Episode 222

On this episode of the Removing Barriers Podcast, we are joined by Will Klassen, missionary to the Mexican Mennonites in Chihuahua, Mexico. Mexican Mennonites, with varying degrees of intensity, are generally isolated from other Mexicans around them, choosing only to fully engage other Mennonites. Will Klassen grew up in Canada in a religious Mennonite household devoid of the pure gospel, but the Lord saved him when he was 19 years old. Subsequently, the Lord called him to minister to the Mennonite people living in Mexico, most of whom descended from Mennonites that migrated there in the 1920s. He has been reaching them for Christ for the last 16 years. His Mennonite heritage makes it possible to reach them with the gospel of Christ where others may not even be able to get a foot in the door. Listen in as he discusses his ministry, some of the challenges in reaching and ministering to the Mennonites, and the amazing things God has been doing on this field.

[Will Klassen]

The biggest thing, really the biggest, barrier, I guess, we’re talking about breaking through barriers, is for them really to come to a point where they, I guess, see themselves as a sinner.

[Jay]

Thank you for tuning in to the Removing Barriers podcast. I’m Jay and I’m MCG. And we’re attempting to remove barriers so we can all have a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

This is episode 222 of the Removing Barriers podcast. And this is the 26th in the series of On the Mission Field. And in this episode, we will be going on the mission field with missionary Will Klassen to Mexico. Brother Will, it is indeed a pleasure. Welcome to the Removing Barriers podcast.

[Will Klassen]

Well, thank you for having me. It certainly is a pleasure for me to be here, and this is something I’ve been looking forward to, so I’ll sure appreciate the time you’re taking for me.

[MCG]

Definitely. We have been looking forward to it too.

[Jay]

Hi, this is Jay. MCG and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to removingbarriers.net and subscribing to receive all things Removing Barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at removingbarriers.net/donate. Removing Barriers, a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

All right, let’s jump into it. Tell us about yourself, your calling, your family, whatever you feel comfortable sharing with the internet. Of course, we met Bethany back in episode 216, 17, somewhere around there, but glad to meet you now.

[Will Klassen]

Okay, well, thanks once again. So as was mentioned, my name is Will Klassen and my wife and I, we reside in near the city of Cuoctemoc, Mexico, which is in the state of Chihuahua. It is 200 miles south of El Paso, Texas. And as far as the reason why we’re here, I was born here, but I didn’t grow up here. I did grow up in southern Manitoba in Canada, and I grew up in a religious home that taught a lot of things about the Bible, but never taught the pure gospel and how one could be saved. So it was when I was 19 years of age that I came to know Christ as my Savior. And it was in the same church that I later decided to learn more about the Christian faith. And I attended a Bible college. Through that, I was called to the ministry and the Lord called us to this area here. So we have nine children, my wife and I. We have three boys and six girls.

[MCG]

Wow.

[Will Klassen]

And our children, they help us in the ministry. We have one married daughter, our oldest daughter. She is married and we have two grandsons.

[MCG]

Amen.

[Will Klassen]

Which we’re very, very thankful for and a lot of fun. And so we’ve been here for a while now and just seeking to do what the Lord would have us to do.

[MCG]

And one engaged. Don’t forget that.

[Will Klassen]

Correct. Yes. She would not want me to forget that. So yeah, the wedding is upcoming here in just a little bit, about a month down the road.

[MCG]

All right. Well, why don’t you tell us a little about your salvation testimony?

[Will Klassen]

Okay. So I started off with saying just a little bit, but yeah, our home was religious. We were very, very faithful to go to a church and my parents were good parents. Very, very moral upbringing. Very thankful for that. However, it was a lot of just outward, extremities as far as our parents teaching us to do right and not to do wrong. So even though, going to church, I learned a lot of things about the Bible stories and so on, moral applications, but the gospel was never presented. So I cannot remember really ever hearing about a new birth. You know, I would hear about people maybe changing their lives, different things like that, but because there’s no clear teaching on that, the default was just to live life, basically, plugging church in on Sunday morning. And as I got older, in my youth years, I was just a regular Canadian kid that went to a public school where I had, bad peer influences. And as I got older, it got worse because even though I grew up in a small community, later on, as I went into high school, I went to a larger community school where there was obviously a lot more, you know, of the worldly influences infiltrating into the school. So really, I just kind of defaulted to living in the flesh. Basically, whatever felt good, you know, do that. And so I did that for a few years, lived a life of sin. But thankfully, I had a brother-in-law who began attending a Baptist church in our local community. And he was really excited about the things that he was learning there. And so he was somebody that I really looked up to, had for many years already, you know, as I had known him since I was a small boy. I grew up in a large family, so we were a very traditional Mennonite family, 12 siblings, and I was number 10 of the 12. So my brother-in-law was probably about 10, 12 years older than I was. And so he was going to that church and he got me to come on Sunday morning. And it was something different than I’d ever experienced before because the preaching was from the Word of God. And in our previous church, even though they would use the Bible, but it was not really making, you know, application that was helpful for a person to find the Lord. So In this case, when I went to that church, the Baptist church where the gospel was being preached, it was a message that really stirred me. And so even though I was a very introverted teen, while I was 19 years old, I was a young adult, I guess. Very introverted, very shy, very uncomfortable in the service because it was very different from what I had experienced previously. However, my heart was burdened and convicted, I should say. And so at the close of the service, then they typically would extend an invitation to the congregation, and particularly their concern was for those who were lost. And so the question went out from the pastor if there were any in the congregation that were unsure of their salvation. And so I raised my hand that I was unsure, and the appeal was made, you know, for those to come to the front and speak with somebody, but I remained in my seat. And so the invitation was closed, and following the service, you know, thankfully the pastor because he had noticed that I had responded, he actually came down and he asked me if I would like to know more about salvation. So if I think about it now, it’s probably a bit of an odd thing, not because he’s not very much a soul-winning pastor, but, you know, I attended church for many years following that and that wasn’t something he would normally do. You know, if people would remain, he would probably try to catch up with them later maybe or have somebody else do some follow-up work. but I’m sure the Lord led him. And he came down and he talked to me and I told him I’d be very happy to talk to him. I was, of course, shy, but so he pulled me aside to a room and just very simply went through the gospel, the four points of the gospel, that we’re all sinners and that there’s a penalty for sin and Christ died for our sin. And that, you know, if we place our trust in him, that we can be saved. And so he led me in a prayer there and I knelt there with him and I prayed to receive Christ. And so, that was pretty much how it happened.

[Jay]

You were 19 at the time, and of course, Baptist theology is different from that of the Mennonite faith. Did you run into any issues with your parents when they found out about your conversion, or were they happy about it? How did that affect your family?

[Will Klassen]

So when I came to faith, it was, at that point, a little different for myself than it had been for some of my siblings, because some of them had come to be saved earlier on. already. And particularly, I think of my one brother, who’s 10 years older than I, when he first got saved, my parents actually, they had a lot of arguments with him. And especially because they would say, well, we all want to go to heaven, but we don’t know that till we pass on and we actually face God. And so he believed that we could know here in this life. And that created a lot of arguments. And so by the time that I got saved, they had kind of hashed through all of that already. And it’s not that they were at that point, I don’t think that they believed it, but they were more open to looking into it. And I think at that point, they had already started reading their Bibles more as well. And so the pastor that led me to the Lord, he became a friend of my father’s around that time, or maybe just a little bit after. And that was very helpful for him to start looking into his Bible, you know, my parents both. And so it was a transition time for them. So for myself, I didn’t really face a lot of opposition from my parents. Later on, more so when I decided to get baptized. But as far as going to the church there, they never really opposed my decision to do that.

[MCG]

How long have you been on the mission field and how long has the Lord known you?

[Will Klassen]

Well, I mean, we’ve been on the mission field here for 16 years. And so, I mean, the Lord has known me, I guess. I’m not sure exactly about that question. I’ve been saved for 30 years now, so from 19 to now I’m 49, so 30 years since I’ve been saved.

[MCG]

Cool. Well, the reason why we asked you that way is, of course, you know, depart from me, for I never knew you, when Jesus said, Lord, Lord, have we not? So… The important thing is not whether we know the Lord, but whether the Lord know us.

[Will Klassen]

Yeah, okay. Yeah, no, that’s good. And I appreciate that. And I sort of thought that that’s, you know, you were talking about my salvation, but it’s interesting that you say that because when I look back at my youth, you know, there are many times that I would pray because being raised in a religious home. I would come under conviction at times and I would do things that I thought would please the Lord. At one point, I even took some of my money and I burnt it as an offering to him, just trying to get favor with God. But obviously now knowing that those that are outside of Christ are at enmity with God. So yeah, so it’s been 30 years since I got saved.

[MCG]

Amen. Amen. Well, yeah, it’s interesting because if you think about it, I normally use the president or even the king, but if you know the king of England, it makes There’s no difference in your life, but if he knows you, you can probably walk into the palace.

[Will Klassen]

Absolutely. Amen.

[Jay]

You mentioned being on the mission field for so many years now. Where exactly are you in Mexico? And can you tell us about your particular area? It seems like generally Mexico, there’s many Catholics there, and it’s an open country where many missionaries go. Do you find that to be true for your specific area, south of El Paso, I think you said? Can you tell us more about the specific field that you’re on?

[Will Klassen]

Yeah, so we are 200 miles south of El Paso, Texas, so probably a lot of hearers won’t be very familiar with Mexican geography, but we are pretty much directly south, and our ministry is unique in that we are not ministering to national Mexican people. We are actually ministering to Mennonite people, and so this is a Mennonite settlement here. northern Mexico that has been in existence here for just over 100 years now. So in 1922 is when there was a large migration of Mennonites from southern Manitoba, Canada, into this part of Mexico, and they were granted a large tract of land by the Mexican government, exclusively for the purpose of, you know, farming the land, settling this area, which was, there was some settlement here, but very little. And so the Mennonites, they settled here, and my grandparents were with that group that came down down here. And then later my parents moved back to Canada. So as far as ministering in Mexico, this would be something very different from what most people would imagine because this is exclusively A Mennonite column. These are people like myself of European descent, German and Dutch origin. And they actually speak a language which is called Plautdietsch, which is, it is a dialect of German. And so that would be their mother tongue. Their instruction would be in High German. And that’s the way that they run their schools and their churches and so on. And so we don’t really integrate with the Mexican people much, because even though they conduct business with the Mennonites here, they… They don’t live here in the colony and they don’t integrate into the colony. So that way it’s a lot different than most people would envision as far as Mexican ministry. We obviously do reach out to Mexicans where we have opportunity. And so I haven’t even actually been in the other parts of Mexico a whole lot just because our ministry is here. So my travels in Mexico has been very minimal. And what I have seen though of life here in Mexico is that there is a lot of opportunity, like you said, it’s a very open country, very easy to come here. For myself, I didn’t need a visa, so I haven’t really looked into that part of it just because I was Mexican-born, so I’m a national here. I didn’t have any problem with that. I could answer some things about Mexico in general, but I’m not that very well-versed that part of it. I would have to be more specific to our area here.

[Jay]

Now, specific to your particular area, you mentioned that you’re reaching out to the Mennonite people. Are they all Mennonite or is there a breakdown? Let’s just pretend I’m a noob and I don’t know anything. Is there like some Mennonite, some Amish, some this, that or the other? Maybe there’s a few Catholic or is it all Mennonites that in your particular area? Is the religious breakdown homogenous?

[Will Klassen]

Yes, it would be all Mennonites. So there would be very, very few living here that would be not from this group. And so it’s a very interesting thing with the Mennonite history. Like Mennonite, of course, by this time, It’s a 500-year history, so at this time, Mennonite is a very broad term, but still the majority of them would be, depending on the location, would be very conservative in flavor. So the ones in Mexico and South America would mostly be very conservative, and some of them among them would be considered evangelical Mennonite, but most of them would be very religious conservative Mennonite. And so they haven’t changed that much over a period of many hundreds of years because Their philosophy is such that they keep themselves very separate from the world. And so the ones that have been, I guess if you would use the term fundamental, if that’d be the proper term, or the very traditional ones, anytime that they felt threatened in their way of life and in their belief system, they would seek another place to live. So that’s the reason why they came to Mexico in the 1st place, because in Canada in the 1920s, even though the Mennonites had been granted some privileges there when they migrated from Russia, in 1875, or was it 19, yeah, 1875, they were granted privileges by the Canadian government, which later was revoked. So those privileges were things like having German in their schools and things like that, and that they were supposed to, well, in the 1920s, they were supposed to integrate more into the Canadian culture. And I think it had to do with the, you know, First World War, these were German people and they were, you know, not learning English and different things like that. So they felt threatened by that. I don’t think it really was a threat, but they were looking for another place to live. And so they actually sent delegates to many different parts of the world, looking for some place where they could be remote. And northern Mexico was empty, uninhabited at the time. And so this is the place that they chose and moved here. And that pattern has been, recurring even unto this day. there’s still groups that are moving to places like Bolivia and South America, Uruguay, Argentina, Brazil, any place where they can find some place where there’s nobody living there. And they will carve out, you know, an existence in the middle of nowhere. And they’re very, very good at that kind of thing because they’re very industrious, very self-sufficient. And so that’s why they’re here. And so they’ve, on purpose, tried to keep themselves very separate. And for an outsider to come in here, they would be able to come into the community. But as far as integrating into the community, they may have a difficult time. Well, they would have a difficult time because first of all, it’s a language that only the Mennonites speak really. And then secondly, they don’t really want outsiders coming in. So As far as the Mexican people themselves that are like national Mexicans here, they would at times discourage and many times even disallow them from moving into the community and purchasing land here. So that’s a common thing around this area. So they don’t really want their culture and their belief system and everything to change. So for that reason, they keep themselves very exclusively Mennonite. And the reason we were able to come in here is because of my Mennonite background. So they didn’t really question us moving into the community until, they found, that my faith system was different than theirs. And that’s when there was some trouble that arose. But initially, they didn’t have any question until they found out, that we were doing mission work here and so on.

[MCG]

Yeah, we’re going to get into that. But I’m curious, how does their belief lined up or not line up with, if you should say, the independent funding? the mental Baptist belief.

[Will Klassen]

Okay, in many ways they would believe the same as far as, they have a doctrinal statement that they use to bring somebody into the church and then they have to go through that doctrinal statement. It’s in the form of questions and answers in a catechism. And when they’ve studied through that and assented to all those beliefs, then they’re allowed to be baptized into the church. And so if you read that statement, many of the things are very good as far as, they would basically believe the way we use, the account of creation and that God is a trinity and that Christ died on the cross. So all of these things are facts that they believe and they do hold the Bible as the word of God. But the biggest error that they make is in the doctrine of salvation. So of course, that’s the basis of everything. So they believe that, they have a different way of looking at things. You have to be careful when you speak with them because you’ll ask them, like, how does a person come to heaven? And they say, well, we can’t do anything. without Christ and that salvation is by grace. But what they mean by that is that God gives us grace in order to do the works that we need to merit heaven. with the grace of God, we can live a good life. And by living a good life, we will be accepted into heaven. So that’s the way they would look at it. And so as far as their belief system, Many people, they would look at the Mennonites, and people even said this to me, for example, when we were going to come down here as missionaries, they would say, well, why in the world would you go to the Mennonites? Because they’re all Christians, and that’s just not the truth. To be sure, there’s many Christians among them, but I would not say the majority of them, because I do a lot of visiting in the area here, and I talk to people, and for them to give a clear testimony of salvation is quite rare. And so as far as their belief system goes, I think it has made an evolution over the years where initially the founder of the Mennonite faith, his name was Mennel Simon, and he didn’t even really intend to begin a movement. He was just a strong leader that people followed, and they became known as Mennonites. And initially, you know, when you read his doctrines and his writings, he did a lot of writing. He sounds like a Baptist, you know, there wouldn’t really be much issue. But over the years, I think because they have gone more into traditionalism than that they have been open to reevaluating things that come up because they’ve been so stuck on traditions. You know, they would say, well, we’ve always had it this way, so we’re not going to make any changes. And that has caused them to go into darkness where the doctrine of the new birth, especially, like I mentioned earlier, is not something that they would really preach. It’s just… It’s a system of rules and do’s and don’ts. And hopefully you’re going to please God. So they wouldn’t really teach on the new birth. And there has been revivals among the Mennonites over the years. And I’ve done some reading about their history. But normally what would happen when there has been revivals is because of their unwillingness to change, those that would come to faith and they were excited about their faith and they wanted to see change in the church, they would be pretty much, I wouldn’t say cast out of the church, but there was enough opposition and unwillingness to fellowship that they would eventually say, there’s not enough communion here, we’re going to have to leave, and they would separate and they would start a new denomination. And so when you trace the history of Mennonite, you have many, many denominations now today, and you would be able to trace all of them back to… for one reason or another, they would be dissatisfied with the current state of the church, and then they would separate. And so the ones that have remained the traditional ones, the ones that I’m most familiar with, they would call themselves Old Colony. And I guess because they came from the original colony, some would call themselves Rhinelander because of the area that they originated from. And so that’s sort of the way they’ve done it. And so when people, if you want to define a Mennonite today, you would really have to look at two things. One would be the culture, and one would be the faith system. And they’re quite integrated, and yet they’re quite separate one from the other, because there’s many Mennonites, I would say they’re Mennonites. They would live like Mennonites because they have their own foods, they have their language, they have their customs and all of this, but they don’t really have, they wouldn’t really hold to the faith and especially not the faith of the original Mennonites. And then there were those that would be very religious, very conscientious Mennonites that would be faithful churchgoers and all of that. But I don’t know how much time I should take with this, but just so you understand a little bit, because it started off as a system that they had to teach their children and make sure their children would stay within the system. that it has become such a ritual. That’s the reason why many of them don’t have the new birth today. So they have their private schools where they have instructors that are out of their own colony, and that would be an instructor that would be chosen normally by the preachers or other leaders in the community. And so they would teach the children, and this is traditionally, some of the schools are changing now, but The traditional school system was teaching the children, first of all, to read and do basic arithmetic and write. And then they would begin instructing them in their doctrinal statement and then do some Bible study as well. They would go to school till age 12 and then they would have their education completed and they would go into the workforce after that.

[MCG]

Oh, wow.

[Will Klassen]

So with that education, you know, they would have basically just that background and that’s it. So that would ensure the parents that the children would not be influenced by another school where they would get different philosophies and so on. And then when they would come to adulthood, they would again go through that catechism, which is what they learned in school. And then by assenting to all of these doctrines, they would be brought into the church through baptism by pouring. And so a lot of them, they will look at that and they’ll say, okay, I went through all the things, I did all the stuff, and that’s my salvation. And because they’ve not been open to really study, then when they felt threatened, they’ve moved on, found a new place. So the people that have been less open to learn, they’ve removed themselves and the Lord has brought them into spiritual darkness because of it, because they’ve gone further and further and further away from the truth. in that they’re not even open really to listening a lot less than even they would have been previously. So especially today, you look at the ones that are very far removed, has actually many of them has become a very wicked people, very, very carnal and very, very wicked. And here’s the thing, because they’ve not been open to a good education system, the level of, what’s the word, their ability to read and write, It has gone down. It’s decreased over time. And especially because their instruction is in High German, but their mother tongue and daily language that they speak is in Plautich, they don’t have a good understanding of what they’re being instructed. So even if they were instructed with the truth, they would have a hard time understanding it. So that’s the problem with the system. Now, some of the people, to their credit, they have recognized the folly of that. And they have become more open to having something better for their children. So for that reason, these old schools in our area are going by the wayside. There’s few of them left now. And they have begun setting up better schools where they have a committee that runs the school. and where they have better teachers and where they’re learning other languages and learning to read better. And, you know, their literacy rate is definitely going up in our area. But my age group of people, I’m finding many in this area are pretty much illiterate. And so that’s also another reason why they’re not coming to faith, because they’re not understanding the preaching, even if the gospel was in the preaching. And when they read the scriptures, they’re not understanding it properly. And I have heard many testimonies of people that once they hear it in a language that they understand, that’s when they come to faith. And so that is a big problem. And like I said, many people have recognized it in the past already, and more of them are recognizing it now. So for that reason, this area is changing quite a bit, and it has changed in the last 16 years. And it’s changing for the good, and I’m very happy with that because if people are understanding and at least they’re able to, they’re able to study and read and come to faith that way. So unfortunately, those that are closed, they just remove themselves and they go deeper into darkness. And it’s a very, very hard thing to penetrate. And even for our area here, it’s very difficult because they would see themselves as being right and the people of God and Christian. And, if anybody is going to make it to heaven, they would be the ones. So they would see anybody on the outside as being what they would call, a direct translation would be a world person. So they say Veltmensch. And so they would say basically those are the people that are lost. And so, if you come to them with something different than what they have, they’re immediately on the defense because their preachers will even tell them, you know, don’t go and listen to a false prophet because he’s going to mislead you. And so you’ve got that, you know, standing in front of you. So in Mexico and South America, the whole, flavor of Mennonite would generally be quite conservative. There are some among them that are not. But in Canada and the US, from what I have encountered, would not be nearly as much that way. There, I think the majority of them would be a lot less conservative and a lot more open to talk and so on. But down here, it’s still very, very much conservative. So that gives you a bit of an idea, you know, how to define a Mennonite because People sometimes, they may have seen, especially Americans that have spoken to, their ideas that the Mennonites are kind of like the Amish, where they are the horse and buggy type and so on. And historically, the Mennonites were that way. And when they removed themselves, they are still. The ones in our area are no longer horse and buggy. They modernized the late 70s, early 80s is when, you know, they had a big fight in the churches and so on. And, you know, some of them wanted to bring in the electricity and some of them wanted to begin driving vehicles. and the church leaders were against it. So the church leaders left and the ones that stayed, they modernized. So that was in the days that my parents moved away because they were going through all of that trouble. And so they left because they wanted to live a modern lifestyle. So here in northern Mexico, I think the last colony that was living with horses and buggies was about 3 hours north of here. And they actually left that colony about two, three years ago because of the same dispute. So those are the last ones that were in our area here. If you wanted to see horse and buggy Mennonites now, I think you would have to go probably to southern Mexico in the peninsula. The Yucatan there, you would find horse and buggy colonies. And then in South America, there’d be a lot of them.

[MCG]

Oh, wow. I have a curious question here, going back to how they educate their children, because of course you’re in Mexico and if you ask any American and anyone who has their language in Mexico, they will say Spanish. And of course, you being born in the Mennonite family, you speak English because you’re in Canada and then you talk about high German and low German. And what language do they teach? I mean, what language do they learn to read in? Is it a combination of several languages? How does that work?

[Will Klassen]

Okay, so the The traditional school that they would have had for years and years and years, those are the ones they would have used High German exclusively, so they were not allowed to speak the mother tongue in school. But again, depending on which teacher they would have had, there would have been a difference between schools, because if you ended up with a good teacher, the children would have been educated fairly well. But if you ended up with a teacher that was not a good teacher, then not so well, or very poorly. And it is a fact that some schools, the teacher was placed there just because he needed a job. And so their system was such that they don’t live in towns, they live in villages. And there’s a whole bunch of villages in this colony. One village may have like maybe a couple of hundred families or something like that. And so every village would have a school. Unless it was a very, very small village, then they would go to the neighboring village. Every village would have a school and a church. And so in the school, on the schoolyard, they would have a house for the teacher to live in. And they would usually, traditionally, they would have a couple of cows there that he could milk and sell the milk, and that would be part of his income, and he could live in the house, and so he could live, really cheap. But that’s the old system, and, the world being what it is today, a modern world, you can’t get by without cash money, really, so that system doesn’t really work anymore. So that’s another of the reasons why, they’ve made some changes. But what happened in some cases was There was a teacher who was not qualified to teach, but they would have him as a teacher anyway because they didn’t really know what to do with him. So sometimes he was an immoral man, sometimes a man that had trouble with drinking and things like that. And I don’t want to make a broad brush stroke here. There’s many of them that were good, moral people and more conscientious teachers and that would teach the children well. But I find in my experience and with those people that I’ve talked to, that in the past, that would have been more so the case. So my parents’ generation, they had a much better education. My older siblings even had a much better education. My generation, you know, not so much. And then now, because of that, because many recognizing that it was really deteriorating, now they’ve made changes to where they’re becoming better again. And so that traditional system, in and of itself was not a bad system, according to their principles of teaching, because they did place a high priority on character. And so the children that would grow up in these systems were definitely very disciplined in many ways. and very independent, you know, when they left the school system at 12 or 13 years of age and entered the workforce, by the time they were 18 years old, they were adults, you know, they were able to support a family. And many of them did get married at that age. Wow. And of course, that’s changing now, you know, that it’s becoming more secular and modern. But the schools that they have now, these that are a little different. So again, I’m talking about the very traditional ones, they have made the schools that are better, where they are beginning to to learn Spanish, and at times even English, and they’re definitely more literate, and so on. So that’s their traditional group. And aside from that, there has been other denominations of Mennonites that have come into here over the years that this colony has been here. And these other denominations have set up their own schools. And those are a lot different than these traditional ones. They would be much more like an American or Canadian private school where they would have educated teachers. They would bring in a lot more different type of curriculum. They would learn Spanish fluently, English fluently, and they would also teach the High German well enough that the children understand that. But those schools are in the minority definitely around here as far as population goes. So it depends, you know, which particular denomination you’re talking about.

[Jay]

You mentioned how closed the society is that you’re a part of, how they don’t really mingle with the Mexicans and they don’t want their culture and their traditions and their faith to change or be influenced. So this would be a very hard or it would be a very difficult group of people to reach simply because of how closed off they are to outsiders, let’s call them. I’m sure they wouldn’t use that word. word, but to outsiders. How did the Lord work on your heart to go back and reach those people? You’ve been on the field for 16 years. You’ve seen all of these changes that you’re able to describe in detail how the schooling and these different things changed within that group. How did the Lord work on your heart to even go back and to witness to them and to live among them and to show them the light of the gospel?

[Will Klassen]

Well, the biggest reason, I guess, was because of the salvation. It boils down to that because when I got saved myself, I just started thinking like, why is it that I’ve been in church all my life and never been presented with the gospel clearly, even though I learned many Bible truths and so on. And so the church that I got saved in was a very soul-winning church. They would go in the community all the time and talk to people. And the community that I grew up in, in Canada, it was a Mennonite community that was the community that the ones that here in Mexico originated from. So many of them left in 1922, but many of them also remained. So that community was Mennonite community, but there was many different types of Mennonites. Some of them would be more evangelical than others, but there’s still many of them very traditional. But I found that as I went into the community and I talked to people, I found that they had the same experience that I had had, go to church all your life, try to do good. But never hearing the gospel. Many times couldn’t give a good testimony of salvation. So that burdened my heart. And that burden didn’t necessarily, I didn’t think about it that much at the time, even though I was burdened. But my assumption was studying for the ministry. My assumption was that I would just go somewhere in Canada and either pastor a church or help in a church or something like that. I hadn’t really planned on being a missionary. In fact, I didn’t really know anything about mission work because growing up in the church that I was in, like they never, ever spoke about missionaries. Mission work was something that was non-existent. So that was very new to me. But going to the college there, you know, again, we were very active in community outreach and soul winning and so on. And so I would go out and the Lord worked on my heart and I just could not get away from the fact that it is our responsibility to go into the world and preach the gospel. And I didn’t know where, but I thought the Lord will reveal that to me and I’ll just focus on the task at hand, completing my studies. And so during that time, we had a man in our church who was at that time the assistant pastor who had been a Mennonite pastor before he was in our church, and he had been removed from the pastorate there. because of preaching the pure gospel. And so he had to leave and eventually he ended up joining our church and he became the assistant pastor. And this was before I began going, but not much before. And so I kind of looked up to him because I felt a bit of a connection, you know, him having a Mennonite background and so on. But he was called of the Lord to come to the same area where we are now. And so he raised support to go, he and his wife. And he was not that young already at the time. I don’t remember how old he was, but probably in his mid-50s or close to 60, which is kind of unusual for somebody to go into the mission field. But he was just very, very fitted for the task. And so he prepared. came down here with his wife and he was here in Mexico for six months when he died suddenly of a brain aneurysm. Oh, wow. So his wife left the field and now there was kind of a hole that was left there. And that was very impactful to me, you know, just witnessing that because that was our church, you know, he was sent out of our church. And so I started thinking about that, about, well, maybe, you know, I should go down there and do what he did. And we had a missions conference at that time. I think it was right at that time, if I’m right. And the Lord really used that, the preaching in the conference and that event to start me thinking in that direction. And so I began praying about it and thinking about it and seeking counsel about that. And I also had a contact down here that I didn’t know very well, but he also was working somewhat with the Mennonite people here. And he had preached in our church in Canada a number of times. And so there I had gotten to know him a little bit. But the work that he was doing here, he also had Mennonite background. However, he was pastoring a Spanish church. And aside from that, also reaching out to Mennonite people. So I got in contact with him and he said that he would be willing to work together with me. So we came down here to do a survey. and just to see the area and think about the possibility of coming here. And we were able to work with him for a little bit, a short while that we were here maybe 5, six weeks. And so there really was just a lot of different things that kind of confirmed God’s direction for us to come here. And So I guess when determining the Lord’s will, there’s a number of things that I believe are biblical and also practical because we’re not waiting for a voice to come out of the sky to have direction from the Lord. So first of all, there were the general principles in the Word of God that we are all to be involved in the work of sharing the gospel. And it had been confirmed through the local church I was a part of that I did have the gift of preaching because when I would preach, it was something that I was able to rapidly grow in my ability and not just that, but in my, what should I say, comfort level, because I was a very introverted person. So that was something that was very different for me. And then also my pastor, of course, so the local church that I was a part of, they confirmed that and I was ordained and so on. So a lot of different things. I mean, really, in some ways, there’s no wrong place to share the gospel. So really, a person needs to determine a more specific position in place just through ways of council and opportunities and different things like that. And so this seemed like a good opportunity for us and my heart was in it. And the spiritual authorities that were in my life, they were for it. They were behind us. And so with prayer, there was really nothing that was holding us up. There was no reason why I could say we shouldn’t go and here, and this is what I wanted to do. So I had a burden, to reach these people because of their experience, being the same that I had. So I wanted to reach into the community with the gospel. And, not knowing a lot about what that would all include, I thought, because most of them have a very, very similar upbringing and background, they’re all taught the same, then the assumption is that, they’re going to need the gospel the same way that I needed it. So, and I’ve found that to be true. there’s been very many people here that I have, run into in my visitation time that are not clear on the gospel.

[MCG]

Yeah, that’s interesting. I have a question here that, so if someone is burdened for the Mennonite people, do they need to be Mennonite? to go to Mexico and preach to the Mennonite people. One of the reasons I ask the question is because I don’t know how much you follow the cultural issues in the US, but a lot of times a lot of the African Americans will not be very receptive to. Caucasian person going into a majority black area and tried to start a church. So maybe a black person would have a little bit more success. So even through that, they started something called Coba, a church that I know well, started a conference on evangelizing black America. And their goal as a black church, quote unquote, I don’t think there’s black and white churches, but as a predominantly black church, their goal was to take the gospel of Jesus Christ into the black community. and they say one of the goal is that because they’re black, black folks will be more receptive to them. Would you say that’s the same in the Mennonite community or can anybody come in and say, hey, you know what, I want to share the gospel with these people?

[Will Klassen]

I wouldn’t say that it would not work for others to come in here. If I look at, for example, you know, even the Mexican people surrounding us, so there’s many good churches among the Mexican people that are gospel preaching, you know, Baptist churches, and they are evangelizing and so on. And some of them have been effective in reaching Mennonites. even though the Mennonites are very separated in their social ties and in their families and so on, they would make friends with Mexican people. that is a common occasion out here. It happens through business and different things like that. However, I find that the cultural aspect is a very, very strong tie in, I think, in any culture, and I find that to be true here too. So even though they may not necessarily have something against a person personally, but I think it would be difficult for anybody to really integrate that is not Mennonite. There are some cases, you know, I’ve seen some Mexicans and also others, but I know of 1 particular case that I can think of, you know, somebody that was even a Caucasian American and they tried to integrate into the community and it really didn’t go that well. And it went both ways, from both sides. But I think because they are so very closed, and especially more the traditional ones, they wouldn’t be very open to it. Of course, the ones, that have been influenced through the North American culture, and of course that’s happening very quickly now, where, the whole culture of this area is changing very, very quickly. And some of the fastest growing churches that are, in the area are ones that are laying aside all of their traditional way of life basically and their beliefs. And they are very much adopting the modern mainstream culture that you would see in America and in Canada. So things are changing very quickly and for that reason, it would be… different now than it has been in the past. But again, if you would define which group of Mennonites you’re talking about, that would make a huge difference because the traditional ones here, that call themselves the old colony, they would still be very much closed to any outsider coming in. The ones that are the more modern, more secular, I don’t think they would really have much of a problem with it. So it would depend, which door you were knocking on, so to speak. But the majority of them here still are the traditional ones. So overall, they would have a bit of a difficult time, I think. But it’s not that it would be impossible. I mean, I think, you know, even just again, taking the example of the Mexican and Mennonite relationship as an example, you know, even just seeing that they’ve been here for 100 years and there still isn’t much Mexican integration, very little. So I think that would kind of speak for itself. I don’t know if they would look any differently on Americans or Canadians that were non-Mennonite, but I think culture does play a big role because they’re very, very family integrated. So they like to know where people are from and who they’re related to and so on and so on, and like to trace them back to, several generations and so on. And especially if they would marry, I think for the most part, their preference would be marrying somebody within their own community or of like faith anyways. There are others that have done otherwise, but Definitely not the majority. So as far as a missionary coming here, I wouldn’t say that I would discourage anybody from coming, but I think that they should be very aware of the issues and just be willing to work with it. I think the biggest thing they would need to do is develop trust. And I think that’s probably the case anywhere. If they could develop a relationship with people till the trust factor was built up, then I think that it would be possible. It would just take a little longer probably than somebody who is of that background.

[MCG]

All right. Would you say that there were any differences in culture between you and the people that you went to reach in Mexico? I know you grew up Man and I, so were there any difference in culture? Is there anything that you had to adjust to or learn coming from Canada going back to Mexico?

[Will Klassen]

I would say yes. And I’m actually finding more and more as time goes on how different the culture is that I came from to the culture that is here. And initially my thought was, well, because of having that background and especially being raised in a very conservative Mennonite home with the same type of church, even the doctrine and all that, it would be pretty much exactly the same. But when we moved here, there’s several things, I guess, that immediately set me apart from the community in general. One of them was the fact that, of course, our church was not a Mennonite church, it was a Baptist church. So that was one thing that already set us apart. And the doctrine, particularly the doctrine of baptism, you know, that we would hold to an immersion-only position. and that it needed to be baptism on the confession of faith. So, we would baptize some people that had come to faith after they had joined a Mennonite church, and they saw that as a second baptism and are very offended by that, and also believe that is means of losing salvation. So that immediately put us in a position where they were opposed to what we were doing. And then also the eternal security teaching that, you know, I believe in when you’re saved, you’re saved eternally, and that’s something they do not believe in. because of their belief system is a faith-based system. So if somebody says you can know that you’re saved eternally, they immediately assume that you say that you’re perfect, you know, that you’ve arrived perfection. So there’s a big misunderstanding there that needs to be clarified. So those were the doctrinal issues, you know, something that stood against us. But secondly, also our philosophy, just with family raising and our socialization, I guess. So again, depending on which group you’re talking about here, but the traditional ones, Normally, because they all belong to the same church, their young people would hang around in groups, and they would hang out just on the streets in the villages. And a lot of immoral activity takes place there, a lot of drinking, drug use, immorality, things like that. So there was no way I was going to allow my children to, intermingle with the young people other than we would visit with families and so on, where it was a secure setting where we could be assured that our children weren’t being influenced by, wicked lifestyles. So that was another thing. And that we homeschool our children, which is very uncommon here in the later years has become much more common, but that was something strange to people. So a lot of the things that we brought along with us was quite different from what anything that they were used to. And then just, the Canadian culture culture too. So it’s not that the people here are unfamiliar with it because there’s a lot of moving back and forth that’s taken place. But especially with the old colony, the traditional Mennonites, they would discourage that kind of thing just because they recognize that people that move away and come back have been influenced by other culture. And I can always notice that as well. So, you know, initially I thought, even though I was raised in Canadian culture, but raised in a traditional home, that I wouldn’t be that much different in culture, but I find that with the education that they’ve had, the people that have grown up here in the traditional system, with their education system and then in their churches and so on, that there really is, a fairly big difference in culture with the way our family would be and the way their families would be. So we have tried to integrate, but to varying success, like obviously, the people in our church and so on, like we’re welcome to them, we get together, we try to socialize as much as possible. Our church is a place of a lot of socialization. We have fellowship times after the services all the time, and we encourage people to get together with one another, and we do with our church families on a weekly basis and so on. So, I mean, we get along well with them, but I do find, like I said earlier, as time goes on more and more, because I see the differences, and sometimes I’ve had some questions about why some things are puzzling to me, or why some things aren’t working out the way I assumed that they would work out. And I realize to a large degree that it is culture, even though I do believe our people trust me, I mean, I’m their pastor, but yet I find that at times they feel more comfortable opening up to somebody that is exactly like they are in their upbringing and so on. So that has been something that at times has been difficult for me to accept, and I would like to have it otherwise. But I think, you know, I came to a kind of a realization a while back, maybe, I don’t know how long ago, maybe, within the last year or whatever, which is interesting because we’ve been here so long. But I think it had to do with our family growing up and so on, our children growing up, that when we came out here, my intention was to come here and I’m going to be just like everybody else. I’m going to be exactly like everybody else. Right. And I think the fact is that a missionary that goes to a foreign field actually needs to have a different view of them and their ministry in that They are there as a missionary, they are not a national. And there is a difference between the two. And I find that our people here, because they are nationals and they have grown up here and they know everybody in the area, They just relate on a different level than I can relate. The area that you grow up in, you have all the connections. You have the people that you went to school with, and you’re familiar with the culture and the language and the banks and the businesses and all of this kind of stuff. And you move to a foreign country, and it’s just different. And even though you try to learn and you eventually get to feel more at home there, but it’s never quite the same as the area that you grew up. And so I came to a point where I stopped trying to, I’m not even sure how I should say it, I kept trying to justify, that’s not really the right word, but I was always trying to make it sound like I was like everybody else. I was just like I had always been in the community and that we were right at home there and everything. But I didn’t purposely try to be misleading, but one day, or maybe it was through, you know, a period of time, you know, when I was doing some reflecting, I came to a point where I said, you know, that’s actually not true what I’m portraying of myself and my family because Even though we do like it here and we’re very happy to be ministering here, we believe we’re in God’s will and we wouldn’t want it any other way. But if I’d be honest, I would have to say that, no, I don’t really feel at home here, not if I would compare it to the country I grew up in. And there are many things that are difficult, like the language, the Spanish language. I still don’t speak fluently. So that makes it difficult. And our children, we are not going to change the culture in our home. just to try to integrate into the community better because we are what we are and we educate our children the way that we do. We have specific reason for why we are creating the environment in our home that we do. And I find that this is not an isolated case here as I’ve been doing some reading and speaking with other missionaries. There’s a thing that is called third culture kids. And I don’t know if you’ve heard about that, but children that grow up in a foreign field, they are actually a culture all on their own because they have their passport country and then they have their residing country and they don’t really fit into either one. Right. And so many times as they grow older, they don’t really feel very comfortable integrating into the country that they’ve been living in. So many times the children of missionaries actually move away and I always assumed our kids would grow up here and get married here, especially because, we had such a close background. But as they became adults, our first daughter, she moved to Canada, and our second daughter is moving to Canada. And to find that’s the case with many missionaries, and now would I prefer them here? Obviously I would, because they’d be close by. Am I opposed to them marrying somebody local? Definitely not. You know, there’s good people here, Christian people that love the Lord, but it just hasn’t happened that way. And I think part of it is due to culture, And so, I came to a point where I said, even to our people, I talked to them, and especially some of my key men and leaders in the church, I said, they needed to know something. And that was that I was not a home pastor in this church. I was a missionary pastor. And it would be much better for this church to have a national pastor, which obviously that’s the goal of every missionary, right? We just haven’t gotten to that point yet. So I said, you need to start thinking about it, that you are better off with a national pastor. And God has called me and my wife to this area, but he hasn’t called our children. God has a separate plan for our children, and it may be within this ministry, or it may not be. So I said, don’t be surprised if my children, as they get older, that they will leave this area and go back to the country that we came from. So I think it might change with time if God keeps us here. with the younger children because they’ve been born here and they are growing up here. So to them, this is their home country. But I think the area where you’re born in and grow up in, I think is very, very key in the formation of who you are. And I think a missionary needs to confront that and be honest with himself and honest with, you know, what his desires and wishes are. And all of that needs to be taken into consideration in God’s call in your life and in seeking counsel and looking at scripture and seeking to be effective for the Lord and to be fruitful, you know, in his harvest field. So it’s been a lot of learning and growing for us to be here. And I would say even more so in the last years than it was in the first years. So it’s been a very interesting experience.

[MCG]

Yeah, that’s interesting what you said because I was born and raised in the Caribbean and it’s different when I meet and speak to someone from my home country than when I speak to an American. And I can’t really explain it because I have good friends in my church and people that I love and care for. But the connection with my fellow, you know, Caribbean brother countrymen, it’s different, you know, maybe because you can speak your mother tongue if you want to put it that way or whatever the case may be. There’s some sort of connection there that you and this person are of the same stripe if you want to put it that way. And you can let all gods down or whatever. I don’t know what it is, but I can definitely understand. I don’t know if sympathize is the right word, but understand your sentiments there. All right, so I think I can guess the answer to this question, but I’m still going to ask anyway. Would you say the culture of the Mennonites maybe let’s say the traditional Mennonites, I would say definitely would be Acts chapter 2. But would you say the Mennonites may be more of Acts chapter 17 or both cultures, would you classify Acts chapter 2?

[Will Klassen]

Okay, so Acts chapter 2, I mean, I’m not sure if I’ll answer according to what you’re exactly after, but Acts chapter 2, so you had a bunch of people there that were, you know, it says Jews from all different parts of the world and there was a huge harvest of souls there. So they were people that I would take it already familiar with the scripture. And so Peter was able to preach to them. he didn’t have to begin from, scratch, so to speak. So that’s what we’re dealing with here. It’s not that the people here don’t have knowledge. A lot of them have knowledge, but it’s a matter of trying to break through their system, their preconceived, you know, belief system. So I’m trying to be sensitive and grow in that all the time. you don’t need to teach them about who Christ is and so on. The biggest thing, really the biggest, barrier, I guess, we’re talking about breaking through barriers, is for them really to come to a point where they, I guess, see themselves as a sinner, like if you would ask them, they would all readily agree that they’re sinners. I mean, that’s, they know that, but they still have hope that they’re going to, make it because they’re doing these good works. And so when I speak with them, I will really try to, I’m trying to learn how to do it better with my soul-winning efforts. And what I’ve tried to do in a later time, especially, is that if I find that there’s something that they have a conscience about, I’ll try to 0 in on that, because that’s, I think, something that the Lord will use, especially to bring them to a point of conviction. Because if it’s just general sin, well, I mean, yeah, we’re all sinners. You know, that’s kind of, you know, you can pretty easily admit to that. But if you’re still doing a lot of good things, So you think that, my good things are weighing the bad. So my challenge is to help them to understand that, okay, even though you’re doing good, but what about the debt that you have before God? If you think that your good deeds are erasing your bad deeds, well, then you’re just trying your best and you’re hoping that it’s going to work out. But if you realize all of a sudden that it doesn’t matter if you have good deeds or not, your bad deeds can’t be erased by that, that’s what I’m, I guess the thing I’m trying to help them understand the most. And they have difficulty understanding that just because they’ve been so.

[Jay]

What are some needs that, if they were filled, would make your task of sharing the gospel with this community easier?

[Will Klassen]

I think a tool that could be very helpful to me would be, you know, using media more. And it may sound strange because I’m talking about, you know, I’ve mentioned traditional Mennonites so much, but it’s a very strange contrast here in that, you know, If you look at appearances, if you were to drive through this community and you would go to the shopping stores, the grocery stores and the businesses and so on, you would find that the people here are dressed conservatively for the most part. they would conduct themselves conservatively and their churches are very conservative for the most part and so on. But yet, I find that in this day and age, a lot of them are consuming media and especially the younger people. So that’s why the culture here is changing very, very rapidly. And I think that’s an important thing. That could be a good tool for me to use. And I do We just stream our services and we use different media platforms. But I myself am not techno guy. My son is much better. He was helping me here with this getting set up. But I don’t know if that’s really a tool that you’re looking for, but that’s just something that came to mind that I think if I could, you know, just have some more help in that area or learn it better myself, that’s something that I think could be quite effective. Aside from that, really, I mean, people, they ask us more often, you know, what are things that you need as a missionary out on the field? And I mean, Really, I haven’t really found that over the years that have gone by that we really had a lot of needs, so to speak. Like there have been times where I’ve made an appeal to churches for different things, but for the most part, it hasn’t been like physical things that we’ve had much of a need of, like just prayer support, you know, is worth so much. The people pray for the people here. And aside from that, I don’t really know, like nothing really comes to mind. The people here themselves, they are very, very self-sufficient. It’s offensive to them if somebody wants to, in some cases, I should say, if somebody wants to give them a helping hand, and they are very proud that way, that they don’t need any help from anybody, and they’ve proven themselves to be very industrious and self-sufficient and so on and so on. There’s obviously some among them that are in need of charity and willing to accept charity, but overall the people they make do for themselves. So it’s not like some places where some fields, some missionaries work there and they would readily accept a lot of material aid, you know, clothing, food, financial help, whatever. That wouldn’t be the case here, at least not with our ministry.

[MCG]

Along that line, would you say there’s anything the church in the US or even in Canada? doing that make your tasks a little bit more difficult to reach the Mennonite people, especially thinking about since now they’re consuming more media, I’m assuming they’re consuming some of the, maybe the filth that are coming out of the US and Canada and maybe even Europe.

[Will Klassen]

Yeah, I think that’s the case. And that’s actually what I was going to say. I think more so than anything, it’s the culture, you know, really, in many ways, when I look at the Mennonite culture, the way it’s eroding, to me, it’s actually tragic, even though their belief system is wrong, many of them, but their way of life is actually actually good. Now, having said that, when you have religion without salvation, there’s a lot of things that go on that the outside world doesn’t see. And there are a lot of problems here, lots of problems here that people don’t see unless you know people and are in the community and so on. And the reason is because, I mean, without salvation, you’re going to walk in the flesh and the works of the flesh will manifest themselves. So there’s all of those problems. But aside from that, they have a very good work ethic. They work hard. By and large, you know, most of them, the common ones, they would be honest. There’s those among them, obviously, that are not, and some in a big way. But by and large, you know, you’d find them to be good people to live with. You know, it’s a very good community to live in. I’m thankful that we can live here. You know, for the most part, a very safe community. You know, we don’t worry about theft and we don’t worry about, muggings on the street, that kind of thing. So overall, it’s a very good community to live in. And I’m very thankful for that. So there’s a lot of good things. And even their school system, like I said earlier, the traditional school system, if they are applying themselves to learn those things that they are learning, aside from the doctrinal error, you know, I’m not opposed to the principles that they stand for. I think many of them are good. And so when I look at that, and the fruit that comes out of it, just to give you a basic example, like the area we live in here is very wealthy, so it’s much, much different here than it would be in the rest of Mexico. The wages are higher, the standard of living is much higher. It looks… a lot more here like it would in America or Canada than it would in other parts of Mexico. So there’s a big, big difference there. And the reason is because of their work ethic and because Mexico allows free market, economics and so on, so they can work hard, they can make a lot of money, and they do make a lot of money, a lot of money. there’s many, many millionaires that live here in this area. They’re multi-millionaires. So there’s a lot of money here. And they employ thousands and thousands of Mexicans here on their farms and in their businesses and so on and so on. And so they’ve really done a lot. in 100 years in this area. And I see it all the time where there’s guys that have grown up on a farm and they’ve had to scratch out a living and learn to make do, learn how to fix things and troubleshoot and do all of this stuff. And it helps them practically on the farm, but those same principles help them through all of life and they become adults and they go into whatever field of work they’re in and they excel. There’s many businessmen here. that run large businesses and they make millions of dollars and they themselves are illiterate, so. wow. It’s really quite an irony, They’re very intelligent people, very hardworking people. And I don’t want to say, that they’re all uneducated. There’s a lot of them that are educated well, but there’s also very many that are not. So it depends a lot on, which particular sect of Mennonite you’re talking about in this area. So we would have, just to clarify, we would have probably now about, well, when we moved here, I would say there would be probably about four or five main. denominations of Mennonites, with the majority of them being the old colony. But since the time we’ve been here, there’s been a lot of different ones that have sprung up. And so we have those that would be Calvinists. We have those that would be just like the megachurch, modern. rock and roll church type. And there would be the several different types of more conservative, but not the most conservative Mennonites. And so I would say right now there’s probably about 10 or 12 different ones that you could point out, you know, just like that. So they’ve really diversified in their way of living and also in their belief system. We also have Jehovah’s Witnesses here now that have integrated into the Mennonites. And the Mormons are working here as well. They don’t live within the communities, but they are proselytizing people from the community. So it’s really changing a lot. And I would say in, all of Mexico, that this area is the most diverse. And the reason is probably because it’s the oldest colony. And there’s the most activity here. There’s a lot of trade going on between Mexico and the US, like this particular area and the US. So there’s been a lot of influence that way. And so that’s also helped to change things a lot. People move back and forth A lot. There’s a lot of businesses that are partnership with US businesses and things like that.

[MCG]

Yeah, you should have told me that a couple of years ago so I can tell my mom I can become a millionaire without going to college. Yeah, exactly.

[Will Klassen]

Move over here. I know. Yep, for sure.

[MCG]

All right, brother Will. Well, you’re listening to the Removing Paris podcast. We’re sitting down with brother Will. He’s a missionary to the Mennonites in Mexico. We’ll be right back.

[Jay]

Are you looking for a consistent and reliable place to get all your Christian materials? Try ChristianBook.com. Started from humble beginnings in 1978, ChristianBook.com now offers a wide range of books, CDs, DVDs, homeschooling, and church supplies, plus more. So whether you are a parent, a homeschooler, a pastor, or a layperson, ChristianBook.com can be a one-stop shop for all your needs. Click the link in the description section below and check out the vast array of Christian materials ChristianBook.com has to offer.

[MCG]

All right, brother Will, let’s go into a little bit of fun section and find out some of your favorites. Let’s start with your favorite scripture verse.

[Will Klassen]

Okay, let me see here. My favorite scripture verse would be 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy rather, chapter 1, verse 9, which says, who has saved us and called us within holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.

[MCG]

Amen.

[Jay]

Amen. What is your favorite Bible history?

[Will Klassen]

My favorite Bible history would be probably the story of David. I love to read the story of David, so that’s always very fascinating for me to read through that.

[Jay]

He’s a popular one.

[MCG]

What about the most convicting scripture passage of verse 2?

[Will Klassen]

I would say probably Revelation chapter 12, 11, and I’ll just read it to you real quick. So that says, and they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they loved not their lives unto the death. So when I read that, I always think that’s certainly a testimony of those that gave the ultimate sacrifice in that they were completely surrendered to the Lord. So that’s always, you know, something that’s convicting to me when I think about surrender.

[Jay]

What is the most comforting scripture verse for you?

[Will Klassen]

That would be Hebrews chapter 1 and verse number 3, which says, who being the brightness of his glory and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the majesty on high. And the reason being just, of course, the comfort of Christ purging us from our sins. And then, you know, the picture of him sitting down that the work of salvation is finished. So I love that verse of scripture. Yeah, I know.

[MCG]

What about your favorite hymn of the faith? And we won’t ask you to sing it.

[Will Klassen]

Okay, yeah, don’t ask me to sing it, please. Haven of rest would be one. So I have many, I guess, but this is one that came to mind probably. immediately. So Haven of Rest would be one of my favorites.

[MCG]

Yeah, that’s a beautiful one.

[Will Klassen]

Yeah.

[Jay]

Who is your favorite giant of the faith in the scriptures?

[Will Klassen]

Okay, I would probably say Jonathan, the son of Saul and the friend of David. And the reason being because I so much admire, you know, his humility in being willing to take the place that he did and yet exercising great faith. You know, when he would battle the Philistines, he trusted in God. He had amazing courage in those instances. And then he was yet loyal to his father and to his friend and completely honest. So I’m amazed when I look at his character, the type of man he was, and I don’t think that he gets the limelight that he should. A wonderful man and not that much is said about him.

[MCG]

Yeah, that’s true. I can’t remember any one truth in Jonathan.

[Jay]

Yeah, this is the first one. Yeah, for sure.

[MCG]

All right, so I think I can guess a lot of the barriers that are preventing the Mennonite people from coming to salvation, but I’m going to let you say what they are. Early on, you said that there are a lot of issues or maybe we should just say barriers between the fact that what they believe, what you believe, whether they would be accepting of outsiders or not, and stuff like that. So why don’t you dive deeper into it and still, what are some of the barriers that you will say that are preventing the folk from seeing the cross clearly?

[Will Klassen]

Yeah, I would say spiritual pride. So they, like I said earlier, they have 500 years of Mennonite history being very, very isolated from anything that’s not Mennonite. And so always when people have tried to come in from the outside, they have resisted. And of course, there’s always been some that have been able to be one with the gospel. And there’s even some that movements that have started within Mennonites that have also been gospel preaching. But the overall movement, the conservative, traditional movement has been opposed to any type of change. And so the barrier is that they look to their tradition and are confident that they have been in the right tradition for many generations now. And so a common saying would be, this is the way we’ve always done it. We don’t need to change. We don’t want to change. And if you’re trying to get me to change, you know, you’re bringing something to me that is false and that is wrong. And so that would be a huge thing, you know, because they have their paradigm. And so when you come to them with anything else, the immediate distrust, and so it’s difficult to get through that. So sometimes, you know, I mean, there’s different people that have had different levels of success in the way that they have approached them in evangelism. I’ve talked to many different people. Some of them have been… very bold and they have been able to win people that way. Others that have been bold have had very little success and they’ve had more success with winning friendships and prayer and love. So, I mean, I guess every case is different and one has to just be sensitive to how God would use one and study and pray and seek, you know, the best way to do it. So I think that today, with modern technology, that is something that God has really been able to use to reach a lot of them, because they will not openly listen to somebody, but they will listen to an audio preaching message or… watch a sermon on YouTube, different things like that. So there’s been people that have, where those barriers have been broken down over time, they’ve been eroded through those means. And sometimes it takes years. You know, we’ve got a guy in our church, for example, I did not lead him to the Lord. He got led to the Lord in a country he lived in previously in Bolivia, where he was a very, very traditional horse and buggy type of Mennonite. And it was a very, very closed community. And anybody there that left the community, they were ostracized and even persecuted if they would try to come back or whatever, unless they wanted to embrace the system again. So he listened to different types of preaching, not that he himself was actively engaging in that, but through other people and radio ministry and different things for years before he finally came to a point where he accepted Christ and he even knew, for a long time that he was lost before he finally got saved. And so he understood the gospel and all of this before he finally accepted it. So testimonies that have heard of people that have gotten saved through media and listening to messages and reading something that they can understand are many. So there’s also many that, you know, people that have just kept witnessing and kept witnessing. In many cases, it is through family members and friends, people that have gotten saved somehow, and then they start working on their family members and friends. So there’s a much greater open door in a case like that, I believe. And often, initially, there’s a lot of opposition. And some of them, they get persecuted, you know, for a stand of faith that they’ve taken, but they just stick with it and eventually they’re won over it. And I will say this though, like I know many Mennonite people, like we have some in our church, but even those outside of our church that have come to know the Lord, and they really love the Lord, they’re very, very thankful that they’ve been able to come to faith, and know that they are saved. Because if you can imagine, being in a system where you’re always afraid to die because you’re never assured that you’re gonna be in heaven. And with the level of discipline that many of them are under, they have a wrong view of authority and especially God’s authority. And so never being assured of heaven and yet always seeking to attain it, but living with that uncertainty day after day. And when they come to that assurance, they’re just extremely thankful, and many of them, they go on to… win a lot of people to the Lord. So it sounds like I’m contradicting myself here because, I made it sound earlier like there wasn’t that much, fruit here. And percentage wise, that would be true, but the ones that I do know, that have gotten saved, there’s a big change in their life a lot of the time. So that’s very encouraging to see. And some of them in our church and then there’s others in the community that are friends of myself personally and our church as well that will attend occasionally. But one thing that I find with the Mennonite people where they get hung up many times is that, and many times it’s a lack of teaching, but sometimes it’s also just because the community is so closed and very tight-knit that even if they come to a better position where they get saved and they start to learn the Bible, they’re not always necessarily willing to leave their churches because of family ties and just fear of man and different reasons like that. So I find that when they move to different countries like the US and Canada, they’re a lot more open to going to different churches and gospel preaching churches and so on. And you mentioned earlier about, just coming back to the culture aspect again, I do find here that those that have lived in Canada or the US and have returned to this community are definitely a lot more open for the most part to talk. So I always notice that immediately.

[MCG]

Yeah. So let’s imagine there’s a Mennonite that who happened to stumble on this particular episode of our podcast. How would you tell them that their barriers can be removed? How can those barriers be removed?

[Will Klassen]

Okay, I think the biggest thing, probably the biggest or the most important issue here is the issue of authority. So if a person is willing to just take the scripture and look at what the Bible says without a preconceived idea of what the truth is, Really, that’s where the issue lies.

[MCG]

Right.

[Will Klassen]

Because the Mennonite churches, they would all use a Bible. They would all say that the Bible is the word of God. But when it comes right down to it, as far as making a decision in the church or in their personal lives, many times they will stumble because they look at their tradition and they may even acknowledge that the Bible says that they will refuse to make the change. So if they would just be willing to be open to what the scripture says, and commit to obeying the gospel, I think that’s where the success would lie. Because, like I said earlier, again, many of them are so traditional that they are not even open to looking at what the scripture would say.

[MCG]

Yeah. The scripture that come to mind would be Matthew 15, verse 9, teaching for doctrine the commands of men.

[Will Klassen]

Yes. Yeah. And in many ways, I think, you know, the Pharisees and the Mennonites would be the same. And I think you could look at any religious group and say that would be the case there because they look at their traditions and they elevate them above what the scripture teaches. And so that’s really a stumbling block.

[MCG]

Yeah. Our brother Will is indeed a pleasure. Thank you for joining us on the Removing Barriers podcast.

[Will Klassen]

Thank you.

[Jay]

Thank you so much for listening to the Removing Barriers podcast. Make sure to rate us everywhere you listen to podcasts, including Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or Stitcher. Removing Barriers, a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

Thank you for listening. To get a hold of us, to support this podcast, or to learn more about Removing Barriers, to removingbarriers.net. This has been the Removing Barriers podcast. We attempted to remove barriers so that we all can have a clear view of the cross.