Episode 161

Many Christians the world over struggle with this question: can a Christian lose their salvation? Once a Christian has been saved, can their salvation ever be lost? In this episode of the Removing Barriers podcast, we sit down with Edward Thal of Thal Tales (see information section for more info) and hash out the Bible verses often used to argue for a conditional salvation, and even some verses that have nothing to do with salvation at all. The good news is that while this subject is a source of anxiety for many, the Bible has a very clear answer. Join us as Bro. Thal lays out the answer clearly and thoroughly.

[Bro. Thal]

If you want to further fantastic picture, I mean just gorgeous picture is the wilderness wanderings of Israel are replete with stories again and again and again of how God’s people fail. They complain constantly, they whine, they moan at their first opportunity to sin. They have a wild party. Create an idol for themselves and just behave in the most reprehensible way.

[Jay]

Thank you for tuning in to the Removing Barriers podcast. I’m Jay and I’m MCG. And we’re attempting to remove barriers so we can all have a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

This is episode 161 of Removing Barriers Podcast, and in this episode. We will be sitting down with Brother Edward Thal to discuss the doctrine of the eternal security of the believer.

[Jay]

Hi, this is Jay. MCG and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to removingbarriers.net and subscribing to receive all things, removing barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at removing barriers.net/donate, removing barriers, a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

Bro. Thal, it is indeed a pleasure. Welcome back to the Removing Barriers podcast.

[Bro. Thal]

Thank you. It’s good to be here.

[MCG]

Great. All right, before we jump into the topic at hand, we know you started a new YouTube channel. Thal Tales. Tell us about it.

[Bro. Thal]

Yes. Well, I just talked. It’s time to give my point of view because it’s a Christian conservative point of view and there’s so much junk out there. There, try to make some little difference by letting people know if they happen to stumble across my channel that there is an alternative viewpoint to the madness that surrounds us. An alternative, sane viewpoint. And that’s what motivated me to start that I don’t have a lot of subscribers, but those who do subscribe seem to enjoy it. So I’m about ready. To in another batch of videos ready to put on to YouTube, I think I’ve got 16 or 17 up at the moment and they thought they range from 2:00 to 4:00 minutes each.

[MCG]

Go how can folks find you on YouTube?

[Bro. Thal]

Just by, you know, people always browsing YouTube and if they are looking for spiritual things or Christian doctrine or. Christian debate Christian viewpoints. They’ll usually come across my channel. The other one is just by putting my name in, getting on YouTube and typing in Thal Tales and it brings it up. The odd thing about it is I don’t have a very common last name. Tile is not like Smith or Jones and I. Call the tile tiles cause I figured I’d be the only tile on the Internet, but as it turns out, tile is a Hindu word. Apart from being a German name. And there are a lot of. Channels. With tile in them with Hindu content. So that was a bit of a surprise and it’s too late to go back now, so I’ll just live with.

[MCG]

Ohh wow.

[Bro. Thal]

My Hindu friends. And hope that the right people find their way to my channel.

[MCG]

Alright, brother. Well, let me encourage you to head over to YouTube and search as brother Thal said Thal Tales and put a face to the voice and learn from their wealth of wisdom. He has to share there. All right. Let’s get into this episode. They turn the security of the believer once, save always save. Let’s define that let’s have a working definition and then we’ll get into the meat of.

[Bro. Thal]

The matter? All right, let me begin by saying that it’s a question that invites labor theological debate, and I’m not a great fan of theological debate. There’s a lot more worth in consuming. The word that in dissecting the word, but having said that, in simplest terms, eternal security simply means that once you are born again.

Speaker

Yep.

[Bro. Thal]

To a new life. By the power of the God who made you. And then remade you after paying an unimaginable price for your sin. You cannot be unborn. I could quote numerous scriptures to support this position. Most notably John 1027 to 30. I know my sheep. I’m summarizing here. I know my sheep. I gave them eternal life and nobody can take them from me or from my.

Speaker

Father.

[Bro. Thal]

But the one that stands out to me. He he’s one of my favorite passages in the Bible. It’s magnificent truth recorded in two Corinthians 4-6 and seven. God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, has shined in our hearts to give the light to the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. And we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the Excellency of the power. Maybe of God and not of us. To me, this underlines the glorious scope, power and majesty and divinity of what I receive from God at the moment of my spiritual birth. And I cannot conceive of the possibility of losing it, no matter how hard I try.

[Jay]

When you mentioned second Corinthians chapter 4 verses 6 through 7, is that correct? OK, so some people would say that urban vessels, it’s up to us and it’s up to our ability to keep ourselves. It’s up to our strength in order to follow through with what we say our faith is.

[Bro. Thal]

Yes.

[Jay]

And. So I suppose my question is, are there any biblical proofs that are, let’s say, irrefutable when it comes to the eternal security of the believer? Because it sounds like people who are having this debate are generally safe. I don’t think unsaved people are having this debate and so saved people will take any scripture and say see. It means this or C it means what I’m saying. How can we know and what are those biblical proofs that prove the eternal security of the believer?

[Bro. Thal]

I believe I’ve quoted to me the most important one. That’s John, 1027 to 30. That’s an emphatic statement by Jesus. There are other proof scriptures. The debates are often so emotional because people have got pre ordained stances, beliefs that I honestly and having had many debates, I reached the stage where I thought this isn’t helpful to anybody. The whole premise I believe of our salvation. Is that the God who saved us because he loved us requires one thing of us in response to love him in return. And that as we love him, we grow in the grace and knowledge of God, but our shallowness, spiritual shallowness, is no hindrance to God’s eternal love and God’s power to sustain us. And to keep us as one of his having bought us with the price, our free world choice is to be saved. And once saved, it’s now God’s responsibility to keep us in his. And. And he’s well able to do that.

[MCG]

You know, one of the ways I look at it, brother Toll and see if you check with me on this one. Of course I have young kids and I realize there’s a big difference if my 2 year old is holding on to me versus I am holding on to him. Yes. So if he’s holding on to me, he can easily let go and run off. If he wants to. But I realize that if I hold on to him, he can pull all he wants. He’s not strong enough to pull his hand out of my. I wonder if that’s similar to the eternal security of the believer because you quoted John earlier way, nobody is able to talk them out of my hand. It seemed like God is holding on to us and.

[Bro. Thal]

Not the other way around. Exactly the responsibility here or it’s more than responsibility. The ability is God, not ours. We have the free will to choose to receive or reject salvation. Having made that choice, and in our case, having made the choice to be saved, we now become God’s. He and he is well able to keep us safe. I mean, to me, that’s a principle that is so clear. If one would think that it’s possible to lose your salvation, it means you know, if we talk about the weak and the tears, it maybe you were never saved in the first place. If that’s your constant fear, perhaps you need to approach God again in humility and just be sure, do I have this thing right? Do I understand salvation? If you want to another scripture, go back to the very start where we have a powerful picture in script.

[MCG]

Right.

[Bro. Thal]

Of what it means to be saved, and that’s in Exodus when Israel are slaves in Egypt. Israel, a picture of God’s people held enslaved in Egypt. A picture of the world under the rule of Pharaoh. A picture of Satan and God brings salvation to the Israelites. And he does it in a unique way. He warns them that a death Angel is coming, and if they want to escape the death Angel, they need to go out in their flocks and examine a lamb. Find a perfect. Them and that lamb to become a sacrifice. And they are then to put the blood of the sacrifice on the door of their homes, go into the home, shut the door. And he says when the death Angel comes and I see the blood, I will pass over you. What he’s looking for is the blood. And if you want further. Confirmation of that’s all it. Text you you read the text, you will notice that in the process of replying the blood of the land, they are also given a lot of instructions about what to wear, how to be ready, how many of them are to eat, the fact that they’ve gotta eat it all, they gotta have their Staffs in their hands. They gotta prepare themselves for this long journey. But if they don’t follow those instructions, what they’re going to do is impede their progress on the journey. But it does not affect their salvation, because nowhere in the text you read that the Death Angel are. Lives seize the blood and then looks through the window to check. Are they following all my instructions? He doesn’t do that, he says all that turns him away. Is the blood of the lamb, and that’s enough to save them their next. Step of course. Is to leave Egypt through the Red Sea, which is a type of baptism. After salvation, if you want to further fantastic picture, I mean just gorgeous picture is the wilderness wanderings of Israel are replete with stories again and again and again of how God’s people fail. They complain constantly. They whine, they moan at their first opportunity to sin. They have a wild party, create an idol for themselves and just behave in the most reprehensible way, and it continues for 40 years while they wander in the world, Arness. But if you get to the end of that story, you’ll find that. A corrupt king who’s heard about the exploits of the Israelites and the army and fears that he might not be strong enough to defeat them. He goes and finds himself a false prophet and bribes the man to come and curse Israel. And the false Prophet tries his best to curse Israel and every time he does, the curse turns into a blessing and God. Answer. To the Prophet who wants to know why can’t curse Israel? God’s answer is unbelievable to us sinners who don’t fully appreciate our salvation. God’s answer is I’ve not seen any sin in Israel.

[MCG]

Oh wow.

[Bro. Thal]

Now I’ve just read, I’ve finished reading the Book of Exodus and Numbers. This litany of sins, and I could give you all this scripture verses, but you’d be blessed if you look them up for yourself. After all of that, the total humiliating failures for God to say I don’t see any sin in them tells us something about our salvation. And the power of the blood. So if you can tell get exercised by the subject, it’s because I can’t believe that anyone would think that God is incapable of keeping us safe. Once we hand ourselves into his hands.

[MCG]

Yeah, definitely. And of course, Philippines won six, being confident of this very thing that he was begun a good work in. You will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ. So definitely.

[Bro. Thal]

Yeah, and and that’s again, that verse sums up what happened in the wilderness. God begins to work in them and is determined to finish the work, whether or not we cooperate with him.

[MCG]

Yep. So, but it’s all I know you knock on doors regularly, just like I do. I remember a few years ago I was knocking on the door and it happened to be a young Muslim man answered the door. He’s in college studying computer science and I have a computer science degree. So we kind of connected that way. But one of the things that he attacked. On Christianity, to my surprise, because I’ve never heard another Muslim attack, this particular doctrine was the doctrine of eternal security of the believer and he was adamant that logically. This means that you have a life into sin and there is no such life into sin where the Muslim how would you defend this? Is this a license to sin?

[Bro. Thal]

Yeah, let me begin by saying that it’s only a license to send if someone is a non believer or a very immature believer. The fact is when you meet Jesus Christ. As your savior and fall in love with him, the last thing on your mind is seeking excuses to act in ways that will disturb and disappoint him. In that context, sin is a habit that can be broken. It’s a momentary yielding to temptation that leaves a bitter and unwelcome. After taste in the mouth of every true. Ever. And we’re not going to reach perfect from this side of heaven, but we do grow spiritually stronger and sinless as we walk with God and that the process of walking with God and sinning and falling and getting up and going on is part of God’s process of maturing us spiritually, you know the. First thing for one’s faith is to be constantly looking over your shoulder, wondering if you’ve now committed the unpardonable sin. That’s a hideous way to live. Imagine your own child feeling that way about his parents. My parents not going to disown me because I was naughty. Today the whole thing is absurd.

Speaker

Hmm.

[Bro. Thal]

So the people have the most trouble in appreciating the doctrine of eternal security. The fact of eternal security are people who have no concept of salvation and then very immature believers who have a very weak concept of salvation, are in the same boat, have constantly fearing for their salvation.

[Jay]

Brother Tom, I’d like to ask a little bit more about that, because if a believer, a new believer. As a very weak or incomplete understanding of salvation, in the sense that they believe perhaps, that they can lose it and they don’t understand the eternal security of the believer, does that mean that they’re believing in a workspace salvation and they’re not genuinely saved? Or does it just mean that they’re not being properly taught? In other words, if a person doesn’t believe or doesn’t understand eternal security, does that mean that they’re genuinely saved? Is it a salvific dot? Trend.

[Bro. Thal]

Yeah. You know your belief or not in eternal security doesn’t affect the fact of your salvation. If you have received Jesus Christ as your savior, the gospel is very clear. We approach God on the basis of our brokenness and accept his gift of salvation to heal us. If you’ve done that, if you’ve been convicted of your sinfulness and the judgment that you’re going to experience because of your sinfulness, and you turn to God and. To receive the salvation that you want for us through Jesus Christ, that’s all you need to do. There’s no other condition that you need to fulfill. And whether or not after that you are foolish enough to start believing in fairy tales, well, that’s just going to diminish the quality and effectiveness of your walk with God. All the days of your life on this earth. And I’m. Afraid we see that all around us. In baby Christians, in immature churches, in churches that compromise constantly with world. I’m talking about. Churches are born again. People who really don’t understand and appreciate their salvation because they don’t read their Bibles, they don’t hear good preaching from the pulpit. They don’t get good teaching and so and I call them fairy tales. They believe fairy tales because they don’t know any better, but that affects their walk on this earth, the joy, the power. Of their walk on this earth, this side of heaven will be diminished through their foolish belief in fairy tales. It will not affect their salvation. The two are totally separate. Salvation is one thing, whether you like it or not. Once you’ve received Jesus Christ, your savior, you’re going to heaven when you die. You’ve fulfilled God’s requirement. The only question now is, are you going to have a delightful experience for the rest of your life? Are you going to enjoy the life that you now have in Christ? Is it going to be victorious? Are you going to live in a way that causes other people to be drawn to Christ? Or are you just going to be a miserable? Christian, not quite sure whether you really want to be saved or constantly fearing that maybe you’re not saved. Those are the issues, the quality of your life as a Christian is affected by your. Peace your salvation boats by the blood of Christ is not affected and go back to my picture in Egypt. Those people in the house read the text. If they weren’t following the instructions, it made absolutely no difference to their salvation because the death Angel looked for one thing, blood on the door. That’s what saved.

[MCG]

So let me ask you two questions here, Brother Toline. One, because I think they’re kind of tied. So the skeptic of your position will say, hey, if someone is believing that their works can make them unsafe, they must be believing that their works made them safe. So that’s one. And two, do you think this is totally a doctrinal issue then?

[Bro. Thal]

Yes, it is. It’s the, you know, the opening I said I don’t like getting into these debates because they just pass them after a while about the kind of issue you just raised. They’re not helpful at all. And we could split hairs. We could come up with a lot of what ifs. You know, it’s like people talking about good Christians and bad Christians. There’s no such thing as a being unsafe by being a bad Christian. The only question is based on your behavior. Do you have the spirit of God in you, or don’t you, you know, see us? Lewis made a wonderful win for guarding sin that we cannot say God gives a man free will and at the same time withholds free will from him. God will not punish a man. For exercising his free will in salvation and then withholding salvation from him because of his salvation, he keeps exercising his free will in a way that’s not pleasing to God. God is morally perfect, and his principles are always sound, and the question for you and me and every other. Leave. Is having been saved? Do I want to have a quality Christian life or do I want to be a miserable Christian and you know, I keep telling people it’s up to you. You want heaven to begin right now. OK, then follow the way the Bible tells you to walk with Jesus and you will experience heaven on Earth right now. Joy, unspeakable and full of glory is part of the inheritance of a Christian on this earth. Peace that passes all understanding is your inheritance on this earth. If you will just walk with far and I can point you to. Schools are good. Christian people who are undoubtedly saved, who don’t have peace and don’t have joy because. They’re not walking with God as they should. Doesn’t mean they’re not saved. They’re just unhappy in their salvation. That’s their fault. But kicking and screaming, they’re gonna get to heaven one day, you know. Let me recommend a book on the subject. The great divorce by CS Lewis. She paints a wonderful picture there of a guy arriving in heaven and he’s not ready for it.

[MCG]

Amen.

[Bro. Thal]

Because he’s walked so far away from God in his Christian. Life and Heaven is a strange place to him. It’s very uncomfortable in the beginning, and I believe that’s exactly what’s going to happen with a lot of Christians. They’re gonna get to heaven and feel out of place there because they haven’t experienced heaven on Earth. On the other hand, you’re gonna get other Christians arriving in heaven and it’s going to be very familiar. Jesus will be very familiar. The joys of heaven, the wonders of heaven because they’ve experienced them on Earth in this present life.

[MCG]

Let’s go into a little bit of a break.

[Bro. Thal]

Probably my raising my voice, I get carried away with this.

[Jay]

No, no, no.

[MCG]

So let’s go into a little bit of break and then when we come back on the other side, we will talk a little bit more, delve into a little bit more of the doctrine of eternal security of the believer or once safe, always safe.

[Bro. Thal]

Welcome to tall tales, occasional thoughts on contemporary culture from a conservative Christian point of view. There was a time in the Western world and in America in particular, when a Christian viewpoint was valued by the culture or at least tolerated because Christianity was generally seen as a necessary component of a healthy society. But those days are long gone. We live in a post Christian world. So what’s the point of these videos if you watch them and fewer still see any value in them? The point is that I spend a lot of time reading and thinking and writing about Christianity and its impact on history, on society, on community, and on me. A lot of what I learn and digest makes its way into occasional sermons I’m privileged to share and into several books I’ve enjoyed writing. You can find the books on Amazon. And here you’ll find the distillation of some of my thoughts in video form. So thanks for watching. And if you’re one of the handful of people who may find something of value here, please hit the subscribe button, leave a comment and tell your friends about tall tales. Yes, I know it’s a corny name, but all the good ones were taken.

[Jay]

Hi, this is Jay. MCG and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to removingbarriers.net and subscribing to receive all things, removing barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at removing barriers.net/donate, removing barriers, a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

Alright, so vitally you are very adamant that once a person is saved, they’re always saved. However.

[Bro. Thal]

Yes.

[MCG]

We have Hebrews, chapter 6, verse one to six. I’m going to read it because folks might be listening. Might not want to go and read it, he says, therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ. Let us go on onto perfection, not laying again. The foundation of repentance from Dead Works and the fate towards God of the doctrine of. Baptism and the laying on of hands out of resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. And this will we do if God. Permit for it is impossible for those who are once enlightened and have taste of the heavenly gift and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the world to come if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance, saying they crucified to themselves. The son of God afresh and put him to an open shame. Would you explain that passage of Scripture? Or maybe you can extend it if needs be in light of eternal security.

[Bro. Thal]

Sure. First, it’s important to read the passage in its context. The teaching recorded in 511 to 6 three speaks of the need to move on to spiritual maturity, and we would better understand what follows for the rest of that path. It’s by simply observing that it states the impossibility of a truly saved individual to be lost, to be pride from the hands of the Good Shepherd, or from his father’s hands. Stated in John 1027 to 29, note the surety offered at the end of Hebrew 6 from verse 16 to 20. I’ll read that to you Hebrew 6 from verse 16 to 20. For men, verily swear by the greater and an oath for confirmation is to them and end of all strife wherein God willing, more abundantly to show unto the heirs of promise, the immutability of his castle confirmed it by an oath that by two immutable things in which it was impossible for God to lie. We might have strong consolation who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us, which hope we have as an anchor of. The soul, both sure and steadfast, in which enters into that is in the veil. Whether the forerunner is for us entered. Even Jesus made an high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek. There’s another passage we could read in Matthew. We won’t read it now. Matthew 1318 to 23. The parable of the Sower with Matthew 1324 to 30, the Parable of Tears. Here we see that false wheat is indistinguishable from true wheat. And it’s no accident that we read first how seed is sown and may germinate before we are led to consider the possibility of counterfeit seed. From our perspective, it may seem that someone who is saved goes on to commit unpardonable sins. But God has a different perspective. He may see that a child of his does terrible things, demanding the father’s stern correction, while another who may check all the boxes of. Good and I’m using air quotes here. Good Christian living nevertheless does not have the life of God in him. The other lesson of the prodigal son and his elder brother replies.

Speaker

MHM.

[Bro. Thal]

The prodigal goes away, waste his inheritance, lands up in the hog pin, comes crawling back full of repentance to his father, and is instantly restored. Whereas the elder brother who stayed in the home and did everything his father asked of him had a bad spirit, resented his younger brother, resented his father’s grace, and criticized his father for not appreciating his hard work, his works by salvation. And faith-based salvation side by side and you could probably ask the majority of Christians today who was more worthy of salvation and they would tell you the older brother. He did everything right. And that young fool did everything wrong. He didn’t deserve salvation. Precisely. He didn’t deserve salvation. He came crawling back and begged for it, begged for forgiveness just as David did. You know the difference between Saul King Saul and King David is profound. If you read the story at first Samuel Chapter 15, an amazing chapter which describes an individual King Saul, who is a very shallow man, disobedient to God. Who did not, could not confess his sin and repent when he was confronted by his sin, and the Kingdom was taken away from him. By contrast, David commits awful sins, the two worst possible sins in the 10 Commandments, adultery and murder. And God calls him a man of his own heart. And how do you explain that you explain that by grace. And if you want to know what separates David from Saul, reads Psalm 50. One first read solves pathetic excuses in first Samuel 15 and then go to Psalm 51 and David’s immediate response. Have mercy upon me. Oh, God, have mercy upon me, for it’s against thee. Thee only have I sinned and done this evil. In thy sight. And he goes on to admit he’s worthy of God’s judgement. He’s worthy of God’s punishment. But he begs God for forgiveness, and God says, of course I’ll forgive. You, you go and read the story of King Ahab and the Bible describes King Ahab as the worth of all the Kings of Israel. There was never anybody as bad as Ahab, and God sends a prophet to Ahab to tell him I’m done with you. I’m not putting up with your nonsense anymore. You’re going to be judged by me and they have. Response is instant. He realizes he’s gone too far. He immediately tears his garments, put sackcloth on him. It crawls up into a little ball and begs for forgiveness, and God’s response is immediate, he says. The Prophet, hey, do you see what I have done? Don’t tell him. I’ll bless him.

Speaker

Hmm.

[Bro. Thal]

Now to the carnal mind. That’s inconceivable. It’s just crazy. But to someone who understands the big block of salvation and the grace of God, it’s just one more reason to worship him for his wisdom and goodness and to worship him for the wonder of salvation, for sinners such as we are. So the question is never about good Christians and bad Christians. Because one may appear, buys needs to be very good, yet not be a Christian at all, while another may do bad things and be a true Christian at heart. The question is always, as I’ve said, does God’s spirit live in you or not now some are going to protest that the indwelling life of our saviour would make the commitment of very bad sins impossible. Well, then that person’s not living in the real world. My first objection to this view would be to ask for a definition of very bad. What’s a very bad sin? All sin is bad. And my second objection would be to point out that at no time in our born again life do we lose the gift of free will to sin. Though I must hasten to add, we cannot choose to become unborn in the same way that a child cannot traverse his birth by entering again into his mother’s womb. So I can’t use. My free will. To take myself back to my unborn state, but I can choose my free will to sin now, As for apostates. I think a lot of people who claim to be Christian or not, that’s the tears in the wheat.

[MCG]

Mm-hmm.

[Bro. Thal]

Their mouths profess Christ in their true nature denies Christ because they were never born into Christ family. And you know our personal anecdotes don’t prove or disprove scripture. I can personally testify, though I’m ashamed to do so. There was an extended period in my life when, as a born again Christian, if I had met you and told you that I was saying. That said, that’s impossible. Nobody knew I was a Christian. Nobody would have believed I was a Christian, but I knew I was. I knew I was born again and I knew God was gonna catch up with me. And he did. And when he did, he.

[MCG]

Help me.

[Bro. Thal]

Which I’m very grateful for. The Good Shepherd never stopped pursuing me, and he will leave the flock of 100, the 99 to go and look for that one. Lost sheep. Not might not go well for that sheep when the shepherd catches up for him, but he’s still part of the flock. So to me, what this proves is that ultimately in these matters we should leave the final judgment to. Are who is fully capable of administering appropriate justice, leaving us to serve him with a spring in our step and a song in our hearts and not constantly looking over our shoulders in fear. Just focus on Jesus and everything will be fine.

[MCG]

As you said, I’d welcome to my mind, sometimes I will ask folks at the door this question mostly if I’m speaking to a man rather than a woman, but I will say, do you think that you are better father than God, God the father? Because a lot of times they will say things that I will say to you, OK, as a father, you make sure, hey, you’re. That have a place to live, food to eat, you know, clothes on their back. And you probably go out of your way to such extent to ensure that. Why do you think that God is the worst father than you? You know, regardless of what your child have done, you know so.

[Bro. Thal]

Exactly, yes.

[Jay]

Brother tall, if you don’t mind, I would like to ask you about you mentioned the parable of the Sower. There is another parable of the wheat and the tears. And when the workers came to the owner of the field and he said, oh, you know, they said there’s wheat and there’s tears and the owner of the field said, hey, the enemy has done this. He’s sown tears among the wheat. We’ll let them grow up. And then at the end, we’ll separate them. Wheat goes in the barn. Tears will.

[Bro. Thal]

Yes, yes.

[Jay]

Be burned up. But here, with the parable of the solar, the solar is spreading the same. Seed. So one would assume that these are genuine believers. The difference is the soil at this point where it fell along the road or in good soil, or in the thorny areas. So does the parable of the Sower disprove eternal security in any way? And how would you respond to someone that makes that claim?

[Bro. Thal]

And there’s a confusion of terms here. The seed is the life of God.

Speaker

Hmm.

[Bro. Thal]

The seed is salvation. That’s what’s being sown. Then you have different kinds of response to that seed. I mean I could take you to any number of shallow churches today where people go there and sing rock music for an hour and get their emotions stirred up here at 2 minute sermon and go home feeling great and return to their old life. They didn’t go to commune with God. In Christ, they went to get a feel good and they are some of the people mentioned in the parable of the. Power. It’s our response to the gospel that counts. And if we respond correctly to the gospel for salvation, gods, commitment to us, having gone to the incredible lengths of dying on the cross for us is not going to turn us aside. You know, let me give you another example. People will make a big deal about how one should. Pray for salvation to get it right. You gotta pray the right prayer. You gotta do it. And with the right attitude, you’ve got to confess your sins and repent. And there’s a whole laundry list of things you’ve gotta do to ensure that you actually get saved when you want to be saved. But that discounts real life. And if you want to see a really good prayer, look at someone drowning off a beach. He’s out in the surf and he’s drowning and there’s a lifeguard on the shore in his red uniform. And the drowning man does not. While he’s out there confess that he’s done a dumb thing by being caught in a current. And he does a doubly dumb thing because he didn’t learn to swim properly. And then also he did not heed the warning sign on the beach, saying do not enter now. This is bad time. He ignored all of that. He’s a ***** from her. He’s now drowning. He’s not going to say all of those things to lifeguard. You know what he’s going to say? Help. And that’s a very good prayer when you’re gone. Well, the same thing applies to someone drowning in sin. Just be real help. I realize I’m. I need some help. And God says Ohh, waiting to hear that prayer. I. I can tell you actually mean it, not the prayer of somebody who. Chooses exactly the right words and gets suspicious. Look on their face and holds their hands in a certain position and kneels at the altar with the Bible open in front of them. That’s not gonna win their salvation. It’s the attitude of the heart. Do you really want to be saved? And so I say all of that to say that our churches are full of tears. And we. And God will sort it all out. On judgment day.

[MCG]

Yeah, definitely. We did an episode recently on TD Jakes and the accusations against him don’t know if they true or not, but we did an episode. I know if you got a chance to listen to that one. But is it interesting as you compare because I think I did that in the episode of A compare Saul’s response to saying and David responds to saying and kind of look at both of them and. Even no, this is accusation, but his response to saying and you talk about the feel good. Because when I was preparing for that. Episode I’ve never really knew much about TD Jakes or listen to the messages, but one thing that struck me he’s an amazing motivational speaker. He can get you riled up and fired up.

[Bro. Thal]

Play Joe Osteen.

[MCG]

Right. And same thing. And so you look at these men life and you wonder you say, are they truly saved? And you think about let the tears grow up with the weeds. Let the tears work with the weed and we’ll find out, you know, at the end of the day. But because they have such a following. You know, some people look at the fruit Cortana code that they produce and say, OK, those are on the thorny soil or those are on this kind of soil, you know? And I don’t know. Sometimes when I look at these passages, Matthew 13, verse 18 to 23, because I’ve heard so many different pastors expound on it, and they all seem like they want to go in a different direction. And what this means. Some say you know all of them were saved. Some say only one particular group was saved and stuff like that and OK with you, you know, at the end of the day when we get to heaven, we’ll. And I’ll, I don’t know if I have a perfect understanding of this passage, to be honest. But at the end of the day, we will say, you know what? We’ll find out, but I don’t think it disproves all the facts that you expound on showing that salvation one is not by works. And two, God is the one who’s keeping us there. And I think that’s important to emphasize regardless of. The theological explanation we can give for these, you know, quote UN quote difficult passages.

[Bro. Thal]

Yeah, the Bible is an extraordinary. That has one message from Genesis to Revelation. Only one one message. Very simple man is a Sinner. God has provided the Savior, and if you read your Bible and don’t get that, then you’re not paying attention. And when we respond to God in the knowledge of that, when we’re honest enough to say yes, I confess. I’m a Sinner and I need a savior. That’s the cry for help that God responds to. When we come to God, on the other hand, because it makes us feel good because we’ve been told, hey, if you just take Jesus as your savior, he’s going to fix all your problems. You’re gonna pay your bills, you’re gonna buy you a Rolls Royce. And a nice fancy watch and you’ll have a wonderful life because God is love. And he said just come as you are and he’s gonna love you anyway. You know, I think the people who go to those churches know in the back of their minds this is nonsense. This can’t be real. What kind of a God is he? Who would put up with my junk because he’s so desperate to have me as one of his followers. So there is so much improper teaching and so much confusion. All over the place. But that’s the sign of the end times you live in, by the way. You know where the purest churches are, where the persecution of Christians is greatest. Why is that? Because it costs something to become a Christian, and the people who just like in the New Testament days.

Speaker

Hmm.

[Bro. Thal]

People often understood it was a death warrant to receive Christ as their savior. They did it anyway because they got a revelation of just how much they needed God, and it was worth the price. Any price to be saved. You make it easy, believers and and people come to God for a host of. Incorrect motives. And it’s all unreal. It’s just a vast field of tears that leads us ultimately to this sort of discussion where how do we know who’s safe and who’s not safe?

[MCG]

Yeah, alright brother. We definitely appreciate it that you come on and expand your knowledge here and we’ll definitely have you back some time. Can I?

[Bro. Thal]

Say just.

[MCG]

Go ahead.

[Bro. Thal]

Just one other. Thing. Because if anyone knows the Bible, they’ll know that they clearly is evidence in scripture of people who are the elect of God, Jeremiah. It says so in so many words. Before I formed you in the belly, I knew the and ordained your profit to the nations. The apostle Paul, I believe, was a designer model of someone who God created that man to perform a very specific task. John the Baptist, who acknowledged Jesus before he was born. He left in his mother’s womb when Mary walked in with Jesus in her womb. These people.

Speaker

Mm-hmm.

[Bro. Thal]

Elect to God to perform a specific function at the specific time. People object to Israel. How could God choose Israel and make Israel so special to the exclusion of everybody else? That’s not a just God. That’s not a loving God. God couldn’t love me if he chooses Israel above me, and the answer to that is in every case, whether it’s God’s election of Israel or God’s election of Jeremiah or John the Baptist. From our corrupt perspective, we think God does that to exclude some, but that’s not the fact God does that not to exclude anybody, but to use those ones he elects as instruments to expand opportunities for others to be saved. The reason he chose Israel was to use Israel as an instrument to bring the gospel to the whole world. Through Jesus Christ, what a wonderful, generous thing that is, and God has saved you and. He given us this gift of salvation so that we can reach others. That’s why. The the first words he spoke to his disciples follow me and I will make you fishers of men. I’m not gonna make you rich, powerful, popular and happy. I’m gonna make you fishers of men. And the last words he spoke as he send it up into heaven will go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. That’s why we say.

[MCG]

Yeah.

[Bro. Thal]

Be a follower of Jesus who preaches the gospel every chance you get and let others know about this magnificent gift of salvation for everyone. Hallelujah and Amen. Alright buddy.

[Jay]

Amen. This is the removing barriers podcast. If the podcast or the blog were a blessing to you, leave us a rating and a review on your favorite podcast platform. And don’t forget to share the podcast with your friends, removing barriers, a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

Thank you for listening. To get a hold of us to support this podcast or to learn more about removing barriers. Go to: removingbarriers.net. This has been the removing barriers podcast. We attempted to remove barriers so that we all can have a clear view of the cross.