Episode 113

Kanye West, who now goes by “Ye,” is no stranger to controversy. He is certainly an anomaly in the realm of celebrity in that he does not think along mainstream lines, and he has paid a hefty price to speak what he believes to be true. He recently wore a shirt with “White Lives Matter” at the Paris Fashion Show and the backlash was both swift and strong. What was his intent in wearing such a controversial piece? Did he get his message across? How should Christians respond and think about the slogan? This episode of the Removing Barriers podcast explores these questions and more.

And for me to go out and just state an obvious and empathetic statement in the middle of the most liberal central, like, to go that was like TNM and Square or something like with Candace Owens. And we both wore the shirt at the same time. We got some Jesus soldiers out out here, and people say they’re willing to die for it, but we live for it.

Thank you for tuning in to the Removing Barriers podcast. I’m Jay. And I’m MCG. And we’re attempting to remove barriers so we can all have a clear view of the cross.

This is episode 113 of the Removing Barriers podcast, and in this episode, we will be discussing Kanye West and the White Lives Matter T shirt he wore at the Paris Fashion Week with Candace Owens.

Hi, this is Jay MCG, and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to Removing barriers.net and subscribing to receive all things Removing Barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at Removing Barriers.net/donate. Removing Barriers, a clear view of the Cross.

All right, Jay, let’s get into it. Do you have a little bit of a background of the incident and the backlash, the response to Kanye and Candace Owens walking the Parish runway on the Parish Fashion Week, wearing hoodies and T shirts with the message White Life Matter on the back? That’s all I can really say about the background. They wore it at the Paris Fashion Show Week, and they weren’t the only ones wearing it. Apparently there were several others wearing that shirt. But because he is Kanye West, now, he goes by Yay because he’s such an international celebrity. Candice Owens, of course, such a controversial big name. They were the ones that got the spotlight for wearing that shirt. As a result of them wearing the shirt, it’s obviously a provocative shirt. The backlash was swift. The backlash was instant. There was even a girl who went so far as to say that she was traumatized having to see that shirt and to read what was on it. And so all of the backlash stemmed from that. And so every name in the book, of course, was thrown at them. Everyone reacted predictably. They were called white supremacists. They were called all of these different names. They were largely condemned in the media. And not too long after that, he made several other comments that resulted in him being not just deplatformed goodness, even his bank dropped him and he lost a deal with Adidas. And so all of these things were happening in rapid succession. And so it’s hard to figure out how much of this happened as a result of the White Lives Matter shirt. Or was it the antisemitic comments that he made subsequently? But that’s basically the background of the entire situation and the response to it. Yeah. And for what’s his word. I’ll also note that both Candace Owens and Kanye or Yay West are black. And for some reason, this message, White Lives Matter, was I guess you could say this bold message was somehow taken. And as you said, people are saying they’re hurt by this and it shouldn’t happen. Right?

I guess the obvious question here is white lives matter. Is it true? Do white lives matter? That’s a hard question to answer because Black Lives Matter, which is what White Lives Matter is a response to or is responding to, black Lives Matter doesn’t just mean what it says. It’s the name of an organization. It is a slogan. It is a protest against perceived over representation of police brutality against black men. That slogan means many different things. And that’s something that the left does very well. They command the language and they could make the words mean whatever they want to. So even if you wanted to say something very specific, you would have to have a laundry list of qualifiers before you could even get to what you’re trying to say because the words mean so many different things. So if we say White Lives Matter, they can easily respond and say, well, duh, just because we say Black Lives Matter, we’re not saying White lives don’t matter. We’re just saying fill in the blank laundry list of whatever Black Lives Matter means. So on its face patently, it’s true that white lives do matter. But again, because Black Lives Matter means so many different things, you’d have to actually take the time to explain yourself as to why white lives matter. I see what you’re saying, but for me, I would say certainly white lives do matter.

And I think actually it’s a bit absurd to ask the question whether or not a certain people group lives matter. Of course they do. But I’ll hacking back to what you said. If you go back in history and the history of this country in particular, there was a time in history, in world history when the Jews life did not matter. When it comes to those who orchestrate the Holocaust, there was a time in history when black lives did not matter to the slave owners and slavery, but this is what people always leave out. There was also a time in history when white lives did not matter as well. I guess my point is here, if you look back at the history of slavery, there has been a time in history when basically all people group have been in some sort of slavery. And we discuss this in episode 91 and 92 where we talk about slavery, the Bible and Christians. So if you have not listened to those episodes, I will encourage you to listen to those episodes with Missionary Marco. But the point I’m trying to put here, one, it’s absurd that we are discussing whether or not a certain people group lives matter. And two, I don’t think history is on the side of Black Lives Matter, because while I understand that Black Lives Matter is a political statement and it means everything under the sun of black oppression, I think Black Lives Matter actually now has morphed into us. Terry Cruz said into black lives better. But every people group you can think about have been persecuted in some form or other in history. So I think it should be absurd for us to be saying, hey, do White Lives Matter? Of course it does. Do black lives matter? Of course, I think is a mute point. But they have been well, I guess they didn’t accuse them of racism because both Kanye and Candice are black. But do you think they did accuse them of they call them white supremacists, which is being labeled a racist. Okay, well, they do call some black people they say black people aid in white supremacist, but I didn’t see the news where they actually say, hey, they’re racist.

But is it racist to say White lives matter? It depends on who you ask. If you ask the ladies on The View, yes, they would say so. If you ask any woke person, they would say, yes, it is racist to say that White lives matter. Those of us that are saying however, I don’t mean to be derogatory or digging at anyone when I say that, but those of us that are saying that haven’t bought into woke ideology, of course realize that it’s not racist to say that White lives matter. We realize that you can’t erase the experience, the oppression, the pain of a group of people by inflicting oppression and pain on another group of people. So on its face, patently, of course, it is not racist to say that White Lives Matter, because they do. Kanye west, he goes by Yay now, was shocked by the backlash that he got. And I don’t know if that’s a testament to how oblivious he is to how regular people think or if he’s kind of sheltered from all of this sort of thing, although I would argue that he’s not because he’s receiving the brunt of the consequences of having such controversial ideas. But anyway, he was surprised by the backlash he got because his father, who was a black panther, actually called him about the shirt. And they both had a good laugh about it because his father thought it was just so funny and so ironic and silly that a black man would have to wear that shirt in order to say something that is so patently obvious, which is exactly what his father said to him.

But here’s why. If a white person had worn that shirt, let’s pick any famous white person who, by the way, cannot come out publicly well, they can, but most likely will not come out publicly and say white Life Matter. Or we’re a teacher saying White life matter. I don’t think I’m trying to think of any white male celebrity that will actually come out and wear a shirt like that. Let’s say these conservatives. The only one I can think of is probably Stephen Crowder. I can’t think of anyone else. Probably Tim pool. I don’t think he would do it, because you can’t. I have spoken to some white friends that I have, and one of them said to me that in reference to George Floyd, because I personally don’t think George Floyd was racially motivated. I don’t think the police officer was racially profiling George Floyd. And he said to me that you can say that, but I can’t because he’s white and black according to how society will put us in a group. But my thing is, if it’s racist to say that white lives Matter, it is also racist to say Black Lives Matter. But to your point, we do live in a country where everything is racist, just like you mentioned the ladies on The View, everything that they can’t explain, at least in my opinion, is racist. Do you remember the scene in the movie The Incredibles when Syndrome said to Mr. Incredible that he’s going to sell all his invention to everybody and everybody will be super? And he said, when everyone is super, no one will be.

And when I’m old and I’ve had my fun, I’ll sell my invention so that everyone can be superheroes, everyone can be super, and when everyone super, no one will be.

It’s the same thing we have here. When everything is racist, nothing is racist, of course, because come on. That’s the problem with these movements, the Black Lives Matter movement and all sort of movements that are on the left, they trivialize and dilute words and actions that actually have significance. What I mean by that is, we’ll take the word racism, we’ll take the phrase white supremacist, we’ll take the word prejudice. Those are serious issues. Those are serious sins that actually need to be addressed and called out, mortified, both in the individual and publicly within a people group. But if everyone is racist, if everyone is white supremacist simply because we disagree or simply because you don’t believe like I do, well, then when the true racism comes out, not only will people be less likely to call it out, they are less likely to do anything about it. And that’s a serious problem. When we’re talking about, say, for example, discrimination, which is something that does happen, but not to the degree that everyone is saying that it does. When we trivialize it with all of these different movements that actually do a lot of work to trivialize it, it makes it so that nothing happens, nothing gets resolved. The actual issue doesn’t get addressed as a result of them diluting watering down the term, the phrase, the sin, whatever it is.

And this is why I say that when it comes to whether or not people were hurt by the prevalence of Black Lives Matter and that sort of thing. I would say it hurt every single person, every single ethnicity, every single nationality. It hurt everyone because of that, because of the fact that these things are being diluted. And if this continues for any amount of time, there’s going to come a time when the following generation will not be able to see and recognize racism or the sin of whatever, fill in the blank for what it is because it’s been mischaracterized and over and over attributed for so long. People are not going to be able to recognize racism when they see it. They’re not going to be able to recognize genuine racism or genuine prejudice or genuine thoughts of supremacy of any color when they see it. And that’s a problem, because then you end up repeating history. The sin never gets exposed. But we are already there. You talk about words that the left has changed its meaning. Well, how many words have they done that, too? Well, you can talk about rainbow. Yeah, the rainbow. Gay, gender, sex, gender, sex, inflation, inflation, racism, white supremacy. Trauma trump being traumatized by some victimhood. Victimhood. Yep. All these words, and not only that, they have made up new ones, like aggression. Microaggression is one this is one I hate, but this is one that I think they made up. Cisgendered. So if it’s racist to say white lives matter, if it is, as I said before, then it’s racist to say any life’s matter. It’s terrible on its face, too. When we consider these phrases, white lives matter, black lives matter, you’ve reduced a life to the color of the person’s skin. Everything about you is determined by how much melanin you have in your skin, which is precisely the definition of racism. Unfortunately, like I said, you’re right. We’re already there. We’re not even able to identify that as racism because of everything that I mentioned before.

But what do you think Yay or Kanye was trying to convey or say when he wore this? I guess it was a hoodie T shirt, whatever you want to call it, saying White lives Matter. He was very straightforward. He said it’s very simple. When they asked him this question, and it was the same answer when they asked him why did he wear it? What was he trying to say and why did he wear it? The answer was the same. He said, because they do. What did he mean by that? Was that the shirt said White lives matter, and he said, White lives do matter. That’s why I wore it. And that’s what I’m trying to say. He was very simple and straightforward about it, and he’s right on both accounts. But the problem, I think and I mentioned about his father laughing, thinking that it was funny, his father being a Black Panther who actually went through legitimate racism and prejudice and discrimination in this country. His father thought it was funny and talked to him about it, but I think what he was trying to convey was twofold he might not say it was, but I think it was. Not only was he trying to say the simple fact on its face that white lives do matter because they do, but he was also trying to push back on the Black Lives Matter slogan the Black Lives Matter idea. Not just the organization, but the slogan and the idea behind it and trying to lean into it. Because there are many instances in this country and in our national and public dialogue where you can’t say certain things, and so people are muzzled. You can’t really speak up about things. If your opinion is not mainstream, if your opinion is controversial, you’re immediately canceled. You’re immediately ostracized, marginalized, spoken, ill of the whole thing. And I think he’s trying to do the same thing Crowder is trying to do. Deliberately being controversial, deliberately being provoking, deliberately being what’s the word? I’m thinking of the word antagonistic, but deliberately saying and doing these things in order to open up the space for dialogue between people, because right now it’s just not there. People are walking on eggshells. They’re afraid to say things. And I think that’s also something that he’s trying to say or convey or point out. He did it in a very provocative way. And there’s an element of trolling there as well, because the media and all of the virtue signalers and all of those people, they reacted exactly the way you would expect them to react. So there’s an element of trolling there as well. So he wouldn’t say so, but I think that what he was trying to say was manifold. It was multifold.

Yeah, I agree with you on that, but I’m going to take it a little bit deeper or at least in a little bit different direction. I listened to Kanye or Ye, whatever you want to call himself at this point, interview with Tucker Carlson. I listened to him interviewed with Piers Morgan on Census, on Cotter, whatever that show name is. And I think what he was trying to say, especially in the interview with Tucker Carlson, is the absurdity of the cultural hegemony. And we have come to a point today in society where if you say certain things, it is compared or if you say certain things, or if you do certain things, or if certain things happen to you, it is compared to a standard. And what is that standard? The standard is this a white, male, heterosexual, cisgendered, able bodied, native born American. That person I just described is considered to be privileged. If you are a white male, you’re heterosexual, cisgendered, AVO bodied, native born American. In other words, I hate this term, but I read Net. You are considered to be privileged. Think of people like Dave Ramsay, Crowder and all these and anything outside of that has some sort of victimhood. And the further away you are from that standard, white male, heterosexual, sister, all those things is the level of victimhood you experience or the word they use is intersectionality. So if you’re black, female, transgender, name it, you are more victimized than if you are simply a white female or a black male. To me, this is totally, totally absurd. And I think the culture of hemp Germany actually has his root in Marxism and socialism. So I’m no expert in this, but I think Kanye was describing this cultural hegemony that he’s seen that the white man cannot speak. The white man cannot do this. The white man cannot do that, because and simply because of immutable characteristics of themselves, things that they cannot change and things that they did not choose. They didn’t choose to be male. They didn’t choose to be white. I don’t think anyone has a choice and say, well, I wonder if I want to be able bodied or disabled. Unless, of course, you’re like some of these crazy people who are identifying as disabled. Yeah, but I’m saying these are characteristics that you’re talking about. Just a normal human being that happened to be born as white, but in society today, and unfairly. So the white man is being marginalized, and no one comes to their defense because, what, they’re white male? It’s ridiculous. It’s totally ridiculous. And in my opinion, that was traditionally what we define racism as. Is it not racism against white male when we say you are privileged and you are victimizing me just because of who you are? Because you can’t change that. When the black people in this country were being discriminated against, wasn’t just because they’re black. That was racism, but also what they claim. They claim that the white man has power. So the black man cannot be racist because the black man doesn’t have any power, but the white man has power.

Here’s how absurd this is. Oprah Winfrey had an interview, I think it was with, like, four white ladies. And this was a virtual interview because it was during the time of COVID and Oprah Winfrey was trying to explain to these white ladies why she, oprah is the Oppressed one in the room because she, as a black woman, do not have power. Let me ask this. What gives someone power in the United States? Money. Exactly. It’s not politics. It’s not your job or your influence society. It’s money. I guarantee you, if Oprah Winfrey and those four women walked into a hotel, the people that run that hotel wouldn’t even notice the other four ladies. They would lay out the red carpet for Oprah Winfrey, and no one else would exist at that particular moment. She would get all of the privilege and all of the that would be true. Wherever she would go with those four white women, she would get all of the privilege, all of the acknowledgement. Why? Because Oprah is a billionaire. Exactly. That’s where the power comes from. That’s where the privilege comes from. It’s not. And the left has done a magnificent job, but I’m not saying magnificent in the sense of praising them. I’m just saying they’ve done a very good job in convincing blacks and whites who are of the same economic strata that they are somehow enemies, and that their real enemies are not the elites, the richer people, as it were, that are propagating this divisive rhetoric. So you’ve got poor white people and poor black people who are scrounging the bottom of the barrel, living in the same neighborhoods, the same areas, probably segregated, who knows? But still in the same neighborhood, same areas that think that they’re enemies when they’re in the same boat, when they’re the same plight. Yeah, as I said, to me, the whole thing is absurd. I don’t think biblically, if you want to define racism through the Bible, which is basically hate, in my opinion, this has nothing to do with power. It all has to do with your heart condition. So a black person can be as racist as a white person, and a white person can be racist. Jews can be racist. Aging human beings can be racist and prejudiced against each other.

So this is where I think the conversation needs to shift, because if this were any ragtag celebrity when I say ragtag, I don’t mean that celebrities are ragtag. I just mean if this were any other celebrity, everything that’s happening is par for the course. Right? But Kanye West or Yay, I should say, professes to be a believer. He professes faith in Christ. He professes to be a Christian. So I think that in light of that, the entire conversation needs to shift and we need to look at whether or not it lines up biblically, because he’s done this in many interviews where he says that he’s fighting for God and he’s doing things for God and we’re on the Jesus team or whatever some of these terms that he uses. So now he’s invoking the name of the creator of the universe, and he’s bringing it down into these dirty politics that we have here in the United States. And his behavior will color how unsaved people view God, because they’re not going to go to the Scriptures to look to see who God truly is. They’re going to look around at other Christians and be like, oh, is that how that works? Okay, I don’t want any of that. Or, I do want that. That’s how unfortunately, that works. The scripture is clear about letting our good work shine before men so that it will be seen and that the name of the Lord will be glorified. So Kanye West professes to be a Christian. He was discipled by a solid Christian pastor. I say solid, and I don’t know the pastor personally, but in light of everything that I’ve seen at his website and heard some of the sermons that he’s preached, he sounds solid to me. I’m not saying that I would agree with every single thing that I’ve heard from the pastor, but he was discipled by that man, so he professes Christianity. And so now the question is, in light of the fact that Yay professes to be a Christian, was the decision to wear that shirt sensible? Was it right, was it good, was it pure? Did it achieve the biblical good that we ought to seek to be doing in this country as salt and light in this world here today?

So first let me say this. I personally do not believe Kanye or Ye West is a save man. I personally do believe he’s saved. I believe that he is lost and probably can say he’s seeking. But again, I don’t know Kanye personally, but I know he made his riches through rap music, I think. And he was married to Kim Kardashian for six years or something like that. I have four kids. I don’t see anything in Kanye West live that has changed to a point where I can say, I feel comfortable to say that he’s saved. I don’t think he’s saved. His music, as vile as they can be, are still out there for anyone to consume. And I’m thinking that if I truly got saved and I’m being discipled and being sanctified, one of the things that I probably will do is take down some of those ungodly music. And also, I remember when Kanye was going around saying he was saved, he was being flaunted in a bunch of churches to come and do sing and whatever the case may be. And there were absolutely no difference in his style of music and the way he does his Christian concerts compared to what he was doing otherwise. Yeah, and it’s an absolute shame that the churches open up their arms and received him without visible evidence of having repented and turned from his. So with that said, I don’t believe he said, but with that said, did he effectively communicate what he was trying to say? I personally say no. But here’s Kanye West on Tucker Carlson talking about why he did what he did.

The more and more I lean into God and work for God, the more wins. God is going to bestow on our team, on Jesus gang. And for me to go out and just state an obvious and empathetic statement in the middle of the most liberal central like to go that was like Tiananmen Square or something with Candace Owens, and we both wore the shirt at the same time. We got some Jesus soldiers out here and people say they’re willing to die for it, but we live for it. We’re living for the battle. And what’s the battle for life itself. Our children like Tiananmen Square, Yay West, Cannon, and staying there in front of the tank, which is international media.

Yeah. So that was Kanye or Yay West kind of explaining why he did it, but also to be fair to Candace Owens. Here’s what she has to say about the situation on the matter as well.

Well, I just want to say it was one of the only weeks that I missed doing your show. And the only reason I would miss doing your show, Tucker, is because I knew that there was a cultural moment that would be so significant as this was. I did it because Kanye called me and he said that he needed me to be there at the show, and he needed me to be a part of the show. And when he told me what he had in mind and wearing these T shirts, which, by the way, he told me the day of, I instantly understood what he was trying to do and what the artistic expression was, what it offered was a stunning commentary on the hypocrisy of the society that we live in for years. We were told that Black Lives Matter was not an exclusionary phrase. We were told that it’s just what we’re saying. We’re not trying to leave white people out, right? We’re just saying this because this is a moment that black Americans need to have in this country. They were totally fine when Asian Lives Matter became a slogan as well. Asians, by the way, are doing better in this country economically than white Americans. They’re more successful in education as well, and they’re more likely to get credit cards as just one example. And yet, despite all of that, it was okay to say Asian Lives Matter. We put on a T shirt to actually do something that was inclusive, to say, actually, white Americans, you are allowed to be a part of this too, because literally all lives matter. And in fact, no lives have been mattering. Black Americans are suffering as a result because of Black Lives Matter. We know that their neighborhoods have been rioted in inner city communities and the businesses are moving out of there. The result of Black Lives Matter has been white supremacy, assuming that black Americans were stupid and emotional and would loot and riot their own communities to fulfill a false narrative about policing. And so we got to say all of that by wearing one T shirt?

Yeah. So that was Candace Owens also explaining why she agreed to wear the shirt. And I must say, I agree with a lot of what Candace Owens just said in the clip we played, because I do believe that Black Lives Matter has hurt the black community more than it helped. And actually, I don’t even think it helped. The only persons I think it helped were the people who were directly involved in the Black Lives Matter global foundation network, or whatever they call themselves. I think they’re the one who benefited from the millions and millions of dollars that were donated to them. So was this clearly communicated? I think Candace did a much better job communicating why she wore it over Kanye. Because I personally find Kanye West or Ye West a little bit difficult to follow when he speaks because he doesn’t necessarily stay on topic in my opinion. He’s a true creative in that way. That’s not his forte like logically putting forth well I wouldn’t say logically but he does appear to be very smart, let me put it that way. He does appear to be very smart and much smarter than what the media would want to give to him. But I also find that he goes in a little bit of roundabout way to answer a question and give more hints to the answer rather than directly answer the question, at least in my opinion. I think Candace did a much better job in answering that question, at least saying why she did it.

He successfully grabbed the attention that was needed for his message to get the platform and reach the audience that it did. As I mentioned before, there was an element of trolling there because the media reacted and celebrities and people reacted so predictably. He said it clearly and succinctly white Lives Matter. That was very straightforward. But the message was drowned out by all of the outrage, by the double and triple meaning of Black Lives Matter and by the fact that the nation is absolutely in no condition to have any rational discussion about so called race relations in the country. Because of the hyper polarization, because of all of this cancel culture, all of that sort of thing that has taken place. So he successfully communicated it and how he said it but it’s kind of like water off a duck’s back because the reception wasn’t there. His message didn’t get through because it was drowned out by all of the things I’ve mentioned before. And that’s the problem with our political culture today because we figure hey black lives matter. What are we going to say? White lives matter and we’re going to be just shouting at each other and no one is going to change their mind. No one is really hearing each other. So shouldn’t we find probably a more effective way of communicating? Should we probably say hey this is not working, let’s try something else. That’s why and I tend to harp on just a little bit, but that’s why I appeal to Christians that we cannot solve this cultural issue or this political issue that we have by voting and politics and actually we don’t have a cultural or political issue. We have a spiritual issue that have manifested itself in their cultural issues and the political issues that we see today because again, whose mind did they change? Probably no one except the people that I’ve already agreed with them. I’m not saying they should not do it. They have a first amendment right and I think they were in France so hopefully France have some law for free speech so they had the right to do it. And I’m not saying they shouldn’t do it. But I’m not simply saying even if he was an effective communicator like Candace, because Candace, that’s what she does. She communicates and she’s an excellent communicator. She got her message across. I understand it fully. I had a little bit of a problem with Kanye, but at least understand exactly what he was saying and the multiple interviews I watched with him. But even if both of them were successful in the communication, I don’t think it necessarily changed anyone’s mind if that was the goal. I like what you said about how these problems cannot be addressed politically, not even culturally.

This is a spiritual problem. All of the cultural and political fruit that we see has spiritual roots. And so we need to change how we talk about these things, how we receive these things in order to address the issues. And I think the Bible has a lot to say about how we are to speak, how we are to present our ideas, our thoughts. Whatever communication that we’re trying to share, the Bible has a lot to say about it. Galatians 5:20 says now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variants, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revelings and such like of the witch. I tell you before, as I have told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. In that laundry list of sin, variance and emulations, envyings, all of these things describe communication, conflict, variances, the state or the fact of being in disagreement or conflict. Emulations, that means antagonistic, rivalry, just malicious sort of contention, strife, going back and forth. It’s like striving for superiority. If we are trying to have a conversation about these glaring problems in our society, in our people, in our churches, we can’t do it if we are partaking in emulations and strife and variants heresies things of that nature. And so as people of God, we have to put off those things and put on Christ. Put on how Christ speaks. Many times in Scripture we have the example of the Lord interacting with people who were contentious with Him. And he says one thing that completely undermines everything they’re trying to say. It was direct and it was true, but it didn’t have any of the elements of emulations or variants or contention or strife, any of that sort of thing. Take for example when everyone brought the woman caught in adultery to him and there’s like this mob and she had done something wrong and it was against their culture. And this is a huge thing. We have to deal with this. Hey, but what do you say, Jesus? And he just simply says, any of you that don’t have sin, throw the first stone and that’s it. It’s a very simple, very straightforward thing. But there was none of the things that Galatians Five describes as sin and the issue gets dealt with, he cuts to the quick. See, the Word of God has the power to do that. The Scriptures talk about how the Word of God divides the dividing asunder and watching the verse, down to marrow, down to the heart of the matter. And when we speak and I’m going to take all that and translate it to when we speak in the public square, speaking on this podcast, speaking with your neighbor, speaking with your co worker, or speaking with your schoolmate. We need to submit to God and obey Him in how we speak in order for these things to be fleshed out in a manner that results in genuine conversation, genuine exploration of these ideas, genuine pointing people to Christ so that we can have an environment where we can thrive as a nation blessed as a nation whose God is the Lord.

Ephesians, chapter four, verses 29 through 32. Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and evil speaking be put away from you with all malice and be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted forgiving one another, even as God, for Christ’s sake, hath forgiven you. Here. He’s talking to Christians. However, the word of God, the law of God, applies to everyone at all times, everywhere. This is how we should be speaking to each other as members of the same nation. The communication is corrupt if it’s true, but it’s not said in love. The communication is corrupt if it’s true, but it comes out with wrath and anger and clamor. And so I think that one of the things that perhaps people on the conservative side, and I do make the distinction between conservative and Christian on the conservative side do not do well is to present their ideas with truth and love. There’s almost this element of wanting to get back at the other side or perhaps wanting revenge for having been treated as conservatives have been by the left, by the far left in this country for so long. There’s this element of digging back and being just as provocative or being just as confrontational when the Scriptures clearly show that this is not how we are to speak and how to behave. That’s not to say that we should be doormats and not say anything and not point out hypocrisies and not contend for the faith. In fact, Jude Three says, beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you and to exhort you, that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Now here it’s talking specifically about the faith, but such is true for all of the things that result from living out the faith, how we speak to one another, how we vote, how we interact with one another. There are things that we should be earnestly contending for. So that’s not to say that we are doormats and that we do not speak up when we should be speaking up. But there is a way to do it in truth and love that glorifies God. We previously referenced the verse that commands us actually to let our good work shine before men so that they can see it and glorify our God in heaven. We should absolutely be doing that. If our words, if our speech or our actions make it so that people are blaspheming the Lord or they speak ill of the Lord, then that’s not a good thing. That’s not good communication. It’s not Godly, it’s not a good thing. And Christians should be very wary of partaking in that kind of speech. We had the previous I forget which episode it is, but we were talking about the difference between conservatism and Christianity. This is one of these areas. Our speech, that would certainly apply.

We might agree with Crowder Pool, Malice, Shapiro, Daily Wire, all these people who are on the conservative right, we might agree with a lot of what they say. But we also have to realize that a lot of what they say is deliberately provocative, deliberately antagonistic, deliberately egging the other side, not making an effort to understand where the other side is coming from in some cases. And Christians should just tread lightly and realize that we shouldn’t be speaking that way. Yeah, I fully agree. I would say that conservatives and Republicans tend to be more defensive than offensive. So they normally on the defense. And sometimes when you’re on the defense, you have to use a little bit more, at least match the nastiness of the offense. So I think that’s some of that what we are seeing from conservative commentators and stuff like that, that’s a trap. It really is. Because Second Timothy 2:15 says, study to show thyself approved unto God a workmen that need us not to be ashamed, rightly. Dividing the word of truth, but shun profane and vain babblings, for they will increase unto more Godliness. That certainly applies to how we respond. Yes, you’re being attacked, yes, you’re being maligned. But let’s take the example of our Savior, who and I should point out, none of us are sinless. None of us are in a position where we don’t deserve the malice that we have coming at us. The most we deserve, any of us deserve, is hell. Let’s take the example of our Savior, who was 100% sinless and 100% pure, not at fault. There’s no sin found in him, none at all. And yet when sinners accused him, even when it came to the point of him dying on the cross, he answered them not a word. We can take a leaf from our Savior’s book and have those opportunities to be Christlike in these situations where you’re being well, they’re throwing gay under the bus right now, but in those situations responding in a Christ like manner.

You’re listening to the Removing Barriers podcast. We are discussing Kanye or Yay and White lives matter. We’ll be right back.

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So do you think that white people were hurt by the prevalence of the Black Lives Matter slogan? And the movement and all of the other decentralized tendrils that flowed from that movement? In short, I would say I don’t know. What do you mean? I don’t know if they were hurt. I’ve never had a discussion with any of my and I hate putting people in groups like this, but I never had a discussion with any of my white friends and say, hey, the Black Life Matter movement hurts you or cause you to feel marginalized or anything of that sort. But however, Candace Owens, when she was on Tucker Carlson alluded to this and said that she had friends of folks that were coming up tanging her for giving them a voice, here is Candice again.

It’s just so interesting. I mean, if you’re triggered, as they say, by a shirt like that, no one who is mad about it ever seemed to ask like why if you said Malaysian Lives Matter or anybody, you would a normal person would say, well, of course all lives matter, but why does this make them so mad? It’s weird and dark. It makes them so mad because there is actually in this country a hatred toward white people. It is undeniable the worst thing that you can be in this country, far from what they’re telling you. I would say two things. First and foremost, a black child in the womb of its mother. That is the most unsafe place for a black child to be. The second thing is a white straight male, right? Because they perceive that as being too normal, right? It’s too normal for you to be a white straight male. You need to make yourself somehow problematized by saying that you’re trans, that you’re suffering, that you’re gay, that you’re Hispanic, that you have a biracial mother, something people are dying to say that they’re anything but being white. And again, that is the commentary that we offer. By wearing these shirts, you actually cannot right now, today on TikTok, you cannot use the hashtag White Lives Matter because they say that it inspires hatred. And in fact, banning the hashtag White Lives Matter is what inspires hatred. The saddest part of this, Tucker, which I want to add, is that after wearing the shirt and getting back here down in Tennessee, I went to a farmers market, and I had white people coming up to me with tears in their eyes. And I told Kanye this tears in their eyes saying, thank you so much, as if they’re forgotten people for just allowing us to have our voices back. They’ve been sitting in silence, completely sidelined told that they are not allowed to be American because there’s a vicious narrative around that somehow black Americans are suffering from policing and therefore white lives can’t matter. They do. It’s obvious Kanye was correct.

So do you have Candace Owens given testimony of that? She had white friends coming up and thanking her for the fact that they gave them a voice. As I said, I would assume that there were white folks out there who felt some way about it because it was highly politicized. And you can’t say that my life matter as well, but we have to say that Black Lives Matter, and it was the absurdity of the whole thing was crazy. So I would imagine that they probably were. But I never acted on my friends that, and they have never mentioned that to me. So I’m going to ask this if you are a white person who listened to our podcast and the prevalence of the slogan Black Lives Matter was an issue to you, contact us, let us know. There are multiple ways to contact us. If you go to removingbarriers.net/contact you’ll, find our social media, handle, email, phone number, messages, stuff like that. Contact us, let us know. But I would imagine that somewhere, but I can’t speak for them.

I’m surprised by your answer. Now, I know that you can’t take the experience of a handful of people and say that all people that look like that person are experiencing the same thing. But I don’t think it’s too far of a stretch to say that white people were hurt by the prevalence of the Black Lives Matter slogan. Because in the sense that when the riots were happening in the streets and the so called Summer of Love or whatever they were calling it back in 2020, people were targeted because of their skin color. White people were attacked. White people were humiliated and told, like, on camera, you need to kneel because of your this, that, or the other, paying for sins that they didn’t commit left, right and center. White people were told that they were racist, that they were unsympathetic, unempathetic, or lacking empathy for everyone else because they were a part of this so called privileged group. And this is how Black Lives Matter views the entire country. There’s white people and then there’s everyone else, which is a very insane way of looking at the world and looking at people. In addition to that, I’ve always been one that was against the idea of affirmative action because for many reasons I won’t go into it that I’ve discussed in other podcasts before. But there are many instances where you have a list of qualified candidates, the majority of which might be white, but of necessity, the people that are initiating the hiring process, they have to pick the intersectional person, the black person, the woman, the gay person, or whatever for representational purposes. And I can understand what they’re trying to do, but I think that the way they’re going about it is wrong. So people who would qualify for the position don’t get the job. That’s hurting people in very much the same way in the reverse, when it was in the 1950s, 1960s, 40s, whatever it was, where black people would be discriminated against and not get a job even though they were qualified. It’s the same thing, just inverted. So I would say white people were indeed hurt by this. And in fact, I’m going to scratch that. I’m going to say there isn’t an ethnicity or a person in this country that Black Lives Matter didn’t hurt, undermine or perform some sort of sleight of hand to where Black Lives Matter came on top. Like the individuals who run Black Lives Matter came on top and everyone else is left having to pick up the pieces. I think that’s unfortunate. I mentioned before how words no longer have meaning, even though these are very heavy words, heavy synths that must be dealt with. People are reduced to the amount of melanin in their skin, which they have absolutely no control over. It’s just using racism to fight racism, and you just end up with more racism. You end up with more polarization. So I certainly think that everyone, not just white people, everyone in general has been negatively affected by not just the Black Lives Matter slogan, but also the organization and the movement as a whole.

Yeah, I agree with you. I think I was looking at it a little bit different than the way you looked at it, and I certainly agree with what you just said. I think that what you said was good. Oh, I misunderstood you then? No, I don’t think you misunderstood me. I just think that I was thinking about it a different way. I was more thinking about it more maybe tourism, like physically hurt or maybe towards the direction of did they internalize it? Did it cause them to have depression or something like that? In my mind, I’m thinking that it should be what off of a duck back at this point for the course, at this point in terms of am I going to allow people that don’t know me, that don’t care about me and my family to hurt me kind of thing. But I do see what you’re saying, and I do agree with what you’re saying. I do think that, looking at it from your perspective, yes, definitely, everyone, including black people, were hurt by the prevalence of the slogan Black Lives Matter and all the evil that they did. You said something, though, MCG, that is really important. You said that because of the intersectionality of all of this leftist ideology, all of it is interrelated, that white people are having to or was it Kenneth OS that said, I can’t remember they’re having to do or identify with something, anything, in order to not be identified as candidates. That was Candace. Okay? In order to not be identified as white because of the backlash that comes from just being all those things you described as being a white male, cisgendered, heterosexual, all those different things. So it certainly has hurt white people in the sense that now there’s this explosion of white people identifying as all kinds of crazy things, identifying as a disabled, identifying as trans going through the entire gender reassignment process. Or some people identify as being trans racial. Meaning they trans racial? Yeah. No. Identify themselves as being black, certainly. And of course, any people, group of color besides, quote, unquote, white, all of it is related. There was a time when you could go to Black Lives Matters website and when you went to the tab that delineates what they stood for, what they cared about, everyone was represented except for black men, black men and white men, obviously, trans people. The trans agenda was in there. LGBTQ, well, black men were represented in terms of police brutality. Well, they use black men for the cause. So that’s the only black man they like that they care about. The ones that have, quote, unquote, because I don’t think all of it was police brutality. A few were, but a lot of them weren’t. But the black man that they like is the black man that didn’t identify as a man. And so the explosion of people who identify as fill in the blank and the lengths that they go through or to in order to bring about this false reality in their head, in order to bring it out, to bring it about in life, has definitely hurt them. And this is speculation on my part, but I really do believe, as a consequence of all of these different things and the demonizing and marginalization of white males, I believe there is a link between all of that ideology. And the increase that we see in white males in terms of suicide, in terms of mass shootings, in terms of the violence that we see in response. This is just my speculation, but I think that stuff rolls downhill, and I really think that in some way or another that hasn’t been explored, these things are related. Yeah, I will agree with that.

So do you think we should stop the craziness of blank lives matter. I really do think so, because I go back to that verse that I read where First Peter was it? Let’s see. I’m sorry, not First Peter, two Timothy 2:15, where the Scriptures exhort us to shun profane and vain babblings, for they will increase unto more ungodliness. I think that’s exactly what happens. It’s like two kids fighting, and they say something like, well, you’re a stink face. No, I’m not a stink face. You’re this face. And it just keeps escalating. And you know how kids bicker back and forth? Well, where does it end? Okay, you say black lives matter. Well, I say all lives matter. Well, I say white lives matter. Well, I say this, that or the other, and it just goes back and forth. It just increases ungodliness. And I really think that as Christians, we need to be the adults in the room and stand up and say, the saith the Lord. However, the Lord would have us structure this conversation and point people guide people toward Christ because it’s gotten to the point where people are becoming impervious to attempts to reach them, impervious to reason, the attempt to reason with them. I’m thinking of the scripture that says, come, let us reason together. Even basic dialogue. The attempt at basic dialogue falls flat to the ground because people have the shell where if you don’t agree with me, I don’t want to hear anything you have to say. Well, we have lost our ability to disagree and still befriend. It’s ridiculous. There’s an old saying that we can agree to disagree and still move on. I was saying that disagreement is the spice of life. There’s nothing wrong with disagreement. I have numerous friends that I would disagree on certain topic at certain times, and that’s fine. Disagreement is fine. You don’t have to agree with everything someone say. And if you disagree with someone, that doesn’t mean you hate them or you dislike them or you wish them ill and all that stuff. I think that’s where you’re getting that. Yeah. One Peter 3:15 and 17 says, but sanctify the Lord God in your hearts and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you for the reason of the hope that is in you with meekness. And fear having a good conscience that whereas they speak evil of you as evil doers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. For it is better if the will of God be so that you suffer for well doing than for evil doing. And so that applies to our speech.

If we’re trying to talk to someone, trying to reach some, we’re not going to get there by this tit for tat back and forth. Black lives matter, white lives matter, all eyes matter, back and forth. We’re not going to be able to get there. The scriptures tell us the Lord himself told us to love our enemies and do good to them which hate you, and these people do hate you. If you do not agree with what they say, do good to them which hate you, bless them that curse you and pray for them which despitefully use you. And that’s something that, again, I say we need to look to our Savior in terms of how to speak to I really take this to heart because when we’re at the door, we’re going to be running into people who believe this sort of thing. We’re going to run into children who grew up believing this sort of thing. We’re going to run into people who grew up in households that are completely antithetical to the word of God. We’re going to witness to people who have two mothers or two fathers or who were allowed to go through the transition process at a young age and now they’re like 18, 1920, and the issues are not resolved. And there’s a lot of mental anguish, spiritual anguish. Only the wisdom of God and the word of God and the love of God can penetrate that type of impervious shell. And I think the enemy is working overtime to harden people to the Gospel in a way that perhaps people 100 years ago probably would have never imagined. And you say this all the time. MCG and I really appreciated that the church is still approaching the culture as though there was some sort of consensus about God and there really isn’t any longer. And Christians really need to evaluate how we’re going to reach these people and love. Our Savior came to the world filled with grace and truth. The Gospel says I think it’s John that he says that he came full of grace and truth. And so how are we going to take that and apply it and live it and have it come out in our speech when we’re speaking to people who are living lives that disgust us? And when I say disgust us, it’s because they are living completely antithetical to the Scripture. How are we going to talk about that woman who is ultra feminist and was probably a part of the group of women who deliberately took the Ru 46 pill in order to just show that they can have an abortion as they please? How are we going to talk to that mother who killed her baby in the womb? How are we going to talk to that person, that’s transitioning, or the person that grew up thinking that homosexuality is normal because he’s got two daddies and he feels some kind of way as well, people who have been sexually assaulted, sexually molested. There’s so much going on in the world that I really hope Christians would listen to this podcast. And remember, we might agree with the conservatives, the talking heads on TV and on YouTube, and that’s fine, but we must not behave like them because we are distinctly Christian. We are called apart. We are. Set apart. And of course I’m preaching to myself here as well, and that should come out in how we speak and interact with those that are lost.

Yeah, I agree with you. I want to touch on something you said, because this is what I have noticed, and I’m not saying this is generally the case, but I believe it might be generally the case, because if you look in romans one where the bible says, God gave them over, honored their body among themselves, men with men doing that which is unseemly, and the woman likewise. So this is what I’ve noticed, that I have never knocked on the door of someone who identify as transgender or gay or whatever. They fall in within the alphabet soup of LGBTQIA plus. And they were willing to have a discussion with me about spiritual things. As soon as I say that I’m from a church or as soon as I mentioned church or God or any spiritual stuff, immediately they don’t want to talk. With one exception, those who identify as being gay, lesbian, whatever, whatever other term that they use, but they also identify as being Christian, quote unquote. They would want to talk, but they won’t let you talk. So they will basically say, like I remember one guy, he said, we go to such a sort of church and we love this pastor. Don’t have the name of the pastor he mentioned and we’re not going to leave that church. Then he said this my partners and I are happy where we are. Partners? Like plural? Yes. Oh my word. So therefore this was a middle aged man and I think it was at least obvious to me that he was gay. I don’t think my soul winning partner, it was obvious to him because we discussed it afterwards, but he kind of gave that spill and then the conversation was done. He didn’t want to talk any further. He didn’t really want to go into anything. So basically it still fall in the same bracket. The ones that don’t want anything to do with God don’t want to talk to you at all. And the ones that claim to have some sort of spiritual background just basically flood you with a lot of words and then say thank you and kind of hurrying off on the mirror. At least that’s my experience. So it’s very hard to talk to these people about spiritual stuff.

Also, wasn’t it just yesterday I might be getting old, but wasn’t it just yesterday that the general consensus was that human life matter? There are some things that you don’t really have to say. Everyone, at least in the Western world, understood that human life mattered. The fact that we are in a place in our culture where we have to affirm any human being regardless of racial group, that their life matter. Well, I guess the word for me, for this podcast is absurd. So of course we should stop saying whatever the case may be, whether this life matter or that life matter or whatever, human lives matter. Period. Amen.

So the question is though, why do human lives matter? Why is it that when you meet your fellow human being that day lives matter? Well, I think there are a couple of reasons for that. And I think the most important reason and the most important factor here to answer that question should be grounded in the word of God. The Bible says in Genesis one one, you have to go right back to Genesis. In the beginning, God in the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth. Therefore, if God is a creator as I believe him to be, and according to the Bible, this cultural concept of race is non biblical. And we have touched on this in so many different episodes. You can talk about episode two. We talk about this and many other episodes. We talk about how the different people groups come about and stuff like that. I won’t get into this episode. You can go back and listen to episode two, episode 91, episode 92 and many other episodes where we discuss race. But why do human life matter? Well, if you have a world view where you believe Genesis one one in the beginning of God created and the fact that God is a creator of everything. First, we must acknowledge that the Bible teaches us in Genesis one, verse 26 and 27. And God said, let us make man in our image after our likeness and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creep it upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him. Male and female created he them. Why do human lives matter? Because we are created in the image of God and we can stay right there. There shouldn’t be no other reason why human lives matter. That reason alone should be sufficient for the fact that God is the creator of everything. And God said that he created us in our image. That’s why it is wrong to murder. Because when we murder, we are killing the image of God. That’s why human life is available. That’s why we don’t kill babies in the womb. That’s why we don’t kill old people at the end of their lives because they were created in the image of God. And preachers will say this part of it is free. Well the verse and male and female created heed them. That’s free. But that’s only true gender and that’s male and female and you can’t change.

Anyway. Another reason why human life matter is because of John she 16. John she 16 says for God so love. Why do human life matter? Because humans are loved by God. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasted in life. He gave his only begotten son. My friend, I have four sons, four rambunctious boys, that one day I’m just going to ship them to their grandparents someplace. However, I will never ever give up any one of them for your life. But God says that he so loved you that he gave his only begotten son. Why do human lives matter? Because humans are loved by God. One John 419 we loved Him because he first loved us. Why do human life matter? Because we made an image of God. Because humans are loved by God. And lastly because Christ died for you. The Bible says in Romans chapter five and verse eight but God commended his love towards us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. How did God demonstrated or showed his love for us? By Christ’s death on the cross? Christ died for us is another reason why human lives matter. Because it mattered enough that Christ would die. Acts 20 of verse 28 he said Take he therefore unto yourself and to all the flock over which the Holy Ghost had made you overseers, to feed the church of God which he had purchased with his own blood. And why did he died? So they can redeem us from the slave market of sin. So we can avoid the reality of hell and enjoy the splend of heaven, so that we can be saved from the judgment to come. Human life matter. It doesn’t matter your racial or people group you belong to. Christ died for you. You are made in image of God and you are loved by God. The Bible declared in Romans chapter ten, verse nine to 13, that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in thine heart that God has raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart men believe it unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture has said, whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the drew and the Greek, for the same Lord overall is rich unto all that called upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Human life matter, and it matters so much that Christ died for you. My question, my plea for you is would you trust Him today?

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