Episode 107

In this episode of the Removing Barriers podcast, we continue our 2-part interview with Pete and Erin, a married couple who have gone through the process of adopting their son and have graciously agreed to share their experience and perspective with you, our audience. Today, we will hear about adoption from a mother’s point of view. Though we know that men and women are different, you will hear that they have the exact same heart on the issue of adoption, and perhaps the interviews will help stir our hearts regarding this very important topic. Also, for safety and other considerations, we’ve censored any personal identifiable information.

I think about what our life would be without him, because I can’t picture that at all, because it’s been such a building in my faith, not because he was adopted, but because he was just raising a child in your home. It brings you to your knees in prayer for their health, for their spiritual well being, for their behavior issues or their education. So many things in parenting brings us to our knees. And I’ve grown, and my husband has grown so much in our faith because of him.

Thank you for tuning in to the Removing Barriers podcast. I’m Jay and I’m MCG. And we’re attempting to remove barriers so we can all have a clear view of the cross.

This is episode 107 of the Removing Barriers podcast, and in this episode, we will be sitting down with Erin to discuss Christian adoption and mother’s perspective. Erin, it is a pleasure and welcome to the Removing Barriers podcast. Thank you for having me. It’s good to be here.

Great. Well, let’s get into it. Tell us the story. Why did you adopt? Well, I’d always wanted to adopt from my childhood. I’d always just thought it was such a beautiful way to allow children that would otherwise grow up in kind of a difficult circumstance to have an opportunity for a loving family. I never really knew if I would have my own, but I just always had that in my heart to do. And then when I met Pete, he felt the same way about that, but he always wanted to try it, to start a family on our own first, and then we would adopt down the road. So we went down that journey, and unfortunately, with some infertility and health issues, we just had a lot of barriers that would not allow that to happen easily. And so after our first miscarriage, we were like, hey, let’s look into this. Let’s look into the adoption process. And I had some friends at a Bible study that had told me about an agency that worked with all the 50 states that the child could potentially come from any of the 50 states. And so we went ahead and looked into that agency, and once we started with them, we got connected to a social worker and they were assigned to our case. And then the way the agency worked, the birth mothers had their own agents as well, which was really nice because one agent will look after the one family and the other would look after the birth mothers. And what’s kind of interesting is the way that this adoption agency works is you make a profile, kind of like a dating website in my mind, like, where you make a video of yourself and kind of show your home and show your hopes and dreams, and you literally are interviewed by someone and you make a video for her to see. And then you answer quite a few essays in paper form and that way she can read through all the different things that you would love to do with your child or philosophies you have for parenting and different things. And so that kind of got the ball rolling. And then once our profile and active, they started sharing our video and our profile with all of the different birth mothers that were looking for parents to take their little ones. So that’s kind of how the journey started. And then we’re kind of in the waiting process for a birth mother to find us. And that’s the kind of neat is part about our baby story, is that she chose us. We didn’t necessarily get to do what you think about in books like go to an orphanage like Annie and pick a child by looking at them. We just told the Lord we wanted whatever child would be for us.

And the way the agency worked, you got to choose two different tracks, which was kind of at the time a little bit upsetting because it was based on race of the child. It was African American mixed with any other kind of crass to say, but it sounds like color and then white mixed with any color. And we were kind of disturbed by that. And the way the agency also explained it was one cost one price and the other cost another price. And we were disturbed by that as well because we were like, why is there such a difference in cost? And we were told that the reason is because there is much higher percentage of birth mothers of color looking for adoptive families than Caucasian or anything else. And so that was disturbing to us. We did not like that. We were like, this is really weird and we certainly aren’t going to pick one over the other. And so we basically told our agents that we were going to pay the cost for both tracks is how it works in their company. And they said the reason why the cost for the adoption for African-American mothers children is because they have to absorb some of the paperwork costs and lawyer fees and things like that to make it more incentivized to families to open their homes. But we weren’t comfortable with that. We really wanted to give both any mother in the whole group that liked our profile and were interested in us being their child’s parent that they could choose us. And she told us, she like literally told us that we should just choose African American because that’s what we were going to end up with. And she said it’s because those mothers have a lot fewer families profiles to look at and so they choose from the pool of parents that they have. And so we were like, that’s fine, if that’s what the Lord gives us, then we can’t wait to meet them. And so that’s kind of our perspective and we both were very excited by the idea that the baby was going to come from the Lord, just like if it was going to grow in our wound or my woman, it would grow in our hearts the same way. And so we were very excited for the process, and we were introduced to a couple of children’s situations that they were toddlers, but we were both pretty sure the Lord was leading us to a baby to start out our family because we kind of wanted to have the experience of growing up with them. And we decided that we would be open to that possibly in the future just but at the beginning we wanted to start with an infant, so we just kind of played about it and when the door didn’t open the door completely, we kind of would move forward with the next profile where they could they brought us that. That’s kind of the beginning of our story, the way it started. It’s kind of a long story. It’s a great story. But do you have any questions about what I’ve kind of given you so far?

Yeah, one of the things I was going to ask you is what are some of the blessings that you’ve received having gone through the process and now your son is yours. And I imagine, and I know that you would consider him just as much your son as though you bore him yourself. What are some of the blessings that your son has brought you as a result of the adoption? What is a huge blessing to our family? And ever since he was a baby, he has been super bright and super loving and he’s a super deep thinker. And I mean, even something as sweet as I remember one morning I woke up super tired and I came out, he was with his daddy and he comes to me, to my door and he goes, Mama. He goes, that was sad. And I was like, Why? And he goes, Because Jesus died on the cross. But I told him not to be sad. I was like, okay. And so I was like, wow, those are deep thoughts coming from a two year old. And I think that’s the part about the blessings, when I think of the word blessing for our son is that he I think of all that he’s going to be and all that he is now. And if his birth mother had chosen to do that, every woman in the world would never have. Well, I can’t say that. I can say that people who are prochoice would have never objected to a 19 year old who was a college student and had a promising future and was incredibly intelligent and to choose abortion. And I just think, how many little ones are we losing like him that are smart and bright and empathetic and kind and he is the best big brother I could ever imagine for his little sister. And I just think to myself, if he hadn’t come first. I really just can’t imagine our family. I don’t even know if our daughter would be here because then we were so busy parenting our first. The Lord is what surprised us with our second. Right. So I think if we had stressed about, oh, it has to be ours, gestationally ours, I think that we would have lost the blessing of both. Like we would have lost the blessing of and lost the blessing. I think that the biggest thing that I can think of as a blessing is that I think of how intelligent and kind he is and how if he had been adopted by another family or if he had been one of the choices of abortion, the world wouldn’t have him. That’s the biggest blessing I can think of is that we do have him.

Yeah, I heard someone said once we probably would have already cured cancer, maybe we abort that person who would have been born to cure cancer. And the list goes on and on and on. So definitely so how does your son change your perspective or outlook on adoption? I think he opens up my world to the idea of anybody can be family. Like literally when we were told that his birth mother chose us, we had just a few days to get ready. And normally in adoption process you kind of are looking forward to walking through the pregnancy with the birth mother and checking in on them and you’re walking with them through the whole process. And so this was like instantly like, OK, your child is going to be here. And we didn’t know if it was a boy or a girl. It was such an exciting surprise. And when we held him for the first time, there was no question like that this was our child. And I think that was the surprise for me because I’d never been a mother before and I was like, this is the coolest thing, where we were taking care of him, he was eating bottle feeding him and cuddling and giving him baths and changing diapers and all of that happened within a week of finding out that we were chosen. And that’s not uncommon with adoption, especially if you do it through like a foster care or more of a not. The private adoption route is you get surprised. Like somebody gives you a call and says, hey, we need a placement today for this child. And then you don’t know if you’ll get to keep them if you choose to foster. And then sometimes the foster to adopt situation does come through and you’re able to keep that little one yourself, which is such a blessing. So I think changes my perspective in that I grew up with no adopted siblings myself and no one in my family had adopted at that point. But I see now the absolute miracle that the love that we have for our sons was they were like and a lot of people are like, oh, well, you know, do you love them the same? And it’s like that’s the silliest question to me, because we never went through that, and maybe some families do, because maybe it’s more of a difficult situation. But he was an angel. He really was the textbook angel kid from the first day. And I’m not being sarcastic, because I did use a book with sleep training and different things, and he was by the book, so it would say, like, okay, he’s how many weeks old? He needs to take this many naps. Okay, he was the textbook. Not every family has that story. But I think that the potential of whatever the Lord’s going to use that child, because regardless if it is a natural born like your child or an adopted child, the Lord designed them for your family and for your walk with Christ. And so the challenges and the blessings and all of that are going to be because he wants you to grow more like Jesus. So all of that is going to come from that specific child.

Let’s talk a little bit more about those challenges. I know that there are many challenges when it comes comes to adopting a child, and the challenges increase the older the child is, as opposed to, say, adopting a baby. Let’s talk about one particular challenge, and I think it’s a challenge perhaps only because of how polarizing this particular issue is in our country today. But I’m going to talk about what the world refers to as race. We know, however, that there’s only one race, but because of how things are in the US. When we say race colloquially, we just mean the color of your skin, your ethnicity. Have you experienced any backlash or weird stares from someone or anyone from either side because you adopted a child that did not share your same skin color? Have you ever experienced, say, a so called black person kind of looking at you sideways? Why does she have him? Or have you perhaps seen a so called white person look at you? Like, why would you adopt it? You know what I mean? Like these different attitudes that people can say with their eyes or say subvertedly or under their breath or just they try to say it in a joking way, but they really mean what they’re saying. You know what I mean? Like, have you experienced any of that? We’ve been very fortunate because we’ve always lived in very diverse areas, and I think that matters. But the place I get the most stairs is the airport. And honestly, I’m not terribly offended by that because I’m really glad that the TSA agents are human trafficking is a huge issue, and so I think that right there is okay when I get the book, because as soon as they talk to him, they smile like ear because he answers them so intelligently or so quickly. And decisively and smiling and such. And so I remember when we first brought him home to meet my side of the family lives in more of a rural area, though, where people would be like so excited to meet him, but then they would say, well, where is he from? And then they were thinking that we had adopted internationally. And I was so irritated when I said the state he was from and they were like, oh, like instantly less cool factor. And I was like, that’s annoying. Yeah, I was put off by that. Like saying there’s a huge problem in America with adoption being such a necessity. And I get the total need for going overseas, especially for medical intervention. Adoption, I think that’s a huge thing that is needed and is so important for families that can financially support that kind of adoption. But I was irritated that people thought that the situation was less cool to use the term, because it was a domestic adoption. And so I think that that is probably the only thing. I just think that that is just plain I put that down to plain ignorance and just that people are more interested and more curious about something that’s fantastic. And when you hear, oh, it came from just another state in the US. Then I just was kind of put off by that. But I thankfully have not had any adults give us any we’ve only had one incident where there was a guy who made a side comment about how we should buy some rap music from him because we needed as he aged. And that was a little strange, but that was the only adult experience we’ve ever had.

And then we have had children that have said things to and that is a little irritating because I am a defensive mama and no one’s ever mean. So it’s just my mama bear kind of comes out, but he’s old enough now that he just tells the story, which is perfect. And I used the opportunity to just explain to the little ones like, yeah, adoption, and kind of giving them a little bit of a background of it. But it kind of makes me sad that parents are not educating their children on different kinds of families that you’ll see, whether it’s even like a step family situation. I feel like we need to let our kids know that there are lots of reasons, like somebody living with a grandma or a grandpa or an aunt or an uncle. They just need to be less shocked by those kind of domestic differences. But I think the time and education will just hopefully answer that problem.

Now, adoption is a wonderful picture of what Christ has done for us in which he has taken us and saved us from darkness, the family of darkness where the devil, the liar was our father. And now having trusted in Christ, we are translated, we are brought into the family of Christ. We are given his righteousness, we are made new. We are adopted into the family of God. And so adoption is like a little picture on earth of what that’s like. Do you think that perhaps somewhere in your mind, in addition to having wanted to have done this your entire life since you were a little girl, do you think an element of it also is desiring to make a statement about what Christ has done for us by doing this adoption? Just making a statement about that? I don’t think it necessarily was a conscious statement, but I think I remember in the process, it was so natural. It was actually kind of irritating when people made it seem like it was unusual, I was like, well, of course, literally, we would have people say, oh, I could never do that. Like, I could never take another person into my home and raise them as my own. And it’s like, but if you call yourself a believer, that’s the most silly thing I’ve ever heard, because, I mean, we should all be able to love whoever the Lord brings into our life in order to edify each other and protect each other and nurture each other. And so when we were explaining salvation to him whenever he was younger, we’ve always provided adoption books. And there are several, like, children adoption books, and when he was younger, there wasn’t as many resources as there are now, even for children of color to be in books as characters. But now there is, and there’s even characters where their families have different colors. And I don’t joke. It’s actually I think it’s a gift from the Lord. Not the Dinosaur Train is a gift from the Lord, but something as simple as dinosaur train. On PBS Kids website or channel, they have a trex living with Tyrannosaurs, and to me, that from a baby. And it was never unusual to him to see a different one character in a family mixed with another family. It was never unusual. So he never had those insecure feelings as a child of like, oh, I don’t quite fit in here, because he thought that was normal, because he saw media, he saw books. And so I think that to me, the adoption just felt so natural as like, of course, this is just another great way to grow your family and add to your blessings in your home.

And I don’t pretend that there is no baggage that comes with the adoption, because I am positive that there is, especially if you adopt children that are in their toddler years, during those just difficult years, no matter if they’re biological or not, or if they’re a teenager or if they’re a ten year old, there’s just different challenges. But in my mind, price takes us where we are. So that’s why I think it’s natural, and what a beautiful story to explain to your child as they develop and even if they don’t choose Christ right away. Like, for example, if you adopt a child that’s maybe ten and they did not grow up with the gospel in their home and they grew up in a lot of foster care situations or that were negative, I mean, it would take a while for the child to maybe trust the parent or the adoption process. And so I think that God can tenderize that child’s heart and make them ready so the parent is just sowing the seed of the gospel and then waiting to see because the Lord is the harvest giver. So if we can just be faithful with the parenting and following God’s way, no matter the age for adoption, you have a potential for that child to get saved if you can model Christ to your child.

Let me ask you this. There’s a lot of folks that when they think about adoption, as you alluded to the wonder, would I ever really love a kid who’s not biologically mine? But some folks also take it to another extreme where they believe that folks are in it for the financial benefits that might be in it. Maybe the tax credit that a child gives you. Or some states actually pay for the parents to take children monthly stipend or whatever. And if you have three, four kids, that 2005 or whatever per month for the kids. What do you say to people like that who believe that, hey, you’re going to this for the money, or people who will say that you abused that child? We have heard horror stories where people abuse the adopted child or the adopted child and they don’t feel a part of a family. Stick to that and your love for your son in the light of that. Because I think a lot of times the barriers at the Deer are those barriers where people think, hey, I’m going to love my own kid a little bit more, or whatever the case may be. Right? Well, I did experience when I was in high school, one of the families at the Christian school I attended had several children that were foster children that their family had many foster kids in their home and they had adopted them, a bunch of them. I’m not sure if all of them, and they had their own biological children as well. And I always kind of wondered if they were doing it for financial benefit because neither one of them worked. But at the same time, I also saw that the children were loved. They were in a private school and it wasn’t like they weren’t in there forever, but maybe it was because they were able to afford at the time. But when I experienced the fun I had at their home, like playing with those children, I never saw anything like abuse. I never saw anything that looked like they weren’t being well. Nourished, I saw a busy home with lots of kids, but it actually put it in a good light in my eyes. And then when I was in college, I also met a man that had grown up in that situation where he was a foster to adopt and he had a very loving home and parents who loved God and taught him about Jesus at a young age and that he was eventually adopted. And so I think that people that would think of those as barriers, I think that it would be the people that they have witnessed, because they’re absolutely 100% are people who foster children for the financial benefit. They’re like, I’m okay with kids. I don’t mind them, I’ll tolerate them, I do want the money. There are people who do that in the world and somehow they pass a home study. And that disturbs me because in order to be a foster parent, you do have to pass a home study. In order to adopt a child, you have to pass a home study. And that is actually when I talk to people.

One of the scariest barriers that people think about when they are considering fostering children is that they are afraid of the home study. And I definitely want to encourage listeners that home studies, especially for the adoption process, they’re more like an interview where the adoptive family wants to get your perspective on how you want to live your life. They do ask you about discipline and things like that and how you would love your child if this or that situation came about. But it is all out of not wanting to report you to the authorities for your decisions to do any kind of purple punishment or whatever. A mother may not choose you if you put that in your profile, but that’s okay. That’s just not the child that was meant for you. So in my mind, I think that parents shouldn’t let the home study process be a barrier because that is a way for the birth mother to learn more about you, learn more about what your hopes and dreams are for your family, how your family dynamic works and what your home is like, because that’s what they report. Like how many bedrooms you have, what your house size is, your yard. And then they ask you questions and some of them are weird and you’re uncomfortable, but then you remember that they’re not going to send you to jail for your answers because they’re just wanting to give the perspective to the birth family so they can make a better choice.

Cool. You’re listening to the Removing Barriers podcasts. We sit down with Erin and we’re talking about Christian adoption. A mother’s perspective. We’ll be right back.

Hi, this is Jay. MCG and I would like for you to help us remove barriers by going to removingbearriers.net and subscribing to receive all things Removing Barriers. If you’d like to take your efforts a bit further and help us keep the mics on, consider donating at removingbarriers.net/donate. Removing Barriers, a clear view of the cross.

Let’s talk a little bit about our adoption work in the United States, maybe under a broad perspective. Based on your experience, how does adoption work in the United States? Well, there are a bunch of different options. We chose domestic adoption, which means that you can adopt from any of the states in the US. And the cost of that varies from agency to agency because there are things that you have to pay for, like lawyers, paperwork, or just two of the cost that has to be taken into account. Each state also has a certain amount of money that has to be put towards the birth mother’s living expenses and stuff like that, depending on where she is in the process of the pregnancy, whenever she decides to put her child up for adoption. And so each date varies. The agency we worked with told us that the average cost of adoption is around $70,000 for domestic adoption. And the way our agency work is they took the money that we gave them and then they told us anything that they didn’t use would just be refunded back to us, but they had to keep money aside for any medical bills that would come later. Sometimes it takes a while for hospitals to process a full account until the closing of the birth and all of that, especially if there are complications and such. So once all the time had passed, about three months had passed, we got a small portion of the money back, which we just put right back into like the money to waste him. But I think cost for domestic adoption is one of the biggest barriers that people think about. And there are other agencies, the one we worked with, we were kind of stuck with because of where we were at the time. But they’re smaller agencies that are even faith based agencies that work with birth mothers. Bethany adoptions is what I was told about, and they are much less cost prohibitive, but they are also completely different in the way they do the profile and such like that. Like, in my mind, it’s just not as much of a dating site ritual where you’re making your profile. It’s more paperwork and it’s more possible interviews and it’s more probably more connection with the birth mother, I would guess, because it’s more one on one type meetings and such like that. So for people who are interested in a smaller agency, they would definitely just do a search in their area for what state or what their state allows.

But was one that worked through all of the 50 states. So the birth mother could have come from anywhere. And each state also has its own laws on how long the birth mother has to change their mind. That’s also something that a family that’s considering adoption would want to take into account, that states out west, like California, have like. Months for the birth parents to change their minds. And so each state has different rules. But some states, I’ve heard it could be three to six months after you’ve already brought the baby home, that the birth mother can change their mind. And so our situation was much shorter than that. So we were very thankful. And she was also very sure of her decision, which we are also very thankful. And we stayed in very close touch with her. So she felt like if she had any questions about how we were doing, that we would keep her up to date. And that’s what we were comfortable with in our situation because of how we knew her. And so she was just very kind and respectful of our privacy. And so we just wanted to honor that by sharing with her when she asked for updates on how our son was doing.

So a foster to adopt situation is another option, and the cost average for that is only about $2,744 is what I found online as the average cost. So I’m not in the 30 on any of these numbers because I’m just at the mercy of what’s available online. And it has been several years since we adopted, so the cost has changed some. But I do know several families who have done the foster to adopt situation and it has worked out incredibly well for them. And their families are thriving. People just need to pray about what the Lord could open their family to. Several families in our church, I know, are parents who have chosen to be foster parents where they’re not necessarily looking to adopt, but I don’t think that they are opposed to that either. So the option of fostering children and giving them that loving, wholesome family connection, sharing the gospel with them while they’re in their home, for as long as they’re in their home, but you need to be prepared for the possibility of them being reunited with their families or having to move on to another home. And so I think that is just something that every family has to take into consideration for what they want to do and what they feel like the Lord is calling them to do.

You mentioned that it’s been several years since you adopted and things might have changed in terms of price. I know that it’s different depending on the state in which you adopt because I’m fairly certain there’s no overall federal system for adoption. So generally, what would you say the requirements for adoption are? And I know that you’re not an authority, you only went one particular route with one particular agency. There’s a limit to how much you know. But for someone who might be listening to this podcast and they might be considering adoption, is there a general idea of what they might encounter in terms of how might they qualify, what the requirements are to qualify, how they might initiate the process, how does that work generally? And as much as you are aware of, I know each state has its own requirements. There are government adoption possibilities, but there are state adoptions. There’s no federal like you say, there’s no federal system that I am aware of and I could be wrong about that. I believe it’s state by state because each state does have their own rules and ways to regulate such things. But I do know that it’s very similar to the fostering requirements, which is they prefer two parents, but that’s not a requirement. And I know adoption, a lot of birth mothers prefer a two parent household because they think that that’s more stable, but it’s not a requirement, especially for foster parents. I know it’s not a requirement, but financial stability is something that I don’t know how deep they can look, but I do know that they are looking for someone that’s responsible financially. And even if they get that stipend, they need to be able to support them. And for example, if a woman is a stay at home mom and the husband works and that’s an ideal situation, but if the woman has to work as well, that’s fine. As long as they can provide a babysitter or a daycare or even if that child is school age, they can have a school that’s available for that child to attend. So I think those really are the only requirements, unless the agency itself has requirements. But I don’t think that they’re allowed. I don’t think the state is allowed to go nosing around every little thing about you. You do need to take classes, if you do foster to adopt situations and even international adoption, I was told that you have to do when we considered that, I was told that there were several classes depending on the country you would have to take just to be culturally sensitive to the adopted child.

But in domestic adoption there’s no rules about classes that you take and such you’re definitely probably encouraged if you do domestic adoption to do research and that may be told about class that are available. But I know in fostering you are required to pass certain courses in order to be active as a foster family. So those ways in domestic adoption are opportunities. And like I said, each state has its own rules and some probably are more stringent than others. But what’s troubling is that in bigger cities with bigger issues. With families being separated. I think that the workload ends up being quite a big barrier for the state workers to have to tackle. Which is where you hear about more of the abuse that goes on. Where the families aren’t vetted as well as they should. And some families are able to slip through the cracks that may be passed the home study or pass the courses. But their intentions are not honorable or perhaps they just got in over their heads. But I encourage if you have believers that are listeners to look into the possibility of foster situations that are done through faith based organizations. When we lived out on the West Coast, there was one that a couple of families in our church did work through them and they were very big blessing and they were encouraged to share their faith with the children. And so there are faithbased foster possibilities. So you would feel more comfortable maybe in that situation. But there are plenty of children in the state system that need families. One of my families back home that I’m friends with, they’re in a faith based organization where the parents choose to put their children in a foster situation for a time where they are concerned that CPS might step in. And so they basically put themselves in time out like they say, okay, either it’s for financial reasons or if it’s for behavioral reasons or it’s because I need to do school or I need to better myself somehow. And I think that’s such a beautiful option for families if that is in your area to look into that and because what better opportunity could you give as a Christian would be another parent that’s trying to better themselves, that just need a little help getting through a difficult time. And then they are overseen in that situation by somebody who is a social worker at the agency and then they’re returned home whenever the parent is ready and the situation is deemed safe. So I encourage anyone who is looking at, well, I can’t adopt because of our family situation that I would consider fostering. That’s a huge option for families and it’s a huge need. And there’s always a possibility for adoption down the road if that family were to come to the decision of surrendering their parental rights. And it’s heartbreaking for us when they change their mind. I’m sure I know families that that’s happened to and they are heartbroken but the Lord comforts them during that process and they just have to move forward and realize that God had them with that child for a short time for a reason. And so we get really hung up about how long we get our children in our home here on earth. And I think we need to forget the impact that we can have on eternity just by sharing our home with children for as long as we have them. Whether it’s a foster situation or a biological child situation or an adoption situation. We have to reflect. Christ is such a beautiful thing.

Yeah, I was going to ask you about that because it seems to me that it would be an emotional roller coaster, especially for, I would imagine the mother of the home because the mother might be the one who probably spends most of the time with the child if the father works and she stays at home. I wonder how many folks would look at that and say, you know, what I can’t emotionally put myself through that. I do know families who have said that and I know families who have chosen to do that. Foster children and the children were taken away. So I have seen both ways and I think that there are barriers to that situation. And I think that each person has to be spiritually mature enough called really spiritually mature almost sounds like you’re putting them down if they say no. I think that the Lord allows spiritual maturity to happen at different rates for different people. And so I think that you need to be ready, almost like a soldier has to be ready for a battle. Like you go to boot camp and then you go to training and then you go to learn your special skills and then you have to put them into practice on the battlefield. We’re all in different places in our Christian walk. And also it would depend on their home situation, like, say, what kind of a domestic situation do they grow up in? And they might have more that they’re dealing with that way so that there might be certain triggers that having a child that’s my foster child in their home might reignite, ignite the triggers in my family. We grew up very stable and there was so much love in our home that the idea of sharing it with someone who wasn’t biological when we adopted our son, our family was so excited to bring him home. They even made videos to show his birth mother how excited they were. And she just thought it was so neat that he was going to instantly have like 20 cousins. And I don’t want to put any money down and I hope this doesn’t come across that way, but I feel like we’re somewhat selfish emotionally, even as Christians sometimes because we’re like, well, I just can’t I could do that. It’s like, well, wait a minute. Are we called to do that? That’s what we need to find out. It’s the same thing about are you called to witness to your neighbor? Are you called to, you know, talk to a coworker? I mean, there’s a lot of things that are difficult to do that are uncomfortable. But God doesn’t call us onto this earth to raise children and that’s not our purpose in life. Our purpose in life is to take care of each other, to steward our planet, to steward the people that are on our planet. I remember whenever we were trying to have our own child, I told my husband, I said that the Lord doesn’t put us on this earth just to make children. Like, that’s not our purpose. Our purpose is to take care of whatever situation the Lord gives us. And it could be you could have be the Godparents of one of your friends and they pass away and you suddenly are parents. That’s a huge difference. Or say you are a grandparent and now you have custody of your child, are you going to say, oh, I just can’t do that? Like, oh, I’m just emotionally I just can’t I think Christians especially, and I know a lot of your listeners are Christians, but some are not. If you are a Christian, I encourage you to consider that. Are you being called? Is the Lord calling you to it? Because it really is a calling. And if you are an unbeliever, it really is the most beautiful picture of Christ adopting us into his perfect plan of salvation, where we were not a part of the original picture of his chosen people. But we have this beautiful gift of that opportunity.

Yes. And it’s a beautiful picture. And so I do know that a lot of people are like, oh, I just couldn’t. Or maybe someone with a large family is like, oh, I just couldn’t. Our family is too big. Well, there are barriers in fostering because you have to have a certain number of rooms available in your home. But hey, if you have boys and you foster a boy, they’re like, just put them in the boys room. As long as he has a bed. They just don’t want to mix boys and girls together. And so if you have two rooms, like we have a boy and a girl, if we could foster a boy, he would be in the same room with our son. And if we could foster a girl, it could be the same as our daughter. And so I think there’s a lot of barriers that people create that maybe really aren’t there. Like maybe if they prayed through it, got educated. And I have learned a lot that over the years, that if you just become educated by talking to others, by listening to good mentors, that you will overcome the barriers and you will mature.

What do you recommend, private agencies or government agencies? I know you probably use a private one, but do you recommend the private route or the government route? I think that if we had an opportunity to do it again, which we do hope to in the future, that I would like to use a private faithbased one because the one we went through was definitely private. I joked that it was like the BMW of agencies because they took care of everything so well and they just handled every little detail down to like every detail was handled, but it was almost too much when we were doing it. I’m like, wow, we don’t need this kind of treatment. Like, we’re just regular folks here. We don’t need this red carpet treatment. But I just thought you probably could bring your costs down if you didn’t do this this way. So I wanted to use a smaller agency just for the opportunity, a birth mother, to choose us because it is faith based. And our son’s birth mother was happy that because she grew up in a Christian home, and had a faith of her own and she loved that we were Christians. And so if I had to do it again and if we get to do it again, but I certainly wouldn’t limit the Lord and say I have to use that. Because if there is a state situation and that’s what I mean by government, like a state situation where in the state we live in, there is an option for fostering to adopt, I would be open to that as well. The only unfortunate thing about that is the way that the world is working right now. There’s a lot of conditioning and stuff like that that probably would have to be tolerated. We would have to follow a lot of things that we weren’t comfortable with. So that’s why I think that I would love to choose an agency that would encourage faith as a possibility. But it’s almost like a Christian teacher being told, do you want to teach in a Christian school or private school or a public school? Because you have an option to reach so many children and live on them in a public school, but in a private school you could be open about your faith. Well, it’s kind of a similar thing for adoption in a foster situation, whether you go in a state route or a private route. And so I think that that’s what families need to consider what the Lord is calling them to, because he already has our families designed from the minute we get married or even before that, he knows our beginnings and our ends. So I think that we need to ask, what can we be open to? I think that’s the best thing that you can learn is what is my family being called to as a ministry? Because we’re not here on this planet for leisure. We’re here to proclaim Christ. We’re here to serve him. We’re not here just to enjoy our two five children, a dog, a picket fence, or even if we have our own six kid family. We’re not just called to that. We might be called to more. And we need to be asking the Lord, OK, all right, what can we do there to help?

And I think a whole nother level here. I’m going to take it up a whole notch for you and ask your listeners, how can you support foster families in your neighborhood or in your community, perhaps even your church? And that is reach out to the families. What do they need? I guarantee you they could use meals, they could use clothes. If they get a new placement, give them a gift card for Target or Walmart for clothes. Because children, when they move from house to house, a lot of times they don’t have luggage, a lot of times are using garbage bags. There’s whole nonprofit groups that are dedicated to giving children that are in foster families backpacks or duffel bags that are cute, giving them stuffed animals, things that are theirs because of their so abruptly taken away sometimes. And they move from home to home that their personal belongings get lost in the shuffle. And so if you can’t at this exact moment, or maybe you’re not even called, you are definitely given an opportunity here to love on those families. I know a church in Washington where we used to attend would have a whole store and you didn’t pay anything. But they brought foster parents in and the church and the community kept the store stocked with clothes and diapers and different things like that. And then if they knew the families needed meals and whatnot like freezer meals or gift cards for takeout or restaurants or such, they made sure that they had that. So perhaps the Lord isn’t calling you to foster, perhaps the Lord isn’t calling you to adopt. But you could definitely support a family that is and you could also do it financially. I know my husband mentioned in his podcast that if every church in America had one family that would adopt in the whole country, we would not have the epidemic we have of the lack. I remember him saying that and that is so startling. We were told that by one of the professionals we met along the way and we were startled by that because there’s got to be one family willing in a church but maybe they’re not financially able. And so what if the church family just got together and chose to support that child being adopted or that family to adopt? So that’s a whole other other layer and there’s really no limit to how you could live on foster children in other people’s homes.

You mentioned how the barriers to adoption are many for some families. It could be financial, it could be just a bunch of things. And you also mentioned how because the adoption system varies by state and there is no federal adoption system or way of adoption, that the process is different, the requirements are different. And I would imagine how long a child stays in a home before they are adopted, say in a foster situation would change depending on the situation, depending on the state. Right. So in light of all of this, let me ask a question that perhaps you might be able to answer since all of those other questions have so many variables. Why do you think that the adoption process in the United States is so time intensive, cost intensive, energy, everything that many of us have insured or at least in a very limited concentrated supply? Why is it so intensive and so expensive in those kinds of ways, time costs and energy? And this is just my opinion, but I think that it’s definitely I don’t want to sound weird, but I want to say that it feels like it’s a satanic problem. I don’t think that’s weird at all because we are in a spiritual battle here. Let’s just get real. We’re in a spiritual battle. I don’t want to make it sound more fantastical than it it is is a spiritual battle. And what does Satan want to attack the most is the family. And if he can keep these children out of Christ following homes, he will. I mean, he’ll do everything in his power. And I know when I look at what our adoption costs went to, we spent thousands of dollars for our profile to be made. All it was was renting video equipment that we were required to use. We couldn’t use our own. We required to pay someone to edit the video. And it had to be the exact same as everybody else’s video because one video couldn’t be more fantastic than another, which I get, but just those tiny things that cause the price to go up. So not only do I think Satan doesn’t like adoption because it is a picture of price, sure. So I do think it’s a spiritual battle in that way. I do think that it’s nickel and dimed. Like lawyers fees specifically cost thousands and thousands of dollars and paperwork to get filled out by the correct person is another thing. And so the cost prohibitive, like when you look at that 70,000 average cost, it’s going towards lawyers, it’s going towards social workers being paid. It’s going towards the cost of helping the mother through the medical bill.

Anyone who’s had a child knows how cost prohibitive medical bills are. I know in our situation, the agency was actually depending on the state to cover a majority of the costs of the medical bills because the birth mother happened to be on Medicare. And I thought to myself, I’m like, why can’t we do better than that? Why can’t we do better than what Medicare can do? Because when she was in the hospital, she was kicked out as quickly as possible. And that was kind of irritating to me. I stayed in longer than she did, and that’s because I had and so I had our son and they had us stay longer than they had her, which made me a little confused, but they wanted to let her go home as soon as she was well enough. And I feel like those kind of problems are what caused the price of adoption to go up is man. And our requirements and the smaller agencies or even state funded adoptions don’t have those prohibitive costs, but you’re paying for the extra care and the treatment that you’re getting. And in the foster situation or the state funded adoption situation, you are doing more than the leg work and which is why the amount of cost is so much different.

I’m not even quite sure if you know the answer to this, but I wonder if it’s possible if, let’s say you’re adopting a newborn and birth mother bird parent says, hey, you know what? I already made a decision. I’m going to put this child up for adoption. I’ve already chosen the family. Can the family somewhat add that child to their health insurance and that be covered? It’s not covered until after birth, but as soon as we had a birth certificate, we were able to add our son to our insurance. Okay. Unfortunately, in an adoption situation, it doesn’t work until you get what’s beautiful about adoption is you get a new birth certificate. So you literally have to wait for a new piece of paper that has the new name. And so it’s kind of another beautiful picture of adoption in Christ family is we’re given the name of Christ as our father, and on our birth certificate for our son, it has his name with our last name, but when he was born, he was issued a different one. So as soon as the birth certificate is in your hands, you’re able to add your child to your insurance. I guess there’s no way for you to add that child before that. Yeah, unfortunately, the way the system works, as far as I understand, that is not able to happen. And that’s why the cost of adoption, like, say that there’s a medical situation, it gets very tricky because they want, like, especially in overseas adoptions, there’s a lot of cost, and so you need that child to be yours in order to do that kind of medical treatment for the child. So let’s say you do an international adoption where the child has a heart condition. You need to have that child with you. You need to have them. So there’s no way, like, if you were to that I’m aware of because of the birth certificate situation, the insurance companies do not allow that.

All right, well, let’s sum it up, erin, tell us your heart behind the entire matter. You have potentially given your son a life that he otherwise may not have had without you adopting him. And maybe you can even say compare that to the reverse. Maybe he has given you a life that you would not otherwise have had without you adopting him. And we alluded to this, but the Bible says in Galatians four, verse 4-7, but when the fullness of time has come, god sent for the son made of a woman, made under the law to redeem them that were under the law that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because he has sons, god has sent forth the spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, abba Father will, for thou art no more a servant, but a son. And if a son, then in the ear of God through Christ. And of course, Romans eight, verse 14 and 15, for as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For he have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear, but he has received the spirit of adoption, whereby we cry a BA father just sum it up and tell us your heart behind the entire matter. I think that you kind of worded it just perfectly in the reverse like the way you said it, where I think about what our life would be without him, because I can’t picture that at all because it’s been such a building in my faith, not because he was adopted, but because he was just raising a child in your home. It brings you to your knees in prayer for their health, for their spiritual wellbeing, for their behavior issues or their education. So many things in parenting brings us to our knees, and I’ve grown, and my husband has grown so much in our faith because of him, and so we’re so blessed by that. And then our daughter has been so blessed to have him as a big brother, and so I never could picture our life another way, especially at this point in his development. And so I think to sum up adoption in my heart, I hope we get to do more. I really do. I pray that the Lord calls us to that. We were hoping to adopt a sibling group after this born, and then when we got pregnant ourselves, we’re like, okay, Lord, I guess you’re sending us down a different route right now. But we never closed that door. We always hoped that because sibling adoption is a whole other chapter of the adoption story that is very needed because a lot of times siblings are taken apart in adoption situations or foster situations. And so we pray that the Lord will allow us to be a blessing to a family and keep their children together. And so my heart on that is just that I want to be willing to do whatever it is that the Lord calls us to and whatever our child’s decisions that he makes in his life. Well, I pray that adoption comes up in his mind very infrequently. I pray that the only time he thinks about it, he thinks about it as a blessing and not like, oh, I’m the adopted child. I mean, that’s never come up. And I get a little grouchy in my heart when I think about somebody who would talk about an adopted child that way, because why single them out that way? Even if they had some kind of disability, it would almost feel like the same as picking on them because they have a disability or maybe because they’re super intelligent, like, oh, well, you’re so smart, it’s like you don’t want to point somebody out because they’re adopted. I mean, has gotten waiters at restaurants being like, oh, you’re adopted, so am I. And we’re kind of looking at them like, oh, thanks. We don’t really get that. But I do think it’s beautiful when other people who are adopted notice the skin color and they’re like, oh, well, you obviously are adopted. But I don’t want that to be the first thing. That people think of when they think of him because he is the most sweet kid in my heart. And I’m thinking, well, he’s got a thousand other things that you could choose to talk about, but OK, let’s talk about that. And that is an opportunity to give God the glory for how beautiful this situation.

And I wish I had time to tell you of all the twists and turns in his story, just like every child has such a beautiful tale of their story. And so in my heart I just pray that the Lord allows us to be a blessing to more children and have more children be a blessing to us. And I encourage and I hope we can in the future support foster parents, support families that are looking to adopt in whatever way we can. And so I encourage your listeners to, if their Lord brings someone their way or they are led to look into their area’s foster situation or supporting foster families in their situation in their area, to go ahead and look into it and ask the Lord, what do you want me to do? It’s all about obedience. It’s all about following the Lord’s leading. And if the Lord’s calling you to something, he will enable you to do it. And there’s nothing special about Pete and I that we are able to do this. It’s only because we are called and the Lord supported us through it. And we have a loving family situation that absorbed him into our family, like he was born here and he is everybody agreed when they met him the very first time that he fit perfectly into our situation. And I think that is the most beautiful story that any child could have. I mean, I remember in school when I met one of my friends was adopted and I said, my parents were stuck with me. Your parents chose you. And he was so insecure and I was always so confused of why he could possibly be insecure. I’m like, Your parents chose you. They loved you from the minute that you join their family. And my parents were just well, they didn’t quite have a choice. But I think that’s the beautiful thing in adoption is that we are given the gift of a child and the child is given the gift of a family. But honestly, I personally think the parents are the bigger benefactors because you get that child and if you love on them and you show them Christ, then guess what? I don’t see how they wouldn’t fall in love with Jesus as well. I mean, it would be a big surprise to me if they just hated everything to do with Jesus if they saw him and you and it was a true reflection of who he was.

Erin, thank you so much for joining us on the Removal Barriers podcast.

Hey, thanks so much for listening to the Removing Barriers podcast. Did you know that you could find us on Twitter, gab parlor, facebook and Reddit. Go to Removingbarriers.net/contact and like and follow us on social media. Removing Barriers, a clear view of the Cross.

Thank you for listening. To get a hold of us to support this podcast or to learn more about removing barriers, go to Removingbarriers.net. This has been the removing barriers. Podcast. We attempted to remove barriers so that we all can have a clear view of the cross.