Episode 159

Popular charismatic/Pentecostal preacher TD Jakes has been implicated as a regular friend of music producer Sean Combs and a participant in the infamously deviant parties he was known to throw and host. He has denied all allegations, but the accusation alone is enough to send shockwaves through the country, since he has a following number in the millions. What should Christians make of the allegations? Should we even care about it if we believe that he is a false teacher? In this episode of the Removing Barriers podcast, we address these question and many underlying ones. If you ask any sound preacher about TD Jakes, they would caution you from consuming his content or sitting under his preaching, but because he has a massive reach, perhaps the argument could be made that the allegations sully the name of Christ in the eyes of the world. How should genuine bible believers respond? Join us as we discuss all these issues and more on this episode on the Removing Barriers podcast.

[MCG]

Before I get to what my real impression of him is, my most charitable impression of him is that he’s not a preacher. He’s a motivational speaker.

[Jay]

Thank you for tuning in to the Removing Barriers podcast. I’m Jay. And I’m MCG. And we’re attempting to remove barriers so we can all have a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

This is episode 159 of the Removing Barriers Podcast, and in this episode, we’ll be talking about Thomas Dexter Jakes, better known as TD Jakes and the recent accusations against him.

[Jay]

Hi, this is Jay. MCG and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to removingbarriers.net and subscribing to receive all things Removing Barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at removingbarriers.net/donate, removing barriers a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

All right, Jay, let’s get into it. Let’s talk about the background of the accusations.

[Jay]

The accusations against TD Jakes came out in late 2023 as a result of the accusations that came out in late 2023 against the rapper. Producer Sean Diddy come. In late 2003, R&B singer Cassie Ventura accused Combs of an inappropriate relationship. Allegations of sexual assault and sexual abuse that occurred throughout their relationship. When she was with him, he settled out of court quietly, but subsequently she released. Audio tapes, video recordings and even phones with information on them. Providing more information regarding the allegations against him. But those devices also incriminate TD Jakes, the phone that she turned over to authorities, or that she made public belonged to Kim Porter, who was Sean Combs’s former partner. I don’t think he ever married her, but his former partner. She died in 2018 and somehow Ventura had her phone, and so she released the phone. All of the items that we. Or on the phone the drives the videos, the audio tapes, and all of those contain recordings and evidence that incriminate TD Jakes. The accusation there, of course, is that. He has a long standing record. There’s much evidence against him for having not just attended, but participated in Sean Combs’s. Parties now I knew him as Puff Daddy growing up, and so I keep leaning to refer to him as Puff Daddy because that was his name in the 90s. But anyway, Sean Combs is known in the music industry for being quite the Wild Partier, very sexually deviant. If you’re going to a party at Sean Combs’s. Everyone knows what this is about. This is an open secret in both Hollywood and in the music industry, and the accusations against TD Jakes is that he has gone to those parties and has engaged. In both consensual and non consensual sexual relations with male escorts and other men at these parties, of course this is a problem because, number one, it’s said and #2 he is purported to be a man of God. He’s supposed to be an upstanding man in the Community Times Magazine. Named him America’s most prominent pastor. And yet. There are accusations, salacious accusations against him that he is engaging in homosexual activity outside of his marriage to his wife, whom he’s been married to for decades with these male escorts, both consensual and non consensual. And there’s also the chance that he would be. Of course, this is all alleged, but if it turns out to be true, he could be prosecuted for human trafficking, along with Diddy Combs, because the idea is that all of these parties were happening in the sort of Jeffrey Epstein type scenario where young men and women were brought to these parties, both willingly. And unwillingly, and forced to engage in sexually deviant behavior. And many prominent preachers, artists, politicians. You name it. Very powerful people with a lot of influence are found to have gone to these parties, allegedly, and all of the evidence is in the drives and on the phone that is in Cassie Ventura’s possession that she has turned over to the authorities, apparently.

[MCG]

Let me just add also that as of the 25th of March 2024 PDiddy or Puff Daddy or whatever his name is PDiddy.

[Jay]

Yeah.

[MCG]

Homes in both Los Angeles and Miami was guess I should have rated or was at least search warrants were served by the HSI, which is the investigative arm of the DHS for sexual misconduct in human trafficking. So this is the guide, TD Jakes of Bishop. Alton Court Bishop TD Jakes asserting himself with if you’re like me and you don’t know much about these guys, at least TD Jakes is a senior pastor. Of a mega church in Dallas, TX called the Potters House. The Potters House average attendance is some 17,000 weekly. Of course Jim mentioned in late 2023. The accusations came out. Yeah, but the important thing here though, you know, we live in a country where you have the privilege. And the right to be innocent until proven guilty in the court of. Of course, though, these are just accusations against TD Jakes, and quite honestly, they’re just accusations against Puff Daddy as well. Mm-hmm. So maybe even other side in scale. Jay, do you believe these accusations are true?

[Jay]

Well, MCG, you are a shining beacon of hope. You hold to innocent until proven guilty. That’s very magnanimous of you. But I thought I have to say that. I believe that the accusations are true. That’s just my humble opinion, not that anyone cares. Everyone has an opinion and nobody cares. But the reason I think that those accusations are more than likely true is because of who TD Jakes has shown himself to be. Over the years, I do believe. And I’m not hesitant at all to say that he is a heretic. He does not preach the true gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, and yet he has such an incredible following, an incredible influence. He has led many, many, many, many, many people. This Trey and his gospel message, along with his actions over the years, would predisposes, in my mind that he more than likely committed those things that are alleged against him. And I say that because I remember how prominent and solid we all fought Ravi Zacharias was. And when we heard of the accusations against him that came out after his death, everyone was shocked to the core. But when I heard the accusations against Ravi Zacharias, it didn’t surprise me. What happened was that I remember. Something that I didn’t pay any mind to several months prior. He was at some type of apologetics Christian Q&A thing where one of the Co hosts or one of the other men on the stage with him made the ridiculous claim that Jesus. Body dysmorphic or gender dysphoria because he is God in human flesh and the speaker was attempting to convince people in the audience that Jesus understands the modern day hot topic of transit ideology and gender dysphoria and all these things that we’re dealing with today simply because he was God in the flesh. And so he was not. Comfortable in his flesh. And so he understands gender dysphoria, body dysmorphic disorders and things of that nature, and Ravi Zacharias sat next to him and did not refute it. He did not speak up and when it was his turn to address the same question. He said nothing to refute what the man had said. And so at the time, I thought, huh? That’s odd. It’s odd that he wouldn’t stand up and refute that ridiculous idea. Ohh, but maybe you know he plans to do so later. Or maybe he just feels like this isn’t the right time. It’s Ravi zacharias. He’s solid. No problem. Didn’t think anything of it. Closed the chapter on that book. You know about my merry way until. Several months later, when I heard of his death and heard of the accusations against him, the first thing that came to my mind was his failure to stand up for Christ at that particular juncture, and I realized that there were red flags even back then that we all missed. I certainly missed. And so when I see all of the red flags that TD Jakes has put up over the years. It predisposes me to believe, and I probably shouldn’t think, this way, I will freely admit that, but it predisposes me to believe that these accusations are true. And so let me just soften it and say if it turns out that these accusations are true, it would not surprise me in the least.

[MCG]

Alright, so if I were to answer that question, I would say that and to use the old adage or cliche you know, if someone should hold a gun to my head. You say, hey, you have to true or false can be anywhere in the middle. I I would say most likely that these accusations are false. I will say that I believe that they are about 50.01% falls. So I’m saying that they are 49.99% true. So I’m under. And one of the reasons why I’m on the fence is because of who TG Jake is. Obviously, he’s rich. Obviously he’s famous. Obviously, the person who is making the accusation against him, they are sinners, their flesh too. And the Bible clearly teaches love of money, root of all evil. So I can’t reload the fact that. They could be saying these things just to get a hefty payday, whether is.

[Jay]

That’s possible.

[MCG]

PDP or TD Jakes. So you know I’m on the fence, but that doesn’t mean I don’t have issues and that doesn’t mean I agree with TD Jakes. Some of the issues I’m gonna adjust later, but I’ll. Adjust this one. Now he’s quote, UN quote, the pastor Bishop, and he’s good friends with a rapper P Diddy. Now, if my pastor would say hey. Seven CG. One of my close friends is PD and I go to his parties and stuff like that. There will be issues either I won’t be going to that church the next week or.

[Jay]

And that’s an understatement, yeah.

[MCG]

I’ll be bringing something against their, you know, to the greater congregation about the possibility of, you know, voting out the past or whatever the case may be. You know, someone who has a title of a pastor and someone who has a title of a rapper doesn’t seem to really fit. And I thought you’re going there to share the gospel with this man, but he wouldn’t be at a party.

[Jay]

Especially not a P Diddy party.

[MCG]

Anyways, of course, the Bible and the 1st Thessalonians 522 abstain from all appearance of evil, so the appearance principle here is being violated by TD Jakes. Of course, James 4, verse four, he adulterers and adulteresses. Knowing not that friendship with the world is enmity with God and Whosever differ will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. And of course you can think about many many other scriptures by with others. Makes life and darkness don’t be unequally yoked together. All these things. The Bible teaches separation. And I know at the time, outside of the circles, the word separation is a curse word. But the word separation. Is a biblical principle. The Bible teaches against separation, so TD ***** is right now is not separating itself from the world, and that’s a it’s you. If you want to call it the red flag, that’s definitely there. And also the other problematic area is this TD Jakes response. I would have been lot better and probably not even did an episode if TD Jakes did not respond to this accusation. But however on Christmas. Please, December 24th, 2023. TD Jakes had a message. It was like an hour and 40 minutes long and just full disclaimer, certain point of the message. He adjusted the accusation kind of said he’s not gonna adjust it but kind of still adjust it and stuff like that. Before I started researching. For this episode, I knew the name TD Jakes, but I didn’t know anything about TD Jakes, so I did some digging in and stuff like that. Listen to some of your messages to see what I can discern about this. And if you find a message that’s less than an hour in 30 minutes, that’s one of these short messages. So I listened to his messages on double speed just to get some idea what he’s talking about. But hey, here’s the first clip of TD Jakes response, and what he has to.

[TD Jakes]

Say about this. Don’t. Please do me a favor and stop worrying about me. And give God some praise and honor and glory. I can feel you. I can feel you. Would you just give God the glory and praise and go ahead and lift him up? I am fire. I’m good. I’m good. I’m the man for the job. I’m good. Come on. Come on. Give God some praise.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[TD Jakes]

I can feel you. Relax, give God some praise. We’re not gonna let the devil take. Over our service.

[Unknown]

No, no, no. No, no, no, no, no. Hi.

[TD Jakes]

Let the rain stop me. I’m not gonna let the weather stop me. And I’m sure not gonna let the light. Stop it. I’m gonna give God. Extra prayer. Y’all looking at me like you, my physician trying to see if I’m good. I’m good. You can’t do this 50 years. It ain’t been in a. Fight. And been in a storm and have been up under attack. I’m fine. That is, with me is more than all those that are against me. I’m fine. Glory to God. Hallelujah. Let’s lift up the name of Jesus. Thank you for loving me. Thank you for praying for me. Thank you for being concerned about me. I can feel you. I can feel you. I’m OK. Come on. Come on. I’m good. I’m good. I’m good. I’m good. I’m good. Cause I know the truth. When you know the truth, you ain’t got to be nervous. You ain’t got to be uneasy. You ain’t got to be in trouble. Come on. Come on, come on. Come on, come on. Would you help? Paul, welcome our Internet audience and streaming online. Come on, give God a praise for all of this. Thank you for tuning in. Logging in, looking in, praying in watching, in discerning in whatever brought you in. I was glad that you were here. And we’ll greet you in the name of the Lord one more time for our streaming audience. My God.

[MCG]

Alright, so you can tell from that very first clip of a message. That’s TD Jakes Church that what kind of church it is. Clearly Pentecostal type church, so I’ve never been to his. Church. But the fact that he says I’m good. I’m fine. I’m good over and over. May indicate that he’s not, but I’m no psychologist, so I’m just gonna leave it right there. It just interesting that he constantly saying he’s good. At least in my mind. And if you have to look at the video to me, I would say I didn’t think he was good. But anyways, I just want to play that because after that he says this.

[TD Jakes]

If anything, I feel closer to the Lord than I ever have. Hallelujah. I feel his presence with me right now. The Anointing of God is in this place. Amen. Keep it moving. The worst that could happen if if everything was true, all I got to do is repent sincerely from my heart. There’s enough power in the blood to cover all kinds of sins because I don’t care what it is. The blood would. Fix it. But I ain’t got to repent about this. All I got to do is step over top of it and keep on going on. Glory to God, I’m not in trouble. I’m talking about the power of the blood. Amen. Thank you, Jesus. I have used it and I will use it again, but I ain’t gotta use it for that. Thank you, Jesus. Thank you. Jesus. Whatever. I need it. It’s available to me, and it’s available to you. And you can have it when you need it. But you don’t have to plead the blood when you didn’t. Do the crime.

[MCG]

All right. See, I have a lot to say about that, but.

[Jay]

Me too.

[MCG]

I’ll let you go first.

[Jay]

OK, obviously he’s not fine. Obviously he’s not good as he claims he keeps saying that he’s not gonna address it. He’s not gonna let it bother him. He’s not gonna fill in the blank. And yet he’s spending all of this time with the emotional organ in the back, doing exactly what he said. He’s not going to do. I find his response a little bit problematic. Not a little bit, a lot, a bit problematic because the way that he talks about the blood of Christ, it’s almost like a trinket that you pull out when you’re in trouble. And if something happens, whoops, no problem. I could just claim the blood of Christ and just walk over. And I don’t think any Christian who’s been genuinely saved. By Christ views the blood that way. Views his sacrifice on our behalf. That way, like a sort of lucky rabbits foot or a an Irish Clover or charm or something that you could pull out and whip out whenever you’re in trouble because you put yourself in a position allegedly where people can make these accusations about you. So he has a very flippant. It seems to me, in my opinion, of course I don’t know him personally and so I don’t want to come down with a hammer and be harsh, but it sounds like he has a very flippant understanding and appreciation of the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ on the cross on behalf of us for our. Sins. Thing that I noticed that he said is that when he said, this probably goes along with having a very trivial appreciation for the blood of Christ and for the sacrifice that he’s made for us on the cross. But when he said, you know, all I have to do is sincerely believe from my heart and it’s enough. To cover these things that reeks to me of this very popular idea that took place in Christianity and. The maybe the 60s, seventies, 80s, nineties where there was a very flippant and very light shallow understanding of what it means to come to Christ. Ohh well, just ask Jesus into your heart and mean it from your heart and pray this prayer from your heart. And if you really mean it, then you can be saved and you can be washed of your sin and. I’m thinking of all of the different. Major Crusades that have taken place in recent decades where you have thousands upon thousands, 10 thousands, and this is not an overestimation. Hundreds of thousands of people who probably believed this and prayed that little prayer and meant it from their hearts. But then, if you do a survey and find out where these people are 5. Ten years later, they are no different, and they’re even in the world and perhaps some of them, even worse than they were when they had this faulty understanding of the gospel and of repentance and of Saul. Nation, it sounds to me like he is no different in his speech, and perhaps I’m reading into it because I know some of the things that he’s preached over the years. I know he’s definitely one of the prosperity gospel preachers. He’s definitely one of those people where he’s even blaspheming God and said things along the lines of God. Owing you or God somehow indebted to you as a result of his false preaching, and it just everything that he said in that response reeked of that. So that’s a very problematic response if you’re a preacher of the gospel and you don’t have an understanding of the most fundamental. Tenet of Christianity then why wouldn’t we believe that you’re a false teacher? You’re a heretic and more than likely these things that they’re saying about you were true. I hate to sound so harsh, but what would you say about his response to the accusations there?

[MCG]

Well, we’ll definitely won’t get into whether or not he’s true or false either false, which, or not later on down, but just to respond to his response to the accusation. And he said, and I’m going to paraphrase, I’ll, I’ll quote it as closely as possible, he said. Worse, that could happen if everything were true. All I had to do is to repent sincerely from the heart. There is enough power in the blood, right? So I’m going to.

[MCG]

Kind. Of split it up in two areas. Because firstly, he’s a married man, so I’m going to look at it from a family angle and secondly, he is, quote UN quote, a pastor of a church.

[Jay]

OK.

[MCG]

I’m gonna look at it from that angle. OK, alright. So the worst that could happen to him According to him is that the only thing you have to do is repent sincerely from my heart. No, I’m not Privy to his private discussion with his wife. But according to the Internet, and again, you can believe everything, anything is true. He has been married for 42. Is. I can’t imagine his wife knowing these accusations are true. His wife will go to him and said no, honey, you have repented and everything is good.

[Jay]

Mm-hmm.

[MCG]

I just can’t imagine any woman out there. We’ll look at their husband after an accusation of gay interaction and an interaction with mortal woman and all he has to do is repent and the wife will be OK with it. So from a family point of view, I’m. Like something doesn’t add up there. Yeah, but again, also going back to what you said, this is false preaching to tell people that, hey, when you get saved, God is going to remove the fruit of your sins. You know, God may save us. From the consequence, and I’m talking about the eternal, the spiritual consequence and penalty for our sins. But he doesn’t remove the fruit of our sins. Hmm. Yeah. At times he might show grace. But he doesn’t move the fruit of the sin, so if you go there and murder someone and someone else come along and share the gospel with you and you got saved, the judge is not gonna know. Say. Ohh. Well, no Mr. murderer. Because you have turned your life over to Jesus. You don’t have to spend any time in jail or be punished for your sin. That’s not how it works. 80 and I’m thinking knows that, so I have a problem with that, because he’s saying, Oh well, there’s not gonna come of it. I’m gonna get into the later. But of course, numbers 32 and verse 23. The latter part of it, say, be sure. Your sin will find you out. Dilation 6-7 says be not deceived. God is not mocked for whatever man suit that he shall also reap. I’m baffled here where he was. Oh, well, also you have to do is plead the blood. Think about it. Think about David sending it back schieber. And I’m going to read a lengthy passage here because I think it’s important. Second time was 12. Verse 1 to 14 and he reads and the Lord sent Nathan unto David, and he came unto him, and said unto him, there were two men in one city, the one rich and the other poor. The rich man had exceeded many flocks and herds, but the poor man had nothing, save 1 Ulam, which he had brought and nourished up. And he grew up together with him. And with his children, he did eat of his own meat and drank of his own cup and lay in his bosom and was under him as a daughter. This man had a pet, and there came a traveller unto the rich man, and he spared to take his own flock and of his own herd to jest. For the wayfaring man that was come unto him. But took the poor man’s lamb and just sit for the man that was. Come on. To him, and David’s anger was greatly kindled against the man, and he said to Nathan, as the Lord liveth, the man that had done this thing shall surely die, and he shall restore the lamb fourfold, because he did this thing, and because he had no pity, and Nathan said to David, Thou art. The man thus said the Lord God of Israel. I annoyed the king over Israel and I delivered the out of the hand of Saul and I gave Dee thy master’s house and thy master’s wife in thy bosom, and gave thee the House of Israel and of Judah. And if that had been too little, I’d moreover have given unto thee such and such things. Wherefore hast thou. Despise the commandment of the Lord to do evil in his sight, though us kill you, ride a Hittite with the sword thou has taking his wife to be thy wife, and has slain him with the sword of the children of. Amen. Now, dear food, the food shall never depart from thine house, because thou hast despised me and has taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife. Thus says the Lord, behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thy own house, and I will take thy wise before thine eyes and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wife in the sight of this son, for thou there is secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun. And David, Senator, Nathan, I have sinned against the Lord and Nathan, Senator David. The Lord had put away. Thy sin, thou shall not die hope be it, because by this deed thou has given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blasphemy the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. Now if you go to Psalm 51, where David repented of his sin of murder and of adultery and everything that’s outlined here in this passage that I read, I don’t think TD Jakes. We painted like David we painted.

[Jay]

Yeah, there’s a stark.

[MCG]

Difference. Wash me thoroughly and let me go disarm 51. Have mercy on me. O God, according to thy love and kindness, according to the multitude of thy tender mercies, blackout my transgression. Wash me thoroughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sins. If I acknowledge my transgression and my sins ever before me against thee and thee only if I sin. I’ve done this evil in thy fight that don’t match with justify when thou speak it. And be clear when thou judge. Yes, competed repentance with TD Jakes. Well, if he were true, all I ask them to do is plead the blood. Yet the Lord said of David, that the sword shall never depart of that house because of thy sin. So therefore the Lord is punishing him because of the fruit of his sin. Not only that, the child. Guide Evil will be against thee. Your wife are going to be taken against thee. Remember David’s son went in under his concubines, tried to take over his Kingdom. All these were punishment for David Finn. Yet he repented. So tell me, teeny Jakes. Yes, you repent.

[Jay]

Absalom Yep.

[MCG]

But why do you think that you’re not going to be suffering the consequence for your sin? I’m. Gold. But anyway, that’s on the family front because I can’t imagine his wife going to say, OK, yes, OK. And the Bible make it clear, of course, you still don’t have to pay for your thing, at least physically. Spiritually. The Lord has removed the consequences of sin. But physically, if you commit a crime, you’re gonna do the. Time. TD Jakes, but anyway this is just accusation. No. He’s also, quote UN quote, senior pastor. Again, I’m not Privy of any conversation that you will have. And also he have a ministerial staff. He has deacons.

[Jay]

He also has a ministry where seminary of some sort. He has one of those as well that many people under his leadership in that way as well.

[MCG]

Something along the line. But anyway he come across as untouchable, arrogant. You mentioned he’s using Jesus, the church as aspirin. You have headache. Let me reach for a pill. So they said it can go away. No, I’m gonna get into this. Projects on his website thepottershouse.org. He has something called the Deacons ministry. I’m just going to read some stuff here from his website verbatim. The partner sales Deacon ministry ordered the able leadership of Bishop, TD Jakes and our pastor in charge, Pastor Dublins, are serving and excellence of Spirit and striving to meet. Ever growing needs of the church and its attendant ministries, our goal is to be the most responsible, effective and respective ministry at the Potters House and to take ownership in supporting our church mission. We are. Voice and the hand that encourages people to change their lives with hope, comfort and peace, commitment, and the Deacon of the partner’s house. We are committed to the following core values, faithfulness, and the faithfulness they have. Praying and fasting must be totally committed and loyal to Bishop Jakes and the Deacon. Ministry influencing generation by the power of vision and by muddling the way dedicated to my assignments with at least 80%. Participation. So that means they must be there at 2:00, Wednesday nights, two Sundays and one Saturday each month, encouraging personal growth by developing and empowering from within, capitalizing on our strength of ethnic diversity and teamwork, leaving a legacy of hope and promise to future deacons operate the ministry professionally and efficiently support bishops. Initiative physically and financial. Only and then went on to talk about accountability. Being accountable to every word and action. Be a role model in the way we serve everything, treating each other with dignity and respect. Support the part of health ministries to achieve the potential, and they talk about being teachable. Provide the best servant leadership program, increase communication and information. Having competent, responsible people, building a strong team, improving the ministry by improving ourselves. And then they quoted part of First Corinthians 1558, and then they talk about are they in the Deacons and deacons in training and all this stuff? No. On the surface you might say, hey, there’s nothing wrong with that. But you know what I noticed with this? There’s no call to be told. Really accountable and totally committed to the Lord. There’s no first Timothy Chapter 3 requirements, but they make it clear that you need to be totally committed to Bishop TD Jakes. That to me is problematic, right? And again, if you want to put on the surface and say, of course if you’re Deacon in the church, you want to be supportive and committed to the pastor, yes. But before you’re supported and committed to the pastor, I would say you need to be supported and committed to the Lord and to his word. Right. So to me that’s problematic, but I’m don’t want to make too much out of it. But anyway, the Bible make it clear the qualification of deacons in First Timothy 3. You know, likewise, must the deacons be graves, not double tongue not giving too much wine, not greedier. Fits the Luger, whole elements, your faith in poor conscience. Let those also. First we prove. Let them use the office of Deacon be found blameless. Even so must their wives be grave, slow slanders. You can read 1st 73 verse 8 again. As I said, there’s no. All to be committed to God, but they must be committed to TD Jakes. So I’m saying all that to say this actually before I go into that, let me look at the Ministry of Staff, because this is not a problematic area. So according to this same website, thepottershouse.org, you can go to the menus and find the ministerial staff or the pastoral staff, they or they call it Bishop, TD Jakes, senior Pastor Mrs. Seretta, a Jakes, which is his wife first. 80 she also preaches at times Patrick E Winfield, the second pastor. Word. Let’s look at Cheryl Brady, Brady Pastor, North Dallas. You have his daughter, Sarah. And I guess this is Tori.

[Jay]

Her husband.

[MCG]

Her husband, Roberts, Jakes Roberts. She is the assistant pastor. And then you have Corey Jakes. Might be his daughter or sister or something. Associate pastor. And then Cynthia James, another associate pastor and Pastor Dublin, which was mentioned also associate pastor and then Valerie Compton, associate pastor. So of course he here. He has a mixture of female and male pastors. Again, I don’t care what secular Christianity. Quote UN quote says the Bible. Make it clear that a woman cannot be. Ah. Pasta.

[Jay]

The scripture is crystal on.

[MCG]

That the Bible is clear on that. So anyway, so of course he has a ministry of staff. He has deacons. Right to me. Me. Firstly, TD Jakes did not show any semblance of being broken by this sin. No, I agree. We don’t know if it’s true. We don’t know if the accusation is true, so if it’s not true TJ, just say, hey, the accusation against me are false. Leave it as that. When you say that if they were true, all they have to do is do this. There’s no brokenness there. You’re not broken at all for your sins. To me, as Jay said, you’ve been tripping about it. So one, there’s no brokenness. 2 You have no accountability. I can’t think of anybody who has accountability, who will say, well, the only thing I have to do is this. That means you’re not accountable to your wife because your wife obviously going to accept your deviant behavior because you repent, so there’s no accountability. And because of all these things, you have No Fear of the consequences. You’re not gonna be removed from your position. Whatever you did this, you’re gonna be the senior pastor. Tomorrow. But they’re not, because there’s no one to remove you. You’re still going to be, I guess, quote, UN quote. The man of your house because. Your wife obviously got to forge. If you, that’s how we come across to me so.

[Jay]

Or what did he say? His response? He’s the man for the job. So not just the. Man of his house. But the man for the job as well.

[MCG]

Well, you know, you’re not broken. You have no accountability and hence you have fear of no consequences. But I will leave it there. But to me, TJ have totally wrong attitude towards this. And because you have the wrong access towards this. Again, I would say I’m also learning that accusations are false, but these are serious clearing issues.

[Jay]

Not broke, yeah.

[MCG]

Of a response to an accusation. But anyways, you listen to the roving various podcast we are talking about TD Jakes and the accusations against him. We’ll be right.

[Jay]

Hi, this is Jay. MCG and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to removingbarriers.net and subscribing to receive all things, removing barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at removingbarriers.net/donate. Removing barriers, a clear view of the cross.

Do you have the desire to earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the Saints? Answers in Genesis can help. They provide biblically sound books, CD’s, DVD’s, home schooling, materials VS materials online courses. Digital downloads and the Answers magazine and. More plus tickets to the Creation Museum and Ark encounter go to the answers bookstore by clicking the link in the description section below so you too can be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks the reason of the hope that is in you.

[MCG]

Alright, Jay, I think I know your response to this because I think you already yeah alluded to it, but it is Bishop, TD Jakes, a sound preacher. Or not.

[Jay]

TD Jakes is not a sound teacher. In fact, I would not hesitate to label him a heretic. He is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. He is leading men and women astray and he is not to be trusted and no one should turn to him. For biblical doctrine or biblical teaching of any sort, TD Jakes is. One that has the account. Name of the world behind him, the likes of Oprah Winfrey and others like Tyler Perry and many others who affirm and promote and are in cahoots with him. And he has proven himself to be a false teacher by his adherence. To Oneness Pentecostal type theology, he believes. That God does not exist as the Trinity. He believes in something called modalism, where you have one God and he expresses himself in different modes. So. There is no God the Father, God the son, God the Holy Spirit. It’s more like at this particular moment, God is manifesting as man. That would be Jesus, and this particular moment he’s manifesting as the spirit that would be the Holy Spirit at this particular moment, he’s manifesting as. The father or God Almighty, and that is obviously not an Orthodox understanding of the Godhead. I do not believe that you can be a Christian and not understand God in three persons. The Trinity. I don’t think you have to be able to explain it and be able to tease out. All of the nuance, but if you do not believe that Jesus is God, fully man, fully God, 100% of the time. Who exactly is your savior? If God declares an Isaiah that he is the Savior and there is no other, and Jesus himself is the savior of the world, exactly who is your savior? Who is it that you are trusting in for your salvation, and that could lead to a theological? Discussion that we’re not prepared to have at this particular juncture. But his understanding of the Godhead is problematic, and I understand that 20 years or so ago, he claimed that he was moving away from the modalism and embracing more and more orthodox understanding of the Trinity. But he still refers to the Godhead in terms of a manifestation. He does. That talk about the Godhead, the way the Bible talks about the Godhead, and so that’s problematic. If you don’t know, then what are you teaching your people? Your 17,000 people a week? What are you teaching them as well as the fact that you’re putting all of this out into the world via social media as well? He also is clearly a prosperity gospel preacher. He is 1. That believes that the whole name and then claim it speak it out into the world. God owes you. God responds to your faith. You were meant to have all of these good things. And all of the things that we know prosperity preachers put out into the world via their various platforms. TD Jakes is a purveyor of those as well. He promotes and preaches and teaches that as well. I have heard him with my own ears many a time. Say something along the lines of God. Owing us God being indebted to us, God can be our copilot type of attitude, which is obviously unbiblical, heretical, and blast.

[MCG]

Hmm.

[Jay]

From us, God is not indebted to anyone. God owns everything down to the very atoms and the quarks and everything that make up those atoms. God is not indebted to anyone, and he takes no counsel from any man. The Bible is clear about that. When job had to face God in his dilemma. Where he was obviously suffering everything that he was enduring and God said to him, where were you when I created the world? When I laid down the foundations when I did this, when I did that, where were you? Who in their right mind can say that they can give God counsel or that somehow God owes them, or somehow God is their equal and that he is partnering with them in order to bring a prosperity about in your lives? That is, that is a lie from the pit of hell that is still alive. Well, today unfortunately and TD Jakes preaches and teaches. Is that not only that it’s no secret the pictures are out online, that he is indeed chummy with the likes of Sean Diddy Combs, Oprah Winfrey? All of these celebrities that, if you have their approval, there should be alarm bells going off in your head as a Christian. As to why they like you so much, it’s most likely because you’ve prostituted and abandoned the gospel, and so I would say TD Jakes is not a sound. Preacher, everyone and their brother should be absolutely wary listening to anything that comes out of his mouth. Unfortunately, thousands upon thousands upon thousands of people listen to him regularly consume his content, the books and the lessons and everything that he puts out. And as you said earlier in the podcast and CG. 17,000 people every day. It’s really difficult because TD. Jakes is similar to the likes of Rick Warren in terms of he can be really kind of slimy in the sense that it’s hard to really pin him because he speaks out of both sides of his mouth so often. It’s really hard to pin him as a false teacher because if you just listen to a small portion of what he preaches and teaches. On the surface it sounds good, but if you take everything that he says in its entirety, he’s clearly a false teacher.

[MCG]

Alright so. Concerning what he’s found or not, as I said before, I didn’t know much about TD Jakes before I started researching for this episode. I knew of the name TD Jakes, but I had not listened to any of his messages or anything along. That. Line. So my most charitable impression before I get to what my real impression of him.

[Jay]

Mm-hmm.

[MCG]

Is my most charitable impression of him is that he’s not a preacher, he’s a motivational speaker and he does that very at a. He is a motivational speaker. You want to be fired over for something he might not be the right thing, but he’s going to motivate you. You know, he’s a good speaker. He can make a word salad into a Caesar salad or whatever you wanted with some chicken and whatever else on there. And some good Jesse and he will fix it up for you. He can do that. But. I think this clip that I’m going to play kind of sums up within his motivational speaking. He has to sell something. Something has to be the product and according to TD Jakes Jesus is the product.

[TD Jakes]

The Lord sent me here to feed somebody this morning. Hallelujah. I’ve been hand selected. I’ve been divinely picked, I’ve been Holy Ghost anointed. I’ve been designated for the assignment. God, I will not fail you.

[TD Jakes]

I think that Jesus is the product.

[Unknown]

If Jesus is the product, then Bishop TD Jakes is one of the Lord’s top salesman.

[MCG]

And there you have it. So that’s my most charitable impression of TD Jakes. He’s a motivator, speaker and in TD Jakes own words, Jesus is a product. What a thing for a pastor to say. No, my true impression. Well, I would agree with Jay. He’s a prosperity gospel preacher. He twists the word of God out of context to make it mean whatever he wants. He is the kind of guy who would use, you know, Psalms 105 or 15, saying touch, not my anointed. And do my prophet no harm. And he reads himself in description. That’s one of the biggest thing I noticed from him about a couple of messages. I listen, he reads himself a lot into scripture. No, you look at us patches like sounds 105, verse 15, and that’s about the Lord and mountain. And he will probably and thought he will listen to an episode like this, but he will listen to someone. And not talking favorably of him. And he would say, hey, he touched not the Lord anointed. That’s also found his first chronicles 1622. Now if you go to Psalm 105 and read the passage and compare it to Genesis Chapter 20, where the Bible talking about Abraham and Sarah, where Abraham told Sarah to lie about. Him being her husband so he doesn’t get killed by King Abimelek. And then God go to King Abdullah in the gym and say, hey, you’re touching a man’s wife. You’re touching the Lord anointed and refer to Abraham the Prophet. That’s what Psalms 105 was would happen. He wasn’t saying that. If there’s a preacher out there. And he’s preaching false stuff that no one can’t call them out. Obviously, if you don’t dig into that, you were like ohh, I can’t say anything about TD Jakes because he’s God anointed. No, he’s not that we refer to as the killer people. A royal priesthood. What Christ did for us when he died across and raised again. And we trust in our salvation. All of us are noted. As long as you have repented faith in Jesus Christ and trust him, realise your sinful nature and repent of this and trust Christ as your savior. All of us are special and peculiar and and a royal priesthood. The fight so teenage you can’t just go. Don’t touch a lot of nothing if you preaching heresy, someone can call you out from that, you know? So he used stuff like that and read himself in Scripture. And that’s no different from what his daughter Sarah did. I saw her on YouTube. Unfortunately, she got pregnant at 13, I think.

[Jay]

Absolutely.

[MCG]

That had their first kid at 14. Now they have no mention about who may have done this and what the case may be, or whether this person went to jail for it or what, I don’t know. And I don’t need to know, but I’m just simply saying she was talking about. I think that experience to some extent. And she used Genesis 3:15 to say that we’re going to be victorious in Christ, whereas yes, we have victory in Jesus Christ. You know, the famous and victory in Jesus. But they are better verses in Scripture to show that we have victory in Jesus than to use. And since 3:15 and saying that the serpent may bruise the heel. But you got to bruise the serpent held to show you have victory in Jesus. Never alluding to the proper exit. Jesus of the verse. That the first thing actually talking about Jesus Christ, not you say, or Jakes not any of us. Of course we can go to Corinthians and Romans and all these patches where the Bible talking about we are more than conquerors and all these things to show we have victory. Jesus rather than to take a scripture like this out of context. So that’s one of the biggest thing I see about him. They read themselves into scripture. Take script of the context and if you’re not keen on these things, it will go over your head because they’re not necessarily traditional preachers, they’re trying to motivate you to do something. So if you forget about the spiritual aspect of it, or whatever, you might go over your head if you don’t really. Oh, yeah, yeah. You know, I’m motivated. I’m fired up. But I don’t think the job of a pastor is to be motivational speaker. And I don’t think the job of the path is to take script out of context. Also, let’s say I give him a break on that one. What about the many clips out there of him? Talking about homosexuality and what his thoughts are on homosexuality, well, a very old clip of TD Jakes. He said this.

[Uknown]

Body is embraced in your.

[TD Jakes]

Church or absolutely?

[Oprah]

Yeah, absolutely. Because you know that you have been accused of saying that gay people would not be welcomed.

[TD Jakes]

Ohh no, no, no, that’s that’s not true. Though that’s not. True. Well, the perception in our society today is that if you don’t say you’re for same sex marriage or if you say that homosexuality is a sin that that you’re homophobic and you’re against gay people. That’s not true. I’m not called to give my opinion. I’ve called in the pastor to give the scriptural position on. It doesn’t mean that I have to agree with you. To love you, I would just like anybody, I love everybody.

[Oprah]

But does it mean you perceive with being gay, as in sin? Do you do you think that being gay is?

[TD Jakes]

A sin I I think that sex between two people of the same sex is condemned in the scriptures and as long as it is condemned in the scriptures, I don’t get to say what I think. I get to say what the Bible says. You know, I’m not particularly political. I’m not particularly denominational. I’m not worried about anything. I’m not anti-gay. I’m not anti anything. I’m just. I’m. I don’t wanna even be known by what I’m against. I want to be known by what I’m. 4 I’m four people better than tails, no matter who they are and where they are doing. All they can be to be. All that they can be.

[Jay]

If I could just say this idea of justice bettering yourself is problematic. If you are practicing the sodomite life, it’s not just an issue of bettering yourself. You don’t need to better yourself. You need to repent because you’re dangling over hell by a spider webs thread again. This trivialization of sin, trivialization of salvation is so problematic to me, but I’m sorry, go ahead.

[MCG]

No, that’s fine. I think that. You know, even if you want to give him a break. OK. Of course we can’t better ourselves. The Bible said that if any man being Christ, he is a new creature. Yes, you have to be transformed by the working of the Holy Spirit in your life, of course. Well, let’s say we give him a break on that because let’s say he’s trying to be politically correct, trying not to offend whatever case may be.

[Jay]

Yeah. OK.

[MCG]

And he said, hey. You know what the homosexuality is condemning Scripture? I’m going to stand in Scripture. That was an older clip. This clip is from a probably about 8-10 years old. And here’s what he has to say. No. A question coming in from Black 185 in our in our digital community said do you, do you think I’m assuming LGBT community and the Black Church can coexist?

[Marc Lamont Hill]

Absolutely. I let me push that question cause that that’s sort of obvious. Yes, church ain’t turning nobody away. How should the Black Church and LGBT community exist?

[TD Jakes]

I think it’s gonna be diverse from church to church. Every church has a different opinion on the issue and every gay person is different. And I think that to to speak the church, the Black Church, or White Church or any kind of church you wanna call it are all the same, is totally, totally not true. And all gay people are not the same. The, the, the types of relationships that are afforded. Are based on the types of people in each individual case, yeah. And LGBT’s are wipes and sorts have to find a household of worship that reflects what your views are and what you believe like anybody else. And the church should have the right to have its own convictions and values. If you don’t like those convictions and values, you totally disagree with it, don’t try to change my house. Move into your own and and establish that sort of thing and find somebody who gets what you get about faith. And trust me, I’ve talked to enough LGBT they are not all the same.

[Marc Lamont Hill]

Oh. For sure anymore than all Christians are saying, oh.

[TD Jakes]

No, no, no, no.

[MCG]

RG you should ask. How to the church and the LGBTQ plus community coexists.

[Jay]

They.

[MCG]

Shouldn’t no you?

[Jay]

Should ask me. OK, let me. OK, Sir, I jumped the gun there, MCG. Should the LGBTQ community and the church coexist? And if so, how?

[MCG]

No, you got it wrong. How OK how.

[Jay]

Yes, how?

[MCG]

Acts 822 repent. Therefore, of this thy wickedness and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. How can they coexist? TD Jakes and what his name? The other guy that was questioning him, Lamont Hill or something like that?

[Jay]

Amen. I forget this. Yeah, Lamont hill.

[MCG]

By the LGP person turning to Christ and repentant fate. Then finding the church that would tell them not what they want to hear, but what thus said the Lord Acts 319. Repent ye therefore and be converted that their sins may be blotted out when the times of provision shall come from the presence of the Lord, that question the easy question TD Jakes and you go on and say, Oh well, then you find the church, that whatever case may be. Find the church. Just say come as you are said and leave as you are. No find the church. I will tell them that they need to repent and turn to Christ. Anyways, the conversation continues.

[Marc Lamont Hill]

But how do we first, as your thinking evolved on this?

[TD Jakes]

Evolved and evolving, evolved and evolving. What what I think that where I am is to better understand we bought the church, bought into the myth that this was a Christian nation. And once you get past that, which a lot of people are gonna criticize me because they’re still gonna think it’s Christian nation which is a whole different show. But once you begin to understand that democracy.

[Marc Lamont Hill]

I’ve heard you. Where are you?

[TD Jakes]

And and that a Republic actually is designed to be an overarching system. To protect our unique nuances, then, we no longer look for public policy to reflect biblical ethics. If we can divide or what you would call separation of church and state, yeah, then we can dwell together more effectively because atheists, agnostics, Jews, all types of people, Muslims pay into the government. The government then cannot reflect one particular view over another just because we are the dominant group of religious people in the country, because those numbers are changing every day, we need a neutralized government that protects our right to disagree with one another and agree with one.

[MCG]

Another Deedee, would you like some croutons with that rust salad? Come on, answer the question in other.

[Jay]

Words. He doesn’t answer the question, but then not answering the question. He shows you who he really is.

[MCG]

Right. In other words, as the Scripture changed, that’s basically the question TD before that, when you were in opera, you gave a better answer, hmm. The answer TD is so as a culture change TD, if you change. The way he view God and his word change based upon the culture.

[Jay]

It’s it’s evolved and evolving.

[MCG]

Right, you know.

[Jay]

Because the Bible evolves and evolves, apparently what kind of nonsense is that?

[TD Jakes]

But.

[MCG]

But to be fair to him though. He did write an article or put something out there after this interview and he said that for clarification he does not mean that his biblical view on homosexuality has changed the way he viewed the homosexual person has changed. I guess whatever the case may be, but the position on the Bible hasn’t changed. All the kids maybe. Why didn’t he say that? Doing that interview, evolving, evolving, whatever case. They be both of them seem problematic to me when they hold them up to the word of God. The Bible says numbers 23, verse 19. God is not the man that he should lie. Neither the son of man that he should repent had he said and shall he not do it? Or had he spoken and shall he not make it good? Of course Matthew 25, verse 35, heaven and Earth shall pass away, but my words.

[Jay]

Absolutely.

[MCG]

And not passed away. Hey, the Bible is clear on the topic of homosexuality. TD Jakes clear very, very clear and we can stick to the word of God and get the backlash that that’s going to come our way. But at least we’ve been true to God and we have several episode. We have done several episode on the issue of homosexuality on LGBTQI issues that have taken over our culture today way back in episode eight, we did Black Lives Matter, the LGBTQIA movement.

[Jay]

I’m so.

[MCG]

Episode 51. Matthew Cashner how were your barriers move? A former homosexual who is now a missionary in Cambodia, share his testimony on the podcast. We did episode 119 Jack Queen passer Isaac Simmons a Romans 12/2 with the episode 135 LGBTQIA plus. We are coming for your child. Episode 141 God and LGBTQIA and we did episode 145 eve transgender question Mark and others. We have talked about this topic. I’m not gonna get in all of this, but I’m saying scripturally, these questions are not hard to answer if you’re not afraid of offending the culture. They’re not hard to answer. If you say God over man, they’re not hard to answer. But if you see a man over God, yeah, I can see. You don’t want to say some of these things. Anyways, here’s another clip of TD Jakes. He continues. Hmm, so that covers what happens outside.

[Marc Lamont Hill]

The church, right? Inside the church has your thinking. Biblically, scripturally, hermeneutically shift. At all. And the reason I asked that is because I talked to a lot of ministers now and there was that big conference in South Africa in the last couple of weeks where people from all over the world were there. And this is one of the issues that came up along with race and other things and. And one of the questions was, is, is there a way to approach Christian tradition, Christian scripture? In in, in in light of a new understanding of LGB, for example. 18th century there might have been particular saying what slavery meant in relation to Paul in relation to testament etcetera, that has shifted to the point that it is socially accepted that irrespective of what text says, literally we don’t support slavery as a body. Mm-hmm. Right. And and even though it varies, church church, most churches don’t support, say, might be a few out there that we don’t.

[MCG]

OK.

[TD Jakes]

Right, right. Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Lamont Hill]

Get invited to but. But but but similarly is there’s room for that same kind.

[TD Jakes]

Shift. I think that shift has to go on behind the closed doors of the church, because I think in the mainstream America, anybody who doesn’t agree with you, we have an A derogatory name to call you. And I think it oversimplifies the complexity of text. The fact that you have fidelity to the scriptures that you have been taught does not mean that you necessarily homophobic or any other kind of. Phobia, but yet in mainstream America. Anybody who doesn’t line up with the particular worldview, we give them a name to ostracize them, much like we were given names to ostracize us. This name calling does not depict the the struggle that many people have theological. I think the argument has to be theological and not sociological. The fact that the world has turned that way doesn’t mean that the word has changed that way. The argument for for clergy fundamental clergy has to be a theological argument. It cannot be a sociological 1.

[MCG]

There’s so many ways you can go on this. Firstly I was. The. It’s not an argument. The Bible is. Clear. Secondly, the Bible has never condoned slavery. At least chatter slavery as blacks went through, and many, many other races went through. If you go far back enough, everybody was enslaved one. Sometime Africans enslaved other Africans. You’re paying enslave other Europeans.

[Jay]

Right.

[MCG]

Agent and slavery ages. Slavery was not started when the ships come into being, and all of a sudden you Europeans start shipping African from Africa to the US and England and the Caribbean. Slavery was already intact. We talk about this in episode 91 on Episode 92 is part one and Part 2 slavery. The Bible and Christians. If you’re interested in that, you go and listen to those. And so. But there are so many things that go. Hear that? You know, stick to scripture. I don’t think you can go wrong there. Anyways, here’s another clip of TD Jakes.

[Marc Lamont Hill]

If I went at a time I would push you on this one day, we’re gonna bring you back just to talk about this because I’m. I’m fascinated by your take on it. And I I wanna not just challenge you. I wanna understand your thinking on this. Because the thing I appreciate about you most is that you operate in good faith. You’re honest. You’re. And about your struggle with these things and about your convictions about what you think.

[MCG]

Mm-hmm.

[TD Jakes]

Well, it’s a complex issue. It’s a real complex issue and it was in the Bible days, sexuality versus spirituality. Paul spends a lot of time wrestling back and forth trying to understand should a woman wear her head covered is, you know, should you cut your hair? I mean, they grapple back then and we’re grappling now because we are humans and we are flawed and we are not God. Once you understand you’re not God, you, you leave yourself an out clause to grow to. Yeah, to grow. I know.

[MCG]

And the topic of homosexual. It’s not hard. There’s no struggle about this. Paul did not struggle on the topic of human sexuality.

[Jay]

But it’s like you said, MCG, if you’re seeking to appease the masses, if you’re seeking to appease your audience, then yeah, it’s super difficult to say what thus saith the Lord, and he’s obviously seeking to appease the masses.

[MCG]

Ohh yeah, but I think you mentioned something about the struggle of homosexuality and Romans. One first one is in 27, yeah, for this cause God gave them up to vile affection for even their women didn’t change their natural use into that, which is against nature, and likewise also the men leaving the natural use. Of the woman burned in their lust. Want another man with men working that which is unseemly and receiving themselves the recompense of the error which was meet this like he was struggling there. TD that seemed pretty clear to me. So what are you talking about? Anyways, I have one more clip and here is Teddie talking to one of the richest black women in the world.

[Oprah]

Are there many paths or different paths to? God.

[TD Jakes]

Great question. Let me answer that this way. 1st, I believe one of the great lessons I think that we have today is to live in a country that allows us to have various religious notions. I’m so thankful that I don’t have Congress deciding what I’m going to believe. Having said that, and with that tolerance and celebrating that tolerance, I believe that we all take different paths. Some people find God in church, some people find God. Right at the house, some people find God in their bedrooms. Some people find God in prison. There may be different paths to God, but at the end of the day, there’s one God and there’s one door. I believe that the Christian that. Christ is that door.

[Oprah]

Are all the religions leading to that path? Or is only Christianity leading to that path?

[MCG]

Second chance, TD.

[TD Jakes]

OK.

I think you can get in Christianity and miss that path if you’re not careful, right? And I think that many people start in other religions and at some point they my prayer. My hope is that they will cross over and I’m cross over and and see Christ His Lord, even if it’s at the final moment.

[Oprah]

Are all the religions leading to that path or is?

[MCG]

Third chance, TD.

[Oprah]

Only Christianity leading to that path.

[MCG]

Jay, you should ask me. Let’s play a game, ask and answer. You should ask me.

[Jay]

MCG do all the religions lead to that path, or is it just Christianity that leads to that path?

[MCG]

Joe. 14, verse five and six. Thomas said unto him, Lord, we know not where the dog goeth, and how can we know the way Jesus said unto him, I am the ways.

[Jay]

Wrong.

[MCG]

Jesus said unto him, I am the way, the truth.

[Jay]

Amen.

[MCG]

And the life no man cometh unto the father, but by me, they’re gonna be any more clear. It cannot be any more dogmatic. Why are we making this answer hard? Yes, it’s is exclusive. Yes, it is saying that there’s only one way to have. And there’s only one way to God. But that was what Jesus said. That’s what he said. That’s what the Bible says. Have a history with it. Take it up with the scripture.

[Jay]

Acts 412 neither is there salvation and any other, for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

[MCG]

Yeah, man. So there you have it. Did she ask you three times? Maybe even four times. And you went into your word salad again. I’m the same man, you know. So easy. A solid preacher. Well, if you can’t answer a question without giving word solid, I’m sorry. I’m gonna have to say no. If you have to, you know, preach. Prefer to gospel.

[Jay]

No.

[MCG]

I’m gonna say no. If you’re gonna have to, you know. Appease yourselves to the likes of Marc Lamont Hill and Oprah Winfrey and whoever else because you don’t want to offend. No, clearly have a fear of man over fear of God. But anyways, let’s conclude this how should have TD Jake respond to the accusation? What a true or false it doesn’t.

[Jay]

Matter, I think. That if you were called to preach the word of God to be a preacher, to be a under shepherd, that should be your primary and ultimate. Focus when his initial response in that sermon, and I’m sure that he’ll respond again. And I’m sure that more things will come out. But it was so empty, so flippant, so vapid, so unbiblical. He’s definitely failed in that particular regard. You know, I heard someone say I can’t remember if he was a preacher or if he was. Like a Deacon or a church administrator or something. He’s talking about pastors responding to sexual abuse allegations that come up within the body, and he said that you should always respond with sorrow, sorrow because something has happened. So it’s either sorrow because this thing has happened or it’s sorrow because. This false accusation has been made, and now you’re dealing with the sin of people making false accusations. What it will do to the body, you’re always thinking about how this will affect the body of Christ, how this will hinder the proclamation of the message, the mercy and the grace and the love and the forgiveness that we find in Christ Jesus so. Basically, your primary focus is always the proclamation of the gospel, no matter what in his response, it was all about himself and it was all about how. Ohh, this isn’t affecting him and how you shouldn’t worry about him. Thank you for praying for him and he’s fine and he’s not worried about it. And even if there was something, all he had to do was repent or he didn’t even say repent. He said just ask forgive us from the bottom of his heart and it was all about himself. He kept saying the words give God some praise, but that wasn’t what was actually happening in that clip. They were not cheering and worshipping God. They were cheering and worshipping him. I know that’s a pretty bold statement to say and I’m sure no one in that congregation would say, hey, I’m here to worship TD Jakes. I’m sure that’s not the case. There was nothing that exalted Christ in that clip. There was nothing that promoted. The proclamation of the Gospel, in fact it hindered it. It obscured it. And he should have responded. Like you said earlier, MCG, I agree with you with the sort of brokenness for something, anything. And there’s much to be sorrowful and broken about. And he responded with, I agree with you when you said arrogance and that was just not the right way to go about it. Now, I don’t want to pretend like I would know. All the INS and outs of how to respond to something of this magnitude, our preachers, our pastor. Ours, our leaders are really under intense pressure and scrutiny. And so if you are a believer in a local church body, you really should be praying for your pastor. There’s a lot there. They really need our prayer and support. But in a situation like this, when this is his response, man, I. Let me gloss it over and say there was much lacking in his response. That’s of any biblical value or worth.

[MCG]

Yeah, I would agree. Well, firstly, let me. Let’s say you know, we can kind of chuckle about this. So yeah, we know it’s true because it’s on the Internet, stuff like that. Of course, we don’t know. And you already said you believe it’s true. I mean, by a fraction of a point that is not true. But I think in terms of how we should have responded to it, at least privately with his family. And I’m not saying he did.

[Jay]

No, right? We don’t know. That’s true. We don’t know.

[MCG]

Not do that.

[Jay]

Mm-hmm.

[MCG]

Privately with his deacons and quote UN quote ministerial staff. And again, I’m not saying he did not do that privately with his church, meaning cut off the live stream, cut off whatever, and talk to your people. Your response didn’t need to be. YouTube, even though you say not responding, but you’re still responding. So I think something here again assuming it’s false. Still privately say hey, you know folks, there’s nothing here, maybe an investigation is going on. One of the case may be give them as much as you find willing enough to give and what they can handle of course church polity differs in terms of. Some things and different people and different leaders have different way of approaching certain things. Like this. Mm-hmm. So far as I will see, for most part, keep silent about it. Move on again, assuming. This falls. I’m going on that this thing didn’t need to come out on the Internet. You respond didn’t need to be there. At least your so-called respond because you say you weren’t responding. But the responding again. I said that already. But whatever. You know the way this is right now, this is a family affair. What is a church family affair or family? Meaning blood family. Husband and wife kids are fear rather than a public a fear the way it is right now. But you responding to it, making it a little bit bigger than what it should be at this point in terms of at least just saying I did not do it. But I think he took it a little bit further than it should have. Wrong. So I don’t think a public comment was necessary at this time. Of course, I don’t know. You know what the lawyers are involved at this time or what’s going on. So that’s the saying here now there. But I just kind of felt like right now, since we don’t know and he’s not coming out and say he did it well, most like he’s saying that he did not do it. And again, if you listen to that message from Christmas Eve. 2023, he said he’s a 66 or 65 year old. And not capable of doing certain things. I don’t quite think that’s true, but but anyways, and when these accusations are made, these are years ago. So you weren’t 65 or 66 when some of these happened anyways. But the important thing here, most importantly, there’s an accusation against all of.

[Jay]

Right, right.

[MCG]

Us. Yeah, and that’s accusation. Is that we are all sinners and you know my friend, that is not a very accusation. That is the fact we are all sinners. The Bible teaches us that God created man in a perfect state, that. Man, at least for that period of time, was without sin. The Bible teaches us Romans 5, verse 12, which was by one man Sin entered the world and death by sin, and so they passed upon all men. For that all have sinned, that one man, Adam, committed the first sin by disobeying God’s law and plunged humanity. Into sin. Because of that, all of us are sinners. Bible said that that path upon all men, because they all have sinned. Romans 3, verse 23, for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Romans 310, as is written, there is none righteous, no, not one. There’s not a just man upon the earth that do it God and sin. It not that I will make it clear. We are all sinners to the accusation against us. Your Sinner quite answer is not so much of accusation is a fact. If you’re listening to my voice right now, you are a Sinner in the sight of God. You will have to pay for your sin. The Bible say to that pass upon all men, for that all of sin. Romans 623 for the rages. This is what you earn from your sin. For the rages of sin is death. For the gift of God, the eternal life to Jesus Christ our Lord. But what can be done? And this is where you would not get this from TD Jakes. What can be done about that sinful state well firstly. Nothing can be done by you. That’s the most important thing. Nothing can be done by you. It has already done for you upon the cross of Calvary. The Bible says Romans 328. Therefore, we conclude that the man is justified by faith. Without the deeds of the law, Romans 328 again, therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith. Without the deeds of the law, Galatians 26. Seen knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ. Even we have believed in Jesus Christ that we might be justified by the faith of Christ and not by the works of the law, for by the works of the law shall no flesh. He justify Galatians 321. I do not frustrate the grace of God, for if wretchedness come by the law, then Christ’s death is in vain. And if he’s just two verse 89 for by grace and he saved true faith and that not of yourself, it is the gift of God not of works, lest any man should boast, so is nothing that you can do. But what Christ has done for you upon the cross of Calvary, the Bible declares. In Romans, chapter 5, verse 8. But God commended his love towards us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

And of course, Romans 9, verse 10 and 13, that if thou shall confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in thine heart that God has raised him from the dead, thou shall be saved, for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture said. Whosoever believeth in him shall not be ashamed, for there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek for the same Lord overall, it’s written to all that call. Upon him, for whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord, shall be saved. What I’m saying here is that we all sinners, we all have violated the commands of a holy and righteous God, and a destined unto a Christ of eternity called hell. But because God commanded his love to rather. Because Jesus Christ came and died and took our place, it is through repentant faith in him that we can be safe. Would you call upon him today and be safe?

[Jay]

This is the removing barriers. Last, if the podcast or the blog were a blessing to you, leave us a rating and a review on your favorite podcast platform. And don’t forget to share the podcast with your friends, removing barriers, a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

Thank you for listening. To get a hold of us to support this podcast or to learn more about removing barriers. Go to removingbarriers.net. This has been the removing barriers podcast. We attempted to remove barriers so that we all can have a clear view of the cross.