Episode 149

In early October of 2023, the terrorist group Hamas launched an attack on Israel via land and air that took the nation by surprise. Thousands of Israeli civilians were brutally killed, tortured, or taken hostage. The entire globe has very strong opinions about it one way or another, but one of the most disturbing developments is the blatant support for Hamas coming from many on the left here in the United States. Why is that? Many Christians around the world believe this attack has End Times significance. Why is that? What is the history of this conflict, and how must it be evaluated through a biblical lens? In this episode of the Removing Barriers podcast, returning guest and Bible teacher Leopold explains the history of the land, the people, and the conflict from a biblical worldview and helps us vote these recent happenings through the lens of biblical truth.

[Benjamin “Bibi” Netanyahu]

I want to make clear Israel’s position regarding the ceasefire. Just as the United States would not agree to a ceasefire after the bombing of Pearl Harbor or after the terrorist attack of 9/11, Israel will not agree to a cessation of hostilities with Hamas after the horrific attacks of October 7th. Calls for a ceasefire. Are calls for Israel to surrender to Hamas? To surrender to terrorism. To surrender to barbarism. That will not happen. Ladies and gentlemen, the Bible says that there is a time for peace and a time for war. This is a time for war A. War for a common future.

[Jay]

Thank you for tuning in to the Removing Barriers podcast. I’m Jay, and I’m MCG, and we’re attempting to remove barriers so we can all have a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

This is episode 149 of the Removing Barriers Podcast, and in this episode we will be sitting down with our resident Scholar, Ministere Edimof, to discuss the Israel-Hamas war from a biblical perspective. Leopold is a pleasure and welcome back to the Removing Barriers podcast.

[Leopold]

Thank you so much for inviting me to this podcast, and it’s a pleasure always to be with you guys and talk about what matters in the eyes of God.

[MCG]

Yeah, definitely. And tell us about your YouTube channel again, because you have a lovely YouTube channel and. That we love to promote.

[Leopold]

Yes. So I would say almost two years ago I started a YouTube channel, basically an apologetic ministry where I’m trying to share the truth of God’s word, the gospel, and try to reach out to Muslim in particular, because having grown up in a Muslim country. I have a heart to reach out to Muslims with the truth of God’s word and also all these other what we call Christian cult that are teaching wrong doctrines and misleading many in the process. So like the Jehovah witnesses, the Mormons and other faiths in general that are basically just sending. Against Christianity. So I started the ministry and so it’s been 2 years. It’s been a journey and I’m just excited to be, you know, sharing. With whoever is listening, hearing and basically more dedicated toward French speaking community, I would say around the world. So, but you know, also reaching out to people around the world, in English speaking as well. So that is basically the core of our ministry. But from time to time we try to. Look at the actuality in light of what? God’s word is telling us to try to understand recent event, and this is precisely why I’m excited to be talking to you guys about what recently happened in Israel, which caught the attention of the whole world. Though, thank you for inviting me guys.

[MCG]

Yeah, definitely. Tell us the name of your YouTube channel. I don’t think you mentioned the name.

[Leopold]

Yes, Edimof E, E as in Echo, D as in David, I as India, M as Mary, O as Oscar, F as in Frank, so and I have a website edimof.org you can also find some of those videos on our website.

[Jay]

Hi, this is Jay. MCG and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to removingbarriers.net and subscribing to receive all things, removing barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at removingbarriers.net/donate, removing barriers, a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

Alright, Jay, before we. In Leopold on this topic and everything, just give us a background on what happened on October seven that we’re going to bring in Leopold to give us their history of Hamas and the Middle East and stuff like.

[Jay]

That OK, so just a very bare bones review of what has taken place in the land of Israel. And in Gaza, in the morning of October the 7th of 2023. The Palestinian militants that were led by Hamas living in the Gaza Strip conducted an attack on southern Israel. They launched a ton of rockets on southern Israel cities and at the same time about 3000 militants attacked via land and air. Like literally, they had militants gliding in on paragliders. With automatic weapons semi automatic weapons, shooting and killing civilians indiscreet. They conducted over a dozen massacres Hamas did conducted over a dozen massacres and who knows how many more. This is still a very fluid situation. Things are still happening that we’re learning about, but indiscriminate killing. Women, children, babies, just anyone they saw on site killed, tortured. Abducted. They attacked a music festival. I believe it’s called the Rahim Music Festival that was taking place there and discriminate, killing and abduction and torture there and so. This caught the Israeli state completely off guard. They were not prepared, they did not see this coming, although many people wondered why not, since their intelligence agency is one of the best in the world. And in addition to that, the very following day Benjamin Netanyahu declared that the nation is in a state of war. They gave Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. 7 to 10 days to get out of the city before they launched a full scale attack on the Gaza Strip, which they have done. Gaza, the capital city, is surrounded. There are over 11,000 casualties on the Palestinian side, more than 28,000 wounded and nearly 3000 missing. This is for Gaza, for Israel. So far 1270 have been killed, 7000 or so wounded 239 have been captured or abducted. 28 of them are missing and. And food, fuel, electricity, basic resources have been cut off from the Gaza Strip. There’s a full blockade in place on Gaza, and there are Israeli troops on the ground in Gaza fighting in response to this terrible tragedy, this terrible atrocity that took place on the morning of October. 7th the reaction around the world has been well, let’s just say it’s very polarizing. There are people that are very staunchly pro Israel and people that, for whatever purpose that escapes me, pro Hamas. And are cheering on Hamas. And so that’s something I think we’ll talk about later on in the podcast. And to explain why is that, why are there people cheering for Israel and people cheering for Hamas, the United States, even though we are allies with Israel, we have expressed verbal support for Israel. We have positioned some troops, but we have not. Jumped into the fray. I believe that with the situation being as it is, Biden has some really tough decisions to make, and perhaps our resident scholar could help open our eyes in terms of what all of that means, because many Christians believe that there are biblical proportions to this. This has in time significance. And then there are those that say it’s not quite as bad as we think or. One way or another, people are reacting to this globally very, very strongly, and perhaps here on the Removing Barriers podcast, we can discuss as to why.

[MCG]

Alright, well, let’s bring in Leopold. Leopold, tell us the history of Hamas. What is this evil organization?

[Leopold]

Thank you MC JNJ for this nice introduction to our topic today. So Hamas is a terrorist organization. And it was created in 1987 by a Palestinian called Shah Ahmed Yasin and Sheikh Ahmed Yasin spend a lot of time in Egypt and if you know Egypt, they have this radical Islam. Make organization called the Muslim Brotherhood and and as a matter of fact they came to power some years ago and they were trying to install Sharia in the country, but they met opposition because Egypt being not a Muslim country but having a diverse religious group. I would say the general which is in power. Now took over to stop the progress of this Islamic group, so he spent some time in Egypt, the founder of Hamas, studying about Islam and. Feeding into that radicalism, Islamic radicalism, that characterize so many organization around the world, and we’ll come back to that. And he came back to Palestine and in 1988 he created this organization called Hamas. And Hamas is an Arabic word. Which actually mean the Islamic Movement of resistance. Yes. And basically so. In their constitution of Hamas. That’s why it’s so important to go back to those the foundation of why did they create their organization they have. The ultimate goal of this organization, and they said in the beginning of their charter, they say Israel, they stated clearly will exist and will continue to exist until Islam, they sort of. Seem to be like the representative of the entire Islamic community around the world. So until Islam obliterate Israel as it has obliterate others before Israel. So basically they’re telling us the way Islam expand across the world. From the 7th century, when Mohammed came. To be the founder of this new religion, the way he expanded his religion, they want to use the same meaning to expand Islam, not just in Israel, but around the world. That’s their objective. And then in article seven of their charter. This is what they’re saying precisely. The last judgment, the last day will not come. Until Muslim fight and kill the Jew. And this is in reference to their sacred writing in what they call the harddisks, which are the tradition of Prophet Muhammad, right, which, by the way, were written over 200 years after the death of Prophet Mohammed. So. But casting aside the reliability of these reference, which I would say along with the Quran right, it is the sacred text, at least for the Sunni, for the Sunni community, which is the majority of Muslim. The Shia don’t recognize the hardis, but the Muslim community. The Sunni community in general, they recognize these hardees as sacred, right? So if we go by that and Hamas is a Sunni organization and we will talk about maybe the other terrorist organizations surrounding Israel, some of them are. Yeah. Meaning from Iran, I would say supported by Iran and then some are Sunni. So Hamas is a Sunni organization. And this article seven of their charter is direct reference to some hadis. And when we talk about hardis, we are talking about the some what we call authentic hardis you have Buhari. Which is recognized as authentic. I would say account of the life of the Prophet Mohammed of these traditions. Muslims in general recognize that these are authentic. They’re not fabricated because they have over 600,000 hadees and I would say. More than 90% of those hardies are. OK, they’re not reliable, but the 6000 left according to the Muslim tradition, it goes through what we have a chain of transmission right from the time of Muhammad up to the time of this Imam Buhari, who lived in nine to 10 century. He compiled all these traditions. And he remove he extirpate. All the fabricated hadees and he left what they call the authentic 1. So what I’m gonna refer to is an authentic hardest Muslims across the world recognize this as reliable. OK. And if we could Sahi Muslim, Sahi Muslim. He was an imam, also from the 10th century. 2921 this is what he say explicitly, and if you put it side by side with Article 7 of Hamas. You don’t see any difference. This is what they say it say. Even Omar Omar was the 2nd caliph. After Abu Baker, who was the first guy he took over, and we’ll come back to this alif Omar, when we want to understand what is happening right now in Gaza. So Omar reported a last messenger, Prophet Mohammed, as say. OK, so the Prophet Mohammed is saying according to Sahih Muslim, he say you will fight speaking to the Muslim you will fight against the Jew. So this is explicit against the Jew and you will kill them until even a stone would say come here Muslim. There is a Jew hiding behind me. To him. And we have several references in that same hadis 2921 C, 2921 D and even Sahih Bukhari we have similar quotation clearly calling for the killing of the Jew. OK, so they’re getting it expressly from their holy. Writing so, say Buhari 3593 and this is narrated Abdullah bin Omar, he say I heard Allah’s Messenger saying the Jew will fight with. With you and you will be given victory. Over them so that a stone will say all Muslim there is a Jew hiding behind kill him so you can see these similar references. And by the way, as we are talking this reference to say that telling the Muslims that they’re going to have victory over the Jew, this is wishful thinking. I would say. Because in contrast to what they are saying, when we look at the scripture, we know what the end will be, OK and we have multiple attestation. The Quran does not have one single attestation of what they. The thing so far we can see Israel is surrounded by more than 20 Arab nations, and they have an express goal, even though some of these Arab country would not obviously stated only those terrorist organization come out clearly to say that, but they have. The steak if you want in the nation of Israel and in particular Jerusalem, and we will come back to that as we’re talking about, we try to understand what is happening. So all these Muslim countries surrounding Israel and enlarge the whole entire Muslim community, whether it’s Pakistan, India. They believe they feel that this war between Palestinian and Israel is a war also between Israel and all the Muslims around the world. Because their Palestinian Muslim, I would say believers basically are telling them to join the fight because this is a. Fight against evil against Israel, including actual America, because they’re not excluding America in this. And we’re gonna see some quotation where they explicitly call out not only the Jew, but also the Christian to be killed.

[Jay]

So this war has end time significance for them. Oh, so they’re playing for keeps them.

[Leopold]

Yes, they believe the end time will not come until they’re able to obliterate, to eradicate completely Israel, because that’s. Their scripture are calling them to and it’s very explicit and very clear. There’s no question, only those Muslims who are ignorant, who don’t know what their own holy writing are saying are thinking. These Palestinian are just simply like victim. They’re just being, I would say.

Right.

[Leopold]

Massacre by Israel without putting this conflict into it historical context and also biblical significance, I would say.

[MCG]

Yeah, it’s sort of like the Leopold, but I want to ask you this too, because it seems to me that you’re saying this is a deeply religious war. It’s not just, you know, Hamas or Gaza complaining about land. So where does land play into this in terms of the Palestinian believe that all of the land is theirs and it will believe all of the land is theirs? Firstly, what roles does is role play in this? And then what role does the ownership of the land play in this?

[Leopold]

That’s a great question, by the way. I don’t believe the real issue is like, you know, as I stated earlier, their main. Goal is the eradication of Israel and of the Jew, and there is a. Spiritual significance behind that and that’s the anti-Semitism and we we can come back to that as well which did not start recently or even during the time of Hitler in the Second World War. No anti-Semitism is rooted back. And we can go back all the way to Genesis. Genesis after the fall. When Satan tempted Adam and Eve, he was cursed by God, and from that time he start fighting every single plan of God. After the fall, God had made a promise that he’s gonna send his son to come into this world. Become a. And and to die for the sin of mankind. So we can be restored in our relationship. So Satan, if he’s able to destroy the seed of Israel, the seed of Eve that was gonna come from Eve, he will make God be a liar. And he will have victory of a God. That’s what is at stake spiritually in this war in Israel because. Satan is behind this entire, and that’s why you see not only Muslims that have this anti-Semitic feeling or we have beyond Muslims even sometimes some confused Christian one side with those Palestinian because they don’t understand what is at stake because Satan is behind. To insight this hatred of the Jew, which, like I said, did not start right now, even did not start at the time of the Second World War, if you. Remember, going back, even in the Old Testament, there was this queen who took over the power. I believe it was in the Northern Kingdom, northern or southern, not southern Kingdom. Sorry in Judah from his son who was killed at a liar, if you remember. And what did she do? She assert the power and kill every descendant of his son of a son. OK, except one. If I remember his name was Josh. He was hidden somewhere by I think his son.

[MCG]

Mm-hmm. Yep.

[Leopold]

In law, and until he became of age to rule as a king. And they decide to bring him on and to exterminate that Natalie again. He was of the seed of Jesus Christ, who was gonna come later on and had they killed him, he would have basically, I would say, violated God’s plan or God’s. Word OK. Because God said the seed that’s gonna deliver the world from sin is gonna come from Israel. It’s gonna come through the line of. The skin. And thankfully, God, being a mighty God, he created Satan himself. So how can Satan win over God? So God was able, despite all the machination, all the I would say the opposition from Satan? He’s still. Able to make his plan come to pass and you take it in the 1st century when Jesus Christ was born. What happened when the Magi came? To visit. Heron, who was the king at that time of Judea. He was threatened by the birth of this new king. They called Jesus Christ and as a result, what did he do? He asked to exterminate all children who are two year and younger because he thought that child who was born, if I kill him. Then he will not take my power. And again that Satan’s behind trying to fight God’s plan to bring the Messiah when the Messiah came. They keep again attacking the Jews when the temple was destroyed in 7080, they were sent to exile, by the way. There’s two reasons for anti-Semitism today. I mean, throughout history, I would say first one is because the Jew have disobeyed God’s law, they rejected him. They went after all the God. So what did he do? He punished him. And the punishment was to send them. All over the. Being and we can come back to that the curse place on the Jew by Almighty God. So he’s the one who did it. He sent them into exile to be persecuted, to be ostracized, to be killed, to be like, consider third class citizen all over the world. And we have fact that can back that. So that’s the first reason of anti-Semitism. Because God had cursed a Jew because of their disobedience, and because they rejected Jesus Christ, first reason and the second reason for anti-Semitism Satan. Satan is trying to fight God’s plan. And God’s plan is through Israel. If you look at the entire Bible, over 90% talk about Israel and you see so many Christians through history, they thought, especially after you rejected Christ in the 1st century and then after they got sent to exile, you know, after 78. So they thought the New Israel was the church. They thought the Christian have replaced the Jew, but that is not true. And throughout history you can see even some giant Christian, I would say I’m thinking about Martin Luther in particular, or even John Calvin. For instance, they were anti Semite. They were against the Jew because they thought God had rejected this Jew. So we need to persecute them. We need to replace them. The Catholic Crusade also, you have even in Second World War, the poor Pius 12 I believe. He wrote a letter to Hitler supporting the Nazi against the Jew. And that’s why we cannot even hold it simply to the Muslims. It goes beyond even the Muslim because it’s Satan who is behind this hatred of the Jew. Now the first God is the one who sent them to be hated. The second thing Satan is fighting God, and he’s using that basically to build this. And you see. Today we’re witnessing all over the. You see American universities, Cornell University, my university, that students who were prosecuted by the Federal Authority. Please you take Harvard University. I saw some videos around disturbing and people who are neither Muslims nor Arabs or anything having this hatred for the Jew. And that was professor in the Bible. That is gonna happen. They will be hated. All over the world. And through our history, we have witnessed that now Hamas to come back to them, their explicit goal is to root them out, to kill them, and to represent the Muslim because they are in that land. And I’ll come back to the issue of land that. You raised so Hamas. Yes, the Muslim community in General Jerusalem is their third holiest site. That’s the heart of the war right now. Because of that, they believe we need to root out those Jew who are occupying Jerusalem because they should belong to them because. The mosque that was built where the Temple of Jerusalem used to be, they built it in that very sight, and I was telling you earlier about Omar. The second caliph. He is the one who built that first. Most remember when they start expanding Islam. They went all the way to Israel. And because Mohammed in the Koran in Surah 17 and we can read it if you want verse one and two, this is what the Koran said. It say the servant of Allah in the night Journey took out like a donkey. And this is like a vision or a dream that. Mohammed had. And through that night journey, he went to Jerusalem. OK, from Jerusalem. He went up to the 7th Heaven. And by the way, it’s through that nine journey that they receive the five prayer that the Muslims are doing every day because they used to be 50 prayer. By the way, if you read through the so he when he went to heaven, he negotiated with God through the help of Moses, by the way, because Moses was on the 5th heaven because they believe there’s heaven, heaven. So he was going up and down. And Moses was guiding him, telling him, go negotiate with Allah to reduce the number of prayers from 50, reduce it to 45 to 4540, et cetera, until it reached 5. What does that remind you?

[MCG]

Yep, lot. Yep.

[Leopold]

Genesis 18, not exactly. So it’s a copy of that story, but they brought it into their own. But let’s keep that aside. So, Mohammed, in that night journey, he went to jail. And wherever the site of the temple was, from there he packed his donkey and he went to heaven. OK, when he came back, he took back his donkey and he went back to Mecca, OK. So now the Muslims now, as a result of this and by the way, the pagans in Arabia at that time. They knew about Jerusalem and remember we are in the 7th century here. And what do you know about the temple of the Jew? It was. Destroyed. We had only ruins there. Now the politics to challenge Mohammed. They’re asking him. So can you tell us about this mosque that you’re talking about? Basically, is the center of prayer. Call it the center of prayer, the furthest mosque. It’s called Al Aksa in in Arabic. Arasa means the furthest and much deed. Much deed means the 10th of prayer. So you have, let’s say the three highest holy site in Islam you have Mecca. It’s called Masjid. Al Haram. That’s in Mecca. That’s the mosque in Mecca, right where Mohammed used to be, to pray and buy. That’s where the cover is. And it used to be a Pagan worship. Before then, you have the second one in Medina when he moved to Medina, call message it Al Nabawi. OK, that’s the second holiest place for Muslim. And guess what? The third holiest place is Jerusalem. And it’s because Mohammed had that dream. Now, when the politics ask him, could you tell us more about this site where you park your donkey, where you say there is a worship center? He said. The Angel Gabriel. Yeah. Show me in a vision, the temple he’s talking about the temple. He say how the temple is. And he described now the politics. Knowing what happened because they knew that temple was destroyed, so they’re making fun of him to tell him this can be true, but Mohammed thought he was misleading them because he never went to Jerusalem. OK. And obviously that vision of dream does not align with reality because he’s talking about the temple that did not exist. And that’s in the Quran Surat 7. 19 verse one and two Muslims are using this today. First of all, even in that Sura, if we wanna just park there and talk about that, it does not even explicitly mention the Prophet Muhammad in that Sura. He talked about the a servant of Allah and people are even debating if it was.

[MCG]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Leopold]

Mohammed, how come they did not mention his name there and then few words down. He talked about Moses. So some people, by looking at the context they may say, oh, no, this servant, maybe he’s referring to Moses because it’s not even clear that he’s speaking about Mohammed. But we just give that to the Muslim just for the sake of argument, let’s say is Mohammed, right? Mohammed did not know what that furthest mosque is. Where is it located and what it is because he just heard about it, that you had a temple, the scent of prayer. He say he went there and that became the holy site to this day. So from a lie. It became something that polarized all Muslims around this issue. And that’s why I say it’s beyond even Palestinian because the whole Islam, including the share in, because it’s the same story in the Quran because they recognize the same Quran, the Shia from Iran and the rest of the Sunni. So because of that they believe this is their land and they need to fight. For I love to eradicate this Jew because the Jews are unclean according to them, including the Christian. They are unclean. The best they could give them is a position of third class citizen wherever they are, and you cannot have a Jew enter their mosque. OK. And by the way, if you go back to history. In 2000. Ariel Sharon was the Prime Minister of Israel, OK. He decided to affirm the sovereignty of Israel in that land, and especially in Jerusalem, because we know the history and I’ll come back to the history. Why the Jew who are claiming their land to be their land, why do they have that right in that land? And what happened? So Ariel Sharon decided to enter. Al Aqsa Mosque that must that, you know, Mohammed had called the fathers must, right. It’s still to this day. It’s called Al Aksa mosque. And the Muslims from 2000 to 2005, they had what we call the 2nd Intifada. Intifada is like uprising of Palestinian against the Jew who they claim are occupying their land. So because of Ariel Sharon entering, he’s a Jew. He’s not supposed to enter. The most so it was abomination for them, right? Because he’s unclean. So that fight lasted 5. Yes. OK. Until actually Israel had to take back control of Gaza that they had removed and West Bank as well. And it’s only in 2005. They withdrew from Gaza and from the West Bank because. During the War of 1960. Seven, right. When a number of Arab country attacked Israel, and by the way, all the war that the Arabs had fought against Israel since independence since 1948 was attacked from the Arab nation and they were beaten by Israel every single time a tiny nation, OK. And that is not random. Because God is on their side, the God of Israel, who is the God of this universe, and in contrast to Allah, we’ll talk about. You can see these are two complete different beings because first of all, the God of Israel. Just to remind, for those who are listening to us, if they are Muslims, the God of Israel even love these terrorists that are, you know, killing innocent people, the atrocity that we saw in October 7, even somebody who committed that kind of atrocity, the God of. Israel still love you because his love and condition it doesn’t depend on what you do, unlike Allah. If you go through the color the God of. Koran he is. How can I say he does not tolerate transgressors? People who are unfaithful to Islam? Basically, you should understand when we say unfaithful to Islam. If you don’t espouse their cause, you are an enemy and you need to be eliminated. And that’s what Christians and Muslims and Jews are enemy of the Jew and I will give you a list of reference from the Koran which clearly say. These are your enemy, and as a matter of fact, even some hadiths mentioned that some Muslim who even went to. Hell, God is gonna use the sin of Christians and Jew to take those Muslim from hell to send them to paradise. It’s in their writing. That’s how much they hate the Jews. And not only the Jew, the Christian. This is why beyond Israel.

[MCG]

Ohh wow.

[Leopold]

The Christians also who are being targeted by this Muslim based on their own scripture. So when you hear some Muslims say ohh these terrorists are not, you know Muslims or you know they are not true believers. No, whatever they’re doing is in line with the history of Islam with what Islam has been known to throughout centuries since the beginning. Sorry, I’ve spoken too much, but.

[MCG]

No, I’m learning a lot.

[Jay]

Before you go on, Leopold, you mentioned early on that you said that you don’t think that this war is about the land because there are spiritual underpinnings here. But Hamas has told the world, hey, the reason we attacked is because Israel has blockaded and we don’t have any food. We don’t have resources. Are they lying to garner sympathy? From the world is.

[Leopold]

They know clearly their target object they are. Dying because now the land issue is just an excuse.

[Jay]

I see.

[Leopold]

Because the real, the real objective and they are not the only one, Hezbollah is another terrorist organization in the north of Israel. They are explicit, objective is to destroy Israel. Why? Because first of all, they want to take control of Jerusalem, which is, like I said, the holy site for them. They cannot admit, you know. Causes or religion. Even the Christian their goal is to chase them out after they’re able to chase all the Jews. That will be the next. Ohh so this is a lie to claim it’s about the land and we can come back to the land because. If you look at the history, also remember when God picked Abraham from Iraq, from U of kale, which is in Iraq in Mesopotamia, and told him I want to send you to this land, the land of Canaan. OK. In Genesis 12, Abraham came to Kenya. And guess where he was living in Hebrew and today? Do you know under whose hand that city where Abraham Live, Isaac Live and Jacob live for over 300 years, is in the hands of Muslims today. It’s in that small West Bank area in the southern South of Bethlehem. And it’s in the head of Muslim now. This is a holy site for the Jew. And if you ask the conservative Jew, they will tell you we want to claim back this land because this is for our forefathers. Now the Muslims use the argument that Ishmael was a descendant of Abraham. So they have claim to that part because they are descendant of Ishmael. That what they fail to recognize, or to admit Ishmael never lived in the territory of the land of Kenya. He moved out, actually. Outside of that land in the Arabian desert and he marry, and this is even in the scripture, it’s in Genesis. He marry none, Jew and Canaanite. And he tied his descendant, married those people and they marry all the people and they get mixed up and the. Arab countries, nations they are descendant from those mix. They’re not even a direct descendant of Ishmael. That’s what they’re claiming. First of all, the Quran does not give any genealogy tracing from Mohammed all the way to Ishmael. It does. And exist they have fabricated outside of the Quran. Even the hard is gonna trace it back to Ishmael. But that’s the claim that I’m making. So coming back to the Hebron, Abraham live in Hebron. Isaac was born in Hebron. And by the way, they were buried in Hebron as well the. What is the site where Abraham was buried? The Cave of Machpelah? Right. It’s located in Hebrew. Sarah was buried there. Abraham was buried there. Isaac was buried there. Rebecca was buried there. Jacob, who went to Egypt later on, was brought back and buried there. Joseph and all of them together. Layer, Rachel. They were all buried in that side in Hebrew. So you can imagine the significance. So the Jew of this location in Hebron for the Jew, yet today it’s in the hand of the Muslims, but nobody talks about it second thing. If you remember Genesis 15, verse 18. God said to Abraham, and we’re gonna give you this land that goes from the river of Egypt to the river Euphrates. Genesis 1518, right? Now if you look at the delineation the borders of that land.

[MCG]

Right.

[Leopold]

It goes through literally 700,000 square kilometers. What does that mean in reality? It covers the entire Lebanon part of Syria. Up to Turkey, part of Turkey, if we go north, then you go E it cover, obviously part of Syria on the east part of Jordan, most of Jordan, I would say Jordan is a big territory even compared to Israel right now even.

[MCG]

Hmm, right.

[Leopold]

To getting close to Iraq that line. And then you go down South in Egypt part of Egypt today belong to Israel based on Genesis 1513, where God has made a promise and this is his land that God has given to his chosen people and who are his chosen people. Did you? The ethnic Jew it’s mentioned over and over in the Bible. Deuteronomy 7, verse six, talked about it, and all the reference in the Bible. Leviticus. Many, many references. So yes.

[MCG]

Yeah, let me. Let me ask you along the line, because you know you listen to mainstream media and all these things, you’re not gonna hear. Half of the things you’re telling us here. Firstly, I have several questions going to my head actually, but should the Bible be a substitute for land deed? Because that’s basically what Christians are saying because Palestinians saying, hey, Israel was scattered and we have been living in this land for I’m teen of years. And all of a sudden they came back and they took it from us. And Christians are saying. A and I’m sure Jews are saying the same thing. Hey, the Torah give us the deed for this land. This is our land. This is all for father’s land and the policy. And say, hey, no, this is our land. So can the Bible be a tighter deed? And should the Koran be a tighter deed because.

[Leopold]

So when you go back to the history, like I said. This is a land that Abraham lived in. Isaac lived in. Jacob lived in for over 300 years, and the Jews are descendant of Jacob. And the Jew were living there. At least until 7080, before they get expelled around the world. But not this one. Even after they get expelled after over 1,000,000 Jew were killed in what was called the first Jew. Which war against the Roman occupation from 66 to actually 73? There was still some Jew living in the land from that time on until the time of independence. What many people don’t mention now was a minority of the Jew who were living there, yet they were still living there. And guess what? The name Palestinian that you hear now today in the news. So many people do not even understand where that term came from. As a matter of fact. After that first Jewish war in 66 to 73, where the Roman destroyed the temple and killed over 1,000,000 Jew. That was like a Holocaust type of. At that time. Then they had the second War, Jewish war, around 115 to 117, I think. And then there was a third. Jewish revolt or war, which was led by a Jewish leader named Simon Barko. And if you know the Catholic, I would say Scripture apocrypha, right? There’s a book called The Book of Maccabee have first and 2nd Maccabee, right. It’s specifically relating the story of the Jewish revolt with Simon Bacopa and the Jew, by the way. At that time, they thought Simon Bacopa. Was the Messiah that they were waiting for. But when they realized that revolt was crushed by the Roman, they found out. Ohh then he’s not the Messiah because the Messiah cannot be crushed, right? The Messiah had to win victory. So after that review. Because the Jewish had opposed like a very strong resistance to the Roman, and at that time the emperor’s name was Adrian. Adrian was the Emperor of Rome, so they were ruling over Judea. And because of several issue like the taxations of the Jew. Also, the Greeks who were living there, they were clash between the Jew and the Greeks who were there. And many other issues and the Roman law being imposed on the Jew, they revolted against all that, and that revolt was crushed. And at the end of it, in 135 AD. So which means there was still some Jew living there around that time. Then what happened, Adrian? Because he was so furious that the Jew were opposing a strong resistance to his attack that he renamed Israel Palestine.

[MCG]

Ohh interesting.

[Leopold]

Palestina and why Palestina? Because it was a derogatory name. To talk about the arc enemies of the Jew, the Philistine you remember. Philistine. In first, Samuel. Second time. Yes, exactly. And you see the Gaza Strip, if you remember Goliad and David, those people were living along that Gaza Strip and.

[MCG]

Oh, you’re there, definitely.

[Leopold]

They were living there at the time of the Jew, when David was king, and after. David, those who came afterwards, so it was renamed by Adrian in the first in the 2nd century actually Palestina because in opposition to the Jew, because they are frustrated, furious about the Jew. So they rename it Palestina in Latin. It’s a Latin term for philistine. And guess what? The Jew will call Palestinians. From the 2nd century, all the way to 1947, just before independence. Those Jew who were living there were called Palestinian. So many people don’t know about this story. They just say Palestinian. This name was user from the Jew, by the Arabs, and calling themselves Palestinian. But guess what in the. Second World War. The Jew were on the side of the ally, but the Muslim who were living there, there were some Arab living there. We cannot deny that. But you need to understand what happened. So they were on the side of Hitler, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who was Muslim, who was in that mosque, Al ASA, mosques that was built. He sided with Hitler against the Jew, and that tells you this hatred for the Jew did not start, you know, in the Hamas war or Hezbollah. No, it goes back all the way. And so there was a Jewish brigade in the Second World War who were fighting with the Allies. OK. And guess how they were called Palestinian Brigade and was comprised of who only the Jew. There were no Arab. In that brigade, yes, Palestinian. And they were only Jew. Now the Muslim can say, OK, and that just tracing quickly the history from 7080, all the way to 1947 Jew were living there and some Jew who were expelled from other country that they were living in, they came back progressively.

[MCG]

Ohh wow.

[Leopold]

To Israel to reoccupy the land that the ancestor had left for generation. In the meantime, some Palestinian after the 7th century. Like we said, the Muslim came and invaded that land and they start occupying the territory around there. But guess what? Israel was desert. There were no activities. Only when the Jews start coming back into the land that the country has been rebuilt, and when the Arab nations around saw the prosperity in Israel, they all decided to come to benefit from it and to reside there. And to claim this is their land and that’s where the whole issue comes. But when we look at history, that land belonged to Israel because they’ve been living there for almost 4000 years. The Arab came after. And guess what, when the British. After the First World War, actually, when they defeated the Ottoman Empire, the Ottoman Empire were occupying that region right after they get defeated, the land that was Palestine, if you want, which was Israel, the entire Israel, which include Jordan, part of Syria, part of Egypt and part of Lebanon, all the OK. Was called Palestine. Yeah. So they decided the British, when they had the mandate over that land, they said we’re gonna have to get a Jewish. State because the Jew have been persecuted around the world and they have a land that their ancestors. Gave them. So we need to give them an opportunity to get back their. And and that’s something called the Balfour Declaration in 1917. And that Balfour Declaration said. You do have the right to go back and occupy their land. Then when they did that, the British allowed them as they’re starting to come back to the land, the United Nation, when it was created, it was called the League of Nations. Then it became the United Nations. So what they did in order not to frustrate.

Right.

[Leopold]

Those Arabs who were living around that land. They decided we’re going to partition this land. November 1947, just a few months before Israel declared its independence. So what did they do? They partitioned that land. And guess what, Israel? The whole West Bank, for example, including Jerusalem, was given to the Muslims, to the Arabs.

[MCG]

Oh wow.

[Leopold]

Israel they were given a small portion, even Gaza. It was not for them. Some portion of land and then further to the South like toward Egypt that was. They’re land, OK. And guess what? When they partition it, they ask the Arab. OK, now we have divide the land. Are you satisfied? They say no. They rejected the proposal. And guess what? Israel. Before the British sign of on that mandate on that land of Palestina in May. 15 that was the time they were supposed to leave 1948. On the eve of it, the Jewish declare independence and that’s where the war broke off in 1948. You had Egypt, Syria and all these Arab country around. They decide they’re gonna fight Israel. But guess what happened? Israel gained more territory after the war. Even the small portion that they were given. By the United Nations. Expand it and they regain control of Jerusalem and all this holy site which belong to the Jew. Remember, I told you about the Muslims with Muhammad, he is claiming that Jerusalem is. The third holiest site for them, but he, yet he never went there. He did not even know there was no temple. Can you imagine when Muslims, either they don’t know it or they ignore that fact? He did not even know that there was no temple in the 7th century. There was some ruin.

Right.

[Leopold]

And that’s the claim of Muslims around the world based on a lie. That this is their land. If you try to remove that Musk in Jerusalem, I can tell you to me that’s gonna be the Third World War that we’re gonna have. That’s where that war is gonna erupt. From that claim that these mosque doesn’t belong here, that will be a reason. For the whole world to go to war.

[MCG]

Yeah, this definitely sounds like a religious walnut, a war necessary over land. But let me ask you this, though. You said earlier that. So went off and into Marie and stuff like that. And then you talk about how the Jews were actually at one point called Palestine or Palestinian. You awesome to talk about the intermarriage of Israel or stuff like that. But an argument could be made that the Jews, the minority Jews that left back when Israel was scattered and was no longer a nation. They too intermarry and I guess some people argue. Hey, there’s probably not a pure line of Jews anymore, so why is it that they have more right to the line, that they’re not pure, but the Palestinians who we know are mix with other Arabs, but they’re not pure? Why is it that one unpure race have more rights than their own unpure race?

[Leopold]

OK. That’s a good question. But you have to put it. In this context here, so you may have some Jew intermarry with those local populations, let’s say in Palestine, that is a possibility, but you still have some Jew who never intermarried. And again because this is God who has decreed that I’m gonna keep these people isolated, the reason why, for instance. The Jews were ostracized around the world. They were coming from 80 different countries around the world. And guess what? They were isolated in their own community, so they did not mingle really with other nation, even where they were. Do you know in Arabia, in Medina, the city called Medina today was founded by some Jew. And yet when Muhammad came with his religion.

Oh wow.

[Leopold]

He expelled those dew and exterminate them and renamed the name of the city the city of the Prophet. Medina today Medine, the city of Medina, is called in Arabic means the city of the Prophet because he expelled those Jews, so the Jew. In some case, you may have them marrying others, but these are, I would say, exceptional case in most of the time they remain among themselves. Why? Because they are ostracized, they are persecuted, they are isolated, so they suffer so many things because of the curse that God has placed on them. Precisely so. In that respect, and then in addition to those who never left for generation, lived there, you had those who had left, but then decide to come back. They were expelled. Like before World War 2, before 1948 many Jew, when they realize there is a nation they can get back their land in Israel, they will actually chase. I will give you an example. In North Africa there’s many Jew who lived there at that time. They were about, I think it was more Africa or Iraq. About 800,000. Written from those part of the world. Why? Because they were expelled there. Possession were taken away from them. So they had to come back to Israel, to the land that their forefathers had. And they remain ethnic Jew because that was the purpose of God. He wanted to isolate Israel as his chosen people with so many restriction and keeping them apart from the rest of the world.

[MCG]

Yeah. Before we go into this work, let me show you maybe a softball because we have talking about all these heavy stuff. Leopold somewhat of a softball here. You mentioned it earlier in passing about the colleges that are supporting Hamas and stuff like that. It’s not just the colleges, is there 2S? LGBTQ. Let me. A+ movement no, as the Bible believing Christian, I think that lifestyle is immoral and wrong. But what is it that they don’t understand about him?

Right side.

[MCG]

Us for them to support hammers when hammers would behead them if they get the chance.

[Leopold]

You see, this is a question I’m asking those LGBTQ why don’t they travel to the Gaza Strip and leave there for, let’s say, a week? Let’s say, what will happen to them after a week? Obviously, between Islam and LG BT Q There is no, no, no no no. The relationship except, except like I said, this anti-Semitic feeling which came from. And Satan is behind this hatred for the Jew. And it’s so odd that these LGBTQ are supporting Hamas because they too, cannot get together. That’s asked them to go to travel to Gaza for a week and work with those Hamas people. Let’s see what happened to them. Because Islam. Obviously is against LGBT. That’s why you don’t have them in their country. Saudi Arabia LGBT 2 cannot put a foot in that country. He will be completely killed. He will be killed and many other Muslim country yet. You see these odd conversions of, I would say interest of hatred toward the Jew that can only be satanic, that can only be coming from sin.

[MCG]

I think he has to do a lot with what we call intersectionality, where they see the Jews as the oppressor and the people of Hamas as being oppressed. And because, you know, it’s almost like the Hamas are black and the Jews are white. So therefore, you know, the big bully white men now is beating up on the black men again. Basically, they’re looking at this.

[Leopold]

But Hamas are not even black. The Arabs, right? So, but they’re looking at, like you say, you’re right. They think the Jew are the oppressor. That’s because they don’t have that historical perspective or they don’t have it right. They don’t understand the whole history of Israel up to this point, and obviously they don’t know the Bible, so they need a savior. Those them are self, the terrorists as well as those LGBT. They need a savior. Because they don’t understand what God’s word said and God is extending. You know, he’s using this opportunity, this atrocity that Hamas has created, you know, to convict, I would say some of the. That the God of Israel is the true God and is a loving God. He want to even welcome this LGBTQ people he want to welcome this terrorist, convict them of their sin, and let them turn to the one and only true God, whose Jesus Christ only Jesus Christ, will be able to save them.

Right.

[Leopold]

From dancing, which is the key issue because they are confused and they are lost and. They need a safe. Yeah. And that’s the heart of the issue. Again, when you don’t have, I would say light when you don’t have the truth. When you think that you know it all, when we don’t know it. This type of behavior you know, would be easy to see because someone who truly understand now again. I want to be clear, we don’t condo. Run the killing of civilian whether it’s on the side of Israel or Hamas, let alone even Hamas. OK, we condemn those because every single human being is created in the image of God, whether he is a terrorist or an Arab, unlike Allah of the Koran, who does not like every human being. Especially if you’re in opposition to what the Quran is teaching, you become an enemy and you need to be exterminated. You know, I told you the Quran specifically mentioned. And I can cite maybe when we go to the second part, I’ll give you those references where they explicitly say you cannot have Christians and Jew as your friend. And it’s clear so they can pretend many Muslim can pretend to be friends to the Jew, but in reality they’re not. But by the way, the attack of October seven on the Gaza Strip. People are saying I heard it from different sources which seems reliable to say that those who were exterminated among the Jew in the keyboards, they were more liberal people. Why? Because they wanted to live with the Palestinian in peace.

Oh yeah.

[Leopold]

They thought, you know, we should end this war. We should just accept to leave one another. And they were having Palestinian come to their cables to live there. And these guys took intelligence from those keyboards and turn it back to Hamas now. And many people, when the Israeli are bombing those tunnels where the Hamas people are.

[MCG]

Oh wow.

[Leopold]

Many people claim ohh these are terrorists, they are oppressed. Just what they failed to realize many of these Palestinians are siding with Hamas. They’re siding with Hamas, so they hate Israel the same way these terrorists and they claim, you know, they are civilian, but many of them, they’re starting with Hamas. But by the way, the reason why Hamas won the parliamentary elections in 2006 when they came. How they chase out the PLO with Mahmoud Abbas and they start leading Gaza Strip, right? 44% of Palestinian voted for Hamas. So when I hear people in the news saying, Oh no, we are civilian, we are not part of the, I don’t buy that 100%. There are many Palestinian who would do what Hamas did if they had the opportunity. So we cannot be naive to say all Palestinian who are not. Actually part of the military branch of Hamas are not against Israel or want to wipe them out. No, we can’t say that. And that’s why. The civilian, I agree with those civilian who hate Hamas and say, you know what, we don’t want Hamas precisely because Hamas did not do anything to help these poor people. When you look at the statistics, they spend between 100 million to 350 million a year in military equipment, yet people are dying of hunger. There is food and security. There’s poverty, they have not built any infrastructure since 2006, yet where they are building these tunnels to store military equipment, and those leaders of Hamas who are at the top, they don’t live in Gaza, by the way. They live in Qatar. Yeah, in Turkey, in their five, seven star hotel and they’re leading the people in Gaza into this and some of them are billionaire, by the way, based on some estimate. But the poor people in Gaza who are suffering, they don’t have the basic minimum to live. They are under their regime and this is a reality. This is a reality. But the whole world is putting a blind eye on that reality to focus on the fact that they are being oppressed. No, these people have no care. For the welfare of the Palestinian, the Arabs, and if there is any Muslim listening to us today, it’s important that they. Know that those who are aware know that Hamas is not there for their own welfare. Their objective is to destroy Israel, not to build the the Gaza Strip, not to build the country, not to provide opportunity for these people. These people have to go to Israel to find job because Hamas cannot. The only job they’re going to provide. Is how to build those tunnels and how to equip themselves with those military. Weapons. That’s the sad reality, the sad reality.

[MCG]

So true. Alright, Leopold, you’re listening to the Removing Barriers podcast. We’re sitting down with Leopold. Minister Arimas, and we’re talking about the Israel Hamas war. From a biblical perspective, we’ll be right back.

[Jay]

Do you have the desire to earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the Saints? Answers in Genesis can help. They provide biblically sound books, CD’s, DVD’s, home schooling materials, VBS materials, online courses, digital downloads, and the Answers magazine. And more. Plus tickets to the Creation Museum and Ark encounter go to the answers bookstore by clicking the link in the description section below, so you too can be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks the reason of the hope that is in you.

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So Leopold, tell us, what does the Quran tell us about Palestine, about Gaza, about that land. Does the Quran encourage or condemn the atrocities that took place on October 7th? And how does it compare and contrast? Well, considering how is the Quran, it would contrast? How does it contrast with what the Scriptures say about how God feels about the land, about that area?

[Leopold]

Great. So let me start by saying interestingly. With all this discussion about Palestinian Arabs, the Jew, the Quran does not mention a single word about Palestine. Not a single word. First of all, they don’t even have a concept. Of the word Palestine. That’s one thing, let alone Gaza. Not one single Rep. As I said earlier, the only reason for these Arabs to be in the line of Israel is because of that mosque, which is the third holiest place for them. And that’s what is at stake. And their Koran is telling them. Unless the Jew are killed. The last day will not come, so they are working basically to usher in. The last days. Not just the Palestinian. But those terrorist organization in Hezbollah, the Yemen in Yemen, the Hooti how much they call in Iraq, all these terrorist organization surrounding Israel, they have one come. To go and those who are even not among those terrorist organization. They may not sell it, but they know what the Quran say with respect to that site because their goal is to establish an Islamic State in that line of Palestine with the Sharia as their law. And they can only do it by eradicating the Jews. Or killing them completely. And just starting with that new state with Jerusalem and Alexa Mosque as the third holiest site. So let me give you a couple of reference here of the Quran. If you take Surat 98, verse five, if there is any Muslim listening to us, they can go to any. Koranic website and this is what the. And they are older. Not else than to serve Allah, speaking to a Christian and to the Jew, keeping religion pure for him. For Allah as man by nature, upright, and to establish worship and to pay the poor due that is true. Religion that’s worse. Right now, verse six said low those who disbelieve, meaning those who don’t believe what Islam is teaching Amor. The people of the scripture now who are the people of the scripture? The Quran clearly said it. These are the. You and the Christians? Yeah, because they have the Torah and the angels is throughout the Quran. He talks about it. So the people of the scripture, at least they recognize that Christian had the scripture and the idle latter. So those among the people of the scripture and the idolaters, those who are the politics and pagans. And worshippers, they’re referring to them will abide in fire of hell. Can you see that? They are the worst of created being this is not. Talking about the Jew and the Christian, that’s why I say when they finish with the Jew, the next target is going to be the Christians, OK. And America being at the top of the list because they say they are the ones supporting Israel. So we need to wipe out the source basically. So that’s in the Quran. Explicitly calling for the killing of the Christian and Jew and calling them the words of creature. Now what God is gonna create human beings and call them the worst of creatures, even if they commit the most atrocious crime like the Hamas people. Did God say I still love them? God say even to forgive your enemy, that’s the God of Israel has nothing to do with Allah. Because Allah does not love those who he consider disbeliever, those who reject him because the Jew Mohammed when he was starting to preach to the Jew in Medina where he was even in Mecca. Many of them rejected him because they know he was a false prophet. He was teaching something that is contrary to God’s word, and I will come back to a detail that I forgot to mention. When the second caliph built a mosque in Jerusalem right after what Mohammed had as a vision.

[MCG]

Right.

[Leopold]

70 years after there was a Muslim ruler called Abdel Malik, he came to power around 690 to 700 AD. OK, by the way, he’s the one who built that Alex Amos the way it is today. 700 Abdul Malik and guess what? That Abdel Malik did because he saw many churches around with very nice architecture and building and the mosque that Omar built several years before, 70 years before was just not good. OK, so he wanted to change that to show that Islam also. Can stand at the same level as these Christian churches that were around Jerusalem and Israel in general. So he built that mosque, A laksa mosque. There the way it. This, and guess what he wrote in inscription in that Al Aksa mosque. He took all the verses in the Quran that are against Christians and Jew and post it. I mean wrote it in the. War of Alex Simons. And to this day, those writings are still there. And guess what?

Oh wow.

[Leopold]

Those writings are that Jesus Christ is not the son of Allah. And of course, rejecting the Trinity, Christians are saying 3 gods when there is only one God OK, on and on. Any reference about to Jesus Christ in the Quran, he put it there in opposition to the Christians who were claiming the deity of Christ. The Trinity and on and on and on, in opposition to what Islam was teaching. And let me give you another verse. And by the way, let me read the commentary from one of the leading Sunni commentator of the Quran. His name is Ibin Katir. He’s from the 14th century. OK. He’s from the 14th century commenting on this verse from the Quran that I just cited. He say Allah. In form of what will happen to the wicked disbeliever among the people of the scripture and the idolators who oppose Allahs divinely revealed book? Now, first of all, this is not. No, the Jew are not opposing, and as revealed book they have the Old Testament, the Torah and then the Prophet whom he said and then this is what he say. The meaning of they are the words of creature. What does it mean? It mean they are the worst creation that Allah has fashion. And created. Who is that Allah? Who can create the worst creature? As far as I recall, Genesis 126 said, or 31 said everything God created. Whether it is animal, plant, man and woman was good on the 6th day. That Allah is telling us here, he has created the worst creature. Who are the Jew and the Christian and those of us Chapter 9, Surah 9, verse 28. This is where you see a lot of violin verse from the Quran because at this point the Jew had rejected Mohammed. They consider him a false prophet. Now he’s attacking the Jews. Look at what verse 28 said, or you who believe the idolater only unclean. So let them not come near the inviolable place of worship. Do you understand? Now, when a Jew or a Christian enter what they call their holy mosque in Jerusalem, there is an uproar because they are being told in their Quran. Let not AJ. You, or a Christian or an unbeliever, or an I don’t like to enter the mosque because they are unclean. OK. If you fear poverty from the loss of their merchandise, Allah shall preserve you of his bounty. If he will. Law Allah is knower and wise. Verse 29 is a fight. Against such of those who have been. Given the script. Right. Who are given the scripture, the Christians, US believe not in Allah nor the last days. OK and forbid not that which Allah has forbidden by his messenger and follow not the religion of truth talking about the Christians and the Jew until they pay. The tribute readily being brought low. You have to humiliate them when you conquer a territory that used to be Christian, you have to create them and you have to make them pay what they call the jesia and consider them as second class citizen. Is that what Christianity teach? That if you win Muslims to Christ, you have to subjugate them. No, you have to liberate them. By bringing them the truth. But this is what and verse 30 said, and the Jew said Ezra is the son of Allah. Now look at this misunderstanding of the Old Testament. They consider Ezra, who was a prophet. The son of Allah, they say the Christians are saying the Jew are saying Ezra is the son of Allah and the Christian who are saying the Messiah is the son of Allah. OK, that is they’re saying with their mouth they imitate the saying of those who disbelieve, of Old Allah himself fight. Against them, how perverse are they? You see all these attacks again, and we can keep going on and on. But I wanna just talk about one more thing. Adding Christians paying for the sin of Muslims to take them from hell, to bring them to heaven. This is what sahim Muslim. This is in the hadis it say Abu Musa reported that Allah’s Messenger said Mohammed is say when it will be the day of resurrection Allah will deliver. To every Muslim, listen to this. Every Muslim a Jew or a Christian and say that is your rescue from hell. Higher. So basically the Christians and the Jew are considered to be the one who are basically paying for the sin of those Muslims who are gonna go to hell and that will rescue them to go to paradise. In other words, if you think about it, Christians and Jew who God will send to hell are the savior. Of these Muslims who gonna enter paradise from hell, basically, and this is in the Quran. I can cite more and more and more, but I will stop here. But I want to bring it back to the scripture which is the truth in God’s word. If you look at.

[MCG]

Yeah, man.

[Leopold]

Joel Chapter 3 coming back to this issue of land, I wanna read it so we can all and those who are listening to us can refer to it. So Joel, Chapter 3, verse 2. OK. But I’m gonna start from verse 14. Behold, in those days. And in that time when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and. Jerusalem I will gather all nations. Listen to this all nations and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat. OK? And I will plead wisdom there for my people and wise people, the Jew, and for MyHeritage. Israel, whom they have scattered among the nation. And guess what they did? Also, they parted my life. And that’s precisely what we are seeing today.

[MCG]

Oh wow.

[Leopold]

All this war to partition the land of Israel again. If we go back to Genesis 1518, it’s clearly delineated today. As I was saying earlier, the actual area of Israel is 22,000 square kilometer when what God had promised to the Jew was 700,000. Square kilometers. That’s the reality.

[MCG]

A fraction of what God gave them a.

[Leopold]

Yes. And that’s why God is say I am angry and I will gather all the nation in the last days. When that final battle is gonna come, he’s gonna bring them into that valley in Jerusalem, and he’s gonna destroy them and all these nations surrounding Israel. And another verse that talks about the cup of trembling Jerusalem is going to be a cup of trembling. And that’s in. Zachariah Zachariah, 12 verse. Two, I’ll start from verse one. The burden of the word of the Lord for Israel said the Lord, which stretched forth the heaven and laid the foundation of the earth and formed the spirit of man within him. Told I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling. And to all the people roundabout. So Jerusalem will be a how do you call it again? What is that expression? A bone of contention, basically. That’s what God is saying here, isn’t it? What we’re seeing today because of Jerusalem, a religious war, even starting from Catholics in the crusade, they came, they invaded the land, they decimate all the Jew who were there. Claiming that now they have become the children of God and the Jew are no longer the children of God that was in the 12th century today with. The Muslims. They’re claiming having right on that land of Jerusalem, but we know the history of Jerusalem for 4000 years because that was the only place where God’s presence on the entire earth could be manifest in the. So that’s sacred and that’s important for the Jew. And God said I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling. There won’t be any peace because. This is all in the working of God and I will make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people. All that burden themselves with it shall be cut in peace, though all the people of the earth be gathered together again. Do you see that tiny, small country of Israel with 7 million Jews, by the way? And by the way, that’s the only democracy in the Middle East. All these, all the Arab nation. They’re not democracy. But if you think about it in the United Nations, Israel is banned from being having their rotating position in the Security Council. Of the United Nations. Yet you have all these Arab nation where they violate human rights, and even in the UN Human Rights Commission, they cannot be part of the committee in the United Nations, they will ban. From that, and guess what? When you look at all this, I go back to numbers, numbers 23, this was like 1400 year before Christ Balaam. They made a prophecy. It’s incredible how the Bible is accurate and we can see it. So if you go to numbers 23, verse 9. Alum is making a prophecy first of all, when the Moabite were there trying to destroy the Jew and they use Balak. The king wanted to use Balam so they can curse Israel. Now verse eight I will start from verse 8. How shall I curse while I’m misspeaking whom God has not cursed? Talking about the Jew? And how shall I defy whom the Lord has not defied? This is the verse now which is a prophecy of what is happening today, he said, for from the top of the rock I see him, and from the hill I behold him low. The people shall dwell alone, and shall not be reckoned. Among the nation do you see Israel with all the nations, Arab nations around? Are they recognizing Israel? No, they would. Alone. And that’s precisely what we see today. Everybody is against Israel, including non Arab country, even trying to make them look bad. But this was professor 3500 years ago. They’re gonna be alone. They’re not gonna be recognized as a nation because they want to be destroyed. And you understand what is going on in light of what God’s word is telling us.

[Jay]

Leopold, as you take a short break there, what would you say to people who say that the modern day state of Israel is not the same as the Israel that God speaks of in the scriptures is that? True. Or is that just some sort of secular, you know, trying to understand what’s happening in the world today without having to deal with what the scriptures actually say?

[Leopold]

So obviously those who are secular who don’t know what the Bible said they’re going to say, this nation of Israel is not the same as that nation we used to know that was living under the theocracy, for instance, right. We know today. Israel as a nation is a secular nation, and the Bible prophecy many Jew even will not even recognize the God of Jacob. And we know how the Jews themselves, even in the midst of this atrocity because they rejected Christ. They’re separated from God, and they need the gospel the same way the Muslims. In the gospel. To hear the truth of God’s word, and God is calling out to some of the Jew, and I know they are blind. It, as the scripture say in Romans, they are blinded until it is the end of the Gentile. The Gentiles are ruling Jerusalem today. We know that Israel does not have full control of Jerusalem. So the gentles are around occupying. Those are up in particular, but I would say it’s a secular state yet God. But is in the midst of every single thing that is happening to Israel. We talk about the war. Those six war like 19485667 and 73. They won all those war sometime. Being not even well prepared. Why? Because God was behind. Because what is at stake in Israel is God’s word, by the way. And let me take you to Jeremiah before I forgot, Jeremiah 31, what is happening today in Israel? It’s God’s word which is at stake. The word of God. Is 31 because the word of God cannot be broken. God said. To Jeremiah, Jeremiah 31, verse 35 to 36. This is what the Bible said, 35 said. The say. The Lord which give the son for a light by day and the ordinance of the Moon and the star for a light by night. In other words, as long as there is a sun. And a sun going down with the moon at night which divide the sea. When the wave there of roar. The Lord of Horse is his name. If this ordinance meaning the sun rising and setting OK if they depart from before me in other word. Only if there is no life on Earth, basically. Rule the Nation of Israel disappear. This is what God said, he said before me, said the Lord. Then the seed of Israel. And who are the seed of Israel? The Jew? This is Jeremiah speaking also shall see. Peace from being a nation before me forever. This is what is at stake.

[Jay]

Well, there’s the Bible answer there.

[Leopold]

This is what is at stake and that’s why, first of all, as somebody who knows what the Bible said, I’m not even worried about this war with Gaza, because Israel, first of all, military is going to take care of Hamas. And maybe Hezbollah will be next for any other country if they think with their charter, the Hamas people think their article. Seven. It’s gonna come to pass. That’s why I said it’s wishful thinking, because God’s word is at stake into what they’re saying. And in what Jeremiah is saying, the nation of Israel will never cease to exist. Many Christian, like I say, through history, they rejected the Jew. They participate in this. Anti-Semitism. Because they did not understand the scripture and they did not walk. By faith they. Basically, they were looking at the external circumstance. What is happening in the world, the Jew being expelled send all over the world only few Jew being left in Israel, they say. Ohh, that’s it. Now let’s figure out what happened. God has replaced the Jew. What did we see in the 20th century? We are witness of that. Of what God said in his words. Over thousands of years before, and that’s what is at stake. So the nation of Israel is not gonna disappear no matter what, even if all the nations comes around Russia. And next time, if we can talk about this Ezekiel war that people are talking about, I would say by the way, some people are claiming.

[Jay]

It’s true, yeah.

[Leopold]

We are either close to this Ezekiel war, but I don’t believe we are and one simple reason for me because in the Ezekiel War of physical 38 and 39. You have identified some enemies of Israel. Russia is 1 coming from the north. OK, again, Mago, you have Iran coming from the east and we see that today. Can you imagine? Ezekiel wrote it 2500 years ago. And we can see Iran trying to get a nuclear bomb trying.

[MCG]

Right.

[Leopold]

To decimate Islam and all the Jew.

Oh yes.

[Jay]

Yes. And in addition to that, recently I don’t know if it’s conclusive evidence, but they believe that the attack that took place on October was funded in large part by Iran as well. So there’s that element there as well.

[Leopold]

That’s right. Yes, exactly. Absolutely yes. Hamas is being funded by both Iran and Qatar. Qatar is supporting them and like I was saying, the leaders of Hamas, they don’t live in Gaza Strip. They live in Qatar, in Turkey, in those seven star hotel and make taking advantage of poor Palestinians who are supporting them but not knowing. What their purpose is? Is to basically just enrich themselves and live a lavish lifestyle and don’t care about their own people and claiming to be speaking in the name of Allah. But we know the fact so I don’t believe it’s the Ezekiel worldwide because even though you have all these nation line up and Turkey is one of them also. And by the way there will be Sudan, Libya. First of all, when I look at just Libya, you see what is happening in Libya. It’s a completely destroyed country right now. But in the end time, Libya is gonna be one of those power or countries, they’re gonna line up with Russia, Iran, Turkey. Key we see Turkey being developing itself militarily and economically. Russia we know already. Iran. We see what they’re doing and it’s lining up with what the Bible said. And in that war, Israel is the Lord. Today we see there is support from. The United States and some European countries, they’re behind Israel, even though you know, with politics, they may not have received the full support that they need. But in any way they have this dual language supporting Israel, but then talk about Palestinian not putting it in the right historical. But that’s, I would say to me, those are two reasons. When you look at Libya, it’s a complete chaos right now as a nation divided with two government and Israel being by itself, not being supported by any nation, and they will all convert to what Israel, I don’t know for whatever reason. They will converge all, including China, by the way, because there will be an army of 200 million people coming from either China or India converging toward Israel for the final battle. But God said in his word, obviously Jerusalem will be a cup of trembling for all the people around. But I will destroy them. They will be at a point where they’re gonna run to God because they have no other solution, and that’s when Jesus Christ is gonna come in to rescue them. And the Bible said it exactly the way it is going to happen. That’s why when I look at this war, I put it in that biblical lens to say that, you know what? I’m not worried they can kill. Maybe 1400? Too, they cannot wipe out the nation of Israel because God’s word is at stake into what is happening right now.

[MCG]

So let me ask you Leopold, you talk a lot. How does Israel fit in all of this and how Palestine and guys that fit into the Quran and the things that they’re doing based upon their scripture, quote UN quote. Where does Palestine and Gaza fit in the Bible? Does the Bible talk about Palestine and God?

[Leopold]

Yes, absolutely. So I was telling you earlier, the Hatch enemies of the Jew during the time of Samuel Saul. David was the Philistine. Right. And the Philistine were occupying that Gaza Strip that we’re talking about, and the same name Gaza. You go back to the Bible. You read those passages. It’s explicitly talking about Gaza. So and even the town, when you listen to the news, you hear, for instance, this town in the north of Gaza called is it. Escalon in the scripture, by the way, Samson. Samson, when he was fighting during his time, this was the time of the judges. OK, he was in that area. That was even before David and all the others came about. So. And as I said, Palestine. Term came after the 2nd century after the 2nd century and because of the Philistine who were the enemy of the Jew.

[MCG]

Yeah. Are you referring to Zephaniah? Chapter 2? Verse three says seeking the Lord all he meek of the earth which have brought his judgment seek righteousness, seek meekness, and maybe he shall be hid in the day of the law’s anger for God there shall be forsaken, and as shall learn a desolation, and they shall drive.

[Leopold]

Stephen I exactly.

[MCG]

Ashdod at the Noon Day, an Akron shall be rooted up and all these are in Gaza. Yeah, and if it warranted inhabitants.

[Leopold]

Exactly, yeah.

[MCG]

Of the sea cold. Which is, we know, Gaza is along. The seacoast, yeah. The nation of their I’m going to butcher this name. Sherrod. It’s the word of the Lord is against you.

[Leopold]

Yeah, absolutely.

[MCG]

Oh, Canaan, the land of the philistines. You mentioned that I will even destroy thee, that there shall be no inhabitant. And as Stefania, 2325 left off. But there’s more.

[Leopold]

Exactly so sighted holders, we have the same name to this day.

[Jay]

Yes, I’m looking right here on Wikipedia. I’m just pulling it up as you’re talking, Ashkelon is a city. Yeah, in Gaza. Right now. Wow.

[Leopold]

In Gaza, absolutely yes. And you cannot find one reference in the Quran. One which came 600 years afterwards, not even a reference to Palestine or Gaza, but yet in the Bible. And we know at that time the Jew were there fighting the Philistines. Everybody knows about the famous battle between Goliath and David, and that the town of God where he was from. It’s in that same Gaza Strip, same guy. Industry. So you need to go back to the Bible if you want to understand the time we’re living in, especially around the nation of Israel, because the Bible, 90% or more, talk about Israel, it’s about Israel, the Bible, we never should lose sight of that.

[MCG]

Yeah, alright. Well lipo. I’m just going to let you wrap it up, tighten up both for us. You know, you I think you have mentioned some of this before. How should Christian evaluate this in light of scripture? We have talked about that, you know, you talk about whether this has to do anything. And with the end time just kind of put a bow on it because we know the most important thing for us today is not so much the end times and all that stuff. And a lot of times Christians get caught up in the end times about Jesus second coming while there’s so much people there who have never heard of his first coming. So just kind of put it in a bowl for us and bring it home.

[Leopold]

Absolutely. Thank you. Let me say first again to remind those who are listening to you guys, the God of Israel love. The muscle. The God of Israel love the terrorist despite the atrocity that they have committed, which obviously every reasonable human being should condemn. I here in the United States, some university even are siding with what Hamas did, any reasonable human being. Should recognize and acknowledge this is unacceptable because the level of atrocity they have shown. Is beyond measure and instead of attacking the Israeli army, the attacking poor, innocent and some of these poor innocent because they were so naive to believe that these Muslims can be friend with them when yet their own scripture. Are condemning the J. Those and the Christians. So this is a wake up call for many Jews in Israel. Now I’m glad that through this tragedy, which is unfortunate because I really feel for those families who lost loved ones who have, you know, hostage. I pray that God will bring those back home. And that they will turn to the one and only through God through this process, because God used this event to draw some to him. And my prayer is not only he’s gonna draw those Jew who are today morning their loved ones but these Muslims who are either. Terrorists who are supporting the terrorist organization that God will convict them, but because we need to remember also even in Palestine, you have some Christian who are being persecuted by these hammers because they cannot admit anybody who’s not Muslim, even their own Muslim. If they convert to Christianity, that’s the end of them. They’re going to be killed. So we are praying that God will open doors and give us opportunity that we can share the truth to the world, to know that there is a living God. And he say in his word over thousands years before. Or what is going to happen to the Jew? This anti-Semitism we see across the world, not just in America. I was hearing a couple of days ago in Leon, a Jewish woman, a neighbor who is a Muslim, came to knock at her door and stabbed her with several strike of knife. And she was taken to hospital. I don’t know if she’s still alive or something and we see incident after incident and it’s not gonna end. Why? Because there is a spiritual dimension. With where Satan, who is trying to oppose God’s plan, and God is using the nation of Israel, he’s using the Jew not only to bring the gospel to us, but also to bring his all his word to the whole world so they can turn to Christ, who is the only way, the truth. And the life, because no one can come to God, to the God of Israel without going through Jesus Christ. And we are appealing to the Jew if there are any Jew list. Meaning that God is calling them to turn to him if they don’t know him. Let it be an opportunity for them to know him before it’s too late, because they’re gonna come a time when these Jews are gonna even suffer more than what they have experienced in October 7. In the end time, because the Bible say in the book of Zacharias 2/3 of the Jew will be exterminated in that last battle.

[MCG]

Oh wow.

[Leopold]

So that’s tragic and we want many of them to come to Christ before you let many Muslims who are believing in the lie that Islam is perpetrating around the world to turn to the truth, to turn to the light. And to stop hating those Jews because God is calling us to love every single one, including our enemy. And that’s where I would like to part in. Yeah. So thank you for this opportunity.

[MCG]

Yeah, man. Yeah, definitely. Leopold, as usual, is a pleasure. We learned a lot, and we will have you anytime. Thank you for joining us. And the removing Barris podcast.

[Leopold]

Thank you. Thank you for inviting me.

[Jay]

Thank you so much for listening to the Removing Barriers podcast. Make sure to rate US everywhere you listen to podcasts, including Spotify, Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, or Stitcher, Removing Barriers, a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

Thank you for listening. To get ahold of us to support this podcast or to learn more about removing barriers. Go to: removingbarriers.net. This has been the removing Barriers podcast we attempted to remove barriers so that we all can have a clear view of the cross.