Episode 130

In early May of 2023, a homeless, mentally ill man with a tragic and violent past was killed via chokehold on a New York subway after his menacing behavior on the subway prompted bystanders to restrain him. Daniel Penny, the former Marine who restrained Neely via chokehold, provided lifesaving measures after he lost consciousness and was only arrested after Neely’s death ignited race-related protests in the city (Penny is white and Neely was black). Was this a race-related confrontation as many purport it to be, or is there more to the story? Does Neely’s death highlight the untenable conditions in New York City and represents all our failures as a society? Join us on this episode of the Removing Barriers podcast as we discuss this topic in more detail.

[Jay]

Thank you for tuning in to the Removing Barriers podcast. I’m Jay and I’m MCG, and we’re attempting to remove barriers so we can all have a clear view. Of the cross.

[MCG]

This is episode 130 of the Removing Barriers Podcast, and in this episode we will be looking at the incident surrounding the death of Jordan Neely by the hands of a former marine by the name of Daniel Penny.

[Jay]

Hi, this is Jay MC G and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to removingbarriers.net and subscribing to receive all things removing barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at removing barriers.net/donate removing barriers. A clear view of the.

[MCG]

Alright, Jay, let’s start by discussing who was Jordan Neely.

[Jay]

Jordan Neely was a 30 year old man in New York who was put in a chokehold after menacing behavior on the New York subway. Although that behavior has been disputed, he was known as a Michael Jackson. Impersonator on the streets of New York. He also had a long history of mental illness and run INS with the. And on May 1st, 2023, he was killed when a Marine veteran riding the same subway car that he was writing subdued him via chokehold. Now, according to witnesses that recorded the confrontation, said that he was in the chokehold for 15 minutes. After which the man that put him in the chokehold, Daniel Penny. Released him provided life saving measures such as CPR, but ultimately Jordan Neely was pronounced dead at the hospital. His death was and is. A source of contention and pushback from the community because the marine was the former marine was not initially charged or arrested, and of course, protests were beginning to take shape. And because Neely was a black man. The veteran that put him in the chokehold was a white man, so all of the racial undertones that we’ve addressed multiple times here at their Moving Bears podcast came to a head. And here we are talking about the situation.

[MCG]

Yeah, when I did some research I found out that Jordan Neely, actually. Sat having mental issues after his mother was murdered at the age of 14, so he obviously was a troubled young man, went through some trauma in his life. He had some 42 or 43 different arrests or arrest records, the latest of which being that. He pushed a lady against the chain. This was a stationary train, but he violently pushed her against the train, and he also cracked the skull of. A 60 plus year old woman. For some reason, I don’t think they knew each other, but he had a long rap sheet, so to speak. As he said, he was known as the Michael Jackson impersonator, at least in his local area.

[Jay]

According to Fox News, and People can feel how they want about Fox News, but the litany of charges that were filed against him as a result of his. Behavior in New York is fairly extensive. It’s from randomly attacking people to even cases of public lewdness. By exposing himself to other people and all that manner of thing. And so from what I understand and from what I have read, the people that knew him in the immediate area remember him early on in the late 20. Maybe twenty 10s in that particular time. Not long after his mother died as being a very vibrant Michael Jackson impersonator, they would describe him as happy bringing joy to other people. But they also noticed that as the years went. Gone. He became a lot more violent, a lot more despondent, a lot more worn down. Tired. Not the same Jordan Neely that they remembered in the early 20 tens maybe late 2000s. And so they feel like the circumstances stemming from his mother’s murder. But also as a result of being homeless and of. The mental illness that he was struggling with, it wore him down in the last few years of his life to where he would accumulate so many charges and run INS with the law, and so they feel like perhaps this was an instance of someone who has gone decades without the help that they really need. And it ended in a very unfortunate and sad event.

[MCG]

Yeah, the charges. Against them seems to be indicative of someone who is exhibiting mental issues. When you get arrested for public nudity, most of the time there’s something not right mentally. With it safely and nightly, you know most sane people, or even most criminals, don’t necessarily go there nude, you know. But I think sometimes when you’re young because he was 14, when his mother was murdered, that we don’t realize how. A youth will actually process that, especially if they don’t get the help that they need to have a aunt. Her mother died when she was pretty young as well, and she said, and I’ve heard it said number of times that when your mother died, when you’re young, that even a dog, it’s better than you so. Of course I’ve not experienced that. I don’t know what that is like, but it seems to from what I’ve read that his mental issues started. Once his mother was brutally murdered. So whatever the case may be.

[Jay]

And murdered by her boyfriend, who kept him from seeing her before he went off to school. He went off to school thinking that his mother was alive, but in fact she had been murdered. The night before. And while he was at school, the boyfriend disposed of the body stuff the body in a suitcase and left her body on the side of the highway. He found out later and at the trial four years later. When the suspect was caught and brought to trial, he had to testify. So that was in 2011 ISH 2012. Somewhere in that time. And he was known as Michael Jackson impersonator. Even during that time in the 20/12/20 elevens. So he’s been on the street for a very long time. I don’t think the situation with processing his mother’s murder was ever properly dealt with, and so he had to figure out a way to do it. Unfortunately, it presents itself in rage, mental illness, drug abuse, and obviously all the run INS with law enforcement.

[MCG]

So what are some of their circumstances that surrounded his death?

[Jay]

There’s apparently a 15 minute video of his last few moments of life from the time that he got onto the subway, he started behaving in a menacing manner to the chokehold and then ultimately to where the first responders were coming to take him to the hospital. There’s a 15 minute video that I’ve not been able to find every video that I found. Is the short little 3 minute video maybe a 23 second video? Of him pacing around and seeing some menacing and threatening things, and then the three minute 40 something second video that’s floating around online of the last few moments of the chokehold. But the full 15 minute video I’ve not been able to find, but the one who says that the chokehold was in place for 15 minutes was a freelance journalist. Juan Alberto Vasquez. I believe his name? Juan Alberto Vasquez. He is the one who said that the chokehold was in place for 15 minutes so apparent. Jordan Neely steps onto the subway car and begins yelling and pacing and throwing things. Including his jacket violently on the ground, talking about how he’s hungry and he’s thirsty and he’s ready to die. He’s ready to go to jail, I would imagine because he’s so hungry and thirsty, he’s ready to die. To go to. Jail, almost like a give me help right now. Or give me food or water. Right now, I don’t care. I’m ready to go to jail. Type of of confrontation there. And people on the subway either ignore him or. They move away. Or they, you know, they make it very clear that they don’t want to be. Around him, Daniel Neely approached him from behind, put him into the chokehold, subdued him and held the chokehold for a certain amount of time. I say a certain amount of time because they say 15 minutes, but I haven’t seen any video. Of course I wasn’t there, so I don’t know, but that’s what the. Freelance journalist said it was 15 minutes after which he released him and provided CPR. Are while the medical personnel arrived and unfortunately it wasn’t enough to save his life, Jordan Neely was declared dead at the hospital. Although many people believe that he died right there in the subway car after that, Daniel Penny spoke to authorities, but he was released. There was no arrest immediately. The arrest came after the uproar. From the community when they heard that this took place and that the so-called perpetrator, the one that put him in the chokehold, was released.

[MCG]

Well, I think their risk came after the autopsy said that the cause of death was homicide. That’s when the District Attorney decided that he’s going to file charges of. I think it’s involuntary manslaughter.

[Jay]

He’s been charged with second degree manslaughter.

[MCG]

Second degree manslaughter, but I’ll just say this. I’m no lawyer, but a lot of folks are taking their autopsy report as saying, see, he was murdered. Murder and homicide have two different legal meaning. That simply means that the person died because of the actions of someone else. That’s all it is. It doesn’t necessarily have a legal weight. It does mean that the cause of death was because someone else acted in a certain way and the person die, right. Murder has to be determined in the courts.

[Jay]

Murder involves intent. It involves opportunity. All of those sort of things that come together to describe.

[MCG]

That’s true, but he has to be determined in the courts that will come down to. So the medical examiner cannot say that Jordan Neely was murdered. But he can say he died by homicide. Meaning he died by the hands of someone else. That could be legal or illegal. You know, if in self-defense you kill somebody and it’s clear self-defense. The person died by homicide, but legally it’s not murder, so a lot of people getting approval because the medical exam said that, hey, it was homicide, you know, that doesn’t necessarily have an illegal. But anyway, Alvin Bragg decided to charge him after the medical examiner declared that it was homicide.

[Jay]

Alvin Bragg, by the way, is the Manhattan. DA’s right.

[MCG]

And I think one thing that you left out, you said that he was some say he was 50 minutes. I’m seeing different time. It was between 6 and 15 minutes. The way I understand it that the entire situation may have lasted 15 minutes, but he was in a chokehold for 15 minutes.

[Jay]

Right.

[MCG]

Also, there were two other persons helping. I think someone was holding down his feet and someone else was holding his hand. So yeah, Daniel Penny, as you mentioned, of course you were 24 year old, former Marine.

[Jay]

Who lives in Long Island and spent four years in the corps, got up to the rank of Sergeant, got out and was intending, I guess he went to college for a little bit. But then stopped in order to go, you know, backpacking through some South American country somewhere. But he was the one that was on the train and applied the show, called it to Jordan Neely.

[MCG]

Right along with the help of some other folks.

[Jay]

My standards, who which three people felt the need to subdue this one person? That would tell me that this person was behaving in such a fashion that enough people felt threatened enough people felt it was necessary to restrain him. I don’t think that.

[MCG]

Or you can say that they were emboldened because one decided they go do do something that others decide they go.

[Jay]

To help, it could be that as well. I don’t think that anyone thought perhaps he was going. To die because I do remember in one of. The videos, some of them verbalizing that in fact one of the people verbalizing to Daniel, Penny, that he ought to let go of the chokehold so that he doesn’t catch a murder charge. He was the same one that said OK. No, no, he’s alright. He’s not going to die. I don’t think anyone believes that Jordan Neely was going to die. But in reality, of course he did.

[MCG]

And I think that same guy told him to let him go so he doesn’t kill him.

[Jay]

Right.

[MCG]

And then whatever happened. But again, I’m not quite sure how long he was in the short hold. It was reported again as he said that once Daniel Penny let him go, he cannot put him in a recovery position to help him recover. But he seemed like he held him there until at least authorities came and tried to administer CPR and other stuff.

[Jay]

Now as a result of this death, there have been protests. Of course, the lawyers. Or Jordan Neely or defending Jordan Neely and his family that brought the lawsuit. And all of that. They, of course, are bringing the issue of race into it simply because Jordan Neely was black. Daniel Penny was white. Do you think that the circumstances of his death were racially motivated? Why do you say that?

[MCG]

Because I hate the default conf. Region every time there’s an incident where the victim is black, quote UN quote. If you want to describe John Neely as the victim and in many respects he can say he is and the assailant is white. If you want to describe Daniel Penny as the sealant in many ways you can say he is. Some folks see. Lonely as a criminal and Daniel Penny as a hero, but any which way you want to look at it, the default position always is that if the black person involves and a white person involved and the white person apparently did wrong to the black person. It must be race or racism or whatever the case may be at this point, I don’t see the default position. Show me the evidence that Daniel Penny is racist. Are you saying to me that if Jordan Neely was white, Daniel Penny would not have subdued him? There’s no evidence for me to to say that I think there are many things that could have. The motivating factor here does not race. I think that being stuck in. A metal tube. With a mentally unstable person can be unnerving, so that could be a motivating factor.

[Jay]

That might have something to do with it.

[MCG]

It could also be youth and arrogance, or maybe ignorant. He was 24 young and fit, and figure hey, I can take on this scrawny black guy that walking around menacing and disrupting the peace of everyone else. You know, if Jordan Neely was six, six, 200 and. 30 pounds wood Daniel Penny had taken him on. And also he realized, hey, I’m a small dude. He’s a small dude. I think I can take him on, bring this mess stone in. You could be that he could be that he have the training. Being a former Marine, he know how to subject people and whatever, and he figured I was trained to protect and serve, and I’m gonna protect and serve. You know, it could be male ego, it could be. Vigilantism, it could be.

[Jay]

A lot of people are accusing him and not just of vigilantism, but specifically white vigilanteism. They’re very, very keen to insert the race thing into this.

[MCG]

Yeah, it could be, you know, he wanted to defend people and himself, AKA self-defense. He could be so many other things before we come to race. I just not accept it, you know. It was Booker T Washington who said this. There’s another class of colored people who make a business of keeping the trouble. Rules their wrongs and their hardships of the Niger race before the public, having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the circled habit of advertising their wrongs, partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays some of these people do not want the *****. To lose his grievances because they do not want to lose their jobs again, I’ve said it number time in different podcasts, different episodes. But when I see the likes of Al Sharpton, Benjamin Crump, Jesse Jackson all come out of whatever. Coop, they were hiding in because we only hear of these guys when something like this happened and they also come to the forefront and they’re all over the news and they’ve been interviewed. I I mostly mainly dismiss them because, as I said before, I don’t see race when I see these guys. I see race baiting and I think Booker T Washington is correct here. They don’t want to lose their job, so they keep the grievances of the black community before eyes.

[Jay]

And that’s unfortunate, because when there is a legitimate grievance to be addressed, no one will have the default position of taking it. Mostly because everyone’s so accustomed to having the race card thrown out there to having everything be about race that we can’t even have an honest discussion about what really happened here. A very hungry, very thirsty and dishevelled and just generally worn down by life. Mentally ill man. Was on the subway behaving in a menacing and threatening. Center people felt the need. They felt threatened enough to where they felt like they needed to subdue him. This is all happening in a city that has been run amok, is run amok with crime, the police and the DA, and all of these people that are supposed to uphold law and order. Have turned to punishing the population. The people for crimes in the sense that they’re not allowed to defend them. Perpetrators are caught and released and crime is rampant in the city and so people are on edge. People really don’t feel secure in their own city in the transit that they’re forced to take because driving in New York is pretty much impossible. And so when you have a situation. Like that, where so many factors converge to squeeze the people and have them feel a lot less secure than they should feel in their own turf or on their. Things are going to happen. The question here when you have people talking about this particular situation, it’s almost tribal and response. You have those that are particularly progressive that say that Jordan Neely is a St. and this shouldn’t have happened to him. And then on the other side, you have the tribe that says, hey, Daniel, Penny. Had the right to defend himself and everyone else on that train. And if you think anywhere in the middle, if there’s any nuance, if there’s any critical evaluation of the situation. You’re not in our camp and you obviously must be shunned or you must be a racist or you must be a communist. It’s always one or the other, very black and white type of thinking without much nuance. Now a fair question would be, was there a better way to subdue Jordan Neely without having to use something like a chokehold? When I saw the. Video that looks like a rear naked choke and once you have a rear naked choke sunk in, it’s pretty much impossible to get out of. You’d either have to stab the person that’s choking you, or if you have a lighter, you could burn them or something because there’s no incentive for the person to let go of your neck and there’s no way for you to get out of there quickly before you lose consciousness. And of course, with a blood choke like that, you would lose consciousness fairly quickly. In his case, it ended up being fatal, but could Daniel Penney or anyone who decided to subdue Jordan nearly? Could they have done so without a choke?

[MCG]

Well, as they say, hindsight is 2020, so you know who am I to judge, you know, I guess if Daniel Penny was better training, maybe jujitsu, he could have done better, I guess.

[Jay]

I would challenge people who think that there’s a better way. OK, so here’s the problem, right? You have someone who is. Agitated, who’s obviously not thinking clearly either because of mental illness or he’s perhaps could be on drugs. Because I remember seeing a video of before the attack where he’s standing there and he’s jittery. He’s bouncing from side to side. Obviously there’s something going on. You don’t know if the person is on some. You don’t know if he’s on an upper or a downer. You don’t know what he’s on. #1 #2. You don’t know what he has on him. If you’re deciding that you’re going to defend yourself or defend people on that train, you have to not only be able to subdue him, but you also have to keep him subdued. Because if he breaks free from you now, you’ve escalated the situation and he’s going to come at you with whatever he’s got. Because now he’s threatened and he’s going to come at you. So you have to be able to initiate and. Stop, initiate and stop the situation. You can’t just, you know, push the person and expect them to be like ohh, OK, I guess I’m acting weird. I guess I’ll stop. If you try to subdue them, that is an escalation. You have to be able to both escalate and stop it immediately. And I’m having a hard time imagining what other way someone like that. And be subdued. You can argue whether or not he should have held the chokehold for as long as he did. That’s a fair. But I challenge anyone to tell me how else are you going to subdue someone that’s threatening other people on the subway in such a fashion that neutralizes the threat and that keeps the threat from reemerging?

[MCG]

This is what goes through my mind because I’m not sure I like to think I can defend myself, but I’m not sure. I personally can think of a way to subdue him without choking him or whatever the case may be. I think the fact that there were three of them, maybe an argument, can be made that they could have subbed to him without having to. To choking or choking for as long as he did because it wasn’t like he was by himself. He was getting help, at least by two other person, someone holding his feet, someone holding his hand.

[Jay]

Well, this is after the fact. Like you said, these were probably two people that decided to help. I don’t think these were three people that agreed to bum rush the guy. I think one person took initiative. I think Penny took initiative and then two other people stepped in to help. I don’t think this was like a coordinated effort.

[MCG]

Right. But what I’m saying is, even after he decide, OK, I’m getting help. Maybe I can let go of his neck and maybe just kind of control his head or whatever the case may be.

[Jay]

Right.

[MCG]

So the fact that he was eventually was outnumbered could speak to the fact that they could have done something. Currently. Mm-hmm. The fact that Jordan Neely, I didn’t look up how tall or how heavy he was, but based upon the pictures and the videos I’ve seen, he looked like he’s a very small guy and also a very light guy. So I will pick him maybe 140. Something maybe 5-9, maybe somewhere around there, but he’s pretty short. At least look pretty short to me, and he looked pretty slim again. Think Michael Jackson impersonator. He has the slim, slender body like Michael Jackson, if you please. So we’re not dealing with a six, six guy who is muscular. In 230 pounds, where you have the same man, I don’t think I can take this dude by myself again. Daniel. Penny as well looked to be very, very small dude. Well, of course they can’t judge people’s height on camera, but he looked to be an average height dude and he very slender as well. So let’s say they’re evenly match and then they have two other persons helping. I think you probably could. Maybe shorten their amount of chokehold you have on him? Sure. But again, hindsight is 2020, and who am I to judge? I can’t get into all the intricate details of what he should and should not do there, but just looking at some stuff I will say. Yeah, maybe there were other options, and I’m sure these are going to come out in court. You know, why did holding so long and stuff like that? But at the same time. Time another thing that could have been done, which no one did. At least it doesn’t seem like anyone did. You want to tell me? No one on. The train had a bottle of juice or water and a sandwich that they could give this kid. Well, he’s a man 30 year old man, but no one on the train. Could have said. Hey, Sir, I realize you saying you’re hungry. You’re thirsty. You’re fed up with life. You don’t care if you die or go to jail or go to prison for the rest of your life. Can ioffer you a bit of Gatorade and a sandwich? I can’t imagine that there were no one on that car that didn’t have something on them that they could have just given to this guy. Again, they’re not obligated to. They didn’t have to, but I wonder what would the response has been if someone has just offered him some water, I’ll just offer him something to drink because at the end of the day. The reason why he was acting the way he was acting, at least According to him, is because he was hungry. He was thirsty. Of course, we can argue. Maybe it was because of his mental illness, and it may be triggered at that point, but at least he was saying he was hungry. He was thirsty and I’ve not seen any evidence of anyone who offer him or tried to offer him anything based on what he was asking for, so maybe Daniel Penny didn’t have a choice. About to put the new charcoal to subdue him. But before he got to that point, could someone have just say, hey, Sir, here’s some water? I don’t know, but. Yeah, it speaks to. Our community and people of today, because to be honest, I did test public transportation and when I go on public transportation, I don’t necessarily. Look to talk to people or be interactive. Unless someone is sharing the seat with me or something, I might try to talk to them or try to witness to them. Or try to give them a track, but for most part I don’t necessarily interact with folks on public transportation, but at the same time, I haven’t taken public transportation in years.

[Jay]

From what I understand, New York public transportation is a different beast. You get on there, you keep your head down, you don’t look. At anybody, you just. There get to your station and get. That’s what it seems like it is. Apparently this type of thing is very common on the subway, where you have people with mental illness or violent people in general, on the subway harassing, threatening people. And most people get on the subway, keep their head down, keep their eyes glued to their phone, mind their own business, stay in their lane, get off. I don’t think there’s much interaction between people. On the subway altogether, particularly in a very congested metropolitan place like New York, it was only, you know, last year, I think it was. Where a man sexually assaulted a woman on a train in Philadelphia and no one stepped in to help, no one made a move to help. So the fact that people might have either, you know, put their head down, ignored or just kept to themselves during an incident like this is not outside of the norm. I’m not saying it’s a good thing. I’m not saying it’s right. I’m just saying that’s normal behavior. From what I understand on the subway, particularly in New York.

[MCG]

Yeah, that’s true. I wouldn’t doubt that one bit. I’ve never been on the subway in New York. I think when we were a deer in 2014, we did took a train, but it wasn’t there. New York metro subway. Was another, more expensive train, I think it.

[Jay]

Was and if he was behaving in a threatening manner, who’s going to stick their neck out and say, oh, hey, I’ve got some water. I’ve got a sandwich. Here you go. Most people are going to get away from him and just kind of stay in their lane and keep their head down as much as possible until their particular station or stop comes.

[MCG]

Well, you see, I don’t know how fast or how much time between stations the stops are in New York. I imagine it’s probably a minute.

[Jay]

Yeah, probably a minute or two.

[MCG]

Problem minute between each stop.

[Jay]

Not even 2 minutes, yeah.

[MCG]

So I imagine that. At some point you probably could change cars and go into another one, but that’s probably easier said than done, because if it’s rush hour. To get out of one and go to another, you might end up on not getting all not have a seat. But yeah, the thing that is on my mind though, who do you think is to be blamed more for his death? Penny or the city of New York, or some other entity?

[Jay]

Ohh my word, I think there’s enough blame to go around. You could blame Jordan nearly for his own death. You could blame Daniel Penney. You could blame the city of New York. There is plenty of blame to go around for the death of Jordan Neely.

[MCG]

I guess the question is who failed them then? Maybe that’s the same question, but.

[Jay]

I think we all did. I think we all did. We could say the city of New York failed him. If you’re in and out of jail or in and out of runs with the law and and out of mental institutions in and out of hospitals. The system failed him. We can say that the system failed him with his mother being in an abusive sort of situation with her boyfriend. And it ultimately ended in murder. That’s a story. That repeats itself many times throughout all 50 states of the state, failing in that particular way. Afterward, his own family failed him in the sense that, and I don’t want to sound like I’m blaming anyone, but I’m just saying in terms of who failed him, his own family failed him in not being able to get him help. I’m not saying that they didn’t try, but he clearly didn’t get the help that he needed. His family could be blamed. We could be blamed the church for not being in a position or having the eyes to see people that are in need to that degree and make. Making efforts to reach out and to be a blessing and to help in that particular way, Diana Penny, of course, who applied the chokehold. Or clearly there’s some blame there. And if it’s the case that all he wanted was his sandwich and some water, well, the ones that were on the subway car that ignored him and didn’t attempt to reach out and help him, if that’s all he wanted. All of us are to blame for Jordan Neeley’s death. The problem is that we’ve become. So we become so tribal that in our response to it, we’re quick to say it’s those guys. It’s those guys in fact, in preparation for this particular podcast, I watched a video from a gentleman from the National Review who pointed his finger squarely at progressives and said progressives, I don’t want to hear you talk about how you care about Jordan Neely y’all didn’t care anything about him. All the way up until his death, when the New York City system failed him, and when this failed him. That failed him. He just went through the litany of failures through which Jordan nearly fell through the cracks. And I thought, well, yeah, you got a point. But if that’s the case, then there’s blame for all of us. There’s enough there for us to take heed in terms of how we interact with the souls that are around us. Is it best for us to be living in a metropolitan area where twenty of us are screwed into a can and all of our freedoms are stripped from us and just being able to walk down the street without being harassed or? Being surrounded by the stench and the all of the oppressive things that New York is known for. Are we really caring for one another when we allow that type of thing to persist? Are we caring for one another? If we are Christians and we see someone having a mental crisis of some sort and we’re not reaching out to help, are we loving one another as a scripture calls us to do when we’re not stepping in to the situation that the state feels like they have to step in to, and they obviously can’t do a good job. Of it, are we really caring for it? All of us have enough blame to go around. All of us can take a little piece of the blame pie, as it were. When it comes to who’s responsible for the. Death of Jordan Neely.

[MCG]

Yeah, I fully agree if I. Should you know, list the blame who to be blame or. To most failing, I will definitely miss everyone that you have just listed. I think ultimately the court is going to decide if Daniel Penny is to be blamed, but I can’t imagine that they will find 12 reasonable people that will convict Daniel Penny.

[Jay]

In New York.

[MCG]

Yes, even in New York, I can’t imagine that they will find 12 people that will convict him. I could be wrong.

[Jay]

You are quite the optimist.

[MCG]

He could be convicted after all. Derek Chauvin was. Even though I think Devon Shovin should not have been convicted for different reasons, not necessarily because whether or not he had his neck and.

[Jay]

His knee on George Floyd’s neck? Yeah.

[MCG]

His needs as George Floyd net, but I can’t imagine that they will find 12 reasonable people in a Fairchild to convict Daniel Penny, but he will definitely lose the civil child. They’re going to sue his family going to sue.

[Jay]

They’re already suing him? Yeah.

[MCG]

And they go. Win because it’s no longer, you know, it’s a preponderance of evidence. So they would have to be like 51% sure that because of your action, he died is not guilty or innocent at this point. So they definitely gonna win the civil case. That’s a given. I think his lawyers probably should just out of the two million whatever money he has raised for his defense. Kind of charge to circle it for $1,000,000 or something and kind of get it behind of them because they gonna lose that one.

[Jay]

Right.

[MCG]

The City of New York, the government of. New York, definitely. Absolutely. You know, the mere fact that Jordan Neely was on New York’s top 50 list? Of most at risk homeless persons.

[Jay]

Really, I didn’t know that.

[MCG]

Tell you that. The city failed him.

[Jay]

Sure, big time.

[MCG]

Because if he was on that list, why help him? You know, New York City at this point is helping thousands, thousands of illegal migrants. And you want to tell me you couldn’t help Jordan Neely? They couldn’t help the American citizen Jordan Neely. But you can give. Illegal immigrants, free hotel, free healthcare and all these other things. You know, I’m an immigrant myself, so I’m not telling people not to come to the country, but at the same time, if you can support people that are not your own, why couldn’t you support Jordan nearly? You know, why can’t we support our veterans? And the homeless Americans that are on the street.

[Jay]

Because that would be bigoted, of course. And one of the things I failed to say is that Jordan Neely, I know this is going to sound like victim blaming, but this. Is the truth. Jordan Neely bears some responsibility for his death as well. Threaten people in an enclosed metal tube and not expect people to react in kind. I think there is a terrible trend in this country and I might be 50 years behind in saying this. This is terrible trend of not holding mentally ill people responsible for their actions. That I think needs to go away. There are circumstances. I’m not saying that there are extenuating circumstances that contribute to their violent behavior or whatever we may want to say in that particular front, but if we are a country that believes in individual responsibility, doing the best that we can, each one doing what they can. Then some blame does belong. To in this case, the victim as well. I’m not saying that he deserved to die. I’m not saying that he should have saw that coming. I’m not saying anything like that. I’m just saying that if you behave in a certain way, we can’t be surprised if people react to you in a certain way. There seems to be this trend. Where the mentally ill person kills someone or these mentally ill people that shoot up schools or things like that, there seems to be this quick explanation of Oh well, there’s like mental illness there. We have to look into mental illness, mental illness? Yes, mental illness. The fall affected the way our brains work as well, but we bear responsibility for our actions.

[MCG]

Yeah, I think the country for most part do a pretty good job at holding mentally ill people accountable for their actions. Of course, their number of steps they have to go through to make sure they are competent to stand shy on all this stuff. But you can say the justice system failing as well-being arrested over 40 something time and still on the street.

[Jay]

Doesn’t it and sit on the street?

[MCG]

Speak to the justice system as well. I think as you said, this family. Of course, I think there’s some blame to be. Is there and also the church. I would agree that the church piece of blamed as well. So there is a lot of blame to go around. I can’t say I understand mental illness. I’m not the expert in that field. Actually, I’m not the expert in. Any field, but I can’t say I understand mental illness. That’s something I would like to understand a lot better, but I don’t know. As I said before, maybe this thing could have been resolved by someone offering him some.

[Jay]

Water most likely. I think you’re absolutely right about that they call it de escalation. There could have been a deescalation with someone providing. Water or sandwich and that’s not to say that people on the subway like normally carry around water and sandwiches. Most people probably aren’t, but in this case I think I read something somewhere saying that after he was choked out and they put him in the recovery position, someone came and poured water on his forehead. So apparently there was someone on the subway with water and just refused to. Provide it to him, but I mean, could that have been avoided? Could that have been deescalated? Which is why we say that all of us are to blame in this particular thing.

[MCG]

Alright, you’re listening to the removing various podcasts. We’re talking about, Jordan Neely, a soul for which Christ died. We’ll be right back.

[Jay]

Hi, this is Jay MCG and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to removingbarriers.net and subscribing to receive all things removing barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at removing barriers.net/donate removing barriers. A clear view of the cross. This is the removing barriers podcast. If the podcast or the blog were a blessing to you, leave us a rating and a review on your favorite podcast platform. And don’t forget to share the podcast with your friends. Removing barriers, a clear view of the cross. So we’ve talked quite a bit about who’s to blame. We all have our controversial opinions about who should be blamed and was there a better way to subdue Neely without the chokehold? Do you think that Dunga Penny should have gotten himself involved in the first place?

[MCG]

The short answer for me is I don’t know. I can speak for myself and my personal boundaries that I would not get involved in any incident that doesn’t directly involve me or my family. That’s my default position. Of course, there are things that. Could shock the foul. Like a child being assaulted or older person being assaulted that I probably will say hey. You can’t turn your back on this one. You can’t walk away. You can’t just call the police and be a good witness. But other than those situation where something really shocked the soul. I probably would just call the police, keep a good distance and be a good witness. You mentioned the public rape of a lady on the train in Philadelphia. I don’t know if I could have stood around and not intervene in that situation, but for most situations I would say I would not intervene in 3rd party situation. You know, they’re saying, not my circus, not my monkeys. My default position will be that, but I’m glad their people out there that don’t have my default position. Because a lot of people would not get help, you know, so we talked about whether there was a better way to subdue Jordan Neely. I wonder if New York laws wasn’t so strict. In terms of weapons, and I’m gonna say weapons, I don’t necessarily mean guns, even though guns do involve in the New York strict laws. What if someone on this train had pepper spray? Maybe that would have taken this thing out of Jordan Neely as well. If Daniel Penny had some purpose for him to give him a good dose, maybe that would have calmed him down. I don’t know. Maybe he could have gotten involved. The way I personally I like to think things through and when I start thinking things true, I think about getting into third party situation is the question I’m asking myself and this might sound very selfish to admit, but the question I’m asking myself is, is this a person who I want to spend thousands of dollars? On defending myself in court because I. And again, it’s all selfish, but a stranger on the street. I’m going to say, hey, I am willing to lose my house, lose my job, lose my freedom to defend you. I don’t know if that’s in me to do it, and let’s again if it’s something that really shocked us all because look at it, you can see Daniel. The penny could have just ignored the situation and today he would be a free man, not having to go through trial and the public humiliation. Half of the country called him a hero. Half of the country. Call him a murderer. And all the stuff that he’s going through now, all that would have flashed to my mind before I decided to help in a situation like this again, something that shocked the soul. Maybe not, but in a situation like this I will say do I want to risk not see my kids grow up because I want to help someone else? I don’t know is there tough decision to make, especially in a country and in a state they’re going to judge you so harshly just by intervening and doing quote UN quote. What you think the right thing is? I don’t know. But again, as I said, I’m glad everyone doesn’t think like me, but yeah.

[Jay]

Yeah, I can totally understand where you come from. With that position, I know you and I differ. I guess I feel like I would be more likely to intervene in a third party. Situation, but those are questions that perhaps it would behoove all of us to consider. Before we get into that situation. I don’t think Daniel Penny stepped onto that subway car, anticipating that he was going to interact with and experience this particular situation, and perhaps it would be good if beforehand. We decide where. Our boundaries are. Where is that line? Where’s that line that determines when it’s go time or when it’s flea time? When it’s fight or flight, so that when we are actually in that situation, we can perhaps be clear minded and level headed about how we interact. What makes this question a lot more difficult as well is that there are disputes on whether or not Jordan Neely was behaving menacingly. Some people say that he was being loud and obnoxious, but he wasn’t behaving in a threatening manner while others say yes. Indeed, he was being very, very menacing and threatening, and in fact one older lady that got off the subway. She was interviewed, she. Well, I’m glad that young man stepped in and stopped him because I was feeling quite threatened, so it’s hard to say as well because the people who were actually in the subway feel differently about how they perceived Jordan Neeley’s actions. Some felt threatened, some didn’t. And so that’s going to be something to wrestle with as well. Do you have? The right to intervene or should you intervene if you feel threatened? Well, so other people may not feel threatened and part of his defense. Or at least they planned that part of his defense will be that he was not just defending himself, but defending others. Are you defending others who don’t feel threatened? That’s something that we also need to evaluate as well. I personally, I think I would intervene in a third party situation if it’s a situation that’s so morally shocking that not doing anything, I wouldn’t be able to live with myself. I’d like to think that I would step in. Of course, you don’t know what you’re going to do unless you’re in a situation. But I would like to think that I would step in and do something if there is a situation in which I feel threatened or my children feel threatened, someone else perhaps. I would like to think that I would step into a third party situation, but all of those things that you mentioned, MCG are definitely things to think about. Do you want to risk not being around for your children or spending a decade or more in jail? And all of these other things that may actually happen to you as a result of defending yourself? And defending others. Many people think that self-defense or defending others is cut and dry when in court. But I think we saw that was the case with Kyle Rittenhouse going through the system was punishment enough of itself. And that’s something that people ought to think about.

[MCG]

Yeah, from what I’ve heard, man being prosecuted is just one step from being what murdered or whatever the case may be. From what I understand, is not an easy ride, so if I can avoid going to the Criminal Court and the criminal system, I will try to avoid it.

[Jay]

Right.

[MCG]

But at the same time. You know, because even if you win. Do you do? You really win, you know, after you have lost your home again. If you have the money and stuff like that, I guess you don’t have to lose your home, but most certainly you’re gonna lose your job. I don’t think anyone going to keep you employed. Well, unless you. Have a really good employer.

[Jay]

Especially for something as radioactive as something like might have race based.

[MCG]

Right.

[Jay]

Allegations to it.

[MCG]

Well, that’s something else. National as Jordan Neely or Calvin knows or something, that it’s certainly not gonna keep your job if you do get convicted.

[Jay]

Right. Right.

[MCG]

Whether it’s for a few years or less or more, you know you lose those years of life again. You can argue that Daniel Penny is 24. Probably doesn’t have a family, probably is not married. I don’t see any indication of that on the Internet, so he could say that he had a little bit less to lose than for me. You know, I’m married with kids and stuff like that. So look, as I say, I personally you mess with me or my family. I probably would go to jail for that, but for someone else. Again, this sounds selfish, but I have to be honest, I can’t say that I will definitely jump in to defend someone else, to not my family or not my loved ones. Not because I don’t care. Is this because there’s more at stake here than just that? Again, I agree with you. As I said before, if it’s really shocking to the soul, I can’t see that I will turn my back. But a normal fight or something, I’ll probably call the police. And if I have the barricade myself someplace and be a good witness, I’ll do that. But I can’t say I will get involved. I can’t even say that I would have gotten involved in this Jordan Nealy situation. If I put myself in that situation. And Daniel, Penny in the same situation, I can’t even say I would have gotten involved. Then some of it is 2020 being. Seeing what happened after him, some of it is, as he said, some folks said he was just being loud and.

[Jay]

Right.

[MCG]

And I can understand, some people felt fearful because someone is being loud and obnoxious on the train and some people, well, he’s a scrawny to do that. I’m not afraid of him. What can he do to me? You know, I can imagine younger people may not have felt as faithful, but older people folks may have felt a little bit more fearful.

[Jay]

Don’t let them skinny people fool you. It’s the skinny ones that are really.

[MCG]

Well, I don’t know about that, but you know.

[Jay]

What do you think the implications are for the upcoming trial because it’s so polarizing now and race, of course, has complicated and muddied the waters. What do you think the implications are going to be of the?

[MCG]

Yeah, before I get into that, I just want to finish the previous thought by saying this though. Hmm, I think that considering Jordan Neely history, I think we can conclude that the situation was probably a dangerous one. You know, of course I know some people were saying they weren’t faithful or some were saying they’re fearful again. High sign 2020, but considering the fact that he has been arrested 40 something time, he have assaulted a number of people on that train or at the station. We can conclude that probably most likely that this was a dangerous situation. Yeah, but that’s just looking back on it.

[Jay]

Right. That’s was about to say. Yeah, you’re absolutely right. You were right to say that we can conclude that in 2020. I think the people that were there at that time had no idea of all of the different things that he was charged of. And prayerfully, that will come out in the trial, because if someone has that kind of history, you could just randomly punch someone in the face and crack their skull. You obviously are a threat and a menace to society, so if he was in a position where he’s verbalizing that he’s not afraid to die, he’s not afraid to go to jail. If you don’t get me what I need that you know that type of verb is that type of language. It’s not unreasonable to feel threatened and to feel like you need to defend yourself.

[MCG]

Right. But in case of the implication of upcoming child, to be honest, I don’t think there’s any implication at all. I will say absolutely nothing.

[Jay]

It doesn’t have like Kyle Rittenhouse type implications for the rest of society as. A whole in your mind.

[MCG]

But Carwin house didn’t even have that impact, neither. Here’s the thing that we always do, and I think it’s wrong again. I’m no lawyer. I enjoy listening to lawyers. To Ben podcast or whatever case may be, but I’m not a lawyer, but from what I understand, hey, state laws are just that, state laws not even just state laws you’re talking about. Does New York State law you’re talking about New York City laws that that come into play here that doesn’t extend to? Chicago, or to LA or to Miami, FL, or any place like that. It’s New York City state laws that come into play here. So if New York City convict him, what is going to be the consensus? Well, don’t step into third party situation in New York. Don’t put people in chokehold in New York. That’s what you got to come down to. Because I can guarantee you this. If this had happened in Texas, Governor Abbott probably would have been given Daniel Penny a medal in a ceremony the week after. But however, if it had happened in Austin, TX, maybe he’ll still have been charged because since Texas is probably as liberal as New York. So it’s not just the state, but also come down to the particular city and the Park City laws, so. I don’t think there’s any implication to.

[Jay]

Be honest, but as I said, any kind of precedent will it set any kind of precedent because remember, I could be wrong on this and I’m sure my history is not correct on this, but it’s not a stretch to say. That the first lawyer to really weaponize the idea of race in the courtroom was who was that lawyer in the OJ Simpson trial? I forget Johnny Cochrane to successfully weaponize it, and he set a precedent for a playbook, as it were, for other lawyers to use in the courtroom arguments that can be used. There’s a precedent. Set so in this particular situation, do you think that could happen with this guy’s trial because everything is already so polarized? Look at for example Derek Shovin. I don’t think Derek Chauvin would have been able to get a fair trial anywhere in the United States because of how polarizing the issue was. The underlying race issues that were brought in, of course. We discussed that in the podcast. I forget what number it is, but could this be another one of those situations where the President is such that it will affect other legal proceedings in other cities throughout the country?

[MCG]

No, because Chauvin was a police officer, I think. The fact that actually one of the police officers kind of make it a much bigger than it was because it fed the narrative, here we go again. Police brutality well, so.

[Jay]

Well, I mean that the penny is a former marine, they probably lump them all in the same category, white as white and.

[MCG]

I don’t think so. I don’t think they look at Marines that way. Again, no, there’s some people that hate the military, but I don’t think it will look at it that way because you don’t find a lot of even current military folks or former military necessarily getting the same treatment as police. So I wouldn’t put it that way. You talk about whether or not they could use race. There’s so much. That is at play here, because firstly, the OJ Simpson Chow, the lawyer who brought in the race or played the race card, was the defendant. So that’s a little bit different here.

[Jay]

Yeah, that is a. Little different, you’re right.

[MCG]

The prosecutor would have to bring in race and I think that judging from the Armada Berry. Trial and the George Zimmerman child again. This was in Georgia and Florida, so two completely different states, not only two completely different state, you’re talking about two red state complete to New York being a blue state. The dynamics is different there as well, but it’s going to be up to the judge to decide whether or not there’s enough evidence that they can actually bring race. In because judging from the amount of our child. Jesse Jackson and the other folks that wanted to be in the court, I think the judge eventually asked him not to come in. So you know, if they want to give him a fair child, they would probably want to leave. Out, unless they have strong evidence they would have provided strong evidence to show that this were motivated by race and if not, I believe a fair judge will probably Kick It Out. Judging from those two other Childs where it was claimed to be racially motivated. So I don’t think so. Again, I think the only implication this is going to have is people looking at it and saying maybe I’m not going to get involved in 3rd party situation when I’m in New York City.

[Jay]

Right.

[MCG]

I’m not quite sure what this is going to affect Red, Florida or Texas where the self-defense laws might be a little bit stronger again, I’m sure. Well, I don’t even have to guess. Governor De Santis came out and called Daniel Penny a hero, so I don’t even have to guess what the Florida at least. The Governor of Florida. I didn’t see anything by Greg Abbott, the governor of Texas. What I’m simply saying in some other states, they probably shake this man hand and let him go and say, hey, good job. You for taking care of it for us kind of thing again. I’m not saying I agree with it or disagree with it in the sense I’m just saying in terms of implication, no one is going to be surprised per say if you get convicted in New York or in California. But still, I personally would be surprised if they can find 12 people to convict Daniel Penny. Just based on the evidence that I know thus far, because I can’t see that they will convict him and say, yeah, I think that, you know, the adults, of course, but reasonable doubts. Without any reasonable doubts, I can’t come to a guilty verdict. Right. And that’s just me. So what does it say about law and order when citizens feel like that they have to get involved or take on 3rd party situation? What do you think?

[Jay]

I think that the answer to that question is different and it will depend on where you live. If you’re packed like a sardine can, like people are in New York City, yeah, let’s just say in New York City, I don’t think all of New York is like this. But in metropolitan areas where the population is condensed and everyone’s living on top of each other, crime is a problem. So many different factors are at play. It says that there is no law and order and that the people that are in charge have no idea what they’re doing in this particular instance where they are catching criminals and letting them go, it seems like the. Law abiding citizens are the ones that are bearing the brunt of the punishment for what the law breaking citizens do. It says that the institutions that are in place to uphold law and order are failing in metropolitan cities, and people no longer feel. Safe to live there now. Granted, we believe that each person or I personally believe that each person is responsible for their own safety, and you should be able to defend yourself. And you should put yourself in a position to defend yourself at all times. I suppose I believe that. But when you’re in a city where the institutions have made that practically impossible, I’m not sure what these people were expecting. To have happened naturally, something like this would have happened if you disarm everyone and only the criminals have. Or if you don’t punish wrongdoing when the wrongdoer is caught, you’re seeding a lot of rotten seeds that will bring up terrible and rotten fruit, and I think that’s a part of what we see in this particular situation as well. But if you’re out in the middle of, say, West Virginia somewhere, they don’t even have this kind of problem, this is not even a problem that they deal with. The heavy hand of government and the heavy hand of the government trying to police everyone is simply not there.

[MCG]

Well, as you say, armed community is a.

[Jay]

So it depends well as. Right.

[MCG]

Polite community I.

[Jay]

Unarmed people are polite people, sure, but it just says that the institutions that exist in these areas are failing. And I think everyone can see that for what it is right now, I think people have seen it for years. Others, but I think only pockets of people, maybe people who were living in New York, saw it, maybe people who were in government saw it. But now, particularly after the pandemic, the entire country is aware of how terrible things have gotten, and I don’t think it’s sustainable. These things are imploding, and for Christians, I suppose it would be a wake up call. For us to realize and remember, who do we look to for our justice, for our safety, for our protection, for our lives? Who are we putting our faith and config? And is it in these institutions that are rotten to the core that they’ve recently been exposed as such? Or is it in the Lord Jesus Christ? And are we living accordingly?

[MCG]

Yeah, I think that of course, the defund the police movement did not help New York City removing or reducing the number of police officers that are on trains and stations does not help neither.

[Jay]

Right.

[MCG]

But the same is true as he said, for many major cities. I think most Americans, I would imagine, feel the same way I do about. And you just don’t know what to expect on there. I have stories I remember. I was on the metro a train, and I had gone into the city. I think I had to go and take my laptop to the IT department for something, something that they couldn’t do remotely or whatever. And I’d walk from. The office I had to go to to another office that I used to work at to kind of say hi to my former coworkers. Then I walked from there to the metro and this is an area where the train would stop every minute or so for the next, you know, five or six stops or so. So I jumped on the train and for some reason I decided I’m going to stand up and there was this really big dude sitting about 3 rows back and he looked really dirty. He looked homeless because all his earthly goods were sitting in the aisle next to him. Assume and as I was standing there, I saw his face began to get really. Like he was in pain kind of thing. And once his face was relaxed, the stench just hit you. It dawned on me that he was sitting there.

[Jay]

My word defecating.

[MCG]

Going to the bathroom, basically.

[Jay]

Ohh my goodness.

[MCG]

It was one of their most awful scent. Oh my God, you couldn’t ever get in a train. I remember I probably held my breath for probably 30 seconds before the train stopped. I was standing at the door waiting for the door to open, ran out of the train and make a turn to go into a different car. I didn’t even have enough here to tell people that were trying to get onto the train that the cat I’d just get off on don’t go on that one. But you never know what you’re going to experience in public transportation. And unfortunately, if you don’t have people enforcing staff and people preventing and keeping decorum, AKA allowing enforcement something, a lot of things gonna happen. What New York have done doesn’t help in all these other things they’ve done defunding the police or whatever. I’ll just leave it at that. But the question and we wrap up with this was Jordan Neely, a soul for whom Christ died?

[Jay]

He absolutely was a soul for whom Christ died and. We ought not to forget that when we are talking about all of the different questions that we asked, the Christian ought to be looking at it from that perspective, because for every Jordan Neely that died on the subway on May 1st of this year. There are thousands of them in the country as well. People who are mentally ill, people who have survived terrible trauma, people who are in need of the savior. We should absolutely look at everyone through those lens. It is difficult. I’m not saying that Jordan, nearly in particular. Some people are. Downright unlovable, in the sense that they’re just. Prickly, and it’s hard to love them or interact with them, but, and I’m speaking to myself here as well, we ought to remember that these are souls for whom Christ died and we should be engaging not just with them, but with their entire situation as such.

[MCG]

Yeah, I would agree with you absolutely, Jordan nearly was a soul for whom Christ died. And so are you two listening friends. So am I. We are all soulful, whom Christ died. The Bible tells us in Luke 1910 for the son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost. All of us were lost, or probably still our loss. If we have never come to repent of faith in Jesus Christ that include Jordan Neely, I don’t know about his. I don’t know if you ever heard the gospel. I’m gonna assume, based on his history, maybe not. But the Bible declares in John 316 for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Yes, Jordan Neely was the soul for whom Christ, thy but he is the truth for all of us, jordanelle. To face his maker, he was strapped knife for 27 says, and as it appointed unto man, wants to die. But after this the judgment Jordan Neely is being judged or has been judged by the righteous judge he has been judged by the judge of all the. With just judgment eclectic’s 12, verse 14 says for God shall bring every work into judgement with every secret thing, whether it be good or would it be evil, Roman two and verse 6 God will render to every man according. To his deeds, magic 12 and verse 26. But I say unto you, that every idle word that a man shall speak, they shall give account dear of in the day of judgment. What I’m saying, friends, what I’m saying, listener, is that one day you will have the answer to the highest judge, the creed of the universe. Jehovah God, the question is, Are you ready to meet your maker face to face? Jordan Leather did not know that May 1st, 2023 was its last date on. But you can be prepared for that day, even though you don’t know when that day is coming. You can be prepared for that, which is inevitable. First you must see yourself the way God sees you as a Sinner in need of a savior. The Bible declares in Romans 3 verse 23 for all. Have sinned and come short of the glory of God. That all includes you Romans 5, verse 12, where forth by one man sin entered into the world and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men. For that all hath sin Romans 310, as is written, there is none righteous. No, not one. And even our righteousness the Bible declares there are as filthy rags. Even the good work that we do. The Bible says they are just merely faulty perfil rags. So not only are we sinners according to God’s word, but sin. Has consequences. By declaring Romans 6 verse 23 for the rages of sin is death, but the gift of God’s eternal life to Jesus Christ, our Lord’s friends. Your Sinner and it will punish for your sin and the Bible says that the wages what you earn from that sin is death. But God did not leave us hopeless. The Bible, the author declares in Romans 5, verse 8. But God commended his love towards us. And that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us while we were filthy while we were unlovely, while we were yet in our sin, God sent his son to die for his enemies, in other words. We were thirsty. We were hungry. We were fed up. And Christ came and gave us a drink. He came and fed our soul. Came and died for us. From all indications that I’ve seen, no one offered Jordan nearly a drink. But I pray that if you realize that your soul is thirsty, your soul is hungry, your soul is crying out for more than what it has, that you’ll reach out to Jesus. Because he’s the one who has made provision for you. The Bible make it clear. Pay the debt that he did not owe. We owe a debt that we could not pay. We needed someone to wash our sins away. Admonition to you. My plea to you is that for almost Chapter 10 and verse 9, make it clear that if thou shall confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus. I shall believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead. Thou shall be saved, for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture said, whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed, for there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek. For the same law overall, it’s rich unto all that call upon him, or whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. I manage you. Would you cry out to the Savior today?

[Jay]

Thank you so much for listening to the Removing Barriers podcast. Make sure to rate US everywhere you listen to podcasts, including Spotify, Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, or Stitcher. Removing barriers, a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

Thank you for listening. To get ahold of us to support this podcast or to learn more about removing barriers, go to removingbarriers.net. This has been the removing Barriers podcast we attempted to remove barriers so that we all can have a clear view of the cross.