Episode 164

The United States is in the midst of great political and social turmoil, and it seemed that the tragic case of Dexter Reed would be a sort of George Floyd 2.0. In the immediate aftermath of the showdown with police, It was revealed that five plain-clothes officers fired 96 rounds at Dexter Reed: another helpless black man gunned down by white cops. “They shot him 96 times for no reason!” was the battle cry, and the usual race-baiting social justice ‘leaders’ quickly slithered in to represent the family, shoving the grieving mother in front of rolling cameras to speak about her son. They got the drama they wanted when she collapsed mid-sentence in her grief, and so began the cries against fundamentally racist America and the drum-banging for social justice, egging on emotional bystanders who had yet to fully comprehend what had even actually happened in the first place. Who was Dexter Reed? What happened the day he was stopped by police officers? Why did they shoot so many times? In this episode of the Removing Barriers podcast, we will examine all the available facts of this case and peel back the political, social, and spiritual layers of the story. We will debunk the sensationalism and politicization of the encounter, getting down to the facts: the most important of which is that if nothing else, Dexter Reed was a soul for which Christ died.

[Jay]

I think a better question would be, were the remaining 4 rounds necessary? The argument can be made that when the last four rounds were shot, Dexter Reed was on the ground. He was no longer a threat, so even after he fell down from the gunshots, obviously one of the officers, I don’t know which one fired four more rounds and the argument was, were those 4 rounds necessary? Is that the police brutality that everyone is talking about?

Thank you for tuning in to the Removing Barriers podcast. I’m Jay and I’m MCG. And we’re attempting to remove barriers so we can all have a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

This is episode 164 of the Removing Barriers Podcast, and in this episode, we will be looking at the incident surrounding the death of Dexter Reed by the hands of the Chicago Police Department.

[Jay]

Hi, this is Jay. MCG and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to removingbarriers.net and subscribing to receive all things removing barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at removingbarriers.net/donate, removing barriers, a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

All right, Jay. Well, we have another one of these, a soul for which Christ died, similar to Tyree Nichols and the many others we have done before. Like even George Floyd, another black man killed, so to speak, by police officers. Let’s start by talking about who was Dexter Reed?

[Jay]

Dexter Reed was a 26 year old black man in Chicago who was killed by Chicago PD officers on March 21st of 2024 during a traffic stop. His family wants him to be remembered as a brave, outspoken, sweet and genuine young man. That’s according to his sister Portia Banks. She says that he played basketball in the local area. Led his team to regional finals in 2016. He was known to his family and friends as a gifted young man who was a standout athletes. He had aspirations to start his own clothing company and to be a sports broadcaster. None of us, I imagine, would have even known who Dexter Reed was, if it wasn’t for this particular incident. The reason why it’s garnered international, or I should say national attention is because this is another instance of a black man dying at the hands of mostly white police officers. I say mostly because there were. Anywhere from 5:00 to 6:00, police officers and one of them, if not two of them, were black and so, but the majority of them were white. And so this is garnering a lot of attention because this is a narrative that we’ve heard before, and the mainstream news. Yeah. And they’re seeking to make his death another rallying point. Another incident to rally around in terms of drumming up public sentiment against police in order to affect change, change from what they see as unnecessarily rough policing and black neighborhoods.

[MCG]

Yeah, it’s interesting. When I heard about this, I heard about it in terms of the circumstances surrounding his death, because apparently he was pulled over. In Chicago, everywhere he live, not in his community. I think he’s from Garfield Park. He was pulled over a few miles away from that, and apparently they said they stopped him because he was not wearing his seat, though, and one of the arguments that he’s been made that his vehicle was so heavily. Hinted that the police officers were not able to see seat belt, but anyway, I think the officers went up to him after he stop. I think there was a car in front of him, police car in front of him in a police car behind of him and they went up to him and he initially rolled down the window and the officer started asking some question. He started rolling up the window. They have, sister told him not to roll up the window. This is a female officer at this. Point. She pulled her gun because he was rolling up the window. And apparently it escalated from there because Texter Reid fired the first shot and then after that, of course, if you fire shots at police officers, they’re going to return fire and they returned fire. I think Dixie Reed was hit some 13 times and eventually died of his injuries in the course of action. Also, there was another police officer got shot in his hand that was a black police officer. I only know of 1 black officer that was there, but I could be wrong, but I know they were total of about five officers so. The stop escalated there because. With her, because Dexter read. Fire at the police officers first.

[Jay]

Yeah, there were several videos of this encounter, two of which were from the perspective of police officers via body Cam and two or three that were from the perspective of locals in the area that were recording what happened, the attorneys for the family. That subsequently have filed federal suits against the Police Department, I suppose because of his death, wrongful death, or something along those lines. The videos of this encounter were.

[MCG]

Or.

[Jay]

Either body Cam or from locals or from like doorbell cameras that recorded the entire incident. Now, most of these videos are shaky because their body Cam videos, but the one that was recorded via a front door doorbell camera was very steady and you could see it from the perspective if you were looking at Dexter Reed’s car from the rear. And to the right. Like so in this particular video, you could see Dexter Reed coming out of the driver’s side and then to the rear of the vehicle where he was ultimately shot and killed. Well, the attorney for the family made the claim that Dexter Reed may have initially shot at the police officer, but he ultimately came out of the car with his hands up and the police officer shot him dead. But you could see from the video of that. The camera that that is absolutely not the case after he shot the police officer in the hand and the police began returning fire. He actually tried to drive away twice. He moved forward initially and then kind of jolted to a halt and then he drove forward again, crashing into the parked vehicle in front of him. And then from there after this is while bullets are still flying, he came out of his car on the driver’s side, ran to the back of the vehicle. At no point where his hands up, it looked like he was trying to run away. He kind of peel. Himself or kind of attached himself to the back of the car, as though to protect himself from the incoming. Fire still hands are not up and he was ultimately shot and that’s where he went down. And even after he went down, there were maybe four shots that continued to fire. Now those last four shots, a lot of people are saying are completely unnecessary. But I’d like to point out that. Even though the family attorney got the narrative going that this was another instance of a black man shot and killed by police officers while his hands were up, video clearly shows that that was not the case. But this is an election. Here and the whole situation with George Floyd is still fresh in everyone’s mind, so I wonder if perhaps they were trying to get the narrative out before the videos came out so that people could already be preconditioned to believe that this was another instance of police brutality against the black man.

[MCG]

Well, I personally believe that they were trying to get narrative out. There of maybe even get this to be joyfully 2.0 or whatever the case may.

[Jay]

Be, which would certainly help the Democratic Party.

[MCG]

We are body backfired really bad because we have done several episodes talking about George Floyd. But regardless, what even think about George Floyd, George Floyd in the fire at the police officers, so you’re not gonna get a lot of sympathy from a lot of folks, George Floyd.

[Jay]

Right.

[MCG]

For most part got a lot of sympathies from both sides because it was a hard video to watch. Derek Chauvin was defiant, in my opinion, didn’t get off his back, even though several people were telling to get off, get off, get off, even though I don’t necessarily think that the Chauvin is the one who killed George Floyd. I think golfer died. From a jug overdose my opinion. But Dexter Reed fired at officers. No, I guess the question begs was this racially motivated as you were getting into? I don’t. I personally believe that I don’t know who got the narrative out there that the police officers pulled him over because of a seat belt violation. Sure, you can be pulled over for a seat belt violation. I remember talking to a police officer and he said if I jive behind anyone long enough. I can find a traffic violation to pull them over for. So I personally believe that the seat belt was not the reason. What do you think was I think this was their pretextual stop as they call it and and they use the seat belt as the excuse to stop it. So pectoral stop is basically a police officer want to do some kind of investigation in you want to.

[Jay]

What does that mean?

[MCG]

Check something. Out and they use a traffic violation, however minor, to pull you over to make contact with you. That’s basically what it was. I personally believe that what it was because from the video his windows are so heavily tinted that even the police officer that was standing at the door when he was rolling his windows up, the reason why she was selling. They went down, down, down so much and so adamant about it, and pull their firearm. That’s because she couldn’t see inside of the vehicle. MMM. Now maybe they could have observed he wasn’t wearing his seat belt through the windscreen properly because the windscreen probably was not as heavily tinted as the rest of. The vehicle, but I don’t think that the seat belt was the issue. I think the issue was that they wanted to investigate this young man for something else and they used the seat belt as the reason to pull him over. About a year ago, I went on a police ride along and the police officer. That was with and another police officer. We did one of these very same stop what they called pretextual stop we actually. Get in his car at one of the entrance to the apartment complex. Another police officer site at the another entrance of the apartment complex. Entrance. Exit whatever you want to call it. And we were just waiting there for this person to leave. And the only reason they was waiting for him to leave was to pull him over because they had another reason that they want to. Pulling over for so it’s not the traffic violation that they were necessarily interested in. They wanted to pull over this person so they can make contact because they were investigating another crime. I believe this was the same thing with this young man. It wasn’t that he was wearing the seat at all. Let me pull this guy over. And no, I think he was a pretextual stop. And they had other reasons that they not necessarily revealing to us why they pull him over.

[Jay]

I wonder if it had anything to do with the fact that at the time of the traffic stop and the subsequent shooting. Was already released during like this pretrial thing for previous weapons charge, he was not supposed to have a weapon because of a charge. Before that one. I think it was either robbery or aggravated assault or something like that, and he was caught with a weapon with a loaded weapon that he wasn’t supposed to have. And he was about to go to trial for that particular thing. So I wonder if that was any reason why they pulled him over.

[MCG]

Yeah, I doubt that because it’s not like he missed his court date or didn’t show up or something. They probably just wanted to ID him and for most people, if you’re just walking down the street and you’re not breaking any law. In most states, if not all, the police officer can just walk up to you and active for your identification. But if you’re driving a vehicle, you have to ID for most part. So maybe they just wanted ID and they were in a high crime area and they were probably just looking and checking and make sure everything is squared away. I don’t know. I guess it will come out exactly why they pulled this young man over. Maybe he they through the lawsuit or through when all the investigations are over into this incident. But I’ll be hard for us to believe they pull. Over because of a seat belt because he had five. Undercovered police officers, nothing any marked vehicles, and they weren’t in police uniform. They in regular clothes.

[Jay]

They wear regular clothes, but they did have ballistic wear with the huge words police on it. So I mean, they might not have been in uniform, but they were clearly identifiable as police.

[MCG]

Yeah, but they were clearly not irregular police officer that you will see in this squad, CarMax, squad car and everything. So obviously they were.

[Jay]

Right, they weren’t.

[MCG]

Investigated or maybe because they were in a high crime area. Whatever the case may be.

[Jay]

That was the thing. Initially, when I heard that they were plain clothed police officers, I wondered, well, you know, what would I do if five random people drew guns on me and demanded that I get out of the car? My reaction may very well be the same, but when you look at the video, all of them were either wearing ball caps with the word police or they were wearing protective ballistic. Here, with the word police on it. So I don’t think it would be possible to not to identify them properly as. Police. So I wonder if that’s a part of the narrative thing that family attorneys wanted to get out before the video evidence came out. So yeah, I don’t know. Do you think that pretextual police or traffic stops should be done away with, or do you think that this is something that’s necessary and high crime areas in order to catch people? That are doing the wrong.

[MCG]

Thing you know. I don’t think I’m even on defense for this one, but I hate to say yes. Let’s continue with all these pretextual stops and give police all this power. But I do understand that these are necessary because if we don’t have these pretextual stop, you’re going to make criminal investigation very difficult for police officers. And I think there’s going to be a lot of people that going to be left on the street that we don’t want on the street. But as to quote Peter Parker, he said with great power comes great responsibility and I think. Protectors that maybe be giving police a lot of power, but I also think that we can balance it with a lot of responsibility. I don’t think we should just say, hey, let’s get rid of pretextual stops. I can see, especially in the black community, where they may say, hey, you know what, I don’t trust police officers. Police officers pull me over for no reason, blah, blah, blah police officer out to get me. Let’s get away with stop and frisk. Let’s get a rectal. Cops, but one that’s an issue for our elected officials. They can change the laws. They still don’t want police to be pulling you over for minor issues like a seat belt like a tail light is out like a swerve in the street because these are the minor issues that a police officer pull you over for a paycheck or stop. They did this to that guy that was charged. With killing the four college student in, I remember his name. He stabbed him to death way back in the college dorm. Yeah.

[Jay]

Yeah.

[MCG]

I remember when I was listening to the news, when they had initially suspect that he’s the one who did it. They actually, yeah, they actually raised you to a Highway Patrol officer and asked him to pull him over so he can observe him.

[Jay]

Brian coburger. Right.

[MCG]

They didn’t arrest and they didn’t give him any tickets. They just want to pull him over so they can observe him.

[Jay]

So this guy, Brian Koberger, the Idaho student murders, he murdered four of the.

[MCG]

Both charge he ever been convicted.

[Jay]

OK, got it. Alleged then and it was a pretextual stop in which that’s how they caught us.

[MCG]

Well, when he was going. Home from Idaho. I think it was to Pennsylvania across the country. Dr. He and his dad. From what I understood, is that they actually act a Highway Patrol to actually pull him over so they can observe. And they wanted to see, how does his handle? And then he cut on his hand or the case may be.

[Jay]

Ohh, I see what you’re saying. So they could ask each other to do these things in order to just gather more information bit by bit so that when they arrest them, there’s probable cause or they have a reason to, OK.

[MCG]

So So what I’m saying is. Right. Right. And if you’re driving a vehicle? So. There’s a lot of reason why police have to control over. You can be going one mile above the speed limit. They can pull you over because you’re speeding.

[Jay]

Right.

[MCG]

Or if you’re on a highway, you’re in the slow lane and you’re going to slow. You don’t have a seat belt on, you swerve. You’re looking at your phone. There are many minor things that they can pull you over for, and that’s exactly what the pretextual stuff is. They pull you over for minor stuff so they can investigate you in a greater stuff. That’s how they find a lot of jobs. That’s how they find people that have runners. A lot of. Criminal arrest and stuff like that are made because of, quote UN quote, A pretextual stop. So should they get rid of it? I would say no. But I do understand that this has a lot of power and I think that it should be balanced. A lot of responsibility. And again, if we want it change marching and protesting, the police officers is not the way to do it. Go to your elected official. And say, hey, the law needs to change, you know, no longer pull me over for a blown tail light or a seat belt stuff.

[Jay]

In the aftermath of the 2020 riots, the so-called summer of love, the George Floyd riots, and the defund the police. Movement. You’ve had a lot of good police officers that have left the force and the argument can be made that the not so great ones are left behind. I’m sure that’s not a blanket statement, but in some. But particularly in urban areas, that might very well be the case. There are few ones left behind, but the ones that are more likely to abuse their power more likely to have a more unconstitutional approach to policing. You know, with that in mind, keeping Pretextual stops. As a thing might increase tensions, increase incidents like this, particularly in high crime areas where the relationship with police are already strained.

[MCG]

You know. I would agree with you if there were more evidence for that because we have Dexter read various strong evidence that he fired on the. Police officer first.

[Jay]

Right.

[MCG]

We have George Floyd, who was resisting arrest and saying he can’t breathe long before they put him on the ground and put some weight on him. We have go through the list. We. Have Freddie Gray evidence show that he was throwing himself around in the back of the van and the list go on and on. Michael Brown was fighting with the officers. If it was people that you know, they get pulled over and police off, they’re walking up to them, execution style. And these people were. It’s so clear that the police officer. Is wrong because a lot of times the police officers are not wrong. The police officers are defending myself. There’s a few that I can think about and say, you know what? Yeah. Like philanthro casteel. Hmm. I think the police officer was wrong in that state, even though he got away, the police officer wasn’t convicted. I think the police officer was wrong. Because the guy told you he has a concealed carry permit, you’re asking for his license and he was reaching for his license and he shot him because you’re scared. I think that’s wrong. I think Eric Gardner, even though he was resistant, the fact is none of them let go. The police after that was choking him, did not let go after he said he can’t breathe several. Times. So there’s some that I look at and say, yeah, I don’t think the police was right in this situation, but I’ll be honest, majority of them, the police officer didn’t do anything wrong.

[Jay]

Well, in this particular case, the argument is that they didn’t do anything wrong, but that it was just too much. They were not wrong to open fire on Dexter read the argument goes. But do you really need to have 96 round? Ends in 41 seconds.

[MCG]

Well.

[Jay]

If I may say before you answer to me, that’s a question that people who are not familiar with guns or gun fighting ask, but go ahead.

[MCG]

Yeah, I would agree with that. I cannot definitively say that 96 rounds were necessary, but I can go so many direction with this. You know, they want to limit magazine capacity for us. If someone breaking into my house, if I fire 100 rounds to stop him, I don’t care, right. The goal is to stop him.

[Jay]

So yes, they hit 13 times. You said it early in the podcast, 13 out of 96 is not a very. Was.

[MCG]

Right. So. Good, right? I’m gonna get to that. But here’s the thing, right. There were five police officers, and I can tell from the ugly form factor of the gun they had in their hand. They most likely had Glocks. I think Glocks are ugly, right? I’m assuming that they had 17 round magazines and they had won in the Chamber, so initially they had 18 rounds to fire at. Dexter Reed.

[Jay]

And 18 * 4.

[MCG]

18 * 472 So I’m eliminating one of the officers. He got shot in the side and I don’t think he fired, so I’m gonna leave him out of this for now. So 96 -? 72 is 24 when I.

[Jay]

Uh-huh.

[MCG]

Was. Watching their body Cam videos, I see at least two reloads. I don’t know if all of them reload, but I see at least two reloads 17 and 17. With what?

[Jay]

30. 4.

[MCG]

Right. So if two of the officers empty Day magazine twice and all of the empty day magazines.

[Jay]

90 sixes makes. Sense.

[MCG]

That’s an easy night. Just six round. And all of them have reason to fire on Dexter because he was firing on them. He himself fired eleven shots. So in defense of themself or in defense of their fellow officer, they all had reason to fire on him. So I can see the 96 rounds and if we add in the Fifth officer, let’s say he fired some rounds or he empty his magazine. You have 18 * 5. That’s 90. Yeah. So we can easily see how they get 96 rounds and plus, let’s say they had 20 rounds magazine and and one in the chamber, 21 rounds. That’s 84 rounds before they had to reload. And I’ve never been a defensive situation that where I have to use a gun. Hope I never. To be, but I can see how they can empty that magazine in no time. I would be surprised if they can’t empty it in on the 10 seconds. So 41 second.

[Jay]

Because you shoot to stop the threat and they didn’t stop shooting until he was down. Although the argument can say four shots were.

[MCG]

Exactly.

[Jay]

But while he was in that vehicle, they could not see what he was doing. All they know is that there’s someone in there shooting at them. Even now, as of the recording of this podcast, neither Copa nor the Chicago PD Copa, by the way, is the civilian Office of Police Accountability. I would imagine that this is an organization that reviews video and make sure that officers are held accountable for the rounds that they expend and for their treatment of civilians. But. As of the recording of this podcast, none of them were able to determine exactly how many rounds that he fired. All they know and all the officers knew in the heat. The moment is that one of our guys is hit. This guy is shooting at us. We have to stop the threat.

[MCG]

I heard it was 11 in shot 11 times and the magazine was empty.

[Jay]

Well, I mean, what do you want the officers to do? But you see if you say, Oh my goodness, five officers ganged up on one guy and they fired almost 100 rounds and 41 seconds. You could see how that sounds quite sensational in the headlines and what they don’t realize. Is is that it takes no time at all to Mag dump. It takes no time at all to empty a magazine, particularly when you’re shooting to stop the threat. And he was still alive and perhaps still shooting while he was in the vehicle, but this is another instance where I think you’re right in CG, where the attorney for the family wanted to get ahead and get something. Out over the media waves and get ahead and establish A narrative to make it sound like the response of these officers was wildly unnecessary and just rude and just over the top, when in reality it’s completely reasonable.

[MCG]

Yeah.

[Jay]

I can’t imagine a scenario where you are surrounded by people. Five people with guns and you have your one gun and you think that this is going to. Turn out well for you.

[MCG]

Well, I’ll give the police officers this. They’re lovely shots anyway.

[Jay]

Lousy shots. I just did the math. 13 out of 96 rounds is 13% accuracy. 13.5. OK, we’re being generous. 13.5% accuracy.

[MCG]

It’s like if. 13.55 percent 13.5 hit rate. One of the bullet can display it and hit him and have them hidden but.

[Jay]

That is quite terrible, but again.

[MCG]

Though I’ve never been in a different situation but adjoining running and all these things you can understand why they miss. There’s people like me out there who stand at the queer range with the target 7 yards away not firing back at you. Your commas, cucumber and you can’t hit it for the life in you, much less do.

[Jay]

Yeah.

[MCG]

Trying to hit a target that is firing back at you and moving. Would one of your colleagues already get hit? I can understand the hit rate is at 13%. I can’t say I can do better if I’m in a situation like that. For me. I just hope that the noise that the firm would make will be scary enough to run off the bad guy. But I’m not simply saying most people will not be able to do better anyway, unless you’re like a training junkie. And one of these people that are without the range and and really know how to be calm under pressure, especially when bullets are firing back at you. Yeah. You know, one thing Bruce Lee said, you know, one of these Bruce movies I saw where the bad guy was beating up on one of these training stick. And Bruce said to him, sticks don’t hit back.

[Jay]

Bricks don’t hit back, yeah.

[MCG]

And whatever case may be, you know these queer targets we have at the range, they don’t fire back. So I can understand the 13%.

[Jay]

Yeah, it’s a whole different dynamic for sure.

[MCG]

You know, I can understand the Mack dump even though I think with more training they probably can get that out of their system and fire under more control even while being fired upon. Yeah. But at the end of the day, as you said, you shoot until you neutralize the chair. So they’re complaining that he left the car. He came out and he went to the back of the car. They still. Or anything. Well, they don’t know what he’s doing. Maybe he’s trying to find a. At the angle so you can fire them better. They don’t know that he doesn’t have another gun at him. You’re fired still.

[Jay]

And he gave them no indication of compliance. None at all. His hands were not up. He did not get down on his knees or whatever people do to show that they are compliant. None of that. He was running away and he was protecting himself against the back of the vehicle. I’m not trying to sound harsh or anything along those lines because this is a soul for whom Christ died. And this is a human being whose life was cut short. However, I don’t think you can fault the officers for their reaction to this man.

[MCG]

No, I wouldn’t fault them at all, because again, you’re shooting to literally. Allies. And again, if you listen to gun experts, usually in a defensive situation, you don’t even know how much bullets you fire. I remember seeing a guy came into Major PCs robbing the place, and the clerk opened fire on him and basically emptying his magazine on him in on the 10 seconds. I’m sure if you asked him at that point how many did I fire?

[Jay]

Yeah.

[MCG]

He was so well, my gun had 18, so I emptied it, or whatever the case may be. Most of the time he does not like you’re sitting there counting. So most of the time you don’t know. So the question, you know, was the 96 rounds necessary?

[Jay]

You’re not counting, no.

[MCG]

You know, I wasn’t there, but it seems like for the officers it was to neutralize the threat, even though, you know, I can poke fun at them and say. You’re lovely. Shot and and the The thing is that that even bother me about this a little bit is that these gun control people, they want to give police officers their guns. Uh-huh. They take it away from civilians.

[Jay]

Yeah, they are lousy shot. Yeah.

[MCG]

When most police officers are know better at shooting than the average civilian.

[Jay]

OK, so my answer to this particular question were were the 96 runs necessary? I think a better question would be were the remaining 4 rounds necessary? The argument can be made that when the last four rounds were shot, Dexter Reed was on the ground. He was no longer a threat, so even after he fell down from the gunshots, obviously one of the officers, I don’t know which one fired four more rounds and the argument was were those 4 rounds. Necessary is that the police brutality that everyone is talking about that was completely unnecessary. That perhaps there can be a discussion or an argument there. I remember seeing a particular video. Of some young kid who tried to rob, I think it’s pronounced A taqueria. It’s a shop that sells tacos with a fake gun, and one of the customers shot him to stop the robbery. He essentially emptied. He did a mag dump, emptied the gun, but even from the first round that he shot, the guy was down. And so the argument was, you know, I know that he shouldn’t have. This is his mother speaking. I think I know that he shouldn’t have robbed that place. But did you really need to shoot him those other 17 or however many other rounds it was. Did you really need to shoot him? All of those extra times? And there have been instances where civilians and defensive. Situations were held accountable and were found guilty for using excessive force because of extra rounds that were fired even after the threat was neutralized. So I suppose we could reword the question and say were the remaining 4 rounds necessary? That might be a point of discussion. I don’t know if police officers will stand the same scrutiny as a civilian in a defensive situation, but that is a question that should. That many people would like to see addressed.

[MCG]

Well, firstly, the same law that protects my regular civilian protects police officer they fired at him because they were firing him self-defense. They had the same right just like I would have the same right to fired him if he had fired at me. So the law is not a different set of law. The only thing is that we have given police officers. Special rights or we expect something more from them because my aim in a defensive situation is to break contact. I don’t want to have contact with this person anymore. I want to get as far away from the person as possible. That means if I have to use my firearm to neutralize him so I can get away. Or by me using my firearm, he run off contact is bro. OK. Police officers were asking them to go and chase that threat so they can’t run away and say well, he has a gun. He’s trying to rob me. I’m not gonna go out there. I can make that decision, but they can’t. So we give them some special rights to say, hey, you go out there, you go on, apply violence on my behalf. So that I don’t have to do it. So with that consideration, there’s going to be some special consideration in court. For instance, if I’m tracing off of the bad guy and shooting him, that’s different than if the police officer is chasing after him shooting him because he has a gun. He is a threat to the police officer. Police officer has the right to arrest him. But that’s different. You mentioned the situation that happened in Houston, TX. Well, in this situation like that is going to be not only state specific, but actually jurisdiction Pacific in terms of how they going to handle it, what kind of data do we have. So this happened in. If it was a civilian and they deemed the last four rounds was not necessary, they probably would have tried him, but I think he would have gotten off because at the end of the day your brain has to send a signal to your finger and tell your finger to stop and that depends on what you see the person doing and whether or not that reasonable person. Would have perceived the person that’s still being a threat? No, we have hindsight and we have a video to see that the person is down and they still get a shot. But how long after was it? 10 seconds. Was it 20 seconds? Was it the minute after or was it like within one, two seconds or whatever the case may be? All that will have to come out in court and figure out if the last four with necessary. If you ask me. I think that the police officers were firing and they probably in the panic of time they didn’t realize he. Was down. Mm-hmm. And he can’t fault them for that because, again, Dexter fired upon them. It was a defensive situation. You’re listening to the removing barrels podcast. We’re talking about Dexter. Read a soul for which Christ died. We’ll be right back.

[Jay]

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[MCG]

Alright, Jay, so we talk a lot about the police officers and their actions and Dexter Reed action and stuff like. That. But the question begs as we continue. Who should be blamed for his death? Dexter Reed, the city of Chicago, the Chicago Police Department.

[Jay]

Dexter Reed is 100% responsible for his. Death. I know that sounds harsh because he is dead and the intent is not to speak. I’ll of the dead or to wag fingers, or to have a sort of nonchalant. I told you so. Or another one bites the dust attitude. That’s not the aim here. But if you decide that you’re going to. Engage with officers. You have to know and understand that they are authorized to defend themselves. If you shoot at them, you’re essentially. Forfeiting your life, they will not shoot to hurt you. They will shoot to kill. I can’t understand now. I can understand fear. I can understand the fight or. Flight. Or response, but I can’t imagine a scenario in which you think that it’s going to turn out well for you to initiate a gunfight. With five armed police officers, he’s responsible for his death. He’s responsible for the charge. Is that of course we say that that we don’t know how much they knew about his particular situation, responsible for those decisions in his life. And I am sad that he chose the way that he did. But he did choose the way that he did and it ended up in the loss of his life. I cannot fault the Chicago Police Department. With this, even though the locals feel like they have a very strained relationship with the police. I don’t think that the the the police officers acted with any sort of extravagant brutality or anything beyond the pale.

[MCG]

Yeah. One thing I would say, I don’t think police officers necessarily shoot the kill. I think they shoot to stop it, right? Just like everyone else should. If you’re in a different situation, you know, shoot the kill. You should just stop the threat. And if that means that the person dies, you know, unfortunately, that’s not the goal of. Shooting at the person right, but who to blame? I agree with you. Even if the stop was unwarranted or on call for even if you say, hey, I totally disagree with pretextual stuff, I think they should be outlawed. Police officers should never be able to do this. Even if you say that you come down to one simple thing, you just don’t. Shoot at police officers, right? You don’t fight your battles with police officers on the side of the street. You fight it in the Court of Law.

[Jay]

On the side of the road? Nope.

[MCG]

It’s better to comply than and then fight it later. This is something that annoys me with a lot of these things. Then you have these lawyers come out and all these things come out. I don’t know if they’re fun out there that say black folks, we know you have grievance with police officers comply with them. And we will pay your lawyer so you can sue these police departments and sue these governments for the wrong that they’re doing to work. For you. But don’t fight it on the street. We have all these lawyers and all these people with letters after their name always coming after the incident happened and say they going to sue and all this stuff is there educational program out there. Is there something out there that say hey, we can win this in the Court of law by suing them? I personally I’m from the Caribbean. I have a healthy trust of the police officers. I don’t see police officers and get scared, nor think that they’re out to get me or anything. And I’m a black man. I get it. I don’t understand the African American culture when it comes to police officers. I will admit that. For some reason I think it’s real. I understand the history and all that stuff, but I don’t understand how you just see someone because the police officer, they ought to get you. I remember riding with this young lady coming from work and she literally was pointing out every police car, every police officer on the highway, and I didn’t even notice them like. Police money, their business and money, my business. But I guess there’s something out there and I don’t fully understand it. However, there has to be some kind of education program that say, hey, comply. I there’s a team of lawyers out here that will sue these departments on your behalf. You get some money, we get some money, we move on. But resisting, pulling guns and all these things, it’s not the solution.

[Jay]

There’s money to be made in activism, and so there’s so much more money to be made. If you can make a victim out of the suspect and you could garner public support, you could crucify the police in the in the Court of public opinion. And you can create a lot of money for. Yourself by doing it that particular way. There’s not much money and honest and genuine activism that seeks to educate the public on how to behave during a police stop. There’s not much money to be made there, so obviously the incentive there is to keep this behavior going. Keep the black community in perpetual fear of police officers. So that when they are stopped, their reactions are completely irrational and it will more than likely end up in their death, or perhaps in they’re being shot. So there are, in my opinion, nefarious and malicious people behind the scenes manipulating both sides of the equation for their own benefit.

[MCG]

You know, I see what you’re saying, but it’s so hard to believe people like Benjamin Crump and all these things are just. Well, you know, I think the most like in there for money, the Al Sharpton and all this thing most likely in the. For money. But I would imagine that after some time, how old is I’ll Sharpton? After some time you don’t say. Hey, you know what? These things have happened to you because you resist because you pull a gun because you do XY and Z. I’m not saying that they’re not some innocent ones out there. I’m not saying that they’re not some bad police officers. Out there, I’m just simply say. Seeing it seems like it’s always in a situation where it’s questionable people pulling guns and people are doing this. People are using counterfeit money that they’re forcing the police to have contact with you, you know, but to your point, Booker T Washington did said there’s another class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles. The wrongs and the hardships of the ***** race before the public, having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the second habit of advertising. The wrongs partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays some of these people do not want the ***** to lose his grievances because they do not want to lose their jobs. Booty Washington.

[Jay]

Umm. Even if? Yeah, even in his day it was him versus WB Dubois and WEB Dubois would be, in today’s parlance, the progressive Black Lives. That are type of activist that we would think of today, whereas Booker T Washington would be like the Candace Owens or the Larry Elder type Black Conservative in that particular sense. So it was an issue even in his day.

[MCG]

Yeah, but what do they say Dexter Reed represent to the culture or the current political? Climate. Ohh, he.

[Jay]

Had the potential to become another George Floyd. If it weren’t for the fact that he opened fire on the police officer first, this would have been the perfect George Floyd 2.0 situation to rile up the country again because. George Floyd had, after Black Lives Matter, was exposed to be a race hustling fraud of a movement. Everyone. We’re. I don’t want to say everyone, but for many people they were over the whole Black Lives Matter, black activist sort of narrative because it was proven over and over and over again to be false. They said that Kyle Rittenhouse actually went out to Kenosha and hunted down and shot black people. That turned out not to be the case. It turned out to be self. Defense, they said Michael Brown was shot and killed innocently and he had nothing to do, and it turned out that wasn’t the case either. He was actually fighting with the police officer, tried to take his gun. Freddie Gray hands up. Don’t shoot. I mean, there’s just one after the other after the other. It’s lie after lie after lie after lie. These people did themselves a disservice because now if there were legitimate cases of police brutality. Or of racism or of profiling. No one would take it serious. Really, no one would take it seriously because it’s a boy, cried wolf situation. And so Dexter Reed, for some people who have completely bought into this ideology, completely buy into the lie he represents, yet just another black man that’s under the boot of another white police officer. And the racism continues in this country. This country is so systemically racist and we have to fight back and we have to perpetuate this cycle that continues over and over and over every day, every time it’s on the news cycle. You rile up people to create a deeper racial divide. And that’s unfortunately what Dexter Reed represents. We can’t even focus on who he was as a person because he becomes this symbol, this icon for a lie that serves not to bring people together and not to improve relations between these inner city neighborhoods and their police force, but to further divide. To cry. Create difficulties between the two groups and that doesn’t help anyone. That only means that more and more black people are going to die at the hands of police because of these unnecessary interactions. These unnecessary reactions that they have to police that could just be solved by compliance. I think in the black community there is this sense. Of. For lack of a better expression, this I ain’t no punk type of attitude where you have to defend yourself and you have to stand for your honor in a situation like this, or you’re a nobody. And so even if it’s a police officer who’s giving you lawful commands, if you comply, then somehow you’re a punk, you’re a nobody. You’re this. You’re or that you can’t let that be said about you. So you have to fight back. Either fight back or you die trying and it’s getting a lot, a lot of black men killed. And I think that we’ve seen repeated instances of this for decades now, and I think that these so-called black leaders, these lawyers, these activists, if they really cared about black people, they would go to the root of the issue, help black people understand how to behave during traffic stops, help black people. Understand. Say, how to survive. Let’s say a traffic stop live to fight another day. As you mentioned before. But that is a monumental task because this trope, this idea of white officers. Going after police officers is even ingrained in black media. I was watching or I saw a clip of a Madea show just the other day. I think it was a couple of days ago and the Tyler Perry character was stopped by police and he’s an upstanding black man and madeas in the passenger seat. And she obviously has this comedic. Sort of relationship with the police and she’s making fun of him for complying with the police and. That’s in our entertainment. She’s encouraging him to either drive away or to not comply. High and this is now ingrained in our media, I say our, but I don’t mean that as the weird part of the black community in the sense that we believe this stuff. But a majority of the people in the black community do believe it. It’s in their media. It’s what they see on TikTok all day because the algorithm is force feeding it to them. And then when they turn on to mainstream legacy. Media, CNN, CBC or NBC, all of these different media outlets, they see the same narrative over and over again, and they believe it’s true. And so they behave as though it’s. True and souls are being lost because of it. How do we reach the people? How do we help them understand that they’re being lied to, manipulated, used for nefarious purposes by all of these activists and lawyers? Fill in the blank.

[MCG]

Yeah, I’ll get to that. But I want to just add this because I remember, you know, they have been pushing that police officers way by the crimes. They be accountable. But you know what? By the cameras have proven is that police officers are not that often in the wrong. I’m not saying again. If you watch audit the audit on YouTube or some of these other police First Amendment people. Sure police officers are in the wrong at times.

[Jay]

Yeah. Yeah.

[MCG]

Yeah. And there are some bad police officers out there. But for the body Cam videos, these police officers probably would get the same treatment as Derek Chauvin and the other police officers because they would have made a claim 96 rounds in 41 seconds was not warranted.

[Jay]

Yeah.

[MCG]

But no body cameras. We are going to take you to the cleaners because if election year the body Cam video is what save these police officers and many, many times. Is the Vatican videos are actually save police officers the same tool that was supposed to bring them down is most likely helping them because here.

[Jay]

Yeah.

[MCG]

We can clearly see Dexter Fire first all these things. So what does he represent? The current political climate? Yeah. I think body Cam videos is what prevented from becoming next George Floyd. But what can be done to reach people like Dexter Reed? You know, the biggest problem? One of the biggest problem in the black community is the lack of nuclear families. Larry Elder talk about it had a presidential campaign on it about the lack of fathers in the home until the black community go back to the day when they realized that the importance of a mother and a father in their home ideas. That we still gonna have these issues because I think before the 60s what it was 7075% of black families were nuclear families were father and mother. And then we have welfare state coming into the in 16 on the LBJ and as Larry Elder put it that they encouraged the black woman to divorce their husband and married. Faith, because why in the world would you give a woman more money because there’s no man in the home? So a lot of them divorce their husband to get the more money even though they want to keep the man in the home. And then the man has no commitments and no responsibility. Now it’s what, 25% or something like that. It’s a crying shame. And besides, Larry. Elder and some voices out there. Most people in the black community not talking about the crisis of their lack of nuclear family. But it’s not like the Democrats will see it because Obama saw it when he was president, at least presidential candidate Barack Obama saw it here. He’s he talking about it.

[Barack Obama]

That of all the rocks upon which we build our lives. We are most dependent. On the family. The family is that most important foundation. And we are called to recognize and honor how critical every father is to that foundation. They are teachers and coaches, their mentors and their role models. They are examples of success and the men who constantly push us towards success. But if we’re honest with ourselves, we’ll admit that too many fathers are also missing. You and I know this is true everywhere, but nowhere is it more true than in the African American community. We know that more than half of all black children live in single parent households half. A number that’s doubled. Since we were children. We know the statistics that children who grew up without a father are five times more likely to live in poverty and commit crime. They’re nine times more likely to drop out of school, 20 times more likely to end up in prison. We should be meeting them halfway. We should be making it easier for fathers who make responsible choices. And harder for those who avoid them. We should get rid of the financial penalties we impose on married couples right now and start making sure every dime of child support goes directly to helping children instead of bureaucrats.

[MCG]

Well, they have it. The components of the nuclear family. So how do we prevent this thing? Hey, by encouraging persuading the black community to go back to the nuclear family. Second reason. Stronger respect for authority and the rule of law. You know, if Dexter Reed had a strong respect for authority and a strong respect for the rule of law, he probably would not have pulled a gun and the police officers, he probably would not have gotten in trouble in the 1st place. I don’t know anything about his home life, but from the videos of the family that I’ve seen, I’ve only seen his mother and his sisters. I don’t see any father. Hmm. I’m gonna assume that he was not in the nuclear. Family. So how can we prevent it? Stronger nuclear families, stronger respect for law and authority, comply. They have value and compliance, especially when it comes to police officers. Again, compliance suit, you know, but there need to be some sort of respect. I’m not saying authority is always right. I’m simply saying there should be some strong respect for authority. The epitome of disrespecting police officers is shooting. Yeah. And then thirdly, I will say of course a stronger present of the transforming power of the gospel being preached in the black communities, and that’s on the church. That’s on us because a lot of times. And Jay, you have spoken to this several times. If you look in the black communities. Downtown Chicago and downtown Baltimore and wherever it is, a strong black community. Usually there’s no solid church. And. Usually there’s no Christian witness one last time here. Missionaries say I’m being called to go to the inner city of Chicago and preach a gospel. Or the inner city of Baltimore. I’m the same. I guess we have dropped the ball on that. We spent but a stronger President of transforming power of the gospel, because if they had to change if. Their lives are changed to the transforming power of the gospel. You know what? You will start getting stronger nuclear families and start getting stronger respect for authority and the rule of law. So this might be the failure of the church, unfortunately, or the failure of Christians or not reaching the culture enough with the gospel. But that’s a whole bigger topic of itself so.

[Jay]

Yeah, I certainly would agree. I think that in many ways, this solution is beyond. Political repair it’s beyond anything, any law or any type of activism, that can impose any type. Of rule or law or standard by which people behave. The problem is in the home. I just watched a video of a ballerina teacher who was near tears crying that she’s lost all of her love of teaching ballerina. Or ballet. And her five year old class, because these five year olds are back talking no respect for authority, she will call parents and parents will say, well, what do you want me to do about it? Aren’t you supposed to be able to handle the child? And so there’s clearly a destruction of values, of respect, of honor in. American homes. And I know that we’re talking about black homes, but the problem is the same no matter what color or stripe you are. And so these children are growing up without authority, without correction, without the Council of the Word of God. And they are loose cannons. They are radioactive. They are a cancer. In society, I don’t mean that in a mean way. I mean in the sense that their disdain for authority. Pretty poisons and negatively affects everyone around them, and so they go on through life unchallenged, unwashed by the water of the word and they become belligerent, non compliant adults that end up getting themselves killed or other people killed. And there is no one to blame but the person themselves and the homes that they come from. I had a conversation with someone once about why there aren’t Christians living in the inner city. It seems like that’s where we’re most needed, and I understand there’s not a, you know, if you have a family you really want to protect them, and you really want to keep them away from danger. But the Christian witness isn’t there. The so-called pastors that they have, and I’m Speaking of all of them, of course, are wolves and sheep clothing who give pithy and empty answers for life. And most of them you could find on social media are actually promoting and platforming far left, and progressive ideologies in their churches, in their pulpits. And there is very little, if any, Christian testimony there to break up the vice grip of the hold that the enemy has. On the people on the families, on the city, on the government, in those cities and people are dying as a result. But I am hopeful. Because we know the truth, we have the gospel, the Gospel of Jesus Christ is a light shining in the pitch blackness that will light. It lights every man that comes into the world. The Bible says there is hope for them. If we will only reach out to them and witness to them. And tell them about the love of Jesus. Tell them about the one who genuinely suffered after doing no wrong. Wrong and yet send not he pleased the father and it pleased the father to crush him so that our sins could be forgiven. Their sins could be forgiven. Perhaps he felt like there’s nothing he could do because he was already facing a weapons charge and he had to take his situation into his own hands when Christ. Has already provided a way for that to be dealt with. I don’t know him personally. I don’t know what his salvation status was, but it doesn’t seem like he. Knew. That it doesn’t seem like he knew that. And as far as we can tell, of course, again, we don’t know. He died without the savior, went into eternity without the Savior. That should really move the believer. That should really move us to look at these people that are dying, that are being used as iconic pawns in. A political game in the country. Maybe we should see them as souls for whom Christ died because he did, and he left us here as salt and light in order to reach them. I pray that we would.

[MCG]

Yeah.

[Jay]

Hey, thanks so much for listening to the Removing Barriers podcast. Did you know that you could find us on Twitter, Gab Parlor, Facebook and Reddit, go to removingbarriers.net/contact and like and follow us on social media, removing barriers, a clear view of the cross?

[MCG]

Thank you for listening. To get a hold of us to support this podcast or to learn more about removing barriers. Go to: removingbarriers.net. This has been the removing barriers podcast. We attempted to remove barriers so that we all can have a clear view of the cross.