they started seven and only go till 16, are going to graduate in this country? Not a lot, not a lot. And so the law was in itself inadequate. Were we not teaching our children? Yes. We believe that God is entrusted children to the parents to raise them in the nurturing admonition of the Lord. Children are in heritage of the Lord to the parents to raise. And we asked him graciously, what authority does the government have? And the answer that we got back was when you got married, what did you and your wife have to do to get married? And the answer was what we went out and got permit, you know, a marriage license to get married. And they came back and said, as a result of that permission that we granted you to get married, we own all the results of that permission interest in not just interesting. Our eyes just about popped out of our head. That’s your justification. And that’s the premise here. I think that when you allow authority to do some things, we are biting off more. Then we’re realizing we’re biting off more than we’re realizing when businesses ask for permission or churches even ask for, I think, in Corporation. And we get that in Corporation or whatever the churches want to get from higher authority, we are submitting to them and they can turn around if they desire down the road and the opportunity for them to turn around and say, we gave you that permission. Now you owe us. I think we need to be careful because I don’t think government was ever designed by God. When you get out of the realm of protection, punishment and praise. You’re getting into some personal issues, and you’re dabbling in people’s lives, and that’s where the people can live in peace and the people can live in tranquility. Most people want to just live a quiet life. They just want to make a living, provide for their family. You know, when the government gets involved, to the extent that it has, I think we’re biting off for allowing too many things to happen. We said earlier that the person has to be the ones to realize that they have no wisdom and ask God for that wisdom. Should we be praying that the officials in our government realize that they have too much power? And if our government has a finger in the pot and things that are not their business, is it right for Christians to pray in predatory prayers on our leadership or to push back or to do all of those things that would rebuke the government because they’ve stepped out of their God given bounds? I think that once an entity has control, they’re probably very unlikely to relinquish that control. And we’re in a volatile situation where, like I said, the government has become a monster. It’s gotten way out of proportion. We out of control. It affects every facet of our lives. And it was never intended to be. It was just simply to be, I believe, simplicity, protection so that people can live in peace, punishment for those who break the law, to encourage us to be lawful, law abiding citizens, and then to encourage those who by praising them to be a citizen who’s contributing and doing good for their fellow man and good and Godly things. And above and beyond that, look what’s happening in our environment when there’s just an attempt to manipulate and to control our lives. It carries over into everything. And I think it’s all contrived, you know, control is a thing that you don’t want to let go of. And I think that we would all believe that our government is trying to run our lives, and it was never meant to be, never meant to be. It’s totally out of whack. So maybe one of the things that Christians can do to support the President or to support leadership is to be vigilant so that we never put the government in a position to take so much control. Could that be part of it as well? Well, we need to get it back. But we relinquished that a long time ago, and it just gotten bigger and bigger and bigger. And the issue is that most people, even God’s people are not aware what the purpose of government is. If you don’t know the purpose of something, then how are you going to pay for it? Scripturally, If you don’t know the purpose of a home, that there’s a role that the man takes her, a role that the wife takes, the role of the children. If you don’t understand that you’re going to have chaos. You’re going to have total chaos. You have to understand the rules. We don’t work for a business without knowing our limitations or regulations. You know, all of there has to be something there that guides us. And I think Americans, they’re starting to question I wish there’d be more teaching and preaching in the purpose of today is the purpose of government and why we’ve gotten where we are. And maybe it would help us to pray more fervently and more scripturally as to the purpose of our government. And they should get their hands off of this issue on that issue. And the other issues that don’t correspond with what God designed it to be that I think is imperative. So without knowing what the purpose of something is, how can we effectively pray and pray correctly for that entity? You know, what specific things should we be praying for for the government to do what it was designed to do no more, no less. And how are we going to fix these other things only by educating, educating God’s people, educating our country, you know, going forward with that. So do you think we can ever truly tell whether an administration or presidency is a curse or blessing on how should we pray accordingly? Well, I think that the present administration is trying to reach way too far, control way too much. Are they doing what’s good and what’s best for the country and for the people? I think most Americans would question that. I think in the last administration, when the government backed off on a lot of things and allowed people, allowed people from different races to improve their economic and their living conditions and so on, gave them the opportunity in a free and a peaceful society to flourish. That’s the direction that our country should go. I think we’re seeing the total opposites presently, what we had and what we’ve lost and where we’re headed now. And I hope every American opens their eyes. This is not a Republican Democrat. I think there’s a lot of Republicans that are just as guilty for what’s going on as there are Democrats. I personally I’ll just say this. I personally will not support either party until they show that they understand their limitations. As far as how they’re going to back off and allow people to live a life without repression, are we any better than some of these countries around the world that have dictators? Our government is a dictator, and Unfortunately, it’s a sad I think our government wants to control at all, and it’s doing it without us even realizing it’s controlling everything we do. And as long as it’s to their benefit, they’re buckling down. Well, considering how interactions between Nations affect the people of the land, do you think that we should be praying for heads of state as well? You talked about how are we any better than a country that has a dictatorship. Should we be praying for other heads of state as well? Yes. That somehow they would have the inclination to realize that they need the Lord. I mean, you look at Solomon. Other countries came to him because of the environment, in the atmosphere and all the good things that were happening in Israel. And they wanted or their people wanted to have the same thing. So these leaders would go and say, How did this come about? My question is, what country would come to our country for advice, considering the condition our country is in right now? That’s a scary proposition to me. And justifiably we’re being criticized. My other leaders saying that you can’t even control your own society. Who are you to tell me? And there is some justification for that now. They’re doing it to defend their wickedness and so on in their country. They’re just taking the question, turning it and throwing it back in our face. But the reality is there’s truth to that. Unless we can own up to our own scenario, you know, who are we to speak and criticize? Yeah. Definitely. The things we saw in the sum of 2,020 leading up to the presidential election and even January six of 2 21 definitely looks a lot like many other countries around the world when the people arrive and the police and the military and whoever else get involved there. So you definitely have a point. The America no longer have a moral horse that they can stand on and say, Hey, do this because we are morally better, because sin has crept in. When cruise ship came to our country back in the 50? S and 60? S, I believe it was crucial said the difference between America and the rest of the world are the pulpits, the pulpits. And my question today my challenge. I pray as much for pastors as I do for political leaders. Lord, give them the courage to stand up and preach the word. Give them the courage to do that. Give them the insight to teach people what’s right. The Popes were the ones who taught the Americans pre Revolutionary War as to their rights and what was their God given right. And the pastors are the ones who a lot of them led the people into fighting against the British. They took off their pastor robes and they had soldier uniforms underneath. And they said, I’m gonna lead you and Let’s go. You know, when I learned that and heard that it was a conviction with those people, people live by conviction back then because they knew what was right. And until our churches start preaching, really preaching and not worrying about government intervention or feedback or persecution, unless our churches start preaching and teaching, people were in a destitute situation, this should be waking us up. I think Americans are waking up now. Maybe that’s the reason the Lord allowed what’s going on to go on? Americans are starting to wake up because we realize what we’re losing. We realize what we’re missing. I would love to go back to the days when I was a kid. Life was simple. Life was so much more uncomplicated. Environment was people can joke and say, Well, you grew up in the farm in North Dakota. But I tell you what, I’m never going to forget that. We’re never going to forget that because it was the kind of life that I think God wants people to have. You know, there’s not fighting every day and every day in America instead of being aware of what’s going on. I think Americans are scared and probably rallying, but also there I don’t know. We’re living in a chaotic situation and whether we’ll ever come out of this again, I don’t know, but I’d sure like to have the opportunity. And it’s not just always a political answer, but it’s a people. The people have to be behind this. And I hope the people are rallying. And like I said, I don’t think it’s one party. I think it’s both who are complicit to total government control. I think they’ve been brainwashed into thinking that I think our schools. I’m just being blunt, how can some of my relatives who’ve recently gone to College come out and be so anti American? How can they do that? Because this stuff is being taught in the schools from Elementary through high school, through colleges. And I think we need to wake up that there’s an agenda out there. The media is not just ignorant and just going along with it out of ignorance. They’re complicit and they are intentionally in bed with the Communists and Marxist agenda to bring our country down, to have us under control. And the sad thing is, candidates can say, Well, I’m a Marxist and I’m a Communist, and people still vote for them. Unfortunately, that’s total ignorance of what communism and Marxism is, and it’s a sad, sad scenario in our country. Our country needs to be educated and informed as long as this whole mentality is being allowed or we’re not forced to do what we think we should have a conscience to do. Never in the history of our country have Americans been manipulated. Have Americans been coerced to doing what the government wants them to do, whether it’s take a vaccine shot or comply with this type of acceptance of sexual preference, or whether a person is a male or female or any of these things. This is a program that’s put forth and it’s a sad scenario. And Americans, I think that, you know, it’s not a party thing. It’s an agenda that started back in the thirties and forties. Hitler didn’t get where he was without propagating and taking the kids in his country, putting them through in doctrination, I’m a German by descent, and I was born in America. My grandparents were and my parents, of course, were. And I asked myself, How could the Germans sit back and be complicit with knowing and seeing or whether they even saw a 6,000,000 innocent Jews and others being massacred. How could they sit back and do that? And it was because they were indoctrinated to such an extent that they no longer had a conscience or they had such a fear of standing up. Is America any different now? Are we any different? If we allow this mentality to go on, it’s going to ruin the future generations and there’s not much to live for after that. Alright, Roger. So what do you think is the ultimate need of the President and his administration? I think the ultimate need for the President is the fact that he’s no different than any other person. He’s a human being. He has spiritual needs, he has social needs. You know, he has physical needs. But the ultimate need of every person, according to the Word of God, is that people need to know that they’re sinners and they need Jesus Christ as their Savior. The Bible says in the Book of first Timothy two, verses 3 and four, for this is good and acceptable in the sight of God, who will have all men to be saved and to come on to the knowledge of the truth. Second Peter 3 9 is the Lord is long suffering to us Ward not willing that any should perish with at all should come to repentance all God’s hope and his will for each and every individual who’s ever lived, who is living now, who will live in the future is to come to know his Son Jesus Christ as their own Lord and personal Savior. And that’s the ultimate need. If we don’t have the Lord in our lives, then you know Holy Spirit living within our hearts, then it doesn’t matter how much material things we gain or power we accumulate in our lives. Status we gather boss, what shall look proper? The man if he shall gain the whole world. That’s true of each and every individual, if he shall gain the whole world, but lose his own soul. And the ultimate need of each and every person is that they need to be saved. Their soul is going to spend eternity somewhere and that’s somewhere God hopes is in heaven. I pray for that for my families. I pray for that for people I know who I know don’t know. The Lord God wants people to be saved. That’s the ultimate need. And my wife and I my wife, especially. She’s prayed for Nancy Pelosi for months now, not necessarily every day, but said Lord her need is to be saved. Chuck Schumer’s Need is to be saved. President Trump’s need if he isn’t, is to be saved. I think the President Trump was influenced and around a lot of Christians who were hand chosen in his administration, whether by intentionally or or just happened to be that he was surrounded by Christian influence and probably Christian Council. And maybe that was the results of his administration were were influenced by those counselors, etcetera. But that’s the need for people to be saved. That’s the need of his administration. And you wonder how many are really saved in the present administration, considering their beliefs and what gender they are trying to push and etc. But, you know, we’ve been praying that the President, you know, that all leadership, they come to know the Lord. So why don’t we end with you offering a prayer for this present administration? Lord, we care about our our country. We love our country. And I pray, Lord, for our country to go forth in the way that you wish for it to go. God, that’s going to take your hand and miracle on your part to deal and work in our lives. When I pray for leadership, I pray that our leadership would realize that they need to have wisdom to conduct good and Godly leadership in our country. I pray that they’d be aware of that they would ask you for it. And if they ask in sincerity, the Lord you promised you promise you’re going to give it to him, that just doesn’t happen. Godly wisdom is so imperative. And I pray, Lord, that you just do your work in the hearts of our leadership. I pray the decisions that they make would be for the betterment of the country, for the welfare of the people, and that we would go forward and have the kind of life that God you designed for us to have with proper government, doing their job and allowing people to just live their lives in peace and in an environment. Lord, that conducive to raising a family. Lord, I’m concerned for my children, my grandchildren, in the environment that they’re going to have to grow up in. I pray God that you would just do your work, do your work and all leadership in our country, starting with us as husbands, starting with businessmen that would seek wisdom from you to run their business honestly and with integrity. Lord, Godly, men running businesses can do so much. They are accountable to their employees. And Lord, they can be such a blessing if they run their businesses with wisdom. I pray the same for leaders. I pray for people in authority and government, for mayors and four people on the school board and so on. God just help these people to realize the responsibility that is there to do what’s right and what’s good. I pray for the normal citizen also. Did you help us not to just hide, help us not to just cave? I’ve been praying that you raise up people to stand in the gap, people who care enough and be honest with themselves enough to stand up in spite of what the feedback maybe and do and say what’s right because there is a right and there is a wrong and those truths come from your word. And Lord, I pray that above all your Word would resonate with our country, or our laws are based on the Judeo Christian principles of Your Word. And I pray those principles are supposed to be upheld in our country by our leaders. I pray Your Word would become paramount, that we submit not to a person, but to principles that come from God and Lord, if we do that, we want to know your truth. You’re going to show it to us, and you can bring revival in our country. And you can bring us back to you. And we can quit playing Church and quit playing with, you know, hide our heads in the sand. Lord, help us to stick up and stand up. And I praise you. Raise up people from all walks and all opportunities. Or there would be people standing in the gap. Or I thank you for the leadership that we’ve had the President over the years, for George Washington, who would pray, pray with their soldiers, his soldiers, for the Abraham Lincoln. Who was it? Your Word? And I heard that he got safe while he was President. That’s what I heard kind of. And I wouldn’t be surprised. And, Lord, he had the courage in a tremendously the hostile situation, perhaps even worse than ours today. I don’t know. But he stood true to Your Word. I can’t imagine any leader President on down who sits in the Oval Office and says, here I’ve arrived. Here I am. I made it. I’m the President of the United States. And then all of a sudden, they realize the tremendous responsibility. And I’m sure if they’re human, in honest, they’re going to say, I sure hope I could do the job. I’ve got the experience, I’ve got the knowledge, I’ve got the intellect. But I pray, Lord, that they realize that they need to have all these things put together and have the wisdom of God to do the right kind of job. I pray they be humble enough to do it. Lord, would you help us to uphold our leaders in the way we should, and that we’d be there as a support system for them? We love our country. We wanted to continue. And, Lord, I pray like the verses God’s Grace will fall on us and continue with us. I asked all this in Jesus name. Amen. Roger, thank you for joining us and the Removing Various podcasts. Appreciate your time. Appreciate being here. Thank you for listening. To get a hold of us to support this podcast or to learn more about removing barriers. Go to Removing Barriers net. This has been the Removing Barriers podcast. We attempted to remove barriers so that we all can have a clay view of the cross.