Episode 198

In this installment of the On the Mission Field series, we interview the O’Briens to Ukraine. John and his wife Cathy have dedicated their lives to reaching the lost souls of eastern Ukraine. Despite the horrors following the 2022 invasion and at great personal cost, they refused to leave, continuing to provide help, comfort, supplies, and the gospel to the people of the region. Understandably, most missionaries have fled. With so many lives lost, so many homes destroyed, and so many families bereft of hope and security, people are now more open to spiritual truth. John and Cathy stand in the gap, serving the Lord and being the vessels through whom God continues to shower grace on the Ukrainians. Additionally, their ministries to the deaf and to military servicemembers are thriving amidst the chaos. Though they did not initially set out to minister to these people groups, God equipped and commissioned them for it. You won’t want to miss their incredible testimony of God’s work in their lives, and in the lives of the souls God wants to save through their ministries.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Because you’re dealing with people that have lost everything. You know their apartments been blown to pieces, their relatives been blown to pieces. Every single Ukraine statistically has already lost a direct relative, not a second or third cousin. We’re talking someone in an immediate family.

[MCG and Jay]

Hmm.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

And so they’re extremely aware of eternity.

[Jay]

Thank you for tuning in to the Removing Barriers podcast. I’m Jay and I’m MCG and we’re attempting to remove barriers so we can all have a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

This is episode 198 of the removing various podcast and this is the 21st in the series of on the mission field. And in this episode, we’ll be going on the mission field with missionary John and Kathy O’Brien to Ukraine.

John, Cathy, it is indeed a pleasure and welcome to the Removing Barriers podcasts.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Well, thank you so much. It is an honor and a privilege to be able to join your podcast and to talk about removing barriers about the gospel and specifically the ministry work that God’s given us over in Ukraine.

[MCG]

Yeah, definitely. And this is a first for us. Usually we interview you the husband, but we have Kathy with us. So, Cathy, a special welcome to you.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

Thank you so very much. I really appreciate the invitation and. I’m a little nervous about it, but I just pray the Lord be glorified and all that is said and done.

[Jay]

Amen.

[MCG]

All right. Well, why don’t we jump into it? Tell us. Tell us about yourself. You’re calling whatever you feel comfortable sharing with the Internet.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Sure. Well, my name is brother John O’Brien, and this is my wife Kathy. And we’ve been serving as church planting missionaries over in eastern Ukraine for over 26 years.

[MCG]

So wow.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

We have four children, so we went over and pioneered eastern Ukraine back in the 90s and brought the gospel. Into the second largest city in all of Ukraine, the city of Hataka. At that time, a city of almost two and a half million people. And. God has done great things, amazing things, incredible things. We did not go as missionaries to the deaf, but we ended up having the second largest deaf ministry in all of Ukraine. We do not go as missionaries to the. Prisons that God has given us a phenomenal ministry in the Ukrainian prison system, I did not go as a missionary to the military, but the past 10 years with the war with Russia, I served officially in Ukrainian armed forces as a military chaplain. So it’s a varied, expansive and. Real busy ministry that quite complicated. Now these past three years because of the full scale invasion by Russia into eastern Ukraine, which is right in my. Backyard.

[MCG]

Oh wow. Amazing. Wow.

[Jay]

Can you tell us a little more about your personal testimony? How long has the Lord known the both of you?

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Sure. Well, I’ll let Kathy start there because hers is lovely.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

I receive Jesus Christ as my savior when I was 8 years old and it was crystal clear to me as an 8 year old that there was nothing I could do to save myself. I had come to the end. And all of a sudden, the cross was so beautiful, I realized why Jesus had to die in that cross for me and I accepted him as my savior that day. And then when I was 17 years old, I heard my first. Missionary. And I surrendered my life. I never, never imagined I would be a missionary to Ukraine. For Russian and speaking people, and I kind of bartered with God, I was afraid that he would send me somewhere I’d have. To eat bugs. So I told that I will go anywhere. Just please don’t make me go or have to eat bugs. I’ll even go to Russia. Is what I told God. And then of course, we’ve got some. They’re places because I said that word. Is that why you said this here? But I think he was just preparing my heart.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

I did not grow up in a Christian home at all. I had no idea about Christianity. I had never met a Christian our family for generations and for centuries has been Irish Catholic and I’d never met a Christian. No one ever invited me to a youth group. Growing up, I was never invited to church. My doors never knocked on and no invitations ever given.

[MCG]

Hmm.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

And so it was not until I was in college when I first came into contact with the gospel. And it was at the end of my freshman year in college, the summer of 1986, when a retired missionary led me to the Lord on the 5th of June on a Thursday night in 19186.

[MCG]

Amen.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

And so the Lord immediately began working in my life. I was a Russian studies major in college before my salvation, and so 86, the Soviet Union and the pastor asked me, why did God save you? And I did not know why God would say. Me and he said, well, ask God, ask God why he saved you and not the next person type of the thing. And so I began to pray about it and it became very clear that that that God was working my heart to take the gospel to the Soviet Union.

[MCG]

Ohh wow, no. We’re gonna get back to Ukraine, but I’m curious, how did this love story begin? How did you guys meet? How long you’ve been married? Stuff like. That.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Sure. Well. In that little church that was started by that retired missionary, he planted a new church in Tucson, AZ, which is where I was going to college, and she had already gone to college. She was a nurse at that time, attending that little church. And so she heard about this guy. So she’s praying about this guy’s salvation. That was, that was the request, was to pray for this hooligan that God might save him.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

And when God did save me, then our past did cross and we’ve.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

He didn’t have a choice when I saw him getting baptized, I saw how genuine his heart, his love was that he’s not playing church like most of the guys our. Age were.

[MCG]

Hmm.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

He really knows my God and I saw him get baptized and he came up out of the water and gave his stepfather a great big hug. It was so tender and so. Just precious and stick me with the fork. I was done. That was the guy I was gonna. Marry.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

So. By God’s grace two years ago we were married and we just last month celebrated 37 years together.

[MCG]

Amen. Amen. All right.

[Jay]

Incredible. Incredible.

[MCG]

Well, let’s get back to Ukraine. I could ask more questions, but let’s get. Back to Ukraine, yes. Sir, alright. So I think maybe what, three years? Four years ago, if you ask someone.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Yes.

[MCG]

Where is Ukraine? I think they will probably have a difficult time finding it, but today they probably can.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Sure.

[MCG]

Find it with the eyes closed so, but I’m still gonna ask the where in the world is Ukraine? If someone have never heard for some reason we’re Ukrainian, where would they find it?

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Sure, sure. Most Americans think that Ukraine is part of Russia. Somewhere in Russia is how they understand their Ukraine is a sovereign, independent nation. It’s the second largest nation in all of Europe and it is nestled between what we call Western. And Russia? And so Ukraine’s right in the middle, it is tucked and classified as Eastern Europe, but it’s the size of the American state of Texas. And there used to be about 53 million people in the country. And so it’s a large country by European standards, A heavily populated country by European standards. So. Right. Between Europe and right between Russia is this large landmass that’s called Ukraine.

[Jay]

Can you tell us a little bit more about Ukraine in terms of? Say the capital city and the people groups. I’m sure that there are different ethnicities or different people groups. Could you help us understand that a little more and perhaps that will help us understand some of the things happening and the people that you’re ministering to there?

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Sure. Sure, Ukraine is like all of Eastern Europe. Ukraine is Russian or Ukrainian Orthodox, which should be historically the grand. Daughter of Roman Catholicism. Ukraine is ethnically and culturally split east to West, between Ukrainians in the western half and ethnic Russian and Russian speaking Ukrainians in the eastern and southern part down into.

[MCG]

OK.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Crimea before the war began in 2014, Crimea was being repopulated by the once displaced ethnic people called the Crimean Tartars that are a Middle Eastern Arabic Muslim religion down in Crimea at that time, Russia. Since disseminated them again, yeah, this is twice in the same.

[Jay]

Right.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Century.

[MCG]

Well.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

But ethnically Ukraine, you know, like I said, culture, language and ethnicity is split between East and West with the capital of Kiev, right in the middle of the country, about the same size of Chicago, over 6 million people there before the war. A bright, vibrant, highly European, highly modernized cap. And but Ukraine is an agrian nation, it is extremely poor nation. When we first went there in the 90’s, the daily wage was 75 US cents a day, and today the daily wage is.

[MCG]

Ohh wow.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Umm. Not at all. $10.10 U.S. dollars a day at all.

[MCG]

Ohh wow.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Yeah. So it’s still highly impoverished, very challenged in most aspects. It’s considered a third world. But culturally, whether it’s Western or whether it’s eastern Ukraine, where we work, Ukrainian people are some of the most beautiful. Some of those fantastic people on planet Earth.

[MCG]

Yeah, definitely.

[Jay]

If I could ask just a quick question, the separation or at least the demarcation between Eastern Europe and Western Europe is that geographical or was there some type of historical event that happened that separated the two kind of like East Germany, West Germany type of thing? Is it geographical or is it historical? What’s happened there both, OK.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Both both. Yeah. Actually the word Ukraine is 2 Russian words ukraina and putting together it’s Ukraina. So Ukraina means on the frontier or on the border. And so for centuries, Imperial Russia, with the Czars Imperial Russia, has kept this large land mass as a buffer between them and what they consider the heathen hordes of Western Europe. And so for centuries.

[Jay]

OK.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

This land mass between Europe as it goes this way and Russia. There’s always been that buffer that Corrina, between Europe and between Russia.

[MCG]

They they don’t know that. Alright, so Kathy, I know you tell us a little bit when the Lord kind of first burden your heart for Russia and Ukraine. How about you, John? When was your heart first burden and how did they come together for both of you?

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Well, when we first met, you know, I asked her, you know, you’re a nurse, you know, what do you plan on doing with your life? You want to be a doctor, whatever. And she said no, I surrendered to go be a missionary, which I thought was ludicrous. I thought it was like. Crazy. You know, why would you go do that? You have all this education, you know, there’s so much need here in America. Help Americans. Just like. No, no, no. I surrender to go like to Africa. I want to go someplace to, you know, be a nurse and things like that. And for me, that was just an abstract idea. That was something that is extremely difficult to get hold of. But because I was a Russian studies. Major in college, I have been my entire life fascinated with the Soviet Union with the Russian culture, with the Russian language, and so learning the culture, learning the language, all of my professors and college were from the Soviet Union, so when I became saved, you know, it didn’t take but. A few weeks and God was already working in my heart about taking the gospel to the Soviet Union, and I did not surrender, though I knew of a certainty that God wanted me to go, I tried to be Jonah. I tried out some the whale and found out you cannot outswim the whale.

[MCG]

All right.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

And so, once you graduate from Yale University, you’re not going to go back for both grad work. You you’re done. You’re surrendered. And so we did surrender after the birth of our fourth child. And that was in 93. And so we surrendered and I went to the Bible school and we did mission training. We’d had a very short period of deputation, and we’ve been in Ukraine, by God’s grace ever since.

[MCG]

And.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

And that’s for me. I don’t see Ukrainian souls and I don’t see Russian souls, and I don’t see American souls. I see souls. And that’s what I told the Lord. Any soul. It doesn’t matter where. I just want to tell souls about my savior. And when I believe the Lord would direct us from my husband. And so I didn’t really do research or anything. I just trusted a board. To lead me through my husband to where we were going. And when we came to Ukraine, you just fall in love. Especially with the deaf whom I work with. They’re just. Oh, God bonds your heart to him. He gives you a love in your heart not because they’re Ukrainian, but because there’s someone that you get to watch them learn about Christ and you get to see. The conviction come in their life and struggles and they get saved and it just makes you fall in love with them. And so they’re just so precious there. I my hearts there. God melts your heart there. And that’s where my heart. It’s.

[Jay]

If I may say, Miss Cathy, I hope that you can say that out loud one more time for the people in the back when you said that you trusted God to lead you through your husband, there’s this. I don’t know if you noticed, but the feminism in our country and in our world today is ranked and women just don’t talk or think.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

Absolutely.

[Jay]

Like that anymore, and it’s almost taboo and just awful to say something. What? Or don’t you have a mind of your own and and yet this is how God has established for things to be. This is his perfect way. We always talk about that God’s way is perfect and. They. I don’t know. It blessed my heart to hear you actually say that, because that’s actually not common even in Christian circles. Interestingly, you don’t really hear women talk like that and praise the Lord, and it also shows just how much of A work God has done in your heart, how you look at how you’re talking about them, and how it’s obvious that you love them and you want to reach out to them and you’ve submitted to God’s.

[Jay]

Plan and purpose for you in the way that he wants us to be submitted to him. I think that. Just beautiful and I praise the Lord for it.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

I think it’s an honor and a privilege to be a woman, so I don’t feel like I am competing with my husband and if I can say when he has to get in a frozen cold water to baptize, I stand on a nice warm beach. Thank you. God. Thank you. Cause I hate cold water.

[MCG]

I hear you know 1.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Yeah, you’ve never baptized. You’ve been in Ukrainian water. That’s like.

[Jay]

That’s some dedication right there. Getting baptized in that water.

[MCG]

Ohh wow.

What are some things that folks should keep in mind if they feel called to serve the Lord in Ukraine, especially now with?

[Jay]

Oh yeah.

[MCG]

With the war that’s going on.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Right. Well, First off, before the war, we had about 35 independent Baptist missionaries of different flavors and kinds and sorts. Now we have 3. Oh, wow. OK. And the last remaining on the eastern side, which is where the actual war is. And then there’s a good brother down in the city of ADESA on the Black Sea. And then my son-in-law and oldest daughter work with the refugees in far western Ukraine over 1000 miles away from the.

[MCG]

Mm-hmm.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

More and so for people to consider coming now because we challenge folks, we invite people to come as volunteers to help out for short term or extended term, missing trips and things like that right now and now as well as when the war ends, whenever that might be two weeks, two months, two years, 2 decades, it will truly be. I’m convinced the greatest gospel opportunity that we have seen on planet Earth since World War 2.

[Jay]

Ohh wow.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

When Japan opened up entirely and begged for the gospel to come, there are few places on Earth right now where the civilian population are so aware. Of the brevity of life, the reality of death. So if someone is considering coming to Ukraine unless they’re a single male missionary, for example, if it’s a family, then they’re going to be going to western Ukraine and working with the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of refugees, just like our daughter and son in law’s doing. And that’s where I have Kathy in a safe house out there as well. Staying safe from the war. And so there are specific challenges to that because you’re dealing with people that have lost everything. You know their apartments been blown to pieces. Their relatives been blown to pieces. Every single Ukraine statistically has already lost a direct relative, not a second or third cousin. We’re talking someone in an immediate family.

[Jay]

Hmm.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

And so they’re extremely aware of eternity. And so they’re open like they’ve never been open. And we’ve been over 1/4 of a century. So we have seen the transformation of Ukraine and unfortunately, you know, this war has brought them to this place to where if you’re going to come to Ukraine as a. Be prepared to be engaged with people that are extremely traumatized, that are broken mentally, that are broken emotionally, that are bankrupt spiritually, and it’s a lot more than approaching someone giving him a food bag and saying, do you want to pray and ask Jesus into your heart?

[Jay]

Hmm.

[MCG]

Mm-hmm.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Way beyond. Yeah.

[MCG]

Wow, I have so many questions, so I’m going to pack here for a little bit, take a deep breath. Firstly, what made you stay right? I’ve met missionaries. Of course. We don’t want to elevate missionaries to as superheroes, but I’ve met missionaries who have told me personally that, hey, I’m in the US.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Yes, Sir.

[MCG]

Cause of the war and they may have been in Russia. They may have been in Belarus. They might have been in Ukraine. And then I look at you and your wife and I look at you mentioned other brother, you know that. So which we know personally as well.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Right.

[MCG]

And I look, I say, why is it that these folks stay? So let me ask you, because this is a question that kind of blew my mind because I can’t fault anybody who has a family or maybe not even have a family. And they say, ohh, war, I can go to the US where I’m safe. Why should I stay here? Why did you and your lovely wife and your family with your daughter? Stayed.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

I don’t think there’s a real easy answer to that because again, you know, the Bible tells me you know, who am I to judge another man’s servant. And so the reasons why some men would and have in fact left is something that they will ultimately give an answer to God as I will give an answer to God for everything that we do. I stayed because I’m Irish. Too stupidly so for me, the thought never crossed my mind to leave. The only thing that crossed my mind was to get my daughter my grandbabies and my wife to a safe place, away from direct contact and continue. Minister. And that’s what they’ve been doing for the past three years is just that and I stay on the Eastern front because our church is 29 miles from the Russian border. It’s 22 miles from the direct contact line between Ukrainian international and Russian terrorists. And I work on 2 forward operating bases as military. Kaplan, I teach tactical combat casualty care to the police as well as to the Ukrainian international. Versus we are busier than the one our paper hanger and we are the little Dutch boy and we don’t have enough fingers to all the holes in the ****. And for me, what drives us today to continue to stay in Ukraine and continue to work the gospel is what brought us to Ukraine in the very, very, very beginning. It’s one simple. True. Is Christ Jesus worthy to be glorified?

[Jay]

Hmm.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

It’s not a great theological question. Is he worthy to be glorified? And before we answer, well, of course he is. We have to face where we’re at and say, is he being glorified here? And if he’s not and he isn’t?

[MCG]

Mm-hmm. Hmm.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

What are we, as his redeemed, going to do about that?

[MCG]

MHM.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Will we devote our heart and our lives to the exalting of Jesus Christ as the sole hope for all of humanity? And so that remains the single and primary a driving force for our continued work, even during all of this, you know, just three hours ago, right before 6:00 PM here. Our city came under massive missile attack again and if I was there, praise God, I’d be there and I’ll be there next week, Lord Willing. So we stay. Because God did not tell us to. Go.

[Jay]

Hmm.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

God did not tell us to go. We counseled with our pastor. We have a very close personal relationship with our pastor. We video can every week, every week, every week, every week, every week from on base. I get on Starlink and talk to my pastor. Doesn’t matter. Every week we have communication on the pastor. We continue to pray seeking. Gods will and he has not changed our orders. God has not changed his mind. So that’s why we’ve stayed. Because God has not told us otherwise.

[MCG]

Miss. See let me get the female perspective because in his own words, he’s a stupid Irish. And I know the woman at times may have the emotional part of it not trying to be stereotypical, but.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

It’s OK.

[MCG]

The woman I’m left their emotional part of it as a mother. Grandmother. Did you say? Hey, hit him over the head and say hey, time to go.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Anything the truth and foresee if evil. She repeated that verse a billion times. The prudent man perceived.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

We.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Evil and hides himself.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

For me, we kept praying. We didn’t know if there’s going to be a war or not. It was really confusing. And so, of course, you read your Bible and you pray and you ask God, who knows everything. And he kept saying to me through different scriptures, don’t listen to what they say, watch what they do. Putin kept putting more and more military troops right on our borders. And my husband said when we see that they put up military hospitals, then we’ll know there’s going to be a war because they’re expecting wounded. Like the very next day, we saw them putting them up. Wow. And for me, I just felt like we need to be prepared. And so we tried to prepare church people, and I thought, I don’t want to be foolish. I don’t want to put my life in jeopardy food. Actually, but at the same time I belong to the Lord, you know, whatever he wants, you know his will be done. And so my husband very wisely asked everyone in the church. Let’s take justification. Everybody you know, just get out of harm’s way. Let’s watch and see what happens. But for me, what I stayed is because when we were preparing to get out of harm’s way and stay out of harm’s way. We were getting pictures from our church people that there was no more food in our grocery stores and bombs were coming in to the parking lots where they were standing. And when you’re a missionary and you see these people. Get save step by step by step. It’s almost like birthing a child’s pregnancy and then the delivery. You see everything they sacrifice afterwards, everything they endure and you realize they’re baby Christians. How can you leave them? And so for me, it was almost like a maternal instinct. I can’t abandon them. I can’t go, and that has kept me to the very end.

[MCG]

Mm-hmm.

[MCG]

Hmm.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Searching for.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

That I want to, you know it. God puts it in your heart. You. Know it’s it’s not me. It’s God.

[Jay]

Yeah. Hey man.

[Jay]

The next question I would like. To. Ask will probably have a two-part answer because there is the ministry that you’re conducting there, but there’s also the Death ministry that we would love to get more information on and talk about that some more. But I would like to backtrack a little bit and talk about the fact that you mentioned before that you’ve been in UK.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Sure. Sure.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Sure, sure.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

OK.

[Jay]

Same for quarter of a century. You’ve seen it when at war and at peace. Well, relative peace and you’ve seen the changes in people you talked about how if missionaries or people come to serve in Ukraine that they need to be prepared to care for very traumatized, very shell shocked people, let’s say.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

That’s right. Yes, yes.

[Jay]

So with these cultural changes that you’ve had a first hand. And, you know, first seat to witness for 25 years, those cultural changes. How does that affect how you reach them with the gospel? Did you find that you have to change your approach in any way? Did you find that people you mentioned that they were more receptive than they were before because they’re so aware of the brevity of life? And to add on to that? Can you go more in depth about the deaf ministry that you are spearheading in the Ukraine?

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Because Ukraine specifically is a Orthodox religion nation. They have an absolute vacuum of biblical understanding, and so we have, through the years, taught the Bible and the presentation the gospel in the chronological fashion beginning in Genesis and teaching chronologically up and tell Christ. So they might come to what in the Bible is called the. Saving knowledge of Christ and how that has changed over the past three years specifically because of the war is we. No longer. I don’t anyway have to really spend as much time dealing with biblical truths about the existence of God and the reality of hell. Their conscience is already screaming out loudly to them, bearing witness to them about certain eternal truths, and so.

[Jay]

Hmm.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

The deaf, specifically our city, just our city. Just one city, our city. Before the war, we had 40,000 death.

[Jay]

Hmm.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

In one city, and because they can’t hear air raid sirens, they were evacuated out and they’re all over Europe. And so Kathy communicates in different. To our deaf people that are all over, we do have a handful that are still left in this city and they still attend church and Cathy does all the translation either in person or via video, depending on how dangerous it is in our city. But I would like to say this about our deaf ministry a it’s only made possible because of Kathy’s extreme devotion and dedication to learning. Russian Sign Language and her passion for the souls of the deaf people, I would say. 75% of our deaf community, our former Jehovah’s Witnesses, being deeply, deeply ensnared.

[MCG]

Wow. Wow.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

In that false gospel cult. And so it has taken a extra amount of time and investment in leading them through the scriptures, starting in the beginning, starting in Genesis about the eternal truth of the Godhead and the Trinity and the deity of the promised coming and savior and things. Like that, but their retention rate we’ve seen literally a 99% baptismal rate for every deaf person. That makes a profession in the Lord Jesus Christ knowing fully that baptism has no part of salvation, nor keeping salvation or securing salvation. But the deaf community is. Culturally, society very isolated. They’ve been shunned and pushed out to the outer skirts of the city. The Soviet mentality. They’re considered broken, so they don’t want them in the. Gene. Pool. Mm-hmm. Sort of like lepers and truly social outcasts. And there’s no governmental mechanism to provide care. For them. And so our deaf people today have a monthly. Pension. Let’s say $18.

[Jay]

Wow am month.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Yeah, a month. So it doesn’t really matter what country on planet Earth you’re living. I mean, if you’re making, you know, 20 bucks a.

[Jay]

Wow.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Month. You’re extremely poor. I mean, you are impoverished beyond understanding. And so our work, primarily Kathy’s work amongst the deaf is a. All in 110% of your heart, 110% of all the energy that you have because you’re dealing with people that have significantly more issues, economic, social, emotional issues than, say, the hearing portion of the population.

[Jay]

That’s incredible to think about because earlier in the podcast, earlier in the recording, you mentioned how impoverished Ukraine is, where the average person or family is living on $10 a day. And you’re saying like for the deaf, it’s like $18.00 a month.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Wow, it’s extremely difficult to get your head wrapped around it. Truly is.

[MCG]

Wow, you want this? Speak anymore on that. Yes, Kathy.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Oh, she’ll talk for hours about the death.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

I think you kind of set it up. I would just say that I would want to add it here. Like John said, we didn’t go there intending to be missionaries to the deaf. We didn’t even know sign language. I knew some American Sign Language but did not know Russian sign language at all, which is completely different. Do not mix the 2.

[Jay]

Mm-hmm.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

But when we went over there, God started teaching us that you don’t make a plan and then ask God to bless. You go being willing to follow God and he is already starting ministries and you’re there to serve him as he starts those, even when you know we both felt like what death. We don’t know. There’s no death in Harkov we don’t have time for that. And it was like God said. Ohh. I’m so sorry. Thought it was asking.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

We don’t have time for it.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

No, I’ve already started the ministry. Get busy. Go serve.

[Jay]

Ohh yeah.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

I wish we had time on your podcast to tell you about how the death started, but we don’t. It’s a story worth telling, and it’s a story worth hearing. But unfortunately we have the time to do it, but the bottom line is, before we were able to communicate with the. And they’re not literate. They’re not taught how to read. OK, so riding on a whiteboard is a foreign language to them. OK. But for months, we had dozens and dozens of deaf people showing up for Bible meetings, and we had no way, no ability to communicate one word to them. But they would come.

[MCG]

Oh. Wow.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Every Sunday and we give them a Bible and they sit there and hold it and they look at it like it’s in Chinese because they can’t read the thing and we have no way to communicate with them. And then next Sunday, they’ll bring back two or three friends, each of them and our deaf group bloomed over six months to it filled the entire room that we had rented. And we have no way to.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

Yes.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Right now, who does that? Umm. If God is not preparing something way beyond our human capacity to reason and how we’re going to plan Ministry, no God’s like watch what I’m about to do and it just exploded.

[Jay]

Oh.

[MCG]

Mm-hmm.

[Jay]

Right. Right. And it’s just, it’s like he’s saying I’m doing this thing. You better come along for the ride.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I’m glad.

[MCG]

Wow.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

That’s it. There’s No Fear involved in it. You just, you know, God’s hand is on it and you just feel so privileged that me, you’re going to let me get part of what you’re doing.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Yeah. Amen.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

You feel so unworthy, so unworthy to be a part of it.

[Jay]

Wow, mazing, praise the Lord.

[MCG]

So let me I I am assuming that since the war that the culture in Ukraine has changed.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Yes, a lot.

[MCG]

And the way you have described it is sound like initially when you went there, it was more of an Act 17 culture where you have to start. From Genesis creation and come upon which requires and now it seems like the more of acts Chapter 2 speak about that.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Well, you know, in acts Chapter 2 culture I think is probably almost non existence any longer on planet Earth because of the absence of scriptural understanding in comparison to those holy and devout men and women in and around Jerusalem. When the gospel is there next Chapter 2.

[Jay]

Yeah.

[MCG]

M.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Act 17, I think is the best description for virtually any mission field, at least the ones that we work on because they are religious, but they are void of any biblical understanding of God. Whether you know these past three years, you know, again serving as a full time military chaplain both to the Ukrainian Armed Forces as well as to the international forces.

[Jay]

Hmm.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Volunteer forces that are there. You know, I’m given full access, complete access to any and all military installations, secret military bases, secret training centers, underground training places. I took the gospel into an underground extremely top secret bomb factory.

[MCG]

Wow.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

I never had that opportunity three years ago and so I believe that hopefully is an indication of the change in.

[Jay]

Right.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

The society and the spiritual sensitivity, I don’t say awakening, but the spiritual openness has completely changed because of this war. And so I have soldiers. They understand that when they go out. Three out of four of them are. Not. Going to return.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

Hmm.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Period. And so they want to talk to chaplain. They trained with me. I run with them. They train with them. You live with them, help them build those relationships with them, teach them combat a tactical medicine. And before every mission, I’ve got dozens of men and women. You. Millions who want me to pray with them, who want something from God and not just a rabbit’s foot. Because those few that do come back time and again, they want to hear about Jesus, they want to hear about hope. They want to hear about salvation, they want to hear about forgiveness. And so that is a radical change than what we had 26 years ago.

[MCG]

Well, yeah. I was gonna ask about that because, you know, sometimes, you know after let’s say, go back to 911, you know?

[MCG]

The next Sunday in the US, churches were packed and also I was going to ask is it something like that? As you said earlier, they’re facing the fact that they’re mortal.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Right. No, because number one, it’s illegal because a large congregation of people is a right target for Russian missiles. Yeah. Yeah, correct. So number one is illegal, out east to congregate like that. #2, you know, americas’s biblical imprint.

[Jay]

Oh, I see. OK.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Is significantly night and day. Greater than the biblical imprint that is in Eastern European society, like Ukraine, so they didn’t have that natural let’s flock to church and saying ohh how I love Jesus. And just as I.

[MCG]

Mm-hmm.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

AM.

[Jay]

Hmm.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

But it did open them up inside and so when we engage them, whether it’s me on a military base or me. Delivering humanitarian aid and medicine to refugees or Kathy working with refugees or working with the deaf. The people that when you meet them and you engage them where they’re at, they are already wide open and very focused about things that are eternal. And so that’s what I would say. It’s like post 911 but.

[Jay]

Hmm.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Outside of the building.

[Jay]

Got it, got it. What are some needs that if they were met would make your job or your task of witnessing and ministering in Ukraine easier?

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

That’s a good question.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Well, this might sound redundant. It might sound whatever, but the greatest need right now is peace, and that’s not going to happen until Russia decides they’re not going to. Commit genocide any longer against the Ukrainian people. It’s extremely hard to witness to people and build churches, established churches when there’s bombs falling over the place, and so the single greatest need that any of the missionaries in Ukraine have is peace, meaning the cessation of hostilities on Russia’s side, please stop bombing us apart from that. The greatest barriers to the gospel continuing in Ukraine is, like I said before, the war we had over 35 conservative gospel. Missionaries and now we’ve got like I said, 3-4. And so the barrier is, you know, an age-old problem. The lack of hands, the lack of manpower, the lack of people that will, you know, take up that cross and say my Jesus is in fact worthy to be glorified and honored.

[Jay]

Hmm.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

In power and he’s not being glorified. Because if people are dying outside of the gospel, they’re dying, never understanding or hearing the gospel, and I’m going to go. Do. Something about it. Those are the barriers that we need to get across to get the gospel, to continue to go through Ukraine.

[MCG]

Well, you know, we as I said earlier, this is the 21st in the series of on the mission field and we have access question probably to all missionaries not the first one who has said peace and that’s telling that because of the situation here. You know the typical answer in some form would be financial. For and then it will be and also a top one will be personnel as you mentioned more missionaries, but it’s striking to me that you know, we have interviewed missionaries in Africa in the US and all around the globe, but no one has said peace and that’s telling is very telling. Is anything the church in you is doing to make your. Tasks of sharing the gospel in Ukraine more difficult.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

I would say the unfortunately you know, these past few months with a administration change in Washington, the political winds have changed. And I don’t have an issue as a red, white and blue American with the philosophy of America first from a humanistic standpoint, I think that’s a great, great thing. But America first has never meant in the history of our nation, America only.

[Jay]

Hmm.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

And as Christians, we need to view a worldview across centered view. It’s not politics, it’s Christ. And so unfortunately, American churches have become, once again, extremely inwardly focused, and that is the opposite of what Jesus said in Matthew when he said.

[MCG]

Hmm.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Lift up your eyes and look on the field.

[MCG]

Hmm.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

And I think that’s really really the single greatest thing in my estimation that is hampering and hindering the gospel work in Ukraine by American Christians is they’re looking down at self and their little immediate circle to the complete ignorance of, like I said, I think is. One of the greatest opportunities for the gospel that we’re going to get in this generation.

[MCG]

Umm, you know, correct me if I’m wrong, but I think what you’re saying if I should put it succinctly, is that American Christians have become conservative rather than Christian.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

I’ve not heard that. I’m going to steal that because that is well said and and you know, again from a humanistic political standpoint, you know, all those are really great things, but we’re not. We’re not citizens of this world. We’re strangers, and we’re sojourners. This world is not.

[MCG]

Right.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Our home and that doesn’t make me less of American. It makes me more of a Christian.

[MCG]

Yeah. All right. This question before we go into break is for both of you. Picture the parent out there because I know one young man who I think he’s probably finished studying now. But he told me when he started college. I’m going to the Ukraine and fell called to go to the Ukraine and in the middle of his study the war started and I don’t think he’s there now and I don’t, but I don’t think he’s there. And I would imagine his parents might say hey.

[MCG]

Why don’t you wait until after the war? Speak to the parents?

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Sure.

[MCG]

The grandparents, the fathers ohh dear that say. Hey, son, daughter maybe wait a little. Bit well.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Again, number one death is reality. And so the only thing that’s going to change between today and tomorrow is the number of souls that will be perished. That will go into eternity. Never having had the opportunity to hear the gospel.

[MCG]

Hmm.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

First time and so we had these same challenges when we first went over 26 years ago and we do have volunteers, young college age volunteers, that do come and help us distribute humanitarian aid, food, medicines and the gospel. But number one, never forget. That the center of God’s will is the safest place on the planet #2 because we know God’s will for our life. It is generally safer where we’re at in Ukraine than we are here at our home church in Charlotte North.

[MCG]

Amen.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Carolina but for parents and grandparents and just family in general, when they have someone, regardless of their age, considering praying about Ukraine specifically, rest assured that most of Ukraine, and I think if we look at the situation here in North Carolina quickly before I came home to the States here for my surgery. There is big rain, storms and flooding and destruction in North Carolina. We thought the entire state had been washed off the map. What we got here and found out that, I mean, I’m looking around and I don’t see any evidence of flooding anywhere. But everybody here tells me, listen, if you go 2 hours in that direction, it’s all gone. It’s all washed. Way and so Ukraine is the same way. OK? You’ll travel literally 1000 miles from the Polish border all the way across Ukraine and never see any evidence of war. It’s not until you get to the far eastern side where we work, that’s where the war is. And that’s where you’ll see. Bad things. And so there’s a great work that’s available like my wife’s doing, like her daughter and son are doing with all the refugees in western Ukraine, where there’s just hundreds of thousands. It. It’s hard to found them. Hundreds of thousands of ref.

[MCG]

Hmm.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Energies in your operating environment that is 0 risk of war, zero risk of missiles, 0 risk of anything which is safer than most places in the United States of America.

[Jay]

Amazing.

[MCG]

Anything that miss Cathy?

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

Yeah, because I have children that were working in Ukraine and we have children that still want to come and work with us. And as a mom, what I would say to them is number one, 100% what my husband said, you have to know you’re in the center of God’s. No matter where you are in this planet, because when we’re over there reading the news about what’s happening in America, I’m trying to tell my parents it’s not safe there. Come over here. Come over here. You have to be in the center of God’s will because when you are, no matter what is happening, even if rockets are coming in and the home is shaking or or whatever your mind and your heart, perfect peace. You know. You will where God wants you to be, and if he takes you well, great. I’m with Christ. OK, so what’s the downside? But when you’re not in God’s will, when you’re running from God’s will, that is most dangerous place. You want your child to be. And so I try to tell my children. As a mom, I don’t want you anywhere near here. Leave. But at the same time. God is calling you here. Who am I to get between you and God? I have to trust him. You belong to him before you belong to me. And I would not want to bring God’s jug.

[MCG]

Yeah.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

Management of my child. And so you have to be very careful both parent and child seek God’s will and don’t be anywhere else.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

7.

[MCG]

Alright, well I must confess you 2 give me the feeling of Jim Elliott.

[Jay]

But Elizabeth Elliot?

[Missionary John O’Brien]

No, thank you. Yeah. Yeah. I’m not interested in the crown that Jimmy.

[MCG]

Right. You’re listening to the Removing Barriers podcast. We’re sitting down with John and Kathy O’Brien missionaries to Ukraine. We’ll be right back.

[Jay]

Are you looking for a consistent and reliable place to get all your Christian materials? Try christianbook.com started from humble beginnings in 1978. Christianbook.com now offers a wide range of books, CD’s, DVD’s, home schooling and church supplies, plus more. So whether you are a parent, a homeschooler, a pastor, or a laypersonchristianbook.com can be a one stop shop for all your needs. Click the link in the description section below and check out the vast array of Christian materials christianbook.com has to offer. Hi, this is Jay MCG and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to removingbarriers.net and subscribing to receive all things, removing barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at removing barriers.net/donate, removing barriers. A clear view of the cross. You know, if I could say brother John, one thing that I thought of when you said the church needs to stop thinking inward and more outward and sharing the gospel. There’s a gentleman named Jeffrey Botkin, and I don’t agree with much of what he says. He’s more of the post millennial Christian nationalist vein. And so I don’t agree with everything he says. But he says something that was really profound.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Yes, ma’am. Yes.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

Right.

[Jay]

He said one of the biggest mistakes that the churches in America made was that when the US went into Middle Eastern countries like Iraq and Afghanistan, that we didn’t send missionaries in after the soldiers and after the army or the military. And I thought, well, what a profound thing to say is that we should have because there was opening a window. Of at least some type and now we look at what happened in Afghanistan like a black curtain has just fallen over the entire country. No one with the gospel can get in, just comparatively. But I thought of that when you mentioned that churches should not be so inwardly focused and more outwardly focused here.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Correct. Great. Right.

[Jay]

Yeah.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Yeah, I agree. That’s a great statement. You know, again, I had a pastor in the Fort Worth area here just a couple weeks ago. Ask me what can we as a church do for the gospel in Ukraine? And I said be ready. That’s what you need to do. You need to be ready because when the last missile falls, I’m going to call you directly on your personal cell phone and. I’m going to give your church a village by name, and we’re going to call that village with your church name. That’s your village. And you know, we’re going to. Take that village with the Gospel of Christ. You know. Yeah. And so be ready, because when this thing stops, it’s going to be an unparalleled, unprecedented opportunity for the gospel that, like I said, I don’t believe we’ve seen since World War 2.

[MCG]

All right, so let’s go into a little bit of fun section and find out some of your favorites. We’re going to start with you, Miss Cathy, ladies 1st and then John will go after you. What is your favorite scripture?

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

Oh, you know what, this is the hardest question you could ever ask me, you know, have, like, 114 favorites. You don’t change the same. Let me give you one that God gave me since the war had begun. That’s just precious to my soul. And I’m sure nobody else has ever used this word. But it’s some 139.

[MCG]

Give us two of them, yes.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

This verse 5 thou has don’t cry oh. OK, hold on. That has set me behind and before me. And why that one is my favorite is because. If it’s for just an ah of who? My God is. My God saw this war coming since I was a little girl. There are certain things that he prepared me for my parents ideas he put in my head things my father tried to pound into my head that were of no use in my life here. But you go forward to war. Us they were life saving things. He has gone before me, preparing my way. Not because I’m important, but because he needed to use me in my past. He goes behind me. If you could picture as you’re going towards something and have someone watching your back, that’s God. God’s got my back. I don’t need to worry. Money. God has my back. What is there to fear? And even beyond that? You know what I do? A lot of dumb and stupid things. I don’t always think things through.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

But God puts his hand upon me, and he guides me when I yield to him. And that verse going through this war is just comforting. Wow, what a great cotton house.

[MCG]

You know what is your favorite verse, John?

[Jay]

Hey man.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

My first has been almost since the very beginning and that is Hosea 66, where God told his people for I desired mercy. And not sacrifice and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings. And I believe that that’s one verse that you can study and you cannot Plumb the depths of what is found in that verse. God used that verse to. To radically change. My walk of faith with him being a former, extremely devout Catholic, it wasn’t about what I could do. And that verse continues to be at the forefront of my mindset and my service to our king, and that it’s not the burnt offerings. John, it’s the knowledge of God. It’s the mercy, the Hebrew, the kissed, that charitable loving kindness that God wants proclaimed and people to understand. It’s not the burnt offerings.

[Jay]

What is your favorite historical biblical account?

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

It probably Joseph because no matter what happened in Joseph’s life, he stayed true to the. Lord.

[MCG]

And then.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

And instead of blaming God, why, why, why? He trusted him. Absolutely. Joseph, you know.

[MCG]

John.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Can I have the question again please?

[MCG]

What is your favorite biblical historical account? In other words, what is your favorite Bible story you don’t like to call it that, but that’s basically.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Sure, I understand. Mine actually is a not very well known. One of the minor prophets and that would be Amos. I believe the life of Amos is a remarkable story of a man when he. Simply obeyed and went and served God, and his message was absolutely rejected and it was rejected. Violently negatively against him. And he was told to flee back to the land of Judah and to eat his bread there and prophecy there and to not come up north again, and not prophesy against the king any longer. And it says in Amos Chapter 7, verse 14, it says and then answered Amos and said to amazai I was no prophet. Neither was I a prophet son. But I was a herdsman and a gatherer of Sycamore fruit, and the Lord took me. As I followed the flock and the Lord said unto me, go prophecy unto my people, Israel. Now, therefore here thou the word of the Lord. For me that is my absolute favorite place in the Bible about a man that is a picker of Sycamore. Truth. And yet God chose him. No pedigree, no lineage, no nothing. A zero, and nobody, in other words, and took him and said go tell. And so he said, OK, thus saith the Lord, I mean, he simply. Simply, humbly obeyed and went. That for me is. Everything.

[MCG]

Yeah, definitely. You know what song came to my mind? As you were explaining that I’m sure you probably heard this. This is the old one. When others see a shepherd boy. God, we see a king.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Hey man.

[MCG]

Alright, what is the most convicting scripture passage to you?

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

That’s me.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Let’s do you your first.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

Absolutely, without a doubt. Jobs wife, the book of Joe, when it talks about his wife and when I studied that everything she went through, I would have to stop and ask myself. OK. But then today’s terms, what does that mean? You know, you lose your transportation, you lose your, you know, what would I have done in her shoes before that what it was?

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Ladies first, honey. Hmm.

[MCG]

Hmm.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

Stretcher. But when I put myself in her shoes. Is that she’s actually a hero. For me, it was so convicting when I had gone that far before I got to the point that breaking point that she did and I was really ashamed of myself, because I feel, wow, I am so weak compared to who she was. And yet here I was judging her all this time and absolutely Joe’s. Price.

[MCG]

The divorce rate in our churches may prove that you are true.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

Yep, yeah.

[MCG]

John.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

For me, the most convicting verse for maybe it’s a passage in Luke Chapter 14 where Jesus is talking about discipleship and the cost. Of discipleship. You know, being over 1/4 century over in Ukraine with only one furlough in 26 years.

[MCG]

MHM. Wow. Oh wow.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

We’ve seen all of our family grow up and get married and have kids and you know, we’ve missed a lot, so to say, and that’s not always an easy thing to do. And yet Jesus said, you know, if any man come to me and hate not his father and mother and his wife and his children’s brother and sister Jay and his own life. Also, he cannot be my disciple, he said. For which of you intending to build the tower, sit not down 1st? And counted the cost, and that is extremely convicting for me when I stop and think that there are great servants of our Lord that have counted the cost and. Believed that the glorification of Christ far outweighed any cost involved. And have been obedient and I cannot say that I’ve always had that heart. And so that brings conviction to me often.

[Jay]

What is the most comforting scripture for you? I’m asking you all the hard ones, miss.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

Would that be because?

[Jay]

Kathy, just one.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

Just just one. I will go with the one that God’s given me now because it does change. The war changed so much. But during the War 139 he knows. When I lay down. He knows when I raise up, he knows my thoughts from afar. How comforting I can just do this. I can do this. He’s right here with me. About me, he understands everything I’m doing when it’s right, when it’s not the best thing to do. So comforting. I can just missile rest and 139 right now because of the war.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

For me, it’s yeah. For me, it’s dude, Army 31, eight and the Lord he it is that death go before thee. He will be with.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

You’re sure?

[MCG]

Hmm.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

He will not fail thee, neither forsake thee. Fear not, neither be dismayed. That verse I cling to that verse. I meditate on day and night, especially when I’m down on base. We’re about 7 linear miles from the contact line. And so it’s. Pretty rowdy, it is, pretty noisy. And yet God says that it is he that doth go before me, and he is with me and he will not fail and he will not forsake. So, he says fear not.

Yeah, well.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Neither be dismayed. That verse provides an unspeakable amount of comfort to my soul.

[MCG]

All right, John, we’re gonna go with you first. On this one, OK.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

Don’t still mine.

[MCG]

What is your favorite hymn of the fate?

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Every person in Ukraine knows the answer. To.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

Oh.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

My favorite hymn was penned by William R Newell, and that is at Calvary.

[MCG]

Umm, what? We didn’t tell you, John, is that you don’t have to sing it as well.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

I will sing it in Russian, but I Can’t Sing it in English. I haven’t sang it in English for so long. I can sing it in Russian. I absolutely love at Calvary. I think that it is of all hymns that that I’m aware of. I think it’s the most accurate biblical scriptural outlaying of the gospel and man’s response to the gospel and. Now I’ve given everything to my kid. That him for me embraces everything about what we do. I absolutely love that Calvary.

[MCG]

Yes, expanded vanity and pride caring not, my Lord, was crucified.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Exactly.

[MCG]

Knowing not that for me either Amen.

[Jay]

Me. He died at Calvary.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Right, verse 2 is even better.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

OK. Again, I just gotta pick one.

[MCG]

Your special so you can speak to or even 3 because you’re the first missionary wife we have on the podcast. So. You can. Ohh wow.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

That is great.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Again, civilise adean gim.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

Usually I would say am I a soldier of the cross? But I would have to say other than how great thou art, I shall pick only one, and I would say day by day, that one day by day.

[Jay]

Oh, that’s a great one. Day by day. With every passing moment, yes.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

And her strength? I find to meet my trials here, resting in my father’s wise bestowment. I have no cause for worry or for fear.

[Jay]

Miss Charles Steven. It’s very. Amen.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

Whose heart is wise beyond all measure given to each day what he does best, lovingly is part of pain and pleasure, meaning toil.

[Jay]

Pass. Amen.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

She’s spiritual. It’s tough, it’s tough.

[Jay]

OK. Last one here and let’s see. We’ll go with Cassie first this time. What you saying? OK, what is your favorite? Who is your favorite giant of the face?

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

OK.

[Jay]

Hmm.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

Oh, oh, he’s fine. You’re first.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

That’s easy for me. Go ahead.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

For me, other than Jesus or Jesus. OK, it would probably not be who you’re guessing it would be, Deborah.

[Jay]

Ohh, I don’t think we had anyone answered ever before. Why is that? Why Deborah?

[MCG]

OK.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

Because she had a faith so strong, and yet she was humble. And I looked to her and I think if she could have that much faith in God so that God would entrust his army into her care, you know, that Barack would say, although if you’ll go. I want to be that person. I want my face to be so strong that people. Would see me. And kind of like share my. Strength. So I would not be a burden or pull people. That in their face. But I would inspire them. And so that’s why it would be Deborah, I want to be a woman of courage and strength, not in myself, but in whom my God is and who my savior is.

[MCG]

Oh.

[Jay]

That’s beautiful.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Wow, I have to.

[Jay]

Follow that well, you said you already knew. Like yours was easy, so.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Well, yes it is for me. And I’ve already kind of shared what it is, 100% it. Is Amos, yeah.

[MCG]

Yes.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Absolutely, Amos. I had a missionary veteran missionary out on the Indian Reservation of Arizona. Who is minister for decades and decades to the Tahona Odom peoples of Cent? Arizona and before his salvation, he was an extremely wealthy, influential individual, and God took him and gave him a people where he would sit in the middle of the desert and huts made by mud balls. I’ve been there and sit on a mud floor and to see him weep with them. And weep over them prior. To them and to see what God has done with them. And he told me, he said. I’m just a nobody trying to tell everybody about somebody that will save anybody. And so Amos, I believe is exactly that. It is a faith that is just faith is faith in the Almighty himself because he had nothing.

[MCG]

Hey.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Had nothing, no pedigree, no education, no background, no experience. And it says their name is 7 that the Lord took him from his flock and sent him and said go tell. And for me, I think it’s one of the greatest examples of living faith which produces obedience. That is true faith of almost any character in the Bible. In my humble not so humble estimation. Amos.

[Jay]

Amen. Amen.

[MCG]

All right. What would you say are some of the biggest barriers to the people of Ukraine from receiving the gospel?

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

Many, many, many many many. Money gets in the way. It blinds, it distracts. So.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Ukraine had a great period of material prosperity before the war, and so we really saw it continued hardening and hardening and hardening towards the Gospels. People became more and more more self-sufficient, something that is not an issue here in the United States, of course, but certainly became prevalent. Over there, I would say that the biggest hindrance to the gospel amongst the Ukrainian people outside. The war meaning put that aside because that is the biggest hindrance presently. But in addition to that, their biggest hindrance is the blindness of religion.

[MCG]

Mm-hmm. Hmm.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

And truly, the God of this world has blinded their eyes from seeing the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ, and it takes a work of the spirit of God to remove the scales from their eyes. And it’s not humanly possible. It’s an absolutely not humanly possible. So I believe that their dead religion. Is for me as a missionary there. I believe that is the biggest, strongest barrier to the gospel amongst our people.

[MCG]

Yeah. And how can those barriers be removed?

[Missionary John O’Brien]

To remove those barriers. You know, we believe that we have tried to do what God has wanted us to do and that is build relationships with them, spend time with them. And instead of trying to mass produce or try to sell Jesus by putting the sticker, you know a gospel sticker on somebody you know, 123 repeat after me. Raise your hand. You want to go to hell? No. You want Jesus. You want to get heaven? Yeah. Yeah. OK, you’re. Saved that’s. Not the biblical gospel. That’s right. And so to remove those barriers and our Ukraine. Take something that unfortunately too many Americans are not really interested in doing, and that’s time investment. It takes time. It takes time and investment in their lives to take them from Genesis 1 and patiently, prayerfully with great.

[MCG]

Hmm.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Fasting and devotion and time as you’ve marched them all the way up to. Calvary and you watch the Holy Spirit one scale after another scale after another scale it takes time. It takes a huge time investment, a lot of energy, a lot of time. So we don’t see before the war large numbers coming to Christ. It’s one-on-one and you are invested in that one soul for a lot. Before they come to Christ.

[MCG]

Well, Miss Cathy, John, it was indeed a pleasure. Thank you for joining us on the Removing Barriers podcast.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Thank you, Sir.

[Missionary Cathy O’Brien]

Yes. Thank you so much for an honor.

[Missionary John O’Brien]

Thank you so much for having us on the removing barriers broadcast and thank you for praying for Ukraine and for making it known, and we do hope that some folks will listen and prayerfully consider because there is a place for every child of God to do something, whether it’s here in the states or whether it’s over in Ukraine, everyone needs to get involved.

[MCG]

Hey.

[Jay]

Amen. This is the removing barriers podcast. If the podcast or the blog were a blessing to you, leave us a rating and a review on your favorite podcast platform. And don’t forget to share the podcast with your friends, removing barriers, a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

Thank you for listening. To get a hold of us to support this podcast or to learn more about removing barriers. Go to: removingbarriers.net. This has been the removing barriers podcast. We attempted to remove barriers so that we all can have a clear view of the cross.