Episode 169

Famous atheist Richard Dawkins set the internet ablaze for a moment when he lamented Britain’s celebration of Ramadan over Easter, called himself a cultural christian, and warned that the loss of the Christian culture in Britain would be a dreadful thing. It is indisputable that the West was largely built on Christian values and ethos, and the resulting culture has been a tree of blessing for all living under its branches, regardless of their personal faith and conviction. Where it has been found lacking, great strides have been made to lift the downtrodden. Can you have Christian culture without Christians? Dawkins has said these things before, but the question remains: is there any such thing as a cultural Christian? What does that even mean? In this episode of the Removing Barriers podcast, we react to Dawkins’ interview with LBC, evaluate his assertions according to the Bible, and point out the dangerous results that can come from thinking that culture is in any way disconnected from faith.

[Jay]

It sounds like he’s saying he likes all of the fruit of Christianity, but he doesn’t want Christianity. He doesn’t like or believe in Christianity. He wants the tree without the roots, the blessings. Without the obedience, the rest without the work, the Christendom without Christ. But that’s not possible.

Thank you for tuning in to the Removing Barriers podcast. I’m Jay and I’m MCG and we’re attempting to remove barriers so we can all have a clear view of the costs.

[MCG]

This is episode 169 of the Removing Barriers Podcast and in this. Episode. We will be responding to a recent interview of Richard Dawkins by Rachel Johnson on LBC radio. Rachel and darkens discuss Easter and the fall of the dominance of Christianity in British culture.

[Jay]

Hi, this is Jay. MCG and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to removingbarriers.net and subscribing to receive all things, removing barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at removing barriers.net/donate, removing barriers. A clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

Alright, so we have a number of clips lined up that we want to go through with this interview of Richard Dawkins by LBC Radio Rachel Johnson. Here is the first clip.

[Rachel Johnson]

Professor Dawkins, it’s very good to have you join us to discuss whether it matters that Christianity is playing a diminishing role in national life. Welcome to LBC.

[Richard Dawkins]

Thank you.

[MCG]

Now, Jay, that’s interesting to me because. Know how she set up the conversation? She did not ask if Christianity is playing a diminishing role, but declared that it is, and this is something the world has seen. Yet some Christians are refusing to admit it, and this is true even in the US. You know. Christianity is playing a diminishing role or dominance is winning. Definitely. In the UK, the same for the rest of Europe. If you want to consider the UK and Europe being the same and America and I don’t know it, it just said that a lot of Christians are not seeing. It. I don’t think America is as far gone as Europe or even the UK, but we’re not far behind and one way we can prove that. Is look at the television shows produced by Hollywood in the 60s. Seventeen the. 80s here you can talk about the under Griffith Show later within the Perry compared to the film that was on TV today.

[Jay]

I would like to have known what exactly she meant by diminishing role because he is obviously going to refer to the fact that he’s a cultural Christian and that. As a superficial role that the church plays in terms of the cultural influence, when I say superficial, it just means that it’s not a root level issue. It’s the fruit of the root. So all of these wonderful things, the context of this conversation, was Easter being supplanted by Ramadan. In certain areas in Britain, and she was asking him whether that’s a good thing or and I wonder, when she said diminishing role, is that all she meant or did she mean the diminishing influence, the diminishing? Power that genuine faith has to keep the population such that they fear God more than they fear man, and so they don’t need external forces to kind of rein them in. They’re accountable before God, and so they act accordingly, individually, without external pressure. I wonder what she meant by that.

[MCG]

I believe she meant the first thing you said in terms. Of the culture of Britain or the UK is not what it was when Dawkins was growing up. And when I know how old old lady she is. But I will peg her to be probably in her 60s. When she was growing up, I think that is the diminishing role she’s talking about. She definitely is not talking about genuine faith because that would be evident by the rest of the.

[Jay]

Fashion and her question already presupposes the answer she asked. Does it matter that Christianity’s influence is diminishing? Well, if it didn’t matter, you wouldn’t even mention it. You wouldn’t even talk about it.

[MCG]

Well, I think it matters because of who she’s acting.

[Jay]

Ohh. As a prominent atheist that he is, I see.

[MCG]

Right. All right, let’s go to clip 2.

[Rachel Johnson]

And what would be your Easter message? I’m, I mean, I’ve I’ve said a few things. What would be? What would you tell the nation?

[Richard Dawkins]

Well, I must say I was slightly horrified to hear that Ramadan is being promoted. Instead, I do think that we, we are culturally a Christian country. I’m I call myself a cultural Christian. I’m I’m not a believer, but there’s a distinction between being a believing Christian and being a cultural Christian. And so, you know, I I love hymns and Christmas Carol. And I I sort of feel at home in the Christian ethos, I feel that we are a Christian country in that sense.

[Jay]

So I have to confess I don’t understand what he’s trying to say here because he is well known for being an atheist and for describing all religion as evil, unnecessary unsigned. Effect. And whatever other derogative adjective you want to throw in there. But my question would be if all religion is pernicious nonsense, as he believes, why would it be so appalling that Ramadan has replaced Easter in some instances in his country? It seems that you know, if it were all rubbish. Like he believes it to be, his answer would be something along the lines of well, you know, it’s all nonsense. So we shouldn’t really care about it or think anything of it. But I think it’s simply because he knows that there’s a difference between the two, that he responds as he did and. He defeats his own argument in that particular sense, particularly his atheist argument or the fact that he’s an atheist. There is a distinction, he says, between being a cultural Christian and being a believing Christian. I’d like to know what is a cultural Christian According to him. It sounds like he’s saying that a cultural Christian is someone who, like he says, loves the hymns, loves the Christmas carols, and he loves the Christian ethos. He loves the Christian culture, and it’s something that he grew up in. Then, and that’s a very odd thing to say when all of that springs from the theological underpinning that people believe that it’s, it’s OK, let’s go back. He says he loves the Christian ethos. Ethos is defined as the disposition. Or the character. You know the fundamental values that are peculiar to a person, or a people, or a culture of movement that’s straight from the Internet. I just copy pasted from dictionary.com. I think it was. And so if your ethos stems from your values, that means it stems from what you believe. What you hold to be. True Christian ethos. They stem from the prophets, who aforetime that spoke the word of God as God gave it to them in their time, whether they were prophesying something in the future or something that was happening in the present. When the word of God came to them, the thing that we’re believing is that these prophets. Were pointing to the coming Messiah or they were showing some aspect of God’s character that God chose at that moment to reveal to his people and subsequently to the world through Israel. So these Christian ethos, they come from the risen savior, Christian values stem from the words that Jesus taught during the three years he condescended and lived among sinful men. It stems from hundreds of eyewitnesses at the time, thousands, even a handful of the whom faithfully wrote what they saw. And her. The Christian ethos is rooted in the fact that Jesus didn’t stay dead, but God raised him from the dead, and that’s particular to point out because the context of this conversation that he’s having with Rachel is Ramadan replacing Easter. The Christian ethos comes from or stems from the fact that God raised him from the dead. As as it says, in Acts 2 verse 24, I believe it is. Actually I have it here. It says Acts 224 whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death because it was not possible that he should beholden of it. In other words, death couldn’t hold him if there were any sin in him, imputed or otherwise, God would not have accepted him. He would have stayed dead.

[MCG]

MHM.

[Jay]

But God raised him from the dead, which means God accepted him. That means everything he said about himself is true. And it wasn’t just a figment of everyone’s imagination. He was seen by thousands before he ascended. Well, he was seen by thousands during his time and I believe 500 saw him out one time after he resurrected. If I’m right about that. Yeah. And so if there are any sin in him or if there’s anything in him that was not true or if there was anything in him that wasn’t right, if there was any thought that was impure, God would not have received him. God, the Bible says can see the innermost part of man. He knows their inner thoughts, and so even if he had an impure thought, he would not have been suitable that perfect. Sacrificed the lamb without blemish. God would not have raised him up. The fact that he was raised the fact that he raised himself, God raised him from the dead. He was resurrected. Proves that he was who he said he was and everything he said is yes and Amen. Yeah, and Amen. And so he did raise from the death. Death couldn’t hold him because. The wages of sin is death. As I’ve been belaboring this point for the last few seconds here. If there were sin in him, he would have stayed dead, just like the Muhammad of Ramadan and the Allah that he served. Muhammad is dead and Allah is not the true God and so. Ohh, their faith is empty. It’s vain and so that’s not true of Christ. Jesus is indeed risen. So Romans 623 says that the wages of sin is death. If there’s no sin, there’s no death. So I think another thing that we should ask ourselves is how or why did he die? Why did he have to die? If he had no sin, and if God accepted him and raised him up from the dead, why did he have to die? Well, it’s because of our sin. That’s the whole point. That’s the whole reason he came was to bear our sins on the cross. His. And so he had no sin. And because of the resurrection we can bank on and build on his word on what Christ has done and what he said, who he is. He is Christ, the solid rock. So we build everything on him. We build our values, we build our ethos, we build our traditions, we build our families, we build our communities, we build our societies. Build our governments. All of it is built on him and so. The Hebrews, when once said God who at sundry times and in diverse manners, spake and time passed unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds, who, being the brightness of his glory. And the express image of his person and upholding all things by the word of his power. Or when he had by himself, purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of The Majesty on high, being made so much better than the angels as he hath by inheritance, obtained a more excellent name than they. So it sounds like when Mr. Dawkins is saying I’m a cultural Christian. I love the hymns. I love the carols. It sounds like he’s saying he likes all of the fruit of Christianity, but he doesn’t want Christianity. He doesn’t like or believe in Christianity. He wants the tree without the roots, the blessings. Without the obedience, the rest without the work, the Christendom without Christ. But that’s not possible. It’s not a perfect analogy, but what he’s advocating for and what he says he likes. It’s like, you know, when an insect sheds its skin, it’s molting or it’s shedding its exoskeleton. Once it finishes doing that, that shell that’s left looks exactly like the animal, like the insect. Even down to the hairs looks just like that insect, but it’s empty. It’s hollow. It’s a form of what was actually there, the real thing. And that’s what he’s actually advocating for. It’s hollow, it’s meaningless Christianity. It’s an empty shell. It’s a form of godliness, denying the power thereof, and it baffles me that someone so intelligent as he obviously is can be so wrong about this. I was going to say dumb and I want to be mean because he is a lost man and I pray that the Lord would save him and that he would turn from his sin and repent because it’s not like there’s a lack of opportunity for him.

[Jay]

To do that. But I think when we listen to that clip, here’s the word of God being proven true right before our very eyes. The fact that it doesn’t matter how many degrees you have behind your name, you could have more degrees behind your name than the smartest guy than a thermometer than whatever. But all of that is nothing before. God, God has chosen the foolish things of this world. And not people who are as intelligent and well read and well respected by the world as Richard Dawkins is. In fact he, in many instances has been the leader of the new atheist movement. Him, along with Stephen Hawking and and several others, I’m flabbergasted to see him make this argument. And it’s. So empty and he doesn’t realize the foolishness of what he’s saying. And if I might add, this isn’t the first time he’s said this. He’s held this position for quite some time. You could go online and find videos from 5-10 years ago where he said the exact same thing. So I know that Christians are jumping on it now. Social media is at a point where it could spread like wildfire. And he’s had this position for quite some time, and he doesn’t see how incongruous the thought is.

[MCG]

Yeah. Do me a favor, could you? To see if his parents had any religious belief. I’m just curious about that. I should have looked that up.

[Jay]

OK. I’ll pull that up. You go ahead and I’ll pull that up.

[MCG]

So yeah, just to respond to what you said, Richard Dawkins to me is like, you know, that famous or overused Christmas plot where it is this mean person don’t want to have anything to do with Christmas. And what the case may be. And then you might hear a curl or something and he flashed back to his youth. When his mom used to sing a Carol to him or something and they were in this poor house.

[Jay]

Oh.

[MCG]

Barely have any toys for Christmas and all of a sudden the character turn around and love Christmas or whatever case.

[Jay]

May be Scrooge? Yeah.

[MCG]

Right. I think I could be wrong, but I believe maybe his parents were at least somewhat religious and he grew up and kind of dismissed that because I fully agree with you that he wants all these things that cause. What Christianity might give? But he doesn’t work Christianity. And he said that much.

[Jay]

Not to interrupt, but it says Dawkins describes. This is according to Wikipedia, Dawkins describes his childhood as a normal Anglican upbringing. He embraced Christianity until halfway through his teenage years, at which point he concluded that evolution was true and he became.

[MCG]

OK. An atheist. Alright, that concludes my thought. I didn’t look that up, but I kind of believed that he had. At least somewhat of a foundation. But anyway, firstly to respond to the actual clip. The first question I had in my mind is why would you ask the 80s or at best agnostic about the Easter message? Why? Why would I go and say hey 80s, what’s your Easter message? To me, that’s just outside of left field, but I’ll leave that alone. Secondly, Ramadan is being promoted instead because in the West, especially in the US too is anything but Christ. Yeah, anything about Christ Jesus is the issue. We tend to believe that religion is the issue. We tend to believe that the secular world don’t want religion. No, they want religion, they want spirituality. They’re not rejecting religion and spirituality. Jesus is the issue. That’s why Ramadan can be promoted and Easter. Not because the issue is Jesus voted back and said something very interesting in the message. I want to play here.

[Voddie Baucham]

verse 17, here’s the crux of the matter. But in order that it may spread no further among the people. Let us warn them to speak no more to anyone in this name, so they called them and charged them not to speak or teach at all, in the name of Jesus. I want you to. Note. What they didn’t say? They didn’t say stop healing people. Did you catch that? Go heal all the people you want. Just don’t use that name. That name is the problem. Valedictorian. Because you had the highest GPA in your class, you get to make a speech. Wow, that’s awesome. Can I quote Buddha? You most assuredly can. People will think you’re spiritual. Can I quote Confucius? Please do. They’ll think you’re super intelligent. Can I quote Jesus? Oh, separation of church and state. Anybody, anything you can absolutely. You can quote anybody. Just don’t use that name. That’s what they have a problem with.

[MCG]

So thirdly. I said secondly. The name. Ramadan be promoted over Easter. Is because of Jesus.

[Jay]

MHM.

[MCG]

But thirdly, and this to me sound a bit oxymoron. Considering whose mouth is coming from. MHM. But it’s actually not so. He loved hymns and the Christmas season, like you said. And of course, we conclude that he had a religious childhood. Not surprising. He loved the Peace of Mind that culture Christianity creates or the culture that culture Christianity create. If you want to put it that way. So he wants the principles of Christianity, as he said, he wants the. Peace of Mind, Christian. But he doesn’t want the Christians or the Christ that allow that to flourish. Of course, we know the UK back couple years as a couple of years, but it probably 100 years or so now, maybe less missionaries after missionaries after missionaries came out of UK and now. We are sending American missionaries are going back to the UK to try to win them, but that can’t want the fruit as you said. But he doesn’t want the principles. He doesn’t want the Christian. He doesn’t want the Christ who allow these things to. So basically Dawkins want to take a swim without getting wet. He wants to drink his porridge without getting his moustache dirty. He wants to reconcile his goal to this cabbage. He wants to have his cake and eat it. That’s what he wants. You know, they say that Christians are the best neighbors to have. Mm-hmm. He wants us to live beside somebody who’s not going to. Interfere with him. Who’s not going to harm him? Who’s not going to steal his stuff? Who? He can say hi in the morning too, and hello. And have a good relationship with basically the things that the cultural Christian or foundational Christian society gives. But then he doesn’t want the Christ and the Christian that help make that flourish, but to some extent he’s that wrong. He’s not wrong at all. There’s a big difference between culture, Christianity and Bible. Believing Christianity and the major difference is the cultural Christians have never experienced a saving grace of Jesus.

[Jay]

What do you mean?

[MCG]

Is Christ but the Bible believing Christian has? That is the biggest difference. Docking is not rejecting what he grew up in. He wants that he wants those values. He just don’t want Christ. And the problem with that and is that is that name as vogue vacuum said, is that name. If you can get rid of that name Dawkins. Will embrace Christianity and we know that’s true because he just said it, he said. He’s a culture Christian, he just wants Christianity without Christ, but at the same time, I don’t even think this interview is safe. But anyways, here is the next.

[Richard Dawkins]

Clip is Cruise that statistically the number of people who actually believe in Christianity is going down. And I I’m happy with that, but I would not be happy if, for example, we lost all our cathedrals and our beautiful parish churches. So I I count myself a cultural Christian, I think it would matter if we certainly, if we substituted any alternative religion, that would be. True, truly dreadful.

[MCG]

Yeah, but basically the same thing. He wants the UK the of all, but not the Chrysler lay the foundation. It’s the same thing and he’s not alone. Look at our politics. In the US especially, I’m sure it’s the same in Europe too, but look at our politics. They can claim all they want. They don’t want capitalism. But as soon as they get some money, what they do.

[Jay]

Mm-hmm.

[MCG]

They move out of their middle class or whatever community they live in to a gated community or community where no one can get to because what they don’t want, the violence that they promote, they want to defund the police, but when? Things happen. Who do they call? Certainly not Ghostbusters. They’re calling the police. There was this. I don’t remember if she is a council woman or something in Massachusetts, the same area where George Floyd was killed. And well, that’s not Massachusetts. That’s Minnesota. And I think she got assaulted in her driveway.

[Jay]

Mm-hmm.

[MCG]

Attempt robbery or something and the teenage. Boys bash your face in and whatever runoff and all of a sudden, she wants the police. Where’s the police? They want all that they want to get rid of the police or whatever case for me. But they don’t want the fruit of it. Or let me rephrase that. They actually want the fruit of what the police gave. But they don’t want the police. So when something happened, who did they call? Police. I guess my point is this is the same oxymoronic reasoning. We see not just in our cultural religions, it triggered out to our politics as well, where we want the blessings of capitalism. But we don’t want capitalism. We want the blessing of Christ, but we don’t want Christ. We want to live in peaceful communities, but we don’t want the people that help us afford that peaceful community. AKA the police that I mentioned earlier. So.

[Jay]

It’s also such that we said the people that afford us to live in those peaceful communities, you notice that communities. That have a shared belief, a shared truth, particularly Christian communities, that, as I mentioned earlier in the podcast, where each individual person fears God first and foremost, and that is what they’re conforming their lives, their attitudes, their actions, those are a peaceable. People, they’re the ones. Like you said, they’re not going to rob or steal or shoot or anything like that. And that’s what makes these societies, these communities, these states, the country. 3 pleasant to live in, but if everyone is their own God and they don’t fear the one true God, and they answer only to themselves, and they’re only out for number one, well, that is a hellish place to live in, because you might be the very next one on their list of prey to devour, and the Bible describes the enemy as a lion. As a roaring lion seeking prowling about and seeking whom he may destroy, doesn’t that sound like the people with malicious intent in our neighborhoods and in our city? These that are just looking for reasons to attack and assault and affront others and complete lawlessness. What is it called? The smash and grabs and the rioting and the looting and the chasm and. All of these ridiculous things that everyone thinks won’t happen because people are basically good and humanism this and secular humanism that don’t worry if we let go of Christianity, the population or the people or our culture, will not devolve. Well. We’ve seen this in real time in the last five years or so. Just how much? A people can devolve into chaos. When the fear of the Lord is thrown out of the window, and admittedly the United States has been on this track for decades, it’s just now the chickens are coming home to roost.

[MCG]

Well, I think the US is already not a cultural Christian nation. If you want to put away, I think there might be pockets of it still, but. Right. It’s definitely not in our cities or major cities are where most of the people live. The West and East Coast, maybe in the middle of America, you still have some cultural.

[Jay]

It’s not. Right. Right.

[MCG]

Question atmosphere there and I would agree with that to some level. But majority of the US leader under East or.

[Jay]

West Coast. Yeah. But by and large, OK, so he lives in the UK, if I’m not mistaken. And so he is either is currently or he recently retired from teaching at Oxford. I can’t remember which one it is. And Oxford. University. That’s a very prestigious university. It’s world renowned for its prowess and academic ability. And so that was established as a Christian university, Harvard. GAIL Stanford, all these colleges that have such pedigree and such renowned behind their names, all of them were established as many of them as seminaries initially, and then they became the full-fledged liberal arts type universities that they are. And so even back in those times the culture was Christian. And it produced so many good things, and such beauty. He talks about the carols and the hymns, the beautiful music that was created, the architect that build these lovely churches that he’s talking about. All of those came from the heart of redeemed men. Men that well, not men in general. You know what I mean? Like mankind that God had redeemed that created those things for the glory of God. Now I haven’t been to. I would love to at some point. But when you go to these cathedrals, they’re all very, very tall and big buildings that all come to a point. Up at the top and from what I understand they made them large and imposing for a reason, so that when you walk in you can feel very, very, very small and real. Realize, wow, there’s something greater than I in the world right now in this cathedral is just a physical representation of that. All of the steeples that point up to the sky are meant to draw your eye upward, symbolically, to remind you that God is greater than you and worthy of praise and humble yourself and make yourself small, all those things. Come from a fear and a reverence of the Lord. As I said, the beautiful art and music and literature and architecture and culture that he’s saying that he loves and that he feels at home and you know it aims at. It comes out of a tree that has been deeply planted, deeply rooted, and this tree has branches that fan out far and wide that provides shade and fruit and blessing and reprieve for everyone saved and unsaved. Now, those who. Can fully appreciated are the ones who are genuinely saved, of course, but God is merciful both to the saved and unsaved. He sends rein on the unsaved man’s crop as well as the saved man’s crop. And so the outworking of. Blessing that takes root in a culture as a result of Christians seeking to live and obey and glorify God benefits the entire culture. And as we said before, without trying to be the dead horse, he wants all of those blessings and all of that benefit without the God and the Jesus Christ, that makes it possible. And so. We’re thinking about George. Handle handles Messiah every Christmas. It’s just this classical piece of it just blows your mind. How absolutely beautiful it is. Or think of John Newton and his him. These hymns that he says he loves so much were amazing. Grace, how sweet. The sun, even unsaved people know that him and and see it for the beauty that is inherently. Present in it and so you can’t have all of these things without the redeemed men. And you can’t have the redeem. Men without the Christ that actually redeemed them, right. And so, you know, again, he says, it would be dreadful if the culture were supplanted by something else. And I agree with him. But my question to him would be why? Why does it matter? Well, like in his case it would be. Ohh, we leave the pot and we go into the pan. It it would be all of the same thing. Why wouldn’t the culture committed to the five pillars of Islam? To be just as beautiful as Christianity, it’s all useless religion, right, Mr.

[MCG]

Dawkins, well to him, is nostalgia.

[Jay]

And that’s all. He’s boiled it down to.

[MCG]

For him because. Growing up, I assumed that he celebrated Christmas in his home and he played the hymns in his home and all that stuff. And he wants that he wants to walk down the streets of London and see Christmas trees on lights during Christmas time because that’s what he’s accustomed to. He feels at home with it.

[Jay]

Sure.

[MCG]

Yeah. And he feels that that’s best. But The funny thing about it, if you look over and all that. Whether that’s better or not, even if we look over. All that The funny thing is that can spend his entire career breaking up and tearing down that foundation that he’s lamenting that we’re losing, right?

[Jay]

Now he’s sitting on a branch while selling the branch off, exactly cutting the selling the.

[MCG]

Tree down. So you and your entire life and create multiple disciples. They have multiple people. Out there, that love of Richard Dawkins, Shirley read his books, the God Delusion and all these other things. That if you mention anything negative about Richard Dawkins, they will happen you online and stuff like. That.

[Jay]

Mm-hmm.

[MCG]

But Darkins created those disciples to help him tear down the foundation, or the Christian Cultural Foundation. Or we probably, in the US judeo-christian Foundation that the West has. He uses pulpit. You. Loses influence to tear that down. I know he’s lamenting, I say. Ohh, we’re losing it and I’m sad. I don’t want to lose it because.

[Jay]

Dreadful, he said. It would be dreadful.

[MCG]

So which one do you want? Again? Darkens because if you have a mustache, it doesn’t make sense. You drink power, expect you’re gonna get dirty. Yeah, you know. Anyways, here’s the next clip.

[Rachel Johnson]

Well, which brings me. To to my supplementary point, which is that as we know, church attendance is plummeting but the building, the erection of mosques across Europe. I think 6000 are under construction and there are many more. I mean are being planned. So do you think do you regard that as a problem, do you think that matters?

[Richard Dawkins]

Yes, I do. Really. I mean I I I I I don’t I. My choose my words carefully. I mean I if I had to choose between Christianity and Islam, my choose Christianity every single time. I mean, it seems to me to be. A. Fundamentally, decent religion in a way that I think Islam is not.

[Jay]

Yay and Amen. I agree with what he said 100%. If you presented me with a choice between Islam and Christianity, between the law of God and Sharia law, I’m gonna choose Christianity 110% of the time. I don’t think I would look good.

[MCG]

The hijab, you know, while I wouldn’t word it that way, the fundamental difference in cultural Christianity and cultural Islam, because there’s such thing as cultural Islam as well, is basically one word. 4th and that is what dark into want to give up. He likes his freedom.

[Jay]

Wait, you said the difference between cultural Christianity and cultural Islam is force? What do? You mean by that?

[MCG]

4th because ultimately, if you live in a cultural Christian nation and you don’t want to adhere to the principles of Christianity, no one is going to disown you. No one is going to grab you and force you to adhere or do all those things, but in Islam. In Islamic nations, you will be forced to adhere in most well, if not all Christian nations. I can’t think of any Christian nation. That will form. To you to be a cultural Christian or even a biblical Christian, as a matter of fact, actually you can’t force someone to be a biblical Christian. He has to be a submission from the heart. So I think the overarching issue here is force is acting like his freedom, but God is the ultimate judge here, you know, at least in Christians, we build our God, we execute judgment.

[Jay]

Yeah.

[MCG]

His own will, and I’m not gonna go there and say, OK, you well, you don’t believe what I believe? Well, then you have to die, or then I’m going to hurt you or whatever the case may be. You know, they’re not gonna be any what they call it jihad in Christianity. I’m not gonna go and blow up myself along with people or kill the infidel or whatever the terminology you want. Use. I’m not saying all Muslims do that as a matter of fact, most of them don’t. But that’s the picture of Islam that the world has given us that they will blow up themselves for Allah, stuff like that or whatever case may be.

[Jay]

Or that they will propagate their faith by force. Look what happened when their United States ceded Afghanistan in the way that it did think. Last year, almost immediately, almost immediately, it was almost as if a black cloud or a black velvet curtain just fell on everyone. The difference when ISIS took over, or ISIL or whatever they were calling themselves at the time, took over and immediately all the women had to return to their homes and couldn’t leave without chaperones. Immediately, the hijabs and the niqabs and all of the. Of the things that a Sharia law was enforced. It wasn’t a, you know, this is a personal decision. You have to obey your conscience. You have to do this. And no, no, it was forced. So I. What you’re saying the difference is night and.

[MCG]

Day. Yeah. And I think that’s what Dawkins like. Again. You just want the fruits without the tree or without the root. And it’s interesting here because, you know, I think he mentioned something about woman in Scripture, but I can’t think of another Cortana quote. I don’t believe biblical Christianity is a religion or quote UN quote. I can think of another.

[Jay]

Mm-hmm.

[MCG]

Of religion that exhort women more than biblical Christianity. Just some examples may be being chosen to bring Christ into the world. Mm-hmm. For as I know, Mary was a woman. The first witnesses to witness the resurrected Christ were two women. Again, go back to Jewish custom and Jewish laws back. Then a woman could not be a witness, but the Lord chose these two women to be first witness of the resurrected Christ. Woman has been highly exalted in scripture. Again, you can argue you know, you talk about the constraint that a cultural Islam has on women. Again, I’m not saying that fundamental Islam is this way, but if you just compare the cultural Islam and what we see in cultural Islam and cultural Christianity. Definitely, women seem to have a lot more freedom in Christianity and we can see why. Through Scripture, who had to go then to preach a gospel, and she a Christ with others and rely on the Holy Spirit to convict and draw. And if they get saved, relying on the Holy Spirit to use the word of God to make them more like the son of God, Christianity is. All about our submission to Christ and obedience to his word, no one is going to force you except God himself. If you want to put it that way. But I’m not charged to go there. Force anybody, not even my. His. To do anything in terms of Christianity, they have to make their decision on their own. As one guy said, Christianity is the only mother that don’t have grandkids. My kids are not Christians just because I am a Christian or biblical Christian doesn’t make them a biblical Christian. They have to come to a point in time where they recognize this and and trust Christ of their savior and submit to the Lord. On their own now I’m here to guide them and be a guide and be a parent to them and. Point them in that direction, but I can’t make the decision for them. That’s unlike Islam or cultural Islam, where they’re forced. But yeah, I think that cans may have somewhat put his foot in his mouth here, but especially saying that publicly on the radio. But at the end of the day, the big difference is that Christianity. Does not promote conversion by. Force my impression of Islam is that it is OK to promote conversion by force. You listen to the removing various podcasts. We are responding to a recent Easter interview of Richard Dawkins by LBC Radio. We’ll be right. Back.

[Jay]

Hi, this is Jay. MCG and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to: removingbarriers.net and subscribing to receive all things removing Barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at removing barriers.net/donate, removing barriers, a clear view of the cross.

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[MCG]

Alright so. So we have a number of clips left, just counting the conversation between Rachel Johnson and Richard Dawkins. Here is the next clip.

[Rachel Johnson]

Just for balance, should we, should we say something about fundamental fundamentalist Christians who, you know, we can see abortion rights, reproductive rights, being rolled back in in, you know, Republican states in America, so Christianity is still not without its problems when it comes to women and their rights.

[Richard Dawkins]

Well, you didn’t ask me about about Christianity in in America, that’s a different matter entirely.

[Rachel Johnson]

OK. All right. Well, I’m sure we got some fundamentalist Christians here too, but not not as public.

[Richard Dawkins]

Well, insofar as fundamentalist Christians oppose evolution and think that the world is is created 6000 years ago, I mean that that is pernicious. Nonsense, of course.

[MCG]

So.

[Jay]

Now I know what he thinks about me because I am one of those fundamentalists that she’s describing.

[MCG]

Well, that’s not even the point, though. I think the point is that you know well, Doc and you, that’s bash Islam. Let’s not get in trouble. Let’s batch Christianity too. That’s what it is because we know Dakin doesn’t care, right? Because he has said controversial stuff you can see he’s a controversial guy. He’s going to speak his mind and say his opinion, so if he doesn’t like, he’s not going to say that. But you know, who cares? NBC Radio. Because you’re saying this on here? I’ll be gonna get back over it and all of a sudden we’re promoting Christianity over Islam. That’s the problem here. So they can say all the world, well, fundamental Christian and abortion, that’s not even their point of the discussion.

[Jay]

Hmm.

[MCG]

But she wants to cover her head. So let’s buy something else. So let’s call ourselves Christian. But let’s not follow the book. Basically, so fundamental Christians apparently follow the book the Bible. So let’s embrace Christianity. But let’s forget about the book. Let’s embrace Christianity. But let’s forget about the Christ of Christianity basically.

[Jay]

I find it odd that fundamentalists would be characterized as the problem or the enemy here as well. Because they’re the ones that are more likely to open up the word of God and rightly divide the word of God to discern what does it actually say. She’s looking at fundamentalism. I’m using air quotes here through the lens of her liberal worldview. So it’s already automatically backward, so anyone who reads the Bible and believes it believes what it says and takes it at face value is a fundamentalist in her book and dockins of course saying that if you believe that the world was created in a literal 6000 years, it’s a pernicious. Believe I. Why pernicious means that it’s malevolent. It’s evil, it does great damage. I’m not sure I understand why that would be the case.

[MCG]

Because a woman, right? If you can’t kill your baby.

[Jay]

Yeah. Yeah. And so as an evolutionist, of course, you do not believe that people have are made in the image of God. You do not believe that each person has inherent worth. And so, like Ken Hamm says, hey, what’s the problem? Get rid of your babies. We’re all animals. It’s like spare cats. Get rid of your spare kids, the same thing. And so. These so-called air quote fundamentalist Christians stand. The way of that, and that’s a problem, but it’s the Christians who take God at his word and are unwilling to compromise. They’re the ones that are actually trying to hold the line and fight back against the insanity that is American culture today. The transitioning of children to become girls when they are. Boys are boys when they are girls. The insanity of killing a child in the womb for any reason at all, at any time, the insanity.

[MCG]

Hmm.

[Jay]

Of promoting the LGBTQIA lifestyle that has spread like a venomous web of poison into all aspects of our lives as Americans, so much so that other aberrant positions and ideologies and lifestyles feel emboldened to fight for their so-called. Rights. It’s Christianity and these air quote fundamentalist Christians that are trying to stem the tsunami that is debauchery and sin and the putrification. Of a culture. It’s the so-called fundamentalist Christians that are the salt that are trying to hold back the rot that are trying to cause people to see that you can’t just give yourself with abandon to your own ideologies, your own ideas, your own beliefs, the figment of your own imagination. It will enslave you. And it will lead you to hell wide and wide. Is the gate wide is the way that leads to hell.

[MCG]

MHM.

[Jay]

But the way to heaven, the way to be right with God, is very narrow. Very few find it. And so I would encourage them to stop and not just them. They are just expressing something that the majority of people in both of our respective countries feel and believe. If you’re a fundamentalist, if you believe what the Bible says. And if you believe the Earth is 6000 years old and that God created it, and that Jesus was an actual human being, God in the flesh who came down to die on the cross, and that he rose again from the dead. And if you put your faith and trust in him, if you turn from your sin and receive him as. Lord and Savior that he will save you. See these people? They’re the ones that are the issue. And yet and yet we’re the ones trying to hold back the tsunami that threatens to crush us all. They’re just expressing what everyone thinks about fundamentalists. They look down their noses and think ohh these people these prudes, these backwards people and the Matt Walsh. Documentary what is AW. And apparently they’re dinosaurs because they don’t believe in the whole transitioning the trans agenda. They’re old and irrelevant and backward. People that need saving from the new liberal agenda when it’s actually the opposite, they’re the ones in need of salvation. They’re the ones that are in need of redeemed faculties that will allow them to. Properly assess and engage the culture that they’re living in the culture by the way that they’re actively working to destroy. Joy with their ideologies and their permissiveness and their celebration of sin.

[MCG]

Well, you get even more juicier.

[Rachel Johnson]

Right. Well, so I think I see where you come from. I like the phrase you’re a cultural Christian. I think I’m a bit more than a cultural Christian, although you know, it does my, my, my belief waxes and. Uhm. Would it be a good thing or a bad thing if we became a less Christian country and? Just on the. You know the the foundation of this nation, with the king being the head of church and state. Do you think it provides a solid foundation that we and we would lose something? If let’s say there was a Muslim majority.

[Richard Dawkins]

Well, yes, I think the king, when he was Prince of Wales, was actually rather sympathetic towards Islam and 1:00. Of. The problems I felt. No, I think it would be a a terrible thing. And insofar as Christianity can be seen as a Bullock against Islam, I think it’s it’s a very good thing in. Africa, for example. And where you have missionaries of both faith. Operating I’m. I’m I’m I’m on team Christians. As far as that’s concerned.

[Jay]

I saw you shaking your head over there. I’m see. And you’re smiling and laugh. What are you thinking?

[MCG]

Docking is with team Christian. Just staying on the phone nation, but give them Christianity. Yeah, but anyways, Rachel said she’s a bit more than a cultural Christian, but you certainly as a Bible believing one right. Rachel’s not a Bible believing Christian, you know better off than talking to. You’re both in the same boat.

[Jay]

Absolutely.

[MCG]

You know the same person who just condemned Bible believing, Christian or fundamental Christian, as she called. It’s the same person say ohh well, I’m more than a cultural Christian wow. Anyways, secondly, I think the question she asked a very deep question, but I don’t think she really wants to know the answer. What it should be. What would happen if the West on the whole, you know, she talking about the UK, but what would happen the West on the whole lose this cultural Christian majority. You know, but here’s the problem. I don’t think the West will lose this cultural Christian majority. The devil doesn’t care about the culture Christian majority because the culture Christian majority produces people like Rachel and Dawkins. Yeah, so why would he want to lose it? Why would he cause the West to lose it? Plus, where would the devil win if he give the West and the east, so to speak, the same?

[Jay]

That’s right.

[MCG]

Foundation and someone said something to me once. You know, in Russia they clamped down on homosexuality, right? I don’t think it’s legal to be openly gay or LGBTQIA plus, plus. Plus, in Russia in the US, that’s perfectly legal. And someone said some to me that I never really thought about back then, he said. But the devil is cunning. All the devil is wise. He give the nation that should be Christian the LGBTQIA plus, and they embrace it. The nation does not Christian condemns it. I don’t think Russia will consider himself a a Christian nation, even though there’s some Orthodox Christianity stuff in quote UN quote. In Russia, the West is not going to lose the culture. Instant majority because the devil doesn’t care about it. But I think the bigger aspect of that question can be a just an episode all by itself. Thirdly, he said, I’m on team Christian. As I said, he doesn’t mind the religion comparing the religions. And to be honest, what the West is evolving today is more you can say to some extent the actually more decency in Islam at least when it comes to certain morals that Christianity and Islam would hold up like modesty like. Homosexuality. LGBTQI stuff is a sin. Stuff like that. The Christianity that he’s putting in there and the Islam would agree more in the deviancy that it’s happening in the West because Christians are going to be against at least Bible believing Christians gonna be against LGBTQ. Just same Muslim will too. They’re going to be again. To corruption in politics and all these things, and bring in all these laws that will prevent you from freely worshipping and all this stuff. For most part, most of want to be able to go to the malls and do their thing and stuff like that without harassment, just like Christians want to do the same thing for most part, they want to raise their families according to their belief. But quite honestly, is the far left have their way Christians? And Muslims are not going to be able to say homeschool their kids or raise their kids in the way they want to go because after all, the nation kids are our kids, right, Biden. So yeah.

[Jay]

Here’s the thing though, right? Muslims may say that all they want to do, Ben Affleck said this as well, and when he was on the Bill Maher show several years ago, you know you can’t look at Islam as though they were part of the few that carry out terrorist attacks in order to. You know, to promote or to fight for their faith because there’s over a billion of them that just want to go to mosque and want to live their lives and don’t want to bother anyone. Well, that may be true to some degree. We can’t ignore the fact that they may not be out there hijacking planes and blowing themselves up, but. Very few of them are against that very few of. Them think that there’s something wrong with terrorism in the sense that, you know, there would be a justification of it or an explanation of it, or they’re fighting to, you know, for the honor of Allah or whatever they’re saying and or actually Sam Harris on Bill Maher show pointed out a statistic that 80 percent, 80% and that’s a very. Conservative estimate that 80% of Muslims believe that the cartoonists do you remember the Danish cartoonists that made fun of Mohammed several years ago? They believed that he should have been prosecuted or otherwise. Yeah, yes, should have been prosecuted or otherwise.

[MCG]

Just with Charlie.

[Jay]

Is he should have paid for that portrayal of Mohammed or whatever it was that he did. 80% of them believe that, and that’s a conservative measurement. And Dawkins is right about this. None of us would like to live under. Under that kind of culture, in that kind of culture, where one misstep and you’re being hauled before the authority. And grave punishments can be. To to your hand, cut off or whatever they do, the honor killings and all these different things. And I understand that people will say, oh, you know, you’re just picking out the worst parts of that, the most patriarchal or the most draconian things. But it’s at the heart of that particular religion, anything that comes from the pit of hell will have a sort of oppressive, a hateful. It wasn’t destroy the image of God. In men in Islam does that very well. And it’s not just Islam. Of course, I hope this doesn’t sound like just an Islam bashing. I’m bashing everybody that’s not Bible believing that is not the true Christianity because there’s only one way to God. There’s only one way to be genuinely saved, and that’s through Jesus Christ. And so you said it before him, CG that she’s no different than Richard Dawkins. And I would agree with you. And there are a lot of Americans that are no different from her that would claim the name of Christ or Christian, but only on a very superficial or cult. Through branding of Christianity to where again you have the form of godliness, but you’re denying the power thereof, there are many Christians. I fear that believe that somehow their Bible believing, but they live as though they were merely cultural Christians, Christians who hold the truth but are unwilling to share it with others, or they’re unwilling to offend the people around them, or unwilling to actually engage the. Culture for. Christ, you shouldn’t be asking yourself, are you just a cultural Christian? Have you deceived yourself into thinking that you’re a genuine Christian because the last I checked, Jesus came here to seek and save that which was lost. Those people that are lost, he’s also called us to do the same, because without the true Christ, what you have is that.

[MCG]

MHM.

[Jay]

Empty shell. We’re now calling cultural Christian. And that doesn’t benefit anyone. It’s a dog with no teeth, as it were. It is powerless to confront sin. It has no moral authority to hold people and governments and movements and cultures to account, because the God of the Bible will call everyone and everything to account. But those that are merely cultural Christians. For those that are Christian esque or christianese or like the ease of Christianity without the obedience, there’s absolutely no difference between them and Dawkins and Rachel and any of the others that would emasculate Christianity for lack of a better word, take away the teeth and the power and the moral authority that it has. Because Jesus rose from the dead because God placed his stamp of approval. On him and he’s definitively the one that God has presented to the world. There’s no other name under heaven by which men can be saved.

[MCG]

Yeah, yeah. But I’ll just say this, man, the devil is conning, as we know, and that’s why it is even more important that we be a witness to this lost and dying world because we have people like.

[Jay]

Oh, sure.

[MCG]

Joe Johnson said Ohh well, I’m a bit more than cultural Christian, but as we’ll see in the next clip, you know her clips to follow. She basically dismissed biblical Christianity, but here we move on.

[Jay]

Hmm.

[Rachel Johnson]

It’s interesting because I sort of thought that you would be more of a hitch. Unite God is not great. Advocate, but it’s interesting to me that you see the value and the force for good of, well, the United Kingdom having a Christian founded.

[Richard Dawkins]

I mean. Yes, but I I I must emphasise that that I think that that the, the things that Christians believe are actually nonsense. I mean I I think that when you when you say you you you you you waver I I wanted to ask you when do you actually believe that Jesus had a a virgin for a mother do you actually believe he rose from the dead.

[Rachel Johnson

Yes, yes, I.

[Richard Dawkins]

Suspect you probably don’t.

[Rachel Johnson]

Well, weirdly, but since you asked since you asked Richard if I may cause I was at new college when you were you were at are you? I think. Are you still a Don at new College? Yes.

[Richard Dawkins]

Of course. Yeah. Well, I’m retired, but yes.

[Rachel Johnson]

You’re a turd, but you don’t look anyway. Weirdly, I was. Just three weeks ago, at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem, where the the Christian, the Christians believe that Christ was crucified or there was the tomb or the Geths, and many was just there, and Golgotha was there. And I have to admit that there is a real force. I mean, it feels like the fulcrum of three world religions. It really does, and Christianity is. Palpable where it almost the place pulses with Christ. Unity I I don’t know whether it made me believe the Bible anymore, but I certainly felt that Jesus was a historical figure. Yes, I did believe that. Am I wrong to think that?

[Richard Dawkins]

Well, that’s yes.

[MCG]

So she’s a bit more than a culture Christian, but she doesn’t believe the Bible. What’s going on here? So anyways, yes, Dawkins, if you should ask me. Yes, I believe in is.

[Jay]

I’m. Confused. Super national, yes. Did Jesus have a virgin for a mother? Yes. Did he physically raise from the grave? Yes.

[MCG]

So to her, this is a.

[Jay]

Believe that.

[MCG]

Feeling. And she should have turned where to get confirmation. You know, going on the problem Ridge and seeing tree world religion coming to a point. No. How about turn into the Bible? How about giving every zone and yes to a simple question, the docking hacks. Because if those things are true, then there’s nothing of Christianity. But The thing is. As she said, Jesus is no more a historical figure than Churchill to her, it’s of a historical figure for her that what she said. There’s a famous quote that says it is history. When we say Christ died on Calvary. It is theology when we say Christ died on Calvary for sins, it is salvation. When we say Christ died in Calvary for my sins and salvation is what neither of these two folks have, so should we be surprised that she cannot answer simple question and basically.

[Jay]

Yeah.

[MCG]

Turn Christ into a me historical figure.

[Jay]

And she said earlier in the. The interview that her belief waxes and wanes. Doesn’t that sound like the verse where you’re tossed to and fro? You believe one minute? Don’t believe the next. You understand one minute, don’t the next itching ears, the next interesting thing comes around and you’re thinking about this and moving about that, and it’s certainly not anything that we’re making. Fun of it. It’s actually a very sad way to be. Because you are like a tumbleweed in the desert, you’re just. Carried about by any wind of doctrine, just carried about. And you have no underpinning. You have no root. You have no substance. What happens when you stand before the creator of the universe before, whose face the heavens will flee if you’re tossed to and fro your belief waxes and wanes, right? Now on this Earth, what happens when you stand before him? I am a genuine believer. I believe that Jesus Christ died for my sins, and I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ will save me at the end and I will be with him in glory forever. But even I quake in my boots a wee bit when I think that I have to stand before the God of Glory, creator of all. Does that not? Cause I understand it, it won’t cause them to even hesitate because they want to believe that he’s not there. They’ve convinced himself that he doesn’t exist. The Bible says the fool has said in his heart that there is no God and or both of. Are very, very educated, intelligent, articulate fools. I don’t say that with malice. I say that with sadness because they’re not the only ones. They just happen to have microphones and platforms from which they can project all of their thoughts and their ideologies and their crooked ideas. That there is no God. Ohh, there’s no God, but we really like this culture that’s built on him. We love it, but there’s no God.

[MCG]

Yeah, but here’s the problem though it is not. That her feet waxes and wean because all of our feet waxes and when at times the problem is not that the problem is the object of a fate. Because when my fate wax and wanes, what do I do? I have to look to the object of my faith, which is Jesus Christ. Yes. And I have to turn.

[Jay]

Good point.

[MCG]

And I have to turn to his word. Yes for that foundation. But if she doesn’t believe that foundation, which will be scripture being the word of God. And she clearly doesn’t believe that because she can’t even answer that she believe in the virgin birth and the resurrection from the dead, clearly the object of her fate. Kind of. Cooper, when, quote UN quote her feet waxing the wind. So basically again, she’s just a cultural well more than a cultural Christian, but don’t believe in entering the Christianity teachers.

[Jay]

Yeah. Good point.

[MCG]

OK.

[Jay]

So here’s the thing, right. They’ll be quick to look at us and say that, you know, you believe in pie in the sky dreams, you believe in nonsense fairy tales, myths you have no. Reason to believe what you believe and what they don’t understand, I think, is that it’s not the faith. Faith is nothing if you don’t have, like you said, I I like what you said. The object of your faith is what’s super important. The object of our faith is Christ and him resurrected. He died, was buried and rose again. That’s the object of our faith. And so like you said, I really appreciate what you said because it’s not a blind faith. This was a historical figure as they say, but he was so much more than that. He was God in the flesh. All they have is that Ben Shapiro thinks the same thing. He was just some Jew that tried to start a revolt against the Roman authorities and. Was crucified for his trouble. That’s all they’ve got. So according to them, Jesus is still in the grave. And he was no one important. And he was no one that was significant. And yet for Christians, obviously to everything, he’s the object of our faith.

[MCG]

Ohh yeah. Well if Dawkins did one good thing in this is that he doubled down. Here’s the final clip we have of this interview.

[Richard Dawkins]

No, no. And that’s that’s quite different, but do you believe that his mother was a was a virgin?

[Rachel Johnson]

Yes, yes. Well, maybe that was a mistranslation of.

[Richard Dawkins]

You you don’t, are you?

[Rachel Johnson]

Well, that’s biologically impossible, isn’t it?

[Richard Dawkins]

Of course it is, yes.

[Rachel Johnson]

Well, I mean, I mean, I used to make a joke that most second children are virgin births because you can. Anyway, we we we don’t want to go into that. But yes, you know what I’m saying? Were you pleased that Rishi Sunak talked about Christian values in his? He said Christian values of British values in his Easter message. You seem to be on the same page.

[MCG]

Yes.

[Rachel Johnson]

Change.

[Richard Dawkins]

Yes, I I didn’t hear that. But but but yes, I I I suppose so. But I I don’t want to be misunderstood. I mean I I do think it’s nonsense but but the the, the, the Christian belief for the I mean today is Easter and and of course I don’t believe that Jesus rose from the dead and.

[Rachel Johnson]

That’s what he said.

[Richard Dawkins]

I don’t believe you do either. Do you?

[Rachel Johnson]

Do I believe that Jesus raised from the dead?

[MCG]

Yes, it’s a simple question.

[Rachel Johnson]

I mean, you’re really putting me on the spot. I would like to believe he did. Yes. I I mentioned the resurrection.

[Richard Dawkins]

Yeah, that’s different.

[Rachel Johnson]

I mentioned the resurrection, by the way, just quickly because I’ve been told we’ve got to stop when my son.

[MCG]

Of course they they you have to stop because he’s holding your feet to the fire.

[Rachel Johnson]

My son was two. We took him to church and the priest said you can ask me anything and he said that my two year old son said ask the priest. Do you know Jesus to be true or do you believe Jesus to be true? To be and then and do you see what I mean? And he couldn’t answer that question himself. Anyway, or God. Anyway, listen. Lastly, just one thing. Does it matter? I’m going to ask you again if Christianity is a minority religion in this country.

[Richard Dawkins]

Yes. I think it matters from a cultural point of view.

[Rachel Johnson]

And there’s a very clear answer from you, Richard Dawkins. Thank you so much for joining us from I look like new college, but he, Richard Dawkins, Prof Dawkins is the renowned evolutionary biologist, author of the God Delusion.

[Jay]

Can I say something about the virgin birth and the resurrection earlier in this podcast I went on a little bit of a rant, not rant, but just a long explanation of why the resurrection of course is so important and it was in the context of Ramadan replacing Easter. OK, the reason why you can’t have the Christ without the virgin birth is because. Adam is the first man we inherited our sinful nature from him. If Jesus had any sin, whether it was sin that was imputed. From his father. Adam. Right. Or if it was sin that he committed, God would not have raised him from the dead. If there was any sin, imputed or otherwise, he would not have raised him. He would not have been the acceptable sacrifice. He would not be the perfect, sinless, spotless lamb. Of God. But God raised him from the dead. The whole linchpin, the whole hinge that Christianity rises or falls on is the resurrection. And so I find it interesting that he questioned her on one of the two most important points, the Christian faith of Virgin. Earth and the resurrection. You can’t have one without the other. Like for Christ, it’s all or nothing. What are the chances that all of the prophecies and all of what was written in Scripture and what was prophesied about him before? And could be fulfilled by one person. What are the odds? I think some smart theologian tried to calculate the odds. At one point. I don’t remember what number he came up with. What are the odds it to me it seems like the actual ludicrous position is to not believe that to think that everything spontaneously came from nothing, to think that somehow you can have. Cultural Christianity without the Christ of Christianity, that seems to me to be the more ludicrous position. Am I missing something?

[MCG]

Here. Ohh I don’t think you are you know firstly. As I said before, yes, I believe that his mother was a virgin because as you say, if. Not yes and. They no, there’s no such thing as biblical Christianity.

[Jay]

Amen. Absolutely.

[MCG]

Yes, I believe Jesus will from the dead, because if not, there is no such thing as biblical Christianity. First Corinthians 1512 to 14. Now, if Christ will preach that he rose from the dead, how says some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there be no resurrection of the dead?

[Jay]

That’s right.

[MCG]

Then is Christ not risen? And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain and your faith is also vain? Yeah. And we are found false witness of God, because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ, whom he raised not up. If so, be that the dead rise not.

[Jay]

Mm-hmm.

[MCG]

For if the dead rise not then it’s not Christ raised. And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain.

[Jay]

And ma’am?

[MCG]

Here. Yet in your sense, Rachel, you cannot have it both ways.

[Jay]

And. Amen.

[MCG]

I will say, though, good on him, the whole racial feet to the fire and expose our hypocrisy because she’s a big hypocrite. Ohh, I’m more than a culture Christian. No, you’re not. She does not believe the Bible. She does not hold to the basic fundamentals of the faith, but yet she laments the laws of the fruit of the faith. What else do you expect when people who call themselves Christians believe nothing that the book teaches, nor do they follow the book. The Muslims laugh at us because of all our empty claims. At least the fundamental Muslim practice, what they believe Christ. 20 we call ourselves Christians, and we do all kind of stuff we don’t have to follow the book and we don’t have to do this stuff stuff. But anyways, I’ll leave that alone. But is it just me, or did she really said she had her super super duper Smart 2 year old?

[Jay]

MHM.

[MCG]

Because I have a 2 year old right now and I have had three other two year. Old never had they. Maybe my 2 year olds just weren’t smart, but they never act such deep tillager question. So any child I’m saying. I don’t believe her. I don’t. Believe. Her for one minute that her two year old words, so thoughtful and so articulate, to ask the priest or whoever she said that deep theological. Yes, dear.

[Jay]

Maybe a three-year old, I’d believe it. But a 2 year old? Nah.

[MCG]

I I wouldn’t even know. But anyway, I’ll leave that right there. So she asks Richard Dawkins again, you know, does it matter if they lose the culture, Christianity and stuff like that and.

[Jay]

I’m teasing.

[MCG]

I think it matters more than from just a cultural point of view. It matters from an eternal point. Of view? Absolutely. Better question is not so much a culture. What UK is losing? What about eternity? That the better question? So let me ask you, Jay, is cultural Christianity enough?

[Jay]

I think that we’ve answered that question a gazillion times in this podcast in this recording, but it’s definitely worth answering a. And cultural Christianity is not enough. It is a lie from the devil that somehow you can be in a Christian culture. Perhaps have Christian parents like Richard Dawkins did. Or maybe you went to a Christian School. Or maybe you went to church here and there. And somehow you think that would make you right with the God of the Bible. It does not. It does not. But if we do not bow the knee and give to Christ the honor and the glory that his name is due, we will bow the knee and do that for some other thing. We’re made to worship. We’re made to exalt something, the heart. Is an idle factory. If you don’t have the God of the Bible there to worship, who is the only one worthy of worship, you’re going to worship something else. And in our current society and our world today we worship everything but the one true God. Ourselves, our money, our ideas, our ideologies, everything has the preeminence except for the one to whom glory should be attributed to that idolatry will cost you your soul. You will pay for that by means of an eternity in hell.

[MCG]

MHM.

[Jay]

And none of us want that. I mean, we’re dragging Rachel and Richard Dawkins through the dirt right now and reacting to this video, but we don’t want hell for them. We know that the path that they’re on will certainly lead to their eternal damnation if they don’t turn. And believe on the Savior and we say that every time we get on this microphone, we are talking to people who might listen over the ways of the Internet. Perhaps someone will click on this and if you hear nothing else from this podcast, even if we’ve annoyed you because we’re not eloquent and articulate as these two were in their particular interview. Please hear this.

[MCG]

Yeah.

[Jay]

You cannot be saved by being a cultural Christian. You cannot be made right with God just because your parents were Christian. You cannot be made right with God simply because you feel like you’re a good person. You cannot be made right with God because you feel bad about your sin. You cannot be made. Right with God, because you had a Bible at one point. Or maybe you have good morals, or maybe you’re a different religion and you follow that religion earnestly. Or maybe you’re just spiritual and you just really, really feel from your heart that if we could all just be good people and nice to one another, that everything will be. OK, you cannot get to God that way. The chasm is too great. It is too deep. You cannot cross it. You cannot make your way to God. You must be brought to God. You must be saved. The only way that you can be saved. Is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ who died for your sins specifically, not just the sins of the whole world? Yes, and Amen he did. But for your sins specifically, when I say your sin, go ahead on and put your name in there. If your name is John, you can say John Jesus died for John’s. Sentence. Or MCG said it before that salvation is knowing that Jesus Christ died on the cross for your sin to pay the penalty that you could not pay, he had no sin. He committed no sin and no sin was imputed to him. He was born of a virgin, as prophesied by the prophets of God. In the Old Testament, hundreds of years before, and in some case thousands of years before, he lived a sinful life. And when. He. Carried that cross up to Golgotha when he was nailed to that cross. What he was putting to death was your sin. My sin, not his. He is the perfect, spotless, blameless lamb of. God, who takes away the sin of the world. But you’ve got to turn from that sin. You have to turn away from your cultural Christianity. You have to turn away from working your good works to impress or to appease him. You have to turn away from believing that somehow your accolades or your degrees or. How well you’ve developed yourself. Could somehow ingratiate you to God. It’s equivalent of serving someone filet mignon on a trash can lid. It is not holy he will not receive it. You are not the perfect Lamb of God. Christ is the perfect Lamb of God. You can’t improve on his sacrifice. His is one and done, and there is no other sacrifice. To be brought. He accomplished it. It is finished. All that you have to Duel Center is to turn from your sin, receive his gift of salvation, acknowledge that he is the Savior. Bend the knee, your heart, your whole life, seed to him. Believe that he died on the cross for you. Turn from your sin and follow him. Him. He promises that anyone who turns from their sins and turns to him, he will not turn them away. He will save them and he will raise them up at the last day he has promised this, and God always keeps his promises. He is God in the. Flesh. He did all of those things for us and that’s why I say. Because of all of that, I say cultural Christianity is not enough.

[MCG]

Thank you for listening. To get ahold of us to support this podcast or to learn more about removing barriers. Go to: removingbarriers.net. This has been the removing barriers podcast. We attempted to remove barriers so that we all can have a clear view of the cross.