Episode 124

When we think of England, many things come to mind: a rich and varied history, beautiful scenery and buildings, the British Crown, and an incredible number of preachers, authors, and missionaries whose ministries reached millions of people the world over. But the country is in dire need of the gospel today, and Christians like Amanda Baker have made it their mission to share the gospel of Jesus Christ with souls in England for the glory of God. On this episode of the Removing Barriers podcast, we will hear about God’s call on Amanda Baker’s life, how she is laboring alongside her coworkers for the advancement of the gospel in Lincolnshire and how barriers are being removed so that the people can have a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

What would you say is the biggest barriers that are preventing the people of England from seeing the cross clearly from receiving the gospel?

[Amanda]

I think it’s what they say to me every day when we’re out passing out literature. I’m OK.

[Jay]

Thank you for tuning in to the Removing Barriers podcast. I’m Jay. And I’m MCG and we’re attempting to remove barriers so we can all have a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

This is episode 124 of the Removing Barriers podcast, and this is 11th in the series of on the mission field. And in this episode. We will be going on the mission field with missionary Amanda Baker to England. Amanda, it is a pleasure and welcome to the remove and Barriers Podcast.

[Amanda]

Thank you so much for having me. Looking forward to. Sharing this evening.

[MCG]

All right, tell us about yourself, your family, your calling. Whatever you feel comfortable sharing with the general.

[Amanda]

Public great. Well, as is mentioned, my name is Amanda. I grew up in a pastors home and my parents, when I was a child, they were planting a church in Dayton. So that’s kind of where I grew up in the middle of a church plant and we moved from there when I was 21 to live out in Virginia Beach, where my dad’s a pastor. Now of my sending church. And during those years as a teenager, the Lord called me to missions, and I didn’t know what it would look like. I didn’t really expect it to look like this. Me by myself on the mission. Field course with the. But I’m thankful for what the Lord has done in that I finished college and taught in Christian School for about 10 years before I moved to England, and so have had several experiences in ministering. But I’m thankful for what the Lord has called me to do, and being able to do that now.

[Jay]

So how long have you been on the mission field? And if you feel comfortable sharing where in England are you serving?

[Amanda]

So in May it’ll be six years that I’ve been on the field and very thankful for what the Lord has done in this first term really. And I’m serving right now with a church planting team in the county of Lincolnshire and we work in the town of Boston. And so that’s where our church is being planted currently.

[MCG]

So you’re in the real Boston?

[Amanda]

The real one, the first one, we say, you know, first bone.

[MCG]

How do they say it over there?

[Amanda]

No, they don’t say that over there. We Americans. That’s what we tell the Americans so that we’re clear, that it’s not Boston, MA.

[MCG]

OK.

[Amanda]

There’s actually a lot of history with the Pilgrims in that area, and so it’s pretty incredible as an American to see it from that side of things. But yeah, original Boston.

[Jay]

So you say you grew up in a pastors home. Could you give? Us a short? Well, it doesn’t have to be short. You can make it as long as you want like why am I saying short? Tell us your testimony. If you could quickly. But how long has the Lord known you? How did you come to faith growing up in a pastors home? Typically there are two different versions. There’s usually someone who is born in the family in the pastors home, heard the Gospel of gazillion. Times can’t remember the time that they actually remembered when they came to faith, but they know that they belong to the Lord. It’s just they’ve been in it for so long and then there are others, of course, who came to faith later. What’s your story? How did you come to faith live?

[Amanda]

Growing up in a pastor’s home. Yeah. So of course, we heard the gospel. But I have a distinct memory. Honestly, of Sunday evening, almost 34 years ago now that I was sitting in a church service, I can’t tell you what my dad. Was preaching about, but the Holy Spirit behind working in my heart about the fact that I wasn’t going to heaven, that I wasn’t a believer because of who my dad was. Of what he does what? He did, you know, and at that. Time and so I remember at the end of the service, you know, my dad, as he does every service, even to this day, asking folks if they have a desire to trust Christ to, you know, come forward. And so I did that. I was, you know, about probably 5 years old. And I remember my mom sat down with me and asked me some questions and opened the Bible and showed me. That salvation is through faith in Christ alone. So we began to go through that and she asked, you know, did I want to trust Christ for myself? So I said yes, you know, so I trust that Christ said evening I have a real distinct memory of that, you know, and I’m thankful for it. I’m thankful for the opportunity. To have heard the gospel so many times, and for that Sunday evening that I chose Christ for myself instead of just, you know, riding on the coattails of my folks and what they did for a ministry for themselves.

[Jay]

Did you ever struggle with assurance later on in your life? Maybe as a teenager or as a young adult, or at any point in your life up to this point?

[Amanda]

Yeah, as a teenager, I remember struggling with some of that. I really believe it was a sense of I actually started studying God’s word. I started paying attention to what was going on in, you know, in church and youth group.

[Jay]

Right.

[Amanda]

I had a a really influential youth pastor. And so the Lord began working and I really believe it was. The growth in my life of realizing what salvation is and how that works itself out, you know, James talks about faith without works, is dead, you know? And so it wasn’t a man. Growth, I guess maybe as we grow in Christ and we know who we are in him, there are some growing pains in that as well and becoming sure of those things that we knew in such a small faith as a child.

[Jay]

Sure, absolutely.

[Amanda]

But that small faith is enough for salvation. We don’t expect at a young age to know what we know now. And or even then and so, but even in those things, I’m thankful. For what the? Lord did and assuring my heart of what he did in my life, even at that young age.

[MCG]

So a lot of time with missionary go off on the mission field, they have to go to language training. How is language training going for you?

[Amanda]

Language training is a lifelong commitment to learning. No, it’s really it’s, you know, I get that a lot because I do have a lot of friends who spend a lot of time and language. And I mean, I got to the field and I taught Sunday school the first Sunday I was there. With the kids. You know, it was a great. Opportunity in that sense. But there are some significant differences in our culture and even in our language that really become, it becomes necessary for me as a missionary, to know that. So that I can minister effectively and so although sometimes it seems a bit. It what’s the word? Sometimes I can’t think of the word between which you know. English it is. But it becomes a bit sticky sometimes between the two, because maybe it may seem offensive to British people if I don’t speak the way. That they do. But I’ve tried the. Accent, you know, and the response usually is, it’s humorous to them and. And I find that when I come back to the states or I speak to people in the states, when I’m over there, the response is usually humor in what they hear, you know. And so I just end up laughing all the time. It’s fine. I’m really. I’m used to it.

[MCG]

Yeah, I’m from the Caribbean. So when I came to the US and went to a Christian college. You know, in the Caribbean we use the British spelling and stuff like that, so we have owe you in our color and savior and neighbor and stuff like that. Do you practice this spelling or are you a stickler to the American spelling? I will stick it to my Caribbean spelling so.

[Amanda]

So I try, I try to take polls like, you know, be all things to all men. Right. And so it really depends on my audience. Honestly, my prayer letters that are written for the majority of American churches, I try to normalize my American spellings for what I do for the British churches. I definitely use British spellings. I used to teach English here in the states. But I am sure that no one will ever hire me to do that again because I’m not sure which way is up sometimes when it comes to spelling it. But I try to be sensitive to that on both sides so that it doesn’t offend either way.

[Jay]

OK, you are serving and please correct my pronunciation. But you said it’s Lincolnshire, Lincolnshire. OK. And could you tell us more about that area? What is the population like? What are the people like? Because I’m thinking England, I mean many great. The preachers and many great writers and giants and the faith have come from that land, and so I’m imagining. England, of course, is a Christianized country. Is that still the case, or is it more Christian Ish Christianist. Have they gone beyond Christian and gone into? Maybe postmodernism? Is it more? Of an influx. Of different religions and ideas. Now, what is the makeup of the area? The people that you’re serving? Generally, what is their spiritual status generally?

[Amanda]

OK, so I’m still learning a lot about the area that I’m working in now. I spent the first four years on the field in a different a neighboring county, but I see a lot of similarities between the two, so there’s a lot of immigration that happens mostly because of the open borders prior to Brexit. When the United Kingdom left the European Union before that time, people moved across country lines across border lines like we move between states. So there was no I mean really. There was a reciprocity with the healthcare and with just all of the governmental systems and so you’ve got a myriad of cultures all just kind of thrown into even more. So I feel like than in the states maybe more concentrated than what we see in the states because in the states. Seems to be a pocket. A culture in this area or that area, I mean, save a New York City or something like that, but we find pockets of these cultures. Those pockets are all just mixed up in England. From my experience, the first church I was in were at church by the time I left of about 70 people, and there were approximately 15 nationalities. Represented in a group of 70 people. So you can imagine with that kind of diversity, there’s a lot of difference in the type of people you’re dealing with as well. Lincoln here. Because we’re moving farther away from London, the area where I’m working with my coworkers right now is mostly agricultural. The area used to be a marshland that was. Called the Fens. And they drew those marshes. And then, because of that, it produced this incredibly fertile. Soil and farmland that they capitalize on that in that area. And so there’s a lot of Eastern European immigrants who have come to the. Area to work, whether it was prior to or after Brexit, I don’t know all those numbers, but really it’s not unusual for me to walk through a Town Center in Boston on a Saturday morning and see or hear less English like English is not what we hear we’re hearing and I can’t. Distinguish those languages, but two European languages, Bulgarian, Romanian, Russian and Lithuanian. There’s a lot of other languages that are there, and that’s who we’re encountering. And so there’s a lot of that. There are, of course British people as well, which again, even within that British includes Scottish, Welsh. Northern Irish and English. So I mean, so you’ve got all these different cultures that are all mixing together. And so that makes the background in which we’re planting a church. It’s not really a British church. And so we just reach out to whomever is willing to come. As far as the culture being Christianized or Christian ISH, however we wanna. Refer to it on paper. Everywhere you’re going to read that England, as a Christian nation that’s national religion as Anglicanism, that’s what we’ll read everywhere. But it is very unusual for people to be. Readily Christian, it’s not the norm. There are plenty of people we speak to who are either completely opposed to the Christian viewpoint, whether by in the mode of atheism or agnosticism, or they know it they’ve heard it, but they’re not interested whatsoever. And the other thing that we run into. A lot is people will say I don’t like what such and such a religion forces me to do or. What box that paints me into? So I’ve created my own. I believe this because and so they take bits and pieces from all these other religions, and I really usually refer to that as just a humanism because it really just puts man at the center and says I don’t like what God says. I don’t like what any of these other religions say, so I’ll just. Make my own way. And that’s really what we deal with more often than anything.

[MCG]

Yeah, it sounds like we have a vast majority in terms of the religious breakdown. Do you see that in your area in terms of Muslim? That’s seem like to be a growing population over there and. Or do you see more of a European type religion? I would say Muslim is more Middle Eastern type religion.

[Amanda]

So definitely in the first city that I lived and worked in, it was definitely a very heavily populated Muslim culture. Certain areas of the town and even schools in that were almost exclusively Muslim. Boston seems to be more in that European the orthodoxy, that type of thing that we run into, we do see Muslims as well. There are Middle Eastern. Folks everywhere, honestly, the restaurants and things like that will find them in those areas, but I don’t see. In Boston, as much of the Middle Eastern. Like the Muslim women, I’ve had opportunities to talk to Muslim women in the first town I worked in, mostly because they won’t talk to the men, but they would talk to me if we’re out in the Town Center. And so that was. Always something that we look forward to trying to talk to them when the opportunities arose.

[MCG]

Oh yeah, that’s good, because I’ve knock on many doors and the Muslim women usually don’t want to speak to you. So there’s definitely what the Lord uses you. Let’s back up a little bit. When did the Lord first burden your heart for the people of England?

[Amanda]

So I mentioned you know, in my testimony that I was called to missions as a teenager. I was actually 14 years old. And at the time when I told my parents that this is what I believe God wanted me to do, and they began to help in that calling of my life, you know, they sacrificed to allow me to visit several countries. Take missions trips in the summers. Any opportunity that was there. And so when the Lord began to work in my heart, I’d finished a Masters degree. I was teaching in. The Christian School. And began seeking the Lord about with this be the right time. After spending some time working in a church here as an adult, and so we began praying my parents and I particularly began praying about where the Lord would have me serve. And I had never visited England, really. It was nowhere on my radar, as we say, and I began praying through a list of places that I had. Visited and each one of them has special. You know, there was something about it that I believe maybe the Lord would have me serve there. And what I found when I got to the list end of a about 10 countries, I really was at the point of none of these are where God wants me to serve. So what am I supposed to do now? Because I wanted so badly to start out on deputation. And get moving in that direction. But my dad very wisely said to me you don’t wanna go on a deputation saying, hey, I’m gonna be a missionary. Where you gonna? Well, I don’t know yet. But let’s go ahead and get this thing started. You know, we needed a specific call to that location. And so really offhandedly, a friend of mine. Said to me, well, have you ever thought about working with these people over in England? And my initial response was no, that’s too easy. That’s not what that can’t be it. But I took it and I prayed about it the same way I had the other countries, and it was so much different. The Lord’s response, his working in my heart about that, the way that it became. Part of everything that came up had a connection to England somehow, and so I noticed after several weeks that this was something that the Lord was doing. And so we began praying specifically about that. I got in contact with some missionaries and planned a survey trip in 2013. And was able to stay in the home of a British pastor and his family. And I really was in the country for about maybe 8 hours. And I was convinced that this is what God wanted. And so the burden for the people was something that the Lord really developed and continues to develop. I know that the phrase is meant for maybe a a long distance relationship between a couple you know, but I feel as though that absence makes the heart grow fonder. I’m so ready to go back to that and that’s only something the Lord does because, you know it’s a call. Playing that’s fueled by a burden that he gives, and I’m very thankful for that.

[MCG]

Well, So what are some things that you’d think that folks should keep in mind if they are called like you are to serve the Lord or to be a missionary in England?

[Amanda]

So I’ve mentioned it a little bit already, but I think the similarity of our languages and even on the surface, what people see as the culture. Can be a little bit deceiving and it’s something that I didn’t really expect. You know, people talk about, I understand. I have friends in, you know, really remote areas and the culture shock and reverse culture shock and the things like that. And I thought, no, this won’t really be an issue for me because everything’s so much the same, but it’s so similar in some ways that. The differences are hard to pick out, but they are there, and the longer I’m there, the more I notice them and it really at times can be the dividing line between my recognition of the difference in their culture. And not trying to push my American mindset on the British people are very resistant. I can you can imagine, to an American mindset, they’re very resistant to that because we all know that the Americans and the British parted ways, you know, several 100 years ago. And naturally, the way that British people think. And the way that even within the church, and I’m not even speaking about unsafe people, I’m talking about people within the church. It’s different. It’s not wrong. It’s just not. It’s not American. And as an American going into a culture like that, that looks so similar, there was a struggle for me to not Americanize them. To not try to Americanize, and I think that there’s nothing wrong with being an American. I have no issues with that. Obviously I am one. But in ministry, in their culture, I was quickly made aware of the fact that and not in a bad way, but just quickly made aware of the. Fact that it was important for me. To share in their culture, to observe, to learn, someone suggested to me to pray that God would give me some friends who I could speak to without offending them to ask questions. You know why? Why do we do it? This, you know, is this a British thing? Is this you know what? And the Lord’s been so gracious. To give that to me, to be able to learn the culture so that I wouldn’t bring an offense in any way. So I think that probably is one of the things that I often try to help people when they come to visit, you know, don’t be alarmed when you hear someone say one example I use is in the church. People will often refer to their spouse as their partner. And the first time I heard it, I saw. Are are they not married? You know, because it’s a different use of the word, but thankfully I was able to ask him. So why do you refer to your husband? I know you’re married to. As your partner, she looked at me and she said I don’t know, that’s just what? We say, she says. What does it mean to you when someone says that that person is a partner? And I said, well, if it’s not a business relationship? Usually it has a negative connotation even in a you know, a homosexual situation. I knew that wasn’t the case, but you’re sitting there looking at it and saying, you know, why would you say that? But having the opportunity to learn those things and not just criticize them and say, you know, well, Americans do it this way and that makes more sense. It doesn’t always. You know, it doesn’t always make more sense. And so just learning that and being able to be sensitive to their culture. Without stepping over, you know, putting my foot in it.

[Jay]

As I would say, yeah, you’ve spoken. In certain terms about handling the differences in culture, as you’ve just done, I have a question that has a little bit of spin to it. We know that England has an actual church. The Church of England. How much of an influence does that church have on the everyday lives? Of the citizens that you meet in your area, I don’t know about the country as a whole, but in your area in particular, do you find that it has negative effects on what you’re trying to do in terms of sharing the gospel? Or maybe there’s positive, does it? Help do people when you talk to them generally. Do they understand who God is, what sin is? Is the basics of what you would call Christianity, as it were, or is it more like an acts chapter 17 culture where folks have no idea that they have a very different understanding of God, not a really clear understanding of sin, more like an act 17 culture? Which of those two do you find that it actually is when you talk to people?

[Amanda]

So it’s an interesting question because for the first four years we would stand out in front of a 900 year old cathedral. You know and you know, hand out literature every Monday and several times people in religious attire, vicars in the church or that. Would come by. We offer them literature just like we do anyone. Else and their response is always. You know I don’t need that. You know, it’s kind of an ignoring us. The average person realizes that there is a historical tradition that Anglicanism is our national religion. It’s the, you know, it’s what the queen for a long time. And now the king follows. But I have not run into a whole lot of. People that have anything to do with the Anglican church, if they’re involved in the Anglican church, they’re probably, and this is not being unkind, but they’re probably in their 70s or older. They grew up going to Sunday school every Sunday. They grew up. All of these things, but the people. In the generations following them did not, it wasn’t as traditional. Now Easter and Christmas, the churches will be full. They’ll have special events and people will go out of tradition, but there’s not a whole lot of. I don’t want to say there’s not a whole lot of truth because I know that they read from the Bible, the English Bible, oftentimes even from the King James and God’s word does not return void. I know that and I believe that there are people in the Anglican Church who are. Believers, they’ve just not been taught proper doctrine and church polity and all those things. If you walk through a cathedral, you’ll find truth. In the historical plaques of people who were martyred for their faith and it tells why they were martyred. I mean there’s truth in that sense, which is almost a little bit discouraging that it’s right there to read and people walk by it every day. I mean, the plaques are Big Blue circular signs. Very clearly. You know, that’s what we know nationwide is a historical placard. And really, I mean, I can think of several people. I had frequent conversations with that they understand who God is. They understand that we’re center. But many of them who are part of the Anglican Church come back with, well, I’ve done too many bad things. I’ve had that conversation several times. There’s no hope for me. And of course there’s hope in Christ, and so we always take them to scripture. But if they have any concept of God, it’s very much a workspace, religion and. What can I do? My former coworker had a conversation with one of the vicars one day. Just ask him the question, not trying to make fun of him or anything. Just ask him the question how can I know that I can go to heaven when I leave this life? What does the Bible say about this? Because they read from the Bible, so that’s not a invalid question. In his response, unfortunately, after several attempts and really my coworker was trying to give him the answer, you know his response was really you don’t need to worry about that. That’s not important. Just continue coming to church, be a part and. And in addition to that, his response was actually I can’t really help you. You’ll have to talk to someone higher up. Than I.

[MCG]

Oh wow.

[Amanda]

And so that is probably one of the saddest interactions that we’ve had, knowing that the people who are supposed to be the spiritual leaders don’t have an answer. So it does for us on to share truth. You know, when the people who who identify themselves as the leaders can’t give you. An answer what do you do? What do you do?

[MCG]

So Amanda, you’ve been talking about, you know, the sad spiritual state that England is in. But if you go back a couple of 100 years, we’re talking about a country that was sending missionaries all over the world. How did they get where they are today?

[Amanda]

I don’t, I don’t know the exact answer to that. My guess in studying and seeing the culture today, it’s a disregard for God and his word. That would be my general supposition, and I believe that because. I’m almost 40 years old. The number of people my age that I’ve spoken to, some who have gotten saved as adults and are telling me, you know, they actually opened Bible they had, they call them re religious education assemblies at school. And they sang some songs and we heard about this. But the kids today, that’s. Not part of what goes on in school anymore. There is still an RE class, but it is every religion you can think of, so it’s just a plethora of. Here’s all the choices you have. Choose one or don’t it’s up.

[Jay]

To you. So Ari is religious education? Is that what it stands for?

[MCG]

OK.

[Amanda]

So you know, in thinking about some of them and then there are others who I was been discipling a lady recently, even virtually, who had never interacted with the Bible at all. I mean, she never had a Bible. She went and purchased one after she got saved. And so it’s really a joy to be able to share with someone that. But at the same time, we look at it and say. I don’t remember a time for me that I didn’t know how to find what I needed and got. Word, even just logistics of being able to open my Bible and find a book or a verse or whatever. And it’s not on her. She didn’t know. She was never taught. And so we find people in every gamut of that. There’s another lady that I’ve worked with who grew up in the Catholic Church, Catholic School, Catholic Church, and she’s very familiar with the Bible. She knows what the Bible says according to what she was taught by the, you know, by the priests. But her understanding of salvation was very skewed. Because it’s all. So you’re dealing with people on every gamut of, you know, the spectrum, because it’s just so varied and really you see it changing with each generation and going farther and farther and farther away. And it begins, I believe, with the marginalization of even speaking about. God and his word, let alone using it. In whether it’s in education or in the homes on their own.

[MCG]

You know, the sad thing about all that is that I feel like America or the USA is on that same part.

[Amanda]

Yeah, yeah, unfortunately there are some very familiar things that I hear in American news that I’m already seeing what’s happening in British culture, and that’s not the way we. Want to go? And that’s not an indictment on Britain. That’s an indictment on believers and really a call to action for believers to be that soul and light wherever we are, because otherwise we’re just going to be marginalized.

[MCG]

Yeah, what are some needs that you think that if they are failed would help you be more effective as a missionary in England?

[Amanda]

So one of the major things that we have run into my current team is because we’re starting as a small group, we have a church right now of about 10 adults and then probably 8 or 9 kids, I. So we don’t have a place to meet regularly and it’s not a problem for us who are part of the church, who believe that the church is not in a building and it’s all these things. But we spent the first year renting a facility at an odd time of the day on Sunday and saw very few visitors come. Very few people coming through. We change locations, change the time of day, change location. We’re seeing many more visitors, but we’re not seeing as permanent. Because we’re just another group that meets in a Community Center. Thankfully, God’s given us favor with the Community Center leaders we’re working with right now, but I know many missionaries in the UK really across the UK that struggle with finding a place to meet. It’s not for lack of buildings. There are empty buildings all over the place. But it’s really waiting on God’s timing for all of that. We’re not eligible to take on a mortgage. I don’t know that we could even financially handle a mortgage if we did that at this point. So it’s having all of those and wanting to be more than a 2 hour ministry on a Sunday morning to the community having an outreach. Where you know English culture is, there’s churches everywhere and the church stores are always open. Even the churches of different faiths, the doors are always open. It’s a place for people to come. It’s a safe place. It’s all of those things. And so not having a facility that’s ours has really hindered the ability that we have to reach out. In various ways, since probably before COVID, we would have been a little bit more. Successful at using our homes for outreach, but we’ve seen quite a difference in the mentality since then. Really a turning from that, not that we aren’t willing to open our homes, but people are very hesitant to come in to a home where they don’t know the people. And then it’s just having our name out in the community. Being there and available for them in a place where we can Minister to them and the doors are open for them and so that is the first major hurdle for a church and really the success. That’s a buzzword. But you know what I mean when I say that the success of churches and England really seem to rise and fall on whether or not the ministry has a facility to use permanently. So we’re taking steps in that process and doing what we can to become more permanent even in the Community Center that we’ve moved to right now. And so as we see that happen. That will help. The second thing is we spend so much time distributing literature. So in England, were allowed to put literature directly into the letterboxes or the mailboxes of each home. It doesn’t need any post marking, it just needs the physical labor of walking the streets and putting the information into the homes. And that information can be anything from a gospel leaflet to a John and Romans to a whole Bible, whatever we wanna put through the letterbox and it’ll sit. We’re allowed to do that. And so financially it’s expensive. But of course it’s worth it. We’ve met people. We know, people who have come to Christ because of a track that’s come through their door. And then we spend a lot of time out in the open air markets handing out information about the church and gospel literature as well, and mostly because people walk and they are out, they’re not all locked away in their cars, going from point A to point B. So not only being able to afford the literature that we use, but finding. Good fundamental biblically sound literature. That’s printed with British spellings because the concept is well, you know, it’s already printed. It’s American, it’s fine. Just use it. But again, my coworkers in particular are incredibly sensitive to that, and I think it’s a good thing for us to consider and be wise about the cost of shipping materials from the states into the UK. The shipping and then the import taxes are astronomical, and so it really kind of prices us out of doing that. But even if we were able to bring them with us, it smacks a little bit of this is American, you know, and that can turn people off. And so we do have a couple of publishers that we use, but. I say we’ve written a few things ourselves, you know, and design and print and that kind of thing, but it would be great to see more of that. Available for us to use. That would be biblically sound British spellings, all that good stuff.

[Jay]

What are some of the things you see happening in the churches in the United States that make it more difficult for you to do what you are called to do? In Lincolnshire, in England.

[Amanda]

I’ve been back on my first furlough. It’s been a long furlough and been in 30 or so churches over the last nine months. I love the love that American churches have for missionaries. And the generosity is incredible, both personally and for the ministry. But I think sometimes the churches. In the states. Are a little bit shortsighted in their. Not all of them, but in their desire to actually physically have a part, you know, to come not for tourism, but to come and actually, you know, jump in, I often invite people to come. And I realize that travel is not cheap, and all of those things, but there’s a sense of commitment. There’s a sense of connection. That happens with people when they can physically visit. And I know that by nature of where I serve, it is a little bit easier. I have friends who are in a remote part of Madagascar. That’s not an easy place to get to, and you know, so I realize that there’s more opportunity, but I wish that more people would take up the opportunity to come be a part. Because even if just for the ease of where we are and that kind of thing, I think things are moving in that direction more so since you know, COVID Nas calmed down in all of those things. But I love it when I have had several teams. I had one last summer, a small team, four people who came and every day it wasn’t about what we were going to see. And we love to show people I love to show people around the country where I live and I serve. Because there’s so much history and there’s so. Many iconic things. To see. And so we plan for that. But when they come with the mentality of give us another job, the encouragement for the missionary is beyond description, honestly. And so I really just would love for people to consider we’ve done this as a family, even growing up, you know, instead of I don’t have anything against Disney or anything like that. But instead of a big stateside vacation, what can we do to use some of that to go on a mission field and see what God is doing? It changes the whole perspective. Of everything that you think about missions, when you have that first hand perspective.

[MCG]

Ah, interesting. Amanda, before we go into this break, I’m curious how difficult it is as a single woman. To actually become a missionary compared to a married man with a wife and kids and was deputation year harder in your opinion as supporting church, more willing to support or not based upon the fact that you are a single woman going after the ministry.

[Amanda]

Yeah, it’s an interesting dichotomy sometimes. Sometimes it’s a definite no from a church, and that’s completely fine. That’s why we are part of, you know, independent, fundamental Baptist churches. We’re not part of an association that sets all of. You know the policies and procedures for a church and people have various opinions about all of that. And I just have really tried to, even on deputation, to present the opportunity for somebody like me to come alongside a church planting couple and make their lives really. Easy and whatever way I can and several churches have caught that vision and have seen I often in conversation with pastors, would ask them, you know, have you considered? What your church would be like if you removed the women, and often it’s a well, yeah, yeah. OK. Oh, I. See where you’re going? And it’s not a US against them. I think that as far as was it harder for me than for a married couple. I don’t know because I’ve never done it. You know, as a married couple, but it really just is asking God to help. Us partner with people. Who have a vision for what we’re doing, are willing to pray for us to support us, obviously, and just letting God put that all together. Deputation is not for the faint of heart regardless. I believe there’s a little bit of a wedding out process, honestly, and if you’re not really called to missions, you may not want to, you know, brace that whole process because it’s not an easy one. But I believe that the. Directs to the churches of like Faith and of the same mentality of Ministry, and God does the work. It’s really all of him. And so I’m thankful for two teams now that I’ve been a part of, who have even on that side of things, that the missionaries have seen a need and allowed me to come alongside them and encourage them. I mean, one of the things that my goals in ministry other than evangelizing lost people and edifying Saints and the church establishing churches is to encourage my. Workers my parents have had people through the years who have come alongside them, both single and married, and have been great encouragers to them. Just by working alongside them, and that’s kind of the model that I’ve taken to try to come alongside my coworkers and encourage them and do whatever I can to make the jobs that are specific to them as pastor and pastors. Life easier and I believe that it’s a good model. The team is a good model on the field as well and we have the encouragement of each other together, which is. A great thing. But I won’t say it was easy. Nothing easy about reputation, but it was a good process and it was a good learning experience for me.

[MCG]

You’re listening to the removing various podcasts. We sit down with missionary Amanda Baker and learning all about her mission field. We’ll be right back.

[Jay]

Hi, this is Jay. MCG and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to removingbarriers.net and subscribing to receive all things removing barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at removing barriers.net/donate removing barriers. A clear view of the cross.

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[MCG]

All right, Amanda, let’s go into a little bit of a fun section and learn some of your favorites. Tell us, what is your favorite scripture verse?

[Amanda]

This is a hard. One for me to choose because I think in different stages of life. Things change that are favorites in that. But one of the verses that the Lord really used in my life during deputation was second Corinthians 514 and 15. For the love of Christ, constrain is us because we thus judge that if one died for all, then we’re all dead, and that he died for all that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them. And rose again. It gives me a purpose every day that I get up. I I don’t live to myself. But I live to him, who died for me. I love that.

[Jay]

What is your favorite historical biblical accounts? Some people call them Bible stories we don’t like to call them Bible stories because they actually happen. They’re true. So what is your go?

[Amanda]

Ahead, I love that I. Love that, you know, looking at the questions I thought I knew exactly what you were going at. I say that often to my kids and teaching Sunday school. This is not just a story I want to tell you a story. I want to. Tell you what God actually did I love. The account of Joseph in his life, you know, God used him in unusual and unexpected ways as a young person. And I always love to point out to young people how God used young people in the Bible and that we don’t have to wait until we’re older for God to use us. I love his obedience. And the fact that God never records that he complained even though he was unjustly thrown in prison and betrayed beyond belief by his own family and every 2023 mentality would be I have a right to complain and he didn’t. I love his choice. At the end of his life, to love his brothers, regardless of their betrayal. And you know that diversity endogeneous is that he chose that because he trusted God’s plan, even though he didn’t know what it was. You can tell by what he said that he trusted God’s plan and so often I feel that way. In my own life looking. At I don’t understand it, but I. Know that I can trust him. He’s meaning it for good, and so I love. The story of Joseph.

[MCG]

What is the most convicting scripture passage to you?

[Amanda]

I thought through this one for a while and I think what came to mind was some 139. You know, David says, you know, search me. Oh, God know my heart. I know that several times in my life I’ve gone to this Psalm and in times of spiritual apathy where you’re kind of like I it’s something’s not right. I don’t know what it is. That I need to get a hold of God and I need something from him and I go to that passage. I love that this almost says to the Lord search me and know my heart, knowing that God already knows everything about.

[MCG]

Us, right.

[Amanda]

And then really just asking God to reveal something to me that I don’t know about myself. When we think we’re the ones who know ourselves the best, it’s a reminder that God knows me in a way that. Nobody else does. And is able to reveal those things to me and really hone in on what needs work in my life and how he can work in my life. It’s a great path.

[Jay]

What is the most? Comforting scripture verse or scripture passage for you.

[Amanda]

Probably one of my favorites for a long time, so I’m 61, one through 4 again David talks about. Crying out to the Lord from the ends. Of the earth. When you’re overwhelmed, he uses the word overwhelmed as something that caught my attention in college, really, and is a wonderful passage to remind me that when I’m overwhelmed, when I feel like I’m at the end of the earth all by myself and have you know, no support or whatever, which is never actually true. But when those things come, I’m reminded that the Lord hears my cry from. The ends. Years and we can trust and shelter in him. Recently, Jeremiah’s call at the beginning of Jeremiah one is something that’s just been a real comfort to me. You know that got knew him from before he was even formed in his mother’s womb. And then in all of that, you know, we know Jeremiah was offered a hard job. He wasn’t given an easy job. And the Lord called him to something that was really difficult. And I love Jeremiah 18. The Lord says, be not afraid of their faces. And just the reality that God knows we’re fearful. And for somebody like Jeremiah, who was going to stand up to, to people who were literally. Going to hate him and he told him, don’t even be afraid of their. Faces. So that’s another. One just recently that I really was encouraged. By that so.

[MCG]

What is your favorite hymn of? The faith I love.

[Amanda]

I love singing. I love music. Full stop. So that’s a hard one to pin down to one. But if anyone asks me a song that I want to sing, I love the song. My hope is in the Lord musically. I love it because I’m an Alto and it has a wonderful Alto line. Especially in the. Course, but the words and I love the. Words of the. It’s for me. He died for me. He lives and everlasting life and light, he freely. He gives, and so realizing that it’s for me, but then. He gives it. To all and it is what I am on. The field to do is to share that truth. And so I love that hope. We live in a world that is missing hope. They’re hopeless in so many areas. And so I love to be able to share the hope of Christ with people.

[Jay]

And who would you say is your favorite giant of the faith from the scriptures? Is it Joseph or is it? Someone else?

[Amanda]

I love the account of Joseph and his life and what we learned. From him, but. Really loved studying the apostle Paul. Of course, the Lord Jesus, obviously. But in studying and looking at a person. 10 who? I’m just always amazed at how God used him despite himself, despite who he was. I often have shared that with people who say, you know, I I can’t because they say well, wait, but look at the apostle Paul, look at what he couldn’t, what he thought he couldn’t do. But he often talks to us about his weakness and what God does through his weakness. And I love in Philippians 4 when he says that he learned to be content. You know, it’s a it was a lightbulb moment for me one day. You know, the apostle Paul had to learn contentment. It wasn’t natural and he’s, you know, sharing those things through just, you know, about half of the New Testament. We have his imprint on that through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. You know what he shared through those things and his joy and suffering and all of those things. There’s just so many things. Telling his life about what God did. Of course he’s a missionary as well, so I love that. And following his missionary journeys and all those things, so always something to learn from the apostle Paul.

[MCG]

What would you say is the biggest barriers that are preventing the people of England from seeing the cross clearly from receiving the gospel?

[Amanda]

I think it’s what they say to me every day when we’re out passing out literature. OK. And it’s literally the gross apathy of I don’t need that. I like my life how it is. I’m fine. Thanks, but no thanks. It’s all of those types of mentalities, and it’s really the need for God to illumine peoples. ‘S hearts to realize their sinfulness. And that’s a hard thing to share with people. When they come to you with, I’m OK. I’m a good person because they’re taught that, you know, being a good person, that’s what is salvation and what’s good for them. So getting them to the point, almost getting them lost before you can share Christ with them, to understand who we are before Christ is unawakened. We really need an awakening to. Understand our sinfulness in light of what Christ has done. You know I mentioned the fact that, you know, I’ve stood at places where people have literally been burned at the stake because they chose to oppose what the church at the time was teaching. The false teaching of the church because they. Open their Bibles and they read what the truth was and they literally are burned at the stake and we stand at a memorial that’s built right there, and it tells the story of what has happened and. People are riding by with no clue of what is there, and I think we’ve got so comfortable and I’m OK. I don’t need what you have, so that really I think is the biggest barrier that we face because nine out of 10 British people will tell me I’m OK.

[Jay]

How do you think when you talk to people who think that they’re OK and they have no understanding of the precarious nature of their spiritual condition, they’re literally hanging over hell by a? How do we share the gospel with them? How do we reach them? How can those? Barriers be removed.

[Amanda]

I don’t want to say that there are tactics or things, but we try to be biblical with them. I can argue with people all day long, but arguments do not point people to Christ. They get my spirit in a way. That’s not biblical. And I’ve been there. I’ve been in those situations where the people, you know, it becomes. Not even a debate. It just becomes an argument, and this is not profitable and what I believe is the best is to take people to scripture, oftentimes taking them to, let’s say, even just starting at the 10 Commandments, which probably a lot of them will be familiar with, at least have heard of, you know, and you say, you know, do you think that? You’ve offended God in these areas. Well, not all of. Them, they would say. And well, have you ever lied? Have you ever you know so and you start asking. These things that in all honesty, none of us could say. Well, no, I. Never lie. You know, and then we open the Bible and say, well, the Lord says that if we offend in one of these points, we’re guilty of all. And all the while praying that God enlightens. Their heart. There’s a. Verse that just came to mind. I was sharing with someone this week in Ephesians. Paul says in Ephesians 118 he talks about in one of his prayers. He says that the eyes of your understanding being enlightened that you may know what is the hope of his calling. And what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the Saints. And he goes on to talk about what we have in Christ. And I think there’s so much we try to share that hope, but at the same time trying to, you know, share. The truth. That because of our sin, it’s because of our sin. Easter and Christmas are typically the times that we have the most conversations with people. In England, because their national holidays mean they’ve been off for Good Friday, all through the weekend, Easter Monday, it’s a lot of time off here. Just recently, as we’ve just celebrated the resurrection and it’s a great time to be able to say, do you have any idea why we celebrate these things? Do you, you know, at Christmas? Do you know who Christ is and why? He came and all of those things and taking them to scripture. And trying then to help them to see that Christ died for us and satisfied the wrath of God for our sins, and that, you know, he rose from the grave three days after Crucifiction and conquered death for all of us who will actually receive his gift of salvation. So, you know, we have to tell them. I remember explaining to a lady one. Time that salvation is a gift she was struggling with the idea that it was well, yes, I know I’m sinful. But I have to do something to, you know, I said no. God’s done that for you. If there’s any string attached to a gift, it’s no longer a gift. And a gift is free and clear. It costs the person who bought it something. In fact, the gift of salvation cost Christ everything, but it’s handed to us freely. And you know it’s freely given. We have to freely receive it. So it’s really an urging people like you said, it is such a precarious position that they’re. And without their knowledge, even I believe some of them, without even knowing where they are. And so it’s asking God to enlighten their mind, to open their mind, to see what grave danger they are actually in, and then allowing us to, you know, let the Holy Spirit work in their lives, to draw them to himself. And just praying that the Lord would. Use that. I’ve seen it work and that’s the beauty of the gospel. It’s powerful beyond what we can do, and it’s not about our words. I try so often to quote Scripture. I love the fact that I carry my phone in my pocket. If I don’t have a. I bowl directly in front of me that I can open the pages and turn them. I have it on my phone. I can open it up and I oftentimes will ask them to read it themselves rather than me reading to them, so they’re seeing it and they’re reading it for themselves and processing it, because then I’m sharing with them the truth that God can use to, again, just. Awaken their heart to their sinfulness, to the fact that Christ has done everything that needs to be done. He’s done it. Speaking of that word, one of the books I love to use and I’ve used it with several folks and have seen them come to Christ because of it, is a little booklet that Carrie Schmidt wrote called done. So little booklet is one of the best gospel presentations for someone who knows very little about the gospel and it’s been translated several different languages and available online for free PDF. I mean, it’s really he’s put it out there for you can buy the booklets as well, but we give those to every visitor who comes to our church. In England, because we want them to walk away with a clear presentation of the fact that what Christ did for us completed everything. There’s two types of religions in the world. You’re either doing something to gain favor with God or it’s already done. And so it’s not an attack on a religion, but it’s a realization that there’s only one relationship to be had, and it’s the one with the finished work of Christ.

[MCG]

Miss Amanda Baker. Thank you so much for joining us and removing Barriers podcast.

[Amanda]

Thank you so much for having me. It’s been a real pleasure to share and I trust that the Lord will encourage someone through our discussion this evening.

[Jay]

Hey, thanks so much for listening to the Removing Barriers podcast. Did you know that you could find us on Twitter, Gab Parlor, Facebook and Reddit, go to removingbarriers.net/contact and like and follow us on social media? Removing barriers, a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

Thank you for listening. To get ahold of us, to support this podcast, or to learn more about removing barriers, go to removingbarriers.net. This has been the removing Barriers podcast we attempted to remove barriers so that we all can have a clear view of the cross.