Episode 160

There are over a billion Catholics in the world and in most minds, the religion is synonymous with Christianity. What is it exactly that Catholics believe? Are they Christians in the biblical sense of the word? Can someone believe and live by the fundamental tenets of Catholicism and also be genuinely saved? Today on the Removing Barriers podcast we sit down with Shawn Henly, the founder of Cross Crusaders. Cross Crusaders is an Independent, Fundamental, King James Bible-believing, Baptist ministry.  Our world is one that believes if there is a heaven, most people will get there regardless of what they believe, so join us as we seek Biblical truth to cut through the lies.

[Shawn Henly]

And one of the projects we’re working on right now is a truth prevaileth, which is a docu series meant to show Professing Christians and non-Christians that much of what’s happening today in Christianity is not biblical Christianity, but instead a counterfeit Christianity.

[Jay]

Thank you for tuning in to the Removing Barriers podcast. I’m Jay and I’m MCG. And we’re attempting to remove barriers so we can all have a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

This is episode 160 of Removing Barriers podcasts, and this is the third in the series of What Do You Believe? And in this episode, we’ll be looking at what Roman Catholics believe.

[Jay]

Hi, this is Jay. MCG and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to removingbarriers.net and subscribing to receive all things, removing barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at removingbarriers.net/donate, removing barriers. A clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

And joining us for this episode is Sean Henley. Sean is the founder and president of Cross Crusaders Sean. It is indeed a pleasure and welcome to the Removing Barriers podcast.

[Shawn Henly]

Certainly. Thank you, MJG. It is good to be here.

[MCG]

Great. All right. Well, let’s start before we dive into Roman Catholics. Tell us about yourself. Tell us about cross crusaders. For those who have not heard of you and your. History.

[Shawn Henly]

Yeah. Certainly. So, yeah. So my name is Sean Henley. I am only 19 years old. Pretty much sharing a little bit about my testimony really, because how I got saved is because of ministry. Really. You know, initially before cross Crusaders, you know, we have two branches of two different versions of Ministry and that’s available for anyone to read very in depth of this on the cross prosecutors website. But initially the whole ministry started as a gaming ministry and I wanted to. People you know with Christ and whatnot. And I was a false comrade at the age of 7, so I thought I was safe and I was very, you know, pretty much growing up in a brother and household born again, brethren household. You know, I thought I was safe and I continued this very ecumenical method in quote UN quote ministry. And it wasn’t until. In November 2019, that two fundamentalists, they they told me, don’t even know what you’re doing. Do you know? The gospel is that I thought the gospel just, you know, praying a little prayer and getting on with it. But they really told me about what it is to really accept the doctor, the free gift of salvation, and what the real gift of what things were really sunk in to be at that moment because we had knowledge till that point and it really sunk in to me at that moment. And and that’s how I got. Same and slowly but surely it will be switched to an evangelical ministry and then cross crusaders is called as a Reformed Baptist ministry in July 2021. And you know from there on. Really, you know, this might play a little bit because right now we are a King James on the Fundamental Baptist Ministry and how that came to be transitioned from a reformed to that really is late 2021, I believe between the month of September and November of 2021. You know, don’t think I’m a charismatic when I say this, but. I used to have these poor dreams. You know, it used to be a void with just these screens, with people saying, hey, why didn’t someone tell me the. Why? I didn’t know what telling and things like that, and it shook me because I thought I was doing everything right and just being conservative and whatnot. And really, it was a sermon from sermon audio from the fundamentalist creature from the 1900s nineteen 50s. I believe I forgot his name, but it is why I believe my King James Bond. And really, that’s what got me thinking, you know, is there something to this whole king, James Onlyism? Is there something to the, quote, UN quote, final authority as these people put it. And that’s really from the research and. Prayer is where I got to becoming a King James only list on January 2020. Do and that’s where we have been as a ministry since then. From that point, we do so many campaigns that we with churches by providing tracts and Bibles or underfunded churches, almost funded churches or church plants and stuff like that. And you know, we do work like that.

[MCG]

All right, I know folks going to ask. So before we get into Roman Catholic, when you say you’re King James only. Are you saying that it’s? Someone’s words presented the gospel with, let’s say the NIV and they got saved that they’re not truly saved because they weren’t led to the Lord, quote UN quote. So to. Speak. With a King James Bible, what exactly do you mean when you say you’re King James? Only bit off topic, but curious.

[Shawn Henly]

No worries, no worries. That’s an excellent question or something I’ve received very often, mostly in the terms of the heated debate, but realistically, to answer your question point blank, you can be saved with any. Translation. You can’t be saved because, quite frankly, even though a lot of people say, contrary to this, they say that ohh, you know the lines of the gospel are completely marred in all different translations. And and it’s all false, gospel and whatnot. I’d have to say no, that’s not true. You can very much be saved now. This is. Where as the King and many people do agree with me on this. Where and the branch of the King James Bullyism that I believe in. I believe that you can be saved by an idea to the street. Preacher came up to you and preach out of an NIV or NKJV or an Lt. I do believe it’s the authentic gospel is being presented and the message of the cross and all of that is being mentioned. In essence, you would be saved whether that is a King James only or not. That is not the issue now. This is where I do say that I would treat other English translations. As you know, attract, to be honest and what I mean by this is I say that it is a track because I believe it has very important values. I believe that the majority of what is in the King James and many of these modern translations. But God said Nancy, 5-8 pieces that ultimately that he has. Preserve his word entire. Really entirely to and none of it will pass, so all would be fulfilled and so for that word all to make sense. That means that not one word, not one job or one fiddle would pass. And so realistically, that’s where I draw the line because these modern translations, they do take out some words here and there. The majority, the majority of the message, has been passed, so that’s where really I stand on the King James Bible, being the final authority.

[MCG]

All right, well. Definitely a topic for another podcast, but let’s get into Roman Catholics. All right? Tell us who are the Roman Catholics and how many are there around the world and stuff like that? Let’s start there with the Roman Catholics.

[Shawn Henly]

Certainly, certainly so. As of right now, the Roman Catholics is approximately 1.3 billion globally compared to previous years. And. There’s been a. That look and pretty much geographically speaking, you know, Africa accounts for 19.3% of the global capital per. Trinity, the North and South Americas, has around a 48%, but there has been in the past two to three years. There has been a slight decline. All Catholic membership and people being converted into Catholicism and the same cases in Europe. Now it’s at 22. Percent Catholic and Asia is also declining with 11%, so that is geographically where that stands really in the clerical side, pretty much Catholic clergy men, there’s a 462,000 and 388. So there is a slight decrease in that side as well. So we are seeing. Pretty much globally, other than in Africa, pretty much everywhere else in the world compared to the previous two to five years, you’re seeing a decrease in in converse with topology from these people taking on.

[MCG]

Yeah, definitely a good thing.

[Jay]

Can you give us a quick history lesson on the background and the history of the Roman Catholic Church? Generally when you say Catholic people are thinking Roman Catholic Church, but we also know from the history that not even Catholics all really agree on the same thing. Some of them venerate the Pope and others kind of see him differently. And there’s also the similarities between. Say the Eastern Orthodox and all of these other liturgical type faiths that are somewhat closely related to Catholicism. Can you give us a quick rundown on the history of Roman Catholic? Susan.

[Shawn Henly]

Yes. So to be quite frank with you, you know I wouldn’t be the best person to ask that question in the entire history of Roman Catholicism, because I myself have not studied the entirety of the entire history. Now you are correct. There are different branches, not just Roman Catholicism. There’s Eastern orthodoxy and whatnot. And unfortunately, I am not. A good person to ask that question to. However, I did understand that the first term, the term Catholic Church, was used in 110 AD by Ination of Antioch in a letter to the Church of Smyrna. And this is where we get the word Catholic Church, really. In an official letter or a document. Really. And from there they can see in 195, you know, we see mentioned of hope. Victor, the first, the first African hope and such in one 9518. And so really we see this growth coming in from Africa. Around the 151-9200 AD. And then it really grows from there and another crucial point in the Catholic history really is where we have in 381 eighty we have the first Ecumenical Council constant noble. And pretty much after that we have a long way. After that, they’re moving much forward into the 1869. This is the first Medical Council of the Vatican. This is much after they have expanded and grown. During the Ecumenical Council and the 8th of December 1869. And then after that pretty much we have the 2nd Ecumenical Council, which was the most recent Ecumenical Council of the Catholic Church, and pretty much this one covered, you know, covered the importance of victimism drawing the bridge between. The Protestants. And the Roman Catholic bringing that bridge. Together and that’s what the material was discussed. So yes, I do apologize if I was not able to answer the question correct.

[Jay]

OK, I’m just pulling up my notes here because you talked about the infallibility of the Pope and how that came about several centuries later, if not a millennia later. And that kind of blew my mind a little bit there. But we’ll just keep down the track there because one of the things that defines Catholicism is the Pope. Like, when you think Catholic, you think the Pope. So if the first mention of the Catholic Church was in the early 1st century. How is it that papal authority came about 1000 years later, and where was papal authority during that time? So what are the core beliefs of the Roman Catholic Church? Do you have to ascribe to papal authority? Do you have to? I don’t know. Prayer, prayer, take mass, or how does it work? What are the core beliefs and core tenets of the Roman Catholic faith? One of those things that say you do this, you are Roman Catholic.

[MCG]

And we know there are many, so maybe you can summarize them.

[Shawn Henly]

Yes, certainly. So, yes. So pretty much the. Our belief and pretty much be summarized and to initially answer a part of your statement earlier. We don’t really know much because like I mentioned, the first word, the Catholic Church was mentioned long time back in the form 11AD. And so realistically we don’t have much documented information now in regards to the.

[MCG]

Mm-hmm.

[Shawn Henly]

Belief pretty much the 19 creed pretty much this is a statement of faith that includes belief in one God, the father of mighty in Jesus Christ, the only son. God, who was born of the Virgin Mary, suffered, died, buried rose from the dead and the send to heaven, and in the Holy Spirit, and it pretty much also affirms the belief in one holy Catholic and the word Catholic, meaning universal and Apostolic Church, the communion of Saints, forgetting the sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life of the last. And so they believed in this night. And creed for much time. And then another thing that is very much dominant in their belief system is the sacred tradition and. Scripture, pretty much the importance of the tradition as a living transmission on the word of God. You know, pretty much transmitted down handed on from the apostles for the Bishop. Particularly the Eucharist, pretty much, they believe that it is the real presence of Jesus Christ in the form of bread and wine. Things and other sacraments are including baptism, confirmation, reconciliation, which is known as confession or penance, anointing of the sick, holy orders, and matrimony. Then there is the belief in Mary and the faith. You know, Mary, the mother of Jesus, as the holding her in a special generation, believing in her Immaculate Conception. And the assumption into heaven. Now they do. In essence, there is great debate, you know, and we believe personally that you know, they go to her for intercession. And pretty much they also venerate the Saints and ask for their prayers. It’s another. One of their highly. And as I already mentioned pretty much, they also do believe in papal authority. You know, he is the final authority and everything. And then there’s the, you know, they believe just like how we do, they believe in the afterlife to an extent because while they believe in a heaven and a hell, there’s an additional thing which is known as purgatory, which is the state of purification for those who die. But they still need purification before entering heaven, which is not what we have in our body. So these are pretty much summed up viewpoints. Speak.

[MCG]

Yeah, definitely. So when I think about the Catholic Church, I normally think about how I know we talk about the history a little bit, but how they got started and going back to being Peter being the first Pope and all that stuff and even going back into the gospel where the Bible says upon this rock, shall I build my church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it? Tie that into their beliefs because another time there’s the misinterpretation of that verse that give, I say, Catholics. But most people I’ve met are nominal colleagues. They’re not really practicing Catholics. The ones that I met were practicing. Catholics would use that scripture verse mostly to say, hey, Jesus himself promised that upon this rock and Peter, our first Pope, shall I build my church? So then does not know in the universal. But nearly true church, which is a gross misinterpretation of that scripture, but I’ll shoot it back to you, Shawn.

[Shawn Henly]

Yeah, certainly. So what I foresee from this is I see that the initial founders of this movement, so to speak, they saw it more as a literal expression of. I am going to build this physical system in this physical location and then you have Peter here and then they place Saint Peter as the head of that church. You know the founder, so to speak. Now of course they claim Jesus Christ, the initiator of all this, but they call him Saint Peter as the real head of that church. And so. I agree with your stance as well that what this first really in in essence would mean. Is that it talks more about the spiritual sense of the rock, not the physical interpretation as the founders of the Catholic Church were talking about, or these people who brought about the Catholic Church. Doctrines were talk.

[MCG]

Oh yeah, definitely. And I, of course, the Bible mentioned that upon this rock, which is pointing to Jesus, shall I build my church? But let’s go into this because expression concern in your ministry, Sean, and even the conservative Christian side, what would be your thoughts on the recent emergence of support and increased membership of the Roman Catholic? Search.

[Shawn Henly]

Yes, thank you for asking the question. This is, I believe this is a very important subject at hand. You know realistically for a very long time. There has been a I’m going to have to go a little bit off track here because for the timeline it makes sense. I would need to go back a bit, but realistically, after you know the Reformation and all of that, you know for the entirety of Christianity we’ve seen, there’s been a clear distinction there has been. Fundamentalism, which is, you know, holding to the fundamentals of the faith. And then you have liberalism, which is, you know, there is no final authority, there’s nothing. It’s just a clear cut distinction that changed in the 1900s. Move around to the 19 late 1800, eighteen 80s and such. You have people coming in trying to merge the core fundamentals and the liberalistic. Apologies and so Fast forward to the 1950, the 1960s we had what was known as well, not 1950s, sorry 1960s and 1970s. During that period was known as a period of the Jesus Revolution and pretty much this entire and that would be a whole topic from a podcast, but that is. Very, very large movement pretty much in and of itself. And what we saw during the Jesus Revolution was we saw a lot of youth who were tired from their perspective, at least were tired of the legalistic nature of the fundamentalists. Parents and church leaders who were trying to tie them down from the direct opposition, the modernists and the modernist churches, modernist viewpoints, modernist society such as so forth. And so because of this, there was a large rebellion, so to speak, and really turning away from that conservative nature over to a more modernistic evangelical side of. Thing. And bringing that into the question, really where you mentioned about the increase in membership and emergence of support during this change, we saw two things that happened when a lot of these youth and the generation that came that those children grew up and now they’re in their 40s and whatnot pretty much what we saw. Is we see a rise of support, the people of the modernists, the ecumenical views, their ecumenical views are the same views held during the Second Vatican Council, Vatican Council, #2 linking the bridge between Protestants and the Roman Catholic Church. Hey, you know, it’s not a big deal. You know, I mean, sure, we have our youth. Great. Sure. You know, we pray to Mary, but you know, in our hearts we have the same feelings. You know, we still believe in the same God and whatnot. And so, because of the lack of the fundamental beliefs and the rebellion that came out from that revolution, so to speak, it led to more people leaning on to Roman Catholicism. And that’s where we have a lot of the ecumenical and PCM industry have many ecumenical people. Many churches are going ecumenical. They’re allowing ecumenical music. And whatnot into the churches. So that is 1 area where we’re seeing the emergence of support in so-called conservative Christian churches. Realistically, even without it directly being at Roman Catholic people, you know these are people who are involved in linking the bridge from completely conservative people over to Roman Catholicism. Then because of the people who are tired of seeing the shift of Christianity into what we have now is progressive. Christianity, the LGBT Christians, if you. And people are very tired of that. So we have a large group, especially with many influencers in the conservative Christian sphere who are now going back to, as I mentioned earlier, what are the core tenants of Roman Catholicism, which is sacred tradition. They see the Orthodox values and they go back and say, hey. You know, because one of the things that fires the conservative and and I’m speaking in terms of Christian, I’m speaking in. Terms of conservatives. In terms of the word conservative, it means holding to your values, holding to your beliefs, and so when you have something in Christianity. That is, you know, progressing progressing progressing because of the shift that I just mentioned, they want something that’s traditional, they want something that has stood the test of time if you would and they saw Roman Catholicism as one who’s still sticking with the tradition shows. Some go wrong. Station of it doesn’t shake. The core foundation is held on very steadfastly to the traditional view and the music and everything is all traditional. No rock, rock or anything like that. And so we see a shift in that direction too. So that is my thoughts really. And I’m seeing pretty much how this is in essence a counter reformation, if you would a counter reformation, which has pretty much the romes way instead of hunting down people and the longing people saying, hey, you know the Roman Catholic Church is back. They’re hunting down people, which is what they used to do many centuries ago to the. Of all densities, pretty much they used to hunt them down. Many of the early Christians used to be hunted down by Rome, and now this is kind of their way of coming back into relevance. Maintaining that control bridge everything is recommended. And that’s really where things are today.

[MCG]

Yeah. How does this tie into your ministry? Because we talk about cross crusaders. You have some YouTube videos out there and stuff like that, and you have some coming up. Tell us about that.

[Shawn Henly]

Yeah, certainly. So tied up with this right now our history, you know pretty much we believe that we must reach out to the law, but personally it is my conviction and the conviction of those that work across the state and we personally. Believe that very. Very wholeheartedly that it is important that not only should we reach out to the law, but we should have. And materials available to those who come seeking the truth. It’s one thing because Christ said go either for and make disciples of all mankind. You know, I believe for us to have make disciples. It’s not just about having people pray a prayer and attend your church. It’s about giving them the information, giving them the resources. Really question and learn and grow in the Lord so that they would become strong men and women of the Lord being able to discern these things as well as your spiritually and one of the projects we’re working on right now is a truth prevalence, which is a docu series. And then to show Professor. Issues and non Christians that much of what’s happening today in Christianity is not biblical Christianity, but instead a counterfeit Christianity. We are right now in season one, pretty much or I guess, season one. Right now, the docu series right now we are exposing how the Roman Catholic Church has infiltrated and corrupted. Christianity. And we’re having five seasons for really in total for this docu series right now, season one will be focusing on the King James Bible how and King James Bible is God’s purpose to preserve words for the English speaking people. And pretty much we cover the entire history of the translations, the translation performance King James Bible. We covered the Geneva Bible. What led to the initiation and creation of the King James Bible. You know, pretty much we cover about what studies work, which were the controversial figures involved in the creation of the corrupt manuscripts and whatnot. And then from there. Uncover. You know, because there’s a lot. Of plays that. Let’s kind of force that were not true so. To show evidence and documentation to show that it is true that what their plan and intentions were sinister. And it’s not just made-up. And after that we show how many down the line in the lineup of episodes we show that and then how many of these manuscripts which turned up into diety, the American Bible Society of the United Bible Society. Ended up turning into these modern translations that we have. Day and pretty much we cover in the season finale, you know, we go through every single English translation available and we authoritatively prove, hey, based on the information, the manuscripts we showed that you that were corrupt and these translations made from these manuscripts. We can therefore authoritatively prove that these English translations are not. You know, they are not inherent. They should not be considered God’s perfect as their word, and ultimately how James Bible.

[MCG]

Yeah, definitely. And you mentioned a good point. I didn’t mention here. I heard you mention it some time, but I thought these other versions goes through so many revisions that it’s concerning at least. So when does truth prevail it come out?

[Shawn Henly]

Yeah. So first travels as of right now will be airing. That’s the one week airing May 17th at 7:30 PM Eastern. It will be on the Cloud Crusaders YouTube. Channel we always ask everyone to go to shoot for valid.com and if you’re, you know, pretty much asking people to tune in, just go to truthprevalent.com and register there to get the episodes one through 15 directly in your inbox. It will air every Friday. Starting May 17th, same time 7:30 PM Eastern and then it goes all the way down to August 23rd, where we have a season finale live here at the Atlanta area Peachtree Corners Hotel. What we’re doing that finale and that’s going to be a six to 9:00 PM three hours. So the first two hours, 6:00 to 8:00 will be myself and my assistant union Bowers. And you’ll be speaking. Speaking turn speaking on session and an 8 through 9 will be the Q and a pen. So yeah.

[MCG]

Great. Well, folks, that’s May 17th and I’ll encourage you to tune in. I’ll definitely be tuning in and taking a look at that. Alright. You’re listening to the roof and Barriss podcast? We’ll sit down with Sean Henley, founder and CEO of Cross Crusaders. And they have truth prevailed coming out in May 17th. We’ll be right back.

[Jay]

Hi, this is Jay MC G and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to removingbarriers.net and subscribing to receive all things, removing barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at removing barriers.net/donate. Removing barriers, a clear view of the cross. Do you have the desire to earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the Saints? Answers in Genesis can help. They provide biblically sound books, CD’s, DVD’s, home schooling materials, VBS materials, online courses, digital downloads, and the Answers magazine and more. Plus tickets to the Creation Museum and Ark encounter go to the answers. Book store by clicking the link in the description section below. So you too can be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks the reason of the hope that is in you.

[MCG]

Alright, well, you know, many times we can talk about Catholics and what they believe in the history and to some degree it might not be important, but I think this question might be one of the most important question. According to the Roman Catholics, how can someone be reconciled to God?

[Shawn Henly]

Yes. So pretty much your curves can be reconciled, you’ve gone is pretty much through the process of as the Sacrament of Reconciliation, also known as Confession or Penance, you know, pretty much the sacrament as a way for Catholics to confess their sins committed after baptism and receive forgiveness from God. Through the Ministry of the priests. So the key elements of this sacrament include contrition, which is the sincere remorse for sins confession, the act of admitting the sins to the priest, satisfaction of penance, performing a task for prayer to make amends for the sins. And then there’s the absolution which is the priest acting in the name of. Right from giving the set.

[MCG]

Are there any assurance of salvation with all that?

[Shawn Henly]

I don’t see it.

[Jay]

So with all of those things in mind, the question that comes up is how should we witness to a Roman Catholic? Because when you talk about things like contrition and confession of sin, those are biblical things. But the Catholic Church has taken them twisted the meaning. Twisted. How those things come about. So that the person that is seeking to be reconciled to God is led to believe that the only way to be reconciled to God is through the Roman Catholic Church and through their processes and their priests and their people. So there’s a barrier there because when you talk to a Catholic person, generally they have a general. Ending of the verbiage, if you will, the terminology. So we always say that one of the toughest people to witness to are religious people because they know the lingo. They know the words, but their understanding of the words and how God actually brings that about in the life of the believer.

[MCG]

Yeah.

[Jay]

They have a completely different understanding of that. So in your experience, Sean and as you discover in your studies, when you talk to people, what you know about Roman Catholics, how should we, who know the truths of the scriptures, who know the living God, and we know his? How can we witness to a Roman Catholic?

[Shawn Henly]

Yes, certainly. So in terms of from my experience, what I’ve always done is you know really this is where it gets more religion specific because you know the Roman cabinets. Oftentimes when he asks the question, will you go to heaven most of the time, they’re going to say yes, then they’re going to say follow up, say, you know, I did good work. So I don’t need a charity. I do this. I do that now. This is. Normally the real deal here is because ultimately this is where it goes in, you know, while you may believe you may go to heaven because of your good. You know, I say at that point. You know every religion in the world always has some form of work based salvation, intertwined and gaining eternity in heaven. Now how does your stand up, you know? And this is where oftentimes they’re going to get dumped on this. And really, this is where it needs to be cleared. While every other religion everybody else has, you need to do work. You need to do this. You need to do this as a step by step process. There’s not a one in. On faith, but in Bible believing Christianity, it is a one and done faith. All you have to do is believe on the name of the Lord Jesus and thou shalt me say it is accepting the gift of salvation. What Christ did on the 12 that is in essence, all you have to do. There is no you have to go to church. This many times you don’t have to go to this temple and do this or do that and whatnot. There’s no ohh I anger God, you know, I wonder if I’m going to heaven now because I forgot to pray before I ate my food. You know, there is No Fear. It is once you are saved, your salvation is secured for eternity. That is the beauty of bamboo and Christianity. And and when I bring that up that often get some thinking and I pray, you know, because at the end of the day we’ll just message you, you know, we can’t convert the people, we can’t make them believe on the. But it is the work of the Holy Ghost. It is our job to be as compelling as possible with our case. For Christ. But at the end of the day, it’s the Holy Ghost that is the working the heart and the Holy Ghost that is convicting and the Holy Ghost that does the saving. Amen.

[MCG]

Yeah, man to that definitely are interesting to see what you say about this question, because I’m sure all of us here have witnessed to a Roman Catholic here and there before, what do you think it’s necessary for us to adjust the errors of their doctrine when witnessing to them?

[Shawn Henly]

Yes. So pretty much, I believe it is important. That to address it, but not for example. I need words very carefully, yes and no, because you don’t start off your sentence saying you are part of the whole of that. You know you are this you are that you just don’t go on the street corner or in front of a Catholic event and say you are part of the horror of Babylon.

[MCG]

Right.

[Shawn Henly]

Get away from me. So that’s not really compelling. Them to cry is what I would say. You’re deterring them from fight. If you would now at the same time, you should. It because then you just don’t keep quiet and expect. Say in essence, to answer your question, yes it is necessary to address the errors as I mentioned initially, you know you make them think you know, you make them question the narrative being like hey, you know you in your doctrine, you know your doctrine that says, you know, you’ll need to do this, this, this, you have a workspace salvation. What is that really different? What makes you stand out from Islam? What makes you stand out from Hinduism? What makes you stand? Out from Buddhism. You know what makes you center? Only if you pinpoint those things in their religion or in their belief system, and you pinpoint the things in your belief system which is Bible believing. Christianity for us, only then is it going to get them thinking. If you keep everything shallow and just try to present A1 sided argument, you know it’s not really going to work out. In a way, yes. In essence it is necessary to address the errors towards the middle of the conversation, but you don’t scream from the top of your lungs at the very beginning, so that’s not really compelling of your cry.

[MCG]

Yeah, definitely. I think one other thing that we should keep in mind, especially in the. The US that most of the folks we meet will be nominal colleagues. You hardly meet anyone who’s a truly committed Catholic who goes to mass every Sunday. They’re truly given a tie to their church, and they have gone to confession regularly. And all this stuff, most of the folks I run into and I’ve knocked many, many doors. They are nominal Catholics and most of them would just have. A. Shallow view of scripture. Number probably seven years ago now. I knocked on the door and a cat like and yeah, he said you go to church and stuff like that, but I never adjust any of the issues or doctrinal issues of the Catholic Church either simply presented to him the gospel and answer his questions. And that night right in front of his door. He repented, obviously, in the transcript that. Javier and started to come into my church fitfully before he was removed from the area through the military. So in that respect, I didn’t have the address per se. The issues of the Catholic Church because he was just a nominal Catholic. He grew up, you know, his parents took him to the church, and he never really have a real commitment. But then, you know, his mom, he’s thinking a little bit more to witness to her because she is a little bit more ingrained in the college church. And you have to quote UN quote remove a little bit more barriers for.

[Shawn Henly]

MHM.

[MCG]

Her before she can see the cross clearly. But for him it wasn’t so because he was just ohh. OK, this is something we do kind of thing. So yeah, I definitely agree with you on that.

[Jay]

So what are some of the other special considerations? Perhaps that we should keep in mind when we’re talking to Roman Catholics, because, like MCG said, you have those that are die hard Catholics true to the bone, and then you have others that. Quite nominal. I remember talking to a guy who I was witnessing to when I was active duty and he was a professing Catholic and he said Ohh, you know, don’t worry about me if I don’t make it to heaven, all I have to do is talk to Mary because she’s ready and willing to kind of open a back door to let me in to heaven or something along those lines. And I thought, well, that’s a really backward. Way of thinking of not just who Mary was, but salvation, and who Christ is altogether. And So what are some other special considerations when we’re talking about the Catholic faith? Because if I may add this point. Much of what people think is Christianity throughout the world is actually Catholicism. If you talk to a Muslim when you tell them Christian, they think Catholic is Christian and there aren’t any other ones. And So what are some special considerations that we should keep in mind in witnessing the Catholics?

[Shawn Henly]

Yes. So something that we have to always keep in mind. When you know witnessing Catholics and as MCG mentioned, I really appreciate that. Yes, you know, I believe my answers will geared towards because I that’s what I’ve dealt most with, you know, is gearing debates and gearing those kinds of interactions. They are stout, very stout, uptight. That looks like they will die on that hill kind of Catholic. So that is where I got that. But yes, in terms of what we should be paying attention to within the Roman Catholics is again, as I mentioned, you know, really focusing on. Understanding who they are as a person and understanding, you know, are they passive or are they aggressive in their belief system because of their passive? Then just like you mentioned, you know you can just tell them the basic message of the gospel and because they were just religiously following, you know, the basic messages. Of composition. You know they’ll be more inclined to hear out what you’re saying. To a degree, that’s another thing to add. 3. But then you have your aggressive Catholics who are much more geared on dying on that hill. You know, you’ve got to really get your foot in the door with the questioning and really try to get them to think with those thoughts and something that like I mentioned earlier, another pitfall we should be careful to avoid is never. Never. Just, never. Go ahead and try to belittle them for what they believe. Them never try to harass them for what they believe in. You know your goal at the end of the day is not just to turn them away from their belief, it’s to turn them away from their belief system and turn them onto Christ. And ultimately, you know, removing the barriers there and seeing that clear vision of the cost there.

[MCG]

Right.

[Shawn Henly]

That is the ultimate. The goal, and so for that we got to be much more loving, compassionate, whether we see them as a one time encounter.

On a.

[Shawn Henly]

Solving venture or as they might be a co-worker or someone you need on the family, friend or someone you know you will want to hear them out and just speak to them in a much more loving and gracious way just because of the fact. That ultimately you want them to get saved. Pretty much the board will guide.

[MCG]

Yeah.

[Shawn Henly]

Correct.

[Jay]

Yeah, that’s definitely a pitfall, because if you’re talking to someone that you know has a faulty understanding of the gospel and you understand the gospel, you could come across as a know it all, or as a holier than thou or perhaps moan the person over with all of your arguments, without actually listening to them because you already have your answers or your ducks in a row. So that’s a pitfall. Absolutely. Can you think of any other pitfalls that we need to be aware of when witnessing to Roman?

[MCG]

You know, as you think about that, Sean, one thing that come to mind because we have a very faithful pharma card, like who join us on evangelism on a weekly basis. She was actually on the podcast in episode 60 Plus. It was Mary. How were your barriers removed? And if you haven’t listened to that, just generally, you know, give that a listen. But. One thing she always says when she also wanted is that she said as a Catholic that Catholics are so pious at times. And I don’t mean that in a rude way, you. Know. It’s just most of them feel like they have what they need religiously, so they don’t need someone else to come and share the gospel with them and stuff like that. And she said that she didn’t want to hear anybody. She didn’t want some whippersnapper coming to her door. She said she would have slammed the door on anyone, face would come and not gonna do it. Trying to share the gossip with her. But what helped her was a Bible study at work. She went to Bible study. And for the first time, they were going through 1st 70. And you can see where I’m going here and even another Catholic. That is on the fateful soul winning David, how well your barriers removed. He also was a former Catholic and the 1st and 1st and the two verse 5. And. Six seems to be the verse that kind of pinned them down in such a way that sometimes. We overlook the power of scripture when we want to reach people with the gospel, and I’m guilty of this. Sometimes I want to wax eloquent with my words and for the gospel with them rather than to this share with them their word of God. You know, for there is one God and one mediator between God and man, the man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom. Paul to be testifying in due time, she said. When she first read that verse, she felt like the Bible study coordinators picked that verse out because she was caught late, but then they reminded her that, hey, we’re going to the book of. Timothy and that verse hit her like a rock, and David too, said that verse was one of the verse that make him start questioning because if they won God and one mediator between God and men, why do we need the Pope? Or why do we need a high priest? You know all these things. So I guess I say all that to say that I guess the pitfall would be is not. Relying on the power of the Word of God, even with the due explanation, because other time because they’re. They will look at scriptures the old Bible says this. I didn’t know that and dad because the Bible says quick and sharper than and he told it sword. So you know, let’s not overlook that powerful tool that we have as well there.

[Shawn Henly]

Amen. Indeed. As I mentioned earlier, even the work of the conviction is the power of the Holy Ghost. You know, we are just the messengers. And as you mentioned.

[MCG]

Yep.

[Shawn Henly]

Our tool is the word of God and that is why, once again, it’s even more important that we have the final authority that we know what the final authority is. You know, something that a lot of people would question is, well, you have this translation, you have that translation your Protestant denomination, you know, that’s from the perspective of capitalism. They call us protest. And they would say, you know, you have all of these things. Everything is a mess for you. You argue over music, you argue over Bible translation. You argue with this or you or that it’s just a one and done deal. Everything’s in order. Everything’s in place. So again, I agree with you wholeheartedly. And all the more reason why you’re doing season one. It’s all. But why we need to reinstate the final authority in Christianity? It’s not just a fundamental Baptist thing. It is a Christian thing. It is an important aspect for us, especially when we go reaching out people, the lost people, they need to know. This one Bible is the final. Authority you can believe it’s trusted 100% of your life. You don’t have to doubt it one thing.

[MCG]

Definitely. Let me ask you this. I guess this question is kind of going to pin you to the wall, but still at the same time, curious is a believing practicing Catholic biblically save. Why? Yeah, why not? What would you say?

[Shawn Henly]

All right, I’m going to give you point blank answer. A practicing Roman Catholic biblically is not safe because a practicing Roman Catholic. They believe in a work based salvation, meaning there is an addition to the free gift of salvation. That’s like you offering me something for free. And I say for me to obtain. And. You know I need to do this, this, this, and you’re just standing and you’re like Sean, take this from me. I’m giving it to you. Take it. And so for that reason, because biblically, as Bible believing Christian and as a Bible believer, you know, in essence, you know, all we have to do is believe on the name of the Lord Jesus. That shall be, say, confess with your mouth and. Will be saved and ultimately that’s all. This is just a one and done deal and ultimately some scripture here is decisions to 8 or by grace. Are you saved through faith and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God. Does that perfectly summarizes all that there is, it kicks it right on the head.

[MCG]

Well.

[Shawn Henly]

Because in Catholicism you got to do something. It is the gift of God. We are saved by grace through faith, and that ultimately, that’s scripture right. There suffices that answers the whole question.

[MCG]

Ma’am, let me give you an opportunity so you can tell folks so they can reach you how they can get ahold of cross crusaders once again before we let you go.

[Shawn Henly]

Certainly. Certainly yes. So to get a hold of us across crusaders for any general needs and just contact me at, it’s Sean, that’s ITS and then my name Shawn at crosscrusaders.com, but they can reach me via e-mail. That would be the best way or you could just type up my name on Facebook and contact me on Messenger. And if you do want to register for the viewing of truth prevail with season one, just head over to tweets, prevailed dot. And just go down and press register now. And that’s the big black button and you will be able to get all episodes one through 15 directly in your inbox and you can share that on and whatnot. And we do hope that it’s the worst thing to all of us. We bring back the movement to reinstate the final authority. God’s word is the life of people in church.

[MCG]

All right, Sean, it was indeed a pleasure. Thank you for joining us on the removing various podcasts.

[Shawn Henly]

It was wonderful. Thank you.

[Jay]

Thank you so much for listening to the Removing Barriers podcast. Make sure to rate us everywhere you listen to podcasts, including Spotify, Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, or Stitch. Removing barriers, a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

Thank you for listening. To get a hold of us to support this podcast or to learn more about removing barriers, go to removingbarriers.net. This has been the removing Barriers podcast we attempted to remove barriers so that we all can have a clear view of the cross.