Episode 195

What do you think about para-church ministries? This is one of those subjects where if you ask a hundred Christians, you may get a hundred different answers. In this episode of the Removing Barriers podcast we talk with recurring guest Shawn Henly about the InterVarsity Christian Fellowship (IVCF), a worldwide college campus organization that claims it seeks to establish and advance witnessing opportunities of students and faculty. If that sounds a bit like Cru (formerly Campus Crusade for Christ), you would be right. But what many of us do not realize is that these organizations, though established with good intentions, are completely infiltrated with unbiblical ideologies like feminism, woke-ism, and racism. We must expose these things to encourage reform and repentance. Shawn Henly of Cross Crusaders has been actively trying to warn and inform Christians of IVCF’s departure from the scriptures for a long time now, and he joins us to peel back the rot underneath the veneer of christian evangelism. Don’t miss this conversation–it will be a wake-up call for us to be vigilant against the works of darkness and take nothing for granted.

[Shawn Henly]

But for you to dumb down the gospel or make the gospel insignificant. And then for you to sprinkle in your own ideologies or the ideologies puppeted by far leftists. In order to reach them, it is denying the power of Christ to save souls.

[MCG]

Mm.

[Shawn Henly]

Point blank.

[Jay]

Thank you for tuning into the Removing Barriers podcast. I’m Jay and I’m MCG and we’re attempting to remove barriers so we can all have a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

This is episode 195 of the Removing Barriers Podcast, and in this episode, we’ll be discussing the InterVarrsity movement and the social justice gospel and joining us in this episode is our guest from Episode 183, the President of Cross Crusaders, Shawn Henly.

[Jay]

Hi, this is Jay. MCG and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to removingbarriers.net and subscribing to receive all things removing barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at: removingbarriers.net/donate. Removing Barriers, a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

Shawn, it is indeed a pleasure to have you once again, welcome back.

[Shawn Henly]

Thank you.

Same here. Same.

[MCG]

Great. All right. Well, let’s jump into this topic because I believe a lot of folks just like myself may have never heard of intervarsity. Christian fellowship. So tell us who is? What is Intervarsity Christian fellowship? And let’s kick off the conversation. From there.

[Shawn Henly]

Yeah, certainly. University Christian Fellowship is actually the USA branch that was founded in 1941 by Stacy Woods, who came here as a missionary from England because. It actually how the whole thing started off as international fellowship of evangelical students is back in London, England. And and this is basically a movement that started for the purpose of sharing the gospel with campus students, where a bunch of students said, you know, we see a lot of law students. Let’s have Bible studies, discipleship classes, and let’s pray together. And let’s invite these students there. Let’s share the gospel with them and. Very well. Stacey Woods came over to Canada and then from Canada he went over to United States and formed Ivcf there and Christian Fellowship and intervarsity in the USA Branch started off exactly on that same. And that’s basically all it. It’s the campus ministry, campus based discipleship ministry.

[Jay]

What relation is there between the Intervarsity Christian Fellowship and the social justice gospel?

[Shawn Henly]

Yes, yes, the relationship is. Unfortunately, the social justice gospel and Intervarsity Christian Fellowship, it was not there originally. Originally it was like I mentioned it was just a discipleship. Ministry to campus students, but over time. Time over the timeline, approximately 1960 to 1970s, right around that, the feminist movement and the sexual revolution movement. USA. That’s when we could really see the prominence of the social justice gospel start to kick in, especially after. Mainly after the Vietnam War, that’s really when that. That’s really where it started kicking in and started infiltrating ivcf to great lengths and still at large today.

[MCG]

Yeah. Two questions on. First, why do you think that time frame you know, after the Vietnam War, as you said, you think it’s a 1969 to 1970? Do you think that time frame was significant in changing the intent of the Christian fellowship? And then as a follow up, what is the social justice gospel? Because after that I have something that I want to bring to your attention and see what you have to say about that. Go ahead.

[Shawn Henly]

Sure, sure.

So the reason why I believe in that time frame. Know there was such great change in intervarsity Christian fellowship. And it’s not just ivcf. There’s many organizations, even in the church. The fundamentalist. I believe there was a great change, but we’re not going to go there right now because the questions on ivcf. The reason why I see the change in ivcf at that time period is I see what from my research what I have been able to. See is the fact that there are a lot of these students who are tired of the problems, who are tired of politicians who are tired of church leaders that don’t understand the issues that they are facing. And the adults are trying to mold children into adults rather than molding them to be. Followers of Christ and because of. The shell view as I like to call it, is kind of that way. Mold em and put em fit em into the shell of the adult or the minister or the pastor rather than fitting EM into the mold of what Christ is calling to. And these children, they went ahead and they just said to themselves, OK, like we got to Minister to these people, you know, these hippies and, you know, all of these things. No one wants to listen. We need to get loud and we need to make our point come across and then all of these other movements came in and. To elaborate a little bit on the social justice gospel, to help really drive the point home. Here, you know, social justice gospel is basically a movement in and of itself that blends Christianity with contemporary social justice ideologies. Now it emphasizes issues such as economic equality, racial reconciliation and systemic oppression. Now, from a biblical perspective on the subject, which focuses biblical justice itself focuses on righteousness, personal responsibility, and God’s moral law, the social justice gospel prioritizes social activity. Over the core message of salvation through Jesus. And it shifts the focus from individual repentance and faith in Christ to collect societal change, compromising the biblical truths to align with these movements and ideologies. That’s why I say this entire viewpoint is perspective infilt. To these students, because these students, rather than being molded into the image of Christ and what Christ calling to be and being led in that way, discipled in that way, to be quite frank. Instead, they were left all alone and the devil swooped him in and infiltrated Ivcf.

[MCG]

Alright, so let’s talk a little bit about the social justice. Let you just mention I do agree with your definition there, and I think to some it might need a little bit more explanation because of course social justice, where you talk about racial reconciliation and all these things and some folks will say, you know, on its own there. Wrong with racial reconciliation in. Hey, racism is wrong and stuff like that. And then other times you say, hey, you want equal justice for all quote and UN quote because.

[Shawn Henly]

Yeah.

[MCG]

You can argue that you know social justice sometimes is. Social justice for all is give the black person a leg up. If you want to put it that way. And then of course the. What the Bible described as the gospel does not include. Whether you’re black, white or yellow or pink is that all men are sinners in need of a savior. Repentant faith in Jesus Christ and you’re. You don’t have any special privilege because you’re black or because you’re white. Stuff like. But I guess what I’m getting at is that some folks will listen to say, hey, what’s wrong with wanting social justice? Is that an unbiblical concept? I guess would be my question.

[Shawn Henly]

Yeah. So I actually have Scripture to answer that, but let me first address this part first. Yes, people, individuals would want social justice. That yes, point blank, surface level, everybody wants justice. You do not want to be discriminated. You do not want to feel attacked. But let’s look at what the scripture says, because again, we’re not talking about. Certain elements of the social justice gospel, which in fact are true and you know, for example, caring for one another and not, you know, showing that kind of segregation. That’s. That’s biblical. But the entirety of it, the social justice gospel in and of itself, is filled. Old with activism and things like. And so let’s look at some scripture, you know, for example, you said regarding, you know, it’s not about yellow, black or white. You see God’s justice, not partial to groups, but it’s based on righteousness. For example, Romans 211 for there is no respect of persons with God. And then in James 29, but if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as as transgressors. For example, another one works of charity should come from love, not political coercion. Basically he. Here, 2 Corinthians 97, every man, according as he purposeth in his heart. So let him give, not grudgingly or of necessity, but for God loveth a cheerful giver, another one. True justice is defined by God. Not by man made ideologies. Isaiah 520 woe unto them that call evil good and good, evil that put darkness for light and light for darkness that put bitter for sweet and sweet. For bitter if Psalm 8914. Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne. Mercy and truth shall go before thy face, and I can go on and on about. These things, but at the end of the day, the scripture is very clear. Biblical justice is biblical. It does not mean man made ideologies. Or other recollections to help fuel it. Man does not need a fuel. What God has already defined.

[MCG]

Yeah, I definitely. So let’s tie that back into into vasity because I’m not familiar with into vasity as you are. So usually someone here, their intiversity Christian fellowship, they will probably go to their computer and pull up their favorite search engine, most likely going to be Google, Google, Google. And they’re going to type into Varsity Christian fellowship. The first thing that gonna come up is probably going to be their website in the varsity org.

[Shawn Henly]

Yes.

[MCG]

And if they’re like me, they will go to the website and because it’s a new ministry to me, I will probably go to two places.

[Jay]

Hmm.

[MCG]

What do we believe or statement of faith or whatever they want to call it, and the other one would be about us. Our purpose of whatever the case may be. I’m just going to read what interested the purposes. All the purpose is, since it’s a singular, the purpose of intervention Christian Fellowship USA is to establish an advance at colleges and university witnessing communities of students and faculty who follow Jesus as Savior and Lord grown in love for God, God’s Word, God’s people of every.

[Jay]

Mm.

[MCG]

Ethnicity and culture and God’s purpose in the world now. Very short statement, but I really can’t say. Hey, that statement is unbiblical. Something definitely wrong with it. Which you say.

[Shawn Henly]

To which I say you’re right to a degree. And there’s actually a specific purpose. For it being that short now, if you actually go to the what we believe section which is actually how I started my whole endeavor into this, I actually went to the what we believe now that we believe in statement is very, very clean. The Board of trustees ad. On October 20th, 2:00. So that’s why probably there’s not that much of A modernization to it. But if you Scroll down, there’s two sections called formation. And then there’s expression and if you look at the first thing under expression. So basically, how do they express what we believe in? All of that good stuff that they wrote in the believe in this is how we express it. Express it through ethnic reconciliation and justice. Pursue ethnic reconciliation by practicing mutual. Empowerment. Truth and by promoting personal and systemic justice, OK. Now, of course, there’s a lot of other good things that’s being done here, but there’s also unfortunately, bad things being done here with this. And let me just speak on this just for a second here. You might be thinking, well, Shawn again at the end of the day, it’s a good thing that you know you’re encouraging people and there’s nothing wrong with encouraging people. When your whole mission. Is to be a. Ministry your highlight should be to lead people, guide people through the truth of God’s word to help promote expository teaching through expository teaching. Them the word of God. So that they can become enriched by the word of. Their empowerment comes from the words of the Lord, not about systemic ideologies. Again, like we mentioned earlier by the social justice gospel, it is the fusion of biblical concept of what justice and these things are supposed to be with systemic ideologies. And then bam, you have this and that is right there in words. What intervarsity is doing right there? They. It written down.

[Shawn Henly]

That’s the very first start of the entire thing.

[MCG]

Yep. That’s an interesting thing because, as I say, the first thing come up would be the website. And of course I might get back to the website again. But it was interesting to me that the next most popular thing that came. Up about Intel City, at least for my search, and I use DuckDuckGo and at Google, so you might not get the same results that I got. But the interesting thing is I saw this Reverend quote on a quote reverent by the name of Michelle Higgins. That’s their next most popular. So when I say look into her, of course her purpose is to, I guess, don’t want to really put words in her mouth.

[Shawn Henly]

Yeah.

[MCG]

But basically it’s to present the message of. Price in the light of social justice for lack of a better term, I was looking for a different term to use, you know? And I listened to a message that she was or talk. She was given at Intervalsity. Yes, I suffered through it. But the number of times she mentioned people like Michael Brown and all these other black folks that. May or may not have been wrong by the police in their death, in her messages and her constant appeal to white people. Quote UN quote, I would say yes. I didn’t hear the gospel as it’s outlining scripture presented by her again, of course. What another woman should be a preacher? I think the Bible is clear on that, but. That’s not the topic of this, but if that’s the first things coming up about in diversity, then there’s definitely a point there that maybe at one point they were solid. But maybe now they have gone off the deep end. I’m not quite sure because again, I’ve not been following them that long, but from the surface, you know from the surface you might find, as you said, you might find some good things like the purpose. It is so vague. Also, why does? It can’t really point. There’s something wrong with it, but as they narrow down their purpose of how they’re going to do it, it seems like they’re getting more and more into, hey, this is more of, you know, again social justice, but.

[Jay]

My question here is now that we’ve established that the purpose of the IVCF has changed from discipleship according to God’s word to promoting their idea of social justice. And calling it the social justice gospel. How exactly are these purposes being? Are they the ones on campus forming and planning and executing marches when it comes to a political topic that they feel that Christians should be on a particular side? Do they bring people in and have Bible study from some sort of modern translation of the Bible, like the Bible for black people or something like that? Are they actively doing these things? Or is it just a veneer of hey, we talked to everyone and if we see obvious cases of racism. We’re going to speak up and it’s only surface level.

[Shawn Henly]

Yes, that’s a very good. I’m going to actually address a little bit more. Very deeply here from personal research contacts I actually had contact with Greg Zhao, who is the senior assistant to the President, Tom Lin of intervarsity, regarding this matter. So first of all, to answer the question directly. This is not kind of like a one time kind of thing where it’s like OK, in this area of Michigan where we’re hosting the urban a conference because that’s where the teaching and everything that’s their main conference. Ages for the listeners. Urban a intervarsity host these yearly conference not yearly. Every three years. Every three years they do these conferences, called Urbana, which is basically they bring in these third party speakers. That are not necessarily affiliated with intervarsity, like they’re not like staff. But they are. How do I say they are vetted? They are researched and vetted by the higher up administration, like senior assistant to the president, the president himself at times. So this is vetted by the highest. Of the entire organization and I do have the e-mail receipts to prove that. But coming back to that point, this is not kind of like a one time stint were it was like, OK. Know there’s a bit injustice going on here, so let’s focus a little bit. Here, but we’re seeing this in the case of the LGBT movement, has also infiltrated into Varsity’s campus, and that has been very prevalent. Has been come so prevalent? In fact, in 2016, the previous administration. Before Tom Lynn actually fired staff who identified as being part LGBT and there was like a whole media blitz about that. But after the new administration came and they changed their theology of sexuality document. To actually incorporate, yeah, we are gonna, you know, even if you’re part of that kind of viewpoint or standard, you know, it’s alright because you know, God still loves you at. End of the day. So I don’t know what happened there, but they went off the rails there, but coming back to hear what you’re saying about the purposes. Of the ivcf, do you think you could maybe like rehash a little bit more because I’m starting to lose exactly the essence of the question here.

[Jay]

Some of the things I looked U when I was looking at how they actually fulfill their stated purpose is how they have different.

[MCG]

Mm.

[Jay]

They do have different chapters, but the way that these chapters function, they’re more like tendrils that shoot out from the main ivcf organization. They’ve got one for Asian Americans, for black people, for Latino people, for Native American people.

[Shawn Henly]

Yes. Yes, yes.

[Jay]

And even a cursory look on their website shows that it looks a lot like they’re parroting a lot of the ideology and rhetoric. Of the far left with a veneer or srinkling of Christianity, or Jesus on top.

[Shawn Henly]

Exactly.

[Jay]

And so one of the examples we’ll say is. I have an article here from the Latin American. Is it? Or whatever they’re calling it tendril of this organization and the first article that comes up says hearing the cries of undocumented prophets. And I’m not quite sure what that has to do with reaching people with the. What I mean by that is, if your stated goal is to reach unsaved people on campus. With the Gospel of Jesus Christ, I’m not quite sure what listening to undocumented prophets has to do with that.

[Shawn Henly]

Yes.

[Jay]

One how can you determine that they’re prophets, #1 and #2 if their? One would surmise that perhaps they have some measure of the understanding of the gospel, and why do they need to be rich? Why is this a primary article on your? Site in terms of what you say that you do to reach people and so it seems to me it’s just leftist talking points with a sprinkling or veneer of Christianity on top to distill. The question is that what Ivcf is doing now? Are they simply?

[Shawn Henly]

Thanks Adam.

[Jay]

An organization that separates people according to their ethnic or racial categorizations and then form social groups around that performing activism. With the veneer of Christianity. Is that what they’re doing on campus?

[Shawn Henly]

Yes, point. Yes. Now let me give them a little bit of credit. Let me give them a little bit of credit. Alright, at the end of the day, what they’re attempting to do straight from the lips of Greg Zhao himself is the fact that we are trying to reach every group, every single racial group imaginable. By helping them understand the gospel in their own understanding. Now I want us to take a step back here and just honder on this for a minute. Now what you said is absolutely true, and I know people who work on the inside of intervarsity and I have the records to prove that this is actually what’s going on in there, which will be released in our upcoming documentary Truth prevailed, Season 2 on intervarsity, airing May. 2025 this year, so just two months, a little over two months and we’ll be pushing all of that out there. Basically, the whole reason why they’re dividing it into these chapters, the chapters are more location based. More than in terms of racial demographics, but the whole chapters for Native Americans this that the reason why. Do this. It’s a very simple concept, but it’s a very dangerous concept. Is the fact that they’re trying to go ahead OK Native Americans, you know, they have their way of singing, and they do their chants, which is towards their gods. Why they do those chants and things? And so let us perform in a way that presents the gospel in a manner. That is similar so that they’re not thrown off by our method by our white evangelical Christianity, as Michelle Higgins herself put it in that message that she did with intervarsity. And so for that reason, for black Americans, Asian Americans, all of these different demographics, how do they currently worship their God, which is, you know, a false God or they’re an atheist or whatever? Culturally speaking, is what they’re looking at. How do they do their ordinances and everything, and let us essentially fit the gospel into that mold and push it on that platter so that they’re not? Repulsed by it, but that they’re willing to accept it, willing to take a look at the gospel, and then once we get that door open and I’m all right, this is, you know what the Bible says and things like that, which at the end of the day that. What they’re doing? Now that’s how they started back in the 1970s and 80s. How they started, they said they were going to do it. Again. Which to define the evangelicalism? It is the infusion of fundamental theology with liberal methodology. In a nutshell, that’s literally what it is in a nutshell.

[MCG]

Well.

[Shawn Henly]

And when you do that fusion what it results? In something known as letting the door open and for Satan to work. And that is what has occurred to intervarsity today, which is why the liberal ideologies are now rampant. And like you said, it’s just a sprinkle of Christianity. Just so they don’t lose their funding from small conservative churches who are unaware of all these things going on.

[Jay]

If I could continue on that point, another item that we could look at to see exactly who and what is being taught and how these people are conducting ministry on campus, there is a link out of one of these tendrils out of one of these social justice tend. A link titled a letter or what I wish I knew when I was a young activ.

[Jay]

Mm.

Not a young soul winner. Not a young Christian. A young activist. I’d let her to my younger. And then there are bullet points that this person as an ivcf leader. I mean, they’re publishing online for this organization.

[Shawn Henly]

Yes.

[Jay]

The second bullet. Says authentically lead out of who you are. If you 2 will bear with me and have your what do they call those bags that you have on the airplane when you need to throw up, have that on standby here.

[Shawn Henly]

Yeah, yeah. Mark, exactly.

[Jay]

Yeah, the bar stacks. Authentically lead out of who you. You were fashioned by the hands of creator to bear the image of God. Uniquely, the fire, sweat and tears of your ancestors were woven together to create the exquisite tapestry that is used. Within the church, you may notice that the leaders who are given a place at the table seem to look and sound the same, and rarely do they look and sound like you. Don’t be surprised if you find yourself being trained to relate to God, lead, or speak in ways that center the white experience, but brush the other parts of your ancestry under the table. Even find that hiding your vibrant tapestry offers greater. But I urge you resist the temptation to choose recognition over authenticity. It may feel like a warm embrace in the short run, but take heed, because this road will lead to burnout and suffocation. Soul instead unapologetically bring all of who you are to Christ’s shared table. To the wisdom of native theologians. Discover the sacredness of the land. Let your soul dance in freedom. To the spirit filled corridors of the Hermanas and lead out your communion with the brown skinned Jesus. Recognize your unique gifts in the Kingdom and your own voice. You may not always find honor, but you will find. Abundant. Life, the most powerful act of resistance against the evils of racism and patriarchy, is a thriving and rooted woman of color. You are the enemy’s worst. Honey, listen, it’s not that the word of God. Is the antidote to sin and the power of sin in our. It’s not that the spirit of God working through the child of God, using the word of God to bring about becoming like Jesus. No, no, no, it’s not. No, no, no, no. You have to listen to your native Hermanas. Whatever she. And so to me, this is a complete supplanting of the scriptures of the Bible of the Word of God. And it just seems to be leftist activism. On campus, OK. We. I think I’ve already beaten the dead horse here, but then. Why do you suppose that there’s no one in ivcf? Perhaps I shouldn’t say no one, but why is this not ringing an alarm bell, particularly now that the country is waking up to wokism even on the secular front, we’re beginning to realize how ridiculous this is. Why do you suppose that? Perhaps? Ivcf might be dragging its feet a little bit on this.

[Shawn Henly]

Yes, that’s a very good question. A very good. And I mentioned something else for that’s exclusive in our script. So do remind me if I do forget to touch on that. But to answer your question on this subject specifically, could you rehash the question real quick? So sorry.

[Jay]

If Ivcf has been infected with this woke ideology, and perhaps it’s completely changed what ivcf is supposed to be all about, why do you suppose that there isn’t much of A movement within ivcf to uproot this nonsense?

[Shawn Henly]

Yeah, exactly. Thank you. So to answer your question. I love that question and you’re absolutely correct. There is absolutely no uproar. Nothing going on. Actually, there was another student, a not student. There was actually. An attendee of intra varsity that actually wrote an article called. Letter my plea or something like. My plea to intervarsity Christian fellowship. It was written by reporter Caitlin Richardson. Yes, I have her approval to use her name Caitlin. She’s now reporter for a very big organization now as official media reporter. But back in the day when she used to work for. Not work, but attend intra varsity, she noticed many of their conferences started shifting to liberalism and she. Made an earnest plea with many citations and quotes that were more focused on the Bible and what the Bible had to say and what other theological leaders had to say on liberalism. You know Christianity and what the true message of Christ is and things like that. Which, you know, was a small little blog post. She did. And you know, before she got into media and television. So, you know, kind of went into obscurity. But other than that, there’s, like you said, there’s no one in leadership making any noise. Now let me actually explain what I was actually trying to do, what I was trying to do here with truth be told season 2, I actually contacted several of the chapters, the individual chapters whereby research team members were located near and I actually got contacted with five of. Who are willing to let my guys go in there? Interview them. Record the entire. Document what exactly is the operation going on? There now James Chung, who is one of the vice presidents, not the vice president of Varsity, but vice president of another department in in diversity. Caught wind of this. Then sent a notification all the way up to the higher end of. And that’s when all of the people who had said yes to me and said yes to my guys. They immediately said no, we cannot allow you to come. We got orders not to go through contact. Greg JAL immediately. So I got an e-mail one to two weeks later from Greg Zhao who said look what we’re doing here. We’re doing the work of God. Don’t want anyone coming in. And trying to tamper with that, we don’t want anyone trying to come in and you know change that because at the end of the day, after code, we had a 33% boost of people attending our services and our conferences. We got all of these boosts and things so we don’t want anyone trying to throw shade at that. If you know what I mean. And that itself shows that at the end of the day, they’d not want to make things transparent in terms of reality with the situation. And it’s a very unfortunate thing. Thing to say the least, but it is what it is.

[MCG]

Yeah, let me say this. Let’s make an argument here, right?

[Shawn Henly]

OK.

[MCG]

Because the Bible says in First Corinthians Chapter 9, verse 22 to the weak, I became as weak that I may gain the weak. I am made all things to all men that I might by all means save some. So let’s say that they presented verse to you, Shawn, and say, hey, the way we present the gospel or the method of presenting the gospel to the black community in the US. Let’s be real. The black community in the US to some degree have been neglected with the gospel.

[Shawn Henly]

That would agree, yes.

[MCG]

My wife comment on that a lot more than I do, but if you go into the inner cities of the United States, let’s call them the Cleveland and New York and Baltimore. Of the US and many more, the. Louis, Missouri will be top of the list there too. Maybe Jackson, Ms. I’m just listening a lot of inner cities where there’s a large congregation of black people, and if you go into those cities, you will find that, well, most of them don’t have any solid churches at all. And I say solid churches are not necessarily talking about. Churches that would be of the type I. I’m talking about churches that even just preach the gospel. You will find churches that, for lack of a better term, prevent what we call the social justice gospel. Their churches that are led by black folks that will tell them that the white man is out to get you.

[Jay]

Mm.

[MCG]

And Jesus is willing to give you everything you pray for, all you might find the Joel esteem type and missionaries as well. Don’t go into that areas to.

[Shawn Henly]

Yeah.

[MCG]

Often so they don’t have churches they don’t have missionaries in those areas, and we can argue there for some reason. Usually the crime rate in those areas are pretty high and stuff like that. Are a little bit eerie about going into those places, but here come into varsity saying, hey, we’re going to be all things to you so we can meet you with the gospel.

[Shawn Henly]

Yeah.

[MCG]

What is so wrong with that? Hmm.

[Shawn Henly]

That’s a very good. I love that question and to a degree, all right. I agree with your sentiment. A degree I agree with your sentiment. That at surface level, it seems there’s nothing. You know when everyone else is abandoning, and that’s often the argument. Like I mentioned back in the 1970s, that was bayed is a fact that look, all of these church leaders are trying to make you fit this mold. It’s not the mold that Christ. Has established for the church to follow through, and that’s where this whole kind of revolution came to be. But we’re now going to go too much into that now. But focusing back on this for just a second here for them to do that, it’s one thing. But for you to dumb. The gospel or make the gospel insignificant and then free to sprinkle in. Your own ideologies or the ideologies puppeted by far leftists in order to reach them. It is denying the power of Christ to save souls point blank. You are saying, OK, it’s up to me to go to these people because yes, Christ said. Go into all the world and preach the gospel and all men, baptizing them in the name of the father, the son, and the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe whatsoever commanded you, and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the earth. Amen. And so, yes. Christ gave. He preached the word. Yes. Preach the gospel. But that, but he doesn’t say go ahead and start talking about how black people have been neglected all their life. And we have to reject white evangelicalism. OK, if you’re trying to turn people away from the negativity and away from the false teachings that they have absorbed, like you said, the type of churches, the different. Churches that are unbiblical, you do not go ahead and resurface that and reemphasize that as your main subject point because Christ mentioned the subject point as the saving truth of the gospel. The deaths, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Why am I not hearing that from Michelle Higgins? Why am I not hearing that from anyone else? Why am I hearing that white evangelicalism is toxicity? And that you have to remove that toxicity from your mindset or else you are being a cancer to the Kingdom of God. Why aren’t you saying OK? Instead of thinking this way? This is the truth. Because at the end of the day, if you’re not doing that, if you’re not sharing what the gospel is and you’re going about all of. Other things. Your whole agenda to dumbing things down for them to understand and then present the gospel. Is in vain because at the end of the day, point blank you are not sharing the gospel. You’re sharing ideologies that are unbiblical and anti gospel.

[MCG]

Yeah, I look at it this way because I think a lot of times and I’m quite sure if there’s any true believer or they listen to this and hold to the social gospel gospel. I think a lot of them would be look over. That what the souls need. Is actually the true gospel of Jesus Christ, because that removes racism that removes discrimination that remove. That’s the. The answer is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The true gospel of Jesus Christ. A lot of times I think you’re going in there and you’re saying, hey, you have diabetes, but here’s a box full of chocolate, go and comfort yourself. Then say hey, you a thinner. You’re in need of a savior, and here he is. Christ, that is the answer. The Gospel of Jesus Christ, not, as you say, the watered down version of the gospel, which is that the gospel in and of itself. All. Well, why don’t we go into a break and then come back on the other side with some more questions? Listening to the removing barriers. We’re sitting down with the President of Cross crusader, Shawn Henly. Are we talking about the? Christian fellowship movement and the social justice gospel. We’ll be right back.

[Jay]

Are you looking for a consistent and reliable place to get all your Christian materials? Try Christian book com started from humble beginnings in 1978. Christianbook.com now offers a wide range of books, CD’s, DVD’s, schooling and church supplies, plus more. So whether you are a parent, a homeschooler, a pastor, or a lay person, Christian book com can be a one stop shop for all your needs. Click the link in the description section below and check out the vast array of Christian materials Christian book.com. Has to offer.

[MCG]

All right. Well, let’s jump back into. Shawn, let’s talk about is it important for us to have ministries like this on college campuses, especially non Christian college campuses? Of course I went to. I would say solid Christian college and I don’t think we needed something like this, but for those that are going to colleges out there that are not Christian, do we truly need ministries like intervarsity on college campuses?

[Shawn Henly]

Now that’s a very good. I’m gonna go at this two ways. 1st, 1st. First off, to focus on what intervarsity used to be, how it founded, I would say absolutely. We need as many outlets to share the gospel. I’m not hating against people standing on street corners and preaching back in literally the days of the Bible open air preaching was like the main source of preaching. Go out on street corners and preach during trade routes and things you get loads of people from all different regions coming to hear you share the gospel. So yes, I do believe that discipleship ministries to campus students and, you know, going ahead and sharing the gospel in these institutions. That share you know, anti biblical values and ideologies is important, because where there’s darkness, you know the word of God shines light to Pierce that darkness. And to give many of these young adults and individuals hope and ultimately freedom from any addictions or things that they’re going through. Only Jesus, the one that can break them free from that. But what? Is today it is just an utter abomination that at the end of the day what we need to consider is the fact that. And I say this a lot for other even many groups, many movements right now that are occurring, right? There’s this moment called the Unidus movement, an ecumenical based movement that is hitting up college campuses where they rent out the auditorium of the school. And then they sing music, and then everybody comes crying to the altar, and then they just baptize them and focus on baptismal regeneration, which is believing that you get saved after you get baptized rather than believing and accepting the free gift. Salvation and then baptism as. The outward showcasing of your fate, the outward profession of your fate. That’s what baptism biblically is. So to answer your question really no, I don’t believe we need a modern kind of intervarsity. Unfortunately, there are many other organizations starting to pop up and even partner with Intervarsity Roman Catholic. Organizations as well have started to do very similar intervarsity at many chapters, meaning many specific individual campus locations have even partnered up together to be like, hey. Instead of us having our booths and getting people to come join our bond a conference. Says, you know, you got a little bit more people in your booth. Why don’t we just work together? So that way we get all people together for one purpose. You know, one ’cause. So not only is it just the social justice element there and the LGBT agenda that. But now you got even the main. If you really you know, zoom out and see the whole picture, it’s. Medical agenda at play with the Roman Catholic Church.

[MCG]

Yeah, I did sense that in my research that we’re doing that. There seems to be ecumenical.

[Jay]

Well, since that’s the case, shouldn’t the church be doing on campus what Ivcf is purportedly or saying that they do, but are obviously not really doing?

[Shawn Henly]

Well, yes, you’re absolutely. The church Christ commissioned the church to do the work of sharing the gospel, because at the end of the day, how the entire biblically let me first layout biblically what the entire what God laid it out to be. Christ set the church as a cornerstone. OK. OK. Church is the main place, you know. Is where you learn about. You’re edified with his word. Forsake not the assembling of yourselves. Is the center of fellowship with one. It is your learning place to learn about the word of God. And it is a place where when these people go out to save people from the church, go out, they witness to the lost people. Say, hey, brother, let’s come. You know, we have Bible study. We have class together. We’re hearing from the pastor here, from the. Bring him into the church and then those lost people who are now new converts at that point. They get disciple, they grow, they mature, and then we rinse and repeat. Go out, bring them into the church. Disciple, grow and. That is what God ordained and has blessed, but. We’ve taken that whole element out and to a degree it’s a 2 sided kind of face to it and I can’t understand why intervarsity had to do what they did. Not the modern intervarsity, but back in the day is the reason is a lot of churches, even conservative churches, because. Of liberalism growing and many people leaving. The sound churches, you know, going for the hippie modern, progressive or prosperity gospel based churches. The true churches don’t have a lot of young people in them and don’t have a lot of able bodied people in them. All older senior people. Going there for those services and so forth. Winning campaigns or outreaching events? One’s. It’s barely just come to church on Sunday and if you can and there’s absolutely no obstacle. Alright, will show up. And so when the church isn’t that kind of a state and is not able to outreach or do soul winning, then you got a lack of soul winners. So I wouldn’t necessarily just alone say, OK, it’s because and of course some churches have people and they’re just lazy. A whole nother thing.

[Jay]

Mm.

[Shawn Henly]

But genuinely there are churches and I know at least fifty of them personally who just don’t have the means they want to. They want to get out there. The pastor’s on fire. The pastor’s wife is on fire. The pastor’s children are on fire. And they do what they can. But they don’t have the means to go out. Into these colleges where intervarsity is able to sign agreements and be like, OK, we’re an official organization. An official Para church. We got all of these money and resources and we’ll do all of these. Just please give us a little seat at the table over here and they’ll be like, OK, good. But when a little old pastor in the middle of nowhere comes in and says, hey, let me preach the church. Oh, no, you’re a. And I don’t mean this in a negative anyway, but you might come in and attack our children. Or do some harm to the students and we can’t. Because you’re someone we don’t even. But intervarsity. You know, they got a whole roster and everything, so. It’s a very complex situation, unfortunately, but that’s the reality of the situation.

[MCG]

So I thought you think in the vast city Christian fellowship is a power church organization and let’s define that. Do you mean by? Church organization and of course, do you think they are one?

[Shawn Henly]

Yes. So parachurch organization, first of all is basically Para church ministries are Christian organizations that operate. Rate alongside multiple. This would be especially in terms of cross denominational lines. Like I said, there’s an ecumenical agenda under the skin of all of this. But these churches are not officially affiliated together. For example, a Methodist Church. Presbyterian Church non. There’s a load of non denominational. All involved into this, but all of these different, different things. They all be like OK. Want to? We want to put down our money and. Focus help these people who are focusing on missions, evangelism, social services, specialized discipleship efforts, the Urbana conferences, and so we’re going to give them monthly support. We’re going to give them this much money. So because of that reason. Now everybody is kind of like how do I put? I don’t want to sound like a business term, but it’s kind of like all of these churches have like an equity. At this point.

[Jay]

Mm.

[Shawn Henly]

That’s how massive the entire networking has become. And a lot of churches, and I know some who are investing financially into intervarsity, that genuinely don’t know what’s going on because the person who is going out from their church into intervarsity, you know, like you said, they have chapters. And so their chapters, oh, you know, we. Songs and we’re doing mashup. All of these. And all of these people are smiling and happy. But they don’t really know what’s going on behind the scenes. Of how the outreach is happening and what are the students actually getting out of this thing. And that’s one of the main reasons why I wanted my guys to go out there and interview these people because we want to interview the students, be like Okay, intervarsity is claim. Do all of these things so that you understand the gospel. Now tell me, what is the? And they won’t know the answer.

[Jay]

Hmm.

[Shawn Henly]

Because what’s being said is not the gospel. That would be kind of like the nail in the coffin kind of ordeal.

[MCG]

Mm.

[Shawn Henly]

Unfortunately, we were not able to go that far, but we were able to reach that same conclusion. The Lord opened doors in other areas and we were able to reach that conclusion again, truth prevails. 2 will have everything you need to get that answer.

[Jay]

Question to tag onto that, Shawn. Do you think that the reason why parachurch ministries like Ivcf and Campus Crusade? Now they call it crew and all of these on campus.

[Shawn Henly]

Yeah.

[Jay]

Do you think the reason that they are established is because the church is not doing their job and they’re stepping in where they see a gap where they see a failure of the church to reach the souls on campus?

[Shawn Henly]

A. Yes, I believe some of them are stepping in to because of the fact that, OK, yes, the church is not really doing much. But then again, for example crew. Bill Bright, who is the founder of Campus Crusade for Christ as it was known back then, and we are actually covering this very extensively in season 2.

[MCG]

Mm.

[Shawn Henly]

But Bill Bright is a very he’s very vocal about the Roman Catholic Church being the Roman Catholic Church is the way to Christ being the way to heaven. Have many documents. Quotations and all of that to prove what he’s saying. His own autobiography says it. Not autobiography. Sorry his own. His own writings. Letters have those words on it that he does endorse Roman Catholicism, and that is what the agenda of Campus Crusade for Christ was is really to infiltrate these campuses. For that. And so really, what these organizations are doing and I’m not going to say necessarily into varsity, but unfortunately that is what has become of intervarsity today. Has become the vehicle instead of being the vehicle, the vessel for Christ. To share the gospel has now become the vessel for Satan to propagate the ecumenical agenda.

[Jay]

Yeah.

[Shawn Henly]

And to propagate leftist ideology, which at the end of the day, it’s all. Lord, as only one way of doing things. One way of understanding and doing. But the devil has different, different, different doors that if you walk through them, it all ends up in the same place. And that is eternal damnation if you are not believing on the. Jesus Christ as your savior.

[MCG]

Yeah. So let me ask you this, because I want to discuss ParaChurch because I was listening to you make a presentation on your YouTube channel and you said that. Period, point blank. Period. Organizational unbiblical. Yeah. Why do you say that?

[Shawn Henly]

Why a Para church ministries unbiblical so great? So here’s the reality of the situation and I need to be honest in some areas and I’m going to be elaborating on a second but Parrot church. Organizations, ministries, etc. There’s no record of it in the. There is no record of it being ordained by God as a method, as a way to bring about the truth, and I’m going to expand on this. Right now is the fact that we always see Paul or all of these people, they’re being sent out of the church all of these. New people, all of these new people who are going out, sharing the gospel, witnessing to these nations, they are sent out of the church. They are writing. They are writing, you know, reports back to the church being like, OK, you know what we’re doing here? Keep praying for us. We are going about this with all long-suffering. Is the. You know this? How many people were able to witness to? If you can, please send us some. You know, because, you know, we need to make some tents, etcetera, etcetera. That’s how things are to be. That’s how things are known to be done, and the reason why parachurch organizations specifically. Here’s a problem with the parachurch ministries is the fact that number one ministries that replace rather than support the local church, it’s going to not only weaken the church involvement in the activity as it used to be done in biblical. But also at the end of the day, it’s also negating the congregating of the believers, together with a local congregation. That is a primary element and more even more grave error is the doctrinal. Compromise now for a parachurch organization. Like I mentioned, it’s multiple churches for an.

[MCG]

Mm.

[Shawn Henly]

They’re joining together and they’re saying, OK, we are all gonna chip in, whether we’re Methodist, non denominational. Presbyterian. Lutheran. And it doesn’t. You know, we’re all gonna work together for this one thing. The reason why OK, and I’m gonna get into a little bit of about more denominations here. The reason why people used to separate or denominations now, there were interpretational differences, but genuinely there are many. Damnable. Many false doctrines that people wanted to avoid, which is why they said OK, like you, people want to follow that. Follow that nonsense. But we are staying away from. That and so now you’re merging all of that together and you’re saying, OK, well, you’re not the end of the day. You know, it doesn’t really matter. Know if you believe that you know baptismal regeneration, you can be saved because at the end of day, as long as you’re saved, it doesn’t matter. You know, as long as you’re saved, it doesn’t matter how you get saved or you pray a prayer or you come in and confess your sins to the priests. East. Or you get yourself saved by being baptized as what’s happening with the unitis movement right now. It’s very unfortunate for me to say, but in that moment, the 10s of thousands of students that are being saved, I’m very sorry to say that unless they personally accepted Christ and. Savior and they’ve truly believe. Yes, but being dunked in the water made them saved. They’re not saved. I’m very sorry to say that and it’s going to lead to an even bigger problem for the next generation. As Jen Alpha grows up, you know, it’s going to lead.

[Jay]

Yeah.

[Shawn Henly]

To a whole lot of complicated issues than what we’re dealing with, and that is something our ministry is preparing to deal. As we.

[MCG]

Yeah, I think we might be splitting hairs here, but I want to talk about that a little bit because I think maybe your definition of power choice organization might be of course, if you breakdown the word power mean alongside of course you know what church is. So organiz. Ministry come alongside the church. So even though I wouldn’t say removing barriers, the power Church organization, technically it is a power church organization and technically, you know, looking at the simplest of definitions. Cross Crusaders would have to be a power church organization as. Yeah. So I guess what I’m getting at is saying is unbiblical. Or are we saying that usually the way it’s done is unbiblical? Because think about ministries. Course I don’t endorse. Some of these ministries I’m going to mention. I don’t endorse everything they do, but let’s. Answers in genesis. There’s stuff that answers in Genesis. Maybe might be the music, maybe might be the version of the Bible they use that I may not hold to, but I think they’re doing very good work in defense of the faith.

[Shawn Henly]

OK.

Yeah.

[MCG]

But at the end of the day, they’re technically a power church organization. Another extent you can say. The Creation Research Institute. Yeah, you know, technically, I guess one way I look at it, think about it like this, I think about it like. You’re in the rural areas of Atlanta. You go to a church that is 25 members strong and a good Sunday. You have 50 people shows up and you have a vibrant local church in a rural community. There’s no way that that small church and even if you’re a big church in a metro area, there’s no way you’ll be able to provide everything that your people may need in terms of, let’s say, adoption, support or what else, who knows. Put whatever else that Members would go to their church or say hey, can you direct me to this or help me with this?

[Jay]

Mm.

[MCG]

Helping orphans or whatever the case may. Yeah. So there are a lot of quote UN quote power Church organization will come alongside and say, hey, I realize that your budget is only $200.00 or $100.00. So you can’t really. Feed much homeless people, but we have a organization of 200 churches that are willing to support and multiply that $100 that you can give and we will go out in your community. Share the gospel and help the homeless. I don’t know saying that that’s unbiblical to me is saying, hey, the church should be able to do it on its own rather than saying hey, let’s form some sort of quote UN quote, pouched organization that may have the funding. Because with multiple churches, again, I guess argument can go both ways and stuff like that. I’ll let you comment on that, then I’ll come back.

[Shawn Henly]

Yeah. No, no, no, certainly, certainly. I love that question, and I think there’s two sides to this because there’s Para church ministries. And there’s parrot church organizations. OK, Parrot Church organizations is what you defined, which is basically an organization off different churches that do kind of, you know, help out, you know, with, you know, homeless veterans, you know, hey, does this individual in this congregation not have enough money for? Insurance, after having a fall, they. Hip surgery need to pay the bills. All right. Well, here we got a bunch other churches out here. Know who have the. You know they have congregation members who have money, and they gave their offerings and OK. More than this, church does. So we’re gonna ask them. You know, because they’re in our circle. Bam. You know you got money for your your hip replacement surgery. So I’m not against that. What I’m saying is unbiblical is Para Church ministry and to be very transparent with the listeners cross crusaders used to be a Para church ministry even after becoming independent Baptist ministry under. The sole purpose that our Board of Directors or pastors. Of different independent Baptist churches. Now, yes, we were all like. We believed in the same King James Bible and stood against modernism and ecumenism and all things of that nature, but as a parachurch ministry, which is what intra varsity calls itself to be, not an organization but a ministry. A. That’s the keyword. Ministry. Therefore, what’s happening is your authority is no longer in the church because when you’re a ministry, you are sent out by the church, by the church. OK, by one church, singular. Not multiple. So with intervarsity and even ourselves, you know, that’s why we were in an unbiblical. And we were like, OK, how to fix it now? Pastor Jeff Quigley, out of Smoky Valley Baptist Church, Linsburg, Kansas. Is our sending church. Now and so we got that sorted out. But he actually has to deal with something like what you just mentioned a. Which organization where there’s a bunch of Methodist liberal Methodist churches out there who made a para church organization, and now they’re actually harassing him because? When some daughters, you know, transgender surgery needed money and he would not give money, you know there was a whole big clash over that and that was very unfortunate to hear about. That’s how that. So that’s really a difference here. And that’s why I’m saying also in terms of intervarsity what’s happening is unbiblical, is the fact that it’s a Para church ministry. Not just an organization. The key difference?

[MCG]

So it’s in I I think at the end of the day, all this time I say that you’re splitting hairs and I see what you’re saying because a pet peeve of mine is that we call so much things ministry that are not really ministry. Yeah, and you’re saying. In order for you to be a ministry, it must be either send out from the church or a part of the church which makes sense. Can. On that one. Because I do find that we call a lot of things ministry when they’re really not a ministry quote. UN quote. Yeah. Again, at the end of the day, I think you probably agree with this when it comes to power Church organizations, they should be fetted before the church.

[Shawn Henly]

Yeah.

[MCG]

Decide they’re going to be have any part in them.

[Shawn Henly]

Exactly.

[MCG]

But the ministry should be out of the church. See what you’re saying? Definitely follow on that one. All right, so let’s. Bring it down entire bone. Like. We established that the intensity Kristen Fellowship, the preaching of social justice gospel. They have long left what they were founded upon. Yeah, tied. Tell us what is the? Because I think we talk about it a little bit, but make it as clear as possible what is the gospel, in other words. What intervices should be preaching? They’re not.

[Jay]

Yes, please, Mr. Henly, because according to these people, we need to be listening to our. And stuff. Please tell us what is the gospel?

[Shawn Henly]

Yes, yes, yes. But point blank, you know, because that’s really how many people just overcomplicate the gospel, that it drives me nuts. It drives me nuts when people are complicated gospel, but it’s very very simple. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved. That is just. That is just Scripture and believing is not knowing. Believing is accepting who Christ is, what he did on the cross for your sins. And then at the end of the day, why you need Christ Christ. That’s all it really is. When you believe on the Lord Jesus, you become saved and you become a child of. And that’s ultimately what intervarsity should be doing. That’s what intervarsity Christian fellowship should be doing. And that is what I’m challenging because no one else has exposed intra varsity. And yes, this is quite frankly, season 2 of truth. Pavel isn’t exposing of intervarsity. ‘Cause this is not about. Oh, you’re just a little ministry that does things differently than what I do. You’re not preaching the. In fact, one of them and I mentioned that I’d come back to this at a later point. Another chapter of intra varsity called the William and Mary Traversity chapter. And they made a whole letter. Apologizing about the fact that they were not opening their eyes. You know that they were so focused on the word of God, you know, that was written by man, you know, by the written words of man. Rather than being able to be able to talk to their community, which was primarily a mystical community, that was what that campus really was. Focused on mystical endeavors, William. Barry, the William and Mary, I forgot the official name, but if you type it up, William and Mary Intervarsity chapter, you should be able to find it very easily. And therefore, that is where intervarsity is. And all intra varsity has to do is look. We’re not going to care if you’re black. If you’re Asian, if you’re Native American, because Christ did not die as parts. He didn’t die one day for black people and one day for Native American people and have a different gospel for each and every single one. The gospel applies for all and in the sight of God. All is equal. When you get saved, it doesn’t matter what the color of your skin. All that matters is have you accepted him as your personal Lord and savior, and are you following in the ways of the Lord? You know, after you get saved, are you obeying him in the waters of baptism? Are you, you know, being a member of a local church, submitting yourself in the authority of a local church and growing and Lord and being discipled and sharing the gospel, and furthermore? That’s really what they should be doing, and that is what I am calling on the administration of intervarsity to be doing instead of this nonsense that’s currently going.

[MCG]

Well, as you’re talking Romans, 1012 came to mind, for there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek for the same Lord over all its rich under all that call upon him. And of course, verse 13, for whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

[Shawn Henly]

Be. Amen. All right.

[MCG]

Well, Shawn, when does season 2 come out? May 16th.

[Shawn Henly]

May 16. That’s the Friday comes out at 7:30 PM Eastern Time and every Friday after that, we’re just going to keep going at it for 10 whole weeks, and then we’ll have the season 2 finale. Live stream finale. There will be no in person finale like we did season. There was a lot of complications with that and a lot of money, sort of like. We’re not going to do a live 1 till like an in person one till season 5, but it’s going to be live streamed. Going to be available on our YouTube channel.

[MCG]

Alright. Well thank you so much for joining us on the Removing Barriers podcast.

[Shawn Henly]

Thank you. You. Thank you.

[Jay]

Hey, thanks so much for listening to the Removing Barriers podcast. Did you know that you could find us on Twitter? Gab parler Facebook and Reddit go to Removingbarriers net slash contact and like and follow us on social media. Removing barriers. A clearview of the cross.

[MCG]

Thank you for listening. To get a hold of us to support this podcast or to learn more about removing barriers, go to removing barriers. Net, this has been the Removing Barriers podcast. We attempted to remove barriers so that we all can have a clearview of the cross.