Episode 123

Travel with us, virtually of course, to Cameroon with missionary Ben Sinclair. We will learn much, from his favorite Cameroonian dish to growing pains of assimilating to their culture, and we’ll hear of the joyous times on the field. There were also times when he asks the Lord “Why?”, such as was the case when his dear friend Charles Wesco was murdered within two weeks of joining him on the mission field in Cameroon. But most importantly, we will learn about his heart to see Cameroonians saved through the gospel of Jesus Christ. All this and more in this installment of On the Mission Field by the Removing Barriers podcast.

[Bro. Ben]

God said go into all the world. He did not promise that we would come back. He promised that he would be with us. Even to the end of the world.

[Jay]

Thank you for tuning in to the Removing Barriers podcast. I’m Jay. And I’m MCG and we’re attempting to remove barriers so we can all have a clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

This is episode 123 of the Removing Barriers podcast. And this is the 10th in the series of on the mission seal. And in this episode, we’ll be going on the mission field with missionary Ben Sinclair to Cameroon. Brother Ben, welcome to the Removing Barriers podcast.

[Bro. Ben]

Thank you so much. I’m honored to be here. Thank you for the invitation.

[MCG]

Thank you for placing us in your busy schedule. So we’re going to talk about the Cameroon, but I found out that, you actually have a new position. Tell us about that.

[Bro. Ben]

Yes, yes. When we visited your church, we were giving out prayer cards as missionaries to Cameroon. And a lot has happened since then. We were on basically a planned furlough, but the Board of Baptist World Mission, which is made-up of 32 pastors from across the. They make up the board of Trustees of Baptist World Mission and they called us and voted unanimously to call us to Baptist World Mission as the next executive director. And so a few months ago, we moved down from our home base in Chattanooga, TN to Decatur, AL, the headquarters of Baptist World Mission. Is here in Alabama. And we found a house and we’ve been going through training and so just about three weeks ago, we moved into our House here in Decatur, AL. And we are excited now about not just reaching Cameroon for Christ, but encouraging missionaries and serving local churches all over this country. And sending their missionaries to reach the World for Jesus Christ. And so we’re glad that God. Has led that way.

[MCG]

Well, well, tell us a little bit more about your family. You’re calling whatever you feel comfortable sharing.

[Bro. Ben]

So I had the privilege of growing up in a Christian home just outside of Chicago. But growing up in a Christian home does not make you a child of God. And so I did not actually really understand that until I was 12 years old, an evangelist came to our church and he shared his testimony, kind of like I’m doing right now. He shared that. Again doing good works and trying to be a good person and going to church was not going to save you that we’re all sinners and the wages of sin is death and death and hell forever. And I was scared to death as a 12 year old boy, I realized for the first time in my life that even though I was trying to be a good person. And even though my parents were leaders and servants in the church, that did not save me, and so I was afraid that if we were in a car accident on the way home, I was going to hell. And I realized that in all reality, for the first time in my life. But thankfully the Evangelist got to the good news that Jesus loved me. He didn’t want me to go to hell. That he sent his son Jesus to die in my place on the cross. And if I would repent and believe in him, he’d give me the gift of eternal life and forgiveness of my sin. And so that night, after everybody in the family went to bed, I got down on my knees and I trusted in price alone. Not my good works or my baptism or any of the other things. I was trusting him before. I Simply put my faith in Jesus Christ and he saved me that night, changed my life. And so within the next year, God begin to do a work. To call me to preach. I didn’t know that’s what was going on. I was very shy, young person. But God put this burden and desire in my heart and even though I fought it and argued with God, I finally surrendered to the. After some weeks and months, and as a 13 year old, I surrendered to be a preacher, if that’s what God had for me. And so I ended up graduating from high school, worked for a year before going to Bible College and at Bible College. I met my wife, which was wonderful, and I also took a missions trip to Cameroon. Actually, a couple of missions. Trips to Cameroon. It was during those trips that the Lord called me to Cameroon, and so my wife and I got married the month after we graduated. We got involved in our local church there in. Yeah, we hooked up with Baptist World Mission and ended up leaving. We were appointed with Baptist World in 2001 and by the time we got through deputation and language school we had two toddlers and a three month old baby, and so we left. Born with three children and then our first furlough, the. Bless us with our 4th, and so we for almost 21 years, almost actually 22 years. We serve the Lord there in Cameroon. And what a wonderful, wonderful ministry it has been to see people saved, baptized, churches established. And working with different Cameroonian brothers and sisters, as well as other missionaries, it has been a wonderful journey and so we thank God for that.

[Jay]

Can you tell us? Where on the globe is Cameroon for those of us that are geographically challenged?

[Bro. Ben]

Excellent question. So when you think of the broad part of Africa and then it narrowing down to the point of South Africa, Cameroon is right in what’s called the hinge or some people call it the armpit of Africa. It’s right there where the broad part kind of bends down. And so it’s right between Nigeria and Central African Republic. It is considered West Africa. Geographically, it’s barely West Africa. But it is considered central Africa economically, that is, they use the Central African franc. And so it’s kind of right there in between West and Central Africa, immediately between Nigeria and Central African Republic.

[Jay]

OK, now if I’m not mistaken, please correct me if I’m wrong. Cameroon was a country colonized by the French. I think I do remember that they speak French in Cameroon, among other languages. Is that right? Can you give us the breakdown in terms of languages, people, groups, ethnic backgrounds, that sort of thing?

[Bro. Ben]

You know that is a very important question. I’m glad you asked that. So there are almost 300 distinct people groups in Cameroon. It’s second only to Nigeria. There are about 300 different languages, 300 different people, groups, tribes. But as you said. It was formerly colonized by actually both the British and the French. And before that, the Germans. So the Germans named Cameroon. They named it Cameroon. And then after World War One, the. Fish took what is now the two Western regions of Cameroon and the eight other regions of Cameroon were colonized by the French. And so after World War Two, when Africa began to pick up their independence in the early 60s, Cameroon got its independence. And so there is this. Long history of part bro. Fish history, where they have British common law and the British education system, and then the other eight regions where they used the French civil law and the French education system. And there’s always been a challenge, a conflict, kind of an undercurrent where the two minority regions did not really. Feel fully content and that really boiled over in 2017. There was a separatist. Movement in the north and southwest regions. It made a declaration of. Attendance on October 1st of 2017 and that basically escalated into a civil war which is still going on today. I talked to. My pastor friends there and yeah, that’s been going on now for five years, I guess. And it’s part of that colonial history that has led to what is going on today. Yeah, it’s very sad.

[MCG]

Yeah, that’s interesting. Why do you think we’re not hearing stuff like that in the news? A major civil war going on in Cameroon and we’re not hearing anything on the media here in the.

[Bro. Ben]

Well, as you know, the US is very introverted in their news and in their focus. And Cameron, of course, is not the only civil war going on in the world. But if it doesn’t really directly affect us like. You know, aid and so forth to Ukraine, you don’t really hear too much about it, and that is a sad reality, whether it be in Yemen or Cameroon or other civil wars going on right now that we just don’t see a whole lot about it. Which is really sad.

[MCG]

So tell me what the Civil war in mind. What are some other things folks should keep in mind if they feel called to go to the camera?

[Bro. Ben]

We are actually praying for more laborers to Cameroon, which sounds really strange since the Lord called. Us back to the US. But we are praying for more missionaries. There’s a family with Baptist World Mission that is just now finishing up their deputation and they are about to leave for language school in France. And we are excited about that. But I say all that to say, the doors are still very wide open to Cameroon. The other eight regions out of the 10 are pretty much business as usual. There is no conflict going on as only in those two regions. And so there is a great need for the gospel. We have been burdened for more than 20 years now to see a just a strong, fundamental, independent Baptist Church proclaiming the gospel in each of the 10 regional capitals of Cameroon. And so during our time, we’ve seen five of those regional. Capitals reached with the gospel and churches established, and so yes, I’d like to encourage people listening to this to pray the Lord of the Harvest, to send forth laborers to those other five. Agents consider their own willingness and their own availability to be one of those laborers and to join us in praying for more laborers in Cameroon.

[Jay]

So when laborers do come to Cameroon because we know God answers prayer, when they do come, they’re going to be stepping into a very unique situation with 300 different ethnic groups colonization by three different countries. I imagine the religious breakdown of the country is all over the map. Can you give us a rough idea? Of what the religious beliefs are of the people of Cameroon.

[Bro. Ben]

Sure. So if you look in an encyclopedia, it will probably say something like 40% music. From 40% Christian and 20% traditional African beliefs. But we learned quickly our first year there that is actually 100% traditional African beliefs and then some are baptized or some go to mosque on Friday. And that kind of a thing, they just kind of added this. New religion to what is really deep and ingrained in their culture, and you know that because when their children get sick, they don’t go to the hospital first they go to the traditional local witch doctor. Whatever you. That’s where their real faith is. And so when you come in and you preach, John, 14, six, that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, that it’s not something you add to it. No, he is the way and that is very abrasive to African culture because they’re very ecumenical. You know, they just want everybody to be happy. With everybody when it comes to religion and so that is a definite challenge that people will face. So yeah, there are lots of churches there, almost all of them are preaching. Jesus plus works for salvation. Pretty much all of them. And then of course, as I said, there are a lot of Muslims in Cameroon as well, but there’s a lot of people that are just seeking for truth. They’re disillusioned with whatever religion they grew up with. They see that it’s empty and hollow. And they need Jesus. And when they come to know him personally, that changes everything.

[MCG]

Brother Ben, how did you personally handle the difference in culture? Between your American culture and norms with the culture of the people of Cameroon.

[Bro. Ben]

Well, I was. Definitely very ignorant. Even as a missions major in Bible College, that really doesn’t equip you to learn and assimilate a new culture. So that is a great question and really it just requires a missionary going to any new culture, a lot of humility. Be willing to make mistakes. When it comes to a language, be willing to just look really stupid as you’re talking like a kindergartener. Or, depending on your level, and to force yourself to learn those things the hard way. We had some very interesting things early on. I remember one time in Cameroon, a chief is traditionally and untouchable. You don’t touch the. Some people don’t even look at the chief. They kind. Look away when they talked to him and so forth. Well, I didn’t know that. So my landlord introduced me to a chief from her village. And of course, I immediately stuck out my hand to shake his hand, and he literally backhanded. He slapped my hand away and turned like physically turned away from me like he was disgusted that I had. Attempted to touch. Ohh wow yeah, those kind of things. You just can’t get those. Out of the textbook each culture.

[Jay]

Right.

[Bro. Ben]

Is different and you just. Have to just have to kind of stumble through them, but when people see that, OK, this person has left their world to come to my world, this must be really important. I mean, they’re making mistakes. They’re showing love. They have done this. They’ve made this huge decision to bring their family here. They must be. Very serious about what they have to tell me, and we found again with you. Quality and just making those mistakes and going on and expressing how much of a difference Jesus has made in your life. It goes a long way as you learn that culture and the food and all that that goes along with that.

[MCG]

What’s your favorite food in Cameroon?

[Bro. Ben]

I think our. Whole family likes a dish that is called fufu and JAMA JAMA. It’s a kind of a corn based ball of corn and then it has huckleberry leaves, kind of like spinach leaves, but it’s technically huckleberry leaf. And I especially like the kind that is mixed with. Palm oil, anything with palm oil is absolutely delicious. So, but that’s probably our family favorite. The favorite dish in our village was called Achu, and that was made of yams and Achu bananas. These two are pounded together and basically forms a like a bowl of mashed potatoes. It’s super mashed. I mean, you don’t even have to chew it. You just. Swallow it. Then they make a soup. It’s again for that palm oil based soup. Sometimes it’ll have some cow skin for the meat, but they eat that probably five times a week. They love that village.

[MCG]

Oh wow.

[Bro. Ben]

So yeah.

[MCG]

I can tell you like it. Look at the smile on your face too, but it’s.

[Bro. Ben]

It is good the only the only challenge is because that palm oil it pretty much stains everything and they pour it in this bowl that you’ve made out of your. It’s like mashed potatoes. You don’t really have a bowl cause they serve it in a banana. And so you have to eat the soup faster than you eat your bowl, or you’re in big trouble. And that’s you’ll have hot chew soup all over your clothes.

[MCG]

I could imagine.

[Jay]

So there’s obviously an adjustment when it comes to food, but can you tell us what sorts of adjustments did you find that you had to make? As someone presenting the gospel to what sounds like an acts 17 type cult. Culture where people. Have no fundamental understanding of God, of Christ, of sin, and of redemption through the shed blood of Christ. You know, as opposed to say in acts Chapter 2 culture where people you know you have an understanding of who God is. You may not know the savior, but you at least know who God is, who the creator is. So in an Act 17. Type culture where you have these traditional African beliefs. How, as a missionary, family and as a missionary personally, did you try to reach them with the gospel? And how did you engage with?

[Bro. Ben]

So Cameron is very interesting along those lines in that question because there is such a diversity. So I mentioned there are 40% Christian. And so when you begin talking with someone who may have gone to the Catholic Church or something like. That they do. Kind of have a background in those terms. The challenge with. A person who grew up in church is going to be OK. Salvation is not by works. It’s by faith in Christ. Alone, another big growing sector of the population there is Pentecostalism and I was kind of under the impression, OK, when I went to Cameroon, well, Pentecostals are. They’re kind of mixed up on the Holy Spirit, but at least they preached the gospel and until I got there and realized, wait, no, they’re not preaching the gospel either. Really, this message of works. Yes, Jesus died for you, but you’ve got to do this. That and the other. And so that was a whole nother thing there. And then, of course, there are Muslims, so many Muslims. And so when it comes to Muslims, you have to be very patient. You have to be very careful, make yourself available and just continue to share the gospel. Share the gospel, usually those. Muslims who come to know Christ are the ones who are asking you the questions actually, because again, they see the emptiness and the hollowness of their own religion. They will not come right out. They will certainly not come to church. They may visit you in your home or somewhere secret. And begin asking questions and then as you just pointed out, there are those people, particularly when we go out into the Bush, into the more remote areas, they don’t have any education in general, let alone religious education. And those situations you are beginning right in Genesis 11. I mean you have to start, right? With creation you have to explain who God is and right from the very very basics. And so Cameroon is kind of interesting. A lot of countries, there’s the general. Culture in the whole country, but in Cameroon is very diverse and so you have lots of different challenges. But again, the word of God has the answers and it’s a blessing.

[MCG]

Yeah, man. Sound like you have to divert the virus that you have to remove between the ones that the church and the one that are on church and not sharing the gospel the same way to the same people all the time. And I think that’s a flaw I see in the US mostly when we come to evangelism. We tend to go to everybody and present the gospel to them the same way not take into consideration. What their background is and whether Jesus is just a curse word to them or they grew up right church somehow. So yeah, I think that is pretty good.

[Bro. Ben]

Yes, the gospel, of course. Is the gospel. It doesn’t change, and the truths are the same, but you’re right. When I go to someone, particularly in Cameroon, because I don’t know what their background is, among the many that I just described, I like to ask a lot of questions, even if it is somebody with a Christian or a church background. I don’t just go through. Like the Romans Road or go through without making a lot of pauses and ask if I say something. Then maybe I’ll review by asking so according to this verse that we just read, you know what is sin or who is the sin you know and try to really make sure they understand what those. Truths are so again, the gospel is the same. I know some people will try to contextualize the gospel so much that it kind of loses its potency and its truth, even in some cases. You cannot, as you’ve already pointed out, you cannot use terms that people don’t understand. You cannot assume that. Maybe Bible doctrines that you’ve grown up with are understood by those that you’re even something as basic as you mentioned. Even something as basic as sin. I mean, that seems like a no brainer in the United States. But sadly, even in the United States, there are more and more people that don’t even understand what sin is. And so. I like to ask. A lot of questions when beginning a conversation and beginning into the God. This will because yeah, assuming things even after you’ve already talked about, it can end up coming to an end and realizing that while this person hasn’t even been following me. And that takes patience. You know, it doesn’t always happen. The first time. I know people ask me are people in Cameroon open to the? Gospel and I’ll say, well, people in Cameroon are very open because again that. Traditional Spiritism background. Anything religious, they are respectful of. I’m always called a man of God, you know, not that I ask for that, but that’s how they view me in that culture. And so if I am going to the market and I see, you know, a few Muslim guys sitting there, they’re not doing anything and I want to strike up a conversation with them. Just because I’m a quote man of God, I can sit down with those guys and start talking and they will give me complete liberty to talk about Jesus, the gospel, anything I want to talk about. And I can sit there and talk to those guys for an hour and they will not be unkind. They will not say that’s ridiculous, you know. No, they will sit there and listen. They will be as that person asked me, they will be open to what I have to say. They’ll be polite. But they’re not going to believe in Jesus. The first conversation you bring up. I mean, you’ve got to be very patient and loving. And just go through. That over and over again until they kind of get that desire or begin asking those questions. So that’s a little bit more than what you are asking, but I hope it gives a perspective of how things go in Cameroon anyway.

[MCG]

Well, yeah, definitely. So what are some of the needs? Do you think that a missionary would need to fill? To be more effective in Cameroon or what are some of the needs that you had that if they were filled would have made you more effective?

[Bro. Ben]

Well, I think the first thing is getting the language. I think that’s very, very important in our area. Even though we went to a year of French study, we ended up in a. Formerly British colonized area. And so in the cities we would speak in English and then out in the rural areas of what we call the Bush area. We would speak in pigeon. And all the different tribes out there kind of communicate with each other and pigeon. If you’re going to Cameroon today as a missionary, you are probably going to be in a French speaking area. And so learning the language is so critical in crossing any barrier that you face, you’ve got to learn the language well, I mean. Walking in the spirit covers a lot of territory and you know, I just always encourage our missionaries to be walking in the spirit because whether it. Friction and challenges. Crazy laws. I just was communicating with one of our missionaries and poor guys so frustrated because of some crazy laws that have been implemented and just trying to encourage him through that. Don’t make that a barrier or something, just, you know, just walk in the spirit. But I think demonstrating. And showing the love of Christ is very, very important, Jesus said by this shall all men know that you are my disciples. If you have love one to another and so that is critical, there are lots of religious choices in Cameroon. What’s the difference? Hopefully they see the love of Christ among genuine believers. And so those are kind of random things. But I think all those are really key.

[Jay]

You know, oftentimes missionaries are described as the rescuer that is being let down into a ditch or over the Cliff via a rope and being lowered down to go rescue an injured person or an injured, you know, lamb or something and down. There, and the person holding the rope was the church, right? I’ve heard that analogy used to describe the relationship between churches and missionaries and the lost many times, in your opinion, brother Ben, what are some of the things that are either happening in the church in? The US or. What are some of the things that the churches in the US are doing that make your job? On the mission field, more difficult.

[Bro. Ben]

OK. I thought that was going to what they do. And then all of a sudden it came out the opposite of what?

[Jay]

Right.

[Bro. Ben]

I expected because. They come out there. Right. I am very passionate about this question. It’s so much so that I’ve actually written a book called Missionary Partnership and on the back of the book it actually has that illustration of Andrew Fuller and William Carey describing how they were going into, you know, this new mission field and that exact analogy. And I am very passionate about. Encouraging. You know, with our Mission board, we have more than 4000 local churches and supporters of our 275 missionaries around the world. And if there’s one thing I can do in this new world, I want to encourage local churches to really understand that it’s not enough to be missions minded. And I’m thankful independent Baptists are probably more missions minded than just about any group out there for my research, and they’re giving and so forth. But to actually be missionary minded as. Well, not just give money to a program, but to really partner with missionaries to know them, to know what’s going on in their families, in their lives and their ministries. And again, like I said, my book outlines a bunch of things pretty much from the Epistle of Philippians. Paul is writing what I call an inspired prayer letter to his supporting church in Philippi, and he describes what an amazing partnership that church has been to him in several areas. So again, I’m sure there are many ways that churches can disappoint or frustrate their missionaries, but I like to encourage the positive aspects. I like to encourage local churches to pray fervently and effectively. That means to know what the needs are, to pray for them. Of course giving. But also communicating, sending people out there, what I call the epaphroditus is, as Paul mentioned, Aphrodites and Philippians. I call him Mr. That aphrodites apparently was not a preacher the way Paul describes. Him as a. Fellow worker in the ministry and one that ministered to all of his needs. So I don’t know that he was necessarily a bombastic preacher, but he helped the ministry and he literally, as Paul says, Minister to all of our needs, I mean. What a logistics guy. He must have been. And so all those positive things that churches can think through helping missionaries when they come back on furloughs and being a partner with them there, whether it be, you know, that encouragement or that adjustment or whether it be physical things like finding a house and finding a vehicle and those kind of things. So yes, I’m sure there are. Ways that churches have. Then a frustration. But really, I think all churches want to be a blessing and a partnership, and I would really highlight some of those things, be missionary minded, not just missions minded, but really focus on being partners with the missionaries on the field.

[MCG]

How do a church move in that direction? I’ve never really heard. It succinctly like the way you just phrase it. So how does the church move from all we support ecomotive missionaries to become missionary minded as you just described?

[Bro. Ben]

So as I describe in the book. It’s not going to happen overnight, especially when a church, you know, maybe a pastor really becomes aware of this and they’re like, you know what we really need to be. More missionary minded. But you know, we’ve got 60 missionaries and it’s gonna take time. For that church. To get to the. Now, if you’re just starting. That might be a little bit easier if their church is just planting or just starting a missions program. I would recommend historically independent Baptist support missionaries, for you know, just under, you know, maybe around 80 or $90.00 a month on average. I would really encourage churches rather than take on, you know, 5 or 10 missionaries at the beginning. Just take on a couple, a couple missionaries. That you get to know really. Well, maybe take them on for five or 10% of their support rather. Then you know 80 or $90.00 take them on for a significant chunk of their support and you know the Bible says Jesus himself said where your treasure is. There will your heart be also. And so you know, if a church is like, yeah, we support more than 100 missionaries. Well, as a missionary, that doesn’t necessarily thrill me because what they just communicated to me is they literally don’t even know. How many missionaries? Support just a number out there somewhere. They don’t even know, but if the church says yeah, we support 5 missionaries, you know, and they start naming them all off and telling me where they are and the names of their kids.

[Jay]

Right.

[Bro. Ben]

And the challenge. I’m like, wow, this. Church really has a part. Worship with these missionaries, so the long or the short answer to your question is it’s going to take time, but the pastor, if he’s passionate about this, can educate his people and the difference between maybe how churches typically do it and what we wanna do. We wanna be partners, missionaries or not, just people, employees that work for us. Missionaries are sent out of our church or missionaries are partners with our church. And we want them to know that and I think overtime as the church really focuses on reading through those prayer letters and communicating when. They can. They will definitely develop strong partnerships and that is huge. That is invaluable. To the church. And it’s invaluable to the missionary as well.

[MCG]

I can’t tell you how many discussions I’ve had where we discuss whether or not it’s the best way is to, as you say, take on a handful and even support them full time. Or take on 2-3 hundred at $50.00 per month and you know I’ve never really come to a conclusion. Why say which one is best, but it’s great hearing from you what you think you know. I’m leaning towards what you’re saying because it seems more effective if you can take on a family and say, hey, we’re going to support you. Even at 50% or whatever percentage it is rather than the $50.00 per month or whatever it may be. But yeah, I think that’s great.

[Bro. Ben]

There definitely needs to be a balance there, and each church is going to be a little different. But yeah, the average independent Baptist from my research has close to 60 supporting church. It’s it’s very difficult for a missionary to have a strong partnership with 60 churches and it’s very difficult for a church that has so many missionaries that they don’t even know their names or where they’re at. So again, I kind of give an outline of my opinion in my book, but the bottom line is. Whatever your church. Can do. To find that balance, to develop genuine partnership, that’s what I recommend. That is where it’s going to be helpful.

[MCG]

Name and tell us the name of your book again and. Where can we find it?

[Bro. Ben]

The book is called Missionary Partnership. It’s only available on Amazon, got a few books on there, but missionary partnership by Ben David Sinclair is the author on there and yeah.

[MCG]

Great. All right.

[Bro. Ben]

Thanks for that free plug.

[MCG]

Alright, you’re listening to the Removing Virus podcast. We’re sitting down with Brother Brand, missionary to the common room, and now presently the executive director of Baptist World Mission. We’ll be right.

[Jay]

Hey, thanks so much for listening to the Removing Barriers podcast. Did you know that you could find us on Twitter, Gab, Parlor, Facebook and Reddit, go to removingbarriers.net/contact and like and follow us on social media, removing barriers, a clear view of the cross?

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[MCG]

Ok brother Ben. In October of 2018, Charles Wesco was killed within two weeks of moving to the Cameroon with his wife and eight kids. Could you tell us a little bit more about that situation?

[Bro. Ben]

So we had a wonderful privilege when we first moved to Cameroon, we had some team members, some coworkers, they were also from Indiana. And we had a wonderful opportunity to labor together with them the first seven years in Cameroon and the Lord used that team mightily. As I said. To see churches planted and it was wonderful. But then they came back to the States and we were kind of plugging along there. We had just started a Bible college and we were trying to reach out into some of those other chief cities that I mentioned earlier. And so we. Just finally came to the place where we begin to beg the Lord for more Co laborers. And the Lord was working in the West Coast hearts. God called him even as a he was an assistant pastor and well established church, and things seemed to be going well in the ministry there. But God just surprisingly called him to Africa, at least surprising to some people. And so he did a survey trip in East Africa he visited. He went to South Africa and then he also visited West Africa, ended up in our home there in camera. And of course, we shared and they saw with their own eyes, many of the needs in Cameroon and the Lord Knit our hearts together during their survey trip. And so they felt the Lord’s leading and call back to Cameroon. They returned to the US, they started deputation and during their two years of deputation. That’s when this civil war started and began to escalate. And so we started surveying other regions in Cameroon. Our burden was the whole country. And so that would have not really wouldn’t have been out of our mission or goals to move to another region of Cameroon, but we just after. Praying and seeking the Lord, getting counsel, doing these survey trips, we just really felt strongly that the Lord wanted us to remain where we were, particularly at the church plant in the town of Cumbo, a new one that we were working on each week. And so of course, we kept the West goes up. Updated and they were finishing up deputation. They’re getting counsel. They’re seeking the Lord. OK. Do we want to go into the situation? It seems to be only between the separatists and the military. The rest of the 5 million people in that area. You know you. Just keep your head down and don’t get political and you’ll be OK and. That was what? Was actually. Going on each week, you would make sure you would call ahead before you go anywhere that there wasn’t any danger in. And you know, we just kind of claim that verse harmless as doves and wise as serpents. And that was kind of we just prayed for that wisdom every day that we needed it. And so as. You rightly pointed out they arrived in October. Of 2018, after much prayer and confirmation that God wanted us to be there, preaching the gospel, and it was very, very surprising, it was not at all like anything that had happened before. We were simply driving to town one day, brother Charles was sitting next to me. And Charles Junior was behind me and Stephanie Wesco was sitting behind her husband and we were attacked. We were halfway to town. Our vehicle was attacked and a couple of shotgun blasts and Charles Wesco was mortally wounded. By the time we got him to the hospital, he was shortly thereafter. Declared dead and we were in absolute shock because we were convinced that we were in the center of God’s will. You know, God, why? Why would this happen? Why is it that nobody else in the vehicle even got a scratch with all the flying glass and the bullets? You know, they were. Not just a single bullet projectiles that were blast type bullets, and so you know the babies that were headed my direction embedded in the window and did not even come through Stephanie’s window did not even break, even though glass on both sides of the vehicle. The windows on both sides were breaking and the blast that. Struck brother Charles went through the vehicle and into the seat behind Charles Junior, where he was seat belted, but none of the. None of the babies touched him. It’s like they left holes in the seat where he was sitting, but that nothing touched him. It was a supernatural activity and so we were wondering, OK God, you were clearly there. You protected us. Why did Charles Wesco die? And we, of course, went through all those questions. And we came back to the states. We escorted Stephanie and her family back to the states, and we began to ask the Lord, what are we supposed to do now? I mean. We we know we were in your will and we prayed for coworkers and we thought you answered our prayer. But we did not realize that God has his own way of answering prayer, and his ways are far above our ways. And so as. We were praying for, you know, one coworker to work with us. God had a much, much bigger plan. And so during 2019, I had the wonderful privilege of sharing brother Charles Wesco’s testimony and the Wesco family. What God did? And and how he’s commanded us to go into all the world and preach the gospel despite the challenges. And the barriers, as the podcast points out, that we’re to be faithful and obedient to that. And God used that in a mighty way. There were more than 20 people who surrendered their lives to go to Cameroon as missionaries. And scores of people across the country yielding their lives to missions in general. And so again, that is not what we were praying for. We were just praying for one Co laborer, one family, and God did exceedingly abundantly. Above all that we could ask our. Think and he is still using that testimony to lead people to Christ surrender to missions and expose people. As I mentioned, the Sanderlings who are kind of the first fruits who are headed to Cameroon very soon to keep people aware of what’s going on in Cameroon and the needs there and so. We thank God I know that sounds like a strange thing to say about your friend getting shot and killed, but we thank God that he is in control. We thank God that his ways are not our ways and that he knows what he’s doing and we can. Trust him for that.

[MCG]

You know, the Bible says in Romans 828, and we know that all things work together for good. To them that love God, to them, who will call according to his purpose, you know, and a lot of times we hear that first and we kind of internalize the verse and say whatever is happening is going to happen for my good. And I hear the preacher once explained that the first never said it was for your good, and that’s very, very important for us to realize. It’s not for your good. And then he. Cross referenced that with a verse I think is it in Philippians. I’m not remembering their reference off the top of my head here where Paul said that the things that happened to me happened for the good of the gospel and it seems here that will you just explain what exactly that the Lord took one. So you could send 20 or 30, so it’s for the good of the gospel. And that’s so great. How do you? Express this though to the parent, the grandparent who was selling off their daughter or their son and their grandkids to someplace like Cameroon, where as you. Said there’s an active civil war today still going on.

[Bro. Ben]

Yeah, that is a great question and it’s one that we. You have to again go back to the scriptures. I cannot, I cannot say, to a young person in a Christian School Chapel or in a church missions conference. I cannot say to a family this is gonna be really good for you and you should do this according to me, in my opinion, I cannot try to convince people. With statistics and needs to go to Cameron as I’ve got to go back to the scriptures where Jesus said. Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature where he said go and make disciples of all nations, teaching them, baptizing them. And lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. That’s where I have to keep going back to God said, go into all the world. He did not promise. That we would come back. He promised that he. Would be with. Us even to the end of the world. And so again, I can’t preach my opinion. I can’t preach statistics and emotional. Please, I’ve just gotta preach the Bible. And there are some places in the world we have to go just because he said go and Cameron is not. The most dangerous place in the world, but there are dangerous places out there and. I’m not shy to tell people that, you know, we need to be willing to go to Cameroon and we need to be willing to go to. You know Baghdad, Iraq, where a missionary was recently martyred as well. Not because, you know, it’s easy or because it’s fun, but because God said go. And so that’s what we gotta keep emphasizing.

[MCG]

Our brother Ben, we gotta go on a little bit of a fun section to find out some of your favorite. You can treat it as rapid fire or you can explain as much as you want.

[Bro. Ben]

OK.

[MCG]

All right, tell us what is your favorite scripture verse?

[Bro. Ben]

I love John 316 and has the whole gospel and good news wrapped up in one verse.

[Jay]

What is your favorite biblical historical account?

[Bro. Ben]

Wow. Well, of course I. Love the life of Christ. I would have to start there, but. From a human perspective, I really love the story of Joseph. That one always amazes me. It’s funny. Most authors will write with the revenge plot, but to come to the end of the story and find a forgiveness plot that is really amazing. So I love the life of Joseph.

[MCG]

What would you say is the most convicting scripted passage to you?

[Bro. Ben]

I guess it depends on the date. Depends on what I’m facing. That is the really exciting thing about the Bible, isn’t it? That you can read the Bible over and over again. And and maybe a passage that didn’t really even affect you that much based on the circumstances or the questions that you may be facing this time through become very convicting or very encouraging.

[Jay]

So true.

[Bro. Ben]

So yeah, that one definitely would change from time to time.

[MCG]

Oh great.

[Jay]

This one might be a little bit easier. What about the most comforting scripture verse for you?

[Bro. Ben]

Well, again, I think it depends on the situation, but when you asked that the first thing that came to mind last year, my father passed away and. You know, I was trying to be, you know, don’t cry too much for the kids and, you know, all this kind of stuff. And I was really blessed by the Sermon on the Mount Matthew 54, where Jesus said, blessed are they that mourn, for they shall be comforted, and that versus never really stood. Out to me until this situation that it’s OK to mourn. It’s actually biblical. There’s a promise of blessing and comfort to those who mourn, and so that really helped me through that. So again, it depends on what I’m going through. I really love that verse. Philippians 4-6 and seven have been. Tremendous comforts. My wife and I I mentioned we have four children, but our first born was born with a rare genetic disorder and had a lot of health problems, was in the NICU for some months, and those versus Philippians 4-6 and seven were tremendous. It’s comfort to us to just take everything to the Lord in prayer every day and claim his peace. That was a blessing as well.

[MCG]

What would you say is your favorite hymn of the faith?

[Bro. Ben]

Ohh sorry, this isn’t very rapid fire. I tell my wife when she asks her favorite questions that I like variety, so the same with hymns. I know I’ve told people favorite hymns before, but so many are coming to mind right now that I can’t really narrow it down. I would say my favorite line from him is our Maker, Defender, Redeemer, and friend. That line of that hymn. Overwhelms me sometimes that he could be my maker, defender, Redeemer and friend.

[MCG]

If that, and can it be? Which one is that one?

[Bro. Ben]

Although I do love John Wesley as our Charles Wesley as well. Charles Wesley is probably my favorite him writer, but I’m not sure that. Which him that came from off the top of my head now.

[MCG]

Yeah, we’ll find it.

[Bro. Ben]

Alright Google search.

[MCG]

Our who’s your favorite giant of the fate from the Bible?

[Bro. Ben]

Ah, I think that kind of changes. Each time I read through the Bible as well. I’m amazed by Daniel’s testimony. And I was sharing his testimony with someone today, another believer. We were talking through some stuff, some things. But the apostle Paul, as a missionary, I think I probably just keep going back to him time and again for. And wisdom and direction when it comes to missionary service, how the apostle Paul.

[Jay]

Now I think I did find the him. I think it’s O worship. The king looks like it’s verse 4 where it says frail children of dust and feeble as frail.

[Bro. Ben]

There you go.

[Jay]

And you do we trust nor find you to fail your mercies. How tender, how firm to the end our Maker, Defender, Redeemer, and friend.

[Bro. Ben]

Yeah, that’s powerful.

[Jay]

And this is incredible.

[MCG]

And then. What would you say is the biggest barriers preventing the people of the Cameroon from receiving the gospel?

[Bro. Ben]

I would say. That religion, or as Paul mentioned, to the people in Athens, their superstitions have prevented them from understanding and accepting the simple, clear, wonderful message of the gospel that Jesus and Jesus alone saves. But the people of Cameroon are very superstitious, very religious, and that has become a very challenging barrier. Thankfully, with love and patience, the light of the gospel does shine through and we rejoice in the many, many Cameroonians who have come to see the difference between religion and faith in Jesus Christ. And that is a wonderful day.

[Jay]

Now rather, Ben, could you share with our audience and with us how those barriers can be removed? Like, let’s pretend like. Either we or. Perhaps someone in the audience would be like the Cameroonian that you would actually witness to. How would you talk to them about Christ and how would you share the gospel with them? Take us along. And share the gospel with. Us in that way, please.

[Bro. Ben]

So as I mentioned earlier, there’s a great variety of understanding in people, groups in Cameroon. Sometimes when I come to a person, I’ll be able to tell a lot about their background, maybe by their dress, I will be able to tell what tribe they’re from or you know they’re wearing Muslim robes. Or they’re wearing, you know, traditional African apparel from a particular tribe that would give me a big heads up. But as I mentioned earlier as well, if I’m going into a conversation, I don’t have a lot of leads, I’m gonna ask a lot of questions. I love how the Lord can give wisdom. Take something as simple like the woman at the well and start a conversation about water. I mean, it doesn’t get any more basic than water and begin a conversation toward the gospel. So I’m always praying for wisdom. Lord, help me to, you know, start conversations today that would lead to the gospel. And so always looking for those opportunities right now, of course, there’s just a lot of conversation going on about the civil war. And so it’s quite easy to get in any conversation that’s going to come up and then begin to direct people to things like. You know, asking probing questions, you know, do you know about your sin? Do you understand that you have sin? Or if they’re a religious person, for example, do you know for sure that all of your sins are forgiven and that you’re going to spend eternity with God, that you know, some probing type question to kind of find out where they’re at? If they say you know what’s sin, if they say who’s God, then obviously you have a lot of teaching to do. But typically in the city, which is where our ministry has been, people are pretty familiar with religious terms and so. So I like to emphasize the difference between the bad news and the good news. If they’re willing to talk, I’ll even make something like that. I’ll say, hey, do you mind if I share some good news with you or? Them you know, it takes some time if they’re willing. If they’re not doing anything, then I’ll start with the bad news. I’ll say, look, you know, if I’m going to share some good news, that means there’s some bad news. And let me start with that and get that out of the way so we can get to the good, you know, something along those lines depending on the situation. And so I’ll start with the bad news of sin. I’ll go to the bad news of the consequence and the punishment for sin, making sure they understand that oftentimes I will show them from the scriptures that we’re all sinners. The wages of sin is death, and then there’s a key question that I like to ask, and that is. So according to this verse, cause you know, usually we’ve read it together or they’ve read it according to this verse, where are you? Going to live forever or where will you live when your body dies and that kind of thing again? There’s a lot. Lot to work. Through there, as far as questions and making sure they understand those things. But I found that I can really make a distinction between people who are just being polite and listening to me, and people who are genuinely looking for answers because Cameronians are very polite people. That’s a whole nother thing. I could explain sometimes, but they will just listen to you and not agree just because they’re polite. But when you ask them that question. According to this verse, not according to your feelings or what I’m telling you or what the church says according to God. ‘S word, the Bible. It says here that you’re a Sinner and you’re going to hell forever. You know, if they’re willing to admit at that point, you know what, I’ve gone to church my whole life, or I’ve tried to be a good person. But according to the Bible. I’m a Sinner and I deserve death and hell, for if they are willing to respond in that way. Usually people will. Laugh almost more than half of the time you ask. They’ll chuckle because it’s so uncomfortable. They don’t really know how to respond. They’ll just kind of laugh it off and hope that you’ll move on to something a little bit more comfortable. And if they laugh or they, you know, I’ll just give them a gospel track and say, hey, look, this gospel track gives you the answer. If you have any questions, my phone number’s on there. But if they’re willing to look at me and say. According to God’s word, I’m a Sinner and I deserve death in hell. While it is so easy at that point to go to the good news. I mean, let me take you to the Bible and show you what the Bible also says about how you can avoid this, how you can be saved, what you can do about this sin problem. And that has been a wonderful, wonderful way of getting to the. Good news that Jesus loves them, that he paid the price. For them, and again, if they will. Repent and turn to him. They can be saved and that is a very common what usually usually it takes me at least an hour to go through what I just summarized there quickly and again, it totally depends on the person’s background and understanding, but I don’t usually get through the gospel in less than an hour. Another thing that has been extremely helpful in Cameroon. Is and it usually begins with that motivation of just being religious. You know, they’re used to growing up and putting the charms and the things from the witch doctor for protection around their house or their children and that kind of thing. And so a lot of times they want a Bible in their house to, you know, protect them from evil spirit. There, it’s so people will come to me all the time. We offer free Bibles. Ohh pastor, can I have a Bible? And I’ll say yes, I will be happy to. Give you a Bible for free, but you need to fill out this little Bible study. And so basically I’ve made a little questionnaire Bible study on the books of John and Romans. And then I give them a little John and Roman scripture portion. And so they read a chapter, John chapter one. It has a question. Who is the word or whatever, you know, whatever the question is. So each chapter they read the chapter, they have one question, read the chapter one question. And by the time you get through Romans, so many of the questions have to do with how can somebody be saying how can somebody have everlasting life. How can you know? There’s so many gospel related questions in John and Romans that typically by the end we have a couple bonus questions and one of the bonus questions is if you. We’re standing at the gate of Heaven right now, and you were asked why should you be allowed to enter here? What would you say that usually reveals what people are trusting in? Usually if you can get somebody to read through John and Romans. So many times, there’s so much conviction. There’s so much gospel truth in those two books that they come back with this little thing filled out wanting a free Bible. And they are so right to believe in the Lord Jesus, because they’ve seen it for themselves, you know, and it’s walked progressively through the. Life of Christ. The doctrines and Romans it’s so clear, and so we have seen many, many people trust Christ simply because they wanted a free Bible. We give them to John and Romans. We give them this script. For Bible study and they come back and they believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. And of course we have other discipleship materials. But I would say those are two key ways. First, asking lots of questions, bad news, good news. And then those scripture portions. And again, that’s not going to work in the United States. That’s not going to work in a lot of pain. If people are not just, you know, they can go buy it with the dollar store, you know they’re not in. But in Cameroon, that is definitely a very positive way to break that barrier. Others, whether they be barriers or superstition or barriers of ignorance getting the scripture into their hands. It’s powerful. The mortal God is powerful.

[MCG]

Well, Bro. Ben Sinclair. It was a pleasure. Thank you for joining us on the Removing Barriers podcast.

[Bro. Ben]

Thank you very much. God bless you.

[Jay]

Hi, this is Jay MCG and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to removingbarriers.net and subscribing to receive all things removing barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at removing barriers.net/donate removing barriers. A clear view of the cross.

[MCG]

Thank you for listening. To get ahold of us, to support this podcast, or to learn more about removing barriers. Go to removingbarriers.net. This has been the removing barriers podcast. We attempted to remove barriers so that we all can have a clear view of the cross.