Episode 167

“Christ is King.” Any genuine Christian would wholeheartedly agree with that statement, acknowledging that because the Lord is King, we will bow the knee and worship Him in spirit and in truth. So when did that statement become a dog whistle for anti-Semitism? In this episode of the Removing Barriers podcast, recurring guest host Sam join us as we discuss the less-than-amicable parting between Daily Wire and Candace Owens and Andrew Klavan’s explanation of it. Apparently, Candace’s declaration that Christ is King was the last straw that saw her booted from the company and labeled a bona-fide anti-Semite. Why would that be the case? Could it be that the Klavan, though a professing Christian, has deep issues with the exclusivity of Christ? How should genuine Christians, who would affirm that Christ is King, evaluate the possible effects of proclaiming this apparently evil statement in a lost and dying world? Listen in now for this and much more!

[Sam]

And I’m trying to look at it from their perspective, right? Especially when Klavan and Jeremy Boreing claim to be Christians, then that means that they’ve acknowledged that Christ is king, and that really shouldn’t be so controversial to them. But if she said stuff in support of Hitler, if she said stuff in support of other.

[Jay]

Mm-hmm.

[Sam]

Obviously anti-Semitic things. Then why don’t they use that? Why make a controversial argument with your weakest points when you have stronger points, right?

[Intro]

Thank you for tuning in to the Removing Barriers podcast. I’m Jay and I’m MCG. And we’re attempting to remove barriers so we can all have a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

This is episode one hundred and 67 of the removing various podcasts, and in this episode we will be discussing the rift between Candace Owens and Ben Shapiro concerning in my opinion, the exclusivity of Christ.

And cohosting with us in this episode is Sam. Sam, it is indeed a pleasure and welcome back to the Removing Barriers podcast.

[Sam]

MCG, Jay. Thanks for having me.

[MCG]

Great. Glad you’re here with us again.

[Jay]

Hi, this is Jay. MCG and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to removingbarriers.net and subscribing to receive all things, removing barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at removingbarriers.net/donate. Removing Barriers, a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

Alright, Jay, as usual, let’s start with the background. Tell us the background of this riff, and then we’ll bring some in on this.

[Jay]

This has been such an explosive event online, I don’t think there’s any need for a background. Anyone that follows any conservative or libertarian leaning pundits would know what’s going on. But in a nutshell, about a month or two ago, Candace Owens. They say left the day. The wire, more like she was fired from the daily wire, but this was a build up after many many months of tension between her and Ben Shapiro over the Israel Gaza conflict. Ben Shapiro, an Orthodox Jew who absolutely is in 100% support of Israel and condemns. Anyone who isn’t while Candice Owens of. Course on the opposing side, not necessarily on the opposing side. She’s not a Gaza supporter, but she is not in favor of continuing to support Israel in their conflict with Gaza. She is critical of the approach that Israel has taken to the Gaza conflict and that, of course, puts her at odds with Ben Shapiro. All of this led up to her being released from the Daily Wire. And in a series of tweets. In response, she talked about how she is free, and she warned Ben Shapiro in the months prior that you cannot serve God and Mammon, and that blessed are the peacemakers. She used a lot of scripture in order to poke at his stance on Israel, and ultimately, which brings us to what this podcast is about today, her statement. About Christ is king. And apparently this is something I didn’t know. This is apparently a dog whistle for anti-Semitism, so we’re going to discuss that here today in order to figure out what in the world does that mean and how does that. Relate to the exclusivity of Christ.

[MCG]

So Sam, let me bring you in here. What do you think the term Christ is King means in terms of the conflict or the rift between Candace and Ben Shapiro?

[Sam]

You know, that’s a really interesting question and I’ve been trying to dig around and see. Why that phrase is so controversial? Because especially. I mean, we’re talking about we have Candace and we have Andrew Klavan in particular. And Shapiro doesn’t surprise me because as long as I’ve been around, which isn’t terribly long. Almost 40 years. It seems like a lot of the Jews that I’ve known aren’t too. Keen on talking about Christ, right and. Talking about Jews that do not profess Christianity, so I’m not surprised that Ben Shapiro may not like to hear that. But I don’t understand Andrew Klavan, who claims to be a born again Jew, if you will. So he says that he’s accepted Christ, but then he seems to claim that Christ is king as a dog whistle, even though he says Christ. Is king at least some clips I’ve heard from him. He talks about how he had to make Christ King of his life and whatnot, and that was difficult for him. But then he says that saying Christ is King has some racist connotation to it. I don’t really understand. And it I do know that there have been times in history where you know various Christian groups, or at least groups with the label of Christianity have attacked Jewish people. And of course, there’s this whole idea of, I forget the formal term, but it’s like replacement. Is it called replacement theology or something like that?

[Jay]

Yeah. Replacement theology. Yep.

[Sam]

Yeah, yeah. And the whole idea is that Christians have replaced Jews, and Jews are no longer important. So maybe that’s where that whole idea comes from. I for one, do not subscribe to that idea. I think that the Jews are still in. To God, you look through the Bible and you see where the Jewish people are. The bride of the father and the church is the bride of Christ. So I still think that Jewish people are important from a biblical sense, if you will. So I don’t think that the church has replaced the Jews, and in fact, you know, you even look at just the gospel was supposed to be to the Jew. 1st and then to the Gentile. But the only reason why the Gentile church is, you know, maybe the leading proponent of Christianity right now. I think it’s because the Jews have refused their own Messiah. You know, Jesus came from them and they refused him. By and large, you know, not all of them, but many of them refuse. So. So maybe that’s what it maybe it’s like you have a natural born child who, for whatever reason is not in good standing with their parent and an adopted child that may be closer at this moment, you know, and so maybe this is kind of like a sibling rivalry of one being natural and one being adopted. Maybe that’s why there’s this strife.

[MCG]

Yeah, it’s interesting that you brought up the replacement theology because we have done. Episode I think it 149 it will. Hamas war a biblical perspective with Doctor Leopold. And we talked about that a little bit and I put some clips on YouTube and on social media and then we just did an episode. Jewish people. What do you believe with Doctor Henry Barnack and I put a clip of what he said about that on. Social media and YouTube. As well, it is interesting the backlash or the comments I get back, especially from, I would say Christian, I don’t know these people, but folks that say hey, after moving various podcasts, Israel has rejected God, they’re no longer God’s people, stuff like that. And I agree with you. I don’t hold to replacement theology even though. I believe that the church is very special. We did a podcast on that. As well, with a pathogen Lieber, but in terms of crisis, King, I don’t know. I’m trying to take this in context. So I think Candice tweet. I’m just going to do script versus Matthew 5911. Let’s say that the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God, let’s say, which are persecuted for righteousness sake for days and Kingdom of God. Whether he when men shall with value and persecute. And shall say all manner against you falsely, for my sake. So that tweet was the first tweet. Then there was a follow up tweet to that tweet for by Candace. No man can serve 2 masters for either they will hate the one and shall love the other, or else he will hold to one and despise the other. He cannot serve God and Mammon, and the translation she used was God and money, which Mammon is money or worldly possessions, and Ben Shapiro somehow took offense. Fired back and said, Candace, if you feel they’re taking money from the daily wire somehow comes between your God, by all means quit and then I would assume he took offense to something, Candace said. Whether is from the verses 9519 eleven. But the peacemakers between God. Money and candidates responded by saying Crisis King, which I assume came from Philippines to verse 911, wherefore God had highly exalted him and gave him a name which is above every name that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow of every things in heaven and things in earth and things under the earth, and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of the father. Of course, these are technically coworkers. I guess they know each other a little bit better than we would know them. And I assuming Ben is somehow reading between the lines, maybe because of as Jay indicated, you know when Kanye came out and said some crazy stuff about going def con on the Jews, Candice did not publicly condemn him, I’m sure. I’m going to give her the benefit of doubt and say privately I believe she would have said something to him and say, hey, I don’t think that’s, but publicly, she declared him as his friend and she doesn’t have to. See her private conversation between you and. Friends who were they, good or bad publicly, so she didn’t publicly denounce them, but I think. And we’re gonna get into this, I think to some degree being offense as an Orthodox Jew was the exclusivity of Christ. And I want to play something from Ben because it is very interesting to me that Ben Shapiro took offense. To Candace saying crisis King, even if you’re reading between the lines because Ben Shapiro said some stuff about Jesus Christ and about Christianity and a whole. That I would say I was not offended. I’m not offended by him because he said those things, but I know they’re Christians out there that might be offended. So here is something Ben Shapiro said when he was on an episode with Joe Rogan.

[Ben Shapiro]

Jewish point of view, we don’t believe in the divinity of Christ. I think that there you can make an argument that the the Gospels which. Were written significant.

[Joe Rogan]

He was just a prophet, right?

[Ben Shapiro]

Significant. No, no, no. We don’t even believe is a prophet.

[Joe Rogan]

What do you think he? Was what are you guys thinking?

[Ben Shapiro]

I I mean I what I what? I think he was historically I think he was a Jew who tried to lead a revolt against the Romans and got killed for his trouble. Just like a lot of other Jews at. The time who are crucified for trying to lead revolts against the Roman.

[Joe Rogan]

Got killed for their trouble, so he became legend in story and it became a bigger and bigger deal. As time went on.

[Ben Shapiro]

Yeah, he had a group of followers and then that gradually grew. And then?

[Joe Rogan]

Do you think it’s resurrected?

[Ben Shapiro]

There was a. No, that’s not. That’s not a a Jewish.

[Joe Rogan]

Belief. OK. I just.

[Ben Shapiro]

Wanna check? Yeah, no, we’re we’re not into, you know, not in the miracle stories. No, that’s that’s not.

[Joe Rogan]

What are? Zombies. No, you don’t have any miracles.

[Ben Shapiro]

No. No, not not, not by Jesus. Right. They’re they’re ones in the Old Testament. Yeah. You’ve got Moses splitting the sea and all that.

[Joe Rogan]

In here. No. God ones. Do you think happened there?

[Ben Shapiro]

What do I think happened there? Yeah, well, I’ll go with my money and explanation that there was. I mean, it says in the Bible there was a strong E wind. So there is a naturalistic explanation for a physical phenomenon.

[Joe Rogan]

Ah.

[MCG]

So there you have it. Ben Shapiro not only denying the deity of Christ, he’s making light of Christ’s death and resurrection. Basically, if you want to argue against the Benji period, saying there’s no such thing as biblical. Anything. And he doesn’t believe that. And I’m getting. I’m not offended by that, but this is the person who is taking offense because someone’s the crisis king. Not only that, back in 2014 and I’m going way back here, but in 2014. Ben Shapiro replied or retweeted a tweet that he said. At Elijah Cross, I think it is wins with this comment on Jesus. Hands up, don’t shoot pose. I’m assuming this is back Michael Brown. I’m assuming then Ben Shapiro said it should be hands up. Don’t kneel. I’m like, OK, and they have a picture of.

[Jay]

In response to hands up, don’t shoot, Ben Shapiro responds. Hands up. Don’t nail as I’m nailing him to the cross.

[MCG]

Right, you should be hands up though nail.

[Jay]

Hands up. Don’t nail. Wow.

[MCG]

And again, I’m not personally offended by this. They have a picture of supposedly what should be Jesus Christ. That’s not my savior. That’s just a fragment of someone imagination. So I’m not offended by that, but I’m simply saying, what if I had said this hands up don’t gas, would that offend you, Ben?

[Jay]

Yikes.

[MCG]

Because. That’s the ground we’re treading on right now because if you want to make fun of. Of our faith, someone faith or a savior. And we say that you will be offended because now we’re making light of the Holocaust. We are making fun of the Holocaust, making fun of the Jewish people, and that’s not something I would do. But I’m just saying if someone should say that, where would the offence be banned? So I’m simply saying, hey, Ben is not innocent in this.

[Jay]

Someones face, yeah.

[MCG]

And I think we all can be sensitive to some degree. I’ve gone and knock on doors every Saturday for the last umpteen years, almost every Saturday for the last umpteen years. And I’ve met people of many different faiths. And many of them I don’t agree with, but I don’t make fun of their faith. I don’t make fun of the Muslims I meet at the door. I don’t make the fun of the Jews or of the Hindus or of whatever. I don’t make fun of their faith because. Why? So almost saying crisis came, I guess in terms of whatever how he know, Candice could be offensive because Candice may be using it to dig him. I don’t know. That seems a little bit more personal than what is being made. Public. But Ben is not innocent. Isn’t this? If people want to find stuff that Ben say against Christianity, against Jesus Christ and take it as offensive, those are two prime examples. What he says and your will again, and what he said here in the street.

[Sam]

Yeah. Well, you do mention something, MCG that I think I hadn’t thought about and that is that Ben and Candace do know each other, I would imagine reasonably well, at least they did. And so the crisis King thing, it’s not offensive to me. I don’t understand how it would be offensive, but if there is. Any legitimacy to Ben being offended? That to me it seems that it would be coming from some private understanding that they have between each other, you know. But when it comes to public language, to me it makes no sense that Ben and especially again I go back to Klavan because he claims to be a Christian. Why should he be offended by that? You know? And then he’s saying that it’s a dog whistle. Dog whistle. How you know? Especially when he used the same language earlier on in his own video. So where he had to accept that Christ was king and then later on in his video, he says that. It’s a dog whistle, so it’s like, where’s I guess, for me, it’s weird because the daily wire is supposed to be a group that is founded on logic, logical thinking and facts don’t care about your feelings and stuff like that. But now all of a sudden they’re making a whole bunch of feelings based arguments.

[Jay]

Yeah.

[MCG]

Yep.

[Sam]

You know, so that’s, I guess why it throws me off so much this whole. Debate.

[Jay]

The only thing that I yeah, the only thing I can think of that would make sense as to why someone would feel that the term crisis king or the phrase crisis king is offensive would be because there are a group of people as I think we alluded to before, who believe that the Jews should be. I want to say eradicated.

[Sam]

Between this part.

[Jay]

But at least the anti-Semitism should be there because the Jews killed Christ and so because Christ is king, perhaps they think that’s the dog whistle, and that’s where the offense is. Personally, I don’t think she meant it in that way because. Has anyone following this or following Candace Owens knows that she’s recently been on a sort of spiritual journey. I guess you could call it in which she’s been asking questions trying to figure out what the truth is. And she recently tweeted that she has quote returned home, in other words, to become a Catholic like her husband. And. I remember when I read this, I said to my goodness, she jumped out of the pot into the pan out of the fire, into the pan or whatever it is. She hadn’t quite found the truth yet, but there’s, like, this developing spiritual journey that she’s on, where she, at least initially, came to the realization that Christ is indeed king, and perhaps she only meant it in that benign, you know, spiritual way. But because Ben Shapiro is absolutely a hard line on his position on the Israel Hamas conflict on the war, he took it as offense. He took it as though it were a personal dig, a personal attack on him. But like Sam said, I can’t understand or see. Be beyond that, how could that phrase be offensive, especially when it’s true?

[MCG]

Yeah, I think that offense is this, and I think it’s. Biblical Christianity biggest offense is that Christianity, Biblical Christianity claim exclusivity. Biblical Christianity claims that there’s only one way to salvation. John 14 six and acts 412. Jesus said unto him, I am. The way the truth and the life, no man cometh on the father, but by me Act 412. Neither is there salvation in any other, for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. The fact is, unlike other quote UN quote religions, because I don’t believe true biblical Christianity, the religion I believe it’s a relationship with Jesus Christ. But unlike other religion, Jesus claimed that either you believe in him or you go to hell. You’re either for him or you’re against him. And I will say that my friends is Christianity’s biggest or greatest offense is that Christ is exclusive. If you look at all of religions, if you leave it look at the daily wire, look at when they all in the room talking. I remember observing this even years ago where they were talking and they were saying, you know, Ben was like, you know, according to the Jews or Judaism, this is what we believe. And then Matt Walsh will come in and say, OK, Catholics, we believe this and it’s. All a big Kumbaya kind of Melling of religions, and all of us going to end up at the same place because we are truly sincere in our religion, biblical Christianity says. No, there’s only one way to heaven. There’s only one way to find favor with God, and that is repentant faith in Jesus Christ. And if someone joins the daily wire, and I even think Candice is safe to be honest. But if someone joined the daily wire and say no to that ecumenical kind of Kumbaya, kind of a melding of the religions. Which I believe, which is crisis King is. Praying. I think that’s the offense, because this Christianity is greater offense. You knock on doors, you’re gonna talk to a lot of people. A lot of people believe, oh, my grandma was such and such. She never got saved. But she’ll be OK. And then go back to the works and all these things that we talk about. Of course it can’t be saved by works. Let me even talk about the crisis. King again is a bit more because the fact is Christ is not just. King Christ is King of kings. He’s not just Lord, he’s Lord of Lords. He’s not just God, but he’s God of God. He’s exclusive and say that. Tell people that, man, that is offensive.

[Sam]

Yeah, you know, you mentioned that that makes me think because you’re quoting scripture just a little bit ago that makes me think of, I want to say it’s revelation. In 20 verse 4I. Should probably look it up. But I. Want to say that in Revelation 24 the Bible talks about and I saw Thrones and they that sat upon them and judgment was given unto them, and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped. The beast neither his image neither had received his mark upon their foreheads or in their hands, and they lived and reigned with Christ 1000 years. So I I kind of thought of that verse. In that passage, he’s reigning for 1000 years and you have people that did not worship a false God, and in particular it looks to me like the the false God that’s going to come about around the time of the tribulation. And so like you said, Christ is not only King of Kings and he’s, you know, God above all other beings, if you will. But you have price. Two really is going to run. In over an earthly Kingdom for 1000 years, so Christ is, I mean, he’s well beyond a king, you know, he’s in a whole nother level. And so anyway. Yeah. So I guess that’s the more biblical evidence for our. Belief, if you will.

[MCG]

Yeah. We talked a little bit about the dog whistle. You know, I’m going to leave that alone because we think we just talk about it. But and again, these are people that know each other internally. You know, we all can say things and take offense because you know. I know, I know my wife pretty well and she can say something or I can say something that will seem innocent to some people, but might be a double meaning someplace. But I want to ask you this time because it seems to me that the meaning of anti-Semitism has changed over the years. Much like to be honest, racism within the black community have changed over the years. And of course, this is the audio. Request all of us in here black include. And Sam, at least that’s what. They tell us so. How would you define anti-Semitism, Sam? It’s my question for. You.

[Sam]

Oh, wow. So when I hear people say anti-Semitism, I take it that they’re referring specifically to the Jews cause the Semites is a much larger group than just the Jewish people. When I hear people refer to anti-Semitism, I think most of the times that they’re talking about being against the Jewish people, right? And so, you know, usually when you hear the term racist being thrown about in American politics, you think somebody’s racist, they hate black people. Is the like the most common way of referring to it? And so I kind of look at it as a similar way, referring to somebody who might hate Jewish people.

[Jay]

Yes.

[Sam]

But in some of the language today, anti-Semitism seems to be different because it seems like if you have a disagreement with Jewish people. Well, then you hate them is the way I see some of these arguments going these days. And you know, I have disagreements with my wife. I don’t hate her, right? I have disagreements with my parents most of the time. We’re good, right? Most of the time, Melissa and I are good most of the time. You know, me and my brothers, sisters, whatever. We’re good. But we do have arguments, and that doesn’t mean we hate each other. You know, so. I don’t think the definition should be this, but it seems like in modern times, if you disagree with a certain group of people then that means you hate them and it seems like if you disagree with. Jews then today, the way we use the language, it seems like that makes you now an anti Semite you know shouldn’t be that way. So maybe you know because sometimes I might disagree with how the Jewish people might go about some things, not because I hate them, but because I love them. Like going back to religion. I disagree with a lot of Jewish people over. Whether Christ is Messiah or not. And I don’t disagree with them out of hate. I don’t disagree with them because I’m trying to replace them or anything far from it. I think that they’re still important and I love them, just like Christ obviously loved them and died for them. And so when I mention that crisis and Messiah, it’s out of concern because, you know, all throughout the Bible and this includes. The Torah right there are references to the Messiah who’s coming to save the Jews as well as the rest of the world from the sin that Adam and Eve brought into the world. Or I guess it’s mainly on Adam because it’s through the father that sent us transferred. But anyway, so I guess to me it’s interesting. Because ultimately and maybe This is why they’re so upset, ultimately Christianity is the truest manifestation. And when I say Christianity, Biblical Christianity is the truest manifestation of Judaism, because Judaism says that there’s a Messiah coming, the Messiah is Christ, right. They don’t recognize that today. But the Messiah is Christ. And Christians are trying to point that out to the Jews, and that’s not a disagreement out of hatred. Those that are biblically based Christians, it’s a disagreement because we’re concerned about their. Eternal destiny, you know? So it’s not hatred, it’s love.

[Jay]

Well, in our culture today, any type of nuanced conversation is increasingly difficult. As you said, Sam, if you criticize something, you hate them, even if you were to give an opposing view their credit where credit is due. Ohh you’re a traitor and you’re you’re you’re. You’re a sellout and it makes it impossible to have. Civil dialogue in order to engage the other person in order to witness to them in order to share Christ with them, and we have to realize that when it comes to anti-Semitism at the root of it is a hatred for God himself, any type of anti. Say any people, any type of respect of persons, which is what that is, it’s an affront to God himself. And so Christians ought not to partake in that. I know that there are a lot of Christians who tend to almost say a lot. There are people who profess Christ that also hold what we would call anti-Semitic views and they don’t realize that those are completely. Incompatible. You can’t do that. So now Candace Owens has. Said this, set the Internet on fire. She’s been fired and apparently now the daily wire has been able to put a gag order on her, so she can’t even talk about the things that happened while she was there at the daily wire. She can’t even talk about. All of the things that would be helpful in order to understand what actually happened there so it doesn’t look like we’ll be getting any information from her or from daily wire on that front. But Andrew Klavan did take to his YouTube channel in order to address the issue.

[MCG]

I have the clips I want to go through. I have about maybe 10 minutes of Andrew Klavan talking about that. I want to talk about the anti-Semitism stuff because. To me, antisemitism always mean discrimination against the Jewish people just because they’re Jews. So it’s basically for me, racism is in terms of the black, will be discrimination against black people just because they’re black. So to me, if they were in, like, in the same vein, and I know in the US, we tend to look at the. Jews, at least the stereotypical Jew, is that they’re rich. They have money, and whatever the case may be, and the black people in the US are the ones who really went through a high. That time, and I think that’s wrong, because if you look at the history of the Jews, if you’re going back to the Bible, they have been in captivity and slaves and even in modern times, the Holocaust, these are a group of people who have been through hard, extremely difficult times. Other people, even at one point there were even a nation until 1940. And they were able to return to the land. So these are people I’ve been to a lot. And for black people to look and say, hey, you know, we have been to. More I wouldn’t want to do the comparison, so which one is worse? But hey, the Jews have been going through this for a long time, but some people would make an argument the Egyptians had the Jews in slavery in the Bible, and the last time I checked, Egypt is in Africa. So that means the Africans had the Jews in slavery, you know? So I think anti-Semitism. It’s real. I think that it is something you want to be conscious of, that you’re not doing. I don’t discriminate against anybody because of their religion or race or whatever, but just like racism, I think he has morphed into what Sam says is disagreement. Mm-hmm. I can’t understand why is it that I can’t disagree with Ben Shapiro on Israel and not be anti Semite? Again, I think that’s weird. Candice was saying. I don’t think Candice is for Hamas, but at the same time I don’t want to see innocent quote UN quote Palestinians being killed, just like I don’t want to see innocent is really being killed. But at the same time, I think the bigger issue is expression when it comes to us in the West and in modern life. None of us have seen war. None of us really don’t know what it is. War is messy, right? So they’re going to be innocent people dying no matter what. I’m sure in Ukraine and Russia, they’re innocent people being killed, especially in Israel and Hamas, the innocent people being killed on both sides. I’m not defending Israel or Hamas here. And I’m trying to distinguish between Hamas and the and the Palestinian people because I believe Hamas is the problem here. When you’re fighting a war and the person you’re fighting against is not playing by the rules. What do you do? It’s like 2 basketball teams playing a game and one team decide the rules don’t apply to them. The other team decide the rule apply to them so the other team is taking the ball and running with it, running out of bounds and doing whatever they want and the other team is trying to play within the rules. Well, if that’s gonna be the case, you’re gonna lose all the time. So when Hamas is using civilian. Shields and putting their base on the hospitals and padding their weapons in preschool. Fools. What should it really do? You know, I have never seen war, but what should the Israeli people do? Israeli defense force do so. Ohh well, I know that there’s some bad people there, but there are some innocent people there. I’m not going to bomb it. Yeah, maybe. But at the same time, if they’re bumming me from there, what do I do? And then at the same time, you know, I can understand if I was born in Palestine. Whose side would I be on if I was born in Israel? Whose side would I be on? I think there’s a lot of emotions going on here. There’s a lot of things going on here and quite honestly, I don’t quite grasp everything that’s going on. But I know war is messy and I know that, you know, ladder, morals, silly, silly things that we have going on in our heads, especially in the US. Where we have never seen war on our soil. I don’t think we have the right to be pointing fingers and saying this and that and this and that about Israel or whatever the case may be, because I personally believe this. If Hamas were fighting the war based upon international laws and Israel was fighting the war international laws, the war will be over long time and Hamas would have been wiped out. But they’re not. And I also believe that. If Israel would have their way, they will take out Hamas and the Palestinian people can live a peaceful life. But if Hamas would have their way, they will totally wipe out Israel off of the land, because that’s the phrase from the river to the sea. Palestine shall be free. That’s what the phrase means. Totally get rid of Israel. I am. To Israel. But I’m also pro-life in terms of I don’t want to see innocent people die on any side of this. You’re listening to the Removing Barriers podcast we’re talking about Candace Owens versus Ben Shapiro and the exclusivity of Christ will be right back.

[Jay]

Hi, this is Jay. MCG and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to removingbarriers.net and subscribing to receive all things, removing barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at removingbarriers.net/donate. Removing Barriers, a clear view of the cross.

Do you have the desire to earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the Saints? Answers in Genesis can help. They provide biblically sound books, CD’s, DVD’s, home schooling, materials VS materials online. Courses, digital downloads and the Answers magazine and more. Plus, tickets to the Creation Museum and Ark encounter go to the answers bookstore by clicking the link in the description section below so you too can be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks the reason of the hope that is in you.

[MCG]

Alright, so as Jay was alluding to, we’re going to go through some of claven response. So on the day Candice was quote UN quote release fired or whatever you want to call it, Angie Claven in the Andrew Klavan show spend about. Were responding to the reason why Candace was. The release. No, I’m not gonna pay the entire thing or the whole hour, but I kinda grab some relevant portion of it, at least portion of it. I found to be relevant and we’re going to be going through those clips and given a response to it, so. The first clip from Andrew Klavan.

[Andrew Klavan]

So there’s a lot of things that you can say that people accuse you. That are true that people call racism. But you guys are smart people, right? And you know that people can use the truth to mask wickedness. You know, this, right? The devil does it in the Bible, right? The devil comes up to Jesus to tempt Jesus. And he quotes scripture. He speaks the truth to mask evil. Right. So if I’m the kind of brave conservative which I am, who will sit and talk about. High crime and black neighborhoods have criticized Soros. You know, without caring whether I’m called anti-Semitic or anything like that. That, and you’re the kind of person who hates people because of the color of their skin or judges people according to the color of the skin. It’s easy for you to blend in with me, right? We’re sitting around talking about high crime and black neighborhood. You sitting there going. Yeah, the high. Oh, the crime in black neighborhood. But I’m not on your side. I am not on your.

[MCG]

Side, yeah, when I hear that, of course I would say we under. Then in the Windows overtone on the tones, double meaning or whatever term he wants to use what he’s saying there so we can understand hey, some people can say something nice, and especially in the US that’s kind of the culture say something nice, but kind of mean something bad like in the South there was a bless your heart and it could mean a lot of things. When you say, bless your heart so. I can understand what you saying here, but what exactly are you saying, Cleveland? If you’re telling us that Candice is anti-Semitic, come out and tell us that you.

[Sam]

Know, but yeah, I didn’t quite understand why he brought that up. The whole talking about high crime in black neighborhoods and whatnot. I mean, I agree with him. If you look at many black neighborhoods, there is a lot of crime, but I’m just not so sure why he brought that up. Honestly, so there may be some reason behind it and maybe I’m just having a hard time following him.

[MCG]

Yeah, he’s using the equivalency comparison where he was saying hey. I might be saying that there’s a lot of crime in the black neighborhood, but I am not racist. But the racist would agree with me that there’s a lot of crime in the black neighborhood and it’s because they’re black. So even though you agree on that, both of you are not the same. So I think what he’s saying here, Candace, is the anti Semite here and we might agree on some things. But the equivalency is that she’s anti-Semitic and the only reason we are agreeing is because we are agreeing on the small fact, like there’s a lot of crime in the black neighborhood. That’s what I got from him. But again, he didn’t come out and say she’s antisemitic. So he’s saying OK, she’s using overtone on the tones, whatever, but.

[Sam]

Oh.

[MCG]

Yeah.

[Sam]

It’s interesting that you mentioned that because here I go again because I kind of took it the opposite way. But what you’re saying makes more sense because the way I’m thinking is, you know, he pointed out in his comparison some issues in black neighborhoods with crime and whatnot. But he’s saying that he disagrees with the idea of. Being prejudice against black folks, right, or at least in a racist sense, which? OK, fine. I’m cool with that. I think pointing out issues in a community as long as it’s not because you want to destroy them. But if it’s like constructive criticism. Prism. Well, that’s good. You know, that can be a good thing. So for me, for him to say that he has some constructive criticisms of the black community, but he doesn’t hate them. In my mind, I’m hearing well, Candace can have some constructive criticisms of the Jewish community, but it doesn’t mean that she hates them either, right? That’s how I was hearing it. But you’re saying the opposite. Is what he was trying to imply.

[MCG]

That’s what I. That, and I think it makes sense based on what he says next, but.

[Jay]

Yeah, he’s building his case to make his argument that Candace Owens was being anti-Semitic viable. He’s building his case. He’s saying, you know, a racist person can say these things, but their motives are hidden by the veneer of good or even.

[MCG]

Right.

[Jay]

Truthful statements, so I’m sure that we’re going to be hearing a lot of other clips, but he’s building his case that Candace Owens was being antisemitic. But my issue with that. Is the same issue that I have with a lot of the race baiting and the riots that were going on, particularly in the summer of love 2020. How do you know that someone is genuinely racist apart from God? No one can truly see into the heart to know what a person is actually thinking and feeling. Unless of course they say it or their actions. Prove that they are either anti black, anti-Semitic or whatever the case is. So in the same way that he implied that you would need a level of discernment in order to. Determine who is saying something or doing something evil, hiding it behind a veneer of good and of truth. You need discernment in order to find who those people are. My question to him would be what discernment are you using or implementing? When you point your finger at Candace Owens to call her antisemitic? He hasn’t made his case to me yet. So far. I’m not convinced yet, but go ahead.

[MCG]

Well, he continues. Here is the second clip.

[Andrew Klavan]

When Jeremy Boyne has to sign that check, he’s doing something that he cannot abide. He cannot. Biden, it’s not cause Ben is as far I know, Ben is a friend and he loves Ben. And we all love Ben. You know, it’s and I understand that. But that’s not why he can’t abide it. He he’s people say things including me. People say things on this outlet all the time that Ben doesn’t like and Ben Ben disagrees with. But Jeremy signs their checks and doesn’t stop them. This is too far. Not because of Ben, but because of what it really means. It’s really this hatred of Jews, this level of hatred of. Jews is a hatred of God, a hatred of Christ. It’s a hatred of Jesus Christ. I know they say, Oh no, it’s cause the Jews, you know Nick Fuentes. He says the Jews religion is based on rejecting Christ. That’s crap. Jews were around for a long time before they were prepared to bring Christ into the world. That is not what defines the Jewish religion. When I. Who have given my life to Christ, who have bowed to Christ as I have bowed to nothing else on this planet who bends the knee before Christ the King. And I come on this outlet, which I was at from the very beginning, which I helped to build this outlet that I love. I I admitted. I love this place. And I know that such things are being said under the aegis of the Daily wire. It has to end. It has to stop. You know, it’s just the same. It’s just the same as if someone supported abortion, right? No matter what price we pay for it, no matter what crap we take for it, no matter what they call us and they’re going to call us everything. If Candace wants to say those things about the Jews, about Hitler, no matter how she dodges and weaves. She has to leave the daily wire. She has to leave for one reason above every other. There are lots of reasons, but the one reason she has to leave above every other is because Christ is king. We cannot let him be defamed, even if they call him the Jews. We cannot let Christ be defamed at this place because Christ is king.

[Jay]

OK, I don’t understand. When did Candace Owen say something about Hitler or about the Holocaust in general? That would lead Andrew Klavan to believe that she was being anti-Semitic? There was a very clear accusation there about her saying something, but he hasn’t explained what that is. He hasn’t made his point, he hasn’t made.

[MCG]

His case? Yeah. In the next clip, I think he’s going to start. Outlining the strikes against Candace. But for now, the first could be played. I think you kind of in this case now he’s making the accusation, then the next group, I think he might be bringing the evidence, but I don’t have a problem with this standard. This standard is this standard. If they say, hey, at daily wire, you can’t do certain things they can’t do certain things. That’s fine. But to me, it’s hypocritical because that’s not what they publicly say. I understand their publishers. They’re not a platform. YouTube and the other places, their Twitter, their platforms, they shouldn’t be censoring your speech. But we are publishers. We have sensitive speech. That’s fine, but don’t come back and tell me that you are, you know, free speech absolutists and all these things that you normally would say. Because to me, a beacon of free speech, except for speech you dislike. Don’t tell me that your personalities have freedom except for those that don’t agree with Ben. And whatever the case may be. No, he hasn’t. Proven. Candice is anti-Semitic except just to declare that she is. He hasn’t really given the fact, but I think in the next week he might be giving some stuff. He mentioned Hitler learned stuff like that. I think going to go into a little bit of that. But.

[Sam]

I’ve been looking through some of the news articles on Candace Owens and anything that she might have said regarding Hitler, and I see several outlets are accusing Candace of saying some things about Hitler. I’m not so sure how much of it is actually her words or how much of it is being kept in proper. Context. But there’s one outlet, the hill, that was saying something about Candace, suggesting that it may have been fine if Hitler would have been able to run Germany under certain circumstances or something. I don’t know. I do know that a lot of news outlets can take stuff out of context or really the support your understanding of what somebody really said. So I want to dig into that. Further, I guess for me the biggest issue with Candace, the thing that I have a little bit of pause about her is more related. To her and Kanye, right. It’s kind of funny because Kanye said some really, and I think we may have discussed this earlier in the podcast. Kanye has said some really interesting things, and that’s putting it very diplomatically. He said some really interesting things about the Jewish people. And he said things that I don’t think are necessarily the best things to say. OK, for instance, one thing he does, Kanye does. He has spoken, right? He has said things in an agreement with replacement theology. But his has a more racial component to it as well. He says that the blacks are the true Jewish people. Crazy stuff like that. And it’s hard for me to not Kanye for some of the stuff they saying, because I believe there’s a strong element of truth to what he’s saying. But I think it’s truth taken way out of context. So like. He says that the blacks are the true Jewish people. Well, I don’t think so because what he implies is that a lot of the Jews that are in Israel are false Jews. I don’t believe that. I believe they’re Jewish people in Israel, right. There are many other people groups in Israel too. But I believe that there are a lot of Jews in Israel. But on the other side, there are a group of black people that clearly have Jewish heritage, right? That I don’t think that American blacks. By and large, I don’t think we are amongst that group, but there are people in Africa that are clearly of Jewish heritage. I think you know, I mean when you do DNA tests on them, you can see that they clearly have Jewish heritage. And then if you look at some of their traditions, it’s very closely related. It may not be right, right, it may not be by the Bible and whatnot, but they do have like a spoken tradition that seems to come from Judaism as well. So I think he’s on to something when he says that, you know, at least some blacks may be Jewish just as much as. Maybe Russian Jews might be Jewish. But they are the only Jews. And if I’m gonna ascribe the term Jewish to any group of people, it’s gonna be the people in Israel. Honestly. But going back to Kanye, he said a lot of things that I think are not useful and that are hurtful. And I don’t quite know why he said this about the Jews. And Candace is kind of. Either backed him up or been really quiet on it, and so maybe that’s why. I guess that’s the one thing that, to me, gives Klavan a little bit of ground to attack Candace on this whole anti-Semitism. Yes, the question, I forget what it was, but maybe this is answering it. I think that Candace’s connection with Kanye is complicating things here and it does make me wonder. I don’t know if I believe that Candace is 100%. Innocent in this exchange. Right. But I think that if the fight is going to be over, is Christ King or not, then that’s a losing fight because Christ is king. And just because you say Christ is King doesn’t make you anti-Semitic. Even if can. This is I’m not saying she is, but even if she is anti-Semitic, she’s right. When she says Christ is king, you know so is she anti-Semitic? Uh, I don’t know. I don’t think I found sufficient proof. That you might say that Kanye is, I could buy that argument. A lot more.

[Jay]

Yeah, I’d sooner say Kanye is than her, although I’m not completely absolving her of any guilt here. But if you told me that Kanye West or what does he go by now? Yay. If you told me that he was anti-Semitic, I’d sooner say ohh yeah sure. I could point to something that would label him so then Candace Owens, but maybe in the next clip she’ll say something that actually I haven’t heard anything yet. I don’t know. What you think?

[MCG]

Yeah, I don’t think they’re innocent parties. And in the side here, I think that there’s enough blame to go around.

[Jay]

You mean the TIF between Owens and?

[MCG]

On both, yeah, both of them, as I outlined earlier, I think Ben Shapiro’s taking offense over things that he has said, equally offensive stuff. I showed the examples early in the podcast where he said stuff about Christianity that could be offensive, and Candice may have said something that maybe offensive to the Jews.

[Jay]

MHM.

[MCG]

People I don’t know that I’m not the Jewish person, so I don’t know exactly everything on every nuance that would be offensive to them, but again, we don’t know the people. I don’t think Candace is totally innocent in this. And definitely Ben is not totally innocent in this neither. But I would do agree when it comes to Kanye West that, but at the same time, Kanye is probably crazy. Anyway, so who? Who knows? You can’t really call that crazy man and tie anything because you know, who knows if he’s talking clearly or what? But I’m gonna go to you.

[Sam]

I don’t know if I agree with. That because Adolf Hitler was clearly crazy. Crazy. I’m not saying that Kanye is at the level of Hitler, right, but I guess I’m trying to make that like, look at the logic of that argument, and to me, you know, crazy people can do a lot of damage.

[MCG]

Well, that’s true, but there’s some things that you can’t really hold them accountable for. I think Hitler being crazy and Kanye being crazy is at two different levels of crazy. I don’t think Kanye is going know they killing anybody. So two different levels. But let’s go on the clip three and see what Cleveland has to say because he’s going to know outlying, I think, all the strikes against Candace.

[Andrew Klavan]

So Candace stood by her. Friend Kanye West, when he started, started spouting crazy stuff about going def calm on the Jews. Fine. She has a mentally ill friend. She stood by him, you know. Fine. You know, it was a little uncomfortable, but still, you know, So what? You know, she attacked the sky. Rabbi shmuly. I will tell you, if all honesty. I don’t even know who Rabbi Shmuli is. I have no idea. I didn’t look him up. I haven’t seen anything from him. You know she’s complaining about him. Fine. You don’t like a rabbi? You’re allowed not to lie. You’re allowed not to. Like Ben. You’re allowed not to like anybody you don’t like. If you can spell it out for me. What the problem is, but when you start saying things. Like some of those books, Hitler burned weren’t so bad. You know, I I was shocked. This is something Candace actually said. I was surprised to learn that the books Hitler was burning or the Nazis were burning. They weren’t. They weren’t good books. They were bad books. There were socialist books. So, so, you know. That’s true. Burning the book is the the act of a savage, first of all. And when you start with burning books, you start burning people. But they burned Joseph Conrad, one of my favorite writers, Kafka, Hemingway, Jack, London, and yes, some socialists, some of whom were extremely talented and some of whom were extremely interesting. Like Karl Marx is extremely interesting writer, with whom I deeply, deeply disagree, but I don’t burn his books because I’m not a. When you start saying that you’re saying that’s a dog whistle. I’m sorry. I know it’s a leftist phrase. I know they use it, you know, randomly with anything you say. I understand all of that. Still. Still the. The depredations of the Nazis against the Jews are one of the most well documented record. Muted. Atrocities in human history because they’re they’re Germans, they’re Germans. They keep records. They keep very good records. We know these things happen. They weren’t burning books, you know, they they also hated Einstein because his science was Jewish science. They hated Mendelson. One of their great composers, cause his music was Jewish music. That’s the way they thought there. It’s lunacy. It’s lunacy to think that way. So when you start to say, well, you know, some of those books they burned are, you know, are bad books. I’m sorry. That’s a that’s a a dog whistle.

[MCG]

So he building up his case here. And of course he talked about she defending Kenny. At least we don’t know what she said to him privately, for all I can remember when this was going on publicly. What she’s saying, Kanye, it’s her friend that she’s not going to talk about stuff, private stuff that she and her friend let’s talk about. I’m gonna give it a benefit. Couldn’t believe that she condemned what he’s saying and tell him he’s wrong. Privately. What she figured is a private conversation between me and a friend. I’m not gonna say that’s what they come across. Me as I could be wrong. At least I hope she at least privately tell him. Hey, these are some crazy stuff you’re saying, but he going on here and like, I wonder, can we put this in isolation? Of course. I wouldn’t tell anybody to go there and burn books and do other stuff. You put in isolation. Could some of the books that Hitler were burning could it be? That they were in. Read bad books? I don’t know. I I don’t know, but.

[Jay]

Yes, it’s totally possible that some of the books that he burned were bad books, just like some of the books he burned were good books. Now that argument would have weight if she were supportive of book burning and used that as a reason for supporting book burning. But I don’t think that she ever expressed actual support for book burning. Or for the actions of the Jew, she just made a declarative statement. Some of the books he burned were good. Some of the books he burned were bad. Unless, of course, I misunderstood her statement. I didn’t see that in her statement.

[Sam]

You know, I don’t see a problem with. Learning it depends on what the books are. I don’t see a problem with burning books altogether, right? Meaning like just because somebody burns a library doesn’t mean it’s bad. What if the library is a library of *********** and somebody burns that whole library? I don’t mean like, kills people, but, like, takes all the contents out and burns.

[Jay]

Mm-hmm.

[Sam]

I have a problem with that you know. OK, I’m talking about ethically, there may be some legal you might have to go about the right way when it comes to the law, but just from an ethics standpoint, I don’t have a problem with that. I guess it depends on what the contents are, you know. If I understand correctly and I want to look into it further, it sounds like Hitler may have burned some books related to communism and certain forms of socialism, and I don’t have a problem with that either. But obviously there are other things that Hitler did that I do have a problem with. Hitler was very much obviously against the Jewish people, and Hitler also didn’t like. Blacks very much, as far as I understand, either I don’t really like that obviously so. But then I guess for me like the whole deal with Kanye and anti-Semitism, I can totally understand Candace not blasting Kanye too. Much for the anti-Semitic things that he was saying publicly because they are friends and clearly Kanye is going through something right now has been. For a while. And from my understanding, because I did do a little bit of digging into the whole Kanye situation, maybe there’s several months, maybe almost a year ago and. My understanding is that he’s had several deals go bad and he suffered. Quite a bit at the hands of some Jewish businessmen, right. And I don’t really want to go into the details of it, but it’s something that I would if I was going through what I understand Kanye went through. I would struggle with it too. And I think he’s taking his hatred of those particular Jewish businessmen. And he’s translated it to the whole. Jewish people is kind of what it looks like to me, which I think is no good. You know, just cuz. If somebody has a bad experience with a black person, doesn’t mean that you need to apply it to the entire black population, right? Right. So I don’t know why Kanye is doing that, but I think that might be part of where Kanye’s anti-Semitic language is coming from, from some really bad experiences. Unfortunately, and so maybe that’s why Candace also was keeping a little bit. Why?

[MCG]

Yeah, I’m sure she knows him a lot better than we do. At least one with public stand this point. If she claimed to him to be his friend here. I think Angie Claven is really, really reaching again. I’m not pro Candice nor Pro Ben Shapiro. Even in this case, I think I would cite a little bit more with Candace Owen because venture period. Seemed to be more on his sealing side than his logical side here, but Angie Cleveland haven’t convinced me yet that she’s anti-Semitic, at least not in the clips we played thus far.

[Jay]

So another thing that we need to keep in mind here too is that we need to be careful about which lens that we’re looking at this. With the modern day lens says going back to the book burning that you shouldn’t be burning books at all, and you shouldn’t be condemning anyone at all because who gets to determine what book is acceptable? What person is acceptable? What culture is acceptable so you can’t condemn anyone because none of us are? In a position to. Judge good culture from bad culture, good books from bad books, et cetera, right? But Christians need to have the Bible as their grounding point as their source for the final authority on all faith in all practice. So if God says something is not acceptable. Should be perfectly acceptable to abolish or destroy that thing. If you don’t believe that, and if you don’t believe that the Bible in God’s word is the final authority, then a lot of Christians are gonna have a lot of issues with first time. You’re 15 where God tells Saul to completely. Wipe out the Amalekites from man to infant all the way down to their animals as well, so that’s an episode for a different day. I’m not trying to go down the road of how we would evaluate that through ethical lenses, but if someone says like Sam said, for example, you know he doesn’t have a problem with book burning, because what if it’s a pornographic material or whatever? It’s obviously something. That has a negative effect on the person on society if allowed to proliferate, and if you allow it to let loose, it has a detrimental effect on society, then we should be able to destroy that thing, whatever it is. That’s not very popular to say today because, for example, we can see with our own two eyes the very detrimental. Corrosive effect of the LGBTQIA agenda on society on our children, on our culture. But if you stand up and speak against it. Then you know that’s a problem. So there’s a lens that we look at these things through with. Look at these things through with I think I said that right that I don’t think that people like Andrew Klavan are actually doing, he’s arguing from a perspective that I don’t think is biblically based or biblically sound.

[MCG]

Yeah, I would agree with that. But let’s go to click, see what he has to say, what I’m understanding he’s doing. He’s building his case. Unkindness.

[Andrew Klavan]

When you retweet a post saying a Jew is drunk on Christian blood, which goes back, as I’m sure you know, the old blood libel that, that, you know, Jews eat Christian children. You know that’s a dog whistle when you start to refer in this kind of clever way to a certain group of people in Hollywood corrupting blacks and killing Michael Jackson. You you’re you’re not allowed to then put on an innocent look and say, well, I’m just saying there’s certain people just like few, you know, it’s not. I’m just saying, you know, you’re messing with us. You’re messing with us. Everyone knows it. And no one is fooled except those people who want to pretend to be fooled because they hate the.

[Jay]

Jews. OK, that is a very strong accusation. Not only did he take her personal opinions and make them unacceptable, he’s now extending it to everyone else. Who would even give her opinions the light of day or the time of day. And labeling them as anti-Semitic as well. Which I think is an incredible stretch. You are allowed to say that you think that Hollywood killed Michael Jackson, or you are allowed to say that there is a concerted effort in Hollywood to pervert and destroy black people or the culture at length. You are allowed to say that I happen to think that’s true, but to say that and then be labeled antisemitic for it or to hear someone say that. And not immediately come out condemning and be called anti-Semitic. To me that’s quite a stretch that’s unreasonable in my mind. I don’t know what you think Sam.

[Sam]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I do think it’s a little bit of a stretch. I don’t understand why. Because he does make several accusations. I don’t know who he’s accusing of this. It seems like he’s attributing it to Candace because he’s talking about retweeting the whole Jewish people and Christian children’s blood and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. And he talked about the whole Adolf Hitler book burning and stuff like that. If those are the issue. Why didn’t they say that those were the issue? Why is it Christ’s king? Is the issue, right?

[Jay]

Great point. Great. Point, yeah.

[Sam]

Because in the first was the first clip that you played from claven, he said that Christ is the king or something like that where he said Christ, I’m trying to remember it, word for word. He didn’t quite say Christ is king, but he said that Christ was king, but using different words. But then all of a sudden, when somebody else says Christ is king, it’s an issue. Why not focus on the things that really are the issue? If it’s Hitler, say it’s her espousing Hitler or defending Hitler. If it’s her defending all these. Other more obvious dog whistles. If she actually did retweet those tweets than it does, you know, make me wonder, well, why did she do that, you know? But why does he have to focus on Christ as King? Well, that’s not the issue. At least it shouldn’t be. Especially again. He claims to be a Christian. The other thing is he attacked Candace for going after Rabbi Shmuley. Saying that. That is, I think he’s using that as another argument for why she’s anti-Semitic and whether she is or isn’t. To me, Rabbi Shmuley is a fair target to attack, especially from a Christian perspective. Rabbi shmuli. He’s known for many things, but one of the things he’s known for, and I don’t want to go into much detail. He has. I’m trying to think of a good way to say. An adult.

[MCG]

Think of the podcast podcast with his daughter.

[Sam]

He has a podcast and he has an adult either he or his daughter. No, he does. He has an adult shop, if you will, and his daughter has in Tel Aviv.

[MCG]

Right, right. So yes, So what I understood is that he and his daughter either had a podcast or YouTube channel where they talk about adult content. Yeah.

[Sam]

Yeah. So. And she, Candace attacked that and I don’t have an issue with her attacking him on that. You know, that’s really weird. If you’re going to have any kind of a podcast like that, how come Julia and his wife aren’t talking? Right? Why is his daughter in this? And then, yeah, they’re going down kind of an odd path there. It’s not even like a marriage podcast. It’s kind of, yeah, it’s just odd. And I don’t really feel comfortable with that whole situation. Yeah.

[MCG]

To me is the same thing as hate to get this more political, but it’s the same thing as Ashley Biden talking about showering with her dad again. I don’t have any daughters, but I think at some point you need to start respecting your daughter. Your femininity into some sense. If your dad, you have a lot of daughters. And so I’m sure you understand this way more than me. But at some point your daughter is a female and you are male and she needs her privacy just like the boys need their privacy as well anyways.

[Sam]

Oh yeah. Yes. Yeah. And for for my family, we start that pretty early, honestly. So after about a year or so, I don’t even change the girls diapers or anything. I let Alisa take care of that, you know? And so I just take care of the boys, if you will. But then on top of that, you know, our kids, you know, I want to say. By the time Sam was. Three, he’s potty trained and for the most part he can take care of things on his own, you know? So yeah, I totally agree. You need to give your kids privacy and then the whole thing about fathers and daughters and that just gets even weirder to me. So I don’t know why they’re comfortable with that.

[MCG]

Yeah. Yeah. This is something I do personally for most part. If I’m going to hug a child. You know, I like kids, but if I’m going to hug a child, I normally go down on my knees so I can actually hug them properly because most of the time when kids hug you because they’re so short, where does the head?

[Sam]

Hmm.

[MCG]

Go. Places you don’t want the head to be, and I think out of respect, I go down and I hug them. Yeah. I just think that when it comes to even grown. Children there should be some boundaries, and I think she’s right to call out that there’s no boundaries between this man and his daughter because you’re having a podcast talking about these kind of things.

[Jay]

Yeah, OK. So apparently this particular rabbi was very, very good friends and a spiritual adviser to Michael Jackson. And since Michael Jackson died under, let’s say, questionable circumstances, the fact that Kenneth Owens did have a line of questioning at that time may be the argument there is that her questioning of Michael Jackson’s. Death is a direct attack on Rabbi Shmuli because obviously he’s a Jew and so maybe that’s where the anti-Semitic line is coming from. Is that what they’re saying? Because kind of sounds she’s well known for her very healthy distrust of Hollywood. And of course, there’s a disproportionate level of. Jewish influence or power in Hollywood, then represented by any other ethnicity. There are a lot of Jewish executives in Hollywood and banking, and all of these successful things in the US. States well, I suppose, because Rabbi Shmuli was Michael Jackson’s spiritual advisor, and she criticized Michael Jackson’s death. The manner in which he died. Perhaps that’s and Andrew Klavan’s mind. One more straw on the camel’s back. I would have him believe that she had more of an antisemitic bent and ultimately saying crisis King. Maybe that’s where that’s coming from.

[MCG]

Yeah, I don’t know. But he continues again. He’s just building his case. He’s laying brick up on brick up on brick, and I think this is the climax for it right here on. This next clip.

[Andrew Klavan]

The biggest truth that Candace told in that way. That I find. Again, and this is not personal animus torture, but I find difficult to excuse this when anybody does it. The the truth that hid wickedness that I thought was the most wicked truth to use was the truth that Christ is king. It is almost exactly 20 years. Since I acknowledged the kingship of Christ in my life and over the universe as well, it’s almost it’s like 2 weeks and it will be 20 years since my. Doesn’t. It was hard for me to do and it was hard for me to do. I’m a proud. Man and I wanna be. King, I wanna be in charge of my life. I wanna take credit for the good things that happened to me. I wanna say, you know what my opinion is about right and wrong. I don’t want to bend the knee to anybody. And people who know me will tell you I don’t bend the knee to. Anybody except Christ, the King, and the day I took off my paper crown and bowed my knee before his crown of golden Light, I became a true man and a free man. And the joy in my heart has only grown. You know, when I did this, by the way, the priest who baptized me said, you know, Christians won’t accept you. They’ll you’ll still be a Jew. And I said, well, I am that that’s my race. I’m a Jew. I’m proud of my race. It’s a it’s a great race, has done many, many great things, including write the Bible. And, you know, I am. But that hasn’t happened at all. Christians have welcomed me with open arms except this. Christ, the King, anti-Semitic. Round. Christ is the king, and one day every knee will bow and recognize it because he’s not just my king. He’s king of the universe. But when you use that phrase to mean that God has abandoned his chosen people, the Jews. Through whom he came into this world Incarnate, and that he’s broken his promises, his covenant with the Jews. You are quoting scripture. Like Satan does in the Bible, you are quoting scripture to your purposes. And that, to me, is specifically wicked.

[MCG]

All right, I have a lot to say about it, but I’m gonna be a good husband and let Jay go in.

[Jay]

OK, OK. So he defined who the Christ is. King people are anyone that has a replacement theology, anyone following covenant theology? Yeah, so pretty much anyone following covenant theology that has a post millennial eschatology. Would be the anti-Semitic crisis King crowd and I think that’s a very dangerous thing to say because. Just on the surface, I won’t ramble on for long. I don’t think that’s true. I don’t think that everyone who reads the Scripture and thinks that somehow the church has replaced Israel is doing it with anti-Semitism at the root of their. Perhaps they’re reading the scripture and that’s what it looks like to them. They haven’t fully understood it, fully grasped it, haven’t. Ascertain the entire Council of the Word of God. That doesn’t mean that they’re antisemitic, so he’s just lumped a ton of people into the anti-Semitic group. So we’re talking voting bakum, we’re talking right response ministries. We’re talking everybody. See, that’s an. Moscow ID. We’re talking all of these Christians are post millennial in their eschatology who believe that Christ is dealing with the church now and because Israel rejected their savior, their Messiah, that Christ is dealing with the church now and that Israel is no longer important in the sense that. Who? The scripture makes it out to be, of course, that’s not my position. I don’t believe that at all. But there are genuine believers who believe that, but they’re not doing it because they hate the Jews. They just, you know, they’re reading their Bible wrong. You could say that, but to call them antisemitic and evil and malicious, I think that’s a bit of a stretch.

[MCG]

MMM.

[Sam]

Yeah, I mean, I don’t know if I have much to say to that. I agree with what Jay saying, you know.

[MCG]

Yeah, I have a.

[Jay]

Lot. OK, here we.

[MCG]

Go. So firstly I’m breaking down this week. Well, firstly, he’s on personal to me, right this thing between Candace, Owen, Bench Bureau dealer. While he’s so personal to me, these things that he’s building up and ultimately now saying this is the struct that broke the camels back all of this. Some personal to me. But then he said, it’s 20 years since his baptism. No, he did not say since his salvation. To me, that is very important. Just as interested in the fact that something to note salvation is not obtained through baptism, cleaving, it’s repenting, faith in Jesus Christ, and that alone. Ephesians 2, verse eight and nine, Titus 3/5 and the whole book of Galatians all tell us that it’s not by works right and many other scriptures.

[Sam]

I did notice.

[MCG]

But based on what he just said, he showed me that this relationship didn’t end. It exploded.

[Jay]

Yeah.

[MCG]

This wasn’t a happy, you know, we have a disagreement. Let’s go a step. Ways this is you are the scum of the earth. Get out of here. Don’t show your face again. Kind of thing. And the fact that they gave her gag order kind of probably solidified. Maybe that opinion is correct. Again, Jay alluded to it. He’s conflating two things. I do believe that the Jews are still God chosen people. Episode 149 is, well, how much were biblical perspective episode 163 Jewish people. What do you believe? We talk about this and that’s the functional position that I have hold. I don’t believe the church has replaced the. That’s a bigger topic for an episode, but Dear Chris has just said their Christians believe differently and I do not believe the anti-Semitic because they believe differently. I do believe that they’re generally born again Christians who do not hate the Jews, but they believe that the church has replaced Israel. It is merely an opinion, and a difference is in doctrine. There are a lot of people. I’m sure Sam and I don’t agree on every doctrinal. ********** my wife and I probably don’t have gravitational point, and that’s fine. I think there’s some fundamental doctrines of the faith that you should be holding to like Jesus is God, that the gospel is the that burial of resurrection of Jesus Christ according to the scripture, that people are safe to repentant faith in Jesus Christ. But there’s a lot of other things out there that we can argue and agree to disagree on. You know, someone might be right, some might be wrong. We’ll find it when we go to heaven. You know, I’m not gonna split over somebody because they tell me that Saul wasn’t saved. And I said no. Saul was saved. You know who knows King Saul, that is. So to say, hey. If you believe that the church has replaced Israel, you anti-Semitic, I disagree. Again, I said this earlier. I put some clips of 163 on God and there are people on there who claim to be Christians basically saying ohh remove embarrassed podcast the Jews of Abundant Jesus Christ. They have done this to Jesus Christ and all these things. No, there’s a church. Yeah. That’s your opinion. I don’t reply to them. I don’t think they’re anti-Semitic. Some of them weren’t too nice with their words. Not a big deal to me because if that’s the only thing you’re getting from the episode, you’re really overlooking the general point of the episode. I don’t expect everybody to agree with my opinion that my doctrine or whatever case may be. I think we can go to the Bible, say, OK, the Bible is the final authority, so I really don’t see how he’s making that leap to say, hey, all these people, they anti Semite because they upset me. I want a case. Maybe I would just say this. I don’t believe Cleveland is safe. I don’t believe he is safe. But that’s just my opinion. And I do believe that God has not abandoned the Jews. I think the Jewish people can be saved the same way everyone else can be saved and after Jesus. Right. So in that respect, there’s neither Jew nor Greek. They need a banner free. But we are all one in Christ. We all can be saved to Jesus Christ no matter what. But anyways, Sam, do you have any to add or should I go on to the next clip?

[Sam]

No, I think it’s well said what you said.

[MCG]

All right, here is for me, the crowning jewel of what Cleveland had to say. This was probably the most shocking, if you can believe it.

[Andrew Klavan]

You know when you spit that phrase at Ben Shapiro? My friend Ben Shapiro. And and you know, I I understand this all every all of you who love Ben. And I love Ben and Jordan Peterson. You all want to see them find Jesus cause you know what joy and and freedom that gives you and and you certainly feel that it alters your relationship with God. But when I think about this, to be honest with you, you know, and I know some people will disagree with this, but I. Life is not a game show where you guess the name of God and and you get to go to heaven. Honk, you know, yes. The name is Jesus. I look at Bens life and I think if if Ben were to embrace Jesus Christ, it would cause devastation to his family, to the people who love him, to the people who listen to him, to his position in the world. I just have this feeling that God has put this guy where he wants him to do what he wants him to do, and as you know, I feel that, you know, the Jews who are not abandoned by God. I I feel the same way about Jordan. Jordan struggles with this stuff and I I feel like I have a inkling of why he has to struggle with, but his struggle is inspiring to other people and I think God wants his boys where he’s got him and I there’s no thought in my mind that he is going to send these guys into battle and then turn his back on them. Asked when they come marching home, it’s not a game show, you know, crisis, love, christo’s truth. Christ is the logos of the moral order. You follow love. You follow truth. You follow the moral order. You will find yourself all. Intimately at Jesus Christ’s door. I don’t worry about Ben and Jordan Peterson one little bit. And so when you spit Christ the King at them, to insist that they have been rejected by the one who sent them to do the work that they’re doing. Ah, no, no, no, no, no, now. That that just doesn’t sit with me in the least.

[MCG]

Wow. Wow. So basically Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson can have their own way to God. And that’s OK, because that’s what God put them in. So when Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the father, but by me, that was a dog whistle for Jesus Christ. OK anyways. So, my question to Andrew Klavan would be this. Why do you hate Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peyton so much? Not to present to them the saving grace of Jesus Christ, because that’s basically what you’re saying. If Christianity biblical Christianity is true, Jordan Peyton Way and Ben Shapiro’s way will not lead them to God. It’s clear. But you know, The thing is. And claim and claim to be a Christian. The thing is that he’s showing here is just the weak, pathetic Christianity of convenience that we live in the Western world, and I include myself, you know. We give up nothing for the cause of Christ. So Ben was put there. And if Ben gets saved and follow, Jesus is going to lose his family and all this stuff and that again, that’s hard. But the Bible says in second Timothy 312. Yeah. And all that will live God in Christ Jesus has suffered persecution. Luke 1426 to 33 pretty long. But I’m gonna read it. If any man come to me. And he that his father and mother and wife and children and brethren, and so. Yeah, and his own life. Also, he cannot be my disciple. And whoever doing that bear his cross and come after me cannot be my disciple. For which of you intending to build a tower, says it not done 1st and contact the cause, whether he has sufficient to finish it. Let’s happily after he had laid the foundation. And it is not able to finish it. All that behold it begin to mark him sane. This man began to build and was not able to fit. Or what King going to make war against another king so they’re not down 1st and consulted whether he’s able with 10,000 to meet him that comment against him with 20,000 or else while the other is yet a great way off his Senate, an ambassador and desired condition of peace. So likewise whosoever he be of you that forsaken. But all that he had, he cannot be my disciples. Our Christianity is weak and mine too. I’m not trying to just cap and cleaving, but this is just pathetic the way he’s. Ohh. Well, Ben wouldn’t want to come to Jesus Christ because it’s. What are you willing to give up for the cause of Christ? Ben needs salvation, just like all of us. Jordan. Peter needs salvation. And dear way is not going to work because the Bible made it clear. Jesus said it out of his own lips. The most dogmatic statement can come off of the lips of man, he said. I am the way not a way. But he said I am the way. The truth and the life no man come identified about by me. But you tell me you love these guys so much. But you wouldn’t want to see them repent of their sin. The trust Christ as their savior to get to heaven, because somehow God is going to abandon his word and say ohh Ben was a good guy. Jordan was a good guy. I put them on the earth for this purpose and they are fulfilled their purpose and because of love and because of that, they’re going to get into heaven. What about what Christ said? Christ made it clear. Can’t make it any more clear. There’s no way they can turn and twist. John, 14, six. I am the way the truth and the life. No man coming. The father by me ask 412. Neither is there salvation in any order. For there is none other name. The heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. What are you saying here, clevin this totally. Totally is the biggest part of this. Forget about the Candice thing. Forget about all the anti-Semitic thing to me you hate your friends and you tell me all you love them but you hate them. But The thing is, you yourself, in my opinion are not safe. Yes, Christ is love and truth, but he also make it clear how someone can be saved. In John Chapter 3, verse one to seven, there was a Jewish man who came to Christ. The Bible said there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi we know that thou are the teacher come from God, for no man can do these miracles, that thou doest except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born again, he can. Not see the Kingdom of God. Nikorima surrounded him. How can a man be born again when he’s old? Can he enter a second time in his mother’s womb and be born again? Jesus answered, verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God, that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit. Marvel not, I say unto thee. He must be born again. Does Ben shipper need to be born again to enter the Kingdom of God because he’s made it clear he cannot enter the Kingdom of God anyways?

[Jay]

Let’s steal man his argument right and say that what he meant to say was that even though Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson, all of these folks are not yet saved, that God is using them anyhow, and that God will bring them to salvation at some point. It’s not based on what we think they should be believing. Right now it’s all on God’s timing. Let’s steal man his argument and say that that’s what he was saying. Even so, he still made the accusation that when Candace Owens said Christ is king. Being that she was doing it with malice and with a hatred for them, the anti-Semitism and all that sort of thing, my basic point I go back to this is that he simply can’t prove that he would have to declare himself God and say Candace Owens. I say that that’s what you meant because I could see your heart. I could see what you were thinking. I could see what man doesn’t see. I could see inside of your heart. And that’s exactly what you were saying. And also when he said that she said that Christ is king and somehow that. Means that he used the word dispose of them or like gonna throw them away or is done with them because they’re not saved right now and they’re useless to God. They’re trash. They’re garbage right now because they’re not saved right now. Candice Owens didn’t say any of that. All she said was Christ is king again. They put a gag order on her. They’re not talking about it. So we don’t know what was happening. Behind the scenes, maybe she walked into the office one day and said Ohh I’m gonna obliterate all the Jews. Maybe she did. I don’t know. I don’t think she did. We’re not Privy to that information. But based on what’s out in the ether right now, he’s making a lot of excuses. Questions about what she says and what she thinks and feels that are baseless.

[Sam]

Yeah, I guess there are two points that pop back into my head and that is if they have issues with Candace saying anti-Semitic things. Obviously anti-Semitic things. Why don’t they focus on that? Right. Not on the whole crisis King thing, because that is not obviously racist, especially, and I’m trying to look at it from their perspective, right. Especially when Clayton and Jeremy Boring claim to be Christians, then that means that they’ve acknowledged that.

[Jay]

Yeah.

[MCG]

MHM.

[Sam]

Christ is King, and that really shouldn’t be so controversial to them, but if she. And stuff in support of Hitler. If she said stuff in support of other obviously anti-Semitic things, then why don’t they use that? Why make a controversial argument with your weakest points when you have stronger points right than theory? At least, that’s what they’re claiming, even in his YouTube video, he’s claiming to have. Stronger points. We’ll then focus on the stronger points, you know, not on this weak point that shouldn’t even be an issue with you cause you claim that Christ is king in your own life, you know. But I guess the second point that I have is.

[Jay]

Yeah.

[Sam]

Of course, Christ is King is offensive to them, and maybe it’s even offensive to some of us because Christ isn’t king in our own heads, right? And he made that clear to me because he’s talking about how, you know, he thinks that God has been where he is and he has Jordan where he is for a reason. And it’s fine that they don’t acknowledge Christianity and whatnot, and he’s talking about, like, for their own personal lives sake, right. That’s fine that they don’t. Knowledge. Christ. Because Christ put them there anyway, and they’re doing great stuff. And then he talked about how you know, if they were to acknowledge Christ, that would cause problems and then family and a loss of status or something like that, and it could even cause him like financial difficulty and whatnot. So to me, that means that status and.

[Jay]

MHM. MHM.

[Sam]

The financial whatever and all that stuff, all those points are more important than Christ being the one who’s in charge of your life. Yeah. And if those are more important, then that means that Christ is not king. It means that status and money.

[MCG]

Yep.

[Sam]

Is your master. You know, so then you know, if Christ truly isn’t your king, which is what he’s pretty much suggesting, then of course, the statement Chris King would be offensive, you know. And I think that applies to at least based off what he’s saying that would apply to Ben and Jordan. And then I even wonder if it applies to him as well, again because. Even some of the points that you pull up, it doesn’t seem that convincing to me that he understands who Christ really is, and I’m not convinced that he knows what salvation is all about because he focuses on baptism when that’s not. Where your salvation comes from, your salvation comes from understanding that Christ died on the cross for your sins, for the world. But that includes you. And if you accept Christ’s gift of salvation, you are saved. And then baptism is just a way of showing the world that you’ve accept Christ’s gift, you know, so I don’t know why. No, I do know why. It does make sense to me that the statement crisis King would be offensive because in their mind. He really isn’t, you know. At least that’s what it seems like to me.

[MCG]

Yeah, it’s just completely stating my opinion that these are men who claim to be safe. And again, I don’t personally believe they’re safe, but I don’t have the corner on that to point to say who is safe and who is not. But when you say something like that to me, I’ll just reiterate it to me. You sound like you hate these men more than you love them. I don’t care what’s your position. In this world, I would love to see everyone come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ because the Bible tells us after death is judgment. There’s a judgment that’s coming, and the only way you can be covered or escape this judgment is through Jesus Christ. That’s not my words. That’s Jesus Christ’s words. So either tell me that he’s a liar or there’s multiple ways. Then you’re still saying he’s a liar. But I think we can close with discussion. The important thing here is is neutrality and option because I alluded to this earlier that it seems to me like a big Kumbaya at the daily wire along. As you don’t claim the exclusivity of Christ and you want to be ecumenical and accept their Catholic view or Judaism view or their whatever view that different people that they rewire may hold to whatever fall under the Conservative umbrella, just don’t dare talk about the exclusivity of Christ. So I’m going to choose it to you, Jay. About neutrality in this last comment.

[Jay]

No, I don’t think that neutrality is an option. And I think that neutrality is what’s gotten Christians into a whole lot of trouble here trying to blend everything together except every one tolerance. I think that’s what’s gotten us into a lot of trouble. I think that if we genuinely had a biblical understanding of salvation, of the personhood of Christ. Who he actually is and of our role in the society in which we find ourselves right now, the coming Kingdom, that the Lord will bring. I think that that would solve a lot of our problems, but we’re not doing that. I think we’re trying to appease the conservative. Wing the libertarian wing and everyone that is against the progressive left. We’re trying to appease them and as a result we compromise on a lot of things. We actually shouldn’t be compromising on. So for Andrew Klavan to say that he was baptized 20 years ago and then he points to that as a marker of his salvation, that just goes to demonstrate. How when it comes to certain things, particularly what Scripture draws a hard line on, we should really be towing the line and take a hard line position as well. Even if we steal man, his statement about his salvation. And and say that he meant to say that he was baptized 20 years ago in order to show the world or to demonstrate to the world that he is now a genuinely saved man. His response to this entire crisis King thing is completely antithetical to what I think Christ would have him do. If you are genuinely saved, you would be appealing to your coworkers your. Jordan Petersons and your Ben Shapiros and your whoever else is claiming Christ, but isn’t actually saved. You would be appealing to them to be saved. You would be appealing to them to. Right. The so-called culture war on that front on that basis. But he’s not doing that. Instead, when someone says Christ is king, he’s bowing the knee to what the world interprets that statement to mean and attacking someone because of that instead of affirming. Yeah. Christ is king. Let me tell you how and why and let me call you. To him, because he is indeed king, so neutrality is not an option. The only reason why he would respond like that or anyone would respond like that for that matter. Is because we are neutral. It’s because like Sam said earlier, Christ is not indeed king in your head and in your heart. And so you’re responding in that particular way. And so in that way, neutrality is not an option.

[Sam]

Yeah, is neutrality an option? I guess I’m looking at some scripture here. In particular Joshua 2414 and 15. And it says now therefore fear the Lord and serve him in sincerity. This is Joshua, I believe, talking to the Jewish people. Serve him in sincerity and in truth, and put away the gods, which your father.

[Jay]

MHM.

[Sam]

Served on the other side of the flood and in Egypt, and serve Ye the Lord. Right. That’s verse 14. And then verse 50. And says and if it seems evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day, whom you will serve, whether the gods which your father serve that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell. But As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord right. So, you know, based off of the language that I’m seeing from Joshua. We have to choose whether we’re going to serve. God the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who is the same God that Christ is part of, or are we going to serve some false God of some sort? But whatever the matter, you can’t be neutral. You’re gonna be on one side or the other. You’re gonna be on the side of truth, or you’re gonna be on the side of false gods. But you have to choose. And so in our case, I think the choice is. Obvious and that is the choice is Christ, and we have to choose to make Christ as king in our lives. If we do not, then ultimately we’re yielding our lives to Satan. You know, I guess this is kind of going into funny theology, but all those other gods, all these false gods, ultimately, they point you to say, yeah, I think they’re probably underlings of Satan, but Christ is the only true.

[MCG]

I’ll just end with a clip from Voda Bagam. We played this in the last episode, but I think it’s apropos for this one as well. We’ve voted book I’m talking about it’s neutrality and option.

[Voddie Baucham]

Neutrality is not an option. And and so many Christians are under the deluded impression. That if we just keep our head down, if we just go to church, if we just practice our faith in our home, if we, if we, if we just do that, that that they’ll leave us alone. But they won’t. They won’t. I don’t know if you’ve been watching lately. But it’s not enough. For you to just refuse to be hostile. It is now demanded. That you bend the knee and confess Caesar’s Lord. You can’t be neutral. Try to be neutral if you want to. We’re just going to be neutral. We’re just gonna go. About our life. Yep. And then your daughter lines up in the track meet and there’s a boy racing her. What do you? Do. Do you sit there? Take the loss. Clap when the trophy is given to the biological male. What do you do? What do you do when you go to work? And and then they they they have this new policy at your work where you put your pronouns on everything. And you say no, no, I’m not gonna. Play the game. I’m just not gonna put the pronouns on there and they said no, no, no. It’s a policy. Put your pronouns on there. Fine. I’ll put my pronouns on there, but my pronouns are the pronouns that God gave me. Good for you, cause that’s just step one. You’ve put your pronouns, everybody else has put their pronouns, and then this is what happens. They come to you and they say. You must bear false witness. Look at that man. And call him a woman. Neutrality. Is not. An option. Go get your pH. D. Go be the best student ever, anywhere. Go try to write a grant proposal. Try to be a scientist, a biologist at chemistry. Anybody. Try try. Just, just, just try today to go and do that and sidestep all the mine. All of them. Let’s say your work must be based on the assumption. That there is no God, that the world was not created and that it’s billions and billions and billions. Of years old. Neutrality is not an option. Try as you might. And it always boggles my mind, right. You can have one person who says the world is 30 billion years old. Great. You get a prize. And another person who comes and says no, actually the world is more than 60 billion years old. No problem. You get a prize too. I come and I say the world is actually several 1000 years old and they say you’re an idiot. Why? Why the distance between the 60 billion year Guy and the 30 billion year Guy is 30 billion years. The distance between the 30 billion guy and me is less than 30 billion years. How come both of them get to be OK, but I don’t? Neutrality is not an option, folks. On our children and go to schools that pump this stuff into them. Neutrality is not an option in your family. Some of you have experienced this and your own family neutrality is not an option. All the recent stir about, you know, do you go to to, to, to the the gay wedding? Do you not go to the gay with all of this recent stuff? Why? Why are Christians wanting their pastors and leaders to help them think through this? I’ll tell you why. Because when the family or the extended family comes to you. And says Johnny’s marrying another man. They know that you’re a Christian. They’re just double dog daring you to say that there’s something wrong with it and you’re not going. Neutrality is not an option. It’s not. By the way, why is neutrality not an option? I’m glad you asked. Because these worldviews. Are rooted and grounded. And atheism? They’re rooted and grounded in the idea that there is no God, and because there is no God, we are accountable to no one, to nothing except ourselves. That’s why we use phrases like my truth.

[Sam]

Hmm.

[Voddie Baucham]

We’re accountable to no one. If there is a God. All of these worldviews fall. So you cannot go around. Proclaiming your worldview that is rooted and grounded in the existence of the one true and living God, the God who was and who is and who is to come without there being this clash. So neutrality is not an option. I’m sorry. If you thought you could get out of this unscathed, I’m here to tell you tonight. You cannot and you will not.

[MCG]

Well, they have it. Neutrality is not an option. We’ll end it right there, Mr. Sam. It was great of you joining us on this episode. Thank you so much for joining us on the Removing Barriers podcast.

[Sam]

MCG, Jay it was a pleasure. Thanks for having me.

[Jay]

Thank you so much for listening to the Removing Barriers podcast. Make sure to rate us everywhere you listen to podcasts, including Spotify, Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, or Stitcher. Removing barriers, a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

Thank you for listening. To get a hold of us to support this podcast or to learn more about removing barriers, go to removingbarriers.net. This has been the removing Barriers podcast we attempted to remove barriers so that we all can have a clear view of the cross.