Episode 188

On this episode of the Removing Barriers Podcast, we sit down in the studio with Mike P. from episode 50 to discuss Greek! The New Testament was in Greek, so it stands to reason that studying Greek guarantees a deeper and more thorough understanding of what the Bible says. Make no mistake, the Bible can be understood in the English it has been translated into, but studying Greek will deepen our understanding of the Bible and its profound importance and benefit cannot be overstated. Mike has been (and is still on) a personal journey in learning Greek and discovering how it unlocks a more solid grasp of God’s word. He shares the meaning of the differences between Classical and Koine Greek, how this can enrich our comprehension of the Scriptures, and how it can help us bless and encourage others to embark on their own journey to more fully engage with this fundamental text. Don’t let the prospect of learning a little Greek frighten you–you will be amazed discovering just how much the scriptures will open up.

[Mike]

It says every word is God. I mean, when the scripture uses words they mean. The Holy Spirit used that word for a purpose to communicate something. Some that are so important that just one change in a syllable syllable. Can make a difference in what is being communicated there and when you have the English, you don’t necessarily capture all those.

[Jay]

Thank you for tuning into the Removing Barriers podcast. I’m Jay and I’m MCG. And we’re attempting to remove barriers so we can all have a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

This is episode 188 of the Removing Barriers Podcast, and in this episode, we will be sitting down with Mike, our guest from Episode 50, to talk about the importance of studying Greek as a student of the Bible.

[Jay]

Hi, this is Jay. MCG and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to removingbarriers.net and subscribing to receive all things, Removing Barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at: removingbarriers.net/donate. Removing Barriers, a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

Mike, it is indeed a pleasure. Welcome back to the Removing Barriers podcast.

[Mike]

It’s a pleasure being here. Thank you for asking me.

[MCG]

And you are at headquarters! In dino studios.

[Mike]

Yeah, it’s very impressive.

[Jay]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Very intimidating.

[MCG]

Your voice don’t sound intimidating.

[Mike]

Be surprised. I’m all jitters inside.

[MCG]

All right, brother, let’s get right into it. How did you begin your journey as a Greek student?

[Mike]

You want the long or the short the long. You want the long.

[MCG]

Yep.

[Mike]

OK. When I was first saved, the person that led me to Christ and I’ll say his name, Bruce Seeley, because you know, I’m so thankful. And by the way, I need to say up front. Get emotional when I get into things, so bear with me if I break into tears because you’re bringing things to memory. But he. Led me to Christ and one of the first things he told me. You know, you need to Start learning the word. And I didn’t have a Bible and he took me out to a bookstore and got me a. In this particular case, it was a new American standard. I didn’t know anything about Bibles or versions or anything like that, and so I started reading and came under conviction and eventually came to the point of. Deciding that this is all true, that this was something that I knew if I were to, and I talk with my hands so that if I hit the microphone off. Careful, in the course of studying and everything and having decided that I was going to follow Jesus, I wanted to know all I could about the Lord and about what his word said and the fellow that led me to the Lord. He told me, you know, there’s a. But. Of deceivers out there in the world now and a lot of people are saying things. Just plain are true. And you really have to be careful when you listen to them because they might say that they’re saying the word of the Lord, but when you check it out with the Bible, you’ll find it’s not true. And so just right then and there, I decided I want to know what the word of God. And so I. Well, as a new believer, I would go back to school and I’m going to learn all I can about the Bible and about the Lord and how to live my life. For Christ to be pleasing on him. Not knowing any better, I thought, well, the place I went to college the first year. They said that they were Christian. So I said, well, I’ll go back there and I’ll major in religion. So I went back to the school I went to and I took all the classes having to do with religion, major and everything. And one was Gree. Only it turned out that they didn’t have the Koine Greek. They had the attic Greek, so I didn’t know any better, so I figured Greek is Greek. So if the scriptures was written the New Testament was written in Greek, I’d learn Greek must be the same. But this was classical Greek and so.

[Jay]

And Koine is the Greek that the Bible was written in.

[Mike]

Yeah, Koine Greek and what the difference is is classical. Greek was the Greek that was used by the erudite. Those that wanted to write the classics. You’ll have Iliad, odyssey and all those things they were written in this classical. It came from Attica and around that area, but when Alexander the Great took over, he carried with him the Greek, and he brought it into all the different areas where he conquered and everything like that. And it became the language of the world. Only the Greek that now was being passed on was every. Greek. I mean, this was not the Greek that you would write a letter in or anything like this. Was the Greek that the everyday man on the street would understand? Was the common. That’s why it’s called Koine Greek.

[Jay]

Oh.

[Mike]

Koine is just plain common. This is what the common man would have. This was what you would find on Potshirs where they’ve written. Deeds or if they had a will, they wanted to write, or this was written in everyday language of the people. So it became the language. That the Lord could talk to the most people. God wants to communicate with people. And what better language to use than the one that everybody in that day could understand? And not only that, it was the language of the common people, the Koine. It was the man on the street. Is how he would talk. And so anyways, the difference was I learned a very. Rigid classical Greek that have a couple more forms and different things than Koine. It’s just a little more regular in some of its uses and everything like that. So I learned that and I enjoyed it very much. Me and another couple students there about 3 of us that really took it seriously and we were the if you want to say the curve Breakers. Because most of us we had aced the tests and things like that as we’d studied. And my goodness, I’d go around with boxes of flash cards where I’d be memorizing the conjugations, and I’d be memorizing the words and the different things like that and going through flash cards, which is always a great way to learn languages and everything like that. But it just became very important to me because the more I was learning it and the more I was finding that, well, you know, if I take a Greek new test. Testament using the attic Greek there isn’t much. I mean, it’s just more formalized and everything like that. But then after I left that school and I left there because as I was growing in grace in the knowledge of the Lord, specially the Bible. I found that well, they’re not really what I wanted in learning about how to serve Christ. And my Greek professor, in fact, he didn’t even believe in the resurrection. And so for me that was a problem. And some of the things that they wanted us to learn and to memorize and things like that had to do with secular things and even my English class. Was reading things that I did not feel I could even read. In good faith at me and a couple other students went to the school demonstrators and said, you know, we came here. You lay yourself out as a Christian School. Yet you have these things. The Bible says clearly, you know, stay away from those things. Well, they didn’t hear us. And so anyways, I left there. But after that, of course, I got married eventually. Karen was a gift from God and not long after we got married, we went down to Christ for the nation’s Bible school. In Dallas, TX, if you’re unfamiliar with it, it is very charismatic Pentecostal background. That’s the background I came in. 10/12 an when I got down there they did have cornet Greek and so I continued with that couple years and then also went into some of the Greek of the Septuagint. And from that point on, after I graduated from there. Now I went with an associate of ministries and not the full four years. Then I came back here to Virginia and went back to work, you know, looking for Lord, what do you want me to do? Basically, from then on, as far as Greek goes. Is a matter of continued self studying building up my vocabulary. Still using flash cards, I had rows of flash cards that I’d have in their little cards about yay big, and I’d go through them until I would. I would use word list that you can get and until I had memorized at least every word that was used at least. 10 times or more in the New Testament and then started on all words that from 10 and up to five times and up. And that’s a lot of words. Words. So from then on, Greek was basically just a tool to understand the word of God. And so that’s kind of long and short of how I got into Greek.

[Jay]

Do you still keep in contact with those other students that took Greek seriously, or have you found that studying Greek is something that’s common among Christians and they just kind of come alongside and study with you? Or is this more like a?

[Mike]

I wish. I wish it was, but no, I can’t say that I’ve. I’ve never gotten into a group that was. Let’s study the Greek together. Remember that when I came back here, I went back into. I’m basically a construction worker, although you know, I started in the trenches.

[MCG]

Mm.

[Mike]

For a company that worked for for 40 some years, and so I was still working, but I was also dealing. Dealing with teaching at church at the church, I was going to and leading music and some other things like that. It was basically just a continued use of my own. Oftentimes I would encourage. Hey, would you like to, you know, learn this or whatever it is? I can’t say I sought out those because. Greek was not so much something that I wanted to be part of a the Greek group. I just wanted to use it as a tool for me to understand the scriptures. And so I’m aware that there are like online groups. The B Greek group that they go into detail about some of the nitty gritties. But sometimes I went and looked at some of those, but oftentimes they get off into things that, oh, that’s nice. But how does that? Fit in. With living the life of Christ, how is that helping me to lead someone to? Jesus.

[Jay]

So when you’re teaching Greek, you mentioned that you, you know, when you’re teaching, say, Sunday school or something or whatever, teaching that you’re doing in the church when you bring in some Greek elements and you explain the words behind the English words, the Greek words, do you find. Children, do you find that people are receptive or and they’re like, oh, wow, I’d love to learn more. It more like a it’s all Greek to me. There like a. Is there like an apathy there, or is there like an interest there?

[Mike]

There’s a little of both.

[Jay]

OK.

[Mike]

I mean, you have those that are. They’ll come up later and say, wow, I didn’t know that. And you know, that really helps to understand the passage a little bit better when you understand that it has. A fuller meaning than what it has, and so I can’t say that I have a whole bunch of people that want to suddenly learn Greek. Wish there were. I wish I could encourage. Oftentimes, I will encourage young men that are going off to Bible school to take Greek study. It’s a lot of work to begin with, but it’ll save time in the long run. I mean, it’s an investment that. Often dividends the rest of your life. All. I took a couple years of Greek where I was an intensive study at two different schools and all, and I spent a lot of time, hours learning the forms and things like that. You know. Oh, I saw going through conjugations and and things. That, but it took hours. Now it’s paying off.

[MCG]

Hmm.

[Mike]

Thinking about what the scripture says about. Heart for the word of God, and I’m reminded of. Lovely.

[Mike]

Isaiah, where he talks about that, he’s really gonna give heed to and who he’s gonna pay attention is those who tremble at his word that they see.

[Jay]

His word is so real.

[Mike]

That it moves them and that’s what I would like to pass on to young men. As if you’d learned the word of God in the language that he spoke it to us in. You’ll pick up a lot of things that give you some clarity that just in the. English you don’t get. Not that you can’t understand the Bible without it, but that you get and I guess I’ve heard it put it in this type is you have a TV right there, and it’s a fairly high definition thing. You know, I grew up with the black and white when we first started that, and I could see it. Can understand everything wonderfully. But then when you go from a black and white little TV about, you know, a foot by a foot big, and then you go to one of these huge, you know, 84 inch or 89 screwed ultra high definition, everything like that, you can see the same. You can understand it and everything, but the color and the sound and everything. That’s what knowing the Greek of the Hebrew is like.

[MCG]

Hmm.

[Mike]

Is you can read it in English. And that’s. Anybody can learn that and the Holy Spirit can use that to lead you to Christ, to a full understanding. You’re not missing anything except for. If you want to say, like the coloration of it, you’re missing some of the nuances. You’re missing some of the techniques that the writers use. You’ll have ones that use alliteration. AME word with little beginnings and. Suffix prefixes over and over it again to make a point. And yet the English will not bring out that it’s the exact same word, just with different meanings and. What the author is using it? So it’s the difference between a black and white and a color TV. Maybe say that.

[MCG]

Cool.

[Mike]

Boy, you’ll get me preaching if you’re not careful.

[MCG]

I’m. So you’re very passionate about Greek? Are you part of in like Facebook group that Greek group or anything? You’re you’re touching that a little bit.

[Mike]

No, no, I I mean, I’m not so much passionate about the Greek as much as what it brings out from the word of God.

[MCG]

Utt your password. Any your password.

[Mike]

I wouldn’t do something like that. Not no.

[MCG]

OK. Let’s get into. You touched this a little bit, but I want you to dive a little bit deeper into the importance for Bible students to study Greek and why I think it touched a little bit. Dive a little bit deeper because most of the time I went to a Christian college, I was required to take Bible classes. But I wasn’t required to take Greek. I tell you story as well, I actually wanted. Preaching, you know, because I did a little bit of it as a teenager growing up there was this. Person who went off the Bible College and came back to the island and he was teaching us, you know, how to preach. I said OK, I’ll go off the Bible college. Going to take Preacher? And I wasn’t able to do it because you know at that point I was required to do SP101SP102 which is, you know, fundamentals of speech. But in order to get to do a preaching class, there’s other speech classes I would have. Take just to get to there and. Do the. So I’m imagining that if you’re not like a, you know pastorial missionary, you know, kind of ministry student, Bible or whatever the case may be. Most colleges won’t allow you to Electively take Greek. Don’t know, but that might be the case.

[Jay]

Let me tack onto that as well because there’s an understanding, or at least a belief common in these circles where if you have the KJV, that’s God’s word for the English speaking people and you don’t need anything else. So some people go so far as to say you don’t need to study Greek. What you need to study Greek for, so I mean. On to. So why is studying the Greeks so important? If we have translations in our own language?

[Mike]

O to begin with, you’re dealing with the translation. God spoke his word. Every word of God is. Say of penistas, it’s God breathed. He breathed out these words in Greek and Hebrew, depending on or depending on what you’re looking at when you’re translating it. There is in any one language to another language. Never a one to one correspondence. And so the translators, whether it be King James translators or. Be living Bible translators. They have. They’ll look at the Greek and they’ll have to make a determination of, well, how can they best express what they’ve read there in English? Hearers and you might have one person here that is very astute at those things and very knowledgeable, and he’ll do a very good job of. You’ll have someone else here that he just really wants to sell some books. And so he just has to make it different enough that it doesn’t infringe on copyright in some way or another. And so he’s not that careful about it. He doesn’t care. Whether it’s word for word translation, it becomes just a what they call dynamic. It has a sense of it, but it’s not the words but the words it says every word. Word is God. I mean, when the scripture uses words they mean. The Holy Spirit used that word for a purpose to communicate something. Some that are so important that just one change in a salable syllable. Can make a difference in what is being communicated there and when you have the English, you don’t necessarily capture all those, and I think the best way to illustrate it is something that was kind of humorous to me. Early on I heard this. One preacher that was preaching. And he was using the King James, and he was speaking from Hebrews 11. And he was talk about now. Faith is the substance of things hoped for. The evidence of things not seen. But he went on for it must have been 45 minutes to an hour, elaborating on how it was now F. 8th NOW. Was now. He used it like an adjective and he says now, and he went on and on about this without realizing, well, the Greek doesn’t support that at all. Mean in the Greek it’s just this one little. Word day, which is used hundreds of times, which is just a connective word to connect up sentences and things like that. Wasn’t an. It’s just you’ll see it over and over again as a connective. You can help to. Know where new thought? Where new sentence begins and he went on and on. Basically used. This and I’m writing and I’m writing Delta Epsilon with my fingers. But he. Take that word and he’d be defining it as now. Why this face this? Faith is here today and he went on and on and built his whole message on a particle that had nothing to do with what he was preaching on.

[MCG]

Oh wow.

[Mike]

If he had just known a little Greek just looked at it and said, Oh no, wait a minute, that’s that’s not really an adjective. Not really an adverb continuing this or whatever he could have saved himself from ridicule. From scholars that know Greek and they said this guy’s just making a fool of himself and presenting himself as a teacher of God. And yet this is how he’s handling it. That’s what the scripture talks. Those who handle it, they corrupt the word of God as they don’t handle it properly. Don’t rightly divide the word of. And you mentioned the scripture about, you know, being studied to show yourself approved unto God rightly were to be rightly dividing the word of God and. The Greek just helps you make sure that you are presenting it accurately. In most instances, in most cases an English speaking person should have no problem with the King James version, with most versions of having enough there to know very clearly what God demands of them and all. But if you are going to teach the word of God to other people. My goodness, you listen to what James says about let not many be teachers because you know you’re going to be held accountable for what you’re telling other people. If you’re going to teach the word of God, you better be sure you’re teaching them the truth. Then you’re not going off like this guy TV evangelist that just made a mockery of the exposition. Scriptures.

[MCG]

What about the pushback? If someone said, hey, you know, formal equivalency word for word preinary interpretation of. So the word for word, if that is a push back to what you just said, what would be a response?

[Mike]

You mean it being acceptable to be just a dynamic equivalence is just, well, I captured the meaning. What the words themselves.

[MCG]

Right, yeah.

[Mike]

Right. Well, the trouble is, words mean. The Holy Spirit chose words. Those words often time. Well, let.

[MCG]

Clarified I think what I’m saying is that, you know, formal equivalency is instead of translating thoughts like dynamic equivalents or what you think they’re taught or the passage is saying is you translate it word for word and if it’s OK well. Even using the same passage you said now, faith is a substance of things over and you said OK, that now was it in degree. So are you saying that wasn’t a formal equivalent? Translation. I guess I’m trying to get exactly what you’re saying here. I think I got it, but I just want to get some clarity on that.

[Mike]

OK. On the particular that we’re talking about, that is Hebrews. One is I’m not saying that now is a wrong translation. OK, but in our use of languages, sometimes you use filler words. Some words can be and if also in addition to, I mean they can be translated many different ways. There’s a lot of leeway in how they can be translated, but their connection words, their conjunctions, there’s interjections, there’s all different particles. That can be used, but in translating it into the English to get it into a flow that you can understand. Sometimes they had to add things just to make it fit the language of English.

[MCG]

OK, I following.

[Mike]

You without it being a very stuttered type of thing if you do it just a word for word. Like if you took an interlinear, you had the Greek text and you’ll have an interlinear that has a translation under it. It’s a good translation, but it doesn’t flow very.

[MCG]

Right, right.

[Mike]

It it’s very rigid and it doesn’t flow. The King James, they did a wonderful job of giving us a translation that flows.

[MCG]

Yeah. And people that know more than one language, much like my wife. You know, usually when you convert from one language to. Next, when he go word for word, we can get the general meaning. He wouldn’t form a full sentence as we will speak in English.

[Jay]

OK, so I can understand how for someone that is preaching the word of God knowing Greek would be great, beneficial and not just for them in their study of the text, but also in clarifying and expositing the scriptures for the listeners. But what about? Regular, everyday Christians who read their Bibles pray everyday like the song says, do they benefit? They benefit from a deeper understanding of Greek. It necessary to understand the scriptures. Studying a little bit more Greek.

[Mike]

My answer is going to be yes or no.

[MCG]

Then.

[Jay]

OK.

[Mike]

Do they need? No, I mean there’s proof enough millions of people that have been born again have been born again and they don’t know a word of Greek.

[Jay]

Sure. Yeah.

[Mike]

All Greek to them. But then again, it’s how much you want to dive into the word of. It’s like a goldmine. You have to search in it and find it. And everyday Joe with the materials that are available now online and the things that are available here. It doesn’t have to be such a great effort to look into, well, what does that word mean, you know, and I’ll give an example. You were in the class with us when we run this in preaching from First John, but you come to a place. In John, where it says if you commit sin, you’re of the devil. Basically, now, if you’re a new believer. And you come to that and you say if I commit sin, I’m of the devil. What does that mean? You know, don’t you need to look it up and find? Because if on a first reading to a new person that said that, well, I’m in trouble.

[Jay]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Because you know, there’s not. Hardly a day goes by that I’m not conscious that I have done something that was not out of faith, and so it’s therefore it’s sin. And so. Sin. But then when you dig into what did they mean by? And you look up the word behind it and it’s a combination of not just the word, but also the syntax. It’s in the tense. It’s in things like that. It’s very clearly. The one and I think you heard me say that. The one that continues and has given themselves. To sin is of the devil, and that’s where it was fascinating for me when I came to that, as I had to say, well, why did the translators of the King James put that word commit in there? And then I went back and I said, well, let’s see. How is that used back in the 1600s and all the word commit and you find out that. Its primary emphasis back then was someone that was wholly given to something, and so he that is wholly given to sin. He is of the devil, the scriptures clear of it. And Jesus talks about those scribes and Pharisees as your father, the devil. Because they did the deeds of their father, the devil. And it’s those that are continuing wholly committed to sin that are of the devil because they are doing his works and all, and you find that it was basically a translation of word that is a very simple word, work or do, but it’s in. A continuing. It’s in a present active indicative, which is who is continuing, who makes this a practice. And so it brings the whole. That means a whole lot different than just commit. When we think of commit, we normally think they do it, and that’s it. You know, we think of it as a punctilier type of thing. If you commit sin, you’re of the devil. My am I in trouble?

[MCG]

Mm.

[Mike]

But when you say if your heart is given to sin, you’re committed to doing it, practicing and everything like that. It’s a clear indication that your father’s the devil. You’re not following God.

[Jay]

And that nuance you would have been able to discern apart from knowing a little bit of Greek.

[Mike]

Not necessarily Greek. You could have gone to the commentaries and they would have told you the same thing. See and that’s another. You know, you were saying? Well, why else would you take Greek? Well. One of the problems is when you really want to search into the history of something, or how men of old have spoken about it so often they’ll go into an explanation of it and then they’ll go into Greek, or they’ll go into Latin. And if you don’t have a little bit. Of understanding about. You missed the very clear their main point they’re trying to say something about that. That’s why sometimes I get frustrated in some of the old authors, they’ll go to Latin. And I don’t know Latin. You know I have. I’ll look up Latin words and things like that, but they’ll come to this conclusion and their conclusion? They’ll write it in Latin said I’m reading this commentary and I thought it was really good and I come to his main conclusion and he goes to Latin and I Don. Latin. So I don’t benefit from the knowledge that he has gained without having to. I’ve had to ask people that knew Latin well. What did he say? You know, but that’s. Like if you want to look up what that commit means, you can go to a commentary and depending on the commentary, they may either be an evangelical commentary or could be a very unbelieving commentary.

[Jay]

Right.

[Mike]

So even that you have to be careful of what you’re reading because there are many. As the scripture says, false prophets and false teachers.

[MCG]

Yeah, that was going to be my next question because I’m glad you said that because I’m not necessarily want to show this guy on the bus. But Jay-Z McGhee. Maybe one of the best commentaries out there through the Bible with Jay Vernon McGee. Of course we have Matthew, Henry and all others commentary that we use, but. At least one hit against him is that he believed in the gap theory. He believes that there’s a onnumerable number of times faced between Genesis 11 and Genesis 1/2, so that will give rise to evolution and stuff like that. But everything else from most part of listen to him and use him. Even have his commentary on my computer. It’s pretty good, at least from what. So go into. You have to be realizing that you. In someone else study and the good thing about Greek is that if you at least learn it a little bit, I don’t know Greek, not even close to the level that you are. But if you know it a little bit, you can go to the Greek and say. What did the Greeks say here if it’s difficult? But I think a lot of the pushback would go directly what Jay just said. You know, why is it that I need to go learn this archaic language when I can get the same thing from commentaries and from Bible studies? And I don’t have to learn, you know, cornea Greek, which, you know, if not even. Spoken today.

[Mike]

Well, you hit upon something. That really has changed. 50 years ago, 100 years ago. My answer would be completely different. But nowadays, while I encourage people and I would encourage young men that are going into the ministry, that ought to be a must do, because if you’re going to be rightly dividing the word of God, you need to know what it says. Every man day on the street now. There’s so much information, so easily available for them to look that U that you don’t need to spend years and years learning it where it’s right there at the click of a thing you have, for instance, many people perhaps are familiar with. Scripture hub or I forget whether I’m saying the right name, Bible hub and all. But where would Bible hub?

[Jay]

Yeah, Bible hub.

[Mike]

You can have an interlinear right. You can click on a word and it will. It’ll give you thares explanation. It’ll give you Ladell and Scott’s from attic. You’ll give it Moulton, Milligan from the papyrus and all the other writings and things like. The Press of the button you can get all those definitions and how it’s used in other places. The same word is used and you don’t have to be. Scholar. So now I would say for the common everyday person, just use the tools that are there for you to use. And don’t just sit there and say, well, what does submit mean and not look into it. Look it up. Don’t. Yeah. You have so many resources now.

[Jay]

So many resources today.

[Mike]

It up, don’t be. I’m afraid a lot of us have become lazy in our scripture study, and we’re unwilling to spend the time in the effort to dig in it. And I mean it’s like and you’ll hear it like an often times to a mining for gold or for diamonds or whatever. It takes a lot of work sometimes and some. Just you know, they just want to hear the surface, the fluff top, and that’s enough to keep them happy and going. So it depends on how much stock you put in it being the God breed, the just the idea that God has spoken and he’s given us what. And he has it there to communicate it to us, and we ought to take that saying seriously. You know, as those that tremble at his word, if anything else, if I can encourage people to realize how important that is, it is God speaking.

[MCG]

What about if someone we push back using this argument because for instance, strong concordance? I’m sure you probably use it. The strong. Do you use it right?

[Mike]

Among many others.

[MCG]

But how do you validate what the strong concordance is? Saying it would have to be a great scholar to basically say, hey, I just agree with this strong concordance or I disagree with these.

[Jay]

You mean like? Defining the Greek word Greek word.

[MCG]

Right. Or these, all these theologians that are saying, hey, this is what is being spoken here, this might be outside the scope of this episode, but I just wonder what you say to that.

[Mike]

Well, what I’d say to that is you have to be wise. A serpent, harmless as dove. You have to realize you’d mentioned earlier some of the commentaries, some of the scholars of the day are very unbelieving scholars. So their interpretation of something may be totally from a humanistic view. And there have been words in the past that I’ve come across and I go to a lexicon and there are many lexicons out there now, and I see the meaning of the word. A word is only used maybe one time. In the New Testament or something and he gives a certain meaning to it. And I say that just doesn’t fit. And so I had to dig and I’d go to other lexicons. I’d go to other Greek works that show that same word used in the literature of the day. Or in the literature of the early fathers. And I start reading. You find it in context and you read the sentence that that word was used in, and by seeing how they’re using. The word I came to the conclusion well that guy’s off. I mean, he is jaded in his thinking of why he gave it this interpretation that he’s missing. What the real meaning is now that takes work and that takes digging. And I’m not saying that that’s what every person needs to do. But if you’re going to teach the word of God, and if you’re going to say what it’s saying, you need to do that on. You need to be wary that who are you learning it from? Are you learning it from an unbelieving person, or is it someone that is wholeheartedly given to the word of God as being inspired? Tired and can’t be broken and unfortunately nowadays we have a lot of stuff out there that is written by scholars that. They really are unbelievers. Yep.

[MCG]

All. Well, you’re listening to the removing virus. We’re sitting out with Mike and we’re talking about. The imortance of studying Greek, after all, is just Greek to me.

[Jay]

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[Jay]

Plus tickets to the Creation Museum and Ark encounter go to the answers bookstore by clicking the link in the description section below. So you too can be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks the reason of the hope that is in you. OK, Mike, so. You shared with us what the imortance is in studying Greek for getting a deeper, richer understanding of the word of God as he gave it to us in time, which is important because. I think we forget that the Bible is not only true in terms of its theology and what it teaches, but it was written down and brought to us through the historical process, historically true as well. And so obviously it’s going to be tied to whatever language. That it was. You know. Was written in when the Lord moved people to write it. So what are two or more passages? Where the interpretation or the understanding of the passage is made clearer because of an understanding of Greek where you get nuance and you get a deeper understanding because you know the Greek behind it and not just say in our. English that we’re reading.

[Mike]

Well, one I’ve already mentioned is the one where if we commit, I mean when you dig into that it clarifies it so much. And I don’t know if I can immediately jump to certain ones, but I guess an example I could give. And again, this is from first John, because oftentimes that’s the closest thing in my mind is because I’ve been working on it and all is when John was speaking about. Believing in the Lord Jesus Christ and remaining in him. He will use emphasis that you don’t always see clearly, and I’ll turn to the passage. I’m just thinking of in first John in the second chapter. Don’t know if it’s so much as understanding what it’s saying as much as realizing how John is trying to. Emphasize something, because if you look in the end of Chapter 2 and start with in verse 24, it talks about. Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning, if that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in your son and in the father, and down here in verse 27 but the anointing which ye have. Of him abides in you and you need not any men teach you, but is the same anointing teaches you. And his truth, and is no lie. And even as has taught you, ye shall abide in him. Now you have some words. You have abide, you have remained. Have continue. You have the continuing and. What you don’t realize is it’s the same exact word that John is using in Greek and you don’t see that immediately. It’s like he’s punching this. He’s talking about this now. It’s not a mistranslation at all, because men know it can mean remain continue. Abide. It can have all those ranges and it just puzzles me sometimes is why the translators in this case didn’t keep it in the same type of thing that the John was using the same word. To punch out to make it clear of remaining abiding. In him and they. Each different word, instead of letting you see that it’s the same word and he’s just like he’s punching it and saying you need to remain in him, continue in him, abide in him, they all have the same. Coming from the same word, but you don’t see that if you don’t. Go into a little bit understanding about that and then you have the same type of thing. Guess you look in Romans. And he will use words I mentioned before that how sometimes he’ll use words that have suffices and prefixes that are a little bit different. In Romans 12, you know, following the passage that most people know that be not conformed to this world, the next verse. For this, I say through grace, this verse 3 of Romans 12. For I say through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly according to his God has deal. Every man, the measure of faith. He uses this one word for now that he has a suffix to. No, prefix which is don’t hoop air. Don’t overthink. You know. Don’t think more highly. Then he uses it in a different. And he uses this continuously a couple times just to punch through. His thought here is that we need to think soberly. We need to think wise mindedly and it’s just adding on to a prefix to the same word about being minded of something. But in this case the prefix means like a wholeness or it comes from the same word that you have Sojo South. So this wholeness thinking this salvation thinking the way he puts it is he’s framing it all around this one word. That’s to have your mind set on something, don’t have it over here, you know, don’t have it too high, but have it here in a wise position every. It’s like he’s just saying it over and over again, but you don’t pick that up. That he’s using this same word to paint a picture and that brings up, you know, one. One of the my favorite books in studying the Greek and everything like that is Robertson’s word pitches in the New Testament. And that’s just what it is. The words they paint a picture in your mind, and sometimes you don’t get the picture if you don’t see how the words are being used. So that particular reference, his word pictures he. That and he shows some of the. Things that are being pictured and framed in your mind, from the words that are being. So I don’t know, haven’t looked up what he says about that, but I’m sure he’ll probably make a comment about how these are all coming from the same word there. But that’s just an example of how just knowing. The Greek words behind it just again fills in the color that you missed. If you don’t know it.

[MCG]

Alright, I’m going to put you on the spot, brother.

[Mike]

Probably all right.

[MCG]

I’m going to put you on the spot. So of course I think this is a. You’re very familiar with in John 21, when Jesus actually came and showed himself to these disciples and they were fishing, and then they were dining. So verse. So when they had dined Jesus, this John. 21 O when they are dying, Jesus said to. Peter Simon, son of Jonas Lovest thou me more than these? He said unto him. Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He said unto him. Feed my lambs, he said unto him again the second time. Simon, son of Jonas Lovest thou me? He said unto. Here, Lord thou knowest that I love thee. He threatened. Feed my sheep and then verse 17, he said unto him. Third time Simon, son of Jonas Lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him, the third. Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord thou knowest all things. Thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus said unto him, feed my sheep. Now, I’ve heard many explanations for this. And one explanation I heard that Candace stood out with me and I want to know what you think. You do Greek scholar here.

[Mike]

Now you just opened the door for me to say. Remind you what I said. Not a Greek. I’m a student of the word and I use it as a tool. I cut you off purposely.

[MCG]

So this is that when Jesus said Simon son of Jonas Love is domestic, Simon Agape. Me as Simon said Ye, Lord, thou knowest I feel you. 4D is that. Ull out the Greek out of this passage for me and enlighten us.

[Mike]

Well, it sounds like you’ve already heard about. And this is one of the most well known passages where you miss something without digging in a little bit deeper. And The thing is, it’s just that is Jesus agape and Peter answers.

[MCG]

Oh.

[Mike]

Phileo, you know, and both words you have to understand, both words are love. But they’re a little bit different types of love as agape. Is a full. Love of giving of yourself. A. That is an affectionate love. Not not love. Is. It’s just a. It’s not the same type of full love. So what irritated Peter so much? Is Jesus says, agape and he says, Phileo says, agape, says Phileo. The third time, he says, Phileto do you love me? And he got irritated because he now he’s not asking. Him that he’s just saying, do you fill out? You love me. Do you love me for that type of care? You know I do. And still, Jesus says, you know, feed my sheep, my lambs and all that. But yeah, it’s just a change from putting Peter on the spot. Saying, Are you ready to give your life for me? And he said, you know, I’m affectionately, I love you.

[Mike]

You know you are dear to me and all feed my lambs, sheep, whatever, but. So you’ve heard that before, and that’s what you’ll hear. That is the normal explanation of it. I don’t disagree with what most scholars say about that.

[MCG]

OK. Just wanted to make sure. Alright, we should someone that if they would like to learn Greek, you know, I’m fresh out of Greek. And of course you don’t want to scare them off and. How should they start?

[Mike]

There are so many things available now online that all you have to do is just put in your web browser. Learn Greek. Learn Koine Greek. Better yet, learn Koine. You don’t want to start getting into Attic Greek, but anyways you do that and you’re going to have so many resources. Are so many groups now that have put out? Studies that you can do online, you can do it from a home. There are also workbooks that you can. Get for those that really want to learn it. There’s plenty of material out there. You have to do is put in your searcher. Know Koine Greek. Learn it.

[Jay]

And all of them have the mic step of approval. Or is there 1 you really prefer?

[Mike]

I’ve looked at some of them and The thing is I can’t put my approval one way or another because as I’ve told you, I’m not a Greek scholar. If their method of teaching it gets the person to know to Start learning and everything like. Like that, that’s the best thing is if they’re doing it in such a way that they motivate you to continue in it. Because I’ll be frank with you, that if someone really wants to learn and I guess I’ll put it from my own experience, I wanted to learn enough Greek that I could pick up my Greek and I didn’t bring my Greek New Testament with me. If I could pick it up, open it up and I could start reading it.

[MCG]

Mm.

[Mike]

I wanted to get to that point. I didn’t want to get to the point where I knew why this word is changed and you is changed into a V back in certain century and how this did that and how they changed. I don’t care about that. I want. Know what the word said and what the Holy Spirit has breathed out. If you want to get to the point where you can read it, it’s going to require work. You’ll have to memor. I mean, it’s made-up of words and you can get word lists online where you can make up little flash cards and you can go down and word every word that is used more than 100 times in the New Testament. That’s a good start. And then go down to every word that’s used more than 50 times in the New Testament and before you know it, as you build your vocabulary. You’ll be able to hold your Greek Bible in your hand, and you won’t have to go to the lexicon every time you get to a new word because you know, when I first started, I’d start reading it. I said, well, I’m not sure what that word. And I’d have to look it up and I’m not sure what that word means. Have to look it up. Not that I can read everything in there without needing a. I still carry a lexicon or I don’t carry it. Now I do. If you consider my phone, my lexicon knob.

[MCG]

Now go to. You have one in your pocket someplace.

[Mike]

I was looking forward but I I must have left it in my coat but on there I had the Greek text. I have access to the online. Thing where I can get immediate definitions of the words. I can look it up, I can look up the major sources. You’d look for the history behind words and things like that. So now I can take my new. And when I come to a new word, I can immediately, you know, flick over to the other thing and look up that word. That perhaps was a one time word in the New Testament. What? Hypoxelic common or whatever. But anyways, I can look those things up when I need to. I can’t say I can read the whole New Testament without having a lexicon beside me because there are many words that are used just one time and I’m not ready to expend my time right at this moment memorizing every single word.

[Jay]

Let me ask you this. In our world today, there’s a plethora. Just tons of translations of the English Bible, and for many of the more solid, if you could call them that, the more serious ones. Not talking about, like, Queer Bible or the Bible for African people or anything like that. Talking about like. Very serious translations of the Bible in. So let’s put, say, the King James, the ESV, the Nasb, and I don’t know any few other serious ones. Many of these translators decided, hey, you know, we don’t like the Greek that the KJV is based on. Here’s this text. It’s older. And it’s better, somehow. We’re going to take that and we’re going to make our own translation, then a whole bunch of people go off and do the same thing with different ones. Would you say that the reason we have a ton of English translations of the Bible is because of this? Not understanding the Greek or just like a pursuing of the Greek to where it proliferates and everybody. Trying to find the best translation. Is it because of the Greeks that we have all of these new translations or is it something else?

[Mike]

You’re asking a bigger question, or I think you know you’re asking a bigger question that just requires a simple answer. OK. And I had to just go back historically a little bit about where this all began and if you don’t want me to get into that much detail. Stop me and let me know. But a lot of looking at translations and everything and these people that are saying, well, I’m going to use this text, it’s better or whatever. A lot of them are not coming from the same. Perspective that I would come from and a lot of this is going to have to be my opinion, although it is supported by many, many other faithful men that just as the Old Testament scriptures were entrusted to the Jews to propagate and to keep and to. Preserve and all you have to do is do a study in how they did that to realize how careful they were at preserving it, just as the Old Testament the Jews were given that task. The New Testament Paul talks about the church being the pillar and foundation of the truth in the New Testament. New covenant it’s been entrusted to. Kerch to be the one that upholds this they’re going to be the ones that are going to be the one of the words it uses. There has to do the bulwark and that’s something that doesn’t move, you know. The pillar it’s what holds up things. So the church is to be. The bulwark and the pillar of the truth. It’s now the church that has preserved the word, and The thing is, I’m of the conviction that. God is surely able to preserve his word every generation. And unfortunately, all these that come along and say, well, the newest or the oldest is the better or whatever. They’re going from a completely different logic. My conviction is that when the Apostles wrote these or those that wrote the New Testament text, when they were written, there was great care in the church that it was. That it was spread around and that so many copies were made that you couldn’t have a problem with deciding. Well, you know, which is the text that the. I can’t believe that somehow the best text was hidden from the church for hundreds of years.

[MCG]

If I’m 400 years.

[Mike]

Or in in well when you look at you talking about more thousand when you’re looking into the 1800s and all when you get some of the earlier ones that are finding some of these things and said, oh, we found the best texts. Everything. It’s old so. Must be better. I can’t believe that God had that hidden somewhere and kept it from his church. Pure word. What you find is there are so many copies of what’s called the receive text. They might have minor differences like letters changing or things like that, but they’re in such close agreement that most textual critics such as lump them together and they don’t give them a whole lot. Weight. And yet, personally, I believe that God is able to. Preserve his word faithfully for us, and so if I look at what has the church been using and by the church, I mean the believers, those that are true believers, born again believers and you follow both the eastern and the western side and you see that it’s the. Text that we have behind the king. You have some minor. This is a whole nother subject. There are debates on and books on and everything about, well, how much did Erasmus? Or you know what text did he have available or anything like that? I don’t think it’s up to. I think it’s up to the spirit of the Lord to reserve it and that he has used men to keep it together. So I’m just of the conviction. That, my God, that he preserved the Old Testament so faithfully through the Jews, that he’s able to preserve it through his church, that what I have in my hand, what I have behind here is essentially what he spoke. Course that’s translation, but that’s why I think that what makes King James the best? Because it’s based on the text that God has preserved for us.

[MCG]

I’m going to go on a little bit long here because Episode 69 we have KJV under Canon of Scripture and it episode 1. 83 we have widely K JV and this kind of lead into the next question, but one of the big hits against the KJV is. The readability issue which most people can’t read it, understand it, which I think is the weakest argument that Christian can use. No, I don’t usually push back on Christians, because if you’re saved, signify on your way to heaven. I’m not necessarily want to have a King James version argument with you, so to speak. Or even at the door when I go witnessing. But I think the readability issue is such a weak argument. There are many studies out there that have shown that the KJV is at a 6th grade level reading. Many of these modern translations are at 8-9 grade level. Reading 0. The readability win in most. Them right. But let’s put that aside, because that’s not the important thing. The readability is not. The important thing is what is this being backed by and when you look at it and you say, OK, you talk about the text of receptors where we have over 5000, some 5250 texts that. Prove that this is solid and with no. All this minus stuff that not a issue and compared to the critical text where their contradictions in this text and plus you have. Dynamic equivalency with is translating the thoughts rather than preclinically word for word. You know, formal. So when you look at that incompatible of them, it’s not about readability, it’s about trustworthiness. And I just hate it when Christians say, oh, well, it could give you can understand. Well, do you want to go to something that’s not trustworthy, like the critical? Because the KGB cannot be understood. No. And again, I don’t really make it an issue. Speaking to my brothers and sisters in Christ, most of the. But I find that to be such a weak argument when they say readability, I’m like you comment on that, and then I’m going to go into the question.

[Mike]

As far as readability, I’m sure you have seen the studies. Then I guess I forget the name of the way that they rate readability, but as you mentioned the Bible because of the number of syllables and the words that are used and the vocabulary and things like that. It is. The quiescence of. Yes, there are some words. They’re antiquated. That is the biggest hang up for most people. They over. How many words have been? And so they said, well, I can’t understand that. Well, if they just take out their dictionary and they look up the word or something, they’ll find out what it means now or what it meant then. And it’s not that. I think it’s just an excuse the devil uses to keep people out of studying the word and this excuse. He has attacked the word of God ever since the garden, and I don’t expect he’s gonna stop it. Packing it now and he wants to keep people away from. Umm. The truth?

[MCG]

Yeah, well, I agree. Next question, I think everybody answer this. Did the KJV chancellor get it right? So why are there so many translations after? I think you already hit the nail on the head, so we think we can move on from that one.

[Jay]

So what do you think that we would be better off if we all learned the Greek as members of the church? Let’s say, not just pastors, not just lay preachers, not just the Sunday school teacher, but the folks in the Pew as well. Do you think we would be better off if we all learned Greek or studied the Bible in Greek?

[Mike]

In a perfect world. It would be great and the day will come from my understanding in the scriptures where he will return a one language to where we’ll all understand each other. And it would be wonderful if every one that professes the name of Christ could read it in the Greek. Is that practical?

[Jay]

Probably not sure.

[Mike]

No, but certainly there’s no reason not to, because there’s so much advantage to being knowing a little bit about it so that. You you can defend when someone comes up and says, John says, that he was a God. Just a God. And if you know just a little bit of Greek, you say now, wait a minute. Let’s pull out the Greek New Testament. God, divine Theos, that is quality and characteristic he is. He is God is not saying he’s a. It says his quality and characteristic is God and that was just from a little knowledge of, you know, the Greek behind that. Course you know.

[MCG]

Are the articles in Greek like?

[Mike]

No. So they well. There are many deceivers out in the world. Are many false. There are many false prophets and sometimes a little smattering of understanding. The more you grow in your knowledge of the word of God, whether you learn it in King James, whether you you know, learn it in Greek, the more knowledge you have of that, the more you are. To defend. Against liars and against deceivers.

[Jay]

I mention if everyone had an understanding of Greek, it wouldn’t stop a lot of the back and forth. We have about certain Bible doctrines because we’re still on this side of glory and there’s always going to be. Tiffs and things of that nature, like for example in Ephesians where it says in love he predestinated us. When it gets to the Greek underneath, they argue back and forth like you’ve mentioned, the minutiae of it. Is that comma supposed to? Is it before in love or after or after love or what does it mean? It mean that Calvinism is right or does not mean. And so anyway, I say all that to say that even if we all understood Greek, and even if we all studied the Bible in Greek, there will always. Sort. Let’s get down to the nitty grit and figure out what this one says. So perhaps on this side of glory won’t fully get to.

[Mike]

One thing that I love reading in. Where it says and there was number small dispute among them and. Is among the apostles. This is a path. These are those that had spoken with Jesus face to face. No small dispute, you know, so I imagine that even if we all knew perfectly the Greek language, Cornyn Greek, and we could read the whole New Testament, we would still have disagreements.

[Jay]

Yeah. Yeah. But the Bible? Is. I was listening to an interview that Jordan Peterson gave and Jordan Peterson is this huge this huge guy now in the. And he talked about how even as I don’t, he’s a believer. But even as an unbeliever, he found the Bible to be just. Inexhaustible every time he went back to read it, there’s something new, something different. That he didn’t see or didn’t understand before, which blows my mind that he could come to that realization about the Scriptures and still not be saved. At any rate, I imagine if the Bible is like that when we’re. It in English how much more so if we understand a little bit of the Greek behind it and to get a little bit more of a deeper knowledge of the mind of God, wouldn’t that be fantastic? Would be something.

[Mike]

You know, you didn’t really ask a question other than that.

[Jay]

No, I didn’t.

[Mike]

Than wouldn’t that be? Yes, that would be something, but all I can say is from personal experience is being able to read. Then I said no, wait a. I really want to look into that a little bit more. To open the Greek New Testament and read and say. Wow. You know, and you’re.

[Mike]

Every time you’ll see some new things in there. It’s because the word of God is living and it’s active, and it’s a discern of the intents of the heart and everything like that.

[Jay]

Yeah.

[Mike]

It does just provide a wealth of tools to help mind the word of God. And so there it is.

[MCG]

You know all. Well, why don’t we wrap up with? How does someone find favor with God? According to the Greek.

[Mike]

That will be a very direct and easy answer. The same way it does in the English.

[MCG]

Hey man.

[Mike]

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and to expand on that. Take a example from the amplified Bible. Believe, you know, believe, rely on adhere to all those things built into that word. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you’ll be saved. What pleases? Well, he tells us this. Believe on. His name? It pleases God. And without faith, it’s impossible to please him. Means the same in. It means the same in Greek without faith, without that full reliance on him, it’s impossible to please him. Put your faith in God. Put your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

[MCG]

Amen. Mike, you said you’re not a scholar, but your scholar to me.

[Mike]

I’ve got you, fool.

[MCG]

Thank you for joining us and removing barriers.

[Mike]

My pleasure. You.

[MCG]

Great.

[Jay]

This is the removing barriers podcast. If the podcast or the blog were a blessing to you, leave us a rating and a review on your favorite podcast platform. And don’t forget to share the podcast with your friends, removing barriers, a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

Thank you for listening. To get ahold of us to support this podcast or to learn more about removing barriers, go to removing barriers net. This has been the removing barriers. We attempted to remove barriers so that we all can have a clear view of the cross.