Episode 157

In early 2024, Moms for Liberty representative Tiffany Justice sat down with MSNBC’s Joy Reid to discuss the so-called book bans taking place in schools across the country, mostly in response to the shocking discovery that there are books in the libraries and media centers of public K-12 schools that contain explicit descriptions and depictions of sexual activities and violence. In almost all cases, the content is not only explicit, but also vulgar. Moms for Liberty claims to be merely raising awareness and empowering parents to fight back at the local level, but the likes of Joy Reid and Pen America are accusing them of banning books and attacking freedom of speech and expression. Are these accusations true? What is Moms for Liberty really all about? Is the concern about questionable content in these books overblown or politicized? If Moms for Liberty are as successful in book banning as the likes of Joy Reid think they are, should we stop them? Is book banning the appropriate course of action in a country that has freedom of speech, of expression, of religion, and of association enshrined in its Constitution? Join us on this episode of the Removing Barriers podcast as we explore all these questions and more.

[Jay]

This is Pen America’s continued idea of parent’s rights. While parents and guardians ought to be partners with educators and their children’s education, you hear that they ought to be partners, OK, they ought to be partners with educators in their children’s education and need channels for communicating with school administrators, teachers and librarians. Particularly concerning the education of their own children, public schools are, by design, supposed to rely on the expertise, the ethics and the discretion of educational professional to make these decisions.

Thank you for tuning in to the Removing Barriers podcast. I’m Jay and I’m MCG. And we are Attempting to remove barriers so we can all have a clear. View of the cross.

[MCG]

This is episode 157 of the Removing Barriers Podcast. And in this episode. We will be responding to the viral discussion between MSNBC host Joy Reid and Mammoth for Liberty co-founder Tiffany Justice.

[Jay]

Hi, this is Jay. MCG and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to removingbarriers.net and subscribing to receive all things, removing barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at removingbarriers.net/donate, removing barriers. A clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

And let me add, you may want to distract your kids from this episode, since we’ll be talking about some stuff that is not appropriate for young years. All right, Jay, let’s get into it. Let’s talk about the background of this discussion before we give our reaction to the discussion.

[Jay]

In late January of 2024, Moms for Liberty co-founder Tiffany Justice sat down with Joy Reid of the readout news program on MSNBC to discuss so-called book bans and K through 12 public schools across the country. Months for liberty is a grassroots political group that seeks to push back against the. Highly questionable curriculums and practices of the American public school system that have come to light during the pandemic of 2020 they seek to empower parents to act by providing information, providing resources and increasing awareness of what’s actually going on in our children’s public schools. Parents have taken this information, and they’ve called for certain books in their locales to be reviewed or maybe taken off the shelves. The left, of course, is calling this an attack on free speech. They’re calling it a book ban. They say it’s an attack on education, the right for children to be fully educated, and they call it an assault on parental rights. Joy Reid of MSNBC is, of course, on the left, and so she sees moms for liberty as part of a far right movement to undermine what they call, quote, our democracy. And she engaged accordingly. And the clip has gone viral on YouTube for many, many reasons that we will be addressing in this podcast.

[MCG]

All right. Well, why don’t we play the first clip and see what this discussion was all about?

[Joy Reid]

LGBTQ parents and parents of LGBTQ kids, so they have parental rights.

[Mrs. Justice]

Every parent joy them, every parent, means every parent has the fundamental right to direct the upbringing of their.

[Joy Reid]

Children and liberal parents do liberal parents have those?

[Mrs. Justice]

Rights as well all parents.

[MCG]

You know the interesting part here about parental rights? Does the left or the Democrats even believe in parental rights?

[Jay]

No, they only believe in parental rights. So far as parents agree with their agenda and their understanding of what children should be learning or how children should be brought up or indoctrinated in their schools, you know that they don’t believe in parental rights. We’re going to see this later on in the clips that we’re going to listen to, but. They believe that the children belong to them. Children belong to the state or to the school or to the teachers, and that parents need to cede their authority to them because they’re the experts and they know best. And so when they’re talking about parental rights, what they’re really talking about, the parental rights of people who agree with us or people who raise their. Kids, according to how we think kids should be raised.

[MCG]

Well, it’s interesting you said that because here is a clip of our current President, Joseph Robinette Biden junior talk. About who our nation kids belong to.

[President Joe Biden]

Rebecca put a teacher’s creed into words when she said there’s no such thing as someone else’s child. No such thing as someone else’s child. Our nation’s children are all our children.

[MCG]

Well, Mr. Biden, come and get them. I guess would be the appropriate response to that, but there you have it. Our nation. Children are our children. And so yeah, you’re right. The left does not believe in parental rights, but I’m going to go through a series of scripture verses here because I think the Bible, which is our standard of living and not Republican or Democrat, gives. Parental rights, of course. Ephesian 6, verse one to four. The Bible says here children obey your parents in the Lord for this is. Right. You know the children obey the government in the Lord. Then the the children obey your teachers in the Lord. Not saying that the children should not obey their teachers or the law set forth by the government or the Bible specific with their children. Obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right, honor thy father and mother, which is the first commandment. That he may be well with thee and thou mayest live long on the earth, and he fathers, provoke not your children to rot, but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. The Bible clarity is giving parents a lot, a lot of rights, fathers. Provoking children, not even talking about abuse, just simply provoking them to write the Bible to even provide it to right, but bring them of what in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. And I think the Bible is clearly giving us give pear with a lot of rights there and a lot of blessings to children who decide to honor their father and their mother. And of course, this was coming directly from Exodus 12 and verse 20, where we get the 10 Commandments from honor thy father and mother, that the days may be long upon the earth, which the Lord thy God giveth thee. Of course, you can also look at first time world three and verse 13 and the Lord said on this same well, behold. I will do a thing in Israel at which both the ears of everyone that heareth it shall tingle. In that day, I will proclaim against Eli all things which I’ve spoken concerning his house. When I begin, I will also make an end, for I have told him that I will judge his house forever for the iniquity which he knoweth. Because his sons made themselves vile and he restrained them not, and therefore I have sworn unto the House of Eli that the inequity of Eli House shall not be purged with sacrifice, nor offering forever. What are we seeing? Well, Eli had two grown sons who were basically sinning in the temple of the Lord Note 2 grown sons, and the Lord is going to judge not only the sons, but Eli their father because he did not. Do anything to restrain his son from Simon. Parents have a tremendous responsibility for their children and the Bible say even here he’s even judging them, judging a parent for their grown son. Of course, we understand that Old Testament are not saying that, you know, parents are always going to suffer for the sin of their children. I’m just saying here. The principle where God Judge Eli, partly because of the sins of their son, and he cannot. Of course it’s because he did not restrain them. Great Proverbs 6, verse 20 to 23, my son. Ones keep thy father’s commandment and forsake not the law of thy mother. Bind them. Continue upon thine heart and tie them about their neck when thou goest, it shall lead thee, and when thou sleepeth, it shall keep thee. And when thou awakes, it shall walk with thee, for the commandment is a lamp, and the law is light and will prove. Of instruction, the way of life. Of course, due to run 11 verse 18 and 19 and he shall teach your children speaking to their modern cities in their house and when they walk us in the way and when they lie us down. And when thou rise us up, thou shall write them upon the door post of thine house, and upon thy gates. Seem like the Bible is telling us, hey, you should teach your children. That’s why many Christian homes home school. Because the Bible put the education, the rearing and the teaching and the imputing the moral values upon children by their parents. Of course, now we have certain groups. That would tell us that there’s no such thing as parental rights. And as we said earlier, the left for most part in my opinion, don’t believe in parental rights. I’m going to play two clips from 2 Tik tokers in Canada saying basically that there’s no such thing as parental rights.

[Tiktok Audio 1]

Such thing as parental rights. It’s not recognized in law. It’s not in the Charter doesn’t exist. Children’s rights, however, are recognized and have been for a very long time. Parents have responsibility, which is recognized in the law, but no rights. If your child does not want to tell you something. Vote them that. Your problem. Not the governments, not the school systems. Maybe you should ask yourself why your child might not want to tell you whatever it is your conspiracy brain thinks that they should have to.

[MCG]

You know, The funny thing about that when he said there’s no such thing as parental rights, as you said, it’s only when he’s in favor for them. Remember, in episode 102 when we discussed with Pastor Todd about abortion, the biblical perspective, and we were talking about a certain school district that. The student would have to get a consent from the parents for the school nurse to administer aspirin to a student, but yet they will administer contraceptives without informing the parents or acting for the parents, right? And of course I’m not. They might argue, well, aspirin. There might be allergic reaction. Well, I’m sure you can have allergic reaction to any medication, including contraceptives. It’s only when it’s in their favour. Ohh. There’s no staying as parental. Right, here’s another one.

[Tiktok Audio 2]

And all of this is happening with this infectious idea that’s taking over of this idea of parents rights that parents have a right to know. They have a right to know if their child is going by a different name or using different pronouns in school. And the thing that keeps hitting me about this is that. Parents don’t have rights, not parents rights. Kids have rights. Individuals have rights we have seen in our legal and justice systems that the decisions that parents make can be legally overridden by their children. Children who are old enough to understand a concept are old enough to provide their own independent consent to that. And if a kid knows what pronouns are, then frankly they’re able to consent to changing their own pronouns, and their parents do not need to be involved in that decision.

[Jay]

This is absolutely bonkers. That might need to be in a bonkers episode.

[MCG]

Yeah. The funny thing is, I don’t like necessarily the right and left division because. My standard is the Bible, but I don’t think anyone is arguing that children do not have rights. Obviously they are human beings. They are citizens of a country. Obviously they have rights. Like for instance, our two older boys can read. We went to a restaurant the other day and they were able to read the menu and order what they want. Their individuals, they have preferences, they have likes, however. They are boys and they prefer to go to bed with their brushing their teeth. We don’t give them that choice to say, all right, you don’t have to brush your teeth tonight when you. Going to bed because their children and we always in society know that children do not have the maturity. To make certain decisions for parents, protect children until they are of the age of majority, where they can make no certain decisions for themselves. I don’t know where the argument comes where that parents doesn’t have rights, but children have rights. Parents have rights, children have rights. But. Parents have a God-given responsibility to raise their children up with their morals in the nurture, and the admonition of the Lord not based upon what the government feels talking about it. Even just recently, the YouTuber Ruby Frank she. This sentence at least convicted, probably pending sentencing at this point, but she could receive up to 30 years in prison for abusing her children if children didn’t have rights, why would Ruby Frank be convicted and be sent, sent in to jail prison? Because obviously, children. Right. No one is that you end. Up right, didn’t know. This that at a certain age, children should not be making certain decision. And here’s another YouTuber. The name of this YouTube channel is man versus street. And he went into the street and he. Asked some of these folks a particular question, should a 12 year old be able to get a tattoo and be interested in what? Please stay here.

[Man vs Street]

Do you think a 12 year old should? Be able to get a.

[Speaker 9]

Tattoo. I’m going to say no.

[Speaker 10]

Probably not, no. It’s probably too young.

[Speaker 11]

To make decisions, it’s a pretty permanent decision.

[Speaker 10]

They can’t make the decision for themselves yet something permanent on their body.

[Man vs Street]

Do you think a 12 year old should be able to?

[Speaker 10]

Consent to puberty blockers? Yes, yes, and I understand how that sounds. Really hypocritical. Yes, it’s a permanent change on their body, but I think that at that point in their life, they probably know who they are. Who? They want to be.

[Man vs Street]

And you think so? At 12 years old? Do you think the 12 Jules should be able to consent to?

[Speaker 11]

Puberty blockers? Yes, because that’s not a permanent.

[Speaker 12]

Decision that’s a life changing decision. I don’t think that any 12 year old is in a position to make a decision that’s going to affect them long term.

[Speaker 11]

When you get puberty blockers for a lot of kids, that’s like life saving is keeping them from having to go through a puberty. I think puberty blockers are a great sort of like middle. Ground to allow a child. To better understand themselves without having to make decisions like surgery or doing nothing and having to live through a puberty that. Is not within. That that they don’t identify.

[Speaker 12]

With, I think there’s plenty of time to make those decisions later on once they’ve had a chance to decide exactly what they want their identity.

[Speaker 9]

To be I think that maybe there should be more waiting, but I don’t want to like put down trans ideas so.

[Man vs Street]

Do you think a 12 year old should be able to consent? To puberty blockers.

[Speaker 11]

If they can make an informed decision, yeah.

[Man vs Street]

And you think a 12 year old can make an informed decision?

[Speaker 13]

No, I guess it depends on the.

[Man vs Street]

12 year old be like a really mature 12 year old.

[Speaker 13]

Right. Yeah, because some children, you can just tell. Like when they that that decision is legit with them. But like a 12 year old child. And I think that would be a.

[Speaker 11]

Little difficult at 12 years old, you have a sense of your gender identity, of your sex identity. So I don’t see why. I mean we we know there’s kids that young killing themselves because they don’t. Because they have so much gender dysphoria that they’re having to deal with, the struggles of being trans. So why would we? If there’s a simple answer like puberty blockers, I I think it’s one of the best.

[Man vs Street]

OK. So if a 12 year old thinks they’re a different gender, they should be able to go in and be like I want puberty blockers.

[Speaker 14]

I mean, I don’t think it’s that simple as that. I think there’s a lot more like like medical theory and social well Wellness that needs to be incorporated into that interaction between a 12 year old and a I guess, a doctor, if that’s what you’re saying they’re going to. But I do think that a 12 year old should.

[Man vs Street]

Have that choice. What do you have to say to those people? That. Let their children consent to puberty blockers at like 10/11/12 result.

[Speaker 12]

I would say that I disagree with you and I think you’re in irresponsible parent. Bottom line.

[MCG]

For they have it a group of people. Whose ideology totally block. Ability for them to think reasonably. I have four sons. I’ll prefer that they cover their body with tattoo than to go and be probably backers, and I’m not even 4 tattoo.

[Jay]

I think the situation here is that and obviously we live in a pluralistic society and the majority. Moral governing under structure of the country is no longer Christianity, and so now we have a question of people who not only live and practice a life of debauchery and deviancy, but they are also. Parenting children. As they continue and live in this lifestyle, and so the question is, do they have rights and this may be going beyond the scope of what we’re trying to address in this particular episode, but perhaps it’s something that Christians ought to be thinking about because if you have people who live and believe like these people that we’ve heard on, TikTok. On YouTube, then in the. Next several years. Goodness. I don’t even want to say that because we’re in it right now. We’re going to have people who are spiritually and morally bankrupt, making decisions that will fundamentally and deeply and whatever other adjective changed the lives of the children that are in their care because we’ve allowed them to adopt. Children there is a proliferation of children via reproductive technologies, and so this is a question that we really have to come up with because in the same way that we can say the Bible says that parents are to raise their children up in the neutral admonition of the Lord, they can turn around and say well. Well, parents rights, or I believe that I am raising my children under this moral standard. That’s not Christianity. And so the question is, how should Christians respond to that? Because these are people who have absolutely rejected Christ’s Lord. They’ve rejected his rule. They’ve rejected his word. They’ve rejected his authority, and collectively, they are creating a sort of power. Parallel economy, a parallel society that they’re creating space for themselves that allows them to live their lives without fear of any repercussion, immediate repercussion, physical repercussion in this world today for not following the laws of God for not following.

[MCG]

There, there are a lot of repercussions for the stuff. One is that they’re making their children. Sterilized for the rest.

[Jay]

Of their life? Well, they would say that that’s just what the children want. And that’s the result of having this freedom to do as we please, whereas before a fear among the electorate among the people, because generally speaking, not individually, but generally speaking, this nation was God fearing that fear is. It’s gone now.

[MCG]

Well, one yes, that’s true. But The thing is here to parental rights. Do they have parental rights? Absolutely they do. And they will raise their children according to their beliefs and quote UN quote their morals. Well, what is the job for us as Christian? Is to share the gospel with them. Trip to the Lord of the Harvest that we will have laborers to go and have this feeling. We share the gospel and that they will be saved and turn to the Lord. So we can’t take away their parental rights. But The thing is, I don’t think Christians are trying to take away and I hate to lump Christians conservative in the same bracket because then at the same thing. But I’m gonna say, Christian, the conservative right wing, whatever you want to call them, I don’t think anyone on that side or let’s say the opposite of the left and liberal or opposite of the Democrat. I don’t think anyone wants to take away their kids. The arts are their parents, are their parental rights. But I think if they got the opportunity, they will take away our parental rights rights to raise our children with the moral values that we see what it is through scripture or through whatever else we may deem right.

[Jay]

Their so-called parental rights. Right. Well, one of the organizations that has risen up against moms for liberty is an organization called PEN America. Joy Reid is going to reference them in one of the subsequent clips that we listen to, but their idea of parents rights, this is from the. Our website quote, although parents rights is a powerful piece of political rhetoric, in most instances it is being invoked to mean rights for a particular group of parents with distinct ideological views rather than a neutral effort to engage all parents and students. In ensuring that schools uphold free speech rights, and later on, we’re going to see what they mean by that. But they’re saying that anyone who claims parental rights parental rights are really just right wing. Nuts who want to take everyone else’s rights away so that everyone can live under this ideological banner that they call Christianity. And they say that they are for free speech. What they mean by that is everything is allowed without barrier, without restraint, without any measure of censorship. And so that means that all of the books that moms for liberty are contending against. Or calling attention to that are explicit and graphic in many ways, not just sexual, but also in terms of violence and in terms of other undesirable characteristics. Well, these people, they say these people are against our right to indulge in those things and to expose children to those things. That’s what. They are saying, and so when they’re saying parental rights, it’s again like we’re saying we have the right to show these kids whatever we deem is acceptable. You don’t have the right to tell us what to show the. Kids, even if they’re not your kids, or even if they are your kids, we decide what is acceptable to show children.

[MCG]

Well, let’s see. It comes down to this because now you’re making this cool and extension of the home, and that’s where you’re getting the issue now.

[Jay]

No, they go beyond that.

[MCG]

Well, what I’m saying is that you’re taking a group of kids from many homes and you put them into one school. AKA the public school or the government indoctrination centers. And when they get there, then you say, OK. They will all these kids from different homes, different moral values, quote UN quote. Of course, because God is the creator, he has the right to set forth what is right and wrong and what is morally right and wrong. But let’s go along with the way we have those social construct today in a sense that, you know well, your kids don’t want to fail, but this kid want the. And we have to figure some how to let all of them live together. Well, again one you can speak to Christians and say, of course, that’s why I will push for home school. Our solid Christian School. But at the end of the day, there has to be some sort of standard. There’s say something is wrong. Don’t do it. That something is right. We could do it and for. Hundreds of years we have always protect children in our society. City from certain things until they become a certain age where they can make certain decisions, but the most important thing here I want to emphasize though is that all through the rest of the clips I’m going to go to clip to pretty shortly here. But all through this clip, those TikTok videos that we show on that YouTube, man versus treat the argument they make is. Epitome of the same argument Joy Reid makes did just want to win an argument because when you say that a child should not be able to consent to a tattoo but they can consent to puberty. Curves because the tattoo is permanent, there’s a. That dissonance there. Yeah, that you can’t even like what one of the young ladies said it. She doesn’t want to go against trans ideology. She knows it is wrong, but here is Joy Reid and Click to.

[Joy Reid]

So. So let me let me point you to some statistics because the question becomes then who gets to decide what all kids get to read? The Washington Post took a look at the about 1000 plus book challenges that were filed, and they found that they were filed nationwide by just 11 people. Each of these people brought 10 or more challenges against books in their school district. Together, these serial filers constituted 6% of all book challengers, but they were responsible for 60% of filings in Florida, Tampa Bay Times. They found that of of roughly 1100 complaints recorded in Florida since July 2022. We’re talking about more than 700 just from 2 counties of. Gambia, in the Western Panhandle and Clay County together, those are less than 3% of the public school enrollment. 600 of those complaints to. People. Why should 13 people get to decide what books, 10s of thousands of children get to?

[Mrs. Justice]

Read well, I’m I’m thinking it’s probably because those 13 people saw what some of the content was in the books. I mean, explicit graphic sexual content. And I’m happy to talk about some of that content. If you if you’d like to.

OK.

[Jay]

This is so disingenuous. What she just did there. OK, she took those statistics from Pan America, Pan America on their website makes it clear about their methodology for finding out the number of books that have been banned. They record the banning of books according to two different metrics. Every time a request is made for a book to be banned, and that book is actually pulled off the shelf, either temporarily or indefinitely, that’s counted as a ban, but at the same time, if a book has been challenged and taken off of the shelves. The individual title is counted as a title, Ben as well, so let me explain that there are two different statistics. If you ask pen America what is the number of title bands for whatever number of challenges that have been made, they will give you a particular number that goes to each individual book. That has been. So-called banned. It’s not really banned, but we’ll talk about that a little bit later. That’s one number. The other number is the total number of bands. So if one title has, say, 10 copies in one library. If all 10 copies were removed from the shelves, that’s considered according to their methodology, 10 bands. So if one parent says I. Like the book, I don’t know. Let’s call it all boys aren’t blue, which is a sexually graphic book about homosexuality and rape. And they’ll talk about it a little bit later. If one parent goes to their local high school and they say, I don’t want all boys art blue on the shelf. And if the school pulls it. If that school has, say, 20 copies of the book, who knows how many copies the school will? Pen America will count each individual copy as one ban, so you could see that the numbers are inflated #1 #2. If that book was pulled across several different libraries. And let’s say each library has, I don’t know, say 5 copies of the same book each of those. Are considered an individual ban. So when they say. Say that, oh, thousands of books have been pulled off the shelves. That’s actually an insulated number and a grossly inflated number because they’re counting replicates of each book. Now, when she says that ohh, why do 13 people get to decide what 10s of thousands of families and have children read what’s really just. Happening. What they’re really only talking. About is the battle that’s happening. She called it nationwide, but it’s actually only happening in three states right now. Of course, with other states. As the information gets out there, I’m sure more and more parents will take up the fight, but it’s really only happening in Florida, where Governor DeSantis has put his foot down on the indoctrination and the infiltration of woke ideology in the schools it’s happening in. Florida, I think Utah might be another one and Tennessee, those are the hotspots. Those three states are the hot spots in the country. Right now, perhaps Texas might be in there too. So let’s say those are the four hotspots in the country, so she can call it nationwide, even though it’s literally just four states throughout the entire country. And every single time that multiple copies of that one book, whatever it is, is pulled, that’s counted as a ban. So Pan America has a very inflated number. Of books that have been pulled off the shelves. And they use that they weaponize it to make it sound like these parents are just marching into these libraries and into these schools with hammers and torches and pitchforks, demanding that all of these books be pulled off of the shelves. And that’s just not true. It is not true that only 13 people are trying to ban books and prevent thousands of children from reading them. In addition to that, the books are not just being banned because of the graphic sexual nature of these books. There are also books that have graphic and gratuitous descriptions. Of physical violence. Suicide. How to do suicide? Why you feel like you would want to commit suicide. Those are also some of the books that are being removed as well. One of the anchors of the pen America argument against these parents that are putting in these complaints against the books is that, oh, they just want to ban books. That are written by homosexuals, queers, women, marginalized people. But that is absolutely not the case. That’s not the only thing that’s happening in these particular bands. So I think we need to talk about the quality of the electorate, the quality of the people of the United States. That has a significant. Affect on what’s happening in our schools? I’m not speaking ill of our country. I love our country. If you cut me, I will bleed red, white and blue and scarlet and gold all day because I love our country. However, it is just undeniable that there has been a steady decline in almost every metric in the quality of the people of the United States. What I mean by that? Is the quality of our education, the depth and the strength of our communities, our biblical knowledge, and our fear of the Lord has gone down the tube. Our personal convictions, our morals, the sheer number of people that are under the influence of drugs and alcohol, and all sorts of other addictive substances and videos. We’re talking *********** and other things as well. Social media addiction and all those things as well. Well, because the electorate is so poor, so morally and spiritually and emotionally and culturally. Bankrupt. We elect people that have absolutely no business in office, and when these people go into office, whether it’s at the local level or at the federal level, they hire people that become the bureaucracy that make all of these long term decisions that we all go by that we didn’t ask for. And then what we’re finding out 20 years later. As a result of a pandemic, let’s say is what has been happening in our schools for all of these years because we’ve. Needed the education of our children, the raising of our children to these so-called professionals. These so-called professional educators. And so the problem becomes OK, well, these people do not have our values. They do not share our values. They do not share any measure, any sliver of the fear of the Lord. And so naturally, these books will find their way into these libraries. Because that’s what they care about and they care about converting your children to their ideology. We did a podcast a couple of epic. Loads ago where the homosexual choir, the male homosexual choir group, is literally singing about converting your children were coming for your children. This is not a game to them. They know exactly what they’re doing and they’re deliberate about it. And so where I was going with that is that I mentioned how pen America’s ideas of parents rights being what it is. They also believe that. Let me just. Let me just read verbatim what they say on their website. This is Pen America’s continued idea of parents rights. While parents and guardians ought to be partners with educators and their children’s education, you hear that they ought to be partners, OK? They ought to be partners with educators and their children’s education and need channels for communicating with school administrators, teachers and librarians, particularly concerning the education of their own children. Public schools are, by design, supposed to rely on the expertise, the ethics. And the discretion of educational professional to make these decisions in too many places. Today’s political rhetoric of quote parents rights is being weaponized to undermine and intimidate and chill the practices of these professionals with potentially profound impact on how students learn and access ideas and information in school, so that what we’re complaining about what they’re doing. Which is silencing the parents, usurping their. Authority deliberately seeking to convert and change their children. They’re accusing parents of doing to them. And what’s incredible about that is the fact that they’re saying we are professionals, we know what’s best for the children. Parents rights have no realm and no authority here because we know what’s best for the children.

[MCG]

Yeah, I like this. You said that the quality of the electorate, I don’t think the quality of the electorate is a problem. I think the quality of the people is the problem.

[Jay]

Isn’t that the same thing? We are the electorate, the people that can vote the. People that are well.

[MCG]

Well, yeah, I guess what I was going to say is that the. Will make up the electorate, and because the people are bad, see electorate are bad. That’s where I was going with that. So yes you.

[Jay]

Yes, yes. Yes, you’re absolutely right. Yes, yes, you’re absolutely right. That’s what I was trying to say. Thank you for that correction. Absolutely right.

[MCG]

You’re correct, but also you know what just come to mind because remember, a time ago 2 income household was not a popular thing, you know, before the Industrial Revolution and all that stuff. It was more. We can even go back and say when we were more farming community where the entire family were farm and then. Can come to the point where the father now can make enough money to raise his kids, and the mother can stay home. And then he come to a point where what happened? Inflation, excess inflation kind of draws the mother out of the home. While it’s not just inflation, it was also the right the family into them and all these other things. But inflation draw the mother out of home. What has our current president been doing since he got into office? Excessive inflation. So I might be wearing their tinfoil hot here, but I’m just simply saying if there’s a way for them to draw the mother out of the home again. Because remember, during the pandemic, a lot of mothers came home and start taking care of their kids, and a lot of them haven’t. Gone back. Into the workplace. Yeah. So is this inflation a way to draw that parent? That model, especially back into the workplace because hey, you can’t survive on one income. You probably could because inflation was so calm on the Trump and calm before that under Obama. Well, now we’re going to raise inflation and I’m going to judge the parents of the homes that don’t have no choice but. To send their kids. To the government indoctrination centres, AKA public schools. So anyways, but it goes back here, she said. Who decide what all kids get to read? No one decide what all kids get to read. I as a parent get to decide what my kids gets to read. But I can tell you who doesn’t decide it. It’s not the teachers, it’s not the school boards. It’s not the libraries. So. Who gets to decide what my kids get to read? I’m their father. I decide to. Not a teacher at the school board, and I won’t send my kids to government indoctrination centers anyway. But again, as I said until yesterday, society have always wanted to protect kids from the filth that’s in the world, and today we just, like, give them all. So where do we draw the line to the field that kids are? Able to see and read the line as we joined. Please. Well, if the government go online and I say OK, that line is not drawn close enough for me as a parent, I can decide that. And as a pair, someone else, you can decide what you want to give your kids, but don’t make decision for me and everybody else that don’t want the kids to have that fill. If you want to have that.

[Jay]

Field give it to your kids. No. OK, so here’s what they’re saying. They’re saying that if you don’t want that. Both you can go to these media centers, these school libraries, and you can get an opt out form that doesn’t allow your child to partake in whatever book that is. Well, see. Here’s the problem with that. When we allow that when we make that the solution, the problem is that the standard. The default is debauchery. We’re going to have all of these terrible things on the shelves, and if you don’t want it, you have to say that you don’t want it where it should be the other way around. Let’s have a level of decency, and if you want to go the debauched route, you need to go up and out of your way to go that debauched route. We’re not going to make that. Easy for you to go ahead and do that, but at the same. Time I understand what they’re saying. I wanna try to be charitable because we have to share a country with these people. But at the same time, I understand what their concern is about the banning of books. Once you start banning books, where does it end? I understand that argument. That’s a legit argument because. When one of the other things that is not mentioned in this interview between Joy Reed and Tiffany, Justice is that in response to a lot of the so-called book bans in Florida and in Tennessee, Texas. There were liberal parents who were filing petitions to ban the Bible in these media centers and in the libraries of these schools, and so, understandably, if it’s a tip for tat thing where you have a deep fundamental rift and you don’t know where it’s going to and I can understand why you would think a book ban would be just as bad for the left as it is. For the right, I get that. I understand that. OK, we’re on the same page there, but when you’re talking about the deliberate decision to expose children to adult content. That’s where we really have an issue there.

[MCG]

Well, we’re gonna get to that because they do talk about that in some later clips, but it goes back to this. We have to have some sort of foundation, right and.

[Jay]

The countries bifurcated you have, yeah.

[MCG]

I understand that, but that doesn’t change the fact that God is our creator and he set the standard for our moral values. Whatever you want, accept that. That’s fine. But again, it comes down to this in my mind. Who has the right to educate children? That’s parents. But for the government indoctrination? Enters. This would not be an issue, so we have to come back and say, hey, where are we willing to draw the line? And you have a point there, but let’s go to clip three and see what Joy Reed. Has to say, well, this is.

[Joy Reid]

The question. Again, the books that are being banned. I wanna give you just some.

[Mrs. Justice]

No books are being banned. Well, no joy. But I wanna be clear. No one’s banning books. Write the book. Print the book. Publish the book. Put the book in the Public Library. Sell the book. Right.

[Joy Reid]

Hold on, hold a second.

[Mrs. Justice]

We’re talking about a public school library. Children don’t have unfettered access to the Internet at school. Mm-hmm. I did a a FOIA records request and and. And I wanted to see what kinds of Internet sites are banned in schools. So we’re gonna talk about banning right. And and the subject matter in the books that moms are concerned about are the same things that kids don’t have. Access to on the Internet, so it it just feels very hypocritical right now. Why is no one out there protesting for, you know, free the Internet in?

[Joy Reid]

Schools let me, let me give you an example of some of the books that have been removed from. Shelves as a result of the activities of organizations like Moms.

[Mrs. Justice]

For anybody, we’re not gonna talk like moms. For they’re gonna talk specifically moms for them. So if it’s.

[Joy Reid]

Hold on. No, no and absolutely.

[Mrs. Justice]

I’m happy to have that conversation with you, George, but we’re gonna be specific about the actions of moms.

[Joy Reid]

Absolutely absolute.

[Mrs. Justice]

For the beach. Ohh. 100% because I can’t be possibly responsible for every single parent.

[Joy Reid]

Sure, but your organization is the lead. You’re the leading organization that’s doing this. You have chapters all over the.

[Mrs. Justice]

In America, right?

[Joy Reid]

Country and other organizations are following your lead, and pen America has listed they have posted the list of books that have been removed from shelves as a result of these activities. Let me just read you a couple of them and Frank’s the diary of a young girl mouse, which is a book about the Holocaust and graphic novel gender queer, A memoir. All boys aren’t blue. Beloved Martin Luther King junior. And the March on Washington Ruby Bridges goes to school Slaughterhouse 5, The Color Purple forever by Judy Blume. I could go on these. For books that are not only popular in some cases are classics, Toni Morrison’s the bluest eye.

[MCG]

You know, I’m going to shoot it over to you, Jay, but you know what? She did. Here, right and Frank, the diary of a young girl Holocaust slash race, Mao Holocaust, slash race, gender queer ****, LGBT propaganda. These are the categories I’m putting them in. These are might be the categories there in, but these are catering. Putting them all boys in blue.

[Jay]

What’s that? OK.

[MCG]

**** slash LGBT propaganda, beloved slavery, civil war times Martin Luther King Junior of course, and March of Washington.

[Jay]

OK.

[MCG]

Raise civil war stuff. Ruby ridges go to school. Race slaughterhouse. I think that has to do with race as well. The Color Purple race and the Blue Eyed race so.

[Jay]

Slaughterhouse, I think, is an anti war book, yeah.

[MCG]

Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I think some race might be important, but anyways, the point is here, you know this how you cushion the LGBTQIA propaganda in with the race and the stuff because a lot of parents may not even have a problem with their kids reading.

[Joy Reid]

Oh I.

[Jay]

Did not notice that man.

[MCG]

Like Martin Luther King Junior and the match to Washington or Ruby would just go to school. But however, what? What? What they really are opposed to and which they really should be opposed to other pornographic books like genderqueer or boy they blue. And this book is getting all these things. As I said, parents should decide whether they want their kids to read.

[Jay]

She sandwiched it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[MCG]

Any of these books are any book in particular, but. When you start sandwiching these books, it would be extreme. Books like Gender, queer and stuff like that. And it’s not just the words you’re reading. Some of these books have graphical depiction.

[Jay]

Graphical but also. It’s not even they’re not even describe it. Yes, the pictures.

[MCG]

Let me I’m saying like pictures, literal pictures in the books of what the book is describing.

[Jay]

But not only that, they’re not even describing it or talking about it in a respectable or even academic. It’s all very vulgar language swearing and the vulgar words for whatever appendages or whatever violent actions that are happening. So it’s not just graphic, it’s also absolutely explicit and vulgar as well. And you and I didn’t even notice us what she did. She took a classic. Like the diary of Anne Frank. And then she took Ruby Ridges and goes to school. And then she sandwiched all of the LGBTQ stuff in the middle, which is absolutely insane. I did not notice that that was deliberate, because when you start rattling off a list of things, people hear the first two or three, right. And then they kind of tune out a little bit because they’re like, OK, this is the. List of books that are banned and if it’s diary of Anne Frank and if it’s Martin Luther King and all of these other ones, they already associate all of the other ones. Their brain kind of tunes out and says Ohh, you know these are all classics. These are all good books to read. These are all great things to read and that’s actually not the case. And as I said, we used some of the resources that were in that interview to see exactly what’s in that book. It’s not just explicit. It’s not just graphic because there are depictions. Of these things, it’s also vulgar in its language, so we should also point out that when she says books like Martin Luther King and the watch, the March on Washington, these books. Books that have been rewritten with the social justice and woke ideology weaved with them. Now I have a very unpopular opinion about the civil rights movement. I have a very unpopular opinion about Martin Luther King. That’s beside the point. The point is that that particular book that she was talking about was written in the 20 tens. Three late twenty 10s, possibly early 2020, and there’s a retelling of the story from the lens of woke ideology and. I’m black in the United States, and if I saw that book, and if I were about petitioning for books to be pulled off the shelves, I would have that book pulled off the shelf as well. But people hear Ohh Martin Luther King and they just automatically think ohh, we know what could be possibly wrong with Martin Luther King. What they don’t understand is that these books can have an offensive sounding titles, but because it’s revisionist in nature. And it’s teaching child. Friend a revisionist view of history. That’s why the parents are objecting and the parents have every right to object to something that has been quote volfied and tried to pass off as an acceptable education or acceptable books to read. And I’m not sure I understand why. There’s an insistence of the presence of these books in school libraries. OK. Full disclosure, questionable books have been in school libraries for a very, very, very long time. I think the pandemic really just kind of peeled back the curtain and allowed parents to see. Whoa, what in the world is going on here? I remember being in the ninth grade and there was a wall of books right to the left of the door. As you’re leaving the Media Center, the overwhelming majority of those books were romance novels. Romance novels, and if anyone knows what romance novels, what they have in them, they are very graphic and explicit depictions, not depictions, but descriptions of physical intimacy between men and women and some books, men and men, depending on what the storyline is and so questionable book. I have been in the library for a very, very, very long time. It’s just that now parents are 1020 years behind the curve and realizing Ohh wow, this is what they’re actually teaching our students and parents have a right to be angry because we’re trusting these people with our children and these people have sought out to pervert the children. You know, they will make the argument that these are people’s stories. And people need to be seen and people need to be heard and different perspectives. Different experiences need to be explored through the avenue of literature through the avenue of books. But there’s a problem with that. There’s a way to explore these topics. 2 dive into these topics without. Deliberately setting out to pollute the reader. We have to be very, very careful with sin, whether it’s the depiction of it, the discussion of it, of course, the behavior aspect of it, because sin contaminates sin, destroys sin, pollutes. And so if you want to talk to people about the issue of say. Sexual abuse. There’s a way to do it without pulling the person down. With you without contaminating the person into seeing and hearing and feeling and thinking all of those things. That are described that are depicted in these books. Benneth Peters Jones was the wife of Bob Jones, the third, if I remember straight. And she had an upbringing where that was the case in her childhood. She talked about it all of the time, but she talked about her experience in such a fashion that uplifted people, that shone a light on the problem. Them. But she didn’t glorify it. She didn’t tease out every gory detail and every gory experience, but she shined the light on the issue called the send out for what it was and called people to turn to Christ. In light of that particular sin, however, that happens to be in that particular situation, and she was talking to fundamental Baptist. Circles and no one in the Fundamental Baptist Circle banned her, and she was talking about these very same things. Why? Because it’s how it’s done. Because of how it’s done. There is a way to do it where you don’t pollute the people that are listening to you at the same time, it seems like there’s this glorification, this commiseration in victimhood. And you just have to layout all of the gory dirty details and let others commiserate with you and become filthy and dirty and wallow in that sin with you, or wallow in the sin that have. Then, without there being any redemption or any hope or any turning to the Savior, it’s no I was pulled down. I was dirtied. I was sinned against. And so I’m gonna pull you down with me. That’s what’s really happening here. And that’s what the members of Moms for Liberty are fighting against. And so that’s something that we should take into account as well.

[MCG]

Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head right there. And the question begs though, because this is the ultimate problem. Well, at least one of the problems with this who gets to introduce your children to things like these? Because if it is going to be the public school teacher or the books that the library give to them, we have a problem. Shouldn’t it be parents who introduce the kids to the birds and the bees and all this other stuff and even some of the fields that are around them?

[Jay]

Right.

[MCG]

Sure, you should be the parents in a protected environment. You can introduce the kids to certain things and say. This is what the Bible teaches. Hear this is what these people are doing here. This ain’t right. But this is right. Yeah. And model that for their kids. But no is an indoctrination. They want to introduce the kids to it. They want to make sure the kids grow up and be like they’re rather to be like the parents. But let’s go on to click 5, clip 4, actually.

[Joy Reid]

Let me give you an example of.

[Mrs. Justice]

Well, I’d like I’d like to answer your question. Yeah, so you just mentioned a list of books. And so monster Lobby doesn’t have like a National Book list. There was never a list of books that we put out and said parents be concerned about these.

[Joy Reid]

One, so please do yes.

[Mrs. Justice]

Books. Right? We didn’t do it because we want our parents to be effective advocates. So when moms are going into the libraries in the schools, when they’re seeing what their children have access to, when they go to speak to the Superintendent or the principle, they have accurate information, right? They’re effective advocates. You can just go online to a catalog in your children’s.

[Joy Reid]

And where are they getting their? Information from.

[Mrs. Justice]

Library and you can see what books are available.

[Joy Reid]

Without reading the book, what is no, what is 1 moment? What is booklooks.com?

[Mrs. Justice]

I I’m aware of a website calledbooks.com where parents can go and see some of the books that other parents are. Concerned about?

[Joy Reid]

Booklooks.com has been used in Florida extensively in counties like ice Live in Broward County, live for 14 years, OK in counties like Broward counties like clay, counties like Escambia Moms for Liberty activists are using booklooks.com, and it’s essentially a Cliff notes for books. So you go through without even having to read the book. I’m gonna just hold it up so our audience can see what it looks like. This is the one. For all boys aren’t blue, which is one of the books moms for liberty has.

[Mrs. Justice]

Everyone should go and see the content in this book that’s such.

[Joy Reid]

To have her so.

[Mrs. Justice]

A good idea, Julie?

[Joy Reid]

And So what happens? Is you can do keyword searches and find certain keywords like rape you can find.

[Mrs. Justice]

Key. Yeah, sure. Or **** rape or ***** those. Those types of words. But like, so let me finish.

[Joy Reid]

You you can, you can. Find all sorts of keywords. Wait, hold on. Wait, wait. My question then.

[Mrs. Justice]

OK, great. Sure.

[Joy Reid]

You can answer I’m gonna give. You time to answer, but I gotta ask your verse. And So what you find is the keywords that you find the N word. Anything words like you just used and you’ll get out of context passages from the book. And then based on that.

[Mrs. Justice]

No. Yeah, that’s the question.

[Joy Reid]

Moms for Liberty members are going to places like Broward County School Board meetings reading out of past out of context passages from these books, and then demanding that the school board remove them. So what? That is the way. Yeah, the question I’m asking is what is the expertise that you have and other moms for liberty advocates have to decide that a book, an award-winning book, like All Boys aren’t blue, isn’t appropriate for students to. Read what a what a.

[Jay]

Tragedy alright. I was trying so hard not to lose my mind listening to that. Clip. Ohh goodness. OK, I’m sorry MCG, go ahead.

[MCG]

Alright, firstly joy Reid. It is booklooks.org.org.

[Jay]

And everyone should go there.

[MCG]

Appearance is an excellent resource, especially if you decide to put your kids in public school. I don’t know why you would, but if you so happen to put your kids in public school books looks that OG is an excellent resource for you to get a Cliff notes. As Joy said of the book that your kids. May be exposed to yes and then why should I have to read the filt to tell my kids they can’t read the filt? If there’s so so data I can check and say OK, this book is filled well, I can, you know, decide. OK, in 5 minutes. No, you can’t read this book. And in what context can you talk about homosexuality, involvement with kids? And it’s appropriate especially not their parent. Yeah. You. Know I use.

[Jay]

For those of you that are listening to the podcast and you can’t see him, see GI. He’s just at a loss for words. Just kind of threw his hand up and I I’m flabbergasted as well. I went to booklooks.org to see what the hullabaloo was about and it made me grateful for the site, and now I’m even more convinced that I don’t need any so-called. Context because there’s no scenario in which such graphs. Thick content or vulgar content is even remotely acceptable if they were trying to get their point across, it could have been done without the immoderate and unrestrained descriptions, and not just explicit. As I mentioned, vulgar, actually, actually vulgar, and so when Joy Reed says quote expertise, what she means is. What pen America said before Ohh the school expert, the teacher experts, these people that. They’re the intelligentsia. We up here and you peasants down here. You need to hear what we have to say because we know better. We went to school for this. But in reality, what’s happening is that indoctrinated K through 12 students are being accepted into these indoctrination factories called American universities. And they’re going into these indoctrination camps. Called teacher education. And they are spitting out indoctrinated teachers who are. Absolutely blinded and sold to this ideology so that they can go out and indoctrinate and and blind the children. When we look at it in that light, there’s absolutely no reason why we would believe it and trust any of these people with our children. And I think that parents need to be empowered. Don’t let these people scare you away because they are the experts. And she used the word like award-winning why should you bend and quote award-winning book called All Boys are in blue. This so-called award-winning book is written by. People who prescribed to a particular ideology and they form all of these academic sounding organizations for themselves by themselves to congratulate themselves when they make their books, and they give it awards. So that they can propagate it to the rest of the world and say this is the standard, and if you don’t like it, well, you’re a bigot. You’re stepping on parents rights. You’re not the expert. You don’t know it’s a means to undermine the parent. You don’t need a college education to know. That you could get a point across without stepping into those deep, sinful waters. We’re homeschooling our boys, and it’s amazing to me how the boys have been able to learn to read simply using the Mcguffey readers, the Mcguffey readers. I’m sure folks listening to the podcast know what they are. They’re able to learn to read and to explore many cool things about the world. Without being exposed to that. And so, you know, if we wanna talk about award-winning, what does God say about the book? Does that book hold up or match up to the standard? And Philippians 48, where the Bible tells us to focus on those things that are good, that are true, that are pure, that are lovely. Does it meet God’s standards, or are we so a captivated or enslaved to the fear of man that we will allow? Any synth into our home just because it’s been approved by the world or by the intelligentsia or by professor so and so parents have the right to decide what those books should be.

[MCG]

But here is a double standard, though, because you’re talking about standard. Just go to YouTube and search for. Parents reading these very books to the school board members that parent teachers meeting or school board parents meeting 100% of them has been shut down and been pushed out of the meetings because they were reading inappropriate content at the school board. The very same books that they’re given to. Your kids. They don’t want to sit in a meeting where a disgruntled parent is reading the same content and not only that. Yeah, double standard. Again, if you take a picture of some of the contents of these books and post them without any filter on YouTube, YouTube will either remove the content. Don’t make it you to have this thing where you have to sign in to prove you’re 18. What they call it, they will censor it or make it adult content. So you have to sign in to see it. YouTube will do that. Yeah. YouTube is saying it’s not appropriate for us to show it. The school board is saying it’s not appropriate for us to.

[Jay]

Right.

[MCG]

Hear it? But it’s OK for the kids to read it, to take it home to ingest it under.

[Jay]

One of the case maybe if Tiffany justice had read any excerpt from any of those books live on air, they would have quickly shut that thing down. They would have quickly shut it down. It’s unacceptable and they know it is. And parents, I can’t stress this enough. I’m talking to all of us, myself included, when these so-called. Professionals, when this intelligentsia, or whoever they are, these educational professionals say that they know what’s best for your children. Let’s take it from their own lips.

[MCG]

And no.

[Jay]

Ohh yeah go.

[MCG]

Ahead, most of them don’t even have children, but go ahead.

[Jay]

Most of them don’t even have children. They even believe in having children. But we’re going to go back to Penn America because Joy Reid keeps quoting pen America. I was on Pen America’s website. And they had a frequently asked questions section where, you know, I think one of the questions was, are there pornographic books in schools? And this is Penn America’s answer. I just lifted it verbatim because I could not believe what they said, quote, librarians and educators choose books. For their literary and educational value, books banned in American schools do not fit the well established legal and colloquial definitions of quote, *********** or indecency. Material can only be deemed obscene if it meets 3 criteria outlined in the Miller test, which asks if the average person applying contemporary community standards would find that a work taken as a whole 1 appeals to prurient interest 2. Depicts or describes in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct specifically defined by the applicable state. Eight law and three lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value. So in the high school that I grew up, I mentioned the wall of books and how 90 or 70% of it were romance novels, graphic depictions of physical intimacy. And that’s only words. These books have pictures. Actual pictures and I mentioned before, it’s not like they’re using the standard medical term for male and female anatomy. No, they’re using vulgar terms that are considered swear words by any dictionary that you would use online by Webster’s dictionary. Any of these vulgar words would be considered swear words. These are the book. That moms for liberty are seeking to pull off the shelves by their own definition, the books that have been banned are pornographic by their very own definition by this so-called Miller test that they purport to hold to. It’s completely indefensible. And the fact that these so-called educated experts believe. That this is acceptable shows how morally bankrupt and completely incapable they are to be determining what our children read, what our children should have access to. They’re incompetent. They don’t have that authority. They’re wrong. Period.

[MCG]

Yeah, let’s go into the other clip because I think they get a little bit more into expertise.

[Jay]

OK.

[Mrs. Justice]

In this one, what is what a tragic story of a young man who’s anally raped by his adult family member. So you have incest, rape, pedophilia, joy. You said you let me answer, so I’m gonna answer for you. And what?

[Joy Reid]

Our expertise.

[Mrs. Justice]

Context is a ***** ** ***** acceptable for public school? Just. I mean, that’s my question to you. Tell me what the context around. Owned the ***** ** *****, or the rape of a minor child by a. Teacher thank.

[Joy Reid]

Hold on a second. No, no, no. Wait, hold.

[Mrs. Justice]

You we’re talking about public.

[Joy Reid]

No, no. School one moment. Alright, so now you’ve asked me questions and I’m gonna. Answer it OK. Well, who is the main character? What’s the name of the main character in all? Boys name are blue. You’re asking. Me right now you just name me very specific information about this book. So you’re presenting yourself as somebody.

[Mrs. Justice]

Expert it’s the gentleman, the.

[Joy Reid]

Hold on to who’s the main character?

[Mrs. Justice]

The the main character is the author.

[Joy Reid]

Who’s the what’s his?

[Mrs. Justice]

Name George I believe is his first name.

[Joy Reid]

Because you’re giving. Very specific information that.

[Mrs. Justice]

Is you’re asking me to remember the name of an author? It’s the name of the author. Doesn’t Joy we’re talking about.

[Joy Reid]

Yourself as an expert. You just remembered very specific things. Here’s my question. Here’s. You didn’t answer my. No, no, I’m. Gonna. I’m going to answer your question.

[Mrs. Justice]

Great. I would love to hear.

[Joy Reid]

That absolutely well, I. I’m interviewing you. You’re not interviewing me, so let’s just make sure. It’s a conversation. OK, sure. So what I’m saying to you is that as you are not an expert in this book.

[Mrs. Justice]

I don’t. Hold on. No, no, no. Hold on a second. Is inappropriate for one moment. I mean, let’s get real.

[Joy Reid]

This book is a full contact story, as you said of the authors experience. Why is it your right or a moms for liberty activist? Right to say that a parent who wants their child to have access to this book, which gives a personal experience of this author that they that why doesn’t a liberal parent, for instance, or a parent of an LGBTQ kid, why don’t they have a right for their child to just have access to this book? Why is it your right to say they can’t?

[MCG]

You know, she said. What expertise? Do you have my question to her would be what expertise do you need to determine felt? But you know what The thing is when you’re trying to win an argument at any cost. You remember this commercial dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb.

[Jay]

I was like, what does antacid have to do with?

This. Yeah, got you.

[MCG]

Well, he didn’t say down, Mr. Thomas, but anyways. What expertise do I have joy. I’m a parent. Yeah. What other expertise do I need? But again, she doesn’t answer the question. Incest, rape, pedophilia. Some kid can identify with it. When is this appropriate? Because the kid can identify with it. You know, here’s the thing. If you want kids to read this book, buy it. Check it out from the Public Library. It has no plan. In a school where children can have access to it, plain black and simple, that’s a simple solution. Why do we need to put that field in the schools?

[Jay]

She’s being completely disingenuous. Let’s not even engage in her particular argument. Her argument is that ohh kids and parents need access to these books. Why do you feel that you should deny access? Listen. The problem of access is a thing of the past. In this information age that we are in right now. You could jump on Google and have access to anything that you want. So the people that would want to have access to this literature if we can even call it literature, they can have access to this literature. Without having to pollute the rest of the school without having to expose the rest of the kids to this filth I mentioned before that they said if you don’t want it, you should fill out an opt out form and that way your kid won’t have access to it. But that’s actually not true. Because any student could walk into the Media Center, walk into the school library, and the book is on the shelf, they can pick the book, take the book from the Shelf, Open it, look through it, read it, and put it back. And they never had to check it out. That opt out form will only prevent your student from checking the book out. But if it’s on the shelf, they are still. Exposed to it. So what I’m saying is why? High is the standard, so low for decency. If we have a group of people that absolutely feel like it’s important to have a graphic book depicting things like what they mentioned, that shouldn’t even be just spoken aloud, why don’t they just we have the technology, why not have it? Password protected right? Protected opt out. Protected electronically. And if you, as I say, LGBTQ parent, want your child to read that. You have access to it and we don’t have to have access to it. We don’t need to see it on the shelf. My kid doesn’t have to go into the library and be exposed to it. So this argument about the lack of access is completely disingenuous. It’s a farce. Like you said, she’s just trying to win an argument. There is absolutely no scenario in which access is a problem. The problem, I think. We have in the world today is a little bit too much access. If you can make that argument. Yeah. And so and I.

[MCG]

Ohh definitely.

[Jay]

10 these people that we are talking about that we are talking to, that we are fighting against, I mean, there’s an evil spiritual power behind them. Ephesians 6 makes that incredibly clear that we’re not fighting against the flesh. We’re fighting against spiritual wickedness in high places, principalities, the enemy. Who wants. The pollution and destruction and the tearing down of our children, this is one of the many ways to do it. When you expose children. To these adult things early on, it has a warping effect on them. There’s just no denying that there is absolutely no denying that. And so it’s not a good faith argument that she’s making there. She’s talking about experts, experts, experts. Again, I made my point about that. These experts are morally bankrupt, and they have absolutely no authority. There’s no reason why we should trust them with the education of our children.

[MCG]

You know, going back to the days when the dinosaur roamed the earth, when when we all had to go into office, get up in the morning and commute how many miles in traffic trying to get to? Work and then COVID happened and then all the dinosaurs died and we can work from. Home. Well, during that time I remember that I went to our website at work. The name of the website bassproshop.com and I got a message on my computer that says that. This website has been blocked. Why? Because you can buy firearms on the website. No, I don’t quite remember if I was going to buy Photoshop to look at firearms. That is a possibility, but I more believe I was going to look at some. Thing else anyways, they blocked their website. Bass pro shops the outdoorsman, but yet I could have gone and read any of these books online. We could have gone to any of the other filthy website that they won’t block. My point is this. Yeah, they know.

[Jay]

They know.

[MCG]

It’s just the ideology, because The thing is Bass bass pro shops is blocked because they figure no one should.

[Jay]

That’s why I don’t believe.

Have gone? Yeah. I don’t believe she believes what she’s actually said. I don’t think she.

[MCG]

She doesn’t. She was caught on a hot mic a few weeks ago, cursing Joe Biden, saying that he’s a warmonger or whatever she said.

[Jay]

Believes what she said.

[MCG]

But when the cameras on, she’s smiling, grinning. Uh, say all nice thing about.

[Jay]

Huh. And advocates for it, right?

[MCG]

All think about Joe Biden. They don’t believe what they say. But anyways, you’re listening to the Removing Barriers podcast. We are discussing Joy Reid versus mum for liberty and their viral discussion about book banning. We’ll be right back.

[Jay]

Don’t really want to sing, yeah.

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[MCG]

Alright, Jay, we have been discussing the excellent wisdom of Joy Reid versus mums for liberty. Here is the 6th clip that we want to.

[Mrs. Justice]

Look at. So again, we’re talking about incest, rape and pedophilia.

[Joy Reid]

And each parent no one, no, no, no, no, no each parent. Has to decide. What is appropriate for their child to read? So I want you to answer. I’m gonna ask it one more time. What is your right to tell a parent who wants their child who might feel seen by this?

[Mrs. Justice]

So let’s have a great.

[Joy Reid]

Worry. Why don’t they have the right? Why don’t they have the right as a parent to say my child can have access to?

[Mrs. Justice]

My gosh.

This book, if a child feels seen by this story, that means that they have been the victim of a predator. That means that they have either been raped by a family member, they they they’ve experienced rape some.

[Joy Reid]

And your proof of that is what?

[Mrs. Justice]

You just said that that you feel seen by this.

[Joy Reid]

What’s your path for that?

[Mrs. Justice]

They they make not what I’m saying. You’re no joy. But if a child has been raped, we should do a lot better.

[Joy Reid]

You’re now making assumptions about it, but let me give you an. Than put a bow. You’re literally creating a story behind a child that you don’t know.

[Mrs. Justice]

Now in the library Shelly, we need to give.

[Jay]

Just can’t, I can’t.

[MCG]

This is just totally awful. Ohh Joy, you said it.

[Jay]

Yes, she said it.

[MCG]

I had a coworker like this that you would argue like this and you would just like, you know, do you have two brain cells that can rub together? I remember this thing. We’re coworker, just like this. She would. Use analogies or use examples and then when you take her example to the logical end, she will ask the same question. Like Joy we just did. As I said, she’s not trying to be honest here. She is trying to win an argument and again. But to say? Dum dum dum dum dum. That’s for joy Reid.

[Jay]

But OK, so here’s the problem there, right? We still have to share a country with people who are like this, who believes things like this. I don’t think Joy Reid actually believes what she’s saying, but there are people out there. Who actually believe this sort of thing? I remember watching a Tim Cass segment where Emma Vigeland was debating this very thing about these terrible books in schools. Lance of the source as well. They actually say that they see nothing wrong with these books in the schools. These are people. Who actually ******** belief that it’s a good thing to have these books in the school and we have to share country with them. We have to share these public schools with them. We have to share the public space with them. We have to find a way to live and get along. So the question is, how do Christians do that? I think that in these cases, Christians. Really have to get off the bench and engage their neighbor. Talk to their neighbor one-on-one to engage them on these particular issues. Issues and share the gospel with them and show them what thus saith the Lord, and to show them the logical progression, the progression that we’ve been able to see in the last two years two or three years right before our very eyes, since the pandemic, how detrimental it’s been, not just to the children, but to families and to the nation as a whole, how it divides. How it destroys there’s nothing about it that brings people together. Christians really need to be on the forefront of pointing people to the gospel of Jesus Christ because again, we are not wrestling against people here. We are in the sense that these people have given themselves over to this ideology and they believe it. But the Bible says in Ephesians chapter 6. If I could just read it quickly, it says finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the Wiles of the devil. This is just one of the many Wiles of the devil. Verse 12 for we wrestle not against flesh and. Blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness and high places for every joy read there is a CEO. There is a politician, there is somebody that’s high up and behind that. My person is the enemy himself. It’s the world. It’s our own flesh. All of these things that we are fighting against. This is not a merely political or merely educational battle. This is spiritual warfare.

[MCG]

Well, we know they don’t believe. Some of the things they teach because they don’t. Live that way.

[Jay]

They don’t.

[MCG]

Live that way. Joy Reid, as far as I know, is a married mother in a house full of a husband and a wife. Obama has two daughters. He’s with his wife of many years. Joe Biden has been married for 40 plus years. They don’t live the way that they’re pushing on.

[Jay]

People and none of their children are educated in this ideology. All of them went to private schools and and things like that.

[MCG]

Exactly, but not only that. Remember when Nancy Pelosi was their House Speaker, she was giving a speech, and they were going to get rid of certain gender terms. In the House, when they referring to like I think they were getting rid of stuff like mother and father and stuff like that. And then right after that, she went into a speech and guess what? She said. I’m a mother. I’m a. Grandmother, did you just say that?

[Jay]

And you’re gonna get rid of.

[MCG]

That language, they don’t believe what they it’s pure politics for them, but anyways.

[Jay]

So the Christian Ephesian 6 continues. What should we do about it? We should stand there for having our loins girt about with true. Proof. And the left would have us to think that this is their truth. Truth is relative. Truth is, whatever we feel like it is. If you’re a boy, you should feel like you’re a boy. And if you want to be seen in these obscene books, then that’s just your truth. And there is one objective truth. And that’s the word of God. And Christians really ought to quit. Being ashamed of that and quit seeding ground to the enemy on that have on the breastplate of righteousness. Verse 15 shot your feet with the preparation of the Gospel of peace. We’re not really going to strike fights with people, but we are going to share the gospel with them that they might have peace as much as these people. Follow their ideology. They are not living a life of peace. They are not at peace within themselves. That’s why they’re taking the drugs and the puberty blockers and doing the surgery and hacking themselves and cutting themselves and all of these different things. They’re not at peace with themselves. They’re not at peace with their neighbors because their neighbors don’t know how to. Cracked with them. They’re not at peace with God because they’re at odds with him and they’re continuing in their sin. These are very miserable and unhappy people. And I’m not saying that, so I have to point fingers at them and say haha look, it’s you. It’s more like a ohh my goodness. If not by the grace of God there go I Lord please use me to reach this person that is caught. In this ideology, that’s absolutely destroying them. Verse 16 says to take the shield of. Faith, wherewith we shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. We must have faith that the word of God is true, and that he says what he means. And he means what he says when he says that male and female created he, them Christian, are you standing on that, or are you just kind of saying, well, you know, some people may feel differently? Are you seeding that? Ground. When God tells you to go talk to that person at the gas pump or at the laundromat or the child that has come to you, that has gender confusion and you feel somewhat, there’s a trepidation, right like that on the TikTok video. She said, well, you know, I don’t believe that. But I also don’t want to say something against trans people. That’s the fear of man. And will you take up the shield of faith that says that? With God, there is no respect of. Persons and that God will give you the words to say when it’s time to say them and that God’s word is true. Will you take up that shield of faith, the helmet of salvation, the sword of the spirit. This is how the Christian is to fight back. It’s not all gloom and doom. I don’t want to sound like a black pill because.

[MCG]

Yeah. Don’t forget the gospels here in the gospel.

[Jay]

Yes, the preparation of the Gospel of peace, absolutely sharing the gospel with them. I hate to sound so blackpill because when you listen to people like Joy Reid, we’re sitting here. You can’t see us because it’s an auditory podcast. But all of us, we’re kind of pulling out our hair and. Just can’t believe the things that are coming out of her mouth. And then when you hear these things, it’s possible to become so black pilled and to give in to despair. But there is no reason to give up hope or despair. God’s word is every bit as efficacious as it was from the beginning, and we just have to trust God and take him at his word and engage these people in love with the preparation of the gospel of peace.

[MCG]

Here is clip 7.

[Joy Reid]

Let me show you a form. This is a form that can be obtained in Broward County, Florida. I’m gonna show it to the audience, and then I’m gonna show it to you. This is called the opt. Yeah, please. I’m gonna hand it to you. It’s called the opt out form. OK.

[Mrs. Justice]

Can I see it? Thank. So much.

[Joy Reid]

An opt out form would allow any parent because you said you are in favor of parental rights. I am. It would allow any parent to opt out of their child being able to take books out of the library without their parents permission. OK, so that moms for liberty, why not advocate that every school in America have an opt out form so that a parent who doesn’t want their child to access? A book, like all boys aren’t blue, right? That they can make that choice, because then each parent, including a liberal parent, a black parent. A parent who wants their child to read a book about African American history do.

[Mrs. Justice]

They get. They want children to.

[Joy Reid]

Read books and not just opt out for yourself rather than tell other parents what they can. And cannot have their children.

[Mrs. Justice]

First of all, I think what you’re talking about here is a wonderful step in the right direction. We should be having conversations about this. This is about local control. A lot of these decisions are making at made at the local school board level. Mm-hmm. And that. Where these decisions should be made and there should be vibrant conversations sure about what’s happening in our public schools and what kids have access to. Joy, however. Mm-hmm. Maybe we could just put all the books with all the graphic sexual content, the ******, the rapists.

[Joy Reid]

You’re not just I’m. Let’s do. I’m so sorry. Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me.

[Mrs. Justice]

Back room. Let’s put a curtain up in the live.

[Joy Reid]

1st of. They used on one moment, one moment.

[Mrs. Justice]

Video stores the. Moms, you go to the video store and they put those books, videos with ***********.

[Joy Reid]

For liberty, the books that moms for liberty, the books that Moms for liberty, the book city.

[MCG]

You spoke a bit on this already, Jay, so I’m not going to say much on it except just to agree with you because. It would not work.

[Jay]

No it wouldn’t.

[MCG]

Because as you said, what is going to stop the kid from going to the library and grab it off the shelf?

[Jay]

And sit down and read. We have to remember that children have a flesh too, and the devil is actively engaging them on the level of their flesh to pull them to see and to do and to experience things they ought not to be partaking in. So if you simply have the book on the shelf. You have to assume that your kid is gonna go pick it up and read it, because the flesh don’t trust your kids flesh. Don’t trust. Poor flesh and don’t trust your kids flesh so this whole opt out thing that Joy Reid is talking about as I mentioned, is disingenuous because it does not keep the filth away from the children.

[MCG]

Joined with different work is somewhat similar to what Miss Justice was saying Mrs. Justice was saying is that either the librarian will have full control over those. Books. And if a kid wants to read that book, we’d have a common ask for the book. The librarian can check and see. Does this kid have permission to read these books that are off limits, whether they’re locked away or something? And then maybe that will work. Yeah. But other than that, it’s not going to work because the problem is not whether they can check the book or to take it home. The problem is access to the.

[Jay]

Built. Yeah, every single marine has a rifle assigned to them or pistol, depending on what rank you are. But there are certain weapons and the Armory that you don’t just have access to just because you’re a member of the unit. There’s certain machine guns and grenade launchers and things like that. You can just walk in there and say, oh, hey, hey, can I get that machine gun or can I get that cause that’s not you have to #1. Have the credentials as it were, or you have to have the particular. West. And you can’t just walk in there and and request these things. Well, it’s the same thing with these books. If these controversial books or something that you want to have access to, have the credentials, let’s say it’s this opt out form and then that way you can go to the librarian who has full control to the access of these books, just like the armorer would. These other weapon platform. And if they cross reference your name, your ID with the list of kids that haven’t opt out for that particular book because your parent for some reason thinks it’s OK for you to read that book. Even fine. That way we’re not impeding on your access to these books. There’s also called precious access. The access is still there, but the students that don’t need to be exposed to that nonsense are not exposed to it. So her argument was completely disingenuous about the opt out form there. That makes no sense.

[MCG]

All right, here’s clip 8.

[Joy Reid]

Behind the curtain I I’ve seen I have a slide tapes of what moms for liberty does. And you all go into school board meetings and you read graphic stuff.

[Mrs. Justice]

We could just do that. Right. Is that sounds appropriate? So this is some generous conversation. There is a there is America used to understand that there was something called age appropriate content.

[Joy Reid]

No, it’s not. Beloved, beloved, right. And here’s we have to again rating. Yeah. Movie again again. Ruby Bridges goes to school, is on the list of books that Moms for Liberty has absolutely removed. Absolutely. Not it absolutely is. Let me ask about the people who are making the decision for their parents because you have not answered yet why a liberal parent or an African American parent, we have my, no, no, no one moment. But you’re still trying to make decisions for all the kids. Here are some of the parents that are.

[Mrs. Justice]

Parents who are Democrats who are members of our organization.

[Joy Reid]

Filing or some of the the, the YOUR advocates? Mm-hmm. Bridget Ziegler, the Moms for Liberty co-founder, the wife of the recently ousted Florida Republican Party chairman Christian Ziegler, who allegedly was involved in threesome same sex. Recent Mrs. Ziegler was was removed from the school board at which she was a leader. You. She wasn’t. One moment. School board. OK, you have Lauren de Paula. She was making book ban requests in Alachua County, but then records show that she and her husband didn’t live there. They sold their home in that county. Carrie Blair in Tennessee. Who was.

[Mrs. Justice]

Has more in this from the.

[Joy Reid]

Arrested for property theft charges after allegedly stealing from target, skip scanning and target. Why should those three people get to make decisions about what other children should be able to read? Other parents? Children should be able.

[MCG]

So when you cannot win an argument, you go to character assassination. Now, I don’t know the people she mentioned, but regardless of their lifestyle, if they say kids should not be exposed to these things that have been the standard in this country for hundreds of years until yesterday. But again, I’m not even going to defend these people. My pet peeve here is that. She said liberal parents or African American parents like come on what in the world is it that what African American parents accept all the filth out there? Then no African American parents out there that will say I don’t want my kids to have this felt. So why is it that liberal parents, African American parent, that’s so annoying, that’s so annoying to me. It’s like, you know.

[Jay]

It’s a cult. It’s a cult. It’s a cult. If you’re in our cult, you walk in lockstep with our ideology, even if you don’t really believe it, that it’s a cult.

[MCG]

I guess if you don’t know if you’re for me are bad, then you ain’t black, huh?

[Jay]

Yeah, that’s exactly the attitude that they have. Black people are a monolith. Black people are stupid. Black people are this side or the other. They’re gonna buy all of this stuff, hook, line, and sinker. This is our ideology. Walk in line with us or get out.

[MCG]

If someone is a hypocrite, that doesn’t invalidate the truth. And if you’re black, that doesn’t mean you are all fulfilled. Yeah, well, she said African American. So if you African American doesn’t mean you’re fulfilled either. Yeah. Anyways, we’ll conclude with this last clip. Clip 9 of Joy Reid’s excellent wisdom.

[Mrs. Justice]

Do you know that I served as a school board member from 2016 to 20?

[Joy Reid]

Are you gonna answer my question because we don’t have an endless time.

[Mrs. Justice]

Answer my question. I’m going to joy. I’m going to answer your question, but I need you to understand that when I was an elected representative, I would sit on that diet and how dare I. Sitting there as an elected representative judge a parent when they would come to the podium to speak and advocate for their child, because as we started this conversation will end it. Every parent has a fundamental.

[Joy Reid]

Right to their parents. So let’s make sure that we can end on up joy.

[Mrs. Justice]

So appearing of incident and I would not stand and. A point of agree that a parent.

[Joy Reid]

Education. One moment, one moment. If a parent. If a parent that not miss Justice, I’m gonna answer. I’m gonna ask my question. Miss justice. Missus justice. That’s.

[Mrs. Justice]

Moment, their sexual orientation or pair race, their religion. That is not what. Eric’s about Mrs. Justice. Yes, ma’am.

[Joy Reid]

If a parent believes that their child should be able to read Ruby Bridges.

[Mrs. Justice]

We believe that parents, that children should be able to read bridges.

[Joy Reid]

Then how can liberty insist that the school board take that book away and then say that a parent who wants the child to be able to read it must purchase it? That’s essentially putting a tax on parents who want their children to read the book your kids get to have books for free that you agree with, but children who want to read. For parents who want their children to read books you don’t like, have to purchase it, that doesn’t sound.

[Mrs. Justice]

Fair. Did you know that in the city that we’re? Bringing in only a quarter of children are reading on. Grade level.

[Joy Reid]

That’s a great point. That’s a great point we’re having. That’s a great point. That’s a great point. That’s a great point.

[Mrs. Justice]

So while this conversation about books and libraries, two things should be happening, we should be talking about literacy rates and the fact that America’s kids are not learning how to read, and we should be having vibrant conversations about what books should be in life. Absolutely.

[MCG]

You know what the bottom line is? I’m gonna treat you over Jay for you to have the last say, but the bottom line here is not even the books, but for the LGBTQIA propaganda everybody in this country would agree that pornographic. Books should not be given to kids, but for the LGBTQI agenda.

[Jay]

I’m really glad that Tiffany justice ended with that point. I was under the understanding that the purpose. Of the schools. Was to educate the children, teach them how to read, teach them math. Teach them these different things. She. Said a quarter only a quarter only 25% are reading at grade level. That means. 75% are not. They hear that statistic properly. A let’s go back to the Mcguffey readers, you want to do that? Let’s go back to the Mcguffey readers. There’s no reason in the world other than indoctrination other. Then pulling your children into the realms, the deep waters of sin, there’s no other reason that I can think of to expose children to these kinds of books. And I think that as I mentioned before, Christians listen. If we didn’t understand that we were in spiritual warfare. For, I think that listening to what these people are saying in combination with what we see a lot of teachers posting on TikTok from their classrooms, what they’re actually teaching. For students. Then let that be a wake up call in terms of what we’re actually witnessing today and parents, perhaps we need to be consistent too in the sense that if we are against these books, these graphic novels in our schools, let’s not bring it into our homes either. Let’s not allow our children to have unfettered access on YouTube. In all of these different mediums. And we don’t know anything about it, and they aren’t being exposed to these things. I couldn’t believe what I saw the other day. I was talking to MCG about it. I was watching a news clip from a local news source on YouTube, and one of the commercials that came up that I could not skip, it was at one of those skippable commercials, had graphic depictions. Of sexual intercourse that’s drawn with a pencil. I’m not even sure what the ad was for. It was probably for some medication or something or another. Even the commercials that are coming across are screens on YouTube and on all these other streaming platforms. Are not safe. The enemy is looking for any way to get a foothold into the minds. What our pastor calls the eye gate. The ear gate. All the different gates that we have that let information in the enemy is actively looking to destroy children and parents with this information by means of the exposure. So this isn’t primarily about parents rights. I think this is primarily about standing on the word of God and agreeing with what thus saith the Lord. And he’s made it absolutely clear that this ain’t it. I can’t even put it into different words. I can’t even put it into eloquent sounding ending to say that this is. Absolutely, fundamentally, terribly wrong. What we’re allowing the government to do to our children.

[MCG]

Marinator. Oh, Lord comet.

[Jay]

This is the removing barriers. Last, if the podcast or the blog were a blessing to you, leave us a rating and a review on your favorite podcast platform. And don’t forget to share the podcast with your friends, removing barriers, a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

Thank you for listening. To get a hold of us to support this podcast or to learn more about removing barriers. Go to removingbarriers.net. This has been the removing barriers podcast. We attempted to remove barriers so that we all can have a clear view of the cross.